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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Fenix Yachim
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:52:00 -
[1]
Since I work with stock market investments and trading in the real world, I thought I'd make a few ISK in Eve as well.
One behaviour that just cost me 10m ISK is very different from any real world market.
I was changing an order price and forgot one digit. It was sold for 1 144 393 instead of the intended 11 443 930. Sure I am dumb and should be penalised for that.
But, in any real world market I would have gotten the price bidded from the highest bidder, in this case some 9m, not the price I entered. In RL a limit order is always just a minimum limit and not an absolute price.
Hope you can reimburse and more importantly, change the Eve market to become more RL realistic.
I also think price changing behaviour should be changed. If you sell something for 10m you should be forced to make price changes that are worth a certain minimum fractional percent of the total value. It should not be possible to change an order from 10m to 10m + 0.01 ISK. In RL stock markets, there is always a threshold like that.
Best regards and thanks for an interesting game
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:20:00 -
[2]
No reimbursement on that. Just don't do it again.
Think of it as "the station broker working in his own best interest" - he just made a big profit off of you.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:31:00 -
[3]
YAY! It's been like 5 days since we've had one of these threads... needed a new one!
This isn't a vendor system, it is a broker system. And it is not modeled on the NYSE. It's a survival of the fittest system. If you do something stupid you pay for it.
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:36:00 -
[4]
The system is a bit borked in my opinion. Yes it is a broker system, but in a broker system the broker sells to the current highest buy price that meets your minimum sell price. We pay a brokers fee and as such in the very least it should work as a broker system.
Silly mistake that I think most of us have made. Bad luck and just try learn from it.
/Eefrit
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Eefrit The system is a bit borked in my opinion. Yes it is a broker system, but in a broker system the broker sells to the current highest buy price that meets your minimum sell price. We pay a brokers fee and as such in the very least it should work as a broker system.
Silly mistake that I think most of us have made. Bad luck and just try learn from it.
/Eefrit
Point. I hadn't even remembered that we paid an explicit "Broker's Fee" per se - I just lumped it into total tax.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:17:00 -
[6]
If you mean to sell an item for 1000isk and instead tell your broker to sell it 100isk then the broker goes out... raises his hand and says "SELLING AT 100". The highest priced order broker is then the first to be asked if he wants to buy it at 100. He of course says yes and buys it.
Granted the brokers are stupid... but that's just how it is. It can happen with an extra 0 on buy orders as well. But it's consistent, if you screw up you lose out. Market Darwinism.
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Nalar Marnith
Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:41:00 -
[7]
Check and double check. It makes your eyes bleed sometimes, but it saves a lot of money.
As an aside, how's about a confirm button on cancel order? Due to bleeding eyes and twitching fingers (my precious), the cancel order gets clicked instead of modify order. It's a serious PITA. Anywho, I'm tried and feeling a bit whiney. Time for coffee methinks.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:04:00 -
[8]
A warning box comes up saying your order is XX% under the market value, and should be the point where you click that something is wrong. Of course, if you drop something on your keyboard, and it bounces off the ENTER key and then comes back down onto the ENTER key again, then unfortunately it invalidates that warning window. We should have 5 security checks before any order below/above market value is allowed through Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Nalar Marnith
Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 27/07/2007 00:30:51 Yeah, that's saved me before.
I accidentally did a mega oversell on something once when I was (really) tired, be nice to be warned about that. Still, hardly essential.
A quick glance at the % above or below market rate seems to solve most issues. Although when you're rolling through a stack of orders it's easy to get complacent.
Edit: Also, someone that works with stock markets should know that 'unlogical' is an illogical spelling.
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Hanoi Hana
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 27/07/2007 01:07:37 Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 27/07/2007 01:07:14 Man, if I ever meet the actual station broker during station walking, I'm going to shake his hand for all the ISK he's given me. Then I'm going to punch him in the face for all the ISK he took from me when I set a Battleship sell order but forgot the decimal, so I got hit with a 30mil tax. Then I'm going to shake his hand again for selling me somebody's 180mil module that they typed 18mil on. :)
By the way, there is a name now for Bleeding Eyes Market Syndrome, or BEMS. At least I feel good when I KNOW that I'm not going to get screwed, accomplished by waiting for the market info to update and confirm that I entered the price correctly in relation to the other prices.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fenix Yachim It should not be possible to change an order from 10m to 10m + 0.01 ISK. In RL stock markets, there is always a threshold like that.
Not really.
Other than that, pretty much what everyone else said, except for Ricdics, who forgets that there are no warning boxes on the "modify order" screen.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression! |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ricdics A warning box comes up saying your order is XX% under the market value, and should be the point where you click that something is wrong. Of course, if you drop something on your keyboard, and it bounces off the ENTER key and then comes back down onto the ENTER key again, then unfortunately it invalidates that warning window. We should have 5 security checks before any order below/above market value is allowed through
But really, how incredibly clumsy and stupid could someone be to drop heavy bouncing objects on their keyboard after clicking sell/buy order and before entering any information?
I seriously doubt it could happen... and even if it did, no one would be stupid enough to admit to it. I mean, talk about embarassing. Telling everyone you're that inept.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:07:00 -
[13]
Good point Prophet :)
Still, everyone makes mistakes. All you can do is learn from it. Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ricdics Good point Prophet :)
Still, everyone makes mistakes. All you can do is learn from it.
Well, you could cry your eyes out on the forum... and call for the deaths of employees of ccp for your own stupidity.
Though I doubt anyone would actually do that...
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Algorithm 5
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 05:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hanoi Hana Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 27/07/2007 01:07:37 Edited by: Hanoi Hana on 27/07/2007 01:07:14 Man, if I ever meet the actual station broker during station walking, I'm going to shake his hand for all the ISK he's given me. Then I'm going to punch him in the face for all the ISK he took from me when I set a Battleship sell order but forgot the decimal, so I got hit with a 30mil tax. Then I'm going to shake his hand again for selling me somebody's 180mil module that they typed 18mil on. :)
By the way, there is a name now for Bleeding Eyes Market Syndrome, or BEMS. At least I feel good when I KNOW that I'm not going to get screwed, accomplished by waiting for the market info to update and confirm that I entered the price correctly in relation to the other prices.
I once accidentally sold some scourge missiles for 70,000 each instead of 70 each, because I'd been listing a whole ton of shield mods and such that had a 50k or 80k price tag at the same time
Broker's fee? 200m isk :(
Fortunately for me, I'd done it in an Alliance-owned outpost station, and the manager of the station was kind enough to refund me the broker's fee.
Phew...
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.07.27 06:05:00 -
[16]
Yup, you hit one of the bugs which is the bane of software developers everywhere, the one issue that will always win out over any well-designed piece of software to bring it crashing down.
Operator Error. Improve Market Competition! |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.27 07:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Taikun on 27/07/2007 07:29:57
Originally by: Ricdics A warning box comes up saying your order is XX% under the market value, and should be the point where you click that something is wrong. Of course, if you drop something on your keyboard, and it bounces off the ENTER key and then comes back down onto the ENTER key again, then unfortunately it invalidates that warning window. We should have 5 security checks before any order below/above market value is allowed through
The reponse from the Devs on having the defualt selction as 'yes' rather than no was:
"The problem you have described as an intended game feature, and not a bug."
So according to CCP, spamming people with invites in the hopes they would accidentally accept them so you can kill them was an "intended game feature" when it was first implemented. The issue is the same. The warning box defaulted to 'yes' in that case, just like in the example you put forward Ricdic.
Public preasure forced CCP to change it, and it could on this issue as well. Except people who make a living of exploiting the game mechanics voice opposition to this minor change.
I think Shardales suggestion is very rash however.
Originally by: Shadarle call for the deaths of employees of ccp
That is going over the top. Not unexpected though given the tone of his posts.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2007.07.27 08:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ambo on 27/07/2007 08:09:43
Originally by: Fenix Yachim Since I work with stock market investments and trading in the real world, I thought I'd make a few ISK in Eve as well.
One behaviour that just cost me 10m ISK is very different from any real world market.
I was changing an order price and forgot one digit. It was sold for 1 144 393 instead of the intended 11 443 930. Sure I am dumb and should be penalised for that.
But, in any real world market I would have gotten the price bidded from the highest bidder, in this case some 9m, not the price I entered. In RL a limit order is always just a minimum limit and not an absolute price.
Hope you can reimburse and more importantly, change the Eve market to become more RL realistic.
I don't care about this one tbh. Just be careful, I think the devs have better things to do with thier time.
Quote:
I also think price changing behaviour should be changed. If you sell something for 10m you should be forced to make price changes that are worth a certain minimum fractional percent of the total value. It should not be possible to change an order from 10m to 10m + 0.01 ISK. In RL stock markets, there is always a threshold like that.
Yes please! The constant 0.01 game really ****es me off, I almost always increase/decrease by at least 1% of the item cost. Again though, it's not exactly a massive priority imo.
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.27 08:35:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Robacz on 27/07/2007 08:35:04
I wish they added the confirmation window on modify dialog. That is all they should change imo, everything else is fine. It happens to me quite a lot, that I press ENTER accidentaly on modify dialog, becouse I am typing numbers on numeric keyboard and I am used to do it without looking at it. So sometimes happens that I accidentaly hit ENTER on bottom right corner of keyboard. Usually price is typed correctly, but when it is not... there goes my ISK.
However as some pointed out in other threads about this problem, that window should be optional, becouse there are traders who manage numerous orders under market averages so for them would be confirm on every modification quite annoying feature.
_________ Always buying: pirate implants & high-end hardwirings Tech2 distribution service: 8 regions covered |
Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.27 12:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Taikun
The reponse from the Devs on having the defualt selction as 'yes' rather than no was:
"The problem you have described as an intended game feature, and not a bug."
So according to CCP, spamming people with invites in the hopes they would accidentally accept them so you can kill them was an "intended game feature" when it was first implemented. The issue is the same. The warning box defaulted to 'yes' in that case, just like in the example you put forward Ricdic.
Public preasure forced CCP to change it, and it could on this issue as well. Except people who make a living of exploiting the game mechanics voice opposition to this minor change.
No, I don't think it's fair to put both of these in the same box. The gang/invite spamming thing was defaulting to yes as per intended feature, but then it was exploited by players trying to trick people and the likes, that's the reason for the change to those features.
In this case, the only way you can fall for something like this, is due to your own personal mistake, there is no third party player influence. That, is why CCP aren't changing it. They refuse to allow you to exploit their game, or make it difficult on other players, but they won't turn the game into a safety net sandbox.
CCP have protected us from others in this game wanting to do us harm. Your expected change, is asking CCP to protect the player from themselves.
This, IMO, is unacceptable. CCP already bowed down with the first change (actually putting the warning box in), and then 1 person magically presses enter twice, and feels yet a second security measure should be put in, to protect the user from himself on two levels..
Really, if your change went through, how long would it take before someone complained that they set the order and pressed ok, and then bumped their mouse and it clicked the ok button. This person wants a confirmation after the confirmation ok box, just in case they drop something on the mouse after pressing enter on the keyboard. Really, when does it stop. I don't want to play a game like that, setting and managing market orders is already tedious as it is thank you very much.
Quote:
I think Shardales suggestion is very rash however.
Originally by: Shadarle call for the deaths of employees of ccp
That is going over the top. Not unexpected though given the tone of his posts.
Funnily enough, he referred to that as a mockup to your post on the issue where you said pretty much the same thing. Go and read it if you don't remember (if it hasn't already been moderated) Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.27 12:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 27/07/2007 08:35:04
I wish they added the confirmation window on modify dialog. That is all they should change imo, everything else is fine. It happens to me quite a lot, that I press ENTER accidentaly on modify dialog, becouse I am typing numbers on numeric keyboard and I am used to do it without looking at it. So sometimes happens that I accidentaly hit ENTER on bottom right corner of keyboard. Usually price is typed correctly, but when it is not... there goes my ISK.
However as some pointed out in other threads about this problem, that window should be optional, becouse there are traders who manage numerous orders under market averages so for them would be confirm on every modification quite annoying feature.
I don't have a problem with this specifically being implemented, to be in line with the creation of a brand new order. I am against the "default enter key to no" secondary whine being made in the thread Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.07.27 17:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ricdics
Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 27/07/2007 08:35:04
I wish they added the confirmation window on modify dialog. That is all they should change imo, everything else is fine. It happens to me quite a lot, that I press ENTER accidentaly on modify dialog, becouse I am typing numbers on numeric keyboard and I am used to do it without looking at it. So sometimes happens that I accidentaly hit ENTER on bottom right corner of keyboard. Usually price is typed correctly, but when it is not... there goes my ISK.
However as some pointed out in other threads about this problem, that window should be optional, becouse there are traders who manage numerous orders under market averages so for them would be confirm on every modification quite annoying feature.
I don't have a problem with this specifically being implemented, to be in line with the creation of a brand new order. I am against the "default enter key to no" secondary whine being made in the thread
Indeed. I'm all for optional warning boxes to protect lazy people. But I don't want to be punished because someone can't help dropping staplers on their malfunctioning keyboards.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.28 04:02:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Taikun on 28/07/2007 04:03:16
Originally by: Ricdics This, IMO, is unacceptable. CCP already bowed down with the first change (actually putting the warning box in), and then 1 person magically presses enter twice, and feels yet a second security measure should be put in, to protect the user from himself on two levels..
No, it does not protect on two level. My cheage would protect all users equitably fromn entering the wrong values. The purpose of the warnig box's implementation in the first place.
Right now, it can only be described as a sloppy fix.
Originally by: Ricdics
Originally by: "Taikun"
I think Shardales suggestion is very rash however.
Originally by: Shadarle call for the deaths of employees of ccp
That is going over the top. Not unexpected though given the tone of his posts.
Funnily enough, he referred to that as a mockup to your post on the issue where you said pretty much the same thing. Go and read it if you don't remember (if it hasn't already been moderated)
I would appricate it if you didn't spead falicies and lies about my posts. I have claimed on several occassions that we (the community) would be better off if incompetent employees died or any other number of events that would remove them from their job. (Such as retire, quit, move away, or (my favourite) sprout wings and fly away etc)
To somehow claim I have EVER actively called for the deaths of ANYONE is not only wrong, but offensive and I expect you to research your own claims and print a retraction.
Activly threatening the lives of another individual is morally reprehensible and a CRIME where I live.
Be careful with your accusations in here Ricdic. All fun and games stop when you go that little bit too far.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.28 04:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shadarle I don't want to be punished because someone can't help dropping staplers on their malfunctioning keyboards.
Because you want to capitailise off their misfortune.
I know your business model and motives all too well.
Your position is NOT about game improvements. It is about protecting your corrupt business model that depends upon the game interface failing others.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Caligulus
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.07.28 08:05:00 -
[25]
I'd settle for a larger font to see the zeros or better yet, some comma separators (IE 10000000 <-now or 10,000,000 <- instead) .
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.07.28 08:07:00 -
[26]
OK,,, I'm only just starting to get a little tired of the same old arguments on this. So how's this. When you make that extra zero typo in real life, who covers you? The law certainly doesnt. You make that extra zero in a contract, and it goes through, it's done, unless the person whom the contract is made for agrees to renegotiate.
Go on, do a little bit of research. Doctors have gone down for it, prescribing 10 times too much of a particular medecine and killing a patient. I've suffered from it even working in the days of a supermarket, somebodies finger has slipped and the price on a 24 pack of coke is $1.00, not $10.00. Because our ticket price is there, we were *obliged* to sell them for $1.00 when someone went through the register and pointed it out. Yes it scanned for $10 at POS, but the ticketed price had the final word. There went $50 of stock for $5.
Leave it. I've never done a typo, it's not hard to take a little time and care. As I said, operator error is something CCP can never fix. Improve Market Competition! |
Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.28 09:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Leave it. I've never done a typo,
Just because you haven't done it yourself does not make it a non-issue.
Using your logic, POS bowling should be allowed because you haven't done it or been a victim of it.
The eve-verse does not revolve around your personal experiences.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.28 09:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Taikun
I would appricate it if you didn't spead falicies and lies about my posts. I have claimed on several occassions that we (the community) would be better off if incompetent employees died or any other number of events that would remove them from their job. (Such as retire, quit, move away, or (my favourite) sprout wings and fly away etc)
To somehow claim I have EVER actively called for the deaths of ANYONE is not only wrong, but offensive and I expect you to research your own claims and print a retraction.
Activly threatening the lives of another individual is morally reprehensible and a CRIME where I live.
Be careful with your accusations in here Ricdic. All fun and games stop when you go that little bit too far.
Taikun
Claiming one would be better off if incompetent employee's died, and taking offence to being caught up on "calling for the deaths of employee's" is a pretty fine line.
Personally, I took major offence at what you said in your other post (first part of mine), and find it to be very similar to what Shadarle posted. I guess it is subjective as to what you find offensive and what I find offensive, but I merely quoted his post and said "where you said pretty much the same thing"
As far as I am concerned, both are quite similar and completely uncalled for. As one of these employee's, I would be both disgusted and offended under both examples.
If you walked up to a shopkeeper in real life and said:
"The world would be better if you were dead"
would that be ok compared to:
"I hope you die" ?
Either way this will be deleted as off-topic. I have nothing against you Taikun, I just think there is an invisible boundary, and a lot of your posts seem to go well over that boundary into completely unnecessary and highly offensive areas. I think that is one of the main reasons a lot of your ideas get flamed to hell. Not necessarily because they are bad ideas (some are quite good), but because of the way you express them.
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Taikun
Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.07.28 10:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ricdic I have nothing against you Taikun, I just think there is an invisible boundary, and a lot of your posts seem to go well over that boundary into completely unnecessary and highly offensive areas.
Nor have I anything (beyond expressed statements contrary) against you.
My posts I agree you may deem offensive if skimmed over and fail to understand the language in its complete context. Many people have had difficulty in assertaining the intreciacies of the written English language. (My spelling doesn't help)
But I encourage you to read carefully and understand the comeplete context of what I was saying.
I never 'called' for the deaths of anyone. Only speculated on how our gaming lives would be better if circumstances were different.
The moral outrage is of your own creation by your set of standards. I have no control over that.
If perhaps you asked me if I would be happy if a CCP employee died... I asure you I answer I would be upset and saddened for their families. Noboby asked me that and have assumed I would be gleeful. This is wrong.
Taikun -----------------------------------
For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good. |
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.28 10:56:00 -
[30]
Ok, now that this is settled, group hug, and lets change topic before we both get perma-banned
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