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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
76
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I still use Phantasms every once and a wile but for its price and requirements I feel I'm always just better of shield tanking a harrbi. Any one got any advice to breath new life in to this hull? I flyed them pulse form 09' to now should I be trying beams on them? haven't got a Nightmare yet, probably wont for some time as I have other goals in mind. Tho there price is high so it must be loved. And lastly the Succubus I couldn't even find a fit I wanted to undock.
So any tips or tricks? |
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1882
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fool, Alphatasm..Succibimine... [Phantasm, Alphatasm] Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP M [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
[Succubus, Succibimine] Co-Processor II Co-Processor II
1MN Afterburner II Small Shield Extender II Small Shield Extender II Small Shield Extender II
Miner II Miner II [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Small Cargohold Optimization I Small Cargohold Optimization I Small Cargohold Optimization I
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!-áRemember EVE is EVErything! |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
They're pointless. They've been surpassed by other pirate factions in every way. (EHP, DPS, Speed) |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
76
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanx but has no projectile skills as they are Minnitard and barbarous. Also mining makes me sleepy.
I know, I know but I want to like and use them, even if its not 100% the best. I'll be honest its the googlie eyes. |
Goose99
674
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Trade it in for a nice Cynnabal. Winmatar Wins. |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
199
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
These are old ships and have been replaced |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
76
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
But CAN some thing be done with these neat looking space shrimp? Im going to just fly some to there doom any way. looking for "not almost nano harrbi" fits. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:But CAN some thing be done with these neat looking space shrimp? Im going to just fly some to there doom any way. looking for "not almost nano harrbi" fits.
In all seriousness, the Nightmare can put up a nasty active shield tank if you have a couple billion to spend. I don't really see a viable use for the Phantasm or Succubus, though, other than getting more people to engage you. |
Aisha's Vengence
19
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
My Talos. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
76
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:But CAN some thing be done with these neat looking space shrimp? Im going to just fly some to there doom any way. looking for "not almost nano harrbi" fits. In all seriousness, the Nightmare can put up a nasty active shield tank if you have a couple billion to spend. I don't really see a viable use for the Phantasm or Succubus, though, other than getting more people to engage you.
Bait angle could be fun. Got a fit handy? Im stuck with no acsess to a fitting tool or EvE.. |
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Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.01.16 02:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Roosterton wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:But CAN some thing be done with these neat looking space shrimp? Im going to just fly some to there doom any way. looking for "not almost nano harrbi" fits. In all seriousness, the Nightmare can put up a nasty active shield tank if you have a couple billion to spend. I don't really see a viable use for the Phantasm or Succubus, though, other than getting more people to engage you. Bait angle could be fun. Got a fit handy? Im stuck with no acsess to a fitting tool or EvE..
[Nightmare, Highsec station games] Damage Control II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II
X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Heavy Nosferatu II Heavy Nosferatu II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Hammerhead II x5
Has cap issues, but can burst tank 1032 DPS (1478 w/heated tank) while dishing out 1127 of its own. Of course, the moment you run out of cap boosters, you're dead.
If you decide to spend some more cash on a crystal set and use standard blue pill, the burst tank skyrockets to 1852 or 2600 w/heat. Throw in a Tengu providing siege warfare links, and your tank will be a staggering 2839 DPS or 4094 if you heat. And finally, upgrade the shield mods to X-type and CN invulns, and you'll be at...
*drumroll*
6758, 10554 with heat. Of course, due to how horrible the cap situation is, you're not going to keep that up for very long, but certainly long enough to do your damage and/or wait for help to arrive. Of course, by this point you could probably buy a couple carriers to perform the same role for better, so meh.
(Experts are calling this an "EFT Warrior.") |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
143
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Posted - 2012.01.16 04:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Or you could buy a maelstrom. It has capless guns, tanks just as well and has better tracking.
Regardless, I've looked at the sansha ships and they are pretty underwhelming. Compared to any of the faction/t2 stuff, they are neither terribly good nor do anything interesting. They are pure gank and tank ships that lack any real advantage over their navy/t2 counterparts. It's not that they suck, a phantasm is certainly a match for a navy omen for example. The problem is it's exactly that, a match. The phantasm is nothing more than a shield tanked navy omen. It doesn't even have the usual speed/agility advantages you'd expect from a shield tanker. The same can be said for the succubus and the nightmare. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.01.16 05:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Or you could buy a maelstrom. It has capless guns, tanks just as well and has better tracking.
He wanted bait. Who would pass up attacking a Nightmare?
Also, Nightmare's vertical, has spikes, better optimal, and better DPS. It's also got 100m3 more of cargospace, which is very important when active tanking. Also, Nightmare has a *slightly* better burst tank, and improved base capacitor to compensate for needing to use lasers.
Is it worth the hilarious pricetag? No, probably not, but it's not quite as obsolete as the Phantasm/Succubus are, imo. |
Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium The Forsaken.
36
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Posted - 2012.01.16 07:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
I love flying the phantasm, and back in 2009-2010 I was on a crusade for CCP to make it more competitive. Apparently they have more important things to be doing than game balance. Cross trained winmatar, fly AC boats. Life is just better this way. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all. |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
93
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Posted - 2012.01.16 09:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Succubus can be a nasty ship for 1 v 1 frig combat vs the right foe.
[Succubus, Slutty Bus]
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S Small Nosferatu II Small Nosferatu II
Medium Shield Extender II Medium Shield Extender II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
8.5k EHP, 150 DPS. Could be worse. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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CooganV3
Clint Eastwood Appreciation Society
0
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Posted - 2012.01.16 09:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Might just be me but the pirate faction ships are unbalanced in the sense that Gallente/Minmatar have 2 ships to choose from with pirate factions in each class of ship. Taking the backstory with the races into account, it seems that there is some racism going on here on CCPs part :P Gall/Min vs Amarr/Cald
Quote:Frigates Cruor - Amarr/Minmatar Daredevil - Gallente/Minmatar Dramiel - Gallente/Minmatar Succubus - Amarr/Caldari Worm - Caldari/Gallente
Cruisers Ashimmu - Amarr/Minmatar Cynabal - Gallente/Minmatar Gila - Caldari/Gallente Phantasm - Amarr/Caldari Vigilant - Gallente/Minmatar
Battleships Bhaalgorn - Amarr/Minmatar Nightmare - Amarr/Caldari Rattlesnake - Caldari/Gallente Machariel - Gallente/Minmatar Vindicator - Gallente/Minmatar
In each class, there are 2x Gal/Min ships to choose from.
So to the point...
CCP, please create new Amarr/Caldari faction Pirate ships that are not out of date and have some use to balance this out. Perhaps something that is useful/balanced/equivalent with the other ships ? As an idea, maybe this can be fixed along with the much talked about fixes to FW !
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
588
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 10:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:But CAN some thing be done with these neat looking space shrimp? Im going to just fly some to there doom any way. looking for "not almost nano harrbi" fits. In all seriousness, the Nightmare can put up a nasty active shield tank if you have a couple billion to spend. I don't really see a viable use for the Phantasm or Succubus, though, other than getting more people to engage you.
Yeah I found the cap on the Phantasm and Succubus just didn't support an active tank. It just didn't seem possible to pull off with the guns + MWD sucking your capacitor dry. Hell - the Phantasm is so bad for cap that its kinda hard to justify invulns most of the time. :|
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
45
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Posted - 2012.01.16 10:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Nightmare has its uses, not least in pve. The succubus and phantasm are both just bad. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 10:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ill give some of these fits a couple of run's on the test server!!
The nightmare is cool looking, but In a group of ships that I need way more support skills for.
Ya minni and gal getting 2 hulls is bonk, not like there isn't plenty of groups that could be the missing pear up * cough rougedrones/Equilibrium of Mankind/Mordu's Legion cough* |
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2012.01.16 13:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Nightmare is a nice ship, but the other 2 are just plain useless. I fly a Phantasm occasionally when doing level 3s for fun with a rookie mate, but not because it is good at them - it's just nice to fly something different, plus it looks good.
I'm pretty certain from memory that the Phantasm has one less slot than all the other Faction Cruisers, it's also tight to fit, has a weak cap and is slower than a navy omen? Not really bothered looking at the succubus at all... I'd love to see them get a bit of a boost. If the Phantasm had a nice speed boost (even if agility didn't change) it could atleast be useful for a bit of nano/kiting for Amarr pilots in shield gangs :) |
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Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
58
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Posted - 2012.01.16 16:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:The Nightmare is a nice ship, but the other 2 are just plain useless. I fly a Phantasm occasionally when doing level 3s for fun with a rookie mate, but not because it is good at them - it's just nice to fly something different, plus it looks good.
I'm pretty certain from memory that the Phantasm has one less slot than all the other Faction Cruisers, it's also tight to fit, has a weak cap and is slower than a navy omen? Not really bothered looking at the succubus at all... I'd love to see them get a bit of a boost. If the Phantasm had a nice speed boost (even if agility didn't change) it could atleast be useful for a bit of nano/kiting for Amarr pilots in shield gangs :) Agreed, mostly. I have heard of some folks flying "bleeder" Succubus fits, but those pilots have to be choosy about their prey, or else they DIAHF (there are several ships out there that have a nasty habit of eating frigates for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). 'Phasm's short a slot and has a chronically wheezy cap to boot, end of story.
The Nightmare, on the other hand, is a very nice PvE boat (L4s blitz-style against all factions except maybe Angels, Sleepers solo in C2/C3 space and in spider tanked shield gangs for C4-C6 work, you will want a cap chain partner in C4-C6 space though, and Incursions too). It sees less use in PvP, but if you have the cash to spare, you might be able to pull off a shield-tanked equivalent to a Hellcat Abbadon with it. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
279
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 17:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't know about the Nightmare, but I have flown the Succubus and Phantasm. They make decent DPS ships of their class. That is, the Succubus functions as an AF that is actually Y1, and the Phantasm functions as a short range HAC (like the Deimos) that is actually T1. This distinction makes them useful for FW plexes and other "class-limited" areas.
The reason they are widely viewed as underpowered is how they relate to other ships:
The Succubus does AF levels of damage, but has a worse tank and costs two times as much as an AF. It could use a little more damage or speed or something to make it more than a giant expensive paperweight.
The Phantasm is functionally the same as a HAC (tank, damage, speed, etc), but battlecruisers cost half as much and do more damage, tank more, and in some cases, are faster and more agile. The reason Phantasms aren't used is the same reason short range HACs aren't used: for the same price, you could fly two short range battlecruisers. That is just a general balance problem with battlecruisers that really should be addressed.
Each of the other pirate faction lineups have some sort of "unique perk" that makes it worth flying them compared to other ships of similar value. Angels? Fast as hell, and good falloff and tracking. Blood Raiders? Amazing webs and neuts. Guristas? Amazing tanks and too many drones. Serpentis? All of the damage ever, speed, plus awesome webs. The Sansha bonuses are just "excellent at straight up combat", and they really can't compete with AFs/battlecruisers on that front. Even the Nightmare doesn't do that much damage.
That said, I should mention that the Sansha line of ships sports extraordinary laser tracking. As a frigate pilot, I have learned to avoid the reaction of "ha ha, that ship has Heavy Pulse Laser IIs, I can just orbit it at 500m and it won't touch me". That reaction leads to horrible death. It's not enough to redeem the bad reputation of Sansha ships, but it is at least a small reason to fly them. "Deceptively good laser tracking" doesn't sound awesome as "webs with 90% speed reduction" though. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
591
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 17:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: That said, I should mention that the Sansha line of ships sports extraordinary laser tracking. As a frigate pilot, I have learned to avoid the reaction of "ha ha, that ship has Heavy Pulse Laser IIs, I can just orbit it at 500m and it won't touch me". That reaction leads to horrible death. It's not enough to redeem the bad reputation of Sansha ships, but it is at least a small reason to fly them. "Deceptively good laser tracking" doesn't sound as "webs with 90% speed reduction" though.
Heh, yeah... exactly that.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
143
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Indeed, and tbh you'd be surprised at how many people don't realize just how bad of an idea trying to duck under the guns of an ashimmu with an AF is. It has to be among the funniest things in eve. And that is what the phantasm lacks, that distinct capability that separates it from everything else. It's just another gunboat and it isn't a particularly good one either. It's just average. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
279
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:Indeed, and tbh you'd be surprised at how many people don't realize just how bad of an idea trying to duck under the guns of an ashimmu with an AF is. It has to be among the funniest things in eve. And that is what the phantasm lacks, that distinct capability that separates it from everything else. It's just another gunboat and it isn't a particularly good one either. It's just average. And expensive. Don't forget that part.
Oh! And spiky! |
Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
9
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm not sure what I'd change on the Phantasm to make it *different* to everything else though. The only thing I can think of is something that would really likely end up with some unpopular opinion. ie a big bonus specifically to using Beam lasers instead of Pulse. As it stands I don't think I've ever seen medium beam lasers used on anything except a long range sniper Zealot when Pulse/Scorch can't quite cope!
Grabbing a frigate with an Ashimmu is so much fun :D |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
79
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Honestly to make them different at this point would mean taking there extra hi-slots away and giving them +1 gun, would it be a little op in the damage department yes, would the others still do a lot more yes.
Well cap is proving to be a problem, and he fitting is also tough, but I'm going to get a phantasm fit i like even if it takes a week or too.
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Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium The Forsaken.
36
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Posted - 2012.01.16 19:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
More cap, another low, +2 light drones/bay. Oh, and enough fitting to actually use the slots. Perhaps a slight speed/handling tweak. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all. |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.16 20:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Don't listen to anyone. Succubus and Phantasm look way too cool! Pump this into eft, see if you like
[Phantasm, my beast] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
10MN Afterburner II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, NAVY Cap Booster 400
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M 50W Infectious Power System Malfunction 5W Infectious Power System Malfunction
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x3
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
591
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 20:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
What would make the Succubus/Phantasm interesting as hell would be a 100% cap use bonus on those lasers... :)
-Liang
Ed: And maybe +1 turret. :D Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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