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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Granth Roden
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:14:00 -
[181]
Finally the Nosferatu is being looked into!
The implementation being proposed presents some problems, though.
1 - The fact that it only works if the victim has more cap has a logic, but it totally constrains pvp. It creates ridiculous situations (target hoarding cap, nosfer throwing it away). It also means it is almost useless to carry unless you got an anti-cap setup on your ship.
Make it depend on remaining target cap by all means, but not that way. Add a modifier for the ships own cap if you like (the more it has the less it drains) but make them independent.
2 - Make Nosf be dependent on target ship cap size or (cap per second) for its effect, thus effectively making it less effective for frigs and more on big ships. Nosf size would effectively "cap" that effect, thus a large nosf would take about the same from a frig as a small nosf more from cruiser and most from BS. A small nosf would take about the same from a frig, but no more from a cruiser or BS. This effectively fixes the "big nosfs pwn frigs" problem, while still keeping them viable.
3 - Add faloff modifiers to nosfs and neutralizers. Its totally ridiculous that at 20 klicks all works, and at 20 klicks + 1 centimeter it doesn't. Physics doesn't work that way and it feels wrong (same for webbers and such)
The falloff should have an important effect (start at 50% of range), but if thats not desired make the falloff about 10% of range.
Good patch everybody!
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Acacia Everto
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:19:00 -
[182]
I don't like the NOS nerf here. I could see it NOSing less as the target ran out, but not being able to NOS at all when their cap < your cap doesn't seem right. I'd suggest you look this over again and instead make it ratio based, so those running high cap need setups with NOS don't suddenly run out of cap at the worst times. I can see running my reps to be able to NOS, then a NOS cycle or two later our cap is equalized. I rep again and NOS more, but our combined cap will eventually get low enough to the point where I can't run reps, making both ships worthless defensively, but taking away an energy ship's greatest strength. The Dominix for example is a bit overpowered in that respect, but a good part of its offensive ability comes from being able to weaken enemy tanks and allow its drones to take out the target.
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Stormchanter
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:20:00 -
[183]
there's no update patch for SiSi from the current tranqility version of 35183...
How are we supposed to test this if we can't update, cause all your available SiSi patches are from some version other than the current game version
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:24:00 -
[184]
Complicated fixes ftl.
I'm all for a change to NOSes, but the procedure seems like jumping through hoops to fix a tiny, specific problem. It violates the "small and graceful" law of gaming rules:
If you can't explain it in one sentence to someone who has never played before, it's a bad rule.
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Johho Bulon
Gallente Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:25:00 -
[185]
It sounds like all downside and no upside once again.
Nos nerf? why not cap charge boost? make all cap charges smaller or allow some form of cap armouring with a new module? Or any one of the sensible suggestions already put forward?
But more importantly why is it always a nerf? Why always go this retrograde way about doing things? In RL if a nation develops a powerful weapon then counters are made by opposing forces, things that gradually diminish the power of the opposing weapon system, and so you get a cylce of development. In our RL history the British empire persuaded the world to nerf its battleships in 1921, except the Japanese decided to ignore this and build titanic battleships that left everyone far behind in terms of firepower, only the coming of age of carriers redressed the balance.
I understand the game balancing argument, but tbh it doesn't wash and feels totally artificial, instead of constant retrograde nerfing, why not go the evolutionary way? Produce modules that counteract overpowered game mechanics by giving power to the players to decide how to play. Because tbh as a relatively new player I look at all these great toys and instead of giving me more you are simply stealing the ones I already have and that sucks. And it isn't the nos thing in particular, I have looked back through the forums reading about nerf after nerf after nerf.
A perfect balance is not only not possible it isn't desirable, let nos be king today and let nos resists or maybe nos feedbacks be king in three months. But please stop this constant levelling because to be frank it is depressing and backwards and instead of us all looking forward to the delights a new patch brings we all dread to think that our particular specialization will be next to become teh suxxor.
And no I'm not going to threaten to quit or other silly things infact I just got a year long sub, evolve or die someone said I'll evolve, and I quite like neuts anyhow but for god sake please inspire us instead of the seemingly constant downgrading of anything that works.
I mean I can't help but pity the ammar guys who suddenly discover that their ship they have trained months to use well is gonna lose a fair chunk of pg with no upside and this is advertised as an 'interesting change' interesting as in time to sell your Amarr char and become Caldari maybe?
Anyhow I've gone on far to long.
Johho. ---------------
Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war. -- Ernest Hemingway |
Nicoli Voldkif
Caelli-Merced INC. Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:26:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Maybe my math sucks, but I fail to see how a 5 launcher damnation, with a dmg bonus, can outdamage a 6 launcher NH with a ROF bonus (dmg is 25%dps boost, rof is 33% rof boost). HAMs or HMs, the NH is superior DPS...
Unless you plan to make the NH complete garbage again.
The changes look awesome though, might have to train amarr so I can have a High DPS missile PvP ship with an outright insane tank.
If people thought a passive NH wa trouble, Damnations look like hell on EVE>
Its not your math it's your comparison. the Damnation is compared to the vulture/Eos/Claymore, the other Fleet command ships. So your comparison is worthless anyway.
As for the NOS changes. If your running NOS you'll want a highly unstable cap setup on your own ship, forget trying to balance your cap. Also you'll want to start spreading your NOS onto ships your not trying to kill atm, Suggest low slots being Reactor controls instead of Power Diagnostics to allow for the more PG intensive neuts. A little thought and its not hard to figure out how to work with it. -----------------------------------------------
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DEATHB1RD
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:31:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Johho Bulon for god sake please inspire us instead of the seemingly constant downgrading of anything that works.
couldn't agree more!
evolution!
new modules that counter old modules...
what you do looks like moving backwards.... make your balancing look like moving forward!
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Shoukei
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:38:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif Suggest low slots being Reactor controls instead of Power Diagnostics to allow for the more PG intensive neuts. A little thought and its not hard to figure out how to work with it.
low slots for reactor controls instead of tank on a nos boat? great suggestion, you must fly the caldari.
caldari nos boats are well known and renown throughout eve.
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Mari Onette
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:39:00 -
[189]
having had some time to think about it...
You are leaving Amarr pilots with too few turret slots in the vengeance and malediction. You should take away 1 turret slot rather then 2, allowing for more variety in fitting, and to be fair to all the people who trained up t2 lasers to pilot maledictions and vengeances, who have now been left to freeze to death in the vacuum of space.
If someone hasn't taken time to train up missiles, they are now left with a ship they have spent several million skill points to use, and they can no longer fit weapons onto it. This is really a giant kick in the balls to a lot of Amarr pilots, who will now need to train the several level 5 skills required to be an effective missile user. You're talking about over a month of training to be able to effectively use ships that were effective to begin with, even though they had some balance issues. Please note that the person who's idea you decided to use to modify Khanid ships clearly thought the same thing, and did not remove turret slots from the vengeance or the malediction in his proposed changes.
Of course, I suppose you could use a retribution or a crusader if you wanted your turrets back.... ------ I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth |
Shin Ra
Origin Unknown.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:42:00 -
[190]
There is one really REALLY bad thing with the nos changes that must be addressed. The skill "Energy Emissions Systems" reduces cap need for neuts. If the changes are implemented the way they are now, it will be MORE desirable for nos ships that use a neut or two to have this skills lower (kind of like the old Electronic warfare skill everyone kept at lvl 1). Surely something here must be addressed as having Energy Emissions System are 5 is a huge disadvantage.
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Abbadon
Caldari Pukin' Dogs D0GMA
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:48:00 -
[191]
A sad day for Amarr
We wanted more Amarr skilled pilots flying Amarr ships, not Caldari test drivers.
.
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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:50:00 -
[192]
Quit crying you big babies! Heavy Neuts stop ceptors better then a Nos anyway.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:53:00 -
[193]
Thanks for the blawg. :) Overall, my initial reaction is that the direction of the changes are mostly very promising, though I expect a lot of tweaking will need to be done.
One criticism: both Khanid and NOS changes are so large, it might have made sense to split it in two, just for the sake of clarity and organization in all the kneejerk blubbering...carefully considered feedback you're getting.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:53:00 -
[194]
While I love the changes to the Damnation's arsenal I seriously doubt taking away the grid is a good idea.
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Callthetruth
Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:54:00 -
[195]
well as a t2 amarr AF and HAC trained pilot i gotta say havent trained missile skills ( so thats on the cards) i mean the zealot, retribution etc stay as is ( CCP how about giving us some expanded amarr all round af laser platform now u nuttered the sacridege and vengence) perhaps one of hte other amarr sub groups can get their own t2 type ships ie 4 high 3 mid and 4 low laser AF, same goes with teh HACs.
NOS changes are good i recon there will be some nerfage and chnages there.
NOS changes hit the calderi to esp since their NOS to rechrage shield is getting castrated.
NOS changes were always going to cause an uproar.
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Druadan
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:55:00 -
[196]
First carriers, right before I finish training for it.
Now the curse, right before I finish training for it.
I'm afraid to train for anything else...
"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire |
Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:57:00 -
[197]
damnation needs more cpu and please give it heavy missile bonus as well. damnation is slow as hell and with limited range kind of of useless
Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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General StarScream
Gallente Enheduanni
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:10:00 -
[198]
this nerf will boost everyone whoms sheild tank even,more cuse they use there cap faster than armor tankers, and those will be able to use there cap and drain alot better than anyone else.
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Titus Lewis
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:12:00 -
[199]
Can you please just fix lasers? Please? Pretty Please?
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IHaveTenFingers
Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:17:00 -
[200]
I reccomend changing the tracking disruption bonus on the curse (i use an arbitrator if im planning to tracking jam, honestly) to a 10-15% cap use reduction for energy neuts only (not transfers), so the curse can still have a reason to exist. -TF
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Temugen
Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:20:00 -
[201]
ROFL...that NOS NERF is the stupidest idea ive ever seen. Im ok with a nos change of some sort but i couldnt even have imagined that it would be so stupid. ccp strikes again.
I love carebears....Tastey >: ) |
Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:22:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Silpher on 30/07/2007 22:22:47 I can't believe there is so much support for this nonsense! I could care less about the Amarr changes, but nerfing the NOS? Wtf? You know what? Sensor damps are overpowered. I say, if the sensor Damp effectiveness is 50%, and you are 50km away from your target, and the targets base range is 100km, it should only affect the excess range beyond the target.
i.e.
W/ Out Damp
(him)<50km>(you)<50km>(his base range)
With Damp
(him)<50km>(you)<25km>(his new base range)
See, it still works, but not for you.
You wanna change **** around in Eve? Fix your bugs first. Reimburse my ship when I lose it to lag/desync, better yet, fix desync. End high sec, suicide ganks. Keep griefers from bumping miners off roids repeatedly because they have small*****s.
This nerf is unnecissary, unnasked for, and just plane stupid. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
Master OlavPancrazio
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:22:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Temugen
ROFL...that NOS NERF is the stupidest idea ive ever seen. Im ok with a nos change of some sort but i couldnt even have imagined that it would be so stupid. ccp strikes again.
Temugen of the molotov coalition said it, so it must be right.
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:24:00 -
[204]
I for one Welcome these new changes as my Malidiction will now have a use other than collecting dust
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Temugen
Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:25:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio
Originally by: Temugen
ROFL...that NOS NERF is the stupidest idea ive ever seen. Im ok with a nos change of some sort but i couldnt even have imagined that it would be so stupid. ccp strikes again.
Temugen of the molotov coalition said it, so it must be right.
rofl..flaming other players in the dev blog?...nonono noob
I love carebears....Tastey >: ) |
Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:27:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Per Bastet I for one Welcome these new changes as my Malidiction will now have a use other than collecting dust
Not sure what you mean by that. I fly interceptors regularly, and NOS is rarely, RARELY used on me. I see SBs more often than I see NOS. If NOS kept you from flying your ceptor, you should just go ahead and keep it in the docking bay. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
Izo Azlion
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:31:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Johho Bulon It sounds like all downside and no upside once again.
Nos nerf? why not cap charge boost? make all cap charges smaller or allow some form of cap armouring with a new module? Or any one of the sensible suggestions already put forward?
But more importantly why is it always a nerf? Why always go this retrograde way about doing things? In RL if a nation develops a powerful weapon then counters are made by opposing forces, things that gradually diminish the power of the opposing weapon system, and so you get a cylce of development. In our RL history the British empire persuaded the world to nerf its battleships in 1921, except the Japanese decided to ignore this and build titanic battleships that left everyone far behind in terms of firepower, only the coming of age of carriers redressed the balance.
I understand the game balancing argument, but tbh it doesn't wash and feels totally artificial, instead of constant retrograde nerfing, why not go the evolutionary way? Produce modules that counteract overpowered game mechanics by giving power to the players to decide how to play. Because tbh as a relatively new player I look at all these great toys and instead of giving me more you are simply stealing the ones I already have and that sucks. And it isn't the nos thing in particular, I have looked back through the forums reading about nerf after nerf after nerf.
A perfect balance is not only not possible it isn't desirable, let nos be king today and let nos resists or maybe nos feedbacks be king in three months. But please stop this constant levelling because to be frank it is depressing and backwards and instead of us all looking forward to the delights a new patch brings we all dread to think that our particular specialization will be next to become teh suxxor.
And no I'm not going to threaten to quit or other silly things infact I just got a year long sub, evolve or die someone said I'll evolve, and I quite like neuts anyhow but for god sake please inspire us instead of the seemingly constant downgrading of anything that works.
I mean I can't help but pity the ammar guys who suddenly discover that their ship they have trained months to use well is gonna lose a fair chunk of pg with no upside and this is advertised as an 'interesting change' interesting as in time to sell your Amarr char and become Caldari maybe?
Anyhow I've gone on far to long.
Johho.
You've hit the nail right on the head, and smashed it right through the plank of wood that is the Dev Teams idea Block at times.
Sorry Devs, but this needs some serious contemplation. Customs has your gear - use this time to change the nos nerf to a nos FIX.
Thanks.
Izo Azlion.
---
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) Thanks to Stubnitz for the Sig. |
Fager
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:33:00 -
[208]
NOS - Cap-wastong tanks can still benifit largely from NOS (Shield tanker and Speed Tankers)
This might put shield tanking back in on the PvP area, however speedtanking will also prob get a boost.
Basically wasting alot of cap (taking little dmg and dishing good dmg) while draining when both are close to 0 Missiles and Projectiles can still fire.
Khanid - Im caldari 100%.. im training for Sacrilage... this will be a Cerberus on *****! Great Tank/Gank with a speed advantage and medslots to MWD/AB, Web, Scram, Cap Boost. Plus a highslot for a nos/neut and 15 dronebay.
Only advantage Cerberus have is Range... And we all know how good range is in PvP on HACs and Missiles. It will generally be heavy outdamaged, outtanked, outrunned...
Really i believe all Caldarian Missile Boats (heck all Caldari ships) deserves better speed :/
The Sacrilage will be every Caldarians wet HAC dream!
I might be wrong in these assumtions thou since perhaps fitting restrictions and such will make builds like these not happen... thoughts? :)
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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Silpher
The Blackstone Group Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:34:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Originally by: Johho Bulon It sounds like all downside and no upside once again.
Nos nerf? why not cap charge boost? make all cap charges smaller or allow some form of cap armouring with a new module? Or any one of the sensible suggestions already put forward?
But more importantly why is it always a nerf? Why always go this retrograde way about doing things? In RL if a nation develops a powerful weapon then counters are made by opposing forces, things that gradually diminish the power of the opposing weapon system, and so you get a cylce of development. In our RL history the British empire persuaded the world to nerf its battleships in 1921, except the Japanese decided to ignore this and build titanic battleships that left everyone far behind in terms of firepower, only the coming of age of carriers redressed the balance.
I understand the game balancing argument, but tbh it doesn't wash and feels totally artificial, instead of constant retrograde nerfing, why not go the evolutionary way? Produce modules that counteract overpowered game mechanics by giving power to the players to decide how to play. Because tbh as a relatively new player I look at all these great toys and instead of giving me more you are simply stealing the ones I already have and that sucks. And it isn't the nos thing in particular, I have looked back through the forums reading about nerf after nerf after nerf.
A perfect balance is not only not possible it isn't desirable, let nos be king today and let nos resists or maybe nos feedbacks be king in three months. But please stop this constant levelling because to be frank it is depressing and backwards and instead of us all looking forward to the delights a new patch brings we all dread to think that our particular specialization will be next to become teh suxxor.
And no I'm not going to threaten to quit or other silly things infact I just got a year long sub, evolve or die someone said I'll evolve, and I quite like neuts anyhow but for god sake please inspire us instead of the seemingly constant downgrading of anything that works.
I mean I can't help but pity the ammar guys who suddenly discover that their ship they have trained months to use well is gonna lose a fair chunk of pg with no upside and this is advertised as an 'interesting change' interesting as in time to sell your Amarr char and become Caldari maybe?
Anyhow I've gone on far to long.
Johho.
You've hit the nail right on the head, and smashed it right through the plank of wood that is the Dev Teams idea Block at times.
Sorry Devs, but this needs some serious contemplation. Customs has your gear - use this time to change the nos nerf to a nos FIX.
Thanks.
/Signed /Signed /and signed some more. --- If after I post my opinion, you feel the need to say, "Oh, guess what BRUCE thinks," go put on a tinfoil hat and praise jesus. It's MY opinion, not BRUCEs. |
Dern Morrow
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:34:00 -
[210]
Cry time.
Command Ships 5 T2 Med Projectile + Med Arty + Med Beam + Med Pules
Missile skills? Not even on my character sheet.
WTS every ship I own. Going cheap.
Actually I do own one Absolution, thank god you haven't touched that. But I guess my Damnation is gonna be somewhat worthless now... and my Sac... Malediction... Vengeance...
-- im in ur stargate pwning ur noobz |
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