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Hank Showbo
Neyi Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.05 12:36:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hank Showbo on 05/08/2007 12:36:28 Problem: Many newbies go Caldari; one because of thier description in the character selection screen makes them sound somewhat of the race to the if you want to rip things to shreds (which is quite the opposite) and; two, because they are the best at PvE, and therefore best isk making with shooting things included.
So you get most of EvE being Caldari, and that means lots of rich newbies, with isk only to spend on ships that are only good in gangs/fleets, that means more and more going into big blobs when they look for PvP, and more and more staying in empire most of thier EvE 'career'.
Solution: Fix the Caldari description, so that this does not sound like the clear PvP option.
Please give the other 3 races something decent to PvE in, without it taking 3-4 months to get the SP to do it well, the Drake right now can do level 4's which is crappy.
Change a Caldari ship, so its pretty good solo too.
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Kye Kenshin
Martial.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 13:03:00 -
[2]
I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 14:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
friggin great post.
Only you can save mmorpgs - Stop crying for nerfs today! |
Ravenal
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:08:00 -
[4]
tbh the pve capabilities of the raven are so great because there arent that many defences vs missiles and those that work vs missiles also work vs turrets. It does not however work the other way around, that is you have no defence system that works well against missiles but not turrets.
No, defenders dont work. If they would work well though things might be different.
sig rad and speed does turrets worse than it does missiles... having some attrib that makes missiles less effective and turrets more effective would be interesting (point defence system and chaff module system could affect that attrib or something)
:S
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Valerian Xavier
Moloko.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
/signed
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LMAAAOOOO
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
QFT
I was going to choose Gallente, then I saw the "french origin" part, i was all EWWWWWWW, so I chose Caldari (because they're americans and we americans own all!) _______________________________________________
Originally by: murder one lmaaaoooo has made it into my sig.
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Dred 'Morte
Winds of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.08.05 17:19:00 -
[7]
Actually, they are finnish.
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Fager
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 17:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by:****er on 05/08/2007 17:23:42
Originally by: Ravenal tbh the pve capabilities of the raven are so great because there arent that many defences vs missiles and those that work vs missiles also work vs turrets. It does not however work the other way around, that is you have no defence system that works well against missiles but not turrets.
No, defenders dont work. If they would work well though things might be different.
sig rad and speed does turrets worse than it does missiles... having some attrib that makes missiles less effective and turrets more effective would be interesting (point defence system and chaff module system could affect that attrib or something)
:S
actually try shooting cruiser missies against npcs... and watch how 3/6 of ever volley gets demolished by a sick NPC that throws 3 defenders at each volley..
NPC defenders work great and decreases Cruiser DPS ALOT.. thats why torps are sometimes prefered but has other drawbacks vs cruisermissies. And if you want player defender missiles improved and nerf Missies in PvP... then its another matter. But since missies are so underused in PvP anyway why would you waste highs to defend a system not used...
Kinda like there are so few shield tanks in PvP and that sucks for amarr laserpewpew since all they get to shoot at is armortanks and EWAR.
Guns do great dmg, but they cant solo lvl 4 becouse there guns kill only certain amount of the fleet faster... While missies work at all ranges.
Also you cant kill elite frigs with big full salvos of TORPS, perhaps with cruisers. unless you get a lucky hit wich for somereasons sometimes onevolleys frigs but rarely the elite ones. They will outtank you. This can be changed with some skill training in missiles and drones however. So it doesnt really give the Raven a less value. Just wanted to say that Missies isnt all that on its own.
Missies greates advantage in PvE is it works at 10km and at 50km and all in between, this is where NPC BS/BC/cruiser stay at. Imagine if only cruiser and frig got in close and BS BC had range... this would be a really good buff for Guns since you could dish out good DPS at the big and use drones at the short and small.
There are some nice lazer boats out there (my friend uses them) that will outperform my Raven in both tank and speed. He needs ****loads more SP thou.. and also only does missions faster then me aslong as it isnt Angels couse they are explosive NPCs and lazers suck against them.
Missies dont hit everything, it hits alot but with no dmg and it hits the rest with mediocre dmg but still what it does dmg to it doesnt matter the range... only size.
/rant
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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Hank Showbo
Neyi Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.05 17:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
Your suggestion would improve lag, and make missions more fun so;
signed.
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DarkXenon
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
/nice ideas
Yes there description needs to be sorted! I'm lucky the first week of eve I wanted to be a miner and choose gallente. I think alot of people would have chosen otherwise if they knew caldari was the kings at 'PVE' only.
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:29:00 -
[11]
I find personally that Caldari are excellent ISK-makers. It's chaining them thats difficult .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.08.05 19:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone I find personally that Caldari are excellent ISK-makers. It's chaining them thats difficult .
that's because you're doing it wrong... what you're ment to do is camp where they spawn (you need a rather uber tank for this) and just sit and wait depending where you camp you cna make shed loads of isk but it's pretty high risk
p.s. it helps if you have someone else to tank concord for you
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Jak Silverheart
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.05 20:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ravenal
No, defenders dont work. If they would work well though things might be different.
That part right there is wrong, Defenders Do Work. Try using a missile spewing ship, like my drake in lv4's and than go against some BS's, they bring down 1-2 of my missiles PER volley. And there is no counter against it, except for closing the distance drastically, to say 10km where I wont lose any.
1 missile taken down 85% dmg 2 missiles taken down 71% dmg
Originally by: Scordite Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
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RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.05 23:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gawain Hill
Originally by: RuleoftheBone I find personally that Caldari are excellent ISK-makers. It's chaining them thats difficult .
that's because you're doing it wrong... what you're ment to do is camp where they spawn (you need a rather uber tank for this) and just sit and wait depending where you camp you cna make shed loads of isk but it's pretty high risk
p.s. it helps if you have someone else to tank concord for you
Can't be asked....I hunt...not fish with dynamite .
"Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
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AnKahn
Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:28:00 -
[15]
Like noone ever started a character class in an MMO that turned out to be not so hot?
Then how easy was it to "level" the right class character after you learned to play?
The only thing a Caldari character needs is the patience to learn gunnery after they have their ISK farming ships humming along.
Oh, and to the newbee Caldari hunters. Hope you feel proud clubbing baby seals. Large epeens all. (WOW players no doubt). Older Caldari players will turn your own ships against you. You probabaly don't even know it when its happening to you. Enjoy.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: RuleoftheBone I find personally that Caldari are excellent ISK-makers. It's chaining them thats difficult .
ROFL
Quote: plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
AMEN
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ForumPosterAlt
HERRO KITTY
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Posted - 2007.08.06 16:22:00 -
[17]
I didn't read the descriptions, I started out gallente, got tired of swapping ammo and missing frigates are extremely close ranges, and drones getting stuck outside 1500km. Missiles are just too attractive to pass up. Load damage type, f1 f2 f3.
Because posting on the forums is serious business. |
Sova Holder
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sova Holder on 17/08/2007 14:12:57
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Allestin Villimar
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:41:00 -
[19]
But if you nerf the drake, I can't sit here and read forums while I tank level 4s!
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Chelmar II
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hank Showbo thier description in the character selection screen makes them sound somewhat of the race to the if you want to rip things to shreds
Funny, I originally chose Gallente a while back for the same reason after I heard about particle blasters
The only reason I stuck with Caldari in the end was their amazing character attributes. No charisma FTW!
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Neena Valdi
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:19:00 -
[21]
Does anyone acually read those descriptions?
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Gibbal Slogspit
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar But if you nerf the drake, I can't sit here and read forums while I tank level 4s!
Drake can't be nerfed, its over all crap, its just a stupidly tanked ship with crap for DPS.
I think nerfing is bad in eve, boosting the other races PvE abilities through changing the missions themselves sounds much more feasable and interesting.
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Thorek Ironbrow
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jak Silverheart
Originally by: Ravenal
No, defenders dont work. If they would work well though things might be different.
That part right there is wrong, Defenders Do Work. Try using a missile spewing ship, like my drake in lv4's and than go against some BS's, they bring down 1-2 of my missiles PER volley. And there is no counter against it, except for closing the distance drastically, to say 10km where I wont lose any.
1 missile taken down 85% dmg 2 missiles taken down 71% dmg
I was trying to destroy a turret in a level 1 mission (the one where you have to destroy the repair station) at about 30KM away, it was taking down 4 out of 5 missiles every volley.
A bit off topic, but if I was in a Cormorant, and I had 7 turrets and 1 missile launcher, would it be good to put defender missiles in the launcher?
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin I agree about the Caldari Race description, plus Gallente one needs the "french origin" bit removed.
As for missions its because of how missiles (dmg types/no tracking) work and the stupid amount of npcs you have to go through that make caldari the best at it.
Other races don't need good mission ships you just need to adjust missions themselves.
They should be less npcs overall but make them harder and increase bounty plus lvl4s need to have more BS/BC and less frigs.
Oh and maybe give them resists like player ships have.
That would help some ships to compete with the raven in PVE.
This is already planned for.. the 2.2 patch? CCP SPeak about a reduction of around 90% of the number of NPCs, but they'll be that much harder to compensate.
But this reduction, while helping a lot with the lag, probably won't change much where resistances and damage types are concerned, so caldari will stay the pve kings.
(Unless, like me, you use several gunships and use the one that will be most adapted to the mission). ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
arbalesttom
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:43:00 -
[25]
Plz just totaly remove caldari from eve, it sucks for everthing >.<>.<
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Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:19:00 -
[26]
erm i honestly don't see the point in changing everything just because caldari are the best in it. gallente even have a bc that can run lvl 4s pretty well and outperforms the drake, they also got the domi which is good for pve. amarr have nice bses for pve and also the khanid line after the patch, minmatar hav one or 2 bs to do lvl 4 as well. just because caldari are the best missirunners doesn't mean other races can't do missis.
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:48:00 -
[27]
Also, this isn't WoW or other MMOs where what you start out as defines you for the rest of the character's life and you have to start completely over if you want to change classes. Start out as whatever you want and cross-train if you like another race's ships/methodologies better. Many skills will transfer perfectly (general Engineering, Electronics, Mechanics, etc.) for no effective loss in training time. Also, anything you've already trained will continue to be there. So, start off as Caldari and train up to ISK making mission running goodness, then switch over and start cross-training Gallente while continuing to use your Caldari skills for mission running ISK goodness.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.18 00:58:00 -
[28]
I'm just gonna say-don't forget about the drone boats. They tend to be 2'nd best mission-runners. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
Kamen
SRBI Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.08.18 03:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Borasao Also, this isn't WoW or other MMOs where what you start out as defines you for the rest of the character's life and you have to start completely over if you want to change classes. Start out as whatever you want and cross-train if you like another race's ships/methodologies better. Many skills will transfer perfectly (general Engineering, Electronics, Mechanics, etc.) for no effective loss in training time. Also, anything you've already trained will continue to be there. So, start off as Caldari and train up to ISK making mission running goodness, then switch over and start cross-training Gallente while continuing to use your Caldari skills for mission running ISK goodness.
That's not really the solution. I AM cross training, but what's the point? As Caldari, I should be able to provide unique PvP value to my corp. Currently, there is nothing unique that Caldari can offer. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal. |
Gorefacer
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Posted - 2007.08.18 08:18:00 -
[30]
I agree.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
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