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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.15 09:13:00 -
[1]
Fine. I watched the awesome episode of evetv yesterday before i had my first cup of coffee. So now i want to see it again. I think its OK to charge a fee for it. But why do i have to pay the same price over again, to watch something i already bought?
Seems either very poorly thoughout idea(Im sorry to say) to use jalipo, or just sheer greed.
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Jo0n
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Posted - 2007.07.15 10:01:00 -
[2]
Signed,
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:15:00 -
[3]
yeah why is it on demand or download?
isn't there a way to make it on on-demand and rewatchable? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:36:00 -
[4]
Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;) --------------------------------- |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.15 19:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/07/2007 19:07:46
Originally by: The Provisioner Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;)
Its already shared on half a dozen file sharing and Youtube-like sites... its unbelievably easy to capture the stream.
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Groox
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.15 21:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
Well if they cant make it financially sucessful thanks to online free sharing we may not able to see it even 1 time for $$$. Thats why it justifies current distribution method.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/07/2007 19:07:46
Originally by: The Provisioner Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;)
*snip* - Inappropriate for this forum - Serathu ([email protected])
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
And as a fundamental statement of information theory, if you can decrypt it (i.e., watch it) once, you can decrypt it again. All local-play-media DRM is inherently doomed for this reason; you can make it harder and harder to ***** (a la the XBox, which uses hardware to assist its DRM), but you cannot prevent the truly motivated from taking what they want.
As to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing? A bit harder to say, perhaps. Information tends to want to be free (gratuit and libre), but if freedom (gratuit) of information prevents the information from getting produced in the first place, that is, without question, a net loss. Discuss amongst yourselves; I expect a position paper, five pages or more, single-spaced, on my desk by 8:30 next Monday morning.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.16 22:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Templer Relleg to watch something i already bought?
You thought you bought it? Sorry.
Originally by: Groox
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
Well if they cant make it financially sucessful thanks to online free sharing we may not able to see it even 1 time for $$$. Thats why it justifies current distribution method.
DRM only hurts legitimate consumers. This distribution mechanism simply means that those who do pay for it get screwed. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
MonwrathDisortium
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 06:35:00 -
[9]
FRAPS it :)
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:34:00 -
[10]
It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Snorbuckle
Amarr GalSpan Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Pay per view makes sense for entertainment. Pay per view for something that has useful gaming tips that you may wish to refer back to later is a different matter.
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lemon twist
Gallente The Knights of Ni
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Posted - 2007.07.18 11:42:00 -
[14]
I guess the reason why it has to be done like this is because many people would just then share the files and ccp would make no money..
i'm sure if ccp knew people would not do this then things could be different but in this age of piracy... well you know the rest..
Anyone seen the latest harry potter on pirate yet? i bet you have ;p
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Ynno
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Posted - 2007.07.18 11:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ynno on 18/07/2007 11:55:18
Originally by: lemon twist I guess the reason why it has to be done like this is because many people would just then share the files and ccp would make no money..
i'm sure if ccp knew people would not do this then things could be different but in this age of piracy... well you know the rest..
Anyone seen the latest harry potter on pirate yet? i bet you have ;p
People can share the file anyway, I personally have copies of all the episodes on my local computer but I don't think I can say how I did that as I suspect that's why Dark Shikari's post got snipped. I haven't shared them or put them online, but there would be nothing stopping me from doing so. If just a few people figure it out (and it's not hard) you can guarantee one of them will put it on bittorrent or something. The only people this really hurts are those who don't know how to get a local copy themsleves and don't feel right about using P2P networks to get it.
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Lore Isander
Caldari Paisti
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Yes, it is.
--- How do I shot web? |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2007 13:26:37
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Pay Per View is reasonable when you're paying for the showing of something. That is, when you're paying primarily for the bandwidth, or you're paying primarily for copyright royalties that are per-showing, such as is the case for a Pay Per View movie.
NEITHER OF THESE IS THE CASE IN THE CAES OF EVETV. Therefore, pay per view here is nothing more than extortion of the playerbase.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:55:00 -
[18]
Eve-TV make these episodes. They have every right to determine how it will be paid for, and they have initially gone for the pay-per-view model. You have every right not to view it a second time. You DO NOT have the right to watch it again for free unless the copyright owners (Eve_TV) give you that right. (which they may be decide at a future point?) --------------------------------- |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Why not? Thats a pretty bold statement. Justify it. --------
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Why not? Thats a pretty bold statement. Justify it.
I justified my statement to the same degree that the post I replied to was justified, and that was intentional.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Wrangler,
i beg to differ!
EveTV does not fit into pay-per-view. Especially not since its not possible to go to different sections(I voiced my concern about this before, and was told it was possible, but seems not *sigh*) of the whole thing. I wanna watch evetv. But i dont wanna pay to watch the new player experience part. Its that simple.
EveTV brings ships profiles which one might wanna go to the backarchieve and find their new ship, they wanna get dirty with. While it might not have been of interest when they wateched it first, they might wanna go and really listen to what they say. You cant memorize everything, right?
Pay per view is bad in most cases, where its NOT live.
You made a bold statement wrangler, justify it. Else i must say that this is worse than the crime and punishment forum.
Im still not happy with evetv. We have voiced our concern with the whole pay-per-view thing since the last alliance tournament, and as zap stated on the latest warp drive active, the jalipo solution was done because they were lazy.
But please, Wrangler. I love to see gold marks all over the forum. But for love of god, justify your opinion.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:18:00 -
[22]
As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente C R Y O FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:21:00 -
[23]
I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live... |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente C R Y O FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 18/07/2007 15:33:12
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
I do agree with that, however what about the idea of an eve tv account in which you pay for whole particular episode in one payment then they are tied to your account in which you can log in and rewatch them(by streaming them online) whenever you want.
That would get rid of the idea of needing a downloadable version and prevent piracy(as much as you can prevent it) while also allowing the people who have already payed the ability to rewatch it when the please.
update* okay i'v just realised that people could then just share accounts my bad
Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live... |
Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
I do agree with that, however what about the idea of an eve tv account in which you pay for whole particular episode in one payment then they are tied to your account in which you can log in and rewatch them(by streaming them online) whenever you want.
That would get rid of the idea of needing a downloadable version and prevent piracy(as much as you can prevent it) while also allowing the people who have already payed the ability to rewatch it when the please.
The piracy issue is real right now. And its not like its easier to remove DRM from a file, rather than ripping Jalipo.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:28:04
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
You havent understood what i said.
I know they are looking into other ways. But they have, as i feel it, ignoring us for + year. They use jalipo because they are lazy. And we have voiced our concern over this for a long time.
I dont mind it costing money. The price is low. But thats not the argument. The argument is that its pay-per-view.
I know what the problem is, I don't see how making it downloadable would solve it though. You'd just make it even easier to get a non paid copy of it.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:40:39
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:28:04
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
You havent understood what i said.
I know they are looking into other ways. But they have, as i feel it, ignoring us for + year. They use jalipo because they are lazy. And we have voiced our concern over this for a long time.
I dont mind it costing money. The price is low. But thats not the argument. The argument is that its pay-per-view.
I know what the problem is, I don't see how making it downloadable would solve it though. You'd just make it even easier to get a non paid copy of it.
Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Templer Relleg Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
What is DRM?
I'm not saying jalipo rox, I'm saying you have to pay for EVE TV btw, and that's a statement I stick by, but if there's a better way (like whatever DRM is) then why not?
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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