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Khutulu IV
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Posted - 2007.08.15 23:59:00 -
[181]
Let it be known that I do not speak for The V I G I L, though PDO is a member corporation.
Verone, your reputation precedes you, and from what I have heard, you are both a skilled PvPer and an honest player.
It seems to me that this entire thread is full of hyperbole, and sycophantic rants, with very little by way of content. The crux of the matter is that gren accused Veto of a login trap and that prompter Verone to point out a "logoffski" event. I can see where that much is only fair. Obviously gren's group did log off while cloaked at a gate, as they have admitted, so no one is going to dispute that.
All that being said, I think things have gotten a bit out of control on this forum, and I don't think that a single event by single party should be used to judge an entire alliance. I will keep my oppinion of how wrong the event may or may not have been to myself, but I must say that a 7 page frag fest at the expense of gren is either ample payback or possibly more than enough.
There is one more point that I think should be made, and perhaps it will draw flames to me, but I'm going to say it anyway. Using words like "honor" or "courage" or anything like that when talking about Eve, ESPECIALLY when you are a pirate, is fairly silly. Dec said it earlier with his example, but it bears repeating; jumping into a belt and ransoming some n00b in a hauler for all of his ISK is considered "good pirating" and there is no talk of honor there, yet when an "anti-pie" (a term over used and oft ill-used) makes the slightest infraction, honor suddenly comes into play. I find the arbitrary choices of what is and what is not honorable in this game to be enough to disregard anyone's statements that a player acted without honor. I think most people would be best served either calling it an exploit, or an improper use of game mechanics.
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TheDagda
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.08.16 00:08:00 -
[182]
Thread cleaned, please stay on topic and do not bypass the profanity filter.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 00:22:00 -
[183]
 Originally by: Khutulu IV
Let it be known that I do not speak for The V I G I L, though PDO is a member corporation.
Verone, your reputation precedes you, and from what I have heard, you are both a skilled PvPer and an honest player.
It seems to me that this entire thread is full of hyperbole, and sycophantic rants, with very little by way of content. The crux of the matter is that gren accused Veto of a login trap and that prompter Verone to point out a "logoffski" event. I can see where that much is only fair. Obviously gren's group did log off while cloaked at a gate, as they have admitted, so no one is going to dispute that.
All that being said, I think things have gotten a bit out of control on this forum, and I don't think that a single event by single party should be used to judge an entire alliance. I will keep my oppinion of how wrong the event may or may not have been to myself, but I must say that a 7 page frag fest at the expense of gren is either ample payback or possibly more than enough.
There is one more point that I think should be made, and perhaps it will draw flames to me, but I'm going to say it anyway. Using words like "honor" or "courage" or anything like that when talking about Eve, ESPECIALLY when you are a pirate, is fairly silly. Dec said it earlier with his example, but it bears repeating; jumping into a belt and ransoming some n00b in a hauler for all of his ISK is considered "good pirating" and there is no talk of honor there, yet when an "anti-pie" (a term over used and oft ill-used) makes the slightest infraction, honor suddenly comes into play. I find the arbitrary choices of what is and what is not honorable in this game to be enough to disregard anyone's statements that a player acted without honor. I think most people would be best served either calling it an exploit, or an improper use of game mechanics.
Doesn't matter what you want or think. By way of your alliance's actions, ppl will continue to flame your alliance, post this to your recruitment threads and generally have fun at your misery. :)
Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ. |
Narciss Sevar
Caldari
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:44:00 -
[184]
Verone is the biggest log on cheat ever, everyone send him evemails explaining why this bad gameplay and he should grow up.
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.16 02:05:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Khutulu IV
Using words like "honor" or "courage" or anything like that when talking about Eve, ESPECIALLY when you are a pirate, is fairly silly. Dec said it earlier with his example, but it bears repeating; jumping into a belt and ransoming some n00b in a hauler for all of his ISK is considered "good pirating" and there is no talk of honor there, yet when an "anti-pie" (a term over used and oft ill-used) makes the slightest infraction, honor suddenly comes into play.
To me, and many other people, honor is keeping your word, respect, and staying true to your profession. Pirates and anti-pirates alike are expected to keep their word, whether it's a 1v1 or a ransom.
Pirates kill and ransom. When a pirate kills or ransoms you, they're staying true to their profession. If a pirate breaks their word and kills you after they ransom you, or brings friends into a 1v1, they're dishonorable.
TBH, more AP's do dishonorable acts than pirates because they think they have to do anything in order the kill the pirate scum, including breaking 1v1 or logging in combat.
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Khutulu IV
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Posted - 2007.08.16 05:18:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Kirex
To me, and many other people, honor is keeping your word, respect, and staying true to your profession. Pirates and anti-pirates alike are expected to keep their word, whether it's a 1v1 or a ransom.
Pirates kill and ransom. When a pirate kills or ransoms you, they're staying true to their profession. If a pirate breaks their word and kills you after they ransom you, or brings friends into a 1v1, they're dishonorable.
TBH, more AP's do dishonorable acts than pirates because they think they have to do anything in order the kill the pirate scum, including breaking 1v1 or logging in combat.
I'll agree that honor is applicable in sticking to your word (e.g. keeping to a ransom or a 1v1), but not sticking to your profession. Sticking to what you do (like being a pie) is just being consistent. There is little honor in taking candy from a baby, even if you are a baby-candy-taker. That doesn't mean that being a pie makes you an a-hat automatically or anything, but it does make you a pie.
As for APs doing more dishonorable things than pies, thats up for debate. Both sides have their fair share of complete [insert bad words here]. One could argue that n00b pies are the worst of the worst...but it doesn't reflect the entire community, and honestly pirate gets more overused than AP in Eve. If I were a true pirate, I wouldn't be happy about ****ers in high-sec canbaiting 1 day olds and calling it piracy.
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Ridley Tree
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.16 09:47:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Khutulu IV
I don't think that a single event by single party should be used to judge an entire alliance.
There is a difference between Vigil and Veto however.
In Veto someone pulling a login trap or a logoffiski would not need to ask if he should leave the corp. He would not be told 'don't leave.' He would simply be kicked. Period. End of Story. Full Stop.
In VIGIL apparently the behavior is tolerated.
Your entire alliance is being judged based on the above. Not because someone did it. But because that someone faces no consequence.
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The Ridley Tree Productions Vault of Videos |
Antraxx
Caldari
Deviance Inc
Karnal Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.08.16 11:14:00 -
[188]
Originally by: DeckardIRL
Originally by: Mebrithiel Ju'wien
I put it to this forum, that the mentioned parties herein, being Anti Pirate Inc of THE VIGIL alliance, accused of slander of Veto's good name, should pay recompense for the slight, harmful as it were to Veto Corps business practices and work ethics.
IRESTMYCASE 
Veto have War Dec'd us. If we are to pay, we will pay with our blood.
Looking forward to smackfree battles and be assured there will be no logoffski's.
Deck
No offense to Vigil here..but..
If that statement is true Deckard i would be seriously concerned about GrenadierSimpson..
Through his actions your alliance has been dragged through the mud here.
Regarding Smack-Never have i seen anyone who smacks as much as Simpson can.
He managed to smacktalk your alliance into another war with Karnal as well as Veto.
Are we the threat to you that Veto are?-Perhaps not..
But personally-If we had a single member that could cause so much trouble..I'd be having doubt's right now..
Ooh..And for the record,and to the point of this thread...
Personally i cant see Veto pulling the login trap thing.We've had some damn fine fights with them,and have never seen anything other than exemplorary behaviour from their groups.
If half the pvp corps in eve were as organised and good at what they did as Veto are-That would be one hell of a battlefield..
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Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :)
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed. delaying startup again. |
Alt 123
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Posted - 2007.08.16 12:38:00 -
[189]
Yes Yes i am an alt specifically set up to post in the crime and punishment thread to protect my main's corp from being flamed to death from the biggest pirate popularity contest forum in eve online.
First of all i am neither pirate or anti pirate. I'm tucked away in 0.0 mining my ass off. I often read the crime and punishment forum for laughs and giggles but this one is pretty huge.
Mr Simpson has made a mistake throwing around accusations of abusing game mechanics without having the evidence to back it up. Verone countered this with an epic thread and video of simpson doing a logoffski. Simpson has not denied this. If i am correct simpson hasnt called veto for doing a log on trap just stated that he seen them perform one. As a neutral to this thread i have noticed some key things here:
* Anti Pirates dont stand a chance posting in here. Pirates jump down there throat within minutes of posts and flame them to death.
* Pirates kill defenseless ships, new players...basically anything they can without remorse, yet they use words like honor, courage, pride and respect. The way i see it is those words can be used from pirate to pirate but dont expect it from the rest of eve.
* I LMAO when i read that karnal knowledge and veto have war declared the V I G I L due to 2 incidents of simpson smack talking in local . If every non pirate corp or alliance in eve did this then then 95% of all pirate establishments would be war declared. Also i understand that kk and veto are mostly made up of outlaws that are bound to low sec and the said alliance dwell in high sec  .
* The nail in simpsons coffin could of been sealed if verone would have shown an extra 2 minutes on the end of the logoffski video just to 100% prove him to be lying about veto performing a log on trap (that did confuse me). So now simpson cant prove his accusation and verone cant prove they didnt (although he had his chance with the video). Also strange.
Thats just my point on this epic thread but what do i know im a carebear.
Let the flames begin
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Verone
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:49:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Alt 123
* The nail in simpsons coffin could of been sealed if verone would have shown an extra 2 minutes on the end of the logoffski video just to 100% prove him to be lying about veto performing a log on trap (that did confuse me). So now simpson cant prove his accusation and verone cant prove they didnt (although he had his chance with the video). Also strange.
I'd like to say I'm able to post it and would have loved nothing more to have solid footage to challenge it, but as with most people who run FRAPS our guys who do so turn it off after engagements, hence once everything was dead/logged off it got turned off AFAIK. The only reason that we had it running is because we were actually expecting a fight since these guys had been ganking or attempting to gank solo pilots or small gangs with their anti-pie blob patrol. Sadly when the tables were evened out it was more of a case of how quickly they could hit CTRL+Q.
A further 2 mins of footage would have been 1-2 gig of hard disk space, loading a 3-4 gig of fraps into the RAM of most pc's as one video when you're video editing makes most people's pc's die.
All I can offer in that respect is the word of my corporation, and my word which many know has never been broken as long as I've played Eve.
This thread was a response to him trolling our members in another with no evidence or basis for accusation. My point was that if he's pulling lame stunts like logging off in combat, and telling everyone under his command to do the same then he has no right to criticise anyone, or even attempt to throw around false claims that our members tried to log in trap him.
>>> THE BEAUTY OF NEW EDEN <<<
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Alt 123
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:31:00 -
[191]
I see what you are saying verone. Please dont take me as trying to accuse. You seem like an honest person. Anyway that is my portion for the forums for this year.
Goodbye pirates o/
P.S Did you delete the footage of simpson logging off for a second time straight after?
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Allota Fajina
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:47:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Alt 123
I see what you are saying verone. Please dont take me as trying to accuse. You seem like an honest person. Anyway that is my portion for the forums for this year.
Goodbye pirates o/
P.S Did you delete the footage of simpson logging off for a second time straight after?
hmm - you speak almost exactly the same as grenadiersimpson using words phrases like "call you on it" and referring to grenadiersimpson as "simpson" (which is how he posts in comments on the vigil killboard) which leads me to the exciting conclusion that you are Grenadiersimpson's alt.
This coupled with the fact that you have posted almost the exact same argument again is quite funny really - 7 pages in and you still havn't got the point. Why not just continue posting with grenadier mate... i don't think it could get any worse for you.
Finally - grenadier/alt 123 please tell me what the difference is between 'calling' someone on a login trap and seeing them do it?
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zennith
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:49:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Allota Fajina
Why not just continue posting with grenadier mate... i don't think it could get any worse for you.
Because he's already left the thread for good twice now
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Alt 123
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:59:00 -
[194]
Oh my god
The paranoia in here. You see why i dont post with my main? Please show me where i have said "call you on it"? And also grenadiersimpson (i did it) is alot to type. I ts not even safe to post with alts in here.
Bye Bye
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Allota Fajina
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:04:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Allota Fajina on 16/08/2007 16:05:54
Originally by: Alt 123
Oh my god
Please show me where i have said "call you on it"?
? 
Originally by: Alt 123
If i am correct simpson hasnt called veto for doing a log on trap just stated that he seen them perform one.
Originally by: GRENADIERSIMPSON
And also when have i called you or anybody for using these tactics???
if not grenadiersimpson then simply post with ur main no?
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.17 00:27:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Allota Fajina
Originally by: Alt 123
Oh my god
Please show me where i have said "call you on it"?
?
Originally by: Alt 123
If i am correct simpson hasnt called veto for doing a log on trap just stated that he seen them perform one.
Originally by: GRENADIERSIMPSON
And also when have i called you or anybody for using these tactics???
....
Listen mate I havnt called you or anyone else for these tactics. this is what im trying to say. I havnt flamed you for pulling a log in trap all i have said is that you did
if not grenadiersimpson then simply post with ur main no?
Holy Burnination, Sherlock 
That's gotta be some serious deduction right there or the harshest smack ever 
Good girls go to Heaven. Bad girls get drunk and pew pew everywhere! |
VooDoo SpYD3R
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Posted - 2007.08.17 00:34:00 -
[197]
Who says its not safe to respond with alts..
Hello everyone, I'm a Alt.
Lighten the mood some.
Quote:
You Have 20 Sec...
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Vodoo Willie
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Posted - 2007.08.17 03:40:00 -
[198]
Holy mudda marry n jos'eph. If GSimpson be da measure a da anti-piwat, please be to all dat iz holy Grant me da powa to 'Yarr'
Me has asked ma corps, and dey all say dat Veto is good folk wordy a Respec, an be feared when dey afta youz.
So props ta Verone, an veto.
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port22
Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2007.08.17 08:18:00 -
[199]
<3 Verone
Originally by: Temp Boi
Port FTMFW Period.
'We dont fight fair' -Fall Out Boy |
Wyliee
Taurus Inc
Karnal Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.08.17 10:44:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Wyliee on 17/08/2007 10:44:56
seems like simpson has smacked his corp/alliance into war with at least 2 pvp corps and a pvp aliance.
vigils ships are poping all over the place, corps are leaving vigil.
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MILD BOB
Gallente
Firestorm Projects
THE V I G I L
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Posted - 2007.08.17 11:23:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Wyliee
vigils t1 'kamikazee' cruisers are poping all over the place, one corp left vigil before the war started.
Fixed that for you.
Ever thought about taking propaganda lessons?
yes, I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread again.... but hey, what you going to do?
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El'Tar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.08.17 11:27:00 -
[202]
Originally by: VooDoo SpYD3R
Who says its not safe to respond with alts..
Hello everyone, I'm a Alt.
Lighten the mood some.
Who are you?
Oh and nice thread Verone, made me rofl
Killboard
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:15:00 -
[203]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/08/2007 17:59:34
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/08/2007 17:57:46
log in traps. They
+get kills
+aren't considered an Exploit
-labeled as lame by a few
WTF is the problem. They get kills through in-game means. Why do people label everything good that works as "lame". Log-in traps, using agression "station hugging", nanoships.
The entire point of PVP in this game is to get kills without loss. These things are the prime examples of this. If it works, isn't an exploit, and doesn't abuse people's gained trust over time "corp thieft" i say do it.
Its corps that use tactics like logging out or login traps or what ever lame ways of pvping like yours that have lead me through a checkered corp history.
I dont log at all. If i find out ceo's and or dictors are using logout tactics or anything as remotely lame I just up and leave the dumb ass corp. have no time for peeps like you.
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Lucille Naudin
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:16:00 -
[204]
In other news, combined Veto forces decimate the Vigil in high sec (Heimatar system, August 16).
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:07:00 -
[205]
Originally by: DubanFP
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/08/2007 17:59:34
Edited by: DubanFP on 13/08/2007 17:57:46
log in traps. They
+get kills
+aren't considered an Exploit
-labeled as lame by a few
WTF is the problem. They get kills through in-game means. Why do people label everything good that works as "lame". Log-in traps, using agression "station hugging", nanoships.
The entire point of PVP in this game is to get kills without loss. These things are the prime examples of this. If it works, isn't an exploit, and doesn't abuse people's gained trust over time "corp thieft" i say do it.
Login traps are lame. jump in traps are borderline lame. hell nos ships that are used to cripple your foe when you clearly dont have gun or missile skills is also lame ( curse and pilgrim are exceptions ).
Its pretty clear you support lame tactics.
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Havlentia Castigatrix
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:01:00 -
[206]
Originally by: GRENADIERSIMPSON
The V I G I L has been met with so many pirate so called exploits in the past they have basically turned round and said we have done it once and lets leave it at that.
Have they said that it can continue? Tell me how 'descending' to a level makes you better.
Originally by: GRENADIERSIMPSON
Now maybe my reputation to pirates who actually read these forums has been destroyed
It's not only pirates that read these forums and occasionally delurk to let people know that corporations that you may want to keep good relations with will always now be asking, If they have our backs, and things get a little too hot, can we rely on them?
You have spoken for your alliance. I hope your alliance realises that.
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This space left intentionally blank |
SupaFlyTNT
Darwin With Attitude
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:18:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Lucille Naudin
In other news, combined Veto forces decimate the Vigil in high sec (Heimatar system, August 16).
Cowns back \o/
Also someone accusing Veto. of log traps made me laugh. You would be shown the door quicker than you can say P45 if the directors got wind of that!
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Antraxx
Caldari
Deviance Inc
Karnal Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:39:00 -
[208]
Originally by: MILD BOB
Originally by: Wyliee
vigils t1 'kamikazee' cruisers are poping all over the place, one corp left vigil before the war started.
Fixed that for you.
Ever thought about taking propaganda lessons?
yes, I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread again.... but hey, what you going to do?
Ooooh ...Now its all clear...
Guess that explains why we got the usual "Surrender" mail then huh?
They left when we first decced Vigil...War now lists a different start date as we kinda left it to late to renew and had to re-dec.
Propoganda?-Yeah right...
Oooh and btw-Try getting ALL your pilots to post their losses perhaps?
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Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :)
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait
we are screwed. delaying startup again. |
MILD BOB
Gallente
Firestorm Projects
THE V I G I L
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:38:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Antraxx
Originally by: MILD BOB
Originally by: Wyliee
vigils t1 'kamikazee' cruisers are poping all over the place, one corp left vigil before the war started.
Fixed that for you.
Ever thought about taking propaganda lessons?
yes, I know I said I wouldn't post on this thread again.... but hey, what you going to do?
Ooooh ...Now its all clear...
Guess that explains why we got the usual "Surrender" mail then huh?
They left when we first decced Vigil...War now lists a different start date as we kinda left it to late to renew and had to re-dec.
Propoganda?-Yeah right...
Oooh and btw-Try getting ALL your pilots to post their losses perhaps?
Wyliee said corps implying that The VIGIL is falling apart, which I can assure you it isn't. I merely pointed this FACT out and also that your high sec gank squad was met by a 'having a laugh' t1 cruiser squad (which, may i add, went back for seconds). His comment was clearly trying to further influence what people thought about the situation and hence was 'Propaganda' (notice the spelling with an 'a')...... sigh!
Why do you pirates always take things so seriously?... lighten up for heavens sake, its only a game. Maybe if we all remembered that I wouldn't be posting in a 7 page thread! 
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Redbad
Minmatar
Tempered Steel Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:19:00 -
[210]
wowsers, what a messy thread here
Originally by: Redbad
Fairness
There are exploits in the game (there are in any online game). Using them is something that winds up most people. Don't do it - we're strong enough to prosper without cheating and doing so will only annoy everyone who isn't cheating.
join us today! |
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