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Garric Vor'g
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.09.03 14:32:00 -
[1]
Anyone re-tried them lately?
They worth it yet?
CRAZED & INSANE
Originally by: Eva things that get said get translated by my brain into "German guy can see enemy. English guy has a point. Warp to American guy.
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etgfrogs
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Posted - 2007.09.03 17:42:00 -
[2]
yea, tried one recently, first room had 12 bs, 14 cruisers, 4 cruise missle bateries and 2 energy neutralizer turrets. got poped in a dominix in 20 seconds then we brought in a logistic ship. it can be worth it since there is alot of bs that are worth some 750k each, but make sure you bring a logistic ship or take a capital ship in there.
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:23:00 -
[3]
Originally by: etgfrogs yea, tried one recently, first room had 12 bs, 14 cruisers, 4 cruise missle bateries and 2 energy neutralizer turrets. got poped in a dominix in 20 seconds then we brought in a logistic ship. it can be worth it since there is alot of bs that are worth some 750k each, but make sure you bring a logistic ship or take a capital ship in there.
How high is offered reward? ==============================================
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.09.05 15:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: etgfrogs yea, tried one recently, first room had 12 bs, 14 cruisers, 4 cruise missle bateries and 2 energy neutralizer turrets. got poped in a dominix in 20 seconds then we brought in a logistic ship. it can be worth it since there is alot of bs that are worth some 750k each, but make sure you bring a logistic ship or take a capital ship in there.
Did you say they have bounty's? I was under the impression that lv5 had no bounties on rats.
Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.05 16:39:00 -
[5]
Done a couple of them yesterday. In comparison, lvl4 missions are 3 to 4 times better considering the isk/hour per pilot ratio.
ISK and LP rewards are slightly above that of the best paying lvl4's. Loot is poor, tags are poor, salvage is comparable to a lvl4. Faction hits are large.
Do them for fun, not for rewards. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari DB Ops Wing
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Posted - 2007.09.06 00:53:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 06/09/2007 00:53:55 Can I do them for the faction hit? :) Burn gallente pigdogs!!
Actually, if anyone is interested in having a wingman along in the Lonetrek Region, mail me please :) I fly a T2-fit torp raven.
(I'd have to double check, but I might also have an alt who can fly a logistics cruiser)
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Ur235
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.06 10:46:00 -
[7]
I just use my Thanatos for lvl 5 missions, briging 1 single battleship is pointless as itll get popped almost straight away.
And I can do them with no fear in my carrier which is always fun
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.09.06 11:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ur235 I just use my Thanatos for lvl 5 missions, briging 1 single battleship is pointless as itll get popped almost straight away.
And I can do them with no fear in my carrier which is always fun
you can do them with either 2 bs with remote reps/shield trans or 1 bs and 1 logistics. no need to risk your carrier/dreads...
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Vermis
Prox XII
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Posted - 2007.09.06 16:08:00 -
[9]
Are they worth it isk wise? Nope.
I don't know if it's my agent or a result of this "auto balancing" system they have for the agents, but my experience is that the harder Level 5's give out LESS LP than the easier ones. Oh, and what's up with the bonus times? 1hr 2mins, say what?
Just as an example, lastnight me and a friend did a level 5 (called Siebestor something) that was 2 rooms, with the last room having a Battle Station you have to destroy. It paid out 3450 LP, I think around 1.2mil isk with bonus, and had a bonus expiration timer of 1hr 2mins. Some missions I've gotten from this agent have been 9500 LP, so I know my social skills aren't totally bad.
We took in Typhoon, Maelstrom, and a Scimitar. The Maelstrom tanked with shield/cap support from the other two. This was probably the bare minimum you could take in there and finish it without having to warp out (neut towers that spawn from triggers can really ruin your day).
It took us about an hour and 45mins to clear it so we lost out on the bonus. The loot was a mix of tags and normal loot with nothing cool dropping. If we would have done *any* other activity (even mining) we would have made more isk than doing the level 5.
Was it fun and interesting todo? Yes, but it was like riding a roller coaster. Once your done you walk out of the park with just memories and nothing else to show for it. |
Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.06 17:46:00 -
[10]
How often do npcs switch targets or it only happends with new spawns? And I can't log now, can anyone confirm a lvl 5 Brutor Tribe agent in Auga? Having mixed info on him from diferent agent locator tools |
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Vermis
Prox XII
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Posted - 2007.09.06 19:13:00 -
[11]
I don't believe the NPC's switch targets. There are a lot of things that trigger new spawns however, and you end up with split aggro across your gang when it happens more often than not. Usually, you can clean up the aggro without much trouble, unless you keep triggering spawns :p |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.07 11:46:00 -
[12]
doing lvl 5's for reward is definately not worth it, CCP needs to compleatly revisit them and make sure there is alot more reward from lvl 5's
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Fenella
Caldari Dangermouse Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.07 12:34:00 -
[13]
I think its becoming increasingly obvious that the 'auto balancing' framework simply isnt functioning for level 5's.
If there isn't a critical mass of missions being completed the low rewards put every one off, its a vicious circle resulting is stagnation.
CCP need to reassess where they started the reward level (at the bottom of the scale) and manually adjust it so that its 2-3 times more attractive in reward terms than the top level 4's, then let it auto balance from there.
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Contralto
Gallente Department Of Health and Social Security
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Posted - 2007.09.07 13:40:00 -
[14]
Not to pour cold water on the "balancing" theorists but I havn't noticed any changes to any rewards I get for lvl 4 missions, if they were dynamic they would surely change slightly day by day or for sure as weeks go by.
Instead I get exactly the same Lp's I have always got right down to the last point.
I think the balancing is another 'feature" that didnt make it into a patch or doesnt work.
Anyone else stopped to count the Lp's they get now compared to a year ago?
I never look at the isk rewards so cant comment on whether they are "balancing"
I also read that missions would vary in difficulty dynamically according to how fast they are run on an average over the whole of Eve. Strange then that sites such as Broadpark can list the exact triggers and there spawns. Never varies for me.
I am refering to lvl 4 missions here, but seems to me that no "balancing" is occuring on the V's either.
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Fenella
Caldari Dangermouse Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.07 13:52:00 -
[15]
Loyalty points were brought in at a later date and don't seem to vary at all over time.
I think its purely the straight ISK rewards and the bonus time periods that vary over time depending on various metrics, though what these are and how it changes I have no idea.
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Contralto
Gallente Department Of Health and Social Security
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Posted - 2007.09.07 14:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Contralto on 07/09/2007 14:55:29 How does that relate to a lvl 5 mission in low sec giving 3,500 lp's or even 8,000? I get 8,300 for a lvl 4 in 0.5. I used to get 12k in a 0.3 system. if they are fixed then something is far wrong
I never really consider the mission rewards as they are a small part of the whole. with salvage, named loot, and bounties over 50 mill is possible compared to maybe 5 mill for the reward. (lvl 4's)
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Espoir
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Posted - 2007.09.07 19:07:00 -
[17]
I was on a lvl5 database website some weeks ago
Does anyone have the URL??
thx
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Vermis
Prox XII
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Posted - 2007.09.07 22:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Contralto Not to pour cold water on the "balancing" theorists but I havn't noticed any changes to any rewards I get for lvl 4 missions, if they were dynamic they would surely change slightly day by day or for sure as weeks go by.
Instead I get exactly the same Lp's I have always got right down to the last point.
You wouldn't notice any changes on a well established agent, unless another patch wipes their history tables again.
This is all empirical as I have no numbers to back it up. My guess is the system balances the rewards based on only a couple of data points, with the primary one being the length of time it takes to turn in the mission. So, over time more of those data points are collected and the statistical median becomes pretty well established for that mission in how long it should take you to complete. I would guess that the top and bottom 10% are removed from the calculations to reduce any skew from people that take in large gangs and finish the missions in record time, or people that just take forever to complete the mission. I would guess there is a base LP/Hour set for each mission and it adjusts the reward based on the historical time it took to complete the mission, with all of the bonus modifiers applied afterward (skills, standing, quality, system security).
It super simple terms, if we want you to make a base of 1000LP/hour and it takes 80% of the people 30mins to complete the mission, we'll give out a base of 500LP.
So, why does this seem like a problem right now? First, the system starts with no data points, so everything is calculated as if it takes 0mins to complete the mission. Second, there is probably far fewer people that are running Level 5 missions (people avoiding low-sec, people unable to get big enough gangs, etc), which results in less people completing them.
Which kinda explains why I've been finding that missions that are easier and/or have no acceleration gate have higher LP, because people are able to complete them or solo them in a capital. The missions that are noticably harder and/or have multiple rooms always seem to be giving out only 2000-3000LP and have really low bonus timers (1hr?!), which is probably because hardly anyone has completed them.
So, in theory as more people complete the missions the LP and other rewards will slowly scale up. However, that certainly seems to penalize the people that are doing them now.
In either case, unless the "base LP/Hour" rate is a lot higher for level 5's, they will never be more rewarding than just doing level 4's. So there is a couple of level 5's you can solo or solo in a capital, but most of them require a gang so you will always be sharing LP.
Again, this is all empirical and I could be just totally wrong, but from what I've observed this seems to be how it works. Heck, maybe it's only my agent that is broken :) |
Espoir
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Posted - 2007.09.08 08:26:00 -
[19]
Ah found the Site myself - it's www.evemissions.com Would be great if you support the databse.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.08 08:53:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 08/09/2007 08:53:10
Originally by: Contralto Not to pour cold water on the "balancing" theorists but I havn't noticed any changes to any rewards I get for lvl 4 missions, if they were dynamic they would surely change slightly day by day or for sure as weeks go by.
Instead I get exactly the same Lp's I have always got right down to the last point.
I am not sure about the current situation (have not looked at LP a lot lately) but in the past the balancing DID happen. The top end missions never budge, yes. That is because there is a LP cap, and they all are probably well beyond that cap.
But smaller mission did change their LP rewards, and probably still do.
For example, Recon 1. When it was introduced, the rewards were totally ****ty. Then people started doing it fighting the NPCs. Which took long. Quite long, so it became a high LP reward mission. Eventually people learned to blitz it, and the LP reward dropped again. I think right now it only gives slightly above average LP, not something near or at the cap. It might be worth it to watch the LP reward of the assault, I only recently learned that it was blitzable, noone else I know knew that and does now. If this scenario is true for the whole of EVE, you might notice the LP reward for it going down too.
Quote: I also read that missions would vary in difficulty dynamically according to how fast they are run on an average over the whole of Eve. Strange then that sites such as Broadpark can list the exact triggers and there spawns. Never varies for me.
That is definitely just a myth. I remember reading that once too, but really only that once and I already knew it was untrue from personal experience.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
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Contralto
Gallente Department Of Health and Social Security
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Posted - 2007.09.08 11:48:00 -
[21]
Aah thanks for the clarification, I only notice the lp's on the top end missions, so your explanation fits.
on an unrelated note do you happen to know what the formula is for calculating the Lp's awarded from system sec? I get 8300 for a mission from a q18 in a 0.5 system and 12k+ from a Q20 in a 0.3 system. I realise the connections and social skills modify the Quality, but what does sec status do to the equation?
I heard that 16k lp's is possible in a 0.1 system Q20 agent and with full skills.
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Kakita Jalaan
Viriette Commerce and Holding
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Posted - 2007.09.08 22:51:00 -
[22]
Rewards have gone up(!) to lvl 4 levels, difficulty is still much higher than lvl 4s. Could the reward cap please be raised on these? I do them for fun, but getting some rewards would also be nice (yes, I loot and salvage everything and it's still crap compared to lvl 4s). ______________ Join the Family |
HeadWar
Minmatar North Star Networks
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Posted - 2007.09.09 23:12:00 -
[23]
The official lvl 5 thread, in the Game Development Forum:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=525835
As you can tell, the devs are really concerned about the lvl 5 reward levels...
--- Не поговорите русского. F1, F2, F3... |
Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:57:00 -
[24]
just did 1 on sisi. 12908 lp and almost 4m reward + bonus. some angel battlestation pumping out loads of dps.
used a carrier, worked like a charm.
couldnt see anything to use codebreaker on.
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:00:00 -
[25]
I won't do lvl 5 before they are moved to high sec, too much grief in EVE already.
If that means I will never do lvl 5, that's okay
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari DB Ops Wing
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 12/09/2007 07:21:14 So,, anyone run a lvl 5 Storyline yet?
*pictures "Deliver 250000m3 of Kernite 40 jumps"*
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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2007.09.12 11:58:00 -
[27]
I am very curious about how good the lev 5 storylines are, and whether they have rewards to compensate for the other l5 missions difficulty.
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Boralot
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Posted - 2007.09.13 02:36:00 -
[28]
There isn't any Level 5 storyline mission at this time.
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Nyx STeeLGamers
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Posted - 2007.09.13 18:23:00 -
[29]
havent tried them, but im just about to, it is possible to use dreads/carriers in them if there isnt an encounter :D.. btw is it possible to make them solo?
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