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lofty29
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:34:00 -
[1]
Everybody knows that destroyers are a bit ****. Nobody bar noobies flys one properly in combat, as a frigate is a better tackler and a cruiser is a better DPS / Tank ship.
So, why don't we try to buff them a little bit more, while keeping their roles.
If, for example, we gave then 500 powergrid and more lowslots (medslots for caldari), we could fit a cruiser sized tank on them but only frigate weaponry. Boost the HP to that of a cruiser, and let the destroyer tank well enough to stay alive for longer than 2 seconds, enabling it to down frigates like it should do.
I don't feel like this would be a huge boost, as a cruiser sized tank is still pretty flimsy, but it would definitely make one of the lesser-used ship classes alot better.
Comments? ---
Project Mayhem 2 |
Thorek Ironbrow
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:37:00 -
[2]
Yeah, when I joined my corp at the start of me playing this game, I was really excited that I was getting a free Cormorant from then. Then when I got it I was think "Oh, this isn't all that great, I could do way better in a Kestrel!". So I pretty much agree with everything you say. I think perhaps for the Cormorant you might have a few more launchers instead of turret points, but still a mix of the both.
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:39:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Yeah, when I joined my corp at the start of me playing this game, I was really excited that I was getting a free Cormorant from then. Then when I got it I was think "Oh, this isn't all that great, I could do way better in a Kestrel!". So I pretty much agree with everything you say. I think perhaps for the Cormorant you might have a few more launchers instead of turret points, but still a mix of the both.
Turrets would be fine IMO, else you would just get people sticking on an mwd, nanos and 8 missile launchers. Cheap flycatcher used like a crow. ---
Project Mayhem 2 |
Thorek Ironbrow
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:40:00 -
[4]
Oh yeah fair enough then. I agree with that to. (I'm still a newb tbh)
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:46:00 -
[5]
Edited by: NightmareX on 16/08/2007 15:46:49 I have sometimes wanted to use a Destroyer, but i have always said no to it because it almost instapop to frigs in most situations.
So this will be signed
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:50:00 -
[6]
Would make destroyer wolfpacks viable again (the last HP buffs pretty muchs screwed those)
Yes plox.
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Spoonarithm
Gallente PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:52:00 -
[7]
remember when destroyers 1st came out, every one in 0.0 were flying them...
You are going too fast! Wait a minute and try again.
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Spoonarithm remember when destroyers 1st came out, every one in 0.0 were flying them...
Because they were new. Remember when stealth bombers came out? Everyone flying them ---
Project Mayhem 2 |
Plymer Ization
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:00:00 -
[9]
I love the look of the Thrasher... I'd love to be able to fly one properly too :)
Of course, this buff should not be extended to Interdictors for many reasons.
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Waxau
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:04:00 -
[10]
Signed - One of the best visually created ship class in game, yet dont even have a role good enough for their 1 mil price.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: lofty29 If, for example, we gave then 500 powergrid and more lowslots (medslots for caldari), we could fit a cruiser sized tank on them but only frigate weaponry. Boost the HP to that of a cruiser, and let the destroyer tank well enough to stay alive for longer than 2 seconds, enabling it to down frigates like it should do.
I don't feel like this would be a huge boost, as a cruiser sized tank is still pretty flimsy, but it would definitely make one of the lesser-used ship classes alot better.
Comments?
I don't need a tank on a destroyer, but removing that 25% penalty to rate of fire would be nice. ------------------
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Ess Erbe
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:15:00 -
[12]
I personally love destroyers and find them quite useful, but their usefulness certainly wanes the more experienced you or your targets get...
Small PG and CPU buff across the board for the T1 destroyers would be nice, and give them *all* 8 turret hardpoints to use if they want to. -25 RoF is harsh on the Cormorant's poor 7 turret slots.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:34:00 -
[13]
The destroyer fragility stems from the high sig radius coupled with the general lack of low/med slots.
They all need +1 med and low slot IMHO. My best guess for a beter sig radius would be about 10-20% higher sig radius than the highest racial frigate.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:49:00 -
[14]
Nix the 25% ROF penalty, +2 mid/low slots (and cpu/pg), and give it a tanking bonus.
Liang
Originally by: "QproQ"
When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
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Jacob Swell
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:29:00 -
[15]
Destroyer hp/grid layout is fine what it is right now. It puts them squarely between a Frig/Cruiser.
What they could use is a slight reduction in sig radius. Right now Dessie sigs are between 80-90~, bumping them down to 60-70~ would give them a better chance of surviving hits from BS and Cruisers.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.16 18:16:00 -
[16]
Trasher has a sig radius of 75 currently. Its still fairly easy to hit. 60 should really be the top end. Keep in mind the +500% that MWD's cause.
Also give them 6 au/s warpspeed, the crazy 9 au/s of interdictors ( a 3x increase to warpspeed, the highest ingame ) almost implies a data entry mistake with the current 3 au/s that destroyers have. Its not impossible as we have seen with the Stealth Bombers.
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.08.16 20:33:00 -
[17]
General observation: Going from Frigate to Destroyer looks to be a similar progression going from Cruiser to Battlecruiser. The biggest difference I can see is that when you go from Cruiser to Battlecruiser there is a serious increase in shield and armor strength compared to the cruisers to balance the reduction in speed. But there is no corresponding increase in shield and armor strength of destroyer going up from frigates. Personally I's say the answer is either increase the speed or the shield/armor of the Destroyers.
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Spaced Skunk
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 20:52:00 -
[18]
Remember all destroyers have a great tracking bonus and base 50% bonus. They define 'anti-frig'.
"In naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast and manouverable yet long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet or battle group and defend them against smaller, short-range attackers"
The only thing they are missing is endurance. I don't personally think giving them a medium sized tank is key, this would certainly imbalance to be honest, but I suggest getting rid of the 25% ROF penalty, and giving them more HP to that of a cruiser (or just a bit lower) and +1 slot each, they would be great, balanced and well within thier role boundaries.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.16 21:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Max Hardcase Also give them 6 au/s warpspeed, the crazy 9 au/s of interdictors ( a 3x increase to warpspeed, the highest ingame ) almost implies a data entry mistake with the current 3 au/s that destroyers have. Its not impossible as we have seen with the Stealth Bombers.
Interdictors are supposed to be a lot faster than destroyers in order to outpace other ships. They also have the same base speed out of warp as interceptors (incidentally, each race has 1 interceptor that goes at 9au/s and one that goes at 13.5au/s).
Since destroyers are supposed to be somewhere between frigates and cruisers, a warp speed of 4.5 au/s would be logical. 6+ would be more reasonable if they were expected to pursue frigates over long distances, but their role is ultimately to defend slower ships.
My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.16 21:17:00 -
[20]
Thrahser is good for popping Frigs/Ceptors.
They are hilariously fun and catch people by surprise.
Highs: 280mm II's
Mids: Sensor Booster II's
Low: Gyro II's
Frigs/Ceptors/Shuttles/Pods that come through gates in 0.0 get one vollied.
Its a niche role but it is fun and destroyers do it well.
The other 3 destroyers I don't know too much about. I don't think they have the alpha for it.
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Awox
Advanced Logistics
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Posted - 2007.08.16 21:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Thrahser is good for popping Frigs/Ceptors.
Are you insane man? A ship with roles? Are you out of your mind?
To the OP, I was flying Thrashers long before I had Interdictors. Stop whining and learn to fit and fly your ships against tougher opponents than mission runners.
Also: Thanks for scaring that target away yesterday with your newbie heron scan probe alt. What a crappy move. - ccp <3 ISK sellers boost dictors (a bit!) remotely destroy JCs |
Kyreax
Deepspace Exploration Biscuit Repair Associates
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Posted - 2007.08.16 22:24:00 -
[22]
Yes, I've always wanted to fly a destroyer more, they are teh sex, but they instapop.
Perhaps they could get a "destroyer only" gang bonus, as their role is to hunt smaller targets while guarding the big fat ones from them. The gang bonus could include:
ROF penalty removed, sig radius reduced, and cupholders. ---------------------------------------------------
It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers. |
6Bagheera9
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.16 22:31:00 -
[23]
My Thoughts: - +1 Mid-slot for the Catalyst and Coercer - +1 Low-slot for the Thrasher and Cormorant - Boost to pg so that with max skills each destroyer can fit a full rack of the largest T2 small guns, an AB, and a rep. - Boost the sensor resolution so that you need, at most, one sensor booster. - Remove the -25% RoF penalty
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Jonny Magellan
Amarr Dastardly Bastards
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Posted - 2007.08.16 22:34:00 -
[24]
I think your fix would make AFs and Destroyers overlap..
I would trim down on the AFs mass a bit and for destroyers a boost to PG so they can actually fit 8 guns. I like the glass cannon concept on the destroyers so I would work on getting rid of the Rof penalty and maybe add falloff role bonus.
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Crazy Yuri
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Posted - 2007.08.16 22:44:00 -
[25]
actually I would like a "heavy destroyer" that has two siege launchers on it. Yep two high slots. So its a big ship killer stablemate.
Otherwise, the flying coffin is best used for mission clean up duty.
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jefferton lifesupport
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Posted - 2007.08.17 00:53:00 -
[26]
Destroyers are fine.
As a newb within 2 days I was able to fit 7x 200mm T2 autocannons, T2 MEDIUM shield booster, small cap injector. That plus the afterburner and overdrives means I have a very fast, tough 'enough' super-frigate which can out damage many cruisers and tears interceptors a new one.
Yes they can pop real easily, but they are CHEEEAP and can usually warp out of a sticky situation. Yes it stinks to only have 2 low slots and not be able to fit any hardeners or amps, but thems the breaks. If you wanna tank vs anything substantial then you simply can't expect to be using the 2nd lowest ship class in the game..
I'm all for more specialization though, and more destroyer models. Maybe a model for each race that has an even bigger cargo hold and a salvage bonus? And some of the current bonuses could be doubled or tripled without worrying about the class interfering with other classes due to the low number of slots.
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.17 03:13:00 -
[27]
Nothing wrong with their dps, nothing wrong with their tank. What is wrong is they are way way to big. Sig radius way to big, fix that and they will be worth flying.
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.17 05:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren and give it a tanking bonus.
Liang
Doesn't need it. Frankly, if you're having to tank damage in a destroyer, you're not doing it right to begin with. A destroyer's precious few mid and low slots should be used for far better things than tanking modules. ------------------
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Rania Serlia
World Order The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.08.17 06:05:00 -
[29]
Flying a thrasher is about one volleying pods, frigates, and giving AFs a serious second thought about leaving immediately. I had a lot of fun killing support in my thrasher whilst I was training for 'dictor bubbles.
Other than that, I have a totally useless sniping cormorant that can hit at 80km for craptastic dps, and a coercer serves no purpose but to clean up after L4 missions(MWD+nanonano!).
The Sabre is a fantastic ship, but isk for isk, the Thrasher is still the best podmobile out there, in my opinion(Plus, I cry a little less when I lose one). Shame the other destroyers are crap due to super XXL sig. It's somewhat ironic that the minmatar destroyer and interdictor are both clearly best in class...
One thing I would definately like to see is interdictors get their hp boosted at least to the level of their T1 counterparts.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.17 06:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 17/08/2007 06:13:52
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Liang Nuren and give it a tanking bonus.
Liang
Doesn't need it. Frankly, if you're having to tank damage in a destroyer, you're not doing it right to begin with. A destroyer's precious few mid and low slots should be used for far better things than tanking modules.
TBH, I know how to fly a Destroyer. I've solo'd assault frigs, and been teh ubar droneZ0r killar in more than 20 fights (in a destroyer).
My last two kills IN A DESTROYER were a Vexor and Cerberus. So tell me... when was the last time you got a kill in a destroyer?
Edit: I did discount pods from my "last two kills".
Liang
Originally by: "QproQ"
When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
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