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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.15 09:13:00 -
[1]
Fine. I watched the awesome episode of evetv yesterday before i had my first cup of coffee. So now i want to see it again. I think its OK to charge a fee for it. But why do i have to pay the same price over again, to watch something i already bought?
Seems either very poorly thoughout idea(Im sorry to say) to use jalipo, or just sheer greed.
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Jo0n
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Posted - 2007.07.15 10:01:00 -
[2]
Signed,
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:15:00 -
[3]
yeah why is it on demand or download?
isn't there a way to make it on on-demand and rewatchable? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.15 16:36:00 -
[4]
Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;) --------------------------------- |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.15 19:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/07/2007 19:07:46
Originally by: The Provisioner Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;)
Its already shared on half a dozen file sharing and Youtube-like sites... its unbelievably easy to capture the stream.
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Groox
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.15 21:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
Well if they cant make it financially sucessful thanks to online free sharing we may not able to see it even 1 time for $$$. Thats why it justifies current distribution method.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.16 16:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/07/2007 19:07:46
Originally by: The Provisioner Technically, it must be relatively simple to pass all the data to a cache, so that a user can rewatch the stream locally. The trick, I think, is making the content protected at the same time so that people dont just extract it and share it online with non-payers. There has to be a balance. Im sure the next step is to provide the ability to rewatch from cache, if we're vocal enough ;)
*snip* - Inappropriate for this forum - Serathu ([email protected])
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
And as a fundamental statement of information theory, if you can decrypt it (i.e., watch it) once, you can decrypt it again. All local-play-media DRM is inherently doomed for this reason; you can make it harder and harder to ***** (a la the XBox, which uses hardware to assist its DRM), but you cannot prevent the truly motivated from taking what they want.
As to whether that's a good thing or a bad thing? A bit harder to say, perhaps. Information tends to want to be free (gratuit and libre), but if freedom (gratuit) of information prevents the information from getting produced in the first place, that is, without question, a net loss. Discuss amongst yourselves; I expect a position paper, five pages or more, single-spaced, on my desk by 8:30 next Monday morning.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.16 22:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Templer Relleg to watch something i already bought?
You thought you bought it? Sorry.
Originally by: Groox
Originally by: Dark Shikari
"Stopping people from copying it" is not a justification for screwing customers by charging for reviewing an episode.
Well if they cant make it financially sucessful thanks to online free sharing we may not able to see it even 1 time for $$$. Thats why it justifies current distribution method.
DRM only hurts legitimate consumers. This distribution mechanism simply means that those who do pay for it get screwed. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
MonwrathDisortium
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 06:35:00 -
[9]
FRAPS it :)
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:34:00 -
[10]
It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Snorbuckle
Amarr GalSpan Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.18 10:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Pay per view makes sense for entertainment. Pay per view for something that has useful gaming tips that you may wish to refer back to later is a different matter.
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lemon twist
Gallente The Knights of Ni
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Posted - 2007.07.18 11:42:00 -
[14]
I guess the reason why it has to be done like this is because many people would just then share the files and ccp would make no money..
i'm sure if ccp knew people would not do this then things could be different but in this age of piracy... well you know the rest..
Anyone seen the latest harry potter on pirate yet? i bet you have ;p
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Ynno
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Posted - 2007.07.18 11:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ynno on 18/07/2007 11:55:18
Originally by: lemon twist I guess the reason why it has to be done like this is because many people would just then share the files and ccp would make no money..
i'm sure if ccp knew people would not do this then things could be different but in this age of piracy... well you know the rest..
Anyone seen the latest harry potter on pirate yet? i bet you have ;p
People can share the file anyway, I personally have copies of all the episodes on my local computer but I don't think I can say how I did that as I suspect that's why Dark Shikari's post got snipped. I haven't shared them or put them online, but there would be nothing stopping me from doing so. If just a few people figure it out (and it's not hard) you can guarantee one of them will put it on bittorrent or something. The only people this really hurts are those who don't know how to get a local copy themsleves and don't feel right about using P2P networks to get it.
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Lore Isander
Caldari Paisti
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Posted - 2007.07.18 12:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Yes, it is.
--- How do I shot web? |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 18/07/2007 13:26:37
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Pay Per View is reasonable when you're paying for the showing of something. That is, when you're paying primarily for the bandwidth, or you're paying primarily for copyright royalties that are per-showing, such as is the case for a Pay Per View movie.
NEITHER OF THESE IS THE CASE IN THE CAES OF EVETV. Therefore, pay per view here is nothing more than extortion of the playerbase.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:55:00 -
[18]
Eve-TV make these episodes. They have every right to determine how it will be paid for, and they have initially gone for the pay-per-view model. You have every right not to view it a second time. You DO NOT have the right to watch it again for free unless the copyright owners (Eve_TV) give you that right. (which they may be decide at a future point?) --------------------------------- |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Why not? Thats a pretty bold statement. Justify it. --------
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Why not? Thats a pretty bold statement. Justify it.
I justified my statement to the same degree that the post I replied to was justified, and that was intentional.
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
And Pay Per View is absolutely ridiculous for something like this.
No it's not.
Wrangler,
i beg to differ!
EveTV does not fit into pay-per-view. Especially not since its not possible to go to different sections(I voiced my concern about this before, and was told it was possible, but seems not *sigh*) of the whole thing. I wanna watch evetv. But i dont wanna pay to watch the new player experience part. Its that simple.
EveTV brings ships profiles which one might wanna go to the backarchieve and find their new ship, they wanna get dirty with. While it might not have been of interest when they wateched it first, they might wanna go and really listen to what they say. You cant memorize everything, right?
Pay per view is bad in most cases, where its NOT live.
You made a bold statement wrangler, justify it. Else i must say that this is worse than the crime and punishment forum.
Im still not happy with evetv. We have voiced our concern with the whole pay-per-view thing since the last alliance tournament, and as zap stated on the latest warp drive active, the jalipo solution was done because they were lazy.
But please, Wrangler. I love to see gold marks all over the forum. But for love of god, justify your opinion.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:18:00 -
[22]
As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente C R Y O FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:21:00 -
[23]
I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live... |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente C R Y O FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 18/07/2007 15:33:12
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
I do agree with that, however what about the idea of an eve tv account in which you pay for whole particular episode in one payment then they are tied to your account in which you can log in and rewatch them(by streaming them online) whenever you want.
That would get rid of the idea of needing a downloadable version and prevent piracy(as much as you can prevent it) while also allowing the people who have already payed the ability to rewatch it when the please.
update* okay i'v just realised that people could then just share accounts my bad
Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live... |
Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
I do agree with that, however what about the idea of an eve tv account in which you pay for whole particular episode in one payment then they are tied to your account in which you can log in and rewatch them(by streaming them online) whenever you want.
That would get rid of the idea of needing a downloadable version and prevent piracy(as much as you can prevent it) while also allowing the people who have already payed the ability to rewatch it when the please.
The piracy issue is real right now. And its not like its easier to remove DRM from a file, rather than ripping Jalipo.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:28:04
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
You havent understood what i said.
I know they are looking into other ways. But they have, as i feel it, ignoring us for + year. They use jalipo because they are lazy. And we have voiced our concern over this for a long time.
I dont mind it costing money. The price is low. But thats not the argument. The argument is that its pay-per-view.
I know what the problem is, I don't see how making it downloadable would solve it though. You'd just make it even easier to get a non paid copy of it.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:40:39
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/07/2007 15:28:04
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
But you realise that people already share evetv episodes, right? They arent all that hard to get your hands on.
Pay-per-view will kill it even faster.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
You havent understood what i said.
I know they are looking into other ways. But they have, as i feel it, ignoring us for + year. They use jalipo because they are lazy. And we have voiced our concern over this for a long time.
I dont mind it costing money. The price is low. But thats not the argument. The argument is that its pay-per-view.
I know what the problem is, I don't see how making it downloadable would solve it though. You'd just make it even easier to get a non paid copy of it.
Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Templer Relleg Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
What is DRM?
I'm not saying jalipo rox, I'm saying you have to pay for EVE TV btw, and that's a statement I stick by, but if there's a better way (like whatever DRM is) then why not?
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Templer Relleg Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
What is DRM?
I'm not saying jalipo rox, I'm saying you have to pay for EVE TV btw, and that's a statement I stick by, but if there's a better way (like whatever DRM is) then why not?
DRM is Digital Rights Management, which is done by microsoft. This is quite common if you buy music over the internet
And im not arguing that we shouldnt pay for evetv. Thats another post. If you look at the topic name, you will notice that im angry that i have to pay twice, if i wanna watch again.
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Templer Relleg
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 15:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Patch86 I'm sure you guys are far better informed about these things than I am- I find it difficult to believe that you honestly are stuck with "Jalipo or nothing at all"...
Actually, in the warpdrive active podcast they had an interview with Zapa. He pretty much stated that they went with Jalipo because they were lazy.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 16:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Patch86 I'm sure you guys are far better informed about these things than I am- I find it difficult to believe that you honestly are stuck with "Jalipo or nothing at all"...
I'm sure they're looking into those suggestions then.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 19:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Templer Relleg Downloadable is EXACTLY the fix. 1. We dont have to use Jalipo, which is awful. I have argued against Jalipo for + year. It embeddes into your internet browser, which is awful, awful from the perspective of a programmer. 2. We can watch it on our mobile and mp3 player 3. We dont have to pay for the same thing several times, if we wanna watch it twice.
And no. Its easier to rip Jalipo rather than removing DRM
Again you manage to make rather bold statements Wrangler. Please prove your points.
What is DRM?
I'm not saying jalipo rox, I'm saying you have to pay for EVE TV btw, and that's a statement I stick by, but if there's a better way (like whatever DRM is) then why not?
DRM is any method of restricting users from copying content... there are tons of methods, from what Apple uses in iTunes to what Microsoft offers and the various sorts of copy-protection, like CSS in DVDs and so forth.
Its pretty easy to break, but ripping Jalipo is even easier
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.07.18 19:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dark Shikari DRM is any method of restricting users from copying content... there are tons of methods, from what Apple uses in iTunes to what Microsoft offers and the various sorts of copy-protection, like CSS in DVDs and so forth.
Its pretty easy to break, but ripping Jalipo is even easier
Is there something that's not easy to break?
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.07.18 20:43:00 -
[36]
My 2 cents, nothing to see here...
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Renting a movie isn't pay per view. I can watch the movie from 1 to N times. *Where N is the total rental time minus travel time to and from the rental shop, divided by the total length of the movie The cinema is pay-per-view. That's ok because the screen won't fit in my house. They own the screen, they hire the guy to make the projector project, pay the power bills etc, so they are right to charge me every time. EVETV being pay-per-view is only justified if the recurring charge pays for the bandwidth. Stick it on rapidshare and bandwidth isn't a problem any more.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
Your faith that, given a simple choice between paying for it and 'stealing' it, everyone will choose to 'steal' it is heartwarming.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I feel that the payment method for EveTV is wrong, but im more concerned that it will lead to the failure of evetv in general.
Even the possiblity of paying slightly more for a downloadable REWATCHABLE version on something like itunes would be far superior.
The cost doesnt concern me, im just worried that it will cause the death of EVEtv
I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
As has been pointed out, it is already easily obtainable elsewhere, and in a superior container than the paid version. The question is, are the people who are paying for it paying for it because they want to support it, or because it is easier to pay than to go to the trouble of 'stealing' it?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari DRM is any method of restricting users from copying content... there are tons of methods, from what Apple uses in iTunes to what Microsoft offers and the various sorts of copy-protection, like CSS in DVDs and so forth.
Its pretty easy to break, but ripping Jalipo is even easier
Is there something that's not easy to break?
Simple answer, no. -
I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.18 22:14:00 -
[37]
which is why you make special things for people that pay. some reason for paying other than the normal stream.
also look at glactic civ II. that game had no protection at all, and people said it was promoting piracy, but you know whatr, they had 3 months of being the top selling PC game. So no protection means more peope buying that wopuld actuly give you money and more pirates. But overall, more people paying. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.19 04:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Dark Shikari DRM is any method of restricting users from copying content... there are tons of methods, from what Apple uses in iTunes to what Microsoft offers and the various sorts of copy-protection, like CSS in DVDs and so forth.
Its pretty easy to break, but ripping Jalipo is even easier
Is there something that's not easy to break?
By definition such a thing is completely impossible, no matter how you do it: if the viewer can see it on their screen they can record it.
Now the thing is, what DRM does is prevent the average user from ripping it. And with Jalipo that's true: even though its really really easy, most people probably can't be bothered.
Rules of DRM:
1. The pirates will always be able to break it. 2. The people who want to pirate the video will always be able to find copies on the internet because of Rule 1. 3. DRM restricts consumers. If it restricts them in a way they don't like, they won't buy your product.
Jalipo, in a sense, is a form of DRM. The disadvantage is that it very strongly restricts consumers without providing adequate copy protection. Now, the thing is, many many people want to watch the EVETV episodes on their iPhones/PSPs/whatever: the EVE player population is a pretty geeky community and they want that. Most DRM, including Jalipo, prevents that unless the watcher goes to the trouble of breaking the DRM.
The problem with this is you can't effectively DRM a copy while allowing format-shifting.
Now here's an idea:
1. Watermark each version of the video with a hidden watermark. There are easy ways to do this. 2. Penalize people whose versions are found uploaded on piracy sites or video sites. 3. Don't DRM the download at all.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.19 15:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I don't think the problem is in providing a downloadable, rewatchable version, I think the problem is that if they did it would just be uploaded and people could get it for free. I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
Well, try it with a single episode. For the next episode, include a link to iTunes to download the show, for instance. If your total number of views (Jalipo + iTunes) is down significantly, then it's a problem, and we can look at other solutions. My strong suspicion is that it would go up, as iTunes accessibility would allow more people to get in on the act. And if everything falls down, and the world is ending, and subscription revenue = nil for that episode, well, you've only lost one episode, and you can quiet down everyone whining in here by pointing out that you tried it, and it didn't work.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Rules of DRM:
1. The pirates will always be able to break it. 2. The people who want to pirate the video will always be able to find copies on the internet because of Rule 1. 3. DRM restricts consumers. If it restricts them in a way they don't like, they won't buy your product.
Jalipo, in a sense, is a form of DRM. The disadvantage is that it very strongly restricts consumers without providing adequate copy protection. Now, the thing is, many many people want to watch the EVETV episodes on their iPhones/PSPs/whatever: the EVE player population is a pretty geeky community and they want that. Most DRM, including Jalipo, prevents that unless the watcher goes to the trouble of breaking the DRM.
The problem with this is you can't effectively DRM a copy while allowing format-shifting.
Now here's an idea:
1. Watermark each version of the video with a hidden watermark. There are easy ways to do this. 2. Penalize people whose versions are found uploaded on piracy sites or video sites. 3. Don't DRM the download at all.
Wrangler listen to the man, with all repect he clearly knows and understands far more about the issue than anyone at ccp or affiliated with eve-tv. I can say that with confidence because we're still using jalipo and because of your replies. D'you know how long it took before the last eve-tv was availble for pirates/ reluctant viewers to download- under 5 minutes. Except that pirated copy could be viewed anywhere, at any time at the 1000kb/s level with no buffering? In ther words the pirates were providing a superior product to the one your charging for from the same source. I can't spell it out any clearer.
The use of jalipo is HURTING your sales of eve-tv and HURTINgG the viability and image of eve-tv. Rather than simply repliing with "i'm sure its being looked into", and "we're considering all avilible distribution options" ; you need to actually do something, your shooting yourself in the foot here and it hurts those of use who are trying to be fans.. Me or DS can provide you with numerous case studies and reaserch that will confrm what we're saying if your still unsure. But as it stands your hurting your legitimate consumers, and giving pirates a superior product than your deliveing. For any buisness thats a bad move.
In summary: more people would pay more money if you implemented our suggestions, can't be any plainer than that
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.19 19:35:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/07/2007 19:35:29
Originally by: Takahashi Arran
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Rules of DRM:
1. The pirates will always be able to break it. 2. The people who want to pirate the video will always be able to find copies on the internet because of Rule 1. 3. DRM restricts consumers. If it restricts them in a way they don't like, they won't buy your product.
Jalipo, in a sense, is a form of DRM. The disadvantage is that it very strongly restricts consumers without providing adequate copy protection. Now, the thing is, many many people want to watch the EVETV episodes on their iPhones/PSPs/whatever: the EVE player population is a pretty geeky community and they want that. Most DRM, including Jalipo, prevents that unless the watcher goes to the trouble of breaking the DRM.
The problem with this is you can't effectively DRM a copy while allowing format-shifting.
Now here's an idea:
1. Watermark each version of the video with a hidden watermark. There are easy ways to do this. 2. Penalize people whose versions are found uploaded on piracy sites or video sites. 3. Don't DRM the download at all.
Wrangler listen to the man, with all repect he clearly knows and understands far more about the issue than anyone at ccp or affiliated with eve-tv. I can say that with confidence because we're still using jalipo and because of your replies. D'you know how long it took before the last eve-tv was availble for pirates/ reluctant viewers to download- under 5 minutes. Except that pirated copy could be viewed anywhere, at any time at the 1000kb/s level with no buffering? In ther words the pirates were providing a superior product to the one your charging for from the same source. I can't spell it out any clearer.
That is the worst thing that can happen to a product and one of the most dangerous: when the counterfeit is better than the original. It quite often spells death to the original, or at least strongly hurts sales.
One common example are pirated DVDs that:
a) Have complex copy protection schemes removed (which often break many older DVD players, including the Xbox) b) Have the mandatory legal/advertising clips removed
These are often superior to the original product because they eliminate annoyances associated with the original. Pirated versions of EVETV streams would have the same property; unlike pirated copies of most media, they're actually superior to the original because they have none of the hassles of the original. Another common example of this phenomenon is games with StarForce protection.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Jolnas Arbiter
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 20/07/2007 11:16:16 Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 20/07/2007 11:05:48
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/07/2007 19:35:29
Originally by: Takahashi Arran
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Rules of DRM:
1. The pirates will always be able to break it. 2. The people who want to pirate the video will always be able to find copies on the internet because of Rule 1. 3. DRM restricts consumers. If it restricts them in a way they don't like, they won't buy your product.
Jalipo, in a sense, is a form of DRM. The disadvantage is that it very strongly restricts consumers without providing adequate copy protection. Now, the thing is, many many people want to watch the EVETV episodes on their iPhones/PSPs/whatever: the EVE player population is a pretty geeky community and they want that. Most DRM, including Jalipo, prevents that unless the watcher goes to the trouble of breaking the DRM.
The problem with this is you can't effectively DRM a copy while allowing format-shifting.
Now here's an idea:
1. Watermark each version of the video with a hidden watermark. There are easy ways to do this. 2. Penalize people whose versions are found uploaded on piracy sites or video sites. 3. Don't DRM the download at all.
Wrangler listen to the man, with all repect he clearly knows and understands far more about the issue than anyone at ccp or affiliated with eve-tv. I can say that with confidence because we're still using jalipo and because of your replies. D'you know how long it took before the last eve-tv was availble for pirates/ reluctant viewers to download- under 5 minutes. Except that pirated copy could be viewed anywhere, at any time at the 1000kb/s level with no buffering? In ther words the pirates were providing a superior product to the one your charging for from the same source. I can't spell it out any clearer.
That is the worst thing that can happen to a product and one of the most dangerous: when the counterfeit is better than the original. It quite often spells death to the original, or at least strongly hurts sales.
One common example are pirated DVDs that:
a) Have complex copy protection schemes removed (which often break many older DVD players, including the Xbox) b) Have the mandatory legal/advertising clips removed
These are often superior to the original product because they eliminate annoyances associated with the original. Pirated versions of EVETV streams would have the same property; unlike pirated copies of most media, they're actually superior to the original because they have none of the hassles of the original. Another common example of this phenomenon is games with StarForce protection.
Speaking of which I think I'm gonna look up some guides on DVD editing, ripping and copying just to remove those annoying THE PIRATES ARE OUT TO GET YOU YOU MIGHT BE FUNDING ORGANISED CRIME OMG/animated menus where you can't press anything for 20 seconds/corp logos. Seriously this is gonna cost me 10 bucks in DVDs alone(which I might have spent on the original product had I known that it had nice interface). Failed business model. I think CCP needs to use some common sense here.
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Xtreem
Gallente Golden Orb Technology inc
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:41:00 -
[43]
just like to add a few things iv picked up on this topic.
on the pay per view iv watched, i paid a fee and then i could watch the movie as many times as i liked for the day.
i timed myself, and it took me 9 minutes to find a high res good speed free stream of this.
I can on my own think of at least 3 ways of paying for this once, recording and sharing this file.
the player is plain poor, unfortunatly.
just wanted to keep it simple, i think DS is prety much ownign this thread already however.
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Joaquima
Caldari White Star Corporation Gemini Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:44:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Joaquima on 20/07/2007 11:44:05 I strongly support the idea of making EVE TV episodes downloadable - even if single episode would cost 2-3 times what curent Jalipo 1000k stream costs. Reason for this is simple - BUFFERING. Even on strong connections having to endure loading times, and errors (which happen to me as well as my friends) is painful and hurts the overall quality of the product that EVE TV is. I believe that people will be willing to pay for downloadable episodes for two reasons. a) they want to get quality product b) EVE has quite dedicated fanbase and many of those players will probably be willing to pay for download instead of downloading it from pirate sources simply because they will want to support EVE Tv.
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Vort X
EON Order Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Vort X on 20/07/2007 11:52:28
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
I'm not saying jalipo rox, I'm saying you have to pay for EVE TV btw, and that's a statement I stick by, but if there's a better way (like whatever DRM is) then why not?
How about if CCP pays for it at first, then the increased EvE subscibers will pay you back twice of your investment?
It could work great as an EvE Online advertisement I guess. Place an integrated player on the main eveonline page, it would certainly boost the first impressions of the visitor.
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Dark Guardian
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:22:00 -
[46]
Count me as someone else who doesn't particularly like restricted play files. $2 to watch only once is a bit much, and this seems very similar to the EON magazine price of "way more than most other magazines". Maybe I'm just not used to the new inflation.
I realize you have to recover the costs somehow, but are you sure it's the best choice to keep recovering extra costs for useful features by charging the player base more? One of the reasons I like Eve is the free expansions.
I've never watched the new EveTV, aside from the first Alliance Tournament when Jalipo was first used for a major EVE event. Never tried to find a version that didn't require buffering.
Quote: something that's hard to *****
Certain locked cell phones in the US.
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Krysta Gemme
Church of Salvation
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Posted - 2007.07.21 08:09:00 -
[47]
LoL I thought it was bad that you had to pay for the video. Though I said to hell with it and was going to give it a shot.
Pay for a STREAMING video though? I can't even download it?
Good luck Eve TV., there has never been an online product as greedy as yours. :/ Honestly... could you IMAGINE if Napster or iTunes charged you money to STREAM a song and not download it for risk of 'distribution'?
Yeah, big successes they would be if that was all you could do. Seriously, good luck with this little program. Least we get to keep our magazines, but you guys are years behind the power curve for the internet media wave.
Worse yet is your attitude to the suggestions of the people that, AWKWARDLY, are trying to find a way to BUY your product! They are actually communicating with you to desperately find a logical method to purchase your item. In most consumer worlds, a customer doesn't work in order to buy something. He doesn't go to the counter and plead for something to be easier to buy, he just walks away.
It's as if you would prefer people not care for your business. I'm sorry, but I know of no rational mind that would purchase a STREAMING product on the internet. You can compare it to pay-per-view, but even that can be TIVO'd, or even taped on cassette back in the day.
What you're doing is only possible by the absolute irrational or the frivolous. This isn't about free distribution, this is about getting what you pay for. Nevermind the charging of video for customers that are already paying for one of the most expensive MMO's on the market. ------
"Born Amarr. Raised Matari. Separated by hatred. Together by fate." |
NereSky
Gallente Domination. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.21 11:53:00 -
[48]
Firstly i like to re-iterate i enjoy watching Eve-tv my 1 and only gripe is indirectly connected with the op.
if you are half way through and get interupted and have to quit out of it for what-ever reason , u have to rewatch the first half and pay for it again just so u can finish the whole show 0.o
which i believe u should have a 'continue viewing' option from where u left off.
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Bombaman
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.21 12:15:00 -
[49]
or just register a new email address every week and use your 200 free J-Credits then delete the email address
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Paigan
Amarr Thirdwave
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Posted - 2007.07.21 12:46:00 -
[50]
The funny thing is: By requiring a fee EVERY TIME, customers are almost FORCED to rip the video.
Whatever solution there may be, one thing remains: As someone already stated before: whatever is on your screen can be ripped anyway.
So what to do to earn the money it costs? In my opinion, the only solution to cover the cost that works would be some kind of "collective/solidary payment". Meaning for example CCP pays it (and thus every eve players pays it automatically) and offers it as a free service so that every eve player CAN watch it (if he does or not is another question, but the service is provided anyway).
Like an additional corporation service for the customers.
The only question that remains would be: Do the majority of players want such a service and would they be willing to pay additional money (i don't know... 0.50 euro?) per month?
My answer would be 'no'. But that's only one voice, of course.
-- This game is still in beta stage |
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Xtreem
Gallente Scientific Creative Underworld Mafia
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:36:00 -
[51]
although it sounds REALLY mean when things like this are brought out, i half think to myself i hope it fails just so i can point and say, told ya soo. mean huh :(
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baaaaal
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Posted - 2007.07.24 04:40:00 -
[52]
Quote: It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
when i use payper view with my cable to company to buy a film from there interactive service i can watch that film as many times as i like within a 24 hour period, why not let people buy the evetv episodes for 24hours like that to?
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Argyle Jones
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:01:00 -
[53]
How about a mixture of options here.
CCP is concerned that releasing downloadable video without DRM will result in too much piracy. The consumers want to be able to review their purchased product more than once, and in decent quality.
Solution: 1) Create a streamed version of EVE-TV that is subscription based. You pay the subscription and can stream as many times as you like, until the subscription expires. 2) After a sufficiently long period of time, say 1 month (then the content is old news already), release a downloadable version for subscribers.
Releasing the downloadable version after 1 month will have the benefit that some users might stick to the subscription so they can legally download the episode in higher quality than what a stream would offer.
Oh, and don't be so sure everybody pirates. You have a community full of people who pay two, three and often more subscription fees to play with several characters in your game. Money is rarely the issue (although we don't like blatant greed either), but when buying something you'd like to know that it's actually now ... yours.
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:24:00 -
[54]
You do realise that it's really, really easy to bypass the fee?
All it requires is a new e-mail account every time you watch... ---
Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.07.26 04:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Argyle Jones How about a mixture of options here.
CCP is concerned that releasing downloadable video without DRM will result in too much piracy. The consumers want to be able to review their purchased product more than once, and in decent quality.
Solution: 1) Create a streamed version of EVE-TV that is subscription based. You pay the subscription and can stream as many times as you like, until the subscription expires. 2) After a sufficiently long period of time, say 1 month (then the content is old news already), release a downloadable version for subscribers.
Releasing the downloadable version after 1 month will have the benefit that some users might stick to the subscription so they can legally download the episode in higher quality than what a stream would offer.
Oh, and don't be so sure everybody pirates. You have a community full of people who pay two, three and often more subscription fees to play with several characters in your game. Money is rarely the issue (although we don't like blatant greed either), but when buying something you'd like to know that it's actually now ... yours.
QFT.
Although, like everybody else says though, it's going to get pirated. The question is who you want to pirate it. People who are dead-set on it and are going to do it regardless? Or those people and unsatisfied customers?
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.26 06:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 26/07/2007 06:11:52 EVE is a game EVE-TV is information, In the digital world, information wants to be free. So it is.
Do what the rest of the world does, adapt to that (eg. commercials), or face the iron clad fist smack back to reality.
If the intent was to stop the redistribution of the shows, and so that was made available to non-paying customers. Then I am sorry to say, you already failed. =/
- Recruitment open again-
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.26 06:50:00 -
[57]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/07/2007 06:50:17
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 26/07/2007 06:11:52 EVE is a game EVE-TV is information, In the digital world, information wants to be free. So it is.
Do what the rest of the world does, adapt to that (eg. commercials), or face the iron clad fist smack back to reality.
If the intent was to stop the redistribution of the shows, and so that was made available to non-paying customers. Then I am sorry to say, you already failed. =/
yeah torrents everywhere. the reason why? you pushed people into a corner. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
EliteSlave
Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord
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Posted - 2007.07.27 18:26:00 -
[58]
Edited by: EliteSlave on 27/07/2007 18:28:17
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L I don't know if the current way will kill EVE TV, but I know that having a downloadable version that can be spread would kill it.
Its already happening, Jalipo can be easily downloaded thanks to Mozilla and using a flash based downloader. So why not jus offer it as a free service since we already pay for things like, EVE, and Voice... oh and BTW, the EVE Store doesnt work either | | Dev's if your Ugly and you know it.. and Proud of it... Sign Below ;) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.28 08:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: EliteSlave Its already happening, Jalipo can be easily downloaded thanks to Mozilla and using a flash based downloader.
... WHAT!?
So wait, Jalipo is no different from Youtube and Stage6 in terms of security?!?!
Well that answers your question CCP: Jalipo is completely and utterly incompetent and has zero content security whatsoever.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.28 11:49:00 -
[60]
It is actually more secure. There is a reference to a site in the embed link, and the video doesn't play without that reference being checked (It's a secure http site within jalipo.), and the JPlayer (Jalipo Player) is what checks that reference.
It would be near impossible to just download the actual video link without some serious tampering of the JPlayer code. Which isn't public domain, so that's unlikely to happen.
I was playing around with it tonight, I myself have just seen one or two episodes, but like the poster I wanted to rewatch them. Upon finding this thread I figured the best way to move them away from Jalipo would be to show an insecurity in it's use. I haven't found it yet but I've gotten really close on several occasions.
The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
If that above statement gets moderated, please leave this next part in. What I just stated up there is a sure fire way of watching episodes for free, the only thing you need is a little bit of creativeness. This insecurity should have been enough to force EVETV and CCP to use another service.
IMO, the best service is to advertise. Advertise on the site, advertise in the middle of the show, in between segments of course, advertise at the beginning. It will annoy your viewers, but I don't think I know anyone who doesn't watch a show they like simply because of advertisements every 15 minutes in an hour segment. It's part of life now, it's an easy way to run things when it comes to media and probably the best solution.
A few other ideas that came to mind. DS (i think it was) had an idea about checking which companies leaked your file via a watermark. I had a different idea that still involved a watermark, I'm not sure if it can be done now (as in, you'll need to get someone to code your own player.) but the idea is that you will have an account based site, which takes either a monthly subscription fee to sign up and you then get unlimited viewing of the episodes. Or you then pay per episode and they get added to your account (http://www.penguinmagic.com has a nice system like that) and can watch them at a later date. Either way, the video will be layered with 1) the video, 2) a very odd coloured watermark which disallows anything to be viewed behind it. The player then, using some form of either recognition or instruction from the video, then De-layers the video stream, and plays back the one without the watermark. This watermark would be specific to your player, and only those who possess your player will be able to play the video at a watchable level (since you're the only ones to possess the player, your members are the only ones who can view it). Again, I'm not sure how plausable that is, but it seems like a relatively useful method of keeping things safe.. With that method, if they were able to download the actual video, they wouldn't be able to see anything unless played through your specific player.
In the end, Jalipo is a poor choice for the EVE TV hosting. My suggestion would be to get international computer oriented sponsers (at least make it interesting to the viewers) and advertise for them. Again, it may annoy the viewers, but they will watch, and that is what will get you money to fund it. If you work out a per view contract with those sponsers, I'm sure you'll get a hell of a lot more money than you do now.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.28 23:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Aya
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.29 10:42:00 -
[62]
Why not run it like www.mlb.com
You can pay per episode or join for say 30 a month (1dollar/episode) and then rewatch all present and past episodes.
MLB.com has a thing where you can get all games streaming over the internet for 140? a year. Or you can indivudally watch one game for like 3 dollars. If you pay the 140 however you can always go back and watch any past games as they archive everything.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.29 15:48:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.30 05:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Acidictadpole[quote=Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
That's my point, you don't even need 5 minutes, because there are services which let you use emails without registering them.
I use them all the time. And 2prong is unstoppable because it changes domain every two days.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.30 10:56:00 -
[65]
I just looked at 2prong.com - it ran a script that tried to access my clipboard - hardly re-assuring behaviour. --------------------------------- |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 12:06:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Acidictadpole on 30/07/2007 12:10:40
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole[quote=Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
That's my point, you don't even need 5 minutes, because there are services which let you use emails without registering them.
I use them all the time. And 2prong is unstoppable because it changes domain every two days.
Ah, I misunderstood the type of sites these were. I thought they were Jalipo-like sites rather than an email trickster site.
It might come in handy in the future ^.^ Thanks.
As for how secure it is; yahoo, hotmail, gmail, zapo? and a lot of others are common knowledge (I didn't know about this 2prong doohicky yet) so it pretty much opens the exploit to 95% of the internet, even though much much less will actually use your service.
When your product is available to be exploited by more people than who is interested in using it, you have a BIG problem.
EDIT: I tried the two types of sites you used up there, and when trying to read them it just becomes a garbled message, probably due to a certain formatting.
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Death Kill
Caldari direkte
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Even **** sites lets you download
Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:28:00 -
[68]
I don't know what kind of pay per view you have Wrangler, but mine lets me watch the movie I ordered over and over again for 3 days. But hey, maybe that forum of antiquated technology is beyond the reach of CCP or EvE TV. You came to the wrong forum with that ppv analogy. We are not tech-illiterate fools here. ----
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:55:00 -
[69]
I wonder about the legal aspect of this...
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.31 20:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: RedLion I wonder about the legal aspect of this...
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
When you click on a purchase link it tells you that they charge you per minute viewed. If you watch it again you are viewing it for more minutes. So the legal part is on their side, you get what you pay for.
I just want them to realise that using Jalipo is a terrible idea as it's service is farthest from the best thing that EVETv can do to fund itself.
I would be interested to see the details of their deal with Jalipo, it could be that even though the free emails are able to watch free shows they could still be getting paid by Jalipo per minute (So why would they care whether the email was made just for that single episode or not). If so, all we need to do is constantly do that and it will eventually run Jalipo out of business, as they will be giving out money while not recieving the amount required to pay off.
Again, depending on the confidentiality of their agreement, (perhaps it's a general one for all of jalipo?) i'de like to see what EVETV gets out of it.
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joahn
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Posted - 2007.08.01 13:36:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Just for the record pay per veiw gives you access to said movie for 24 hours before you hav eto pay again. well at least in the US
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:01:00 -
[72]
It's the US, It's most of europe... that's why I don't think the way they do it now is legal.
Because they don't flag their poor customer treatment better :P
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The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:45:00 -
[73]
Edited by: The Provisioner on 01/08/2007 21:46:23 [PPV] Pay per view is a generic marketing term. It can cover strict pay-per-view, like Jalipo, or it can mean 'pay-per-period-but-watch-as-often-as-you-want-in-that-period', like some cable channels. Hotel PPV, if a you buy a film via hotel in-house cable, is per-film, per example. If you try to rewatch, it cuts out after the first few minutes. Just because fred bloggs ltd use it in the less-strict way doesnt mean other companies need to adopt that definition. There is no legal ground for disssent.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.02 04:33:00 -
[74]
I find it funny that you guys are still arguing what Pay-Per-View actually means. Considering it's just a marketing term for something that you pay to watch, which all companies use since it's so well known.
In MY Opinion, PPV is exactly what the title says, you Pay everytime Per View. Which is exactly what Jalipo does, the real reason that companies allow you to keep things for 24 hours is because of possible system failure/reason may come up why you can't watch it. They just do it to avoid getting thousands of customer service calls from those people who had their cable cut out, got interupted by phone/door/kid/whatever, or any other reason they may need to start the movie again. It doesn't cost the company any extra to hold it over for 24 hours, and what are the chances of you watching a movie twice in 24 hours anyway? They don't lose anything from it, except the CS calls (which technically is a gain, since they don't need to worry about that crap).
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.02 15:42:00 -
[75]
I had an idea, remembering something from a browser based game i used to play, which after all the costs of servers etc etc, the developers (5 of them) made about ú1000 each a week.
Simple to view this you mkae it so that you open a new window and stick 3 adds on it which change for an example of this play the free version of runescape. There is a ad and after a while another ad automatically takes its place, so its free, the EVE team make there money and everyone is happy. ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Blue dabadee
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:50:00 -
[76]
Paying per episode would appease those who don't want to pay to watch the same episode twice.
Episode 7 comes out. Person logs into thier Jalipoo and pays for episode 7. Their account will show they have purchased the right to view that episode whenever they want, but not to download.
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 12:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 02/08/2007 04:49:10 I find it funny that you guys are still arguing what Pay-Per-View actually means. Considering it's just a marketing term for something that you pay to watch, which all companies use since it's so well known.
In MY Opinion, PPV is exactly what the title says, you Pay everytime Per View. Which is exactly what Jalipo does, the real reason that companies allow you to keep things for 24 hours is because of possible system failure/reason may come up why you can't watch it. They just do it to avoid getting thousands of customer service calls from those people who had their cable cut out, got interupted by phone/door/kid/whatever, or any other reason they may need to start the movie again. It doesn't cost the company any extra to hold it over for 24 hours, and what are the chances of you watching a movie twice in 24 hours anyway? They don't lose anything from it, except the CS calls (which technically is a gain, since they don't need to worry about that crap).
Quote:
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
I don't understand how you can even come to the conclusion that something like this can be illegal. They aren't offering a service that let's you rewatch stuff, sure it's misleading the way they conveniently leave out the fact it's not like conventional movie sites. But I would like you to sit down and watch some commercials on television, especially infomercials and the odd banking one, and tell me if they say anything bad about their product/service.
Notice all the happy stuff they tell you? And there's no sad details? Yea, you got it, that's business. Read the fine print and realise all the crappy stuff about the product they have to legally tell you, but don't want to turn you away before you even spend money coming to investigate it.
I think the term / phrase I would like you to learn is "Buyer Beware", repeat it at night if you have to. But just because you spend your money on something that may not be truthful or completely legal, doesn't make it 100% definite you're getting your money back. The other party may end up getting caught eventually, but it was your fault for getting into the venture, and you could pay for it.
Do not pay for anything until you know the full extent of the product. Jalipo offers a service, that service allows you to pay per minute of their streaming bandwidth, which means that you pay for every minute that you watch the video they are hosting. So technically, those people who are downloading it / ripping it to rewatch later are breaking their ToS (I didn't read it, but I would be sure they would have something about it in there) because they aren't paying to watch minutes of a show they got from their site.
Once again EVETV.. Jalipo seems like a terrible service, if you are looking at trying to improve, I sit @ coldfront as Acidictadpole. If you PM me I will always get it, and will respond eventually. I can offer suggestions and let you know why they work above other methods, and I can also tell you which things would be bad for you as a show when it comes to propagating your videos.
It doesn't even stand PPV :)
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.06 13:07:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Blue dabadee Paying per episode would appease those who don't want to pay to watch the same episode twice.
Episode 7 comes out. Person logs into thier Jalipoo and pays for episode 7. Their account will show they have purchased the right to view that episode whenever they want, but not to download.
Of course, but Jalipo won't allow that.
Solution is obvious: dump Jalipo.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Danzig256k
Caldari Mortal Devastating Kin
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Posted - 2007.08.06 14:19:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Danzig256k on 06/08/2007 14:23:24
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
here's a thought, how about tacking on a buck or 2 to the subscription price for any user that wants to view the evetv segments. i for one wouldn't miss the extra buck. just make an option in the acct management section for "EveTV subscription", then all proceeds from that option could go into the EveTV budget
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2007.08.06 17:21:00 -
[80]
Why not include EVE-TV in the subscription on an optional basis?
- 1 month of subscription: 14.95Ç - 1 month of subscription + EVETV: 17.95Ç (Dunno, it's a random sum) etc.
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The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.08.06 20:28:00 -
[81]
EveTV isnt the same company as CCP. In order to do any sort of tie-in with subscription, there'd be lots of complicated inter-company accounts stuff going on. As MMMP is unrelated, I dont think that'd ever happen. --------------------------------- |
Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2007.08.06 21:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
Well now, it is time for a seasoned professional to back the student up.
He is correct on all points in the posts he has made. The lack of security employed by the service provider at the very basic foundation principles (authentication, authroization, access control) has negated any other security mechanisms that have been implemented at the higher levels. Basically, anyone with access to the internet can just create free disposable email accounts and watch as much as they want. Only drawback is the inconvieniance factor which CCP/Jalipo failed to properly estimate with the charges for the service.
Now the actual root of the problem. What should be a free service paid for by sponsors is twisted around to charging the marketbase to keep it alive. Wrong. Bad for business, proven unsuccessful in the past many times by various business ventures. The only time it does work is for live sporting events and Eve Tv can not be considered 'live' as only the tourney is actually live. So fix that problem. Let Eve Tv be free and get some sponsors. Like I said before, Intel, AMD, Nvidia; all those guys love target advertising.
If you don't start going down this path soon, Eve Tv is doomed to fail. I don't think any of us want that so maybe take some advice from those in the know.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 03:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
Well now, it is time for a seasoned professional to back the student up.
He is correct on all points in the posts he has made. The lack of security employed by the service provider at the very basic foundation principles (authentication, authroization, access control) has negated any other security mechanisms that have been implemented at the higher levels. Basically, anyone with access to the internet can just create free disposable email accounts and watch as much as they want. Only drawback is the inconvieniance factor which CCP/Jalipo failed to properly estimate with the charges for the service.
Now the actual root of the problem. What should be a free service paid for by sponsors is twisted around to charging the marketbase to keep it alive. Wrong. Bad for business, proven unsuccessful in the past many times by various business ventures. The only time it does work is for live sporting events and Eve Tv can not be considered 'live' as only the tourney is actually live. So fix that problem. Let Eve Tv be free and get some sponsors. Like I said before, Intel, AMD, Nvidia; all those guys love target advertising.
If you don't start going down this path soon, Eve Tv is doomed to fail. I don't think any of us want that so maybe take some advice from those in the know.
Nice to see someone else who sees the actual problem instead of debating what the legal definition of pay-per-view is.
I myself would like to know from any of the EVETV reps if this post is actually getting any recognition at all, or whether our pleas are falling on deaf ears. It would really be unfortunate if you guys had to cancel because some people with working tried and tested solutions to the issues at hand are being ignored.
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.07 11:50:00 -
[84]
However the legal definition is important, however since EVE is a small game compared to for example WoW it's noone who really cares.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 11:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: RedLion However the legal definition is important, however since EVE is a small game compared to for example WoW it's noone who really cares.
Jalipo in no way that I can tell claims to be a PPV site, the people who gave it that label are probably the ones who argued about it.
From Jalipo's site:
Originally by: "Jalipo's Site"
Jalipo is the first online marketplace for TV and video. It lets content owners use the Internet to offer their channels, video-on-demand and live events direct to viewers around the world.
Nothing in there claims PPV, and nothing about pay-per-view on their site whatsoever.
So perhaps it is important in the grand scheme of things so you guys can sue other companies who don't live up to the name of PPV (doubt it tbh). But in this thread it is entirely irrelevant.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.08.07 12:20:00 -
[86]
i guess my question about the payperview, not being able to re-view what you've already paid for, etc is -- is it worth a couple of dollars to watch? 30,000+ times $2 = a nice little bit of moneys.
if you have correspondents who are having to go to the forums to get information from random-joe players; then, what am i paying to watch?
is it a bikini clad hottie re-telling me what i already know from reading the forums and she gets feather tickled by another bikini clad hottie?
if it's just two dudes reading to me what i've read on the forums; then, i can dress my hottie wife in a bikini and have her read the forums to me and probably enjoy that a tad more.
yes, i know you can get free credits to watch an episode. if in good faith, you can't re-watch what you've seen already; then why would i want to waste my free view on two dudes reading items to me that i already know from ingame, or from reading the forums myself?
if there's no re-viewing, then I'd like to request that the episodes that feature nothing other than scantily clad gorgeous women-folk be marked as such and then I'll know which episode i want to see for free, one time.
thanks in advance. |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 13:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd i guess my question about the payperview, not being able to re-view what you've already paid for, etc is -- is it worth a couple of dollars to watch? 30,000+ times $2 = a nice little bit of moneys.
if you have correspondents who are having to go to the forums to get information from random-joe players; then, what am i paying to watch?
is it a bikini clad hottie re-telling me what i already know from reading the forums and she gets feather tickled by another bikini clad hottie?
if it's just two dudes reading to me what i've read on the forums; then, i can dress my hottie wife in a bikini and have her read the forums to me and probably enjoy that a tad more.
yes, i know you can get free credits to watch an episode. if in good faith, you can't re-watch what you've seen already; then why would i want to waste my free view on two dudes reading items to me that i already know from ingame, or from reading the forums myself?
if there's no re-viewing, then I'd like to request that the episodes that feature nothing other than scantily clad gorgeous women-folk be marked as such and then I'll know which episode i want to see for free, one time.
thanks in advance.
Heh, they actually bring in well-known players for interviews and stuff. Although one of the presenters could be considered a "bikini clad hottie", from what I've seen it can be pretty informational (all the episodes so far seem to have good reviews from what I've read). I've only seen two myself though.
My big idea
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FarScape III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:55:00 -
[88]
I want to watch some of the episodes again because there is allot of info to take in, but do not want to pay again.
TV news keeps repeating the same stories and i pay the same amount every month for cable TV. ***
A Minmater City... Cool! |
Popsikle
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.08.08 06:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
No matter what pay per view you have, theres always a f'in VCR to record it to. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime. |
Abram
Caldari Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:21:00 -
[90]
I agree with the pay per view point of view, it being like a movie etc but lets not loose site of the fact this is a "news channel" Their is no news channel in the world accept EVE TV that is pay per view, yes i agree with movies and major sport events this is acceptable but doing this for a news channel is not.
Keep stating your point of views and arguments people it will force change in time otherwise they will loose credit subscribers.
BTW i really enjoy EVE TV and my respect to those who organise it.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.08 13:47:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Abram I agree with the pay per view point of view, it being like a movie etc but lets not loose site of the fact this is a "news channel" Their is no news channel in the world accept EVE TV that is pay per view, yes i agree with movies and major sport events this is acceptable but doing this for a news channel is not.
Keep stating your point of views and arguments people it will force change in time otherwise they will loose credit subscribers.
BTW i really enjoy EVE TV and my respect to those who organise it.
Just to point out, BBC, Sky and some other well known news organizations are using Jalipo also.
Abram, why is it acceptable or not how they present the show? They need money and it was the most obvious solution. Albeit Jalipo is a terrible provider for it, and since you can't rewatch things it makes it even worse, but in the end EVETV needs money to continue running.
What makes a once a week "issues in game" (i don't think calling it "news" is 100% correct either, even though they present it as a news program.) different enough from a sporting event? I'll tell you.
The sporting event's pay per view will bring in a LOT more money, because it's audience is a lot wider and more inclined to want to pay to watch it. Most likely because it's a special match or a final. I'm taking the WWE as the most obvious example as I see that being PPV and at the cinemas a lot.
In order for PPV to work well, you need to have the audience to support it. And encourage some reason to view it on the pay per view rather than wait 10 minutes and get it for free later.. Because I'm sure the PPV wrestling is put on the internet and even broadcast on some TV stations 10 minutes after it's done live. EVETV neither has the audience, nor the reason to view it directly from Jalipo or any other site directly while paying for it.
With all due respect to Xyliana and the rest of EVETV, but you guys made a bad choice with what seems like very little thought. And if you did have a reason behind choosing Jalipo, please by all means put me in my place and tell us. But from what we've seen it's been a bad distribution method (paying per show, can't rewatch) to pick.
My big idea
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Remotion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 15:32:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Remotion on 08/08/2007 15:42:10 put it this way i had a person nock on my door half way thru a show now i have to pay 5 dollars again becuase i got a knock at the door. thats total crap if you ask me im not going to pay for somthing twice cuase i got a phone call. and another thing last week it took over all my credits to watch a show it took all of what i had and ask me to top up for more this is starting to anger me. if you pause it for a ammount of time it charges you for being paused also now this is enought either fix it or lose a customer your choice.
also y dont you make a pole for customers that actualy pay to watch this like me and see if they think it would be fair to have the right to view it again after we paid for it. i also get the magazine and i dont have to pay for that everytime i open the cover. please fix this.... i can understand for the trial people but not for the paying customer.
if you dont fix this for the people that do pay then you will lose more customers and have more people figure out how to copy your shows and stream them for everyone else it happens on everything eventualy but i actualy pay for it and am not into piracy altho the way this is going i would actualy think about it and im truley sorry to say that.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.09 05:15:00 -
[93]
Why didn't you pause it? I've had no problem pausing to watch later.
My big idea
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Abram
Caldari Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.09 07:49:00 -
[94]
Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
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Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.10 23:12:00 -
[95]
I really wish people would stop saying "Information wants to be free" out of context
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Vertex Eisenstein
Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.11 14:55:00 -
[96]
I will not be buying any more credits.
For 2 weeks running I have lost the stream halfway through with an error such as "we cannot locate the stream". This doesnt seem to be a problem at my end, as I never lost connection to my ISP and other sites continued to load. This is totally unacceptable if you then have to pay again!
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prsr
Gallente JuBa Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.11 17:04:00 -
[97]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
Kinda late, but...
It's not like people that aren't paying now will care whether or not there is EVE TV. -- .sig apathy ftw |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.11 17:15:00 -
[98]
Originally by: prsr
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
Kinda late, but...
It's not like people that aren't paying now will care whether or not there is EVE TV.
and the people that do care would like a better option to give CCP money. yes it's not owned by CCP, but they make money form it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
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Qin Yu
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Posted - 2007.08.11 23:49:00 -
[99]
Two main issues
1) You can get enough free credit to watch a single episode with an email. Merely creating several email addresses allows you to watch episodes for free.
This needs to be fixed.
2) I watched an episode and was part way through it then the connection crashed and despite my net still running and still able to use the internet was unable to establish a connection with the channel. I lost all the credit I used watching the episode and would be forced to watch the stuff I've already seen (costing more of credit to get to the same point.)
This also needs fixing.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.12 05:02:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Qin Yu Two main issues
1) You can get enough free credit to watch a single episode with an email. Merely creating several email addresses allows you to watch episodes for free.
Heard of 2prong or Mailinator? You don't need to make email addresses.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.12 19:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Qin Yu
2) I watched an episode and was part way through it then the connection crashed and despite my net still running and still able to use the internet was unable to establish a connection with the channel. I lost all the credit I used watching the episode and would be forced to watch the stuff I've already seen (costing more of credit to get to the same point.)
This also needs fixing.
This seems to be a big issue. But it's easily remedied on my pc.
Try to recall where in the video you were, keep the movie paused until that spot is loaded and a little more. Move to that point and unpause it.
I haven't tested this because I haven't had to, but I'm pretty confident it would work, here's why:
Jalipo uses a per minute billing system, so for every minute that the video has been playing you get credits deducted from your account.
Someone will need to test this, so I can't garantee it works, as there are a couple of reasons it may not.
Such as if they use a simple subtraction for credit deduction rather than playtime. (3 minutes left of a 6 minutes viewed = 3 minutes deducted).
My big idea
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The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.08.12 20:25:00 -
[102]
The player seems to poll the credits total every few minutes, you can pause and it wont deduct the credits. If you drag the slider while its playing, it will only deduct for how long this takes (paused or not) and therefore only charge for what you watch (this has been tested on both my laptop and main pc). So, if it crashes, you can jump back to any point on the timeline later and not lose credits. --------------------------------- |
Coconut Joe
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.08.12 21:15:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Abram Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
The actual bottom line is that if you don't like it, don't watch.
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Templer Relleg
Endgame. Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.12 22:07:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Coconut Joe
Originally by: Abram Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
The actual bottom line is that if you don't like it, don't watch.
But because someone doesnt like jalipo, it doesnt mean they dont like evetv.
I for one like evetv, but i cant stand jalipo.
Now stop playing cool and ignorant. Its not cool.
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Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.12 23:10:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Coconut Joe
Originally by: Abram Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
The actual bottom line is that if you don't like it, don't watch.
Sorry, but that's like saying if you don't like lag don't play eve. Its a stupid position to take
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Abram
Caldari Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.13 10:07:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Coconut Joe
Originally by: Abram Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
The actual bottom line is that if you don't like it, don't watch.
Yes but i do like it so my bottom line still stands, end of your topic
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Templer Relleg
Endgame. Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.13 10:33:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Abram
Originally by: Coconut Joe
Originally by: Abram Bottom line is having to keep paying to view is un-acceptable. End of topic.
The actual bottom line is that if you don't like it, don't watch.
Yes but i do like it so my bottom line still stands, end of your topic
Stop being ignorant. Just because you cant see the problem(Tells more about you than evetv), it doesnt mean your right.
Majority of the community think its a major problem, and i have been arguing over this very topic for 8 months. But nobody listens.
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Remotion
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:36:00 -
[108]
they sent me a credit so im very happy about that altho i think i one day viewing time would be a great idea or i digital download with drm for a certin ammount of time.
Thanks alan for the credit back
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.08.21 05:19:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Qin Yu Two main issues
1) You can get enough free credit to watch a single episode with an email. Merely creating several email addresses allows you to watch episodes for free.
Heard of 2prong or Mailinator? You don't need to make email addresses.
I keep a random folder of links. Here's one.
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Reverend William
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.23 04:49:00 -
[110]
Wait, what? Why doesn't Eve TV run on advertisements? If ESPN or comedy central can let me watch long streamed videos all day long online and only have to watch a commercial every few minutes, whats the big deal? You can't tell me that a community with 200k users is going to have a difficult time finding sponsors. Nvidia, Intel, Energy drinks, 3 easy sells right off the top of my head. This isn't rocket science. I will gladly watch commercials to watch eve tv, but there's no way I'm playing it once and never again for a fee.
PS Sorry if this is a an old topic/suggestion. Been missing for a little bit =) |
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Dark Guardian
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Posted - 2007.08.28 23:34:00 -
[111]
So, I've heard that Evetv is looking into a system that might allow people to watch without being forced into Jalipo. I'm assuming the discussion on that has stalled, leading to keeping evetv Jalipo only, and requiring double payment to watch the same episode twice.
Is this still the case? (note: not a yes/no question, please be specific :)) |
Kodiak31415
An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.29 06:32:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Kodiak31415 on 29/08/2007 06:32:35 If I was allowed to download episodes I would pay for eve TV.
And I bet that I am far from the only one with this opinion. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot |
KarateKid
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.29 23:20:00 -
[113]
I haven't read the whole thread. But why not make an option to subscribe to EveTV? So you can either pay pr view, or pay a set monthly fee to watch the available episodes as many times as you like?
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Obed
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2007.08.30 15:17:00 -
[114]
Originally by: KarateKid I haven't read the whole thread. But why not make an option to subscribe to EveTV? So you can either pay pr view, or pay a set monthly fee to watch the available episodes as many times as you like?
Sounds like a sensible idea - simply have an option under the account section to subscribe to EVE TV, in a similar way to EVE Voice. At the moment I've seen one episode using the free credits, but I wouldn't pay to view any more given the inability to watch them again without being charged.
Something that I could accept however would be using the "DVD rental" business model. For example I pay something like ú10 a month to watch up to 6 films. If you adopted a similar business model then the way it would work is:
1) Pay úx a month. 2) View up to x amount of videos online, as many times as you want. 3) At the end of the month you pick your selections for the following month (which could be things you've already viewed or things that are scheduled to show). 4) Customer gets bored of EVE TV? They simply stop their subscription and lose access at the end of the month.
Much better then how it works at the moment IMHO, while still protecting your revenue stream.
-----
I have one account and zero alts.
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