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Karl Planck
Heretic University Heretic Nation
104
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:You can play the game without ever seeing anything other than the UI. One of the best PvP players I know only has a peep hole in his layout of overview, comms, watchlist, locked targts (etc etc etc) dialogs. All his actions are done in the UI space, not the graphics space.
He obviously doesn't use the d-scanner actively then, or any scanner for that matter. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
253
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Ok lets assume I have undocked and flown a ship. What about inflight physics is 'submarine' like ? could someone expand on the concept for me please?
In space there is almost zero friction so a ship would effectively never slow down once it has accelerated, unless a force is applied to do so. There is no realistic upper maximum velocity in space (barring teh speed of light), keep applying relative force and an object in space keeps accelerating. Objects in space dont self level to any plane when stopped.
Eve physics are not newtonian physics for space.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
500
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Winters Chill wrote:Bienator II wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, full Newtonian physics would be a bit of a pain to work with. Let alone if you bring relativity into play. you are so wrong... No he's not. So you think it would be easy, to simulate 7000+ solar systems ... topic was submarines, speak: eve's flight model. not a particle simulation at that granularity.
Steve Ronuken wrote:with the simulated gravity of every said object influencing every ship floating in space along with orbits/newtonian mechanics for ships, and player owned installations?
its not a simulation, its still a game. You don't have to do n-body interaction to put a semi-realistic flight model into a game. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
58
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
ok the whole empty no friction talk is sad, your slowing its not space its called thrusters, your ship dose that not the magic "eve space gravy" |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
223
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:They explained the sound thing already, its piped in so we don't go mad. Ah, that's where the sound comes from. So some part of our ships' CPUs are dedicated to simulating appropriate swooshy, zappy and kablooey noises for us. Brilliant! No joke, makes sense that some noises would be a help to a space pilot. Humans expect noise when physical events happen.
(I guess that also means that each accel gate has a theme song? That your ship's CPU plays to get you in the mood for some battle? Seems like it-- accel gate hijacks my jukebox and dumps my personal playlist every time I activate one!) |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
I will make an alt called Marko Ramius and I'll speak on Eve voice with Scottish accented Russian. |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
223
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
ALLAARRRMMM!!!
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Mirajane Cromwell
34
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Posted - 2012.01.11 19:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Winters Chill wrote:Bienator II wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, full Newtonian physics would be a bit of a pain to work with. Let alone if you bring relativity into play. you are so wrong... No he's not. So you think it would be easy, to simulate 7000+ solar systems with orbiting bodies all being tracked by the server, with the simulated gravity of every said object influencing every ship floating in space along with orbits/newtonian mechanics for ships, and player owned installations? So much could go wrong with this, this game would be unplayable and it would be a bugger to budget cpu cycles for as you would add too many new calculations to simulate a newtonian world. tl;dr: Get out of town. Ever heard of Frontier: First Encounters (also known as Elite 3)? It had newtonian physics for all star systems and that game simulated whole milky way galaxy, ie. about 2 billion star systems and player could visit any of them - in star systems the planets orbited star, moons orbited planets and mass and gravity was calculated for ships. It was pretty amazing for a game released in the 90's and if I remember right, the whole game was in one 1.44Mb disk. If a game that old could do this on those old computers, certainly today's servers are capable of it. Besides, planets, moons, stations etc. don't move in Eve so the simulation would have to apply only ships.
Anyway, while the newtonian physics was cool in FFE, the combat was quite the opposite - ships flying at speeds of 0.5c first trying to match the speeds and then trying to hit each others during the fractions of second when you pass the enemy was not fun. Most of the time you missed. Going past the enemy 10 000 km/s, firing guns, turning around, accelerating towards new vector that takes you bit closer and at bit slower speed on next pass and hope you hit this time - that's the combat like with newtonian physics if there's no limits on acceleration.
If you set up a limit to acceleration, then you get a combat like in I-War games (Independence War I and II) - f.ex. you could let the ship fly to one direction and then roll ship 180 degrees and shoot the bad guy who was following you (turrets in those games didn't rotate like in Eve, you rotated the whole ship). That game also had pretty cool "warping" engine. See an example video.
Combat in newtonian physics would be more difficult than with the current submarine simulation. |
Telegram Sam
The Drones Club
223
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Posted - 2012.01.11 19:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Well .. how you accelerate and how you de-accelerate .. You switch on the thrusters and move .. you switch them off you slowing down.
Just expanding on that. There is so little friction in space that the deceleration would not be noticeable. Also turning shouldn't need to take so long, simply just spin the ship then fire thrusters in the opposite direction to stop. .... or all ships could just be spheres that move in any direction without turning and fire in all directions. Jumpgate (the old one now called "Jumpgate Classic") is exactly like this. Turn off thrusters and your ship continues going in a straight line. Meanwhile you can be rotating it like a ball turret without affecting your line of travel. There literally isn't any 'up' or 'down' in that game. Every time you rotate your ship a little, your 'up' (i.e. the direction toward the top of your cabin) is pointing to a different part of space. |
Adonlude
ANZAC ACADEMY
5
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Posted - 2012.01.11 23:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Arethanerielle Xhiril wrote: so, imagine, two ships approaching each other with thousands of kilometers per second: any projectile fired on each other would result in an absolute brutal-*******-overkill due to the absurd amounts of kinetic energy released. Thus, we wouldn't have or lovely drawn out slugfests we like so much.
So yeah, underwater naval warfare it is.
In that scenerio Amarr weapons would suck since lasers always move at the speed of light no matter how fast the source is moving.
Its funny that possibly the very first space ship video game, Asteriods, got the physics right and EvE did not. |
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J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
79
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Posted - 2012.01.11 23:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Would be interesting if engagements actually took place with opposing fleets light minutes apart, where even lasers travelling at the speed of light would take minutes to arrive at their target. You'd have to actually calculate where your target will be in space in the next few minutes and this gives them time to maneuver to mess up your calculations. Then there would be a technological breakthrough involving stealthed drones closing in on the enemy fleet and communicating the updated ship locations and vectors by FTL gravity pulses ... oh wait, that's the Honor Harrington universe :P |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.01.11 23:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Adonlude wrote:Arethanerielle Xhiril wrote: so, imagine, two ships approaching each other with thousands of kilometers per second: any projectile fired on each other would result in an absolute brutal-*******-overkill due to the absurd amounts of kinetic energy released. Thus, we wouldn't have or lovely drawn out slugfests we like so much.
So yeah, underwater naval warfare it is. In that scenerio Amarr weapons would suck since lasers always move at the speed of light no matter how fast the source is moving. Its funny that possibly the very first space ship video game, Asteriods, got the physics right and EvE did not.
Pew, Pew, Pew... Veldspar!!!!.... pew pew pew.... *computer garble*.... Game Over... hehe.
I agree we are doing some odd things in "space" but pay no mind to "purist" thought, EVE is Fluidic Space, the region we are in is a "cluster" of stars inside a "big fluidic matter cloud" and it has a natural boyancy and a relativistic plain of settle due to the gravity wells induced by the matter in regard to... *cough cough*... ok, find it's submarines.... Arrrugggaaaa... Arrruuggaaa... Dive dive dive!!!
...and Pinning/Toggle must be restored (paraphrase of Cicero). |
Jenshae Chiroptera
417
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Posted - 2012.01.12 03:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aurelius Valentius wrote:I agree we are doing some odd things in "space" but pay no mind to "purist" thought, EVE is Fluidic Space, the region we are in is a "cluster" of stars inside a "big fluidic matter cloud" and it has a natural boyancy and a relativistic plain of settle due to the gravity wells induced by the matter in regard to... *cough cough*... ok, find it's submarines.... Arrrugggaaaa... Arrruuggaaa... Dive dive dive!!! The worm hole from Earth's galazy happened to take a swing through Star Trek Voyager's sector D to pass into Fluidic Space? We better watch out for Species 8472!
Arethanerielle Xhiril wrote:in the frictionless vauum of real space, there is no upper speed limit an accelerating object would reach (besides obviously the lightspeed-barrier). A ship running it's thrusters or any other propulsion system would simply keep accelerating unitl it's fuel runs out (or until it reaches relativistic speed).
so, imagine, two ships approaching each other with thousands of kilometers per second: any projectile fired on each other would result in an absolute brutal-*******-overkill due to the absurd amounts of kinetic energy released. Thus, we wouldn't have or lovely drawn out slugfests we like so much.
So yeah, underwater naval warfare it is.
If it hit. Computers could probably detect it and alter cause slightly changing the vector quite dramatically. You should see the documentary about them making an impact on a comet to study it, took freaking ages and two attempts to get it right and that comet was moving in a predictable orbit at a known speed. Ideas & Stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -áStatus: Going phishing. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
675
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Posted - 2012.01.12 04:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Why do people so often refer to EVE as a submarine sim ? liquid space physics. Maybe the Higgs field is very very dense in this area of space. :)
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Dersk
90040045
18
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Posted - 2012.01.12 04:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Adonlude wrote:In that scenerio Amarr weapons would suck since lasers always move at the speed of light no matter how fast the source is moving.
If Duck Dogers of the 24th and a half century travels half the speed of light one direction, and a three legged chicken travels half the speed of light in the opposite direction, then the chicken is immune to lasers. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
164
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Posted - 2012.01.12 11:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
I thought the fluff said it was down to the warp cores causing the drag? FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
64
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Posted - 2012.01.12 11:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
One thing is certain this is Si-Fi so it probably has little to do with wizards or magic.
Tho I wouldn't rule dragons out yet..........
May be if we pray and make sacrifices to the great water being Cthulhu, R'lyeh's foul fluid like influence will subside. |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
288
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Posted - 2012.01.12 12:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:One thing is certain this is Si-Fi so it probably has little to do with wizards or magic.
Tho I wouldn't rule dragons out yet..........
May be if we pray and make sacrifices to the great water being Cthulhu, R'lyeh's foul fluid like influence will subside. Abdul Alhazred, is that you?! |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
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Posted - 2012.01.12 12:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:One thing is certain this is Si-Fi so it probably has little to do with wizards or magic.
Tho I wouldn't rule dragons out yet..........
May be if we pray and make sacrifices to the great water being Cthulhu, R'lyeh's foul fluid like influence will subside.
we have rogue drones.. thats probably closest we can get to dragons. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
64
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Posted - 2012.01.12 12:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Rouge drones are not dragons they are the space Buffalo. You hunt the Cosmic Tatanka and skin them to make the clothing of your ship and grind there bones to make your ships. You must thank them for there sacrifice and use all there parts or you will bring great shame to your ancestors.
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J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars IMPERIAL LEGI0N
76
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Posted - 2012.01.12 13:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
Under water nobody can hear you scream.
In space nobody can hear you scream.
Do I need to say more J'Poll Recruiter - Imperial Legi0n
As a finishing touch, God created the Dutch |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
85
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Posted - 2012.01.12 15:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, full Newtonian physics would be a bit of a pain to work with. Let alone if you bring relativity into play.
Let me be able to stop time for every one as I fly by.
Time can resume now. |
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
5
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Posted - 2012.01.12 17:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:You can play the game without ever seeing anything other than the UI. One of the best PvP players I know only has a peep hole in his layout of overview, comms, watchlist, locked targts (etc etc etc) dialogs. All his actions are done in the UI space, not the graphics space.
Nice! IFR style PvP.
IFR for Intrument Flight Rules (check google, you will see what I am talking about) |
Jenshae Chiroptera
421
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: Tho I wouldn't rule dragons out yet.......... .
Breaking News:
CCP after reading the Dragons of Pern series by Anne Mc Affrey have bought the copy right use of the material to include in their Dust 514 game. Reasons cited were, "These dragons were genetically grown and therefore fit into a Sci-Fi universe." Ideas & Stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -áStatus: Going phishing. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2752
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gravity Pull drives causes the ships to have 'friction.'
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Daneirkus Auralex
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:27:00 -
[56] - Quote
I, for one, would welcome new/better physics and ship controls. |
Scortched Merc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
Where the hell is my periscope?
Torpedoes level 5 FTW E .-+ ` ' / -+. F Your tears fuel my internet spaceship. |
Jaffari Sin
0
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
Telegram Sam wrote:ALLAARRRMMM!!!
Das Boot? Great movie |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle
234
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Posted - 2012.01.12 20:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/ + Orbiter Multiplayer Mod + Combat Mod = most fun I have had in a very long time. |
Vaurion Infara
Beyond Divinity Inc Excuses.
11
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Posted - 2012.01.14 16:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Actual submariner here. (sonar tech) There are actually quite a few parallels to submarine combat with Eve combat. We use TMA, tactical motion analysis, to get ranges and courses for contacts. We use things like transversal velocity, range rate, and optimal ranges for weapons. I can actually apply navy solution formulas to Eve for fun. |
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