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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
ChapterMaster
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:00:00 -
[391]
Originally by: IPyric Can CCP move all SP's relating to Amarr over to Minmitar skills for thos that dont want to be amarr after this change ?
I second this, 1 SP or any other race is as good as 2 Amarr SP. it boggles the mind.
for Amarr to succeed, they might as well skip lasers, and go straight to Missiles.
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Yukiyo
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:00:00 -
[392]
It shouldnt matter how much cap another ship has.
Are you trying to tell me that all our ships are going to be retrofited so we all have sensors which tell us how much cap our target has?
How will my Nos know how much cap the target ship has otherwise?
Can i have a read out of that?
Will all these extra calculations cause yet more damn lag?
These contrived mechanics make suspension of disbelief impossible.
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:02:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Ovno ConSyquence Am I the only person who thinks the nos change buffs the amarr?
Take an apoc for example...
Fit 2 x lar IIs and 6 x mega pulse IIs and you'll find your cap sits around zero after a couple of cycles (might need a mwd in there to really gimp your cap)
Once in this capless state you can use your 2 heavy nos to your hearts content
Then add a cap injector probably to make sure you can still fight if theres no cap available for you to nos (probably with 400's instead of 800's so your cap doesn't go too high)
And there we go a nice short ranged nos gank and tank ship...
Or have I got it wrong somehow?
Nope, completelly agree with you. These nos changes are a huge boost to Amarr laser ships.
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Trade JCache
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:03:00 -
[394]
Thanks for removing half of the T2 laser vessels. I really had a hard time deciding which one to skill, but now things are so much easier for me. The Damnation was(!) a command ship with the option to use almost any weapon system, now it is supposed to be just another armor tanked missile boat... not that we were missing that kind of ship. What the hell was wrong with the option to fit missiles or lasers?! Limiting a ship to a weapon system that most people of that race don't use for a good reason is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen. Or can we expect a Nighthawk/Vuture with lasers to compensate that loss?
With all my skill plans turned into dust some brilliant minds tend to say adapt or die. Considering the given options dying sounds like a winner to me...
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Crazy Yuri
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:03:00 -
[395]
Just wondering, will there be any T1 Amarr missile boats other than the inqusitor to bridge the gap between frigate and Khanid Mk II? (other than fly Caldari).
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Vanst Keal
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:09:00 -
[396]
Edited by: Vanst Keal on 31/07/2007 10:09:38
Originally by: Zerv MAKE NOS TRANSFER AMOUNT DEPENDENT ON SIG RADIUS.
Quoting for page 15.
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:10:00 -
[397]
Originally by: ChapterMaster
Originally by: LvxOccvlta Edited by: LvxOccvlta on 31/07/2007 10:04:58 If this NOS nerf comes about, we might see a resurgence of 100-man Frigate Gangs. Battleships will become limp like putty against a group of tacklers.
And it will have to be 100 non-amarr frigates as well, because under the next round of restrictions, all Amarr ships will self destruct 10 mins after leaving the station.
Can I have your stuff then?
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Deva Blackfire
Citadel of dark arts
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:12:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Holy Cheater Nos-nerf means you kill 4 ships at a time (dominix, myrmidon, curse, pilgrim). Congratulations, CCP. It is a sad tendency to kill solo ships one by one. In a half of year PvP will turn into F1-F8 with a latency of 10 min in a lagged-fleet fights, I think.
Stop crying.
You know how "solo pvp curse combat" looks like now? Set orbit 18-20km, f1-f8 (1-4 launcher+nosf, 5-7 3x damps, 8- scrambler), send drones, go afk, collect loot. If your cap is getting low nosf sth else (can be NPC). If you cant kill target, recall drones warp away (not like you were hit thx to damps anyways).
I gladly welcome back old f1-f8 ganks vs tank slugfests rather than f1-f8 "cant touch me i kill you" ganks. At least when you commit to combat "old style" you risk your ship.
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The Amarrien
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:15:00 -
[399]
WTF!!
They turning all my amarr ships into rocket ship!
i have 0 SP in missiles.
Brilliant job
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:19:00 -
[400]
Dear god after reading this thread I now know Amarr were not underpowered it's just most amarr pilots are frickin idiots this is not a nerf to most amarr ships listen to the 10% of amarr pilots who have tried it on test server and are trying to point out it still works well.
Theres even 2 posts on how to setup and use the curse so it still wtfbbq's most things you just cannot set orbit at 25km start the mods and go wipe the drool off your chin anymore and come back to a dead hostile.
And HAM's I saw somone say there not used because of there short range while this is technically right it's also *******s there not used because putting short range weapons on slow unagile sheild tanking ships is stupid HAM's are just pointless on cal ships but the sac is going to kick ass.
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:21:00 -
[401]
Originally by: ChapterMaster
Originally by: LvxOccvlta Edited by: LvxOccvlta on 31/07/2007 10:04:58 If this NOS nerf comes about, we might see a resurgence of 100-man Frigate Gangs. Battleships will become limp like putty against a group of tacklers.
And it will have to be 100 non-amarr frigates as well, because under the next round of restrictions, all Amarr ships will self destruct 10 mins after leaving the station.
BS are not supposed to be able to kill small fast ships, thats what destroyers, assault frigs, and other support ships are for. If you want to knock out inties in a BS, fit a neut, or neut drones, or all small guns, or use your brain.
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Count Hades
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:23:00 -
[402]
Originally by: R3DSKULL
Originally by: Johho Bulon It sounds like all downside and no upside once again.
Nos nerf? why not cap charge boost? make all cap charges smaller or allow some form of cap armouring with a new module? Or any one of the sensible suggestions already put forward?
But more importantly why is it always a nerf? Why always go this retrograde way about doing things? In RL if a nation develops a powerful weapon then counters are made by opposing forces, things that gradually diminish the power of the opposing weapon system, and so you get a cylce of development. In our RL history the British empire persuaded the world to nerf its battleships in 1921, except the Japanese decided to ignore this and build titanic battleships that left everyone far behind in terms of firepower, only the coming of age of carriers redressed the balance.
I understand the game balancing argument, but tbh it doesn't wash and feels totally artificial, instead of constant retrograde nerfing, why not go the evolutionary way? Produce modules that counteract overpowered game mechanics by giving power to the players to decide how to play. Because tbh as a relatively new player I look at all these great toys and instead of giving me more you are simply stealing the ones I already have and that sucks. And it isn't the nos thing in particular, I have looked back through the forums reading about nerf after nerf after nerf.
A perfect balance is not only not possible it isn't desirable, let nos be king today and let nos resists or maybe nos feedbacks be king in three months. But please stop this constant levelling because to be frank it is depressing and backwards and instead of us all looking forward to the delights a new patch brings we all dread to think that our particular specialization will be next to become teh suxxor.
And no I'm not going to threaten to quit or other silly things infact I just got a year long sub, evolve or die someone said I'll evolve, and I quite like neuts anyhow but for god sake please inspire us instead of the seemingly constant downgrading of anything that works.
I mean I can't help but pity the ammar guys who suddenly discover that their ship they have trained months to use well is gonna lose a fair chunk of pg with no upside and this is advertised as an 'interesting change' interesting as in time to sell your Amarr char and become Caldari maybe?
Anyhow I've gone on far to long.
Johho.
Umm this guy is the one you should have advising you on how to develop this game. He seems to have a clue as how to get foward progress. Im a little miffed that half my ships no longer have the option of lasers.
Im kinda miffed that as an amarr trained for two years, i have to train missle skills now. Something i never wanted to do. I think options. SO whats the backstory one day khanid came in and transformed all our ships? they were always really caldari. Nos nerf is a poor choice it needs to be redone. Nos should be changed but in an evolutionary way. And i like how CCP pulls out the nano sac. 5 lows, 5 missle turrets. Hhaha the next nano ship. I think you should nerf nano ships and make it like the old days where fast ships were intercepters. And vagabonds were mean armor tankers. MWD were created to get close range ships in close range. But i guess thats evolution or is it? Really it would be nice to see some verbal interaction in this post to not just all of us talking to you with no response. Answer for yourselves. Explain why your doing what you do. Dont we all atleast deserve a level of interactive feedback. Very disappointed with you people of late.
/signed.
Those of you not flying amarr stop telling us what you think about these changes. The changes to the Khanid ships just don't fit the philosphy of the entire amarr race and do not go with the Khanid own history. From shield to armor, and from lasers to missiles. It is so wrong in so many ways...
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Count Hades
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:24:00 -
[403]
And as for the Nos... I think there are better sollutions out there than this announced one.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:26:00 -
[404]
Great changes.
Nos is now a defensive weapon, Neuts are the offensive one. Pilots now have to use some modicum of intelligence in knowing when to apply - and to whom - nos, neuts, cap boosters and tank etc. Cap warfare just got interesting, rather than the mindless F1-F8 wait-for-the-pop easymode beforehand.
HAM/rocket damage bonus on Khanid is fine. Javelin HAMs and rockets aren't short-ranged weapons anyway, and applying the bonuses to standard missiles and heavies would obsolete Caldari missile boats, so isn't viable.
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Gabriel Karade
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:28:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Holy Cheater Nos-nerf means you kill 4 ships at a time (dominix, myrmidon, curse, pilgrim). Congratulations, CCP. It is a sad tendency to kill solo ships one by one. In a half of year PvP will turn into F1-F8 with a latency of 10 min in a lagged-fleet fights, I think.
You better point your destructive energy into fixing the lags than implementing some insane ideas.
Excuse me if it sounds too offensive, but I'm being killed by EVE's "evolution" for over half of year..
PS: Damnation now have no free pg and you adding it a launcher slot and removing 210pg..
Hi, let me introduce you to a module you may not be aware of... ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
VunnaX
Cardshark Influence
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:29:00 -
[406]
The real solution is to do nos hardpoint on ship with no NOS specialist , why curse was nerf for all man use NOS ? ! Nerf nosboat not specialist, not the recon specialist or nerf all recon ... -_-'
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:31:00 -
[407]
Edited by: N1fty on 31/07/2007 10:32:09
Originally by: Count Hades Those of you not flying amarr stop telling us what you think about these changes. The changes to the Khanid ships just don't fit the philosphy of the entire amarr race and do not go with the Khanid own history. From shield to armor, and from lasers to missiles. It is so wrong in so many ways...
Khanid have good relations to the Caldari, and as such always integrate Caldari technology into their ships. They might not fit with TRUE Amarrian philosophy, but they fit PERFECTLY with Khanid philosophy.
EDIT: Go see for yourself!
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:31:00 -
[408]
Khanid boost:
Amarr: We want versality, we are stuck to our damagetypes!1!!1
CCP: Allright you get superstrong armor tanking boats, that spam missiles so you can use all your cap on tanking, which you get a dual bonus for. We even make you faster, than closerange vessels!1!1!11
Amarr: WTF I need to train missiles, onoes i suck. This is unfair CCP!1!1! Caldari: ONOES, amarr owns us now! But we have been overal decent since beta, we never really sucked. And now we still dont really suck...
For the record im gallente and have good drone + gunnery skills and i trained light missiles lvl 5 just to fly the ares (Which sucks balls). So stop whining. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
IPyric
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:33:00 -
[409]
Re-think the Khanid ships too, if Amarr pilots wanted caldari ships they would train caldari ;/
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maGz
Invicta.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:35:00 -
[410]
NOS needed a nerf but this is just ******ation at its best.
There has been many suggestions as to how you could nerf NOS, yet you decide to go with an extremely poor and illogical solution that in reality just shows how unimaginative you are. NOS should be nerfed with tracking penalties, sig radius dependency etc., as has been described by many others in this thread. It's kinda ironic that a majority of this dev blog revolves around you actually listening to the community (re. Khanid MKII), and then at the same time you introduce changes that, while obviously satisfying the whiners, are completely out of touch with what the general consensus has been in regards to what should be done to NOS.
Might be time to actually give that whole nerf-bat a rest and maybe, just maybe, play the game, listen to the community and maybe you'll realise that the ones knowing the game best is not the ones sitting on their flat behinds up in Iceland. ____________
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:36:00 -
[411]
Originally by: IPyric Re-think the Khanid ships too, if Amarr pilots wanted caldari ships they would train caldari ;/
Learn to play the game and stop complaining!
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h3llrayser
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:37:00 -
[412]
First of all i'm a caldari pilot , i don't fly anything else but caldari but i've been in eve for a long time to notice that amar needs a boost and making them missile boats won't do that , and more , balancing the game is not about making all races the same because it's stupid to have for races if u give them the same weapons and btw short range missiles SUCK on caldari ships i don't think they wolud be any diferent on amar ships or maybe u want to turn eve into need for speed nano missile boats witch the nerfing on the nos will help alot (stupid ideea) What amar need right now is to make their lasers better or work on the ships bonuses or fitings. If u want to do something about the nos this is the way to go: if u have 2 nos on u-re ship everything is the same but if u put a third one it will be only 30% efective the 4'th only 5% Dont leave bs'es defenceles against smaller ships it's just not fair , if u are in an interceptor u can't expect to live forever or in a vaga (vaga is so popular not because it can fight so well in a battle but because it can run so efective if the ods get even close to 50/50) if u are in a fast ship it means u want to run more than fight and running won't get u any killmails that's all i have to say
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Jonny Magellan
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:38:00 -
[413]
Pick one of the following or a combo to balance NOS, they are ordered by my preference:
1.The best Nos nerf would be IMO add a charge to nos usage like cap booster. In fact make it very similiar to Cap Booster.
Might not be totally balanced, as cap booster isnt, but since it requires charges no one would whine. Kinda like us Amarr accept having gimped weapons since they use no ammo over others that do hehehe.
2.Make it hurt your max cap kinda like mwd and cap flux coil.
3.Sig radius dependant.
4.Mess around with powergrid reqs and cpu.
5.Stacking penalty.
6.% drained adjustment.
7.Increase ammount drained and activation time, add an activation energy cost. Ex: Small nosferatu atm is 3 seconds activation time and drains 8 energy with no skills. Make it like activation cost 20 energy, drains about 76 energy after 20 seconds.
Quote: I dont like the Nos change as its overly complicated and makes nos too specialized to use, more so than smartbombs and neuts.
About Khanid overall good changes. Imo a good change would be get rid of all weapon upgrades like heat sinks bla bla and make a global turret upgrade so dual weapon ships wouldnt be so gimped, fixing a whole load of ships with a simple fix.
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IPyric
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:38:00 -
[414]
Originally by: N1fty Edited by: N1fty on 31/07/2007 09:27:16 So the curse isn't as uber in solo 1v1 combat anymore, big deal. Sacri is wicked, Khanid changed breathe new life into Amarr!
Oh and I was on the test server last night, you know, actually testing the changes before I came and whined like a little girl on the forums.
I can tell you my Curse killed battleships and battlecruisers just like before. I fit one neut to kill my targets tank and nossed someone else to feed the neut. In this way I killed an Abaddon and then a Claymore. I used the Claymores cap against the Abaddon by using it to feed my neut. I enjoyed that. All the time I had enough cap to run my MWD, damps, tracking disrupters, and scram; I was even dual repping at one point when the Claymore got close.
This is just one example of what I did last night, there were many other examples of my supposedly nerfed Curse killing ships. It just took a bit of thought about who to nos and when.
So its not as easy as clicking orbit, then just setting all nos, ew, and drones on the target. Todays Curse pilot is forced to think . Good players will still be solo killing with any ship they turn their hand to; people with no skill will come whine on the forums about their mindless flavour of the month solo pvp ships being ruined. Oh well
EDIT: CCP, please ignore the whiners who want easy to fly solo ships. Veteran players like myself will always adapt to changes, and go kill the unadaptive forum whiners. Your NOS changes make complete logical sense, please keep them in. [This coming from a specialised Curse pilot with Talisman implants]
!! Duel REP and Talisman implants in a curse LOL no wonder these changes dont affect you.. you dont even know how to fit a curse.
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:47:00 -
[415]
Only one question, tell us what extra bonuses will be implemented for "NOS" ships like curse/pilgrim if you are going to nerf NOS ? There is the same sitauation regarding nerfed ECM moduls...even extra bonus for falcon/rook is worth nothing atm... maybe the better way is remove NOS, ECM and dampners in the future. What for that moduls? if all of them will be nerfed ...again.
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based on legendary XVII century Polish winged cavalry |
PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:48:00 -
[416]
Originally by: IPyric
!! Duel REP and Talisman implants in a curse LOL no wonder these changes dont affect you.. you dont even know how to fit a curse.
Translation : "OMG you don't fit your ship like every other ftm bandwagon jumper, how dare you use your brain and come up with a diferent fit?!?"
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Inflexible
InNova Tech Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:49:00 -
[417]
Very nice job CCP.
Now, if you want cripple enemy ship you need to pay for it (aka use neut). You can still use NOS to feed your tank/guns. Excellent.
Khanid ships look sexy too
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:49:00 -
[418]
Originally by: IPyric
Originally by: N1fty [This coming from a specialised Curse pilot with Talisman implants]
!! Duel REP and Talisman implants in a curse LOL no wonder these changes dont affect you.. you dont even know how to fit a curse.
Right, my cruiser which can take nos at the rate equivalent to 6 Heavy Diminishing, and Neut the cap of battleships very quickly with just one Med Neut. At the same time Dual Rep tanking...
So its not a Shield extender Nanocurse like most FOTM huggers fly, its more than able to kill battleships AND take a beating.
I fly it my way.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:52:00 -
[419]
Regarding the nos changes in terms of curse & pilgrim:
Curse will be ok, needs some modifications and will be a bit weaker in 1v1 but overall it will not break the ship.
It's a different thing for the pilgrim however. It does not have a nos range bonus (meaning its operational range is only 12k without faction gear) and is relatively slow - which makes it no good gangship. Its sole purpose is a 1v1 hunter of bigger ships (since it cannot really catch small agile craft).
Due to its low operational range it cannot use fully disabeling EW and needs to tank some of the dps of its target - and is reliant on nos to do so. It plain out does not have cap regen to tank some of the dps of its target, run scram and EW - and that is before using neuts to kill the targets remaining cap.
Cap injectors were mentioned here as solution, however this works for both sides - and the pilgrim has a cruisersized cargoroom. It will run out of breath before its target will.
My own pilgrim is sitting in my jita hangar since months, now I fear it will be a permanent placement.
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MECTO
Xenobytes Stain Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.31 10:54:00 -
[420]
Well, Whole changes are good, except the wa Curse And Pilgrim got killed, they should have a special bonus (role maybe) for unnerf it to today state of nos. !
i like new khanid ships too :) except maybe lack of dps for damnation and sacrilage in feature
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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