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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.17 17:23:00 -
[1]
Today is the first day of Sov 3 for some of you, and we're becoming aware that there's some confusion over some of the new toys. In particular, the basic working of the Jump Bridge should be documented but isn't, and it's not entirely obvious how it's supposed to work.
- It must be anchored at least 15km from the forcefield, the same as the Cyno Generator. This is a conservative distance to ensure that nobody bounces off the forcefield on jump-in
- It needs to be linked to another jump bridge in range before being onlined. This is done by right-clicking and selecting the "Bridge to" option, which will list all your anchored jump bridges. Bear in mind it only has a 5 LY range. You can see the range from your tower to all your other towers in the "Control Towers" listing under "Structures" in the Management window
- It needs to be loaded with Liquid Ozone. This fuel goes directly into the Jump Bridge structure. It is not taken from the control tower, or from the ship doing the jumping
- It needs to be put online (obviously)
- If the starbase is owned by your corp, anyone in your corp can use the jump bridge
- If the starbase is not owned by your corp, you must meet the following two conditions in order to use the Jump bridge:
1) You must have the starbase forcefield password set. This allows alliances to control exactly who uses their jump bridges and who burns all their fuel. Security here is exactly as tight as you want to make it
2) The tower must not be configured to attack you. This prevents spies from having a field day with these things. These are high-level structures - if you want to abuse them, get a high-level spy who can change the starbase aggression settings
If you meet both conditions, when within 2,500m you will be able to right-click the tower and select "Jump through to [system name]". This will burn an amount of fuel based on your ship mass and the jump range. There's no direct way for any arbitrary pilot to see their fuel consumption currently, but if you have access to the starbase management screen it will tell you the fuel usage for your ship for all of your corp's current jump bridge pairs. This isn't perfect, but it should allow you to build up a good idea of how fuel costs scale for different ship classes for the jump bridges that you own.
If you don't meet condition 1), the option to jump simply won't display. If you meet condition 1) but not condition 2), it will give you the menu option, but when selecting it you will get the error "You cannot jump through the jump portal because the tower is set to consider you someone who should be attacked on sight."
Hope this helps - if there's any questions, please let me know and I'll try and answer them
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Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Minmatar Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.07.17 17:28:00 -
[2]
- If the starbase is not owned by your corp, you must meet the following two conditions in order to use the Jump bridge:
I'm gonna asume that this goes for anyone outside of the owning corporation? ergo you do not need to be in the alliance per se to use this structure? but can use it with the password and the standings?
Other than that, i understand whats it supposed to do and i like it :D
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.17 17:41:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ssoraszh Tzarszh - If the starbase is not owned by your corp, you must meet the following two conditions in order to use the Jump bridge:
I'm gonna asume that this goes for anyone outside of the owning corporation? ergo you do not need to be in the alliance per se to use this structure? but can use it with the password and the standings?
Other than that, i understand whats it supposed to do and i like it :D
Yes, that means exactly what it looks like it means. If you are not in the owning corp but you meet the two prerequisites of having the password and not having the tower set to shoot you, you can use the jump bridge regardless of who you are or what ship you're in. This means that you can grant access to jump bridges to your alliance or to other friendly forces on a per-tower basis. You should even be able to let people use your empire -> 0.0 route but not your 0.0 -> empire route, by giving out the passwords for the towers in one direction but not in the other.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.17 17:41:00 -
[4]
How about letting the owners charge a toll per kg-light year moved, so they can re-coup their fuel costs if they want to let lots of people use it, without granting everyone access? Many other starbase structures support this sort of use. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 19:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: HydroSan on 17/07/2007 19:08:32 The biggest thing holding back people I've talked with from rolling these out is that there isn't really any 'toll system' for this. For smaller 0.0 outfits it would be fine, but what if you're a larger alliance (like the one I'm in)? Auditing this kind of thing would be a nightmare, as you'd have to collect for anyone who used it, their alts, and all that kind of stuff.
Would there be any way of making it a make-shift toll system? Say, taking Liquid Ozone stored in your hangar at a station your corporation/the corporation that runs the jump bridge owns and delivering the amount used to jump your ship to the corporate hangar at that station? Ergo, if you have no fuel at the "toll booth" (the station) you are not permitted to jump. This way the jump bridge becomes viable for larger alliances, so they don't have to keep tracking down whoever uses the jump bridge, and the 'payment' is 100% automatic.
Just a thought.
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Braaage
Laborius Chapter
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Posted - 2007.07.17 19:36:00 -
[6]
Greyscale do Cyno jammers stop the use of the Jump bridge?
I assume the jammer does stop the use of the cyno generator? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info |
Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.17 21:32:00 -
[7]
I have to say, thats something im looking forward to, if it can be implemented *Bats his eyelids*
Tolls
Eg - Cynosurial Arrays / Jump Bridges. Would be mighty useful to ease those pos costs :P
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.07.17 22:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Braaage Greyscale do Cyno jammers stop the use of the Jump bridge?
I assume the jammer does stop the use of the cyno generator?
No. The bridge is specifically allowed so friendlys can bridge in to jammed systems. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Cap II
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Posted - 2007.07.18 00:22:00 -
[9]
Without having looked at the structure, is it possible to put fuel into the thing without roles just like corp hangars in stations? So just leave them empty of ozone, and anyone who wants to use it can put in the required amount and jump.
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Hon Kovell
Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.07.18 01:42:00 -
[10]
What happens if you have no password set on the tower? Open access or no access? |
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Tarnia Xavian
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Posted - 2007.07.18 02:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- It needs to be loaded with Liquid Ozone. This fuel goes directly into the Jump Bridge structure. It is not taken from the control tower, or from the ship doing the jumping
Come on, guys, change this. We're already giving up a buttload of pg and cpu to these things. Please don't make them administrative nightmares as well. Just set it to take the ozone from the jumping ship, and be done with it. Please.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 02:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tarnia Xavian
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- It needs to be loaded with Liquid Ozone. This fuel goes directly into the Jump Bridge structure. It is not taken from the control tower, or from the ship doing the jumping
Come on, guys, change this. We're already giving up a buttload of pg and cpu to these things. Please don't make them administrative nightmares as well. Just set it to take the ozone from the jumping ship, and be done with it. Please.
Well some way of charging the allaince mates to use it would be good. Or need to be able to set a toll for using it. Its supposed to be there for emergencies, not so my lazy carebears can freely jump back & forth when they find the tower, or someone gives out the pw. . Do not read this thread!!!
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Laendra
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Posted - 2007.07.18 04:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tarnia Xavian
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- It needs to be loaded with Liquid Ozone. This fuel goes directly into the Jump Bridge structure. It is not taken from the control tower, or from the ship doing the jumping
Come on, guys, change this. We're already giving up a buttload of pg and cpu to these things. Please don't make them administrative nightmares as well. Just set it to take the ozone from the jumping ship, and be done with it. Please.
/signed
BTW, it's a damned shame you have to link it one way or the other. Useful would be letting the user select the bridge destination within range and fuel capability that you are carrying. So, I could jump to the next bridge in the line, or the previous one, from selecting from a context menu.
Another useful feature, although I am sure people will scream "no" when they read it, would be to allow the destination to be a cyno generator (starbase module or ship module, or both) within range and fuel capability. ------------------- Brainstorm ideas to make EVE better:->http://eve.stormingbrains.org/index.php
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.18 09:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cap II Without having looked at the structure, is it possible to put fuel into the thing without roles just like corp hangars in stations? So just leave them empty of ozone, and anyone who wants to use it can put in the required amount and jump.
Yes. I believe you can allow anyone in your corp or in your alliance to add fuel, which gives you a stopgap "toll" method. I'll look into the possibility of adding a proper fee system when we have time
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:11:00 -
[15]
I am sure I read somewhere, that there could be no more than one jump bridge per system. Am I wrong?
I am just wondering if an alliance can have several jumpbridges in one system (one POS?) radiating out to other constellations.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.18 14:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Cap II Without having looked at the structure, is it possible to put fuel into the thing without roles just like corp hangars in stations? So just leave them empty of ozone, and anyone who wants to use it can put in the required amount and jump.
Yes. I believe you can allow anyone in your corp or in your alliance to add fuel, which gives you a stopgap "toll" method. I'll look into the possibility of adding a proper fee system when we have time
Taking fuel from the jumping ship would honestly be the best method for 99% of cases. There are few things without the cargo bay for it.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.18 16:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 I am sure I read somewhere, that there could be no more than one jump bridge per system. Am I wrong?
I am just wondering if an alliance can have several jumpbridges in one system (one POS?) radiating out to other constellations.
Two per system per alliance
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Cap II Without having looked at the structure, is it possible to put fuel into the thing without roles just like corp hangars in stations? So just leave them empty of ozone, and anyone who wants to use it can put in the required amount and jump.
Yes. I believe you can allow anyone in your corp or in your alliance to add fuel, which gives you a stopgap "toll" method. I'll look into the possibility of adding a proper fee system when we have time
Taking fuel from the jumping ship would honestly be the best method for 99% of cases. There are few things without the cargo bay for it.
It's not having the cargo for it that I was thinking about, it's having to get the fuel into your cargo every time you jump which I think would get frustrating fairly quickly. I'm also not sure how easy it would be from a technical point of view.
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belzebub1
Gallente The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 17:36:00 -
[18]
Edited by: belzebub1 on 18/07/2007 17:37:02 You call out that you need to have the force field PW. If the POS is an alliance POS and you do not need the PW then I assume that this condition is met Rgds
Belz
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.18 17:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: belzebub1 Edited by: belzebub1 on 18/07/2007 17:37:02 You call out that you need to have the force field PW. If the POS is an alliance POS and you do not need the PW then I assume that this condition is met
The mechanics work (SHOULD WORK) exactly as I stated. If you are not in the corp then you must have the password entered and the tower must be configured not to aggress you. If these conditions are met, and there's sufficient fuel in the bridge, you will jump, otherwise you won't.
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Tarnia Xavian
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Posted - 2007.07.18 18:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
It's not having the cargo for it that I was thinking about, it's having to get the fuel into your cargo every time you jump which I think would get frustrating fairly quickly. I'm also not sure how easy it would be from a technical point of view.
Thanks for looking at this. For Dreadnought and Carrier pilots this is how it's done. Dread pilots need to juggle jump fuel, strontium and ammo for their operations.
What I mean is, there is already an established procedure for these "types" of ship movements. It's merely a matter of how consistent does CCP want to keep this kind of travel. Consistency is a good thing given the depth of our game. If there are technical roadblocks then, well....ok.
Alternatively, you could drastically reduce the pg and cpu requirements so that we won't need to dedicate 2 large towers to these mods which increase the time we spend "working" rather than "playing". That is, the adminstrative overhead for these mods would go into the jump fuel support role rather than fueling for the additional towers.
Thanks for listening, and thanks for making such a great game for us. |
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.07.18 23:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 I am sure I read somewhere, that there could be no more than one jump bridge per system. Am I wrong?
I am just wondering if an alliance can have several jumpbridges in one system (one POS?) radiating out to other constellations.
2 per system. You can't form a hub & spoke design, only a ring/road. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.19 00:01:00 -
[22]
^Unless you want to use a constelation, rather than an individual system, as your hub....
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.19 05:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale It's not having the cargo for it that I was thinking about, it's having to get the fuel into your cargo every time you jump which I think would get frustrating fairly quickly. I'm also not sure how easy it would be from a technical point of view.
As another poster pointed out, the precedent game-wise for this is the way carriers/dreads etc operate.
But - I'm also curious about why this would be a technical hurdle, since isn't there a code-precedent for it in the form of the warp gate keys in deadspaces?
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.19 08:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: CCP Greyscale It's not having the cargo for it that I was thinking about, it's having to get the fuel into your cargo every time you jump which I think would get frustrating fairly quickly. I'm also not sure how easy it would be from a technical point of view.
As another poster pointed out, the precedent game-wise for this is the way carriers/dreads etc operate.
But - I'm also curious about why this would be a technical hurdle, since isn't there a code-precedent for it in the form of the warp gate keys in deadspaces?
The precedent is debatable. carriers/dreads are both the thing being jumped, and the thing that's doing the jumping. So you can't really say that fuel is taken from the ships cargo beacuse it's the thing that's jumping, rather than the thing that's doing the jumping.
A better precedent would be the titan jump bridge, where the thing doing the jumping (titan) and the thing being jumped (his fleet mates) are seperate.
Personally, I would think it would be far preferable logistics-wise to have an isk-based toll system funding a centralised alliance supply system, rather than having to distribute small quantities of fuel to all your pilots individually. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.19 10:30:00 -
[25]
Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 19/07/2007 10:32:42 As Matthew rightly guesses, the Jump Bridge design is designed along the lines of the Titan Jump Portal rather than Jump Drives, and in that case the fuel is taken from the object creating the jump link rather than the object doing the jumping. We took the mechanics from the Jump Portal, decided what needed to be changed and then implemented it as a Jump Bridge, and the way fuelling is handled was not something we wanted to change.
We'll look into some kind of toll system but, to be honest, the original design spec was for a tool to help with large-scale logistics and planned fleet movement, not a tool to allow every random pilot to hop around space at will. If you want to use it in the latter way, then that's fine but - for now at least - dealing with the fact that you're repurposing a tool for something other than its original purpose will be part of the cost of doing so.
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Cardice Makar
Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.19 14:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 19/07/2007 10:32:42 As Matthew rightly guesses, the Jump Bridge design is designed along the lines of the Titan Jump Portal rather than Jump Drives, and in that case the fuel is taken from the object creating the jump link rather than the object doing the jumping. We took the mechanics from the Jump Portal, decided what needed to be changed and then implemented it as a Jump Bridge, and the way fuelling is handled was not something we wanted to change.
Well, in this case, would it not be logical to have it operate in a similar way to the portal generator it's self? ie. Activate the module at the POS and it remain open for a period of time? This could potentially kill two birds with one stone, both the issue of fuel, as the jump would be initiated by a single person, and the administrative side
Simply an option for consistency.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.07.19 14:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cardice Makar
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Edited by: CCP Greyscale on 19/07/2007 10:32:42 As Matthew rightly guesses, the Jump Bridge design is designed along the lines of the Titan Jump Portal rather than Jump Drives, and in that case the fuel is taken from the object creating the jump link rather than the object doing the jumping. We took the mechanics from the Jump Portal, decided what needed to be changed and then implemented it as a Jump Bridge, and the way fuelling is handled was not something we wanted to change.
Well, in this case, would it not be logical to have it operate in a similar way to the portal generator it's self? ie. Activate the module at the POS and it remain open for a period of time? This could potentially kill two birds with one stone, both the issue of fuel, as the jump would be initiated by a single person, and the administrative side
Simply an option for consistency.
Well, you can already replicate this more or less by leaving it offline when not in use The way portals work is that they eat like 500 stront or something when you switch them on, and THEN consume racial isotopes for each ship jumping through.
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Cardice Makar
Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.19 17:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Well, you can already replicate this more or less by leaving it offline when not in use The way portals work is that they eat like 500 stront or something when you switch them on, and THEN consume racial isotopes for each ship jumping through.
I just meant, have it open for a period of time rather than once for each ship and only eat isotopes on opening.
Maybe you could have it dual mode [config'd by POS] "Toll Mode" where it eats isotopes out of the module/cargohold-of-jumping-ship and "Bridge Mode" where it opens for a period of time.
Just throwing ideas out there.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.19 19:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: James Duar
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Cap II Without having looked at the structure, is it possible to put fuel into the thing without roles just like corp hangars in stations? So just leave them empty of ozone, and anyone who wants to use it can put in the required amount and jump.
Yes. I believe you can allow anyone in your corp or in your alliance to add fuel, which gives you a stopgap "toll" method. I'll look into the possibility of adding a proper fee system when we have time
Taking fuel from the jumping ship would honestly be the best method for 99% of cases. There are few things without the cargo bay for it.
Actually, if you were moving a fleet through a jump bridge it would be a huge pain in the butt to pass out fuel to everyone. Having the fuel come from the ship would only be the best option if you basically want everyone and their mother to be constantly using them on their own, which I don't think is really the intended purpose. ----------------------------------------------------
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Popperr
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.19 21:44:00 -
[30]
I really like these things, excellent job guys.
Just one question, is it possible, or will it be possible in the future to link allied pos? For instance that one portal belongs to alliance A and the other to alliance B?
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