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Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:54:00 -
[1]
Now that the Heretic has a single weapon system bonus the Eris is being left very much in the cold as the worst interdictor of the lot.
Every interdictor seems to me to have a choice of fitting longer range weapons and nothing for a tank or shorter range weapons and some sort of a tank. The Sabre which is the premier dictor typically fits 7x200mm ACs, MWD, WEB, 24km Scram, Medium Shield Extender (all tech 2) plus 2 speed mods in the lows. Here the tank is passive but more than enough to deal with multiple interceptors and allows the Sabre to stay in a lot of fights. Similarly the flycatcher can fit extenders plus rockets or standard missiles.
The Eris is under performing both DPS and tank wise. This is caused by two things, firstly it has a split weapon bonus of falloff for blasters and damage bonus to missiles yet can only use 5 turrets or 4 launchers. Secondly its CPU is woeful, the lowest by 30 units making most fits mandatory to use the lowest CPU needing T1 items rather than T2 (my skills are maxed for saving CPU).
To fix the Eris and make it a decent interdictor remove its split bonus and give it the same bonuses as the Sabre: 5% turret damage and 10% tracking for its frigate bonus and 10% to falloff and bubble rate of fire to its Interdictor skill. Next give it 6 turret and 2/3 launcher slots and boost its CPU substantially by at least 35 units.
With 35 CPU units extra the Eris could fit the following: HIGHS 6xLight Ion Blaster II 1x Arbalest rocket launcher 1x Interdictor bubble launcher MIDS 1MN MWD II 24km Disruptor LOWS Small Rep II Damage Control II Magnetic Plating II Reactive Plating II
Damage wise this now puts the Eris above the Sabre but it would in no way be superior as its speed would be far lower (approx 3k without speed mods), it has big cap issues and has no web and is still far more vulnerable. It would also be a lot more viable in a rail fit as it now has the CPU to fit 6x 125mm Rail IIs and a standard missile launcher with a 24km scrambler whilst achieving 4km+ and no tank.
This ship is really in need of attention, please devs take a look and give it a quick boost in Rev 2.2
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert Nexus Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:18:00 -
[2]
but she is the nicest dev out there
i know nuffin about the ship tho gl with that
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britchie
Gallente The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:23:00 -
[3]
I was told that this is a good fleet ship and it seems so. Here's the setup. High: bubble launcher, whatever Mid: MWD, medium shield extender Low: 4x WCS
Your job is to drop bubbles and stay alive in fleets. Let the intys do the tackling and the rest will cover the dps. This ship is successfull in fleets but for solo or very small groups you would be better in a flycatcher and much better in a sabre.
Does anyone know how to get my name capitalized? |
Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.30 18:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: britchie I was told that this is a good fleet ship and it seems so. Here's the setup. High: bubble launcher, whatever Mid: MWD, medium shield extender Low: 4x WCS
Your job is to drop bubbles and stay alive in fleets. Let the intys do the tackling and the rest will cover the dps. This ship is successfull in fleets but for solo or very small groups you would be better in a flycatcher and much better in a sabre.
Thats fine, the Eris is as good as anything else for fleets but every other interdictor is great for small gang PVP too and is able to kill ceptors, some AFs and some cruisers. Read the ship description "Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft." The Eris is terrible against any frigate size craft.
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Amaldor Themodius
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Posted - 2007.07.31 07:29:00 -
[5]
Agree with this post. Eris would benefit from minor "tuning" to bring it in line with other ships of its class. Not sure i agree with the comment to align with Sabre as imho each of the racial dictors should offer something different.
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ockackies
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: ockackies on 31/07/2007 08:36:08
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Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.07.31 12:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: britchie I was told that this is a good fleet ship and it seems so. Here's the setup....
Your job is to drop bubbles and stay alive in fleets. Let the intys do the tackling and the rest will cover the dps. This ship is successfull in fleets but for solo or very small groups you would be better in a flycatcher and much better in a sabre.
well, any other interdictor is a better fleet ship, the Eris is very cpu gimped. -- Tempus fugit -- |
Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.31 13:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Amaldor Themodius Agree with this post. Eris would benefit from minor "tuning" to bring it in line with other ships of its class. Not sure i agree with the comment to align with Sabre as imho each of the racial dictors should offer something different.
I'd personally say that it simply brings it in line with what all the other interdictors have which is the ability to at least fit something half decent. I think the problem really comes from the fact that the Eris comes from the same line as the Ares which is a terrible interceptor whereas the Sabre comes from the Stilletto which is a nice fast interceptor (albeit lacking punch).
Given the description of the Roden Shipyards "Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generally possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than that of their competitorsÆ."
Perhaps it would be more in line to go the other way and give two missile bonuses, 5% missile damage per frig level and a precision bonus per frig level and a thermal damage bonus per destroyer level. Tweak the mass and velocity to give it a little more speed since it really is a very slow ship not as its description suggests and still give it a substantial CPU upgrade of the order 35-40 units. The result would probably be a Gallente Crow which isn't good but to be honest the Eris seriously needs a boost and I'd welcome any other suggestions.
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Eytre
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jai Cee Now that the Heretic has a single weapon system bonus the Eris is being left very much in the cold as the worst interdictor of the lot.
Domi, Mega, Hyperion, Brutix, Myr, Ishtar, Ishkur, Vexor, Thorax...
'Bout time Gallente was the worst at something again, and keep in mind while you whine for nerfs and boosts, someone has to be the worst and someone has to be the best. If everything was perfectly ballanced eve get real booring real fast.
Originally by: Adaris Isn't there any advice that you can offer short of Wranglers more than apparent fetish for BALD NAKED AMARR CHICKS?
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Lord Loom
Loom Service Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:15:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lord Loom on 31/07/2007 19:17:02 also, it's half as expensive as heretic and flycatcher - that's an advantage, too
also, re: Roden Shipyards, they need to transfer this description to Khanid Innovations now ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
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zacuis
Darkest Knights
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Posted - 2007.07.31 23:45:00 -
[11]
i`d love to see an end to people wanting every ship of every race to be as good as the other races.
i`d like to see the different races having a clear advantage in a specific ship class ie caldari being bs king gal being hac king amarr being king at anything.
this constant move toward everything being the same bores the life out of me. if u want the best in each ship class u should have to train multiple races.
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Abye
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.01 00:48:00 -
[12]
The Eris needs serious help. One time I couldn't kill a shuttle that jumped into in my bubble. ___
Inappropriate signature. Please do not use this signature. Email us for more information -Eldo ([email protected]) |
William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.01 01:27:00 -
[13]
You need to adress the crux of this problem:
Roden ships tend to kinda suck:
Enyo - Not great Ares - Bad intie Eris - The subject of this thread Lachesis - Well, it's good, there's no such thing as a bad recon Oneiros - Logistics aready got boosted
So, as you can see, any combat oriented roden shipyards ship sucks, they only break to saftey when they have ewar or logistics as their primary role.
So, in closing: Mkae Roden mk II
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.01 01:42:00 -
[14]
O_O
Yes, lets boost the Eris! I want the Eris to be the best Interdictor. Like my Brutix and Myrmidon and Vexor and Thorax and Dominix and Megathron and Hyperion and Celestis and Arazu and Lachesis and ... ?!
I understand the desire to have better ships, but you might have tried asking for something... you know ... reasonable.
You could start by asking for 10-20 CPU since the Armor tank CPU nerfs... jeeze.
Liang
Originally by: "QproQ"
When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
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Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.08.01 11:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Liang Nuren O_O
Yes, lets boost the Eris! I want the Eris to be the best Interdictor. Like my Brutix and Myrmidon and Vexor and Thorax and Dominix and Megathron and Hyperion and Celestis and Arazu and Lachesis and ... ?!
I understand the desire to have better ships, but you might have tried asking for something... you know ... reasonable.
You could start by asking for 10-20 CPU since the Armor tank CPU nerfs... jeeze.
Liang
I'm not sure you've ever actually tried to fit an Eris or even flown an interdictor. Fit all 3 of the other races and you will be able to fit almost every module in T2, the sabre for instance has ridiculously easy fittings. Now try to fit the Eris a close range setup with 5x Ion 2s, 2x Rocket launchers, Bubble launcher, MWD 2, Disruptor 2 this leaves you with 5 CPU for 4 low slots. God help you if you try to fit the more CPU needy long range weapons then you won't even be able to fill your high slots. There needs to be a boost of at least 30 units just to give it the same level of CPU as every other dictor. If you then want to address the fact that its a really crap ship you need to give it a single weapons bonus. That would either make it more like the Taranis in setup or if you went with a missile bonus it becomes more like a crow. The latter as I have said would probably make it the best interdictor and I am not in favour of that since its really not the Gallente style (long range missiles not being the best ) and giving it a rocket only bonus would just make it the same as the new Heretic. The suggestion of turret bonuses just makes the ship viable not overpowered nor the best interdictor.
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Haffrage on 01/08/2007 22:05:00
Originally by: William Hamilton You need to adress the crux of this problem:
Roden ships tend to kinda suck:
Enyo - AWESOME Ares - Bad intie Eris - The subject of this thread Lachesis - Well, it's good, there's no such thing as a bad recon Oneiros - Logistics aready got boosted
So, as you can see, any roden shipyards ship with missile bonuses sucks, they only break to saftey when they have ewar or logistics as their primary role.
So, in closing: Mkae Roden mk II
Fixed :P
Why is the enyo awesome? No missile bonuses. Epic tank. OPTIMAL + tracking bonus to partially negate not having a web, in addition to a damage bonus (something all dictors but the eris have for their primary weapons), and lastly a fantastic tank. It's meant to tank, it's an AF! Dictors and ceptors, even a lach...not so much. I'm not saying they can't, some good setups out there can do it. I'm saying they shouldn't.
Heavy armor and split systems = SUCKAGE on something designed to be light and fast. Roden Shipyards should A: NOT be making light fast ships, or B: get more rails or more missiles. None of this split crap on T2 (What's supposed to be specialized), especially not after the Khanid changes. I'd say Lai Dai needs a poking but other than the raptor they have a good track record for powerful ships.
We currently have 1 7 turret slot dictor, 2 6 missile slot dictors (ALL with 3x bonuses to the ship and 0 cap consumption to fire weapons), and then 1 5/4 split ship that is best suited to fit rails, because it hasn't got the mids to catch targets to use blasters on. I have one simple question for CCP: WTF.
In addition to needing cap for its main weapon, the Eris is the only dictor with the tracking problems it's got. Flycatcher and Heretic have none at all. The sabre can reach almost as far, if not farther, with its AC's than an eris can with rails, and never has to worry about going cap dead to its own guns in addition to its web or point. Seriously, AC's with barrage will outrange, outtrack, and outdps 75mm rails with antimatter. AC's with barrage will *almost* reach as far as 125mm rails with antimatter, but still outtrack and outdps them. Another question for ccp: WTF?
What do I propose for a fix? +1 or +2 turret slot (Preferably +2), slash the missile bonus, give it a hybrid damage bonus, and boost its cap. Lose the falloff bonus too, give it a freaking optimal bonus. Make this thing a speedtanking Enyo on *****, just like the speedtanking wolf, speedtanking vengeance, and speedtanking hawk on ***** you already gave us. Additionally, this will give us 2 turret dictors and 2 missile dictors, breaking even both ways like it was when dictors came out. Only now maybe half of the dictors won't suck
5 days left on min frig V, can't wait -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers Eve GUI Tweaks |
Dapanman1
Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.02 03:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jai Cee
I'm not sure you've ever actually tried to fit an Eris or even flown an interdictor. Fit all 3 of the other races and you will be able to fit almost every module in T2, the sabre for instance has ridiculously easy fittings. Now try to fit the Eris a close range setup with 5x Ion 2s, 2x Rocket launchers, Bubble launcher, MWD 2, Disruptor 2 this leaves you with 5 CPU for 4 low slots. God help you if you try to fit the more CPU needy long range weapons then you won't even be able to fill your high slots. There needs to be a boost of at least 30 units just to give it the same level of CPU as every other dictor. If you then want to address the fact that its a really crap ship you need to give it a single weapons bonus. That would either make it more like the Taranis in setup or if you went with a missile bonus it becomes more like a crow. The latter as I have said would probably make it the best interdictor and I am not in favour of that since its really not the Gallente style (long range missiles not being the best ) and giving it a rocket only bonus would just make it the same as the new Heretic. The suggestion of turret bonuses just makes the ship viable not overpowered nor the best interdictor.
Fit Electrons?
Beets, you're among friends. |
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.02 03:46:00 -
[18]
If you do that, you can fill your low slots, but you end up with about 25-30 grid free. There is no good fitting on the eris really.
The bonuses on the ship don't make sense. It's true roden ships have missile bonuses, but only on ships that also have damage bonuses to hybrids first. The ship doesn't have the CPU to support launchers, plain and simple. It needs 1 more turret, and the missile bonus needs to go for hybrid damage instead.
It would at least then be marginal, then.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.02 06:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Haffrage Edited by: Haffrage on 01/08/2007 22:05:00
Why is the enyo awesome? No missile bonuses. Epic tank. OPTIMAL + tracking bonus to partially negate not having a web, in addition to a damage bonus (something all dictors but the eris have for their primary weapons), and lastly a fantastic tank. It's meant to tank, it's an AF! Dictors and ceptors, even a lach...not so much. I'm not saying they can't, some good setups out there can do it. I'm saying they shouldn't.
Well, I don't fly gallente, I was only basing that on market prices....
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Jai Cee
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.08.02 10:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dapanman1
Fit Electrons?
Thats a pretty bad choice since you don't have the speed to catch anything or a web to hold anything. Not only that but every other dictor can fit their top of the line weapon system no problem, you don't see sabre pilots fitting 125mm ACs nor do Flycatcher pilots have to fit malkuth rockets just to achieve a basic fit not even a tank of any sort.
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scouty scouty2
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Posted - 2007.08.04 20:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jai Cee
Originally by: Dapanman1
Fit Electrons?
Thats a pretty bad choice since you don't have the speed to catch anything or a web to hold anything. Not only that but every other dictor can fit their top of the line weapon system no problem, you don't see sabre pilots fitting 125mm ACs nor do Flycatcher pilots have to fit malkuth rockets just to achieve a basic fit not even a tank of any sort.
Um, I almost always fit 125mm AC IIs on my sabre, great range with barrage and leaves pg for other stuff
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Alt posts 4tw |
Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.08.04 20:57:00 -
[22]
I HAVE been able to come up with some nice nano setups for this ship, but with railguns I end up with a high slot empty (not enough CPU to fit the last launcher), but plenty of PG left.
If I were to fit anything requiring CPU in the low slots like say damage mods or tank there'd be enough for uh, electron blasters or 75mm railguns, MAYBE missile/rocket launchers. The nano setups are literally the only ones open to me.
Also the split weapon bonus - please get rid of it. A missile bonus on a ship that has less launcher slots that turrets and not enough CPU to actually use the missile hardpoints effectively? Useless. Just because it's Roden doesn't mean it needs a missile bonus (see the enyo).
Ironicly, you can get very nice setups out of it without the sphere launcher.
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Dapanman1
Amarr Beets' Auxillary Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.05 00:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Eytre
Originally by: Jai Cee Now that the Heretic has a single weapon system bonus the Eris is being left very much in the cold as the worst interdictor of the lot.
Domi, Mega, Hyperion, Brutix, Myr, Ishtar, Ishkur, Vexor, Thorax...
'Bout time Gallente was the worst at something again, and keep in mind while you whine for nerfs and boosts, someone has to be the worst and someone has to be the best. If everything was perfectly ballanced eve get real booring real fast.
Now you can add Deimos too
Beets, you're among friends. |
galphi
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Posted - 2007.08.05 06:20:00 -
[24]
I'm with Haffrage on the fixes to the Eris. That would balance it out nicely and then all the interdictors would be worthwhile ships
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Lord Loom
Loom Service Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: galphi I'm with Haffrage on the fixes to the Eris. That would balance it out nicely and then all the interdictors would be worthwhile ships
I think it needs the gun hardpoints and damage/range bonuses to turn it into both a decent rail sniper or blaster pwn boat - if it ain't overtakin' the Sabre, it ain't a proper fix
AMIRITE? ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
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Callthetruth
Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:08:00 -
[26]
leave the eris as is but give it a 30% boost to salvage success rates per cycle, dictors also make great 0.0 and high sec salvage ships ( better tank speed and of course all those high slots of the destoryers have)
so for the love of god CCP give the eris a 30% bonus to salvage access rates
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Andreya
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Posted - 2007.08.05 17:52:00 -
[27]
bah i fly a sabre so im biased here. but, gallente have Taranis, my favorite inty, which does the most damage of all intys and outdamages over half the assault frigates ishkur, my favorite AF, gawd, this thing takes down cruisers on a daiily basis,and god knows what else Helios, best covert (best fitting layout) i wont bother continuing with the larger ships... if the eris gets 'proper' gun layouts its going to wipe the floor with everything out there, even alot of cruisers. let the other races have the upper hand in a class for once, cause gallente have at least one pimped out ship in every class (as in better then most the other races) even gallente ships look sexier than most the others :P well, ecept the pink eris... so there you go, its fugly and useless, lets leave it that way (im jus buggin, the eris does need some help, but gawd, dont make it a uber damage dessie, leave that fun role to the sabre ) yarr
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