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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Shin Mao
Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:14:00 -
[61]
This nerf kiled my dream be honorable & proud pilot of curse and piligrim good job CCP, thank you... X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: RoCkEt X
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will go through with this even if u lot sleep with thier board of directors.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better, CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
Sucking a carrier wont change much. A BS with 4 NOS and 2 neuter will keep its cap pretty low most of time. Low enough to be under the 30% magical level. Dropping the carrier cap under that is enough to guarantee it won't raise up again, so broken tank. Or someoen really think any BS have a problem to bring DOWN its cap so it can suck you?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Lt Angus
Caldari the united
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14 Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
You may want to reread the devblog. You only drain energy when you have less than your opponent.
The "nerf" boosts ships with 1-2 nos and cap-hungry weapons a great deal.
Lets just say there will be nerf neut threads in the coming months
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Kadesh Priestess
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:23:00 -
[64]
Personally, i like this change. But i'd ask to add neutralizer bonuses comparable to ones for nosf on curse/piligrim. Or just change nosf bonuses to neutralizer... cuz they really should suck in general after this change.
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Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:24:00 -
[65]
Oh no! Now that we don't have solOMG nos ships we can't possibly kill interceptors or vagabonds because it is IMPOSSIBLE that we would fit neuts!
1 heavy neut cycle = dead inty cap, BOOOOOST!
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: Lt Angus Edited by: Lt Angus on 30/07/2007 16:49:14 Funny one of the ships least affected by this is nos domi, the nerf only hurts ships with 1 or 2 nos
You may want to reread the devblog. You only drain energy when you have less than your opponent.
The "nerf" boosts ships with 1-2 nos and cap-hungry weapons a great deal.
Lets just say there will be nerf neut threads in the coming months
Nah, neuts on their own will still be exactly the same, its the combination of neuts and nos and their tactical use that will either be deemed OP or not OP in the next few months.
Also there are a few concerned about overpowered tacklers now, 1 heavy neut on your BS and 2 medium neuts on your recon will sort them out. Basically you're going to need capacitor to escape the tackler now. Much better imo.
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Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:28:00 -
[67]
omfg this nerf (yes nerf) couldn't have come soon enough! I mean c'mon how can anyone argue that this is a bad move at all?
On one hand you have a module that has no effective downside AT ALL. Fits easier than most weapon systems and not only incapacitate's your target from doing ANYTHING besides warp a short distance or move a small distance (which if your PvPing you should have propulsion jamming to deal with those) but on top of absolutely turning a ship into just a thick armored mini-can, it ADDS to your own cap reinforcing your ships abilities.
The only cost is that you used a hi-slot. ohnoes u had to trade a dmg module to turn a ship inert. I mean c'mon the damn modules dont even have chance to hit, it ALWAYS hits and in the heavy case, can outrange propulsion jammers so ensures security as well.
NOS as it is, a single heavy nos will drop the effectiveness of most cruisers/frigs and 2 NOS will hammer in most T2 items and BCs. Stacking nerf wont work
nos slots? Value per slot is still too high. 1 or 2 is all thats needed so the only other alternative is to make alot of ships have no nos slots which would kind of be disastourous in terms of letting people fit different setups of hi's besides all out guns/missiles. Sig radius based sounds like a decent idea. But then due to it being constant hit it's just a matter of time or more nos. If you incorporated all the nerfs you suggested then that might be quite good...but then i dont think you'd be happy still. 1 nos which is dependant on sig radius...may as well take the percentage nerf.
If i had my way nos should be dependant on ammo and have a chance to hit similar to turrets and be sig rad dependant. kinda like a nos ball. But that's too far i reckon.
If you really wanna drop carriers/moms, then neutralizers work just fine as a dedicated weapon...afterall you wouldn't want to be able to do everything at once like hit cap AND cause damage now do you? That'd just be too "I-win" wouldn't it? kinda like how it is now.
Curse and pilgrim now has a catch to being flown? Well that should now add to the rest of the recons. A bit more brains to fly seems about right. Gallente recons must stay out of the targets lock range and hope they dont have sensor boosters. Caldari recons have a fundamental "to hit" chance anyways. Minmatar recons are still susceptible to being hit no matter what anyways. Curse and pilgrim now needs...a shuffle in refit and timing? maybe requiring some additional situational awareness is a bit too much to ask from pilots that just wanna engage modules and be done with it.
also if you dont wanna be scrambled for hours by a ceptor you cant kill while its waiting for reinforcements that takes at least 20 mins to mobilise...can always self destruct.
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SkinnyBish
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:29:00 -
[68]
Originally by: RoCkEt X Edited by: RoCkEt X on 30/07/2007 17:13:09
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will make the change reguardless.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better, CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
ROFLMAO on sucker !
Now is the time to start whining about your capital ships being overpowered and needing another big swat with the nerf bat. The door swings both ways
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General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:31:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Lithel Pilgrim, curse bhaalgorn = Now useless garbage.
why people cannot understand that "not nber" does nto equal to "garbage"? They won be solo wtf machines, but several times CCP said that the idea of game didn't involved solo WTF machines...
Vagabond / Interceptors gangs (if the NOS change gets trough)
how does a GANG of vagabons or inties qualify as SOLO ship? or you don know the meaning of solo?
For god sake, if you fear inties so much fit a single Large neut. Stop crying, the change will be minimal to all but ships that go all NOS to break enemy tank.
Do you even have a brain or you lost it ? Vaga is a solopwnmobile stupid same goes for mach
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:33:00 -
[70]
Originally by: SkinnyBish
Originally by: RoCkEt X Edited by: RoCkEt X on 30/07/2007 17:13:09
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 16:39:03
Staking nerf, nos slots , sig radius based , but not this one this one will make my crusader invincicile but in return we need more NOS to bring down carriers/moms
ROFLMAO. i am a capital pilot in its true sense. carrier and dread pilots, like myself, will like the change for this purpose. however when bored i do spend time roaming around lowsec in a NOS myrm, so... save my capitals, or change my myrm fitting. blaster myrm 4tw!!!!!!!!!111
If u wanna take down a carrier. BE A MAN break its tank, exhaust its cap without NOS. grow some nutz.
Carrier 4tw! MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHA....
ok but myrm is now crying in hanger. i am of 2 minds. tbh, it makes my raven more uber, so i suppose i agree with the nos nerf as i am not gallente specc'ed so i dont care about myrm too much.
Cry away people. Chances are CCP will make the change reguardless.
The more cap u got... the bigger 1% is, the more cap u got, the better, CCC I rigs will now cry, the cap extender thingys are now teh pwn. Dont stick in the past, modify and change yourself to fit eve. Serves u right for putting all ur eggs in one basket (training ur skills so that you need nos to function at full capacity)
ROFLMAO on sucker !
Now is the time to start whining about your capital ships being overpowered and needing another big swat with the nerf bat. The door swings both ways
as i already stated in other thread, veryminimal change on sucking capitals. just keep your MWD on and you will suck them to the very end.Just carry 1 neuterer each BS to finish the job.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Akel jomar
Gallente Creative Destruction
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:39:00 -
[71]
OR....
you can just revert to the days when Nos didn't work anyhoo.
Nos is a crutch, if you rely on it too much in this (often) changing game, you open yourself to the repercussions.
--------
Originally by: Eris Discordia : I pwn all.
Eris Discordia wtfpwns this thread using fastlockbeamz0r and wrecks for omgwtflock!! damage
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General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:43:00 -
[72]
Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28 For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Kadesh Priestess
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:44:00 -
[73]
I enjoy playing games with 'dynamic' balance :P
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:46:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/07/2007 17:48:01
Originally by: General Apocalypse Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs. [...] ... die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof.
And why does this problem have to be adressed by tweaking nosferatus? When you have a hammer in the head, every problem looks like a nail...
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28 For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
First of all, making your post bold and colorful only makes it annoying. A more effective way of making it stand out would be to spell properly.
Secondly, a single heavy neut will instantly empty an interceptor's capacitor, and I'm sure it will put a big fat dent in a Vagabond's. The goal of nos was not to make large ships dry up small ones- it was for small ones to have cap while fighting larger ones.
Myrm, Drake, Mega, Muninn... whatever... fit a neut to make an interceptor grind to a stop. That is not what Nos is for. Now you can use your Nos to balance out the cap after you waste yours on neut. Problem solved.
Or you could just fit precision missiles.
STOP WHINING AND ADAPT.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[76]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 17:47:45
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28 For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Dude, please just take a step back and think about it for a second. A neutraliser will sort out those tacklers and then some. You're just gonna need enough cap for a neut cycle or two. That's really the only thing thats changed, the fact that you will now need cap to evade a tackler.
Some setups might need altering slightly to accomodate the neuts greater PG requirement but for evading tacklers 1 neut should be enough anyway! You really need to look at this objectively and then wait and see how it pans out.
It isn't that bad on paper.
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Kadesh Priestess
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:47:00 -
[77]
Lol, man. I want to see interceptor packs. Why do you think they're so evil? I hate when gang consists of BS/cap hordes...
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Tao Han
Caldari Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:48:00 -
[78]
General Apocalypse, are you the same guy (I cant remember his name) that just kept complaining over and over again about how invincible ceptors are and that his Raven should insta pop it (I believe it was a around the missile rebalance). Because you whine as much as he did, type in exactly the same way.
God, he was annoying...
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Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:51:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tao Han God, he was annoying...
It was detaurus and damn, he was hilarious. Now, if only Lorth and him could ever argue again, this would be epic ^.^:;
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28 For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
lol you descredited yourself... putting munin as a ship that fear inties. It will pop several inties far before they reach the munin.
And i don see why a quite superior squad of inties should not be a very powerfull force.
Overload web and you have range to keep 8/10 inties out of their weapons range. If they are too many.. so bad, bring friends.
Or use the new marvelous khanid dictor to pulverize the inties.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Feirik
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:00:00 -
[81]
I think this change is great, tho its seems harsh in the start, I really think it will favour smaller ships more. Not just vagabonds online, but maybe people try to undock their deimoses, closerange muninns, new amarr missilestuff and go pvp with them now as everything wont need a cap booster.
Now also battleships not fitting nos will get a buff, as you can actually tank without having to counternos all the time, it will also be interesting with full passive tanks and remote reps for a little larger gangs.
If you want to burn your enemys cap now, you gotta fit neuts + cap boosters... if youre so afraid of not breaking those capital tanks, fit out 5 BS for full neut and cap boosting... 24k cap neuted every 12 sec.
The age of brute force has come, not the age of cap warfare.
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PathetiQ
Gallente The Rat Pack
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:01:00 -
[82]
/signed no NOS NERF!
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Santa Anna
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Welcome to I-Win Interceptor/Vagabond Online
You could use a Huginn, or a destroyer, or an AF.
You might have to change the composition of your gangs to deal with the fact that nos is no longer an automatic win module in small-scale/solo pvp.
Hugin yes , all the other do some kills yoursef then post
If you mix some AFs or destroyers in with your BS gang then an inty gang won't bother you. They don't have the range to snipe the smaller stuff and can't single it out without getting into web range of the BS. Of course if your AFs/Destroyers run away from the BS gang they're dead pretty quick, but that's playing their game rather than forcing them to play yours.
If you want to talk solo, then a Hawk/Harpy or a Cormorant will give a long-range inty a problem. An AC Thrasher will give problems to any inty in web range.
You may not kill inties with these ships (the inties can run), but you'll give them trouble if they try to mess with your BS gang.
Vaga is very hard to kill without a Huginn and frigs/destroyers are of little help. The smaller ships were for the inties, not the Vaga, but I thought that obvious. _____ CPU Love |
Streetrip
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 30/07/2007 17:43:28 For ppl that don't get it why this NOS change is very bad pls read this
Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship (already is) and lots of people flying in interceptor packs.
So what will hapend whit ships that can't keep up Deimos, Myrm , Drake , Megatron , Abaddon , Zealot , Munnin Die due to the fact that they can't kill a speed tank now NOS proof
Just neut the damn things...web them too while your at it. They may be NOS proof but they're not neut proof. I'm not sure if u understand it. This NOS change will just make people use Neutralizers and neuts at this time are fine because they cost cap...Altho i think they should be nerfed too in advance but thats just me. I mean seriously...all your problems still have counters! You haven't "lost" eve yet! The effect your worried about loosing is the ability to drain other ships capacitors...that can still be done. The effect your persistant on wanting to stay but dont want to admit/cannot see it, is that you want a module to drain enemy cap at no cost/positive cost to your own. Thats just greedy
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Tenpun M
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:08:00 -
[85]
Originally by: AnKahn Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
actually i don't think it is really, an active tank will still be disadvantaged by NOS. A passive tanked ship with 0 cap will still be 100% effective & render NOS on the attacking ship useless.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:18:00 -
[86]
Edited by: n0thing on 30/07/2007 18:18:55 Change was really needed to adress the 6 nosf domis and the like. And yes, I am Gallente pilot. But not that kinda change imo.
But tbh, such change can be easily avoided. It doesnt solve the problem.
How? Easily.
I have dual rep setup on domi with 4 nosfs. I dont activate nosfs at first and simply kick in MWD/LAR IIs and all that uses cap. Wow, my cap falls below 20%. Now I nosf my target, then again, self-drain myself and nosf him again and again.
If I wanna risk further I can self-drain myself to even 5% cap and then kill enemy cap completly even now.
Doesnt change anything. ---
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Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:19:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Tenpun M
Originally by: AnKahn Oh, and this is an extension of the passive tank nerf.
Can I guess your position on that one???
actually i don't think it is really, an active tank will still be disadvantaged by NOS. A passive tanked ship with 0 cap will still be 100% effective & render NOS on the attacking ship useless.
This change will have negligible effect on passive tankers.
It won't hurt any active tankers relative to the status quo. (Non-Nos ***** division)
It will help active tankers who are strapped for cap before nos as they can no longer be nossed.
==> good for active tankers. _____ CPU Love |
Santa Anna
Caldari Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: n0thing If I wanna risk
...
Doesnt change anything.
That's the change. _____ CPU Love |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:31:00 -
[89]
Do you guys realize that Heavy Neuts have a cycle time of 24 secs? That will NOT keep any inty from tackling you forever... Now if Neuts get their cap drain, cap need and cycle time halved, maybe THEN we can talk about them as nos replacement as the only viable defense for BS against small fast ships.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
AnKahn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:35:00 -
[90]
Tenpun and others,
Maybe more accurate to say this is a logical extension of the passive tank nerf. The gankers(really the only possible pro NOS people)were crying "Nerf the Drake" cuz their nos ships could not solo pwn the passive tank. They celebrated the small nerf they got but this is the follow up to it. I agree the NOS nerf helps the active tankers and TOGETHER with the passive tank nerf brings the shield tank thing into better balance.
The other reason for that particular post of mine was to try and point out that pro-NOS = GANKER. Ganker = GRIEFER.
Yes every game needs bad guys. Just with NOS the bad guys had a slightly too powerful weapon. Yes I read that NOS could be used for good but we still have neuts for that.
And how may times have you died warp scrambled and with a dry cap, with annoying drones pew pewing you.
This is the beginning of Gallente balancing too guys.
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