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Nobuo213
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Posted - 2007.09.22 19:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rannek Ven I am so sick of everyone wanting to nerf cloaks because they're inconvenienced by people who are dedicated to do just that. While the enemy is cloaked, he can't do anything. If he's AFK in your system, find another. It's a sacrifice on his part as well to sit around cloaked. He isn't making any isk. Having a station in 0.0 isn't a free pass to make isk at your pleasure.
QFT. Cloaking is fine as it is.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.23 16:22:00 -
[32]
2 solutions for the cloaking problem:
1) Grow some balls
2) Quit
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Valharu
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Posted - 2007.09.23 19:39:00 -
[33]
I think the issue about Cloaking really comes down to several things. Do we all want a all or nothing system, or do we like the old sub hunt idea. If all or nothing, well we pretty much have that. Read no further.
If we want a sub hunt, then I present a idea below, percentage figures are subject to change, they are just there for show as a idea. I personaly don't think it would any more lag then if you were already in a battle with weapons fire and ecm flying everywhere.
1)The Cloak itself.
I think for the most part, Cloaks are fine (I think the speed restriction should be gone or greatly lessened, maybe tap your cap like MWDs do when not in use) if you have a decent scanning system to find them just like the old sub hunts where the destroyers ran around pinging for a location.
2) Scanning for Cloaked ship.
I believe every ship should be able to scan for a cloaked ship. It should be based on the Scanning ship sensor rating vs the sig of the cloaked ship.
It would be a active effect using the tactical scanner we have now, have it so every time you hit scan it costs you a stated amount of energy just like a modual and is a 10 sec cycle.
Standard ships get half their sensor range for scanning for cloaked ship, and it still chance based, closer they are they higher the chance, at the end of your range, the lower the chance. Cov OPs and Recons get their full sensor range. It bascily means smaller ships have a harder time with their smaller sensor range and rating but are harder to find. Larger ships have a easier time to locate cloaked ships but its harder for them to not be found while cloaked do to their massive sig. Nice balance there.
Now just cause you scanned out a cloaked ship, does not mean you have decloaked them, just means YOU (not your gang) saw through it for that 10 sec cycle are able to fire on it, which will have to be checked again at the start of the new cycle. Each ship sees or not sees a cloaked ship interdependent of any other ships.
Once you have seen through it, you may fire on the cloaked ship as long as your lock and cycle permit. If you lose lock, will have to wait till the next cycle to spot and lock them again.
Basicly it creats a sub hunt idea. Neither the Cloaked ship nor the people looking for the cloaked ship have it 100% either way.
It brings lots of people into play, a small ship that finds a cloaked ship 60km from the gate and fires on it, will have to call other people over since they now know the general area of the hostile and can start hunting it and it can still get away and come back to spy some more, if the ships lose lock.
Scan probes just provide a area in the largeness of space of where to look and start hunting, may even upping the chance of the ships looking for a cloaker.
The idea is to promate a balance enviroment for the cloaked and those activily looking for the cloaked.
I think the chances to find them should be based on the ship, plus skills.
Standard ship: Sees out to half his senosr range. From ship point to 5km out 50% tapering to 0% at the end of their range.
Cov Ops: See their full sensor range. From ship point to 5km out 50%, tapering to 0% at the end of their range 0%.
Recons: See their full sensor range. From ship point to 20km out 50%, tapering to 0% at the end of their range.
All +/- based of sensor vs sig. I seperated Cov Ops from Recon, cause Cov Ops are much harder to find and Recon are more the hunters.
And the type of cloaked use could add to it the chances of being found, Prototype cloak being the basic, to Cov Ops Cloak being the hardes to find.
I think only the stealth bomber should be able to fit the impoved cloak, all others use the Prototype.
Thoughts or tweaks?
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Pirate Tom
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Posted - 2007.09.23 22:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Red Harvest I would love to know what CCP thinks! If they actually see the massiv use of cloaks (or more how they are used) as a problem or not.
I seriously doubt they see it as a problem. I see a lot of whining in this thread that basically boils down to 'I'm scared of something I can't see'. I was always under the impression that such was the intent of cloaking devices. A cloaked ship (apart from Stealth Bombers) are more or less powerless for a short time after they uncloak, as well as seriously hindering the targetting speed of the ship equipping it (exception are the Covops Frigs and Recons which have no res penalty from Covops cloaks) allowing a wary pilot time to react, possibly gaining the advantage or escaping.
If you want your pulse decloaker, fit a smartbomb and fly in circles.
Quote:
The wonderful thing about pirates is pirates is wonderful things. Their box is filled up with killmails and they love to hear the screams!
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Syndicus
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Posted - 2007.09.24 10:57:00 -
[35]
Just beg CCP to change Local settings, such that you only appear in local if you type.
Only then will everyone be happy.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2007.09.24 10:59:00 -
[36]
Edited by: ViolenTUK on 24/09/2007 10:59:41 There is no cloaking problem. Please leave cloaking devices alone. You SHOULD NOT be able to scan for cloaked ships.
www.eve-players.com |
Spaztik Ferret
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Posted - 2007.09.24 23:07:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Spaztik Ferret on 24/09/2007 23:08:32 Edited by: Spaztik Ferret on 24/09/2007 23:07:38 I think there is a point that everyone here fails to realize, from an RP, science fiction and science fact standpoint.
What is a "cloak"? In my opinion it is related to active camoflauge (which exists in RL by the way although in a very primitive form at the moment). Think "Halo" or "Predator".
Active camoflauge only distorts your perception of the cloaked object, that object simply does not disappear. It still has mass and will still reflect waves such as Radar, Sonar (maybe not in space), and infared.
The ship still exists, so it should be able to be scanned out.
Not only that but a ship running active comms and sensors could also have any data that it transmits intercepted, therefore giving away it's position.
So either:
A: Make cloaked ships probable (yet challenging) B: Make cloaked ships (non- covops cloak) lose control of all sensors/ and non-secure comm systems. No scanning, no local, no moving, no watching a gate (screen goes black), you're dead in the water and will need to rely on proper intel to know whats going on around you.
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Ort Lofthus
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Posted - 2007.09.25 06:51:00 -
[38]
A nerf to local solves the whole issue, I believe. Something where scouted hostiles show in local but unscouted ones don't. That way, the cloaked AFK combat guys don't know when its safe to come out without scouting around quite a bit, but more importantly it completely hoses the cloaking NPCers. Are they aligned to get out? I bet they are not when they enter the belt, and they have no idea you are cloaked and in the belt with them. Even if they are aligned, you can just get youself in line so you can bump them, then jam them, scram them, and call in the cavalry.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2007.09.25 08:40:00 -
[39]
I agree with remove the local chat for cloaked ships. Othrewise cloaking doesnt need a nerf. Cloaked ships should be cloaked and impossible to detect with probes.
www.eve-players.com |
Sverre Haakonson
Gallente Burnout Syndrome SECUWAY.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 10:05:00 -
[40]
There is no problem with cloaking, but to many whiners. If someone is cloaking afk you know, a group is comming at a later time. It's one of the best warnings you can get and if you get stressed you should abandoned your account. A group of miners should have scouts. There is no meaning to earn ISK like Scrooge McDuck in this game. Stop whining.
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Alexandryos Solarius
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Posted - 2007.09.25 20:45:00 -
[41]
0.0 should be not risk free enviroment like it is right now, not only cloak is a problem but the lack of "5 mim pve agression timer in 0.0".
The only ppl who can really complain about cloak nerf are the ones who whant a "risk free 0.0 isk farming enviroment". Thas the big problem, all the ppl with gilberish names farming 500m / day with 0.00001% risk of being blowed plus the carebears that whant to be in 0.0 winouth the risk of a pvp engagement.
Whant a scout? Simple, train up a covops. Theres no problem at all in a spy cloaked in your home system inside a damed spy covops ship.
Whant a bio breack ? Logout, eve is not intended to be played afk.
So if the point of view outside from the personal advantages, with a google or even with glasses you shall see how the "cloak-mama-help-red-in-local-riskfree-device" can damage eve economy (goint to break 100 trilions isk mark :P) , customer suppor among other things.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.25 21:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Alexandryos Solarius
The only ppl who can really complain about cloak nerf are the ones who whant a "risk free 0.0 isk farming enviroment". Thas the big problem, all the ppl with gilberish names farming 500m / day with 0.00001% risk of being blowed plus the carebears that whant to be in 0.0 winouth the risk of a pvp engagement.
This goes the other way too.
The majority of people calling for a nerf to cloaks are ones that want to rat/mine in 0.0 but feel they can't because there is a cloaked ship in local. They want to FARM in 0.0 but can't because someone they can't see is there and they won't have a cover ship guard them because it "hurts their profits".
Sounds balanced to me. Make cloaks probable and you will increase farming as much as you decrease it in other ways
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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Bob Niac
Gallente FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.25 23:22:00 -
[43]
To the Op: No. System Scanners at the POS are enough. Actually un-cloaking ships is WAAAY overboard.
Now, that is not to say I am against scanning out cloaked ships. I am actually trying to figure out if I like this idea I came up with.
See cloaked ships cause an effect that allows the ship to not exert forces electromagnetic and gravimetric energies. (you can see through them and sensors [LADAR {light aka EM Waves}, RADAR {radio, EM again}, magnometric, and gravimetric])
But the relation to sound was never (to my knowledge) explained.
LOOPHOLE! Heh.
So, seeing as we have all these nice gas clouds roaming about, why not use them (or maybe atmospheric gases from moons, scince they have NO use) to make a bomb that spews air out to allow for several "pings" from a sonar module.
Thoughts? Rants? Yelling at me for throwing this thread on another track?
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Sverre Haakonson
Gallente Burnout Syndrome SECUWAY.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 06:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
The majority of people calling for a nerf to cloaks are ones that want to rat/mine in 0.0 but feel they can't because there is a cloaked ship in local. They want to FARM in 0.0 but can't because someone they can't see is there and they won't have a cover ship guard them because it "hurts their profits".
/signed
I had never problems with cloakers. Most of them were blew up.
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Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.26 08:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Icome4u
Originally by: Meditril There is no problem with cloaking---execpt that cloaked ships are listed in local. Remove cloaked ships from local.
That would be scary (not saying its a bad idea). Imagine a cloak spy... you think everything is alright while he gives out information. Next thing you know, you are dead b/c of the information he gave out.
Scary heh? :D
Actually it'd be kind of nice if cloaks changed your name in local to some kind of placeholder.
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Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2007.09.26 09:20:00 -
[46]
Just make cloaked ships 100% resistent to all damage types while cloaked, but still be visible. Then atleast we can bump them
It wouldn't matter much vs the current system as there is 0 risk while cloaked anyway.
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Bobbechk
Spontaneous Defenestration
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Posted - 2007.10.04 10:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Brixer
Just make cloaked ships 100% resistent to all damage types while cloaked, but still be visible. Then atleast we can bump them
It wouldn't matter much vs the current system as there is 0 risk while cloaked anyway.
Thats the dumbest thing i ever heard
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Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.04 11:06:00 -
[48]
Penalize (or disable) the fitting of cloaks to non-covops/recon/bomber ships. Problem solved!
Those 3 ship classes are MEANT to cloak, so any whining about a cloaked Pilgrim preventing you and your 15 buddies from ratting in piece is meant to do exactly that. Cloaking ravens are just wrong though... _______________
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Ieldan
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Posted - 2007.10.04 11:34:00 -
[49]
Why is every so bothered about afk cloakers??? there not doing any harm are they? They cant warp, and if they do make a move they have a re-cal time that sucks so theres no worries.
And whats the point in been able to probe out a cloaker, isnt the idea of the cloak that you cant be found, no matter what ship your in you should be able to fit a cloak otherwise its unfair, why arnt ppl allowed to be ratting and they when system fills up ss and cloak? Im sure if you couldnt ud be a bit ****ed.
If there is a solution there should be a module that you can fit on your ship like a smartbomb and it sends out a pulse say 30Km radius and de-cloaks anything in that radius. So you can still find those recon ships or bombers at the gates or close to your gang/fleet. And if hes far out and watching well that tuff you have to deal with it.
End of the day ppl are whining about cloaked afker is cos they want to get easy kills cos they suck at real pvp. Leave them alone and dont bring out the nerf bat.
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:45:00 -
[50]
Funnily enough there are Carebears and PvPer on both sides of the "discussion".
Carebear side: Pro-Cloaking because they can hide from hostiles entering their hunting/mining system. Contra-Cloaking because they are annoyed about the cloakers camping their hunting/mining system.
PvPer side: Pro-Cloaking a) because they want to hunt ppl in hostile territory, b) because they do want to gather intel, c) because the want to camp hostiles systems and annoy their hunter/miners. Contra-Cloaking because they want to be able to hunt down everything.
Im pretty much in favor of being able to probe the cloakers out but basicly only because i want a counter to every module.
AND i think instead of going afk ppl should rather log out if it takes longer than 15min!!! To me its just rude and annoying if they stay online just because they got an ISP flatrate. Ever tried talking to a corpmate and after trying to reach him for an hour, when he finally answeres you get a response like "oh sry was just afk for dinner". bah! Im not asking for an automatic logoff after x minutes inactivity, just an afk-flag for corp/ally chat you can set yourself. (dont care for local)
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Winters Chill
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.10.05 08:00:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lydia Browm The main problem with this is that people cloak in others Home systems, so they are your home system becasue you have a pos there, kk thats good, instead of nerfing cloaks why not:
Introduce a module that sends out a signal the decloak all non friendly ships every 5 minutes one per system and requiring Sov level 2 or 3 ?
Make it so it is an external module so the only thing that would be able to destroy it is a fleet.
This way cloaks can still be utilized when in the middle of a rl crisis for short periods of time ect and it stops people going afk for 23 hours a day.
Suggestions ?
Or maybe a timer on the cloak of 5 mins and then you reactivate it, the problem here is just people going afk ect to be an annoyance.
No. What are the point of cloaks then?
The point opf cloaks is to hide you. If your hiding you can't attack, just because it deprives you of an easy gank. Yes I cloak, yes I live in space thats not mine, yes Im in an NPC corp, but without a cloak I'd last about 10 seconds ( I know because Ive tried before). Don't take way other peoples right (including solo/casual players) to exist in 0.0.
Your suggestions make cloaks worthless, may as well say "remove cloaks".
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Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.10.05 08:12:00 -
[52]
Cloaking is balanced, no need to change it. -------------------------- Research & Trade |
Mad0ne
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:43:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Mad0ne on 05/10/2007 11:46:21
Originally by: Murkelost
Originally by: GEEE Man Limit cloaks to cloaking ships?
cloaking npcing ravens suck donkey ----'s
If you wanna NPC and cloak at the sign of danger, get a recon or somthing!
Signed
Havent seen better idea anywhere nor I havent came up with better one myself!
Limit cloaks to cloaking ships Is perfect solution for this all cloaking problem!
And stealth bombers still do need some love :P + coverts should have ability to scan cloakers ^^
Originally by: Tradesman Mcgee Cloaking is balanced, no need to change it.
Whatte f**k???? If you state anything, explain it or dont waste your time!
I can say that "logoffski" is totally balanced, no need to change that! DUH...
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Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.05 12:00:00 -
[54]
Going back to the original question, I honestly don't see the issue with being able to cloak in the home systems of others. That's kind of the whole point. Remember that Eve allows for all manner of different players to go out and have a good time. Let us not forget that part...Eve is a game.
All said some people really enjoy the challenge of gathering intel on their enemies. Most of the suggestions for nerfing cloaks goes directly against their ability to do so. Yes, AFK cloaking is a big pain in the backside, but honestly they aren't really hurting you directly.
This also brings up another fun element of Eve: psychological warfare. I like that angle. I don't like it when it is employed against me, but I certainly think the overall idea is a nice one and am glad it is there. The more different types of play the better in my book.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2007.10.05 12:21:00 -
[55]
Psychological warfare isnt listed on your charachter sheet but is a great weapon. This is somthing that cloaking devices were made for. We need cloaking devices to be left alone as they are so we can maximize the effect.
www.eve-players.com |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.10.05 12:39:00 -
[56]
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
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GodsEvE
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:06:00 -
[57]
Nerff cloak to hell Cloak is evil. Only noobs that cant muster up real fleets to fight you use cloaks. And scouts that have balls of steel use ceptorst not cov ops. Only wussies use cov ops :D. ohh and carebears that should not be in lowsec and 0.0 to begin with
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.10.05 19:56:00 -
[58]
Hahaha cry more! Your tears make me strong!
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Duhban
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Posted - 2007.10.06 03:13:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Duhban on 06/10/2007 03:14:52 Edited by: Duhban on 06/10/2007 03:14:19
Originally by: Spaztik Ferret Edited by: Spaztik Ferret on 24/09/2007 23:08:32 Edited by: Spaztik Ferret on 24/09/2007 23:07:38 I think there is a point that everyone here fails to realize, from an RP, science fiction and science fact standpoint.
What is a "cloak"? In my opinion it is related to active camoflauge (which exists in RL by the way although in a very primitive form at the moment). Think "Halo" or "Predator".
Active camoflauge only distorts your perception of the cloaked object, that object simply does not disappear. It still has mass and will still reflect waves such as Radar, Sonar (maybe not in space), and infared.
The ship still exists, so it should be able to be scanned out.
Not only that but a ship running active comms and sensors could also have any data that it transmits intercepted, therefore giving away it's position.
So either:
A: Make cloaked ships probable (yet challenging) B: Make cloaked ships (non- covops cloak) lose control of all sensors/ and non-secure comm systems. No scanning, no local, no moving, no watching a gate (screen goes black), you're dead in the water and will need to rely on proper intel to know whats going on around you.
Wonderful you have an opnion, CCP disagrees though and as this is a science fiction game they can really do almost whatever the hell they want and say it works. You are also ignoring several interesting theories involving cloaking that would effectively make you invisble and intangible (and even more interesting there actually even is some possible science behind it)
I find all the crying about cloaks amusing, though I am betting people will really start crying if the rumors are try and the black ops battleships can jump other ships either to it or with it.
Go Go intel gathering
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Presidente Gallente
Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.06 11:28:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 06/10/2007 11:33:47 In 0.0 the cloak is my station.
I would see no problem if cloak devices go offline every X minutes and you need to re-activate them. Or on non recon-ships they just eat cap.
Whatever ... I don't see overall big serious problems with cloked afk'ers. Try to catch them when they active in a belt. If they SS and cloak. So what. Next one ...
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
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