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Shin Mao
Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:04:00 -
[1]
Ok I know that mighty nosferatu was imbalanced, ok good nerf realy, but this nerf make totaly useless all amarr recons. Maybe revamp their bonuses like 99% (on 5 lv of recons) reduction in activation cost of energy neutralizers? Why not?
X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:17:00 -
[2]
Currently, the Pilgrim gets the Role bonus of:
Quote: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
I would recommend changing this (who uses a force recon for cyno's anyways ).... to:
Quote: 75% reduction in capacitor use of Energy Emission modules and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
The "main" weapon system of the Pilgrim and the Curse is neutralizing the enemies capacitor, while the drones / gang do damage. Without the ability to drain the enemies capacitor while maintaining your own makes these ships more vulnerable than any other recon.
How about we make Stasis Webifiers based upon these changes as well? Ex: A webber only lowers the speed of your opponent to match your own?
Or, we can make Sensor Dampeners: Decreases the target's range / sensor strength up to your own.
etc...
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:21:00 -
[3]
Hmm sacrifice 2 ships and gain, what, 20? Now that sounds like a fair trade to me.
Just combine nos with neuts and you get the same effect. Perhaps even improved.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Hmm sacrifice 2 ships and gain, what, 20? Now that sounds like a fair trade to me.
Just combine nos with neuts and you get the same effect. Perhaps even improved.
Sure, its not like I haven't been training for a Curse / Pilgrim, using them AS INTENDED (ie, tracking disruptors, tanking.. not nos-nano-dampening)... for almost a year now.
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Edania
Caldari BlackSky inc. Edge Of Sanity
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:24:00 -
[5]
change one of there bonii to somthing like -10% effective cap for nos calculations which means if your full you can take them to 50% if your at 50% you can take them to 25% with max skills
think that wouldwork
Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
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Tintifish
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:43:00 -
[6]
Remember other ships that rely on nos eg Ishtar. It has 3 turrets and 5 highs, nos really was the only option on it, which is now completely useless. Neuts will take cosmos to fit, and it simply doesn't have the cap to run them. I can try a blaster setup, 3 heavy electron IIs, then....2 more highs...nos wont fit, drone links wont fit, neuts wont fit,... I challenge anyone to come up with a decent t2 ishtar setup t2 tbh, considering now is now next to useless.
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Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:32:00 -
[7]
I don't understand why everybody's first reaction is "the sky is falling!!111" because of the nos change. You'll still be able to cripple ships fairly easily, it just won't be the I-WIN button of before.
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Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:40:00 -
[8]
I'd agree that a revamp for the curse and pilgrims bonuses is needed. Perhaps as suggested earlier changing the NOS amount bonus to a neutraliser cap usage decrease of perhaps 10% per level. This ship then still remains very good at removing cap and staying in line with CCPs change that nos should now not really give you cap for nothing.
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:49:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 30/07/2007 18:52:05
Quote: The "main" weapon system of the Pilgrim and the Curse is neutralizing the enemies capacitor
So, given that you understand how a curse works.. why not fit.. oh.. NEUTRALIZERS? hehe.. Just when people find the 'i win' button ccp turns it off and everyone who can't pvp without it whines all over the forums..
Curse was a bit too powerful as it was anyway, its main weapon bonuses (at the time) being the most powerful module you can fit on a ship :P
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BlackPlague
Shadow Company FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:53:00 -
[10]
Maybe if Dominix and Typhoon had a little more powergrid we wouldn't be in the situation before where we had full racks of nano's in lows and full racks of nosferatu in highs and nerfs being implemented against both. Shadow Company
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prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:02:00 -
[11]
it was never an i win button
nos was balanced previuosly by the fact that even a curse took time to kill an opponent the current changes effectivly cripple the recon but also the following ships were also nerfed in the process
typhoon domi myrmidon ishtar ishkur
the nerf seems to be more like "oh did the mean old curse kill you awwww thats ok little fella , we'll show him a thing or two " as usual
since we have nerfed this now this should be followed by a nerf to sensor damps and webbers to keep the playing field even and fair this was a poorly though out idea with poor implementation
nos's should have been nerfed to take into account cap size and nossed based on percentage rather than an arbitrary ammount . this is just poor implementation . it kind of amazes me when ccp takes such steps and yet faces accusations of gm helping .... because if these are the solutions then i have strong doubts that the gm's are really even playing eve .
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Kitia
STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kitia on 30/07/2007 19:06:48
Originally by: Feng Schui
The "main" weapon system of the Pilgrim and the Curse is neutralizing the enemies capacitor, while the drones / gang do damage. Without the ability to drain the enemies capacitor while maintaining your own makes these ships more vulnerable than any other recon.
And this is the big problem, your damage output is not enough to brake most ships of the same size and class tank without forcing there cap to critical point. The problem with this change is that it forces the Curse/Pilgrim to also need such a low cap point. And its just too cap Dependant to survive running out of cap. All those tracking disruptions the scramble and your tank, take a lot of cap to run.
Now from the tests Ive run on singularity (when it was up) Adding a nut does let you drain the other ships cap so there tank dies but this does puts you very close to death in the process.
Kitia
PS Anyone able to get in Singularity at the moment, patched to 35248 only getting unable to connect message
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:18:00 -
[13]
I dunno, it doesn't affect the phoon at all.. I still run my nanophoon with the same setup, my MWD keeps my cap low as it can get with boosters keeping it right at 30% range so my opponents are gonna sit there whether they want to or not.. and if they're at 30 their tank is going to break pretty soon anyway.. if it doesn't then its time to leave before my own cap dies :) Either way phoon is just a big clunky stabber :P
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 30/07/2007 18:52:05
Quote: The "main" weapon system of the Pilgrim and the Curse is neutralizing the enemies capacitor
So, given that you understand how a curse works.. why not fit.. oh.. NEUTRALIZERS? hehe.. Just when people find the 'i win' button ccp turns it off and everyone who can't pvp without it whines all over the forums..
Curse was a bit too powerful as it was anyway, its main weapon bonuses (at the time) being the most powerful module you can fit on a ship :P
The only reason the Curse is "overpowered" because it is not used how it was intended (ie: it fits sensor dampeners, not tracking disruptors).
And I don't fly a Curse... I'm a Pilgrim pilot.
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Corbeau Lenoir
Caldari Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 19:37:00 -
[15]
I really like this nerf. Nosferatus were IWIN button against smaller ships. Now interceptor pilots wont be screwed just because target ship has lots of high slots fitted with them. Even better - may be drone boats will start using some other high slot modules for a change
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:00:00 -
[16]
Yea I like it too.. going to have to modify most of my builds though as half of them use nos and the other half are to counter nos.. oh well.. its not hard to adapt and thrive :P
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Aberash
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Feng Schui
The only reason the Curse is "overpowered" because it is not used how it was intended (ie: it fits sensor dampeners, not tracking disruptors).
The reason for that is that half of eve are caldari missile *****s, and a curse/pilgrim moving slow(ie a non-nanod track disrupter curse - as people think they should be used) is extremely vulnerable to..
A nerf to nos was gonna come sooner or later, just dont think its gonna work myself - it means to actually nos them successfully u need to be at low cap.. and most ships that use nos use them to avoid that ie to run an active tank or mwd..
imo they should have changed it so that whilst the target ships cap is at a high amount the NOS takes the full amount of cap per cycle, but as there cap gets lower the drain amount gets less (just like how your cap recharges faster when your at a lower level..
This would mean the ships cap would stay at a decent amount for a lot longer... and wouldnt make nos pretty pointless
Abe
VID:[IXC] House of Prawn II
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Toffles
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:18:00 -
[18]
Live with it. It hardly makes the ships useless it just makes them a little more balanced, and they're still great recons. The falcon on the other hand...
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Nikol Kidman
Sadistic Influence
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Nikol Kidman on 30/07/2007 20:28:12 NO. Curse and Pilgrim still be a good ships, because they also have launcher hardpoints. Just you will drop 1 NOS for HAM launcher.
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ChimeraRouge
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.07.30 20:52:00 -
[20]
good riddance those ships were way overpowered. adapt or die. try fitting something else on your ships other than nos... how about guns or missiles? so much ******* whining
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Alierite
Caldari No Thats My Lizard
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:00:00 -
[21]
I agree with poster, if your going to ruin nos at least change the curse & pilgrim bonuses so they arent completely useless |
Pociomundo
Gallente World Order The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:37:00 -
[22]
After the epic "HAI GUYZ I KNOW COMPLETLY NOTING ABOUT BALANCE" thread that was your X-ray nuclear pumped laser.
I think I'll ignore you.
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Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 30/07/2007 22:44:23 None of the recons ever had the firepower to kill anything big EXCEPT curses.
Now all recons have low firepower and curse can't kill stuff simply coz people can't rep anymore. I think the change is good.
You'll still be able to get cap to 30% and if you have anything with you that can deal damage you will still tip the tank over. You just can't do it alone... boohoo
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Shin Mao
Caldari AFC Ultima Rati0
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Shin Mao on 30/07/2007 23:06:50 Discussion was about curse & piligrim, this nerf simple make them near useless. Their main power was not tracking disruptors, most pilots use sensor dampers anyway (they must be nerfed like jammers), but nos and energy neutralizers to bring down enemy tank like others use for this purpouse weapons. And now you can't drain and bleed to death by your drones your target, your capacitor must be near death too, realy tricky and risky indeed. I don't know what or how developers can solve this problem, but this problem must be solved, maybe slightly revamp their neut and nos bonuses, not 90% bonuses, just kidding but to that value that make them useful as now. Main problem with nosferatos was that nearly all use them and they own smoller ships. Maybe better way was restricting energy vampires for special ships only? P.S. Forum troll, self-affirmation by humilation of others making them no honor and respect... Don't feed the trolls. X-ray nuclear pumped laser:
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 23:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 30/07/2007 23:20:20 Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 30/07/2007 23:19:33
Originally by: Feng Schui Currently, the Pilgrim gets the Role bonus of:
Quote: 200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
I would recommend changing this (who uses a force recon for cyno's anyways ).... to:
I do.
Originally by: Feng Schui
Quote: 75% reduction in capacitor use of Energy Emission modules and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
Not a bad idea, what if it was given a drain amount bonus to nos (as it is now) and an activation cost reduction without the drain amount to neutralizers to match based on the recon skill? For that matter, what if the pilgrim's drain amount bonus was changed to range (like any other self-respecting recon)? I agree fully it's a significant change to the curse and pilgrim (people upset about myrm/ishtar/domi/whatever are just plain uncreative, I fly none of these ships as nos-boats and wouldn't have it any other way, but I digress), and should be looked at a bit.
Personally I thought making nos's effect based on ratio instead of a black and white "if your cap > his cap, your nos don't work" would be better, e.g. if your target has 40% the capacitor you do, your nos is 40% as effective. So as your target's cap dies, your nos becomes less and less efficient. Less damaging to nos-spammers, while giving targets more time to shoot, and in some cases they may not even fall under peak recharge rate if they're set up as such. Seemed like a good idea in my head at least :)
(edited for massive quote failure)
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.31 01:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 31/07/2007 01:31:32 It's also worth pointint out that with combat drone op 5, interfacing 5, and drone spec 4, a pilgrim/curse does 233 DPS from 5 Hammerhead II's, in contrast a 200mm rail arazu slinging antimatter around does 220 (with 3 hammers and 2 hobbies) and doesn't get to nos things down. The damage output of amarr recons is already on par with the other recons, but it's the only one that also gets to turn your tank off. It's not like it's being rendered useless here.
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 01:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: ChimeraRouge good riddance those ships were way overpowered. adapt or die. try fitting something else on your ships other than nos... how about guns or missiles? so much ******* whining
/me sarcasm on: What an excellent idea, any suggestions as to what I fit on the hight slots for my Arbi? (3 turrets, 1 launcher - no bonuses for either).
C.
- sig designer - eve mail |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 02:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Edania change one of there bonii to somthing like -10% effective cap for nos calculations which means if your full you can take them to 50% if your at 50% you can take them to 25% with max skills
think that wouldwork
This is a bloody awesome ideea. :)
Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ. |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 02:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tekumze Wolf Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 30/07/2007 22:44:23 None of the recons ever had the firepower to kill anything big EXCEPT curses.
Now all recons have low firepower and curse can't kill stuff simply coz people can't rep anymore. I think the change is good.
You'll still be able to get cap to 30% and if you have anything with you that can deal damage you will still tip the tank over. You just can't do it alone... boohoo
Have you actually flown Recon ships ? And big as in what ... supercapitals ?
Most recons are close to 200 DPS, which is more than enough to break HACs, Cruisers, BC's even - except for Myrm and Drake who have a godly tank.
Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.31 02:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Originally by: Edania change one of there bonii to somthing like -10% effective cap for nos calculations which means if your full you can take them to 50% if your at 50% you can take them to 25% with max skills
think that wouldwork
This is a bloody awesome ideea. :)
yup I love this idea as well, the curse should be the one ship in game that takes nos to a whole new level.
or the old lvl.. which ever sounds cooler.
STOP WHINING! chances are this will make ammar recon more powerful if they change them. They want the cruse to move that way. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
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