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Valei Khurelem
142
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Posted - 2012.01.13 16:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
So here's my thought, if there really is no way we can make solo players more viable in EVE when it comes to PvP and they 'shouldn't' be ( which in my OPINION is a load of bullshit ) why not at least give them a real option of at least running away? That way players who don't even intend to fight aren't going to be punished for being brave enough to venture into 0.0 or low sec space but don't want to be ganked by a fleet either.
I'm going to suggest a module and before you say "USE A MICROWARPDRIVE OR CLOAK YOU STUPID NOOB" that's not really much of an option for someone who's new to the game and if you just scream at them to do several days of training they're just going to tell you to **** off and unsubscribe.
It baffles me that after all this time CCP have a cheap ganking tool but no cheap anti-ganking tool that a player can use.
Warp Disruption Countermeasure I:
Capacitor
50gj
Power Grid Usage
2MW
CPU Usage
50tf
Activation Time / Duration
15s
What I've done is just taken the Warp Disruptor 1 stats and tweaked with it a bit, made it a bit expensive to run away so you only use it for running away in a small ship but larger ships could also use it as a viable tactic for fighting gate camps. I think making this as cheap to build and as easy to learn skills for as the Warp Disruptor would help things a lot.
The way this module will act will be like a one time use EMP for your ship, it just wipes the warp disruption from the ship and they can't use their module on you again for the duration giving you a chance to warp to safety. I also think there should maybe some kind of AoE version of this except it will effect everybody so that means all warp disruptors are shut down as well as bubbles and anyone can have a chance to escape. So if a friend gets trapped in a bubble you could rush in to help them before the enemy arrives.
Please note carefully, players will still be able to lock on and shoot each other as normal, the person using the countermeasure will just have the option of running away, if gankers are organised they would still be able to get them, it would just take more effort and skill tracking the player down. |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
30
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Posted - 2012.01.13 16:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Warp Core Stabilizers. |
Valei Khurelem
142
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Posted - 2012.01.13 16:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mine's simpler and actually works ;S lol let's make it a change for warp core stabalisers then :P |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
371
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Posted - 2012.01.13 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Mine's simpler and actually works ;S lol let's make it a change for warp core stabalisers then :P
If by that you mean completely broken, yes.
There are already "warp away to run and hide from combat" modules. They're the WCS and ECM Burst modules. |
Valei Khurelem
142
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Posted - 2012.01.13 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
ECM bursts take up too much energy for smaller ships, we need a noob version so players have a chance to get away from large fleets. |
Chujo Jong
Phoenix Fire Productions
7
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Posted - 2012.01.13 17:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:ECM bursts take up too much energy for smaller ships, we need a noob version so players have a chance to get away from large fleets.
I don't disagree that a solo'ist should have a way to escape some how, which there is already stuff for it...
But to say smaller ships can't use them and then run aware from large fleets... well a large fleet wont need to warp scram you, they can just pop you there and then... in less they want to scram you, bribe you, tease you... *rolling my eyes at Goons* |
Valei Khurelem
142
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Posted - 2012.01.13 18:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
If they're going to get popped then so be it, I wouldn't dispute the idea of being gunned down in a hail of fire by a larger ship before I can run away ridiculous, in fact I'd expect it, but the thing is, I'd rather be gunned down by a group skilled and organised enough to do it rather than hitting some cheap IWIN button solo and ganking me with a pricey tech 2 cruiser or frigate. Similarly even if it's a large fleet if all they're doing is hogging a chokepoint like most of them do to score easy kills it won't work very well unless they've got all the places covered the player can run to.
Again though on the side of the gankers ( never thought I'd see myself write that ) if a fleet is organised enough they'll be able to take you down even if you run away anyway and they have their system secured properly. Either the capicitor will run out of juice and the player will be taken down if they've locked down the system and blocked all the gates like a real fleet would or as you say they'd target him fast enough anyway and take down the ship. That's the thing though, they'd have to actually be quick enough to do it rather than just sitting there afk and then suddenly realising there's a helpless noob trapped in their bubble. |
Monty Kvaran
Allied Caprican Heavy Industries
9
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Posted - 2012.01.13 19:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
This would make it far too easy to start a fight, and then flee the moment things start to turn against you. One slot, with no passive penalties, for almost guaranteed escape? It would destroy the risk of committing to a fight, that if things turn against you, you will either be forced to fight it out, or abandon anyone warp disrupted and flee. |
Valei Khurelem
144
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Posted - 2012.01.13 19:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Monty Kvaran wrote:This would make it far too easy to start a fight, and then flee the moment things start to turn against you. One slot, with no passive penalties, for almost guaranteed escape? It would destroy the risk of committing to a fight, that if things turn against you, you will either be forced to fight it out, or abandon anyone warp disrupted and flee.
It isn't a guaranteed escape at all, it just evens the odds, if you want to instantly win then you should be playing singleplayer games against stupid NPCs or doing PvE missions, this would force gankers to be more intelligent with the gatecamping tactics you use and actually have to hunt down your prey rather than just pop them in five seconds. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
141
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Posted - 2012.01.13 19:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Monty Kvaran wrote:This would make it far too easy to start a fight, and then flee the moment things start to turn against you. One slot, with no passive penalties, for almost guaranteed escape? It would destroy the risk of committing to a fight, that if things turn against you, you will either be forced to fight it out, or abandon anyone warp disrupted and flee. It isn't a guaranteed escape at all, it just evens the odds, if you want to instantly win then you should be playing singleplayer games against stupid NPCs or doing PvE missions, this would force gankers to be more intelligent with the gatecamping tactics you use and actually have to hunt down your prey rather than just pop them in five seconds.
So basically, you want to be able to get your cyno boat in somewhere you shouldn't be, with no way of stopping you at all, right?
Does your overpowered I win button have a certain warp strength, or will it wipe a focused point from a HIC as easily as a point from a tackle rifter?
Why is this needed when you can just fit WCS?
Why should your rifter (Example ships okay) have a get out of jail free card to get it away from my tanaris?
It's not only ganmkers who camp gates. Camping gates is often a strategic thing out in null, giving scouts, cynos, bombers and any other bugger with one of these fit the ability to totally ignore them isn't exactly fair. |
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Valei Khurelem
145
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Posted - 2012.01.13 19:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is what the increase in the duration is for and the capacitor cost, you won't be able to use them constantly, if someones doing alt. scouting or trying to get a cyno in they're going to be destroyed, I'm sure we can tweak the numbers a bit and increase the cost of using it if it gets exploited but this will mean people who want to just run away can. The point is that they won't be able to run away forever or if the opposing side is smart enough to hunt them.
Right now unfortunately the game just caters entirely to gatecamping in 0.0 space at least, so if you're going to complain about my idea feel free to throw in what you think should be done because I want this problem fixed, not have trolls attacking people for pointing out the problem.
I can equally make the argument as to why as a noob I should get ganked just because you want to be an asshat and take out my rifter and I'm just harmlessly trying to get through to another system? That isn't fair either especially since I have no chance of fighting back. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
956
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
No. |
XXSketchxx
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
89
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
141
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:
I can equally make the argument as to why as a noob I should get ganked just because you want to be an asshat and take out my rifter and I'm just harmlessly trying to get through to another system? That isn't fair either especially since I have no chance of fighting back.
Because you're on my land. Gerrof my land.
You didn't actually address my points at all. Does this kill one point of disruption? Two? Infinite? Where is the drawback, and how is a cap cost the same size as that of an MWD, which many ships can perma-run, going to discourage anything? How can you stop people getting cyno ships, bombers and other such things into systems you don't want them in if they fit these? Do they work on bubbles? Why, exactly, is this needed when you can fit WCS or fly a cloaky, nullified T3? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
34
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Posted - 2012.01.13 20:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:This is what the increase in the duration is for and the capacitor cost, you won't be able to use them constantly, if someones doing alt. scouting or trying to get a cyno in they're going to be destroyed, I'm sure we can tweak the numbers a bit and increase the cost of using it if it gets exploited but this will mean people who want to just run away can. The point is that they won't be able to run away forever or if the opposing side is smart enough to hunt them.
Right now unfortunately the game just caters entirely to gatecamping in 0.0 space at least, so if you're going to complain about my idea feel free to throw in what you think should be done because I want this problem fixed, not have trolls attacking people for pointing out the problem.
I can equally make the argument as to why as a noob I should get ganked just because you want to be an asshat and take out my rifter and I'm just harmlessly trying to get through to another system? That isn't fair either especially since I have no chance of fighting back. If you're a lone noob in a rifter, wth are you doing running solo through null sec?
Anyway, the point is moot. This won't get implemented, and even if it did it would just be abused by us older players. Not by the noobs you are pretending to chivalrously protect. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
53
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Posted - 2012.01.14 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
mxzf wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:Mine's simpler and actually works ;S lol let's make it a change for warp core stabalisers then :P If by that you mean completely broken, yes. There are already "warp away to run and hide from combat" modules. They're the WCS and ECM Burst modules.
Make that WCS only, as ECM bursts don't actually work effectively. Most Disruptors beat ECM burst range, so it's effectively useless in PvP. Also doesn't stop web, neut, or anything else particularly effectively. Smart skirmishers have a cloaked SB nearby with lockbreaker bombs; at least that way you have a target area of Bomb radius that you can choose. |
Orion Kirimitsu
Fly Drunk Fatal Ascension
2
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Posted - 2012.01.14 00:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
ok, Ill play along. With HEAVY stipulations.
1) you hit your magic butan, you get 5 seconds to gtfo, afterwhich you can be immediately locked again. 2) It will drain 99% of your cap, allowing you to warp away, but not even close enough to make it to any gate or activate any modules. 3) after the one use, the module is destroyed.
If your really intending it as a possible noob escape button, this would work fine. If he still gets scanned down, and pointed, well, he was dead anyway.
Anything other than this is a big resounding No. For Clarification, please see Felgasts post.
Edit: the module uses a High Slot |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
54
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Posted - 2012.01.14 01:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Orion Kirimitsu wrote:ok, Ill play along. With HEAVY stipulations.
1) you hit your magic butan, you get 5 seconds to gtfo, afterwhich you can be immediately locked again. 2) It will drain 99% of your cap, allowing you to warp away, but not even close enough to make it to any gate or activate any modules. 3) after the one use, the module is destroyed.
If your really intending it as a possible noob escape button, this would work fine. If he still gets scanned down, and pointed, well, he was dead anyway.
Anything other than this is a big resounding No. For Clarification, please see Felgasts post.
Edit: the module uses a High Slot
Okay, I'll play along too..
Module uses a High Slot: check. - good idea.
Hit Magic Butan > gtfo: Nah, lets go for game balance. Hit magic butan and it employs interdiction countermeasures that resist current interdiction. Maybe you gtfo; maybe you don't.
Drains 99% of Cap: No. Pretty sure that isn't even enough left to initiate warp in many cases. Kind of defeats the purpose. Instead, make it drain specific Cap. per cycle, and require a ton of CPU like a Cloak.
After one use, you blow up.. ah, the module blows up: No. Silly idea; why would you waste your money on it. Properties of T3 module require it to be assembled in a station environment before fitting; part of the assembly requirement is a Tech 3 crystal which takes damage like a Mining Crystal or Laser Crystal does. The primary portion of the module only takes damage from overheating; which can allow it to boost Interdiction resistance, but also increases volatility of the crystal per cycle.
You guys always **** on every idea; when you could really just think about how you could balance such a device for use in game. Not everything has to wreck EVE.
Quote:Combat: Your Idea strikes EVE Online MMO with a perfect shot, inflicting 44,000 points Wrecking damage.
edit: If we just stop accepting changes, the game environment will stagnate. EVE needs new modules, ships, and features to make it more interesting for older players; while giving it not-done-to-death content for newer ones.
New items in the market means more recent players can quickly take advantage of these and start producing and selling them; where older items are already heavily produced and suffer from too much market saturation to allow for a window of opportunity for new players.
Edit: Unfortunately, my re-design of the OP idea, doesn't help new players with no skill roaming Nullsec; that's what WCS are for. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
142
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 03:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:
You didn't actually address my points at all. Does this kill one point of disruption? Two? Infinite? Where is the drawback, and how is a cap cost the same size as that of an MWD, which many ships can perma-run, going to discourage anything? How can you stop people getting cyno ships, bombers and other such things into systems you don't want them in if they fit these? Do they work on bubbles? Why, exactly, is this needed when you can fit WCS or fly a cloaky, nullified T3?
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Valei Khurelem
146
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Posted - 2012.01.14 06:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Valei Khurelem wrote:This is what the increase in the duration is for and the capacitor cost, you won't be able to use them constantly, if someones doing alt. scouting or trying to get a cyno in they're going to be destroyed, I'm sure we can tweak the numbers a bit and increase the cost of using it if it gets exploited but this will mean people who want to just run away can. The point is that they won't be able to run away forever or if the opposing side is smart enough to hunt them.
Right now unfortunately the game just caters entirely to gatecamping in 0.0 space at least, so if you're going to complain about my idea feel free to throw in what you think should be done because I want this problem fixed, not have trolls attacking people for pointing out the problem.
I can equally make the argument as to why as a noob I should get ganked just because you want to be an asshat and take out my rifter and I'm just harmlessly trying to get through to another system? That isn't fair either especially since I have no chance of fighting back. If you're a lone noob in a rifter, wth are you doing running solo through null sec? Anyway, the point is moot. This won't get implemented, and even if it did it would just be abused by us older players. Not by the noobs you are pretending to chivalrously protect.
If you have a better suggestion, then post it here, I want this problem solved, not have a bunch of whiners ruin the discussion, the fact is that the solutions offered now whether intentional or unintentional are either very impractical or they just simply don't work. If you just continue to troll then I can safely assume you really don't give a **** about any players but yourself and just want to have a permanent advantage over everyone.
As for people claiming I didn't address the point, you aren't reading properly, I've actually said it kills the warp disruption effects entirely, much like the way warp disruption stops you from escaping entirely it will give you an escape window to use. I thought you guys cared about PvP? Not passively owning a system without any effort.
Note: Honestly, I can't highlight it anymore clearly than using bold and underlined text, CCP won't let us change size, so if you didn't read that it's your fault. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
4925
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Posted - 2012.01.14 09:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Valei Khurelem
147
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Posted - 2012.01.14 09:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Write a better idea then. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
4925
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Posted - 2012.01.14 09:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Write a better idea then. OK.
Morgan North wrote:Warp Core Stabilizers.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Valei Khurelem
147
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Posted - 2012.01.14 09:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
They don't work, try again and try reading the whole thread this time. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
4925
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 09:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:They don't work, try again and try reading the whole thread this time. Why should I need to read the whole thread? I've read your OP and no where does it state that you are talking about bubbles, or infinite points. Or are you simply lying about them not working?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Valei Khurelem
147
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Posted - 2012.01.14 09:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:I also think there should maybe some kind of AoE version of this except it will effect everybody so that means all warp disruptors are shut down as well as bubbles and anyone can have a chance to escape. So if a friend gets trapped in a bubble you could rush in to help them before the enemy arrives.
There you go? :) |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
4925
|
Posted - 2012.01.14 09:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ahh nicely added and as you state, a different type to the main idea.
Edit: Oh and there are counters to that already.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Valei Khurelem
147
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Posted - 2012.01.14 10:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Microwarp drives don't count so you know :) |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
4925
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Posted - 2012.01.14 10:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Valei Khurelem wrote:Microwarp drives don't count so you know :) In your narrow play style that may be true, but I didn't mention them. The point is there are already counters to warp disruptors, bubbles and infinite points, so why do we need another?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Valei Khurelem
147
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Posted - 2012.01.14 10:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Because they don't work properly, so either suggest a fix for them or don't bother arguing really, because one thing you haven't factored every time you post and try to attack my idea you bump up the thread to the top and attract more interest :D |
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