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Halada
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.30 20:27:00 -
[1]
What's up with that idea Chronotis? The Rorqual is a mining support ship, it compresses ore. It is not suitable for transporting minerals deep into 0.0 ... unless you significantly boost the Rorqual's cargo capacity, I really don't see why nerfing module compression is necessary?
How is nerfing it going to make the game better for anyone, except **** us industrialists off?
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.30 20:40:00 -
[2]
Tbh chrono, halada does have a point the Rorq's compression capability doesn't provide an adequate alternative for the module compression, theres no legit reason to nerf the existing system, provides no benefit to the game just a nerf for the sake of nerfing really.
Eve is acclaimed for its sandbox style of play, users are allowed to do what they want as long as its legit this this tact and many other changes recently seem to be designed to constrain how users play to a defined set of methods. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Halada
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.30 23:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Halada on 30/08/2007 23:54:57 Ahh Toxic, pumpkin ♥ ... I always liked you!
Click on my sig to read it ! |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.08.31 08:52:00 -
[4]
I'll throw in a potential game design POV....
Everyone's up in arms over the (still?) planned to 'nerf' mineral compression because of the logistic effort involved in moving, particularly low ends, to 0.0.
Thus the ongoing 'exploitation' (in it's proper usage) of the fact that items with High ME can be built and subsequently re-processed with little expense of loss of the minerals. Moreover, some items reprocess to such high amounts of minerals for their size that this has become extremely obvious.
Now - first, one can argue that reprocessing to achieve 100% recycling is an unlikely reality - even for a very advanced culture - but that's not the main point.
If reprocessing was limited to, say, 80% as we have seen proposed (and, if implemented then I hope it's at least globally applied), then there is the possibility that it might stop people using it so much.
If that happened, then....
There would quite probably need to be more mining done out in 0.0.
This would mean more targets for the roving gangs; more possibility of raids on logistic tails of alliances by their enemies; it being harder for alliances to hold such large tracts of space, needing to defend smaller areas with more assets; and generally more effort to sustain 0.0 operations.
My point is that it could be considered a 'good thing' if 0.0 logistics became harder. Low Sec living could then be an easier half-way house, thus making low sec more popular.
The only thing that needs to happen is that minerals be allowed to seek their own value.
Perhaps 0.0 logistics should be harder than it is now - which might open up 0.0 to more people?
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Tandori Tanaka
Tanaka Stuff and Supplies
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Posted - 2007.08.31 09:14:00 -
[5]
The mineral compression nerf is fine BUT CCP needs to give us atleast one of the following enhancements in exchange ...
- Increase Rorqual stats. Bigger cargohold, higher compression rate of compressed ores, increase jumpdrive range to 6,5ly to be inline with carriers OR release mods/rigs to boost jumpdrive range.
- Invents a new form of mining in 0.0/lowsec which is illegal in Highsec (something about blastmining has already been mentioned) OR seed a new type of asteroid which is only available in 0.0/lowsec and yields 100-200% more lowend minerals compared to the normal roids.
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Sikozu Prioris
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.08.31 09:55:00 -
[6]
Yea I think that would be an awesome idea, have like a rare type of veld only only in 0.0 which gives much more minerals. Wouldnt make it more profitable than high ends oc
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Doctor Fruitloop
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:27:00 -
[7]
Possible suggestion. Capital strip miner module. Requires crystals to support its 5 miniute cycle time and requires the Roq to be in it's "industrial reconfiguration mode" to work at full power. Crystals only released for Veld, scordite and Pyroxes (or any other common as muck roid) to make it around 2/3 the value of mining crokite in a hulk in 0.0. On the other hand I hate this nerf to compression /me scraps the plan to mass produce battleships in 0.0
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.08.31 10:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marcus Tedric I'll throw in a potential game design POV....
Everyone's up in arms over the (still?) planned to 'nerf' mineral compression because of the logistic effort involved in moving, particularly low ends, to 0.0.
Thus the ongoing 'exploitation' (in it's proper usage) of the fact that items with High ME can be built and subsequently re-processed with little expense of loss of the minerals. Moreover, some items reprocess to such high amounts of minerals for their size that this has become extremely obvious.
Now - first, one can argue that reprocessing to achieve 100% recycling is an unlikely reality - even for a very advanced culture - but that's not the main point.
If reprocessing was limited to, say, 80% as we have seen proposed (and, if implemented then I hope it's at least globally applied), then there is the possibility that it might stop people using it so much.
If that happened, then....
There would quite probably need to be more mining done out in 0.0.
This would mean more targets for the roving gangs; more possibility of raids on logistic tails of alliances by their enemies; it being harder for alliances to hold such large tracts of space, needing to defend smaller areas with more assets; and generally more effort to sustain 0.0 operations.
My point is that it could be considered a 'good thing' if 0.0 logistics became harder. Low Sec living could then be an easier half-way house, thus making low sec more popular.
The only thing that needs to happen is that minerals be allowed to seek their own value.
Perhaps 0.0 logistics should be harder than it is now - which might open up 0.0 to more people?
No, that wouldn't result in anyone mining low ends in 0.0, because low ends would still be worth less than the high ends. All it would mean is that the logistics *****es are going to be pulling the equivalent of 12 hour shifts to move things instead of 8, the cost of everything will be higher, and they'll probably lose money in the process.
If it's not ABC, it's for suckers. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD |
Scordaf
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.31 12:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tandori Tanaka OR seed a new type of asteroid which is only available in 0.0/lowsec and yields 100-200% more lowend minerals compared to the normal roids.
Great idea.
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bliskner
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Posted - 2007.08.31 12:30:00 -
[10]
i dont like this nerf either, and a rorqual does not replace mineral compression in modules as mentioned before
hmm, special low end roids for 0.0? depends how this is getting realized if so
i don't want to mine trit in 0.0 to sell it in empire for profit thought
if this 20% extra refining waste hits us the mods/ships in 0.0 will cost 20% more, aww noes, 0.0 market is crap already
don't make this game more work as it is already, consider that if we use the modules to compress low ends, somebody still needs to run the production jobs in empire with some skills + they need to get moved down and so on
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Halada
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.01 04:27:00 -
[11]
bump for a constructive thread!
Click on my sig to read it ! |
Selena Dimeling
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.01 07:03:00 -
[12]
Honestly, it looks like a collective nerf to Blob-Fleet Warfare, the increasing overabundance of capitalships, and the independance of 0.0 'markets.'
20% nerf to refines of the high compression modules for low ends, means either 20% less ships made/time unit or 20% more man-hours spend moving the rocks.
It has the potential to sink the Empire Veld market, though. Since, as I understand it, a lot of it gets exported to Null-sec to build those bloody Hive Fleets... (Assuming they don't absolutely refuse to mine Pyro/Scor...) ____________________ Skill Showroom |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.01 11:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Halada except **** us industrialists off?
I don't quite get why industrialist would be ****ed up; you can still use the compression hauling all you want. If the affect of the 'nerf' is same for everyone, the builders will just add the increased costs on customers.
It might slightly annoy 0.0 PVPers, since now they will have a bit more expensive stuff.
-Lasse for removing all 'easy mode / give me ISK' buttons from Eve
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Halada
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.01 13:43:00 -
[14]
Do you seriously believe they will accept a price raise based on our explanation that mineral compression was nerfed to 80%, therefore our prices our raised 20% to compensate? Do nor be so nanve... 90% of the players don't even know mineral compression exist. They just care about getting their ship...
Losing 20% of compression means nobody will do it anymore... it's way bigger than the profit margin we make on most items, even capital ships. As we've said, the Rorqual compresses ore in deep space, it does not replace the need for a deep space hauler at all. Even the Rorqual, configured with 2x pimped Impel and 1x Prorator in its ship maintenance Bay will haul 112k m3... that's nowhere near enough.
Give us 500k m3 at least and I'll shut up.
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.01 14:44:00 -
[15]
further more the to the point it won't just simply be a direct 20% shift the corresponding price increase is likely to be greater due to the greater ratio of low end mins in expensive products, the costs will get passed onto the consumer as always, 20% is a large figure for average pvp setups. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.09.01 15:00:00 -
[16]
Well. I don't think mineral compression module nerf is the end of the world. People will adabt. I'm not talking about those 400:1 modules but about regular items like passive targeters.
There is no good module for pyerite compression after nerfing anything above 5:1 compression ratio, but say Revelations dreadnaught can still move around 200 mil units of compressed trit without losses in one jump using kinetic heavy assault missiles. And it's not like you need to compress high end minerals.
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Balcura
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Posted - 2007.09.01 19:20:00 -
[17]
Pyrite does have a mineral compression item you just have to look for it.
But I agree there does need to be some type of mineral compression in the game, if that comes in the 50:1 trit compression BPO or some other type of thing that is introduced that would be nice. I also like the idea of a capital mining ship (2nd in the line from ore) that would fit capital mining lasers have a 500km3 ore bay and operate off a jump system similar to the new ore ship.
Wouldn't make mining trit or pyrite any more profitable (still have to get that crap to empire) but the 0.0 markets would be better at supporting themselves.
ONE other thing that needs to be looked at is the roid size/respawn rates. If there were ships out there that could pull 100km3 trit from a single cycle there needs to be roids large enough to handle 40-60 cycles from a single laser (2hr mining op) otherwise it would be a huge waste of time.
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gordon861
Minmatar Head Insurance Services
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Posted - 2007.09.02 16:36:00 -
[18]
We already have something we could use for mineral compression and moving .... let us manufacture drone alloys and also make them take up less volume for hauling.
You could either make them using factory slots or add a module to a POS to convert them.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donĘt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe. |
bliskner
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Posted - 2007.09.04 11:17:00 -
[19]
actualy i think the reason behind nerfing mineral compression is that ccp does not want to see 5000 supercapitals within eve in the next year
basically why do we need mineral compression?, its a simple answer, cause mining high end ore's in 0.0 is more lucrative then mining veldspar down there.
considered to the higher living costs in 0.0 (pos maintenance, outpost building, and of course war) those players down there would need more isk per month/week to spend in ships and equip.
so why shall we mine veldspar down there (5m per hour per covetor i think) instead of bistot (about 20-25m per hour per covetor (depends realy on the zydrine price thought))?????
i think i've heard something about mining "fighters" for the rorqual in revelations 3 i would like this idea if those fighters get some bonuses to low end ore mining
ccp give us industrials more love pls and dont make this game to become work
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