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Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 06:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:This would totally break the PVE nightmare. It already tears through L4 missions with ease. Plenty of other ships do too, but they have combat uses outside L4 missions as well. I could concede a little on my proposed changes to the Nightmare, as those are lasers and have great range, but the Nightmare does badly need a buff -- L4 missions or not.
this ships are not supposed to be balanced for PVE, ships are supposed(ly) to be balanced for PVP |
Rhianna Ghost
Eagle Technologies Avateas Blessed
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 07:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
+1
I'd really like to fly one of those small spike b****s... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
415
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 16:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:This would totally break the PVE nightmare. It already tears through L4 missions with ease. Plenty of other ships do too, but they have combat uses outside L4 missions as well. I could concede a little on my proposed changes to the Nightmare, as those are lasers and have great range, but the Nightmare does badly need a buff -- L4 missions or not. this ships are not supposed to be balanced for PVE, ships are supposed(ly) to be balanced for PVP
To be the devil's advocate, that's not strictly true. Take Marauders, for instance. I don't know of any sane person who would use them in PvP.
Some might argue the Rattlesnake is also balanced more towards PvE, due to its low but reliable damage, and gargantuan tank. I think it might have PvP uses, but people prefer Drakes for low-damage-high-tank instead.
In general, though, that's true. It should be especially so for a pirate warship. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 21:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Having a nightmare myself... I must say, I think capless lasers would be OP'd.
The double laser damage bonus Sansha ships already have is in effect a 50% laser cap usage bonus - ie getting one of the sub-races skills for "free" (much like a vindi's +25% damage is the same as a 5% damage per level at lvl 5). It also reduces crystal consumption and fitting reqs (and is related to having utility highs.
I like the bonuses they have now. I just think their base stats need increasing: Reduce the capacitor and shield recharge time, lets say by 33% *maybe* +1 mid or low slot to each of the ships +5-10% to base speed/agility -give the Phantasm a 25 m3 drone bay, and the Nightmare a 90m3 drone bay (same as a hyperion)
As to the Rattlesnake: yea it needs fixing - its cheap because it blows. If most of your DPS comes from drones... then you might as well get a Gila. Also, a Domi out DPS's it be doing the same drone damage, and having more high weapon slots - that also have bonuses!
The Rattle is just an AFK brick. Change that +100% cruise and torp velocity bonus to a +100% cruise and torp damage bonus, and you got yourself a boat that is going to command the same prices as the other faction BSs.
So what if the torp range bonus lets you reach out to longer ranges with torps?
Its still just 4 torps, with no damage bonuses. With my change, I'd instead reach out with the equivalent of 8 cruise missiles, or be able to really put out DPS at close range. |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 21:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: To be the devil's advocate, that's not strictly true. Take Marauders, for instance. I don't know of any sane person who would use them in PvP..
thats because marauders were designed to be PVE boats and also pre nerfed. and refer to my last post Barbie D0ll wrote:ships are supposed(ly) to be balanced for PVP and CCP desgined marauders to be more or less one trick pony ships in the old days before carriers and supercapitals were flying everywhere. also, why take a marauder when you can take a carrier instead? carrier has more everything and also bonus points for being slightly less flying lossmail than a marauder as you can jump drive out if ships start pouring into the system.
or you can skip the marauder and carrier and go straight to supercarrier and titan |
Vindictate
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 06:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Actually I was going to bring up this issue and this thread seems perfect. The other day I decided to maybe look into AC as a weapon as laser boats not even being able to fire while caapped is a massive downer. So I made up a quick spreadsheet that Ill link tho its not perfect (disclaimer its slightly confusing) as it compares T2 pulse/autocannon. Truthfully tracking on lasers is balanced by range and maybe instachange/forever ammo is balanced by rainbow ammo, (and fitting can be ignored) but dps wise AC use no cap and can apply about 85-90% that lasers can. Even with the sole bonus of Amarr ships +10% cap they are pretty nasty. Not that amarr need a buff just Sansha ships (partially derived from them at least skill/application wise) suffer the same cap hell. This doesnt take into account ammo as that is another beast altogether. But Sansha do need a buff in some fashion. Let me know what you think too as long as its 30% constructive.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoS02Q3WgjsydDVCcnFnZGotY0RjcC1CaHA2Ri11a2c&hl=en_US#gid=0
As for the NM id like to see a dps increase and maybe dronebay bump too and since lasers put out em/thermal I think the OP had it about right 1500-1600 dps sounds alright to me (even with the lower tracking) haha who am i kidding i want 6 lows and 8 meds on it too....
The phantasm...... I dont even... The succubus should be brought on par with the slicer (scorch @20km) or given a brawler role maybe 7-8kehp also +1/bump/Signed |
Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 06:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jumping on the bandwagon, the Nightmare should be on par with mach/vindi and maybe more so considering its drawbacks. And phantasm can be outdone by the harby in almost any role for 1/3 the cost....so there is that. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 07:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Add a role bonus to Sansha ships: 100% to smartbomb range 100% to smartbomb damage (/Crazy idea that might just work) |
Viribus
Karan VIII Corp Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
20
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 12:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Averyia wrote:so... guristas are balanced?
I'm still wondering why a rattlesnake is closer to faction navy ships than other pirates ships in jita. Because Guristas ships don't get missile damage bonuses, and ships in general can only field a max of 5 drones. There's not much in the way of drone damage you can do to the Rattlesnake to make it have the damage of other pirate faction ships. However, outfitted with sentry drones and cruise missiles, the Rattlesnake can have a passive tank of somewhere in the vicinity of 1400 DPS and a buffer of 150k EHP without even using any faction/deadspace mods. Rattlesnake as is is not viable in PvP because of the limitations of drones, but it is the ultimate PvE ship. In that way, it is balanced. So far as its price, I have no idea why it is so low at how popular it is. Maybe people run a lot of Gurista missions? Edit: Also yes, Guristas are balanced. The Worm is an amazingly tanky frigate (more than most AFs) with amazing speed/agility, plus a bit of missile DPS. Its DPS is not spectacular, but it can take on a lot of things because of the versatility that the combination of missiles/speed/drones give it. It's like a super-Ishkur with a bit less damage. The Gila is a cruiser with a mega-Drake tank, faster and more agile than a Drake, and fielding a ton more damage because it can use a whole flight of heavy drones. It also has a bigger drone bay than a Dominix does. Completely worth the price. However, this is not a thread about Guristas, but about Sansha ships. Get your own thread to talk about the 'Snake, and I might even reply to it!
Heh, tank isn't everything. Despite all that, marauders can fit a harder tank, and yet these days no one flies marauders or rattlesnakes. Because T3s and machariels blitz faster and unless you're some kind of idiot that aggros the whole room, tank is never an issue.
Plus a 5% resist bonus per level is hardly special when two other T1 battleships have the same bonus.
The problems with the Gurista ships is that:
- They essentially have split weapon systems, which always suck (and one of which doesn't even have a damage bonus) - They're shield-tanked drone boats, which makes it inviable to use sentries.
On top of that, if you use heavies (so you don't cannibalize your tank with omnis and sentry damage augmentors) you have to get really close to whatever you're killing, which makes the missile range bonus even more worthless.
Basically no matter how you fit a gurista ship you're sacrificing or penalizing some bonus or attribute of the ship. They're not a focused design, which is why no one in their right mind uses them, which is why the rattlesnake is currently 400m less than the other pirate BS. |
Ager Agemo
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
36
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 15:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
I m confused.... a nightmare with tachyons is a ******* EVIL NASTY beast. it can output well above 800 DPS to basically anything on the 10 to 100kms without any problems, got a lot of tracking with those huge turrets. it can be tanked to ALMOST navy scorpion levels and PVP wise, if you get tackled by one, you become roasted.
oh and the pulse version is even nastier D: its like a lazors vindicator.
that and sansha frigates i might be confused... but dont those frigates output like 500 dps? |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
430
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 16:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:I m confused.... a nightmare with tachyons is a ******* EVIL NASTY beast. it can output well above 800 DPS to basically anything on the 10 to 100kms without any problems, got a lot of tracking with those huge turrets. it can be tanked to ALMOST navy scorpion levels and PVP wise, if you get tackled by one, you become roasted.
oh and the pulse version is even nastier D: its like a lazors vindicator.
that and sansha frigates i might be confused... but dont those frigates output like 500 dps?
Heh, no. The Succubus does 200-300 dps tops, about what an AF does. However, it has 6-7k EHP, while AFs all have 10k+, and it's slower than most AFs as well. It should be at least equally powerful to the Retribution, if not more.
The Phantasm does about 550 DPS, and has ~40k ehp. The Imperial Navy Omen does the same damage but has 10-20k more EHP. It is however a bit slower. That doesn't matter very much though as the Harbinger outdoes both of them for a fraction of either of their price.
The Tach Nightmare is good, but hardly useful for anything other than missioning due to sniping being a poor strategy because of other mechanics. Up close, it is also good, but it is utterly outdone by the Abaddon in everything but tracking at 1/10 the price.
The problem is not specifically with the ships, but rather with the fact that far cheaper ships outclass the Sansha ships across the board. This is because Sansha ships don't have a "super special ability" like the Angels' speed/agility, the Blood Raider webs/neuts, etc. They are simply brawling ships. The trouble is that their strength at brawling is not proper for their price, and doesn't make up for their lack of "super special ability". Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 10:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:.
The Tach Nightmare is good, but hardly useful for anything other than missioning due to sniping being a poor strategy because of other mechanics. Up close, it is also good, but it is utterly outdone by the Abaddon in everything but tracking at 1/10 the price.
The problem is not specifically with the ships, but rather with the fact that far cheaper ships outclass the Sansha ships across the board. This is because Sansha ships don't have a "super special ability" like the Angels' speed/agility, the Blood Raider webs/neuts, etc. They are simply brawling ships. The trouble is that their strength at brawling is not proper for their price, and doesn't make up for their lack of "super special ability".
Its also worth noting that a Abaddon also has 4 useful mids even after fitting tank (and normally some gank w Heatsinks) to help with tracking etc. The Nightmare simply doesn't have the ability to brawl like that even tho they both have the laser/neut problem but the abaddon is mostly passive tank. The Nightmare needs a real niche and the bonuses it has now arent cutting it. It needs a DPS boost or a Tank boost or another role besides brawling to be viable other than a glorified incursion T3/ AMARR lvl 4 runner. |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 10:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
the nightmare can always use more DPS or something else, as of "it will go though lvl 4s faster" i did a side by side comparison with a mach with both at max skills and implants on worlds collide with angels and sansha assuming we are skipping the gate guards, the mach clears the first room while the nightmare is only halfway done. proceeds to clear the second room and make out with the mission objective by the time the nightmare is done with the first room. the nightmare could be given capless lasers and 1.5k dps with lasers alone and it still wouldn't be used in PVP. however, if the nightmare was given capless lasers, 1.5k dps with lasers, and a 15% tracking bonus, then it would have a use in PVP assuming you don't mess with anything else. with the capless lasers the person could stick a MWD in the mid and be able to have a better chance of surviving.
but if the role of the nightmare was to dish out DPS without changing anything else to make up for its lack of everything else, i could see 2k dps with lasers alone as all the other pirate battleships are better at everything else, i may add more to this later |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 19:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'm getting the sense most agree that sansha ships lack a unique trait, they are just "brawlers" that aren't really all that good at brawling.
Rather than come up with new mechanics, just fix them so they do excel at "brawling".
Bump the base stats across the board: 5% more speed and agility 5% more HP and capacitor 5% better cap regen and shield regen 5% better PG and CPU (though this really isn't that limiting) 5% smaller sig radius 5% higher scan res, sensor strength, and targeting range.
All combined, it would make a big difference. |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 07:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
bump |
Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 04:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:I'm getting the sense most agree that sansha ships lack a unique trait, they are just "brawlers" that aren't really all that good at brawling.
Rather than come up with new mechanics, just fix them so they do excel at "brawling".
Bump the base stats across the board: 5% more speed and agility 5% more HP and capacitor 5% better cap regen and shield regen 5% better PG and CPU (though this really isn't that limiting) 5% smaller sig radius 5% higher scan res, sensor strength, and targeting range.
All combined, it would make a big difference. I think this isnt the way to go about it, all faction bs have a 7/5 layout and a 7 mid is pretty useful so adding mids/low would unbalance some things. In truth lasers need rebalanced to some degree (yes the harby and zealot are ok but most amarr ships bonuses cater to getting the lasers to work instead of being a real bonus) and we have capless lasers...Autocannons (but AC vs lasers isnt on this post). I know almost all amarr ships are just dps boats, and neuts wreck them when youre in an abaddon and you get neuted you are literally a golden brick, so lets keep that vulnerability so its not an i win button. I think the Nightmare should have:
.114 inertia Modifier +5% cap/ cap recharge +1 turret slot same # of high slots Remove 5% damage bonus per level of Caldari Battleship Add bonus: "Caldari Battleship: 5% bonus to shield resistance per level Change special ability to: "Special Ability: 250% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage"
What do you guys think?
|
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 08:40:00 -
[77] - Quote
bump |
Ager Agemo
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
39
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 18:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vae Abeo wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:I'm getting the sense most agree that sansha ships lack a unique trait, they are just "brawlers" that aren't really all that good at brawling.
Rather than come up with new mechanics, just fix them so they do excel at "brawling".
Bump the base stats across the board: 5% more speed and agility 5% more HP and capacitor 5% better cap regen and shield regen 5% better PG and CPU (though this really isn't that limiting) 5% smaller sig radius 5% higher scan res, sensor strength, and targeting range.
All combined, it would make a big difference. I think this isnt the way to go about it, all faction bs have a 7/5 layout and a 7 mid is pretty useful so adding mids/low would unbalance some things. In truth lasers need rebalanced to some degree (yes the harby and zealot are ok but most amarr ships bonuses cater to getting the lasers to work instead of being a real bonus) and we have capless lasers...Autocannons (but AC vs lasers isnt on this post). I know almost all amarr ships are just dps boats, and neuts wreck them when youre in an abaddon and you get neuted you are literally a golden brick, so lets keep that vulnerability so its not an i win button. I think the Nightmare should have: .114 inertia Modifier +5% cap/ cap recharge +1 Turret Remove 5% damage bonus per level of Caldari Battleship Add bonus: "Caldari Battleship: 5% bonus to shield resistance per level Change special ability to: "Special Ability: 250% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage" What do you guys think?
without the resistance bonus it would lack tank badly, if you are all for brawling you need just 2 thinks, RAW DPS and RAW tank, taking away the tank and adding DPS wont do it.
i actually like the idea of making it get more DPS, with a damage bonus, tho currently i feel lasers just like hybrids have a problem, that is, they are stuck to a single type of damage, but projectiles outdo both DPS, tracking, Range wise and can can choose damage type.
so... buff sansha ships laser damage by adding all the ships a fixed role bonus of 20% ROF. (NO damage because then tachyons would be like artillery.) and it balances itself a bit out due to more cap use.
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Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 03:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
[/quote]
without the resistance bonus it would lack tank badly, if you are all for brawling you need just 2 thinks, RAW DPS and RAW tank, taking away the tank and adding DPS wont do it.
i actually like the idea of making it get more DPS, with a damage bonus, tho currently i feel lasers just like hybrids have a problem, that is, they are stuck to a single type of damage, but projectiles outdo both DPS, tracking, Range wise and can can choose damage type.
so... buff sansha ships laser damage by adding all the ships a fixed role bonus of 20% ROF. (NO damage because then tachyons would be like artillery.) and it balances itself a bit out due to more cap use. [/quote]
Have you flown a NM? i ask because 20% rof would murder cap also it doesnt come w a 5% resistance bonus i think it should have one since when you get neuted you wont be up the creek without a paddle also with 250% damage as a special ability and one turret hardpoint you would have (5*2.5) =12.5 effective turrets i think current its at 10 effective turrets and by not messing with the powergrid tachs wont be overpowered since i doubt 5 will fit
And yes this is more of a shameless bump than anything |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 07:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vae Abeo wrote:I think this isnt the way to go about it, all faction bs have a 7/5 layout and a 7 mid is pretty useful so adding mids/low would unbalance some things. In truth lasers need rebalanced to some degree (yes the harby and zealot are ok but most amarr ships bonuses cater to getting the lasers to work instead of being a real bonus) and we have capless lasers...Autocannons (but AC vs lasers isnt on this post). I know almost all amarr ships are just dps boats, and neuts wreck them when youre in an abaddon and you get neuted you are literally a golden brick, so lets keep that vulnerability so its not an i win button. I think the Nightmare should have:
.114 inertia Modifier +5% cap/ cap recharge +1 Turret Remove 5% damage bonus per level of Caldari Battleship Add bonus: "Caldari Battleship: 5% bonus to shield resistance per level Change special ability to: "Special Ability: 250% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage"
What do you guys think? Well, it would certainly be a buff. Instead of at lvl 5 having your turret damage be 4 turrets* 2x damage multiplier *1.25 = 4 *2.5x damage = 10 turret equivalent, You change it to 5* 2.5 = 12.5 turret equivalent, This amounts to a 25% increase in DPS, and "frees" a bonus I like the idea of a resist bonus, and to change the role bonues damage multiplier from a 2x multiplier to a 2.5x multiplier and then drop the 5% per level sounds like a good idea to me. A 5% resist per level would also be much appreciated. A 5th turret may be OP'd, and it would murder your cap. A cap / cap recharge buff would be very useful, and I still want to see a speed and agility buff, but these aren't so important.
So, for all sansha ships: drop the 5% laser damage per level, add a 5% shield resist per level. Change the role bonus to be a 2.5x multiplier instead of a 2x multiplier. Buff their cap.
Then I think we'd be on our way to a good ship.
|
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
19
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 13:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
There is a typo on the first page, stating 250% damage bonus on the NM. Actually it would be a 150% damage bonus to get 12.5 effective turrets out of it with 5 turrets.
The 100% cap bonus is actually overkill, it is a laser ship after all. Even the 75% cap bonus would be extreme powerful with the limited number of turrets, even if I think that a buffed capacitor would be more useful overall, since it also gives a better protection against neuting, less problems in combination with a MWD and more cap reserves for burst tanking during deagressing for example.
At least the succubus and phantasm would still need a shield HP buff and some more speed. |
Dodona
EntroPraetorian Academy EntroPraetorian Aegis
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 04:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
You know what's blatantly obvious but I've never heard mentioned?
Give them a bonus to cap boosters. No ship has a bonus to cap boosters and this makes none sense.
Toss in a little fitting and damage output love and you have a tooth-achingly sweet ship. |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
144
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 06:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
Dodona wrote:You know what's blatantly obvious but I've never heard mentioned?
Give them a bonus to cap boosters. No ship has a bonus to cap boosters and this makes none sense.
Toss in a little fitting and damage output love and you have a tooth-achingly sweet ship.
LEt's see... native shield resist bonus ala Drake, cap booster bonus, ability to fit X-large shield booster... I like this.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 04:05:00 -
[84] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Vae Abeo wrote:I think this isnt the way to go about it, all faction bs have a 7/5 layout and a 7 mid is pretty useful so adding mids/low would unbalance some things. In truth lasers need rebalanced to some degree (yes the harby and zealot are ok but most amarr ships bonuses cater to getting the lasers to work instead of being a real bonus) and we have capless lasers...Autocannons (but AC vs lasers isnt on this post). I know almost all amarr ships are just dps boats, and neuts wreck them when youre in an abaddon and you get neuted you are literally a golden brick, so lets keep that vulnerability so its not an i win button. I think the Nightmare should have:
.114 inertia Modifier +5% cap/ cap recharge +1 Turret Remove 5% damage bonus per level of Caldari Battleship Add bonus: "Caldari Battleship: 5% bonus to shield resistance per level Change special ability to: "Special Ability: 250% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage"
What do you guys think? Well, it would certainly be a buff. Instead of at lvl 5 having your turret damage be 4 turrets* 2x damage multiplier *1.25 = 4 *2.5x damage = 10 turret equivalent, You change it to 5* 2.5 = 12.5 turret equivalent, This amounts to a 25% increase in DPS, and "frees" a bonus I like the idea of a resist bonus, and to change the role bonues damage multiplier from a 2x multiplier to a 2.5x multiplier and then drop the 5% per level sounds like a good idea to me. A 5% resist per level would also be much appreciated. A 5th turret may be OP'd, and it would murder your cap. A cap / cap recharge buff would be very useful, and I still want to see a speed and agility buff, but these aren't so important. So, for all sansha ships: drop the 5% laser damage per level, add a 5% shield resist per level. Change the role bonus to be a 2.5x multiplier instead of a 2x multiplier. Buff their cap. Then I think we'd be on our way to a good ship. I absolutely support this. ^ exactly the changes id want. |
Vindictate
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 22:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
bump |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 07:13:00 -
[86] - Quote
I fully support this thread and dedicate funds from my totally legal medicine and chemical processing business to the improvement of Sansha ships. How may I drug you with drugs? |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
202
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 10:18:00 -
[87] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The problem is not specifically with the ships, but rather with the fact that far cheaper ships outclass the Sansha ships across the board. This is because Sansha ships don't have a "super special ability" like the Angels' speed/agility, the Blood Raider webs/neuts, etc. They are simply brawling ships. The trouble is that their strength at brawling is not proper for their price, and doesn't make up for their lack of "super special ability".
Good comment. With the logical conclusion that any criticism of the Sansha ships can immediately also be applied to the Gurista ones.
I'm in two minds here. On one side is the opinion that "not being as good as Angels is not a justification for a buff". The other side being "without any special ability or bonus, what's the point of Sansha or Guristas?" |
Brynhilda
Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis
81
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 16:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
The problem is not specifically with the ships, but rather with the fact that far cheaper ships outclass the Sansha ships across the board. This is because Sansha ships don't have a "super special ability" like the Angels' speed/agility, the Blood Raider webs/neuts, etc. They are simply brawling ships. The trouble is that their strength at brawling is not proper for their price, and doesn't make up for their lack of "super special ability".
Good comment. With the logical conclusion that any criticism of the Sansha ships can immediately also be applied to the Gurista ones. I'm in two minds here. On one side is the opinion that "not being as good as Angels is not a justification for a buff". The other side being "without any special ability or bonus, what's the point of Sansha or Guristas?"
Well, I believe the Gila may soon replace the Drake when the Drake nerf happens. The Gila also already has a Dominix Drone bay and a very powerful shield tank. I actually like it where it is at the moment.
Rattlesnake, however, could use a change, I believe. It's half the price of all the other pirate battleships including the Nightmare. How may I drug you with drugs? |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
202
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 21:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
The Gila is a decent ship, but it won't replace the Drake even if the Drake is nerfed, rather than the absurd buff that the CSM proposed. The Drake is characterised by missiles, cheapness and tankiness - the Gila has only one of those in meaningful levels.
The Worm is, well, pointless. And the Rattlesnake isn't much better, and I say that as a semi-regular Rattler pilot (it has a combination of good active tank, respectable DPS, utility highs and ability to counter ECM boats that's very useful for small-scale WH fights, but really that's about it). It's supposed to be the tankiest pirate BS, but realistically, the most survivable pirate BS is the Machariel. |
Alandira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2012.02.29 11:27:00 -
[90] - Quote
I comment on the Phantasm as it is currently the only i fly out of the three mentioned.
The changes suggested to the Phantasm read great, it would still keep the specialisation of other ships viable (like the ashimu) but reward those that set foot into a shiny cruiser with an improved dps and capacitor management, which to be honest is really needed in case of the Phantasm.
Thumbs up for more Phantasm love! |
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