Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 10:23:00 -
[1]
Ok, the Deimos could have a bit more agility and speed, but more powergrid it's a bit overpowered, isn't? and ok, Zealot get a few more powergrid to avoid amarr whine, ok... but, WHAT ZEALOT HAVE LACK OF IS CPU, NOT POWERGRID!
________________________________________
|
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:08:00 -
[2]
Jepp, its pretty pointless, it's like giving someone in the desert sand instead water.
And it could really use a 25m¦ dronebay to compete with the deimos, ishtar, vaga and sac now.
|
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:37:00 -
[3]
I can't understand the Zealot buff, remove the 90 pg boost and put 10 cpu instead... ________________________________________
|
doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 11:46:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kerdrak I can't understand the Zealot buff, remove the 90 pg boost and put 10 cpu instead...
I vote for both :)
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
Altamekz
Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 12:42:00 -
[5]
More Powergrid on zealot? why? If It is the first thing that come to your mind for buff zealot, than you really dunno nothing about the ship you changing.
Plz reconsider
|
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:12:00 -
[6]
I think the problem is, that the Zealot is meant to fit 2-3 setups, and these dont need more cpu. Both have no mwd (a bit sucky i know), but sport heavy weapons and a good tank. The problem is neuts. Btw the third setup has a mwd, no problem with neuts and does 5km/s with rigs ^^ No cpu needed for me, but i wouldnt say no to more :D ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Maller: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus -Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 13:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aramendel Jepp, its pretty pointless, it's like giving someone in the desert sand instead water.
And it could really use a 25m¦ dronebay to compete with the deimos, ishtar, vaga and sac now.
25 cubes and a turret...
|
Deva Blackfire
Citadel of dark arts
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 03/08/2007 14:04:58
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Aramendel Jepp, its pretty pointless, it's like giving someone in the desert sand instead water.
And it could really use a 25m¦ dronebay to compete with the deimos, ishtar, vaga and sac now.
25 cubes and a turret...
Meh you dont know how to haggle :S Start with 3 more turrets ...
As for turret or 25m3 bay: 5 small t2 drones do 75 more dps. So i guess thats one or the other.
|
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Goumindong on 03/08/2007 14:30:23
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 03/08/2007 14:04:58
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Aramendel Jepp, its pretty pointless, it's like giving someone in the desert sand instead water.
And it could really use a 25m¦ dronebay to compete with the deimos, ishtar, vaga and sac now.
25 cubes and a turret...
Meh you dont know how to haggle :S Start with 3 more turrets ...
As for turret or 25m3 bay: 5 small t2 drones do 75 more dps. So i guess thats one or the other.
99 dps actualy. At least thermal drones.
But anyway. I dont start at a position i wont accept because its not honest. 3 More turrets is ridiculous and would completly overpower the Zealot[its a 75% damage boost]. The Zealot doesnt need a damage boost of that magnitude. It needs 25% to compensate for the Muninns crazy alpha strike in the long range. It needs 25 cubes to compensate for the Deimos's 50 cubes and the Vagabonds and Muninns 25. The extra low can no longer be considered a 23% damage increase like it was previously[all those years ago, before the stacking nerf]. So you have a ship that is anemic in the short range and throughly outperformed in the long range without these 25 cubes and a turret. Leaves the Zealot with no role thb.
[Eagle and Cerb need work as well, but that is a different thread]
|
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 14:46:00 -
[10]
I think this is a chain-of-whine avoiding manipulation.
1-"Amarr needs a fix" 2-"Khanid get a boost" 3-"Gallente is no so uber and whiners come to the forum" <- they fix the Deimos 4-"Deimos overpowerd it's superior to Zealot" <- they "boost" the Zealot too to avoid another whine thread, but the fail boosting.
5-Massive Ctrl+Z? ________________________________________
|
|
zero2espect
Amarr Infinitus Odium The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 15:48:00 -
[11]
more proof that there cannot be a single dev who plays as amarr. this is unbelievable.
//sometimes less is more...zero
|
Spoony Brook
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 20:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Spoony Brook on 03/08/2007 20:58:31
Originally by: Kerdrak I think this is a chain-of-whine avoiding manipulation.
1-"Amarr needs a fix" 2-"Khanid get a boost" 3-"Gallente is no so uber and whiners come to the forum" <- they fix the Deimos 4-"Deimos overpowerd it's superior to Zealot" <- they "boost" the Zealot too to avoid another whine thread, but the fail boosting.
5-Massive Ctrl+Z?
actually the majority of deimos pilots just wanted a speed and agility increse, and have been asking for it for over a year and a half, so it was no longer the slowest Hac (slower than the t1 version as well), with the shortest range weapons, and the agility of a battlecruiser.
could the increse in pg possibly be a indication of CCP adding another turret to the ship? ---------------
|
britchie
Gallente The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 21:01:00 -
[13]
I think they are both fine. Just dont fly the deimos alone. Thy can both work very well If you fit them right.
Does anyone know how to get my name capitalized? |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 21:48:00 -
[14]
Quote: actually the majority of deimos pilots just wanted a speed and agility increse, and have been asking for it for over a year and a half, so it was no longer the slowest Hac (slower than the t1 version as well), with the shortest range weapons, and the agility of a battlecruiser.
Funny thing was the deimos wasnt the slowest HAC... think cerb and eagle.... It also can fit rail guns. The deimos was fine as it was, now its broken. The 50m3 drone bay just puts it over the top.
|
Spoony Brook
The Really Awesome Players
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 22:31:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Spoony Brook on 03/08/2007 22:34:32
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote: actually the majority of deimos pilots just wanted a speed and agility increse, and have been asking for it for over a year and a half, so it was no longer the slowest Hac (slower than the t1 version as well), with the shortest range weapons, and the agility of a battlecruiser.
Funny thing was the deimos wasnt the slowest HAC... think cerb and eagle.... It also can fit rail guns. The deimos was fine as it was, now its broken. The 50m3 drone bay just puts it over the top.
deimos base speed: 170: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/heavyassaultships/gallente/12023.asp Eagle base speed: 175: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/heavyassaultships/caldari/12011.asp Cerberus base speed 185: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/heavyassaultships/caldari/11993.asp
thats a -10ms drop from the thorax http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/ships/cruisers/gallente/627.asp
(in fact the sac was the slowest, but with the recent Khanid Mk.2, it got boosted to 205m/s, making the deimos the slowest)
yea you can fit railguns... but it gimps the ship of which is described as "the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat" so you would think it should be faster than caldari, you know that race with the big heavy slow snipers
if no-ones had a problem the 50m3 drone bay on the thorax, why should it matter here? sure the ship can give crazy dps, but the fact that 2 medium nos could shut the ship down, before it could get into weapons range. (nos nerf has helped this ship a lot, but thats a different matter) now neuts will do the same thing, you kill the ships cap its and its a pretty boom ---------------
|
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
|
Posted - 2007.08.03 23:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 03/08/2007 23:23:24 the thorax's drone bay has also always bothered me. Actually the sheer suckiness of the moa has always gotten to me. It was my first cruiser, my first love. And it was a POS. Anyways, mass is what its all about. The deimos was plenty fast with a mwd. It would do around 1500 m/s, and imo the ship does so much damage it needs a draw back. Now you will see 2000 m/s deimos with 1600mm plate.... Its going to be broken, oh well thats why I no longer fly caldari.
|
True Ace
Gallente Blood Moon Masques Lunar Dominion
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 00:51:00 -
[17]
way i see it, the extra pg for the zealot should allow u guys to fit beams. deimos was in need of a buff. a blaster ship shouldnt be slower than long range ships of the same class case closed. pg increase was to put it inline with the pg increase of other HACs compared to their t1 counterpart. really it seems caldari players want a close range ship when close range has nothing to do with caldari. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 02:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Goumindong on 04/08/2007 02:03:42
Originally by: True Ace way i see it, the extra pg for the zealot should allow u guys to fit beams. deimos was in need of a buff. a blaster ship shouldnt be slower than long range ships of the same class case closed. pg increase was to put it inline with the pg increase of other HACs compared to their t1 counterpart. really it seems caldari players want a close range ship when close range has nothing to do with caldari.
The zealot could already fit a full rack of heavy beams an mwd, and mar without grid problems. It had tonnes of grid, so much grid it could pretty much never have to worry about it. The thing had 100 more grid than the current sisi deimos and 1 less turret. It could never use all the grid it had due to cap[try running its guns and an Mar and mwd(which is necessary to get out of range of nastier ships)] or design[reppers dont help in fleets]
Why it has so much grid, i dont really know, but its got a damn lot of it.
|
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 06:46:00 -
[19]
Quote: way i see it, the extra pg for the zealot should allow u guys to fit beams. deimos was in need of a buff. a blaster ship shouldnt be slower than long range ships of the same class case closed. pg increase was to put it inline with the pg increase of other HACs compared to their t1 counterpart. really it seems caldari players want a close range ship when close range has nothing to do with caldari.
How the heck does anything else dictate range then? It should not just be I mwd up to you effortlessly and bam i'm in you face and I win.... Deimos was fine. If you flew with a tackler, you could gank a lot of ****... Well hopefully its now anothre gallente solo own mobile, you guys dont have enough.
|
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 12:01:00 -
[20]
No matter what you try to fit in the new Zealot, you get out of CPU all the time and lot of PG to spare... It's simply have no sense... ________________________________________
|
|
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 16:34:00 -
[21]
it has enough cpu if you get away from the "every ship needs a 44tf warp scrambler and 3x 30tf heat sinks and the omg i need the 40tf mwd all the time to dictate my 105km range ...
get over it. no i dont fit faction. no i like a mwd too. but thats just how it is, no solo pwn. ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 18:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Perry it has enough cpu if you get away from the "every ship needs a 44tf warp scrambler and 3x 30tf heat sinks and the omg i need the 40tf mwd all the time to dictate my 105km range ...
get over it. no i dont fit faction. no i like a mwd too. but thats just how it is, no solo pwn.
Your arguments would be right if all gallente ships (now we talk about the Deimos) would havethe same problem, but no, gallente ships can fit everything you talk about. ________________________________________
|
Lock out
Bald Industrial Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:30:00 -
[23]
This buff confuses me as well... I can't think of any setups I'd use on the Zealot with which I would run out of grid before CPU. The ship needs more CPU if anything, especially after the EANM nerf. |
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:33:00 -
[24]
Yes in certain cases gallente ships have way too much recources (eos, myrm, domi etc), but the Blasterships have a weak point, they need to approach and web their target. This costs time. In a very small gang or solo, this is good because it gives you the edge of good dps and tackle. In a larger gang, the amarr ships start shooting with scorch at 20-30km and melt evrything without moving one meter. The Blaster ship is suddenly in the optimal of many ships, while having only one enemy in its own. Thats the whole balance betwen amarr and gallente. Sometimes this doenst hold true, if you compare overpowered ships with mediocre. Then you must whine on forums. But the Zealot is fine now in my opinion. Still lacking in dps/alpha in beam fitting, but a good pulse platform with 30km range. ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Lord Matrix
PBA Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:41:00 -
[25]
Zealot: It has plenty of PG. I'd be happy with a fifth turret and a drone bay instead. Deimos: Dunno as I don't fly one.
------------------------------------------------------------------ What good have you done for the EVE community today? |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Perry Yes in certain cases gallente ships have way too much recources (eos, myrm, domi etc), but the Blasterships have a weak point, they need to approach and web their target. This costs time. In a very small gang or solo, this is good because it gives you the edge of good dps and tackle. In a larger gang, the amarr ships start shooting with scorch at 20-30km and melt evrything without moving one meter. The Blaster ship is suddenly in the optimal of many ships, while having only one enemy in its own. Thats the whole balance betwen amarr and gallente. Sometimes this doenst hold true, if you compare overpowered ships with mediocre. Then you must whine on forums. But the Zealot is fine now in my opinion. Still lacking in dps/alpha in beam fitting, but a good pulse platform with 30km range.
If the megahtron and geddon are balanced where the Geddon has a stronger range advantage in a ship class that is stronger, and the Geddon has the same number of turrets, drones, and a better dps quality bonus, then how can the Zealot be balanced with faster ship speeds, a smaller range advantage, no drones, and one less turret than the Diemos?
|
Dapanman1
Amarr Beets' Auxillary Industries
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Perry Yes in certain cases gallente ships have way too much recources (eos, myrm, domi etc), but the Blasterships have a weak point, they need to approach and web their target. This costs time. In a very small gang or solo, this is good because it gives you the edge of good dps and tackle. In a larger gang, the amarr ships start shooting with scorch at 20-30km and melt evrything without moving one meter. The Blaster ship is suddenly in the optimal of many ships, while having only one enemy in its own. Thats the whole balance betwen amarr and gallente. Sometimes this doenst hold true, if you compare overpowered ships with mediocre. Then you must whine on forums. But the Zealot is fine now in my opinion. Still lacking in dps/alpha in beam fitting, but a good pulse platform with 30km range.
If the megahtron and geddon are balanced where the Geddon has a stronger range advantage in a ship class that is stronger, and the Geddon has the same number of turrets, drones, and a better dps quality bonus, then how can the Zealot be balanced with faster ship speeds, a smaller range advantage, no drones, and one less turret than the Diemos?
Admitedly I didnt read your whole post, so don't know what your point was, but youre comparing a tier 1 BS with a tier 2. Any point based on that foundation really isn't going to hold much.
Zealot is fine, imo, if they want to give me another turret i could go for that, but I don't want extra powergrid if someone down the line is going to use that to say Zealot got a boost. CCP leave it alone or give it a turret I don't care which but dont try to say this is a boost.
Beets, you're among friends. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:13:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Goumindong on 04/08/2007 21:16:47 Ugg. Tier means nothing.
If the geddon is balanced against the Megathron, in a ship class that is slower, where the Geddon has more of a range advantage over the Megathron than the Zealot does the Deimos, then how in the world can anyhting but a Zealot with 5 turrets, 2 damage bonuses, and a 50 cube drone bay be considered balanced?
Lasers advantage is range. Which translates into a damage advantage which is extracted during the time that others are closing towards the target. Slower ships with bigger range differentials have a larger damage advantage and a larger relative damage advantage.
So if the Geddon has a bigger advantage from lasers, then how can it be balanced if the Zealot is. One or the other is imbalanced. Since its accepted the Geddon is balanced, the Zealot must not be.
The point is:
Geddon = balanced w/ thron Geddon = more advantage from lasers over thron, than Zealot over diemos Geddon = same number of turrets, + same number of drones.
So how can you consider the Diemos and Zealot balanced? I mean, its that or the Geddon must be horribly overpowered and need 0 drones and 5 turrets instead of 125 cubes.
This is clearly not the case. Such the Zealot has a tiny damage advantage over the Diemos before it can close.
It really needs 25 cubes and a turret.
|
Lord Loom
Loom Service Derek Knows Us
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:49:00 -
[29]
- boost Deimos more to bring it in line with other Gallente ships, it doesn't own enough yet
- Zealot needs more PG so people without AWU can fit it!
- Muninn and Eagle are balanced, it's good nobody is talking about them let alone thinking about boosting them since they already have their huge, awesome "lol frigate *pop*" niche
keep up the good work CCP! *thumbsup* ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
|
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:05:00 -
[30]
I think the reason for having the geddon with similar stats as the mega is that both are t1 and have not enough bonus' to set them apart. for example the range bonus is really needed to outrange blasters with null. a geddon with multi lenses has similar range to a neutron mega wil null, so both need the same strength to be balanced.
The zealot on the other hand has the needed range to use the pulse lasers like they were intended. medium range medium damage. but a small drone bay wouldnt hurt i think ^^ ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |