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Baron Xenos
Nothing PersonaI
0
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Posted - 2012.01.12 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
currently, the wardec system in eve is very broken and silly, and is in much need of remake. this aside, there is one major exploit that completely undermines the system and makes wardeccing anyone that knows about it impossible.
situation: corp1 decs corp2 corp 2 does not want to be in a war all corp 2 has to do is join an alliance, and the wardec transferrs to said alliance. (assume 1 man 1 corp alliance) then corp 2 leaves the alliance and is considered to have "surrendered" to corp 1, and is no longer in a wardec with them. this essentially makes it easy to get rid of wardecs whenever you want, or if it is being offered as a service, puts a price on getting rid of a wardec that does not include paying the corp that wardecced you.
this is a blatantly obvious exploit that makes the money that corp 1 spent to dec corp 2 basically disappear for nothing, and needs to be patched out of the game asap.
PLEASE BUMP THIS THREAD AND MAKE CCP NOTICE. very simple change for them to do, and is an obviously needed fix. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
1
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Posted - 2012.01.12 21:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Can't tell if troll... or just stupid... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
125
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Posted - 2012.01.12 22:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP is fully aware of Dec Shields... And how they can be abused.
This is not the only way in which wardec's are broken, and CCP is aware these issues:
1.) Dec Shields: The mechanic you described. 2.) Corp Hopping: Corp A wardecs Corp B. Out of Corp Pilot hunts down a member of Corp B, joins Corp A, does something to create a session change (otherwise this is an official exploit), and then attacks that member of Corp B (Legally). 3.) Corp Hopping: Wardeced Members of Corp B just jump to another corp, avoiding the wardec... 4.) The cost of wardecs is negligible...
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Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
85
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Posted - 2012.01.13 04:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just confirming a river of tears has been cried for you. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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James Mangeiri
World Forge Industries
2
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Posted - 2012.01.13 06:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Outz Xacto wrote:Can't tell if troll... or just stupid...
Just stupid. It was my corporation that he wardecced, and I guess it's made him quite upset.
Better luck next time, pal! |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
69
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Posted - 2012.01.13 07:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
As a dude who concerns himself with wardecs, I'd like to weigh in on this.
Wardecs *are* broken. This is a story as old as the hills. Further, they're broken in several different ways. They're broken both from the perspective of the carebears that get decced when they have no ability to sufficiently pucker their butthole in defense or the knowledge to scrape the dec and also from the perspective of the griefer who is looking for unpuckered buttholes to violence.
Corp hopping is broken both ways as well. The ways Skunks use it are just as brutally unfair as those able to scamper away like cockroaches under kitchen lights.
Now, I used to think it was a mechanical issue, and for some facets of it this is absolutely true, but the larger issue is simply this:
There is no reason for anyone to be in a corp in highsec. There is no advantage of it. The only thing of even marginal utility is the corp hanger system, which can be handled on the fly with contracts. Even if a corp has a POS up, it's most likely just a hobby-garden, and if it's actually being used, one or two well skilled industry toons can use it to full capacity, meaning it need not be a corp thing so much as a side project for an individual that requires there be a corp in order for it to be put up.
Consequently, there's absolutely no reason other than pride or ignorance that someone shouldn't be willing to drop corp the instant it's a disadvantage to be in one. I know for Skunks, for instance, the actual corp only exists as a platform for wardecs. We don't need it. All of the actual corp goings-on are discussed in player made channels and Teamspeak. If the actual corp of Skunkworks disappeared in a horrific gardening accident, we would mourn the loss of a badass name and otherwise continue on without missing a step.
I don't have a proposal for a solution yet, but I'm giving it some serious thought, and CCP should be doing the same.
(Monk for CSM) |
Tess La'Coil
The Dominion of Light BLACK-MARK
9
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Posted - 2012.01.13 07:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
What else do you use a wardec for than POSbash in hisec? Gank defenseless haulers? K. I don't see the problem really.. all the people have to do otherwise to get away is drop corp. And if they do that through the DecShield Alliance style to keep their corp, or if they drop corp and enter NPC corp is not really much different other than trashing their employment history. Do you also want people to be unable to leave their corp and return to NPC corp while a wardec is active or something?
If you just want to kill something in hisec.. just accept the suicide loss I guess. If you're just after kills of folks in hisec for which you get no penalty I think you're barking up the wrong tree with what mechanic they get away is rather irrelevant, because they can always do so.
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Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc Laika.
54
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Posted - 2012.01.13 09:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
James Mangeiri wrote:Outz Xacto wrote:Can't tell if troll... or just stupid... Just stupid. It was my corporation that he wardecced, and I guess it's made him quite upset. Better luck next time, pal!
0.o |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
96
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Posted - 2012.01.13 12:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its not an expoit just a way to laugh at bad high sec pvpers to **** to jump into proper pvp in low sec.
If you want pvp go fight someone that actually plays eve for pvp. High sec isn't that place, Dec shields are not a problem.
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
85
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Posted - 2012.01.13 13:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think CCP can actually use this to their advantage to increase paying customers.
Allot of peaceful honest people have bin lost over the years, Im guessing tens of millions of real world revenue was lost by CCP due to 4 year old characters going after the guy who still doesnt understand why he is being told to train for tech 2 fittings by the end of the year.
This should be the newb protection it should literally be put into the training missions that one goes through when they start on day one.
CCP, bring us more people to play with, consider all options. |
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Corporate GrimReaper
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.01.13 14:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Outz Xacto wrote:Can't tell if troll... or just stupid...
Most likely both. That would be like a billion to Concord to drop the war rather then pay the 200 to 500 million the dec'ers want. Considering that they can just war deck you again. 2 million to merc and griefer corporations is chump change to what they could when they succeed. This is just absolutely dumb.
CCP please do fix. I would like a mechanic where corporations can surrender to corps that war dec them and merge upon surrender. |
De Guillaume
Seven Minutes To Midnight. The Volition Cult
26
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Posted - 2012.01.13 14:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
does anyone actually offer an alliance service where they join and leave for a cost ;p sounds like a sound business plan. |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
7
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Posted - 2012.01.13 14:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:I think CCP can actually use this to their advantage to increase paying customers.
Allot of peaceful honest people have bin lost over the years, Im guessing tens of millions of real world revenue was lost by CCP due to 4 year old characters going after the guy who still doesnt understand why he is being told to train for tech 2 fittings by the end of the year.
This should be the newb protection it should literally be put into the training missions that one goes through when they start on day one.
CCP, bring us more people to play with, consider all options.
It does seem to be the un-written rule on these forums that if you don't activly PvP and look for PvP situations then you are playing the game wrong, and that anything that can limit people's exposure to PvP is "broken". EVE offers more player interaction than just shooting.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
129
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Posted - 2012.01.13 17:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP's newest theme is war, so I expect/hope they will alter wardec mechanics significantly over the next year.
Here's a couple founding guidelines I would suggest for wardecs:
Non-consentual PvP is an important part of EvE, and hisec wardecs are a good idea (even if the current implementation is problematic).
[Posting stuff I posted in another thread] I would think putting out general guidelines on what works, and what fails in the current wardec scheme would be very helpful to CCP.
Working as intended: Allowing an aggressor corp to wardec any Player corp they want. The only "safety" from wardecs comes from NPC corps. Mutual wardecs: RvB is an excellent example of working as intended wardecs!
Fails: Corp hopping: The ease at which corps can evade wardecs by jumping to another corp. Corp hopping: The ease at which aggressors can hop corps to weekend gank. Cost: The price of wardecs is laughably low. There is essentially no cost to wardecs.
Potential (not necessarily good) ideas:
Provide a disadvantage to the aggressing corp. Currently, price is NOT a disadvantage. -- NPC's can be bought to boot people out of stations in which their corp doesn't hold an office? (Meh) -- Players can NOT join an aggressing corp during one-sided wardecs? (+1) -- Additional concord taxes on all rewards and market transactions? (meh) -- War deccer's get standing penalties to factions based on the wardeccee's standings (i.e., dec a few +10 Amarr mission running corps, and your corp suddenly has -10 faction standings to Amarr, hence amarr police attack in amarr space) (+1, but hard to balance, there seems to be some support for this.. )
Regional/factional Wardecs? Each wardec is limited to a faction's space (Caldari, Amarr, etc)? (+/-)
Corp Life Risk vs Reward: -- Increase the benefits of being in a player corp vs NPC, but don't allow players to so quickly evade wardecs. -- Forcing players into unwanted fights is an awesome core value of the game, and should be maintained. -- Undeccable NPC corps are an excellent tool for players to live without wardec hassles. Personally, i think tools should exist to allow players to choose which NPC corp to join, but I'd also double the taxes of NPC corps.
Essentially, the benefits of creating a corp should be balanced with the risks of having its economic benefits and activities inhibited by wardecs. |
Corporate GrimReaper
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.01.13 17:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
De Guillaume wrote:does anyone actually offer an alliance service where they join and leave for a cost ;p sounds like a sound business plan.
I like the idea. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
252
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
James Mangeiri wrote:Outz Xacto wrote:Can't tell if troll... or just stupid... Just stupid. It was my corporation that he wardecced, and I guess it's made him quite upset. Better luck next time, pal! Let me rephrase that for you: "I use game mechanics in weird and cheesy ways to evade someone who wardecced me, and then call them stupid and act all big and such when they complain about it."
Congratulations, I suppose. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
45
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Its not an expoit just a way to laugh at bad high sec pvpers to **** to jump into proper pvp in low sec.
If you want pvp go fight someone that actually plays eve for pvp. High sec isn't that place, Dec shields are not a problem.
There should be no safe place in EVE, so high sec war decs can serve a valuable purpose. They do get abused by both sides the dec'er and those avoiding them. so the issues need to be better sorted IMO.
A start might be to have some sort of a Concord fee to join an alliance if your corp is war dec'd and then give the dec'er a option to restart the war dec at a lowered price if that corp then leaves the alliance with-in a certain time period . As far as war dec prices go, it should cost much more to actively war dec multiple corps/alliances than it does but the price for a single war dec should be a bit lower. The war dec'er should also get a partial reimbursement for a Concord invalidated war dec.
Also just for giggles I'll toss in the support ships like logistics or remote sensor boosting ships should gain aggression and not be able to dock for 1 min just like the guy doing the initial aggression. This would make station games in both high sec & low sec much less homosexual and require actual risk for the guys whom like to play Docking Bear.
EVE is about risk vs reward, so why is it very little risk to play docking games using carrier or logistic alts? |
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal Dec Shield
92
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Corporate GrimReaper wrote:De Guillaume wrote:does anyone actually offer an alliance service where they join and leave for a cost ;p sounds like a sound business plan. I like the idea. Yes, this is exactly what we do. Except it's free. In fact, we are the ones directly responsible for this thread being generated. We shielded his victim and he sent us hatemail. Amusingly, we actually completely agree with his viewpoint. Wardecs are very broken, and we're all for raising awareness and trying to get CCP to change.
You find find the thread here Free Wardec Removal |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
2
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Posted - 2012.01.13 21:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
ITT: Tears over not being able to produce tears in others.
Not that it hasn't been said already but yes the system has issues, but the OPs reasons for why this is an issue is what makes it delicious. |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.01.13 22:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Baron Xenos wrote:currently, the wardec system in eve is very broken and silly, and is in much need of remake. this aside, there is one major exploit that completely undermines the system and makes wardeccing anyone that knows about it impossible. situation: corp1 decs corp2 corp 2 does not want to be in a war all corp 2 has to do is join an alliance, and the wardec transferrs to said alliance. (assume 1 man 1 corp alliance) then corp 2 leaves the alliance and is considered to have "surrendered" to corp 1, and is no longer in a wardec with them. this essentially makes it easy to get rid of wardecs whenever you want, or if it is being offered as a service, puts a price on getting rid of a wardec that does not include paying the corp that wardecced you. this is a blatantly obvious exploit that makes the money that corp 1 spent to dec corp 2 basically disappear for nothing, and needs to be patched out of the game asap. Gizznitt Malikite wrote: CCP is fully aware of Dec Shields... And how they can be abused.
This is not the only way in which wardec's are broken, and CCP is aware these issues:
1.) Dec Shields: The mechanic you described. 2.) Corp Hopping: Corp A wardecs Corp B. Out of Corp Pilot hunts down a member of Corp B, joins Corp A, does something to create a session change (otherwise this is an official exploit), and then attacks that member of Corp B (Legally). 3.) Corp Hopping: Wardeced Members of Corp B just jump to another corp, avoiding the wardec... 4.) The cost of wardecs is negligible...
Claiming that these problems are well known and not making an effort to get the support to get ccp to fix these is just dumb. the point of this thread is to not only tell those who do not know, but also possibly draw ccp's attention and get them to fix these issues. James Mangeiri wrote:Outz Xacto wrote:Can't tell if troll... or just stupid... Just stupid. It was my corporation that he wardecced, and I guess it's made him quite upset. Better luck next time, pal! lol its really not that big of a deal. its sad that you were so scared to fight what is literally a one man corp. all 54 members of your corp must have been shaking in their boots in order for you to desparately search forums for a way to get out. the fact that you can get out of decs for free on demand must make you feel reel tuff. its only 2m, but its an inconvenience because the corps leaving blocks up my wardecs slot so i have to wait to do more. i didnt even dec your corp for a reason besides the fact that you had active members and a good number in corp. tough carebear talk more ****. have fun with those rocks and stuff lol. PLEASE BUMP THIS THREAD AND MAKE CCP NOTICE. very simple change for them to do, and is an obviously needed fix.
The problem the 1 man corp war dec is making use of other exploit mechanics for the weaselly hisec"PVPers". They have other members with corp apps in, but not accepted, find you, get close, 1 man corp accepts app, suddenly you have a dozen wt's on your ass..
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Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
93
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Posted - 2012.01.14 01:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Wardecs are more than just people griefing fools in hisec.
For instance, Moar Tears, 0rphanage, Double Tap. and NoirDOT are hired by the big nullsec alliances to grief their foes in hisec, deny market hubs to mains (and in some cases, suicide known hauler alts), and generally deny the safety of hisec to the enemies of their employers. In essence, the squabbles and nonconsensual handjobbing going on in nullsec is telescoped to Hisec via proxies - this gives people who can't go more than 10km away from the undock of Amarr EFA someone to shoot, which is a kind of charity for the mentally disabled.
Of course, the more inept the nullsec alliance, the more there is for the hisec station-hugging cripples to do. For instance, when your alliance leaders decide to attack someone else, and they get surprised that there's a cascade of decs, you really wonder why they haven't hired the mercs themselves beforehand to choke their foes' logistics, rather than have their own in turn japecaged. So, again, only idiots suffer.
The same goes for people who are conducting wars in w-space on systems that connect to hisec. I have never, yet, seen someone hire mercs or drop a dec on their enemies while sieging a hisec static wormhole, to deny their enemies the luxury of playing silly buggers on the hisec.
Sure. There's a bunch of noob corps run by newbs who get decced by people fishing for cheap ganks, and there IS a huge sense of schadenfreunde and luls to be gained by deccing a corp or alliance and seeing it dissolve like a hundred cockroaches escaping the bug spray. You know that not all of them will rejoin once the fight is over, and thus you get the warm sense of accomplishment from making people quit a failcorp.
Psychotic Monk is right, to some extent - there should be no shame in dropping corp and rejoining if the war get too hot for you. Nor should people get het up about their corp having DecShield in its alliance history. Its a vlid tactic, and if your CEO is too dumb, ignorant and prideful to utilise all the tactics available to him to wage war....well, you should find nother corp.
Example, Sudden Buggery decced Dee Alliance. Within 2 days they had shed 3 corps and half their members. They had hired No Kings and Double Tap. We stuck it out for a week, had a couple of GF's. We knew that it cost Dee Alliance 3 billion to hire those two merc outfits and it cost us 150M to dec an alliance - that's the kind of efficiency we expect, to be honest, 95%. No Kings didn't extend their dec to a second week, but Double Tap. did, costing them another packet of money. Within 10 minutes of that I had applied to DecShield and 48hrs later we were clear of our decs, ready to go to town on Dee Alliance again.
The strategy is pretty clear - once pride is out of the equation all that is left is the fact that a whole alliance of 350 guys evaporated down to perhaps 80 alts, and they spent 6 billion ISK defending themselves against 50 toons, 75% of which were alts. More fool them, they'd have done better just wearing a couple of drubbings on the field of battle.
The best bit was when their standings all reset when their corps dropped alliance, and people lost half a dozen ships in lowsec to their respective POS's.
This is war in hisec. Learn to do it properly.
I do agree that people need to educate noobs more about wardecs and tactics to avoid dying unneccessarily and getting frustrated with the game and quitting the game. This is an unfortunate side-effect of the current mechanics.
I think 2M ISk for a corp to dec another corp is too cheap. It should be 2M ISK per week per toon.
I also think you should not be able to insta-join corp or insta-leave in a war. There should be a 24hr timer each way. This will hurt Skunkworks and Moar Tears and so on, but really, if there's 24hr timer for a corp why not the individuals in the corp? If someone's going to join a mail should go out to his would-be foes to warm them a new participant is joining the war. This will solve a huge part of the problem, IMO The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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Cardval Simalia
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.01.16 01:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
All war dec probs fixed with a 5 or 7 day timer on changing corp and allince. |
Gravecall
Nordic Innovations BLACK-MARK
0
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Posted - 2012.01.16 13:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
I would suggest the following changes:
Higher cost (2mil isk is pitiful, there needs to be a real cost to a bad choice of target)
Longer time from dec to live so both sides have plenty of time to make their preparations.
Lock down both sides memberships once the declaration is made, or perhaps have a cost to accepting any new members for the duration of the wardec (with members who leave in turn having to pay a fine to get out). Same on alliance hopping for the duration of the war.
Minimum duration of weeks, not like the current system where the wardec only went live and gets cancelled, it needs to be a real strategic decision, not spur of the moment.
Have it managed by the holders of space instead of Concord, e.g. register it with the Caldari state and it only applies within their space, make war decs in others' space and it will apply there too. This in turn would allow reputation mechanics, such that depending on the standings of the corps/alliances with respect to the local powers-that-be the wardec could be more/less expensive.
Basically make it such that both wardeccers and targets need to work to make the most of/survive it, no easy griefing/wimping out on the easy targets or ducking under the umbrella of a questionable alliance membership mechanic. |
Mara Villoso
Big Box
62
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 15:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mara Villoso wrote:Quoting myself from similar threads: Mara Villoso wrote:Have you ever heard the expression, GÇ£You can lead a horse to water, but you canGÇÖt make him drinkGÇ¥? The fundamental issue here is that some people just donGÇÖt want to fight. The devs and GMs and mercenaries may wish otherwise and may seek to find ways to force the issue, but those efforts are doomed to failure.
If a dec mechanic locked a corporation into an alliance (or out of one) and locked every single member into that corporation for the duration of the war, it would only lead to people leaving the game. The only result of a push to force people to PvP is that there will be no PvP from those people. ItGÇÖs just not going to happen. Just like its not happening now, just like it hasnGÇÖt been happening for years. The change to wardec policing changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that canGÇÖt be taken down quickly, and those who donGÇÖt know better. ThatGÇÖs it.
CCP should spend a little time gathering information from those players about why they donGÇÖt want to fight. Or under what conditions they would.
At the end of the day, this is what weGÇÖre really talking about when weGÇÖre talking about wardec shields and evasion. Like it or not, you can lead a carebear to war, but you canGÇÖt make him fight.
Mara Villoso wrote:Wardecs have always been and will always be pointless. As long as they follow the corp and not the player, they can and will be evaded. In effect, this means wardecs affect only people who care about their corp name, have a POS they can't take down quickly, and the clueless. Any change to wardecs that makes them against individuals will lead to those people leaving the game. They don't want to fight. They aren't going to fight. There is nothing you or CCP can do to make them. Period. The End. There is no fix for wardecs. Just get rid of them. Ganking is, was, and will always be the only way to get individuals.
The only failing of the change to wardec policing by the GMs is POS destruction. The only solutions that are needed are ones that make POS bashing in hisec possible.
Whenever I hear about extending decs to individual pilots, I just shake my head in amazement. What is it that you think will happen? People avoid decs for a reason. They're not interested in fighting. So what happens when the war gets tagged on to the character? Do these people magically decide to change several year's worth of behavior and playstyle and come out with guns blazing? The potential for never ending griefing that goes with putting decs (or kill rights) on individuals is simply too great and its effect is all too predictable.
If you want to kill something, get your ass to losec/nosec. PvP'ers in hisec are making a paradoxical argument: they want to kill whomever they please, but they don't want non-consensual PvP from anyone else. Choose one or the other; you're either for non-consensual PvP for all or for none.
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Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
12
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Posted - 2012.01.18 00:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Idea:
The warring corp starts an alt service alliance that offers to shield corps from their war decs for a fee. Say 5 mil. You pay the alliance 5 mil and they shield you from your war. No corp hoping you just get in and then get out. No war.
While at the same time they continue to dec people and make 3 mil for every corp that joins their alt alliance to avoid the war dec. And those that don't join the alt alliance are targets. Seems like a good business model. |
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
38
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Posted - 2012.01.18 01:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Schalac wrote:Idea:
The warring corp starts an alt service alliance that offers to shield corps from their war decs for a fee. Say 5 mil. You pay the alliance 5 mil and they shield you from your war. No corp hoping you just get in and then get out. No war.
While at the same time they continue to dec people and make 3 mil for every corp that joins their alt alliance to avoid the war dec. And those that don't join the alt alliance are targets. Seems like a good business model.
I like how you think. Get some startup capitol and get going already :D Naga stole my bike!
Talos, the official Pizza Wedge of the Gallente Federation. |
Cardval Simalia
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.01.18 08:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
War dec discussion is irrelevant. Creating corp and alliance timers and making them 7 days would end 99.9% of war exploits. With a 7 day corp and alliance change timer you would no longer have exploiters jumping around every war dec. |
Muestereate
Two Geezers in Space
8
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Posted - 2012.01.18 10:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
I always considered members leaving a corp the same as a loss. The lost taxes as a percentage of pre war taxes is a loss. Keeping corp standing for HI Sec pos flexibility was important. Surrender was not an option, mergers were unthinkable too.
Right now we don't have set ways to measure war success on the offense or defense side. I would think any future mechanic would need to include an ingame war dec scorecard that measures parameters like this. Killboard losses are only part of the story.
This stuff really boils down to corporation mechanics as well as war mechanics. We need more tools to measure and manage parameters like thiese and we also need to come up with more that we kinda agree upon or we'll end up with another bad system. I think Indy guys need the corp interface more than a pvp corp and the corp guys need to share where the bad man is touching us :)
This problem is deeper than the surface we see. |
Tora Bushido
Count With Teddy Mercenaries
7
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:I also think you should not be able to insta-join corp or insta-leave in a war. There should be a 24hr timer each way. This will hurt Skunkworks and Moar Tears and so on, but really, if there's 24hr timer for a corp why not the individuals in the corp? If someone's going to join a mail should go out to his would-be foes to warm them a new participant is joining the war. This will solve a huge part of the problem, IMO
Agreed ... before you know it, you lock a monk who just dropped corp
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Sahara Uhuru
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 12:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
From a Carebear Point of view, why should you do corp hopping when you can just pay some competent mercs to kick your deccer's arse?
They dec you and demand isk to stop the war, you give isk to mercs and the mercs give you killmails. you pay isk to get tears
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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
116
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Posted - 2012.01.18 12:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
I just wanted to point out to the OP, that hoping in an out of a Dec Shield isn't free. Those cost 1Billion isk to set up. |
Fairhand
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 12:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
One idea that I will throw in for consideration... Anti-WarDec Insurance.
CEO pays an isk premium to an NPC Agency to put a multiplier on the cost of any (potential) incoming wardecs during the period of insurance.
The insurance would need to be purchased in advance, the deccer would not know what insurance (if any) was in place prior to making a dec vote and the insurance would be consumed in the event of a dec that was successfully activated against the corp.
There might be the cheap "bronze" 2x multiplier, the premium "gold" 8x and so on. This would represent hiring expensive lawyers in advance to make waging war more expensive for the deccer - tidying up stray munitions, paying for recovery costs of wreckage and biomass, environmental protection and so on.
An idea worth throwing into the mix or just a nuisance? |
Fighter26
Orion's Fist RED.Legion
6
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Posted - 2012.01.18 16:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Get out of high sec broskis. |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
101
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Posted - 2012.01.19 00:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fairhand wrote:One idea that I will throw in for consideration... Anti-WarDec Insurance.
An idea worth throwing into the mix or just a nuisance?
I can't see anything wrong with this concept. If you want to sit in hisec and be free of war, either you pay for your own mercs, or you stump up to make the cost of deccing you more expensive. This will not deter everyone, and nor should it, but would up the price and deter casual fishing expeditions.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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Kagan Storm
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
51
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Posted - 2012.01.21 10:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:
There is no reason for anyone to be in a corp in highsec. There is no advantage of it.
You are blind
Psychotic Monk wrote: The only thing of even marginal utility is the corp hanger system, which can be handled on the fly with contracts. Even if a corp has a POS up, it's most likely just a hobby-garden, and if it's actually being used, one or two well skilled industry toons can use it to full capacity, meaning it need not be a corp thing so much as a side project for an individual that requires there be a corp in order for it to be put up.
Orca hangar cannot be used if not in corp. Rather hard to contract stuff that is in a can in space seriously WFT? you hit your head to many times?
Psychotic Monk wrote: Consequently, there's absolutely no reason other than pride or ignorance that someone shouldn't be willing to drop corp the instant it's a disadvantage to be in one. I know for Skunks, for instance, the actual corp only exists as a platform for wardecs. We don't need it. All of the actual corp goings-on are discussed in player made channels and Teamspeak. If the actual corp of Skunkworks disappeared in a horrific gardening accident, we would mourn the loss of a badass name and otherwise continue on without missing a step.
You are a mushroom. Dident you notice all MMOs intaled latley a ton of fun things you can use so you DONT have to use TS, forum, dark rooms and so forth all as means of bringing game stuff back into a game and not making a game end event of a long forum troling darkroom backdoor bandid claok and dagger whatever...
Psychotic Monk wrote: I don't have a proposal for a solution yet, but I'm giving it some serious thought, and CCP should be doing the same. (Monk for CSM)
You fail at thinking please stop it. My ego is the the size of my carriers jump range. |
magic preacher
Concentrated Evil Mining For Profit Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.01.21 11:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
De Guillaume wrote:does anyone actually offer an alliance service where they join and leave for a cost ;p sounds like a sound business plan.
we will offer this service to any corp that is war decced by another corp or alliance, for a reasonable price we are not free but what you are paying for is our merc services, while saving the cost of us war deccing your aggressor,a cost that would normally be passed on to you. Any payment made to us is a one time payment once you have left our alliance, you will be re-admitted for free in event you are war decced again by the same corp/alliance please mail me in game with the name of your aggressor
link to KB http://concentratedevil.griefwatch.net/?p=campaigns
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BrokenBC
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 03:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
I used to be into high sec war decing.But then I took a null sec to the knee. |
Gabba Cyno
10
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Posted - 2012.01.22 20:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
You guys complain about war decs being avoided but what about the neutral kestrel that will web/scram your freighter/JF and then log on their war target mains and scan you down and kill you? OMG Exploit!!! . |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
1277
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Its not an expoit just a way to laugh at bad high sec pvpers to **** to jump into proper pvp in low sec.
If you want pvp go fight someone that actually plays eve for pvp. High sec isn't that place, Dec shields are not a problem.
You should be declared KOS. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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