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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:42:00 -
[1]
Be making a new class of freighter. Give it half or a fourth of the cargo space and 3 mids / 4 lows or 4/3 mid/low slots.
Then, people can still move truckloads of stuff around all safe n tidy in their tanked up stabbied "freighter".
Problem solved?
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 17/08/2007 12:44:01 With the changes on the "compression" method, players might actually need bigger freighters in order to transport more goods .
But you idea is nice to. Something is missing between transport and freighters, even outside of the so called freighter gank "problem".
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:46:00 -
[3]
Nope, the simplest solution would be not undocking. Viola, problem solved.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:50:00 -
[4]
I actually like the fact that this can happen in the game. Makes it more fun. If you want to mitigate your chances, go back to using industrials to hual your crap and just use really good expanders. You are cutting your cargo space by a significant amount, but I notice that gankers only bother scanning frieghters. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:56:00 -
[5]
there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Elroth
Clerks Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:57:00 -
[6]
why not just give it only 1 slow slot so you can fit a damage control
that would be enough to stop the silly empire ganks
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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SiJira there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters
Actually yes there is. Theres nothing between a ship with roughly 8,500 M2 to a ship with 850,000 M3
You dont see something a LITTLE wrong with that? It would be the same as having frigates, cruisers......and dreadnoughts.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters
Actually yes there is. Theres nothing between a ship with roughly 8,500 M2 to a ship with 850,000 M3
You dont see something a LITTLE wrong with that? It would be the same as having frigates, cruisers......and dreadnoughts.
actually its more like a ship with 25000 without rigs and with a minimum tank - now you might have not read the post you quoted so ill copy paste for your short attention span - freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume - ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:06:00 -
[9]
There is no problem with freighters being ganked, in the same way that there is no problem with people killing other combat ships in high sec.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:19:00 -
[10]
However, there is some kind of ship(s) missing, between 25000 m3 something and 750 000 m3 something.
I mean, people would whine if a BS could take down 30 cruisers at the same time... It's the same here.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
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Grif Oberwald
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elroth why not just give it only 1 slow slot so you can fit a damage control
that would be enough to stop the silly empire ganks
I believe this would not be done, due to the ability to fit Expanded Cargohold in that slot which would take the cargohold over 1,000,000m3 which I understand has some significance, maybe being able to transport a packaged battleship or something like that.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather However, there is some kind of ship(s) missing, between 25000 m3 something and 750 000 m3 something.
I mean, people would whine if a BS could take down 30 cruisers at the same time... It's the same here.
Its not like a freighter with slots would save anybody from getting suicided. The amount of dps from a suicide squad that must kill the ship before concord arrives is massive.
Add slots, and the force needs to be even larger. And it will be. They might as well just add resists if they want freighters to be more difficult to kill. But there is no problem in freighters getting killed. Its part of the game.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar Be making a new class of freighter. Give it half or a fourth of the cargo space and 3 mids / 4 lows or 4/3 mid/low slots.
Then, people can still move truckloads of stuff around all safe n tidy in their tanked up stabbied "freighter".
Problem solved?
did Hydra lose a freighter in hi-sec? Are you bitter that you arent 100% safe? There shouldnt be exclusions in safety just for freighters in empire. Quit it, travel with an escort, and this can all be resolved.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:28:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 17/08/2007 13:32:32 Hum, I never said anything about saving oneself from freighters. Just that some kind of transport doing less than 750000 and more than 25000 is needed. And I didn't specify any slots for it, the OP did...
A "safer" transport with large cargo would, however, save freighters from being ganked for 2 reasons : - there will be less freighters, since people can use other ships to transport large amount of goods - there will be less freighters, ganked, since pirates got new targets.
Oops, it's twice the same reason. Well, I don't care.
Example : - secure freighter. 200 000 m3 cargo, +1 warp strength / lvl of whatever skill you need to fly those. 1 slot of each kind. Hull / armor / shield : about a third of a freighter.
Creating those would fill a niche that's currently missing. That would be my idea to fill a niche. I don't believe ganking needs "fixing", the amount og hp in a freighter may need to be reevaluated depending on what the dev think the cost / risk for ganking should be. That's all.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters
Actually yes there is. Theres nothing between a ship with roughly 8,500 M2 to a ship with 850,000 M3
You dont see something a LITTLE wrong with that? It would be the same as having frigates, cruisers......and dreadnoughts.
actually its more like a ship with 25000 without rigs and with a minimum tank - now you might have not read the post you quoted so ill copy paste for your short attention span - freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume -
So your telling me a transport with no rigs or expanders is 25k m^3 cargo? I call BS. Show me the math (Yes, I'm lazy).
Secondly, you mean to tell me a transport can take more fire then a freighter before it goes down?? A freigher has a much shield alone as the entire transport added up (Give or take a bit).
The ONLY advantage a transport/industrial has is slots to fit modules. And maybe time to enter warp.
Now since you must have missed it let me say it again.
The jump between transport/industrial to freighter is about the same as if we had frigates, cruisers and dreadnoughts with nothing in between.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:31:00 -
[16]
Safe no where in EVE. Ganking a freighter requries a HUGE capital outlay and the cooperation of over 2 dozen pilots...I fail to see how this is a 'problem' plaguing FT's. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:35:00 -
[17]
Wouldnt the simplest solution to freighter ganks...
... be having a scout and an escort fleet? Actually with the scout you don't even need an escort fleet.
After some roaming ops in 0.0 without finding enemies I'm tempted to get a freighter op in empire, seeming they get all the action.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters
Actually yes there is. Theres nothing between a ship with roughly 8,500 M2 to a ship with 850,000 M3
You dont see something a LITTLE wrong with that? It would be the same as having frigates, cruisers......and dreadnoughts.
actually its more like a ship with 25000 without rigs and with a minimum tank - now you might have not read the post you quoted so ill copy paste for your short attention span - freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume -
So your telling me a transport with no rigs or expanders is 25k m^3 cargo? I call BS. Show me the math (Yes, I'm lazy).
Secondly, you mean to tell me a transport can take more fire then a freighter before it goes down?? A freigher has a much shield alone as the entire transport added up (Give or take a bit).
The ONLY advantage a transport/industrial has is slots to fit modules. And maybe time to enter warp.
Now since you must have missed it let me say it again.
The jump between transport/industrial to freighter is about the same as if we had frigates, cruisers and dreadnoughts with nothing in between.
let me say it again volume or tank you cant have both ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar Be making a new class of freighter. Give it half or a fourth of the cargo space and 3 mids / 4 lows or 4/3 mid/low slots.
Then, people can still move truckloads of stuff around all safe n tidy in their tanked up stabbied "freighter".
Problem solved?
That's an interesting idea...except that there isn't a problem to solve. CONCORD is fine and freighters are fine. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 26 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:52:00 -
[20]
There is obviously, however, of the problem, a kind of transport lacking. Since nowhere in the game there is a 1 to 30 gap between 2 ships with the same purpose. A new cargo ship capable of transporting something between 25 and 750 thousand m3.
Saying it doesn't need it would be saying that a ship like a BS should be able to do the work of 30 cruisers by itself.
Yeah, I'm repeating myself with the same argument, but I didn't see any counter to it. Apart that it is derailing the thread.
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:53:00 -
[21]
Well when mineralk compression is nerfed something will definetly be needed to facilitate the transport of more goods. The nerf will make it so you can only carry a minimal portion o minerals as compared to pre-patch levels.
The most effect will be seen in the already stressed mineral markets of 0.0, where alot of the mineral supply is imported from empire. After the patch is released i see the mineral prices in 0.0 doubling practically overnight, which means the cost of ships, modules, and ammunition will also drastically increase due to the higher build costs.
I believe that a jump freighter is needed so that the vast quantities of minerals needed for an 0.0 can be still be imported at pre-patch levels. I think that the ore capital ship should be the most efficient method of moving materials, but there should also be an alternative so minerals can still be imported.
We dont need an empire freighter with a tanking ability, but we do need an alternative for 0.0 so we can still get similar levels of minerals so we dont wreck 0.0 markets . Do not read this thread!!!
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Judas Lonestar
Originally by: SiJira there is nothing missing between transports and freighters freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume
there is no in between - there was never meant to be - and CCP will not add it because they were reluctant to even add freighters
Actually yes there is. Theres nothing between a ship with roughly 8,500 M2 to a ship with 850,000 M3
You dont see something a LITTLE wrong with that? It would be the same as having frigates, cruisers......and dreadnoughts.
actually its more like a ship with 25000 without rigs and with a minimum tank - now you might have not read the post you quoted so ill copy paste for your short attention span - freighters are the trade off from good tank to good volume -
So your telling me a transport with no rigs or expanders is 25k m^3 cargo? I call BS. Show me the math (Yes, I'm lazy).
Secondly, you mean to tell me a transport can take more fire then a freighter before it goes down?? A freigher has a much shield alone as the entire transport added up (Give or take a bit).
The ONLY advantage a transport/industrial has is slots to fit modules. And maybe time to enter warp.
Now since you must have missed it let me say it again.
The jump between transport/industrial to freighter is about the same as if we had frigates, cruisers and dreadnoughts with nothing in between.
My occator with full t2 expanders and no rigs is a 26 and change. -=^=-
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 13:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather There is obviously, however, of the problem, a kind of transport lacking. Since nowhere in the game there is a 1 to 30 gap between 2 ships with the same purpose. A new cargo ship capable of transporting something between 25 and 750 thousand m3.
Saying it doesn't need it would be saying that a ship like a BS should be able to do the work of 30 cruisers by itself.
Yeah, I'm repeating myself with the same argument, but I didn't see any counter to it. Apart that it is derailing the thread.
do you realize that you are lucky that you can even fly a freighter?
be careful what you wish for ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 17/08/2007 14:01:58
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather There is obviously, however, of the problem, a kind of transport lacking. Since nowhere in the game there is a 1 to 30 gap between 2 ships with the same purpose. A new cargo ship capable of transporting something between 25 and 750 thousand m3.
Saying it doesn't need it would be saying that a ship like a BS should be able to do the work of 30 cruisers by itself.
Yeah, I'm repeating myself with the same argument, but I didn't see any counter to it. Apart that it is derailing the thread.
do you realize that you are lucky that you can even fly a freighter?
be careful what you wish for
So... just because I'm somehow lucky to be able to fly a freighter, I shouldn't ask for such an oversight to be fixed ? Do you realize that what you say has no connection and doesn't contradict anything that I've said ?
-- Siggie ! Come back here ! --
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job
Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather So... just because I'm somehow lucky to be able to fly a freighter, I shouldn't ask for such an oversight to be fixed ? Do you realize that what you say has no connection and doesn't contradict anything that I've said ?
That might be correct if this were actually an oversight. It's not, it was an intentional move. CONCORD does what it's supposed to do, and it's designed that people can still attack other people in high-sec space even if they lose their ship in the process. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 26 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:10:00 -
[26]
Actually, the simplest solution would be to remove insurance payouts on concord deaths.
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Aceoil
Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Aceoil on 17/08/2007 14:24:14 This is how to get around a freighter gank:
What you need: 1 Freighter 1 Webbing ship 1 alt rookie ship
Use the webbing ship to web the freighter into warp quicker so that your enemies cannot scan your cargohold.
If you come upon a gate with 15 battleships on the gate, you will be attacked. Get your alt rookie ship to attack one of the players, and therefore spawn concord on the gate. Once concord has spawned, the attackers will give up cause they will not be able to take down your freighter. Or they attack, and you only get down to 10% structure, cause concord took them out before they could finish you off.
Originally by: Elmicker Actually, the simplest solution would be to remove insurance payouts on concord deaths.
Fail! If you get insurance removed on freighter ganks, WE gankers will adapt and continue to destroy you guys. I already know how we are going to do it IF insurance gets the boot.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.17 14:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ares Lightfeather
And...
How does that contradict the idea of having a new transport ship with, let's say : - 200 000 m3 of base cargo, - 1 or 2 slots of each kind ?
@Seeing EyeDog : I don't want to fit a tank on a freighter, I want to see a freighter with a smaller cargo and some slots... reading comprehension lvl 1 needed here too, it seems...
Quote:
And concerning the second "answer" of sijira, just because it doesn't exist means it's never meant to be ? I understand that as "no new things must ever be added to the game, because it doesn't exist now". Which is pretty stupid. I ask for a new thing because it's a new thing. Because it doesn't exist.
who said it wont exist because it doesnt exist now? you trying to read between the lines again there?
nice post btw in the locked thread first you call me a he - fail then you think i dont have an answer for you where you keep repeating the same ignorant garbage ive answered several times in this thread - fail
freighters were added by CCP reluctantly - do you get this part? - you are lucky they got added at all - still following me? - CCP doesnt want anything significantly bigger in cargo space than an industrial or transport that has slots moving large volumes is one of those things in game you either do in a group or you take your chances and hope you dont get caught
let me know where you begin having troubles with comprehension ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Nathomos
Minmatar Crimson Fists
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:37:00 -
[29]
Freighters don't need slots and nothing needs to be changed. If you don't want to get ganked don't travel around with billions in a ship with no one to help you defend it!
Also, we don't need a midrange freighter, they are major factors in business but need to come at a capital price to keep balance, if there was a smaller cheaper freighter there would be less investment needed to get involved with mass transport which would make freighters less valuable assets to a corp. In my opinion, things are fine the way they are.
This is coming from a freighter pilot (Fenrir) and I don't see the need to change this, risk vs reward plays out perfectly here. Don't carry a reward in your cargo worth them throwing away their ships.
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Solid Wilko
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.08.17 15:50:00 -
[30]
Freighter ganks are fine. Just fix shp insurance when killed by concord. Voila
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