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met worst
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been reading the latest minutes and came across these 2 particular phrases.
1) The CSM strongly argued that the EVE community would greatly prefer data without context to no data at all.
Publish the bot data CCP
+1 CSM. The issue of bots in Eve has been and continues to be an issue for many, in some cases perhaps a percieved problem. We simply have no idea how many are out there or how many get banned.
Having said that it could prove to be a Pandora's Box for CCP as players may complain there's not enough being detected (if numbers are published). Of course, this may mean either there are not as many as "we" think or that CCP is "not doing enough".
GL CCP. GJ CSM.
2) CCP Screegs major concern when dealing with security-related issues is the ease of play for the average user.
Screegs rules out "Capthca" type methods
Stuck on a fence here - I personally wouldn't mind the intrusion if I felt that it was achieving something but I am also aware that any method that requires user input can also be worked around by bot makers eventually.
For mine, it's our game, it's our problem and COMBINED with CCP technical data and behaviourial analysis - we can beat the bots. Some ideas perhaps.
i) Publishing bots banned and the region they were in might spook many bots to make them give up and/or give players a focus for some "ratting PvP".
ii) A rewards system? Detected bots reported by players earns a medal/Aurum etc. Make it competitive and players will compete to get the most successful reports. Obviously negative (and perhaps false positives) are penalised.
iii) A more proactive and public approach from larger alliances (taking a leading role) to combat bots rather than the "it's not my problem" creed might go a long way too. When the larger allys turn a blind eye, it sets a precedent to newer players that it's either accepted and/or tolerated. It should be neither.
Leave your whine/whinge/troll/ discussion >>> [............. here .............] <<< |
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
188
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree we simply do not know how many bots there are.
Stats on accounts banned or a total of assets reclaimed may also encourage people nto to bot....right now the feeling is I could bot and not get cought....the guys in xyz system are doing it and no consiquences.
Need more-adecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
Barakkus
1495
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
They should change to EULA and TOS so they can publish botter names/corps when they ban them. Leave a giant list so people stop whining.
I would quit as would 70% of the population if captchas were put in the client.
http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
291
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
met worst wrote:Screegs rules out "Capthca" type methods
I was actually more disappointed in him for sticking to email unique identification of players. Banning an email address does exactly nothing since the same person can create an unlimited number of public domain addresses (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc). It would be more effective to do things like ban credit card numbers, or Paypal accounts -- information CCP already has (unless I have a gross misunderstanding of how online transaction systems work). |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
233
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
/in before someone starts wildly claiming that CCP employees are involved directly with RMT and botting.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Mallak Azaria
Dominus Nex Angelus
55
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Posted - 2012.01.17 21:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:They should change to EULA and TOS so they can publish botter names/corps when they ban them. Leave a giant list so people stop whining.
I would quit as would 70% of the population if captchas were put in the client.
Blizzard used to publish banned account names with Diablo 2, then they went soft. It can be a good deterrent though, especially in the case of a suspension.
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Nex apparatu5
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
147
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Posted - 2012.01.17 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Came expecting wild accusations of the CSM botting and CCP being complicit in the coverup.
Left disappointed |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
292
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Posted - 2012.01.17 22:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Came expecting wild accusations of the CSM botting and CCP being complicit in the coverup.
Left disappointed
It's only the first page, there's still time. |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
353
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Posted - 2012.01.17 22:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
To improve reports, people should be able to issue a challenge by means of a virtual glove-slap. The players will then agree on a game to compete in, with the loser being banished from the internet for three (3) years. We need people to owe up to their responsibility, folks. |
Kha'Vorn
Fruidian Logic
Visionaries of Iron
68
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Posted - 2012.01.18 00:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Killstealing wrote:To improve reports, people should be able to issue a challenge by means of a virtual glove-slap. The players will then agree on a game to compete in, with the loser being banished from the internet for three (3) years. We need people to owe up to their responsibility, folks.
Banished from the internet? WTF? |
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
877
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Posted - 2012.01.18 04:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
awww, still disappointed that you will never be the Warren Buffet of eve?
sorry sonny, but I doubt you will even rise to the level of Chinese Buffet in this game.
just quit now
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
615
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Posted - 2012.01.18 05:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I was actually more disappointed in him for sticking to email unique identification of players. Banning an email address does exactly nothing since the same person can create an unlimited number of public domain addresses (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc). It would be more effective to do things like ban credit card numbers, or Paypal accounts -- information CCP already has (unless I have a gross misunderstanding of how online transaction systems work).
Players who bot can just use throw-away accounts paid with GTCs / PLEX. No credit card, no billing information, etc. All you have to go on is an email address.
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supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
33
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Posted - 2012.01.18 06:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I guess noone ever had to download a butt ton of stuff off like any fire hosting website.
You guys do know they have programs to read those PITA captcha's right? |
Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society
ESS Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.01.18 06:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Does it really matter if they give stats or names? Who is to say they are real stats or names in the first place. CCP wouldn't be the first company to lie about figures simply to make themselves look proactive.
And a captcha system would be really annoying as hell. In reality it would be less then a few months before programmers found a easy way to deal with it at the expense of everyone who plays EVE to type in captcha all the time. If you think this is a good idea you must like bending over and applying lube frequently. This is not a solution, just an annoyance to legitimate players and a temPorary setback for botters. |
Liam Mirren
182
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Posted - 2012.01.18 06:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Captcha would only be a temporary setback to botters till they programmed in Captcha readers, after that it would just be a major annoyance to legitimate users. So I can understand their stance of not using that nonsense.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. |
Prince Kobol
159
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Posted - 2012.01.18 07:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Captcha would only be a temporary setback to botters till they programmed in Captcha readers, after that it would just be a major annoyance to legitimate users. So I can understand their stance of not using that nonsense.
Would take ooohh about 5 minutes to program around Catccha.
As somebody else has already said, the issue with Eve witch does not exist any other MMO is the ability to create untraceable full accounts.
This is a major boon for RMT sellers and most likely one of the biggest reasons why its impossible to stop them.
The fact the CCP Screegs has ruled out the use of authentication tokens to me is utter madness.
Also before anybody starts talking about privacy issues, unless you can honestly say you have never used your private information for any other MMO, Steam, X-box live, PSN, ever purchased anything via the internet, have a account with Paypal, ebay etc then you can use that as an issue here.
This statement was like a open message to everybody botter and RMT seller inviting them to continue |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
2023
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Posted - 2012.01.18 08:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP should at least spank them silly and obvious spam bots in various trade hubs...
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Renturu
Tribal Spirit
Tribal Unity Alliance
133
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Posted - 2012.01.18 09:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've been posting this in the past. If CCP having the resources they have can create massive AI for Incursions and Sleepers that respond to player actions. Why not have randoms show up in mine fields, start convos and ask random questions. If no reply in 5 minutes (or so)... Condordokken'd. What would be so wrong with that?
I think it would also cure the AFK mining crap that so many cry about B/C their precious hulk got ganked while they were out getting burritos and Mt. Dew at 7-11
If EvE WiS is Space Barbie, then I'm built like a Ken Doll:
Nothin' but 14 inches of T'aint;
Smooth, from front to butt!!! |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 09:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Renturu wrote:I've been posting this in the past. If CCP having the resources they have can create massive AI for Incursions and Sleepers that respond to player actions. Why not have randoms show up in mine fields, start convos and ask random questions. If no reply in 5 minutes (or so)... Condordokken'd. What would be so wrong with that?
so basically you would have to speak to every passing t*sser come to smack talk just in case they are CCP?
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Renturu
Tribal Spirit
Tribal Unity Alliance
133
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Posted - 2012.01.18 10:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Melangell wrote:Renturu wrote:I've been posting this in the past. If CCP having the resources they have can create massive AI for Incursions and Sleepers that respond to player actions. Why not have randoms show up in mine fields, start convos and ask random questions. If no reply in 5 minutes (or so)... Condordokken'd. What would be so wrong with that?
so basically you would have to speak to every passing t*sser come to smack talk just in case they are CCP?
Obviously they would be concord, or local faction (Labeled just in case you want to ignore them). But they are random, not always there, in your business.
Besides, If we as players have the ability to ID botters (in the all too not human precise manner in which they perform tasks) CCP should be able to notice this and AI to respond appropriately. If your not botting, and making random human actions, it doesn't flag.
Also, Wow!! I didn't think CCP would edit "Tosser." Interesting that they are catching jargon.
If EvE WiS is Space Barbie, then I'm built like a Ken Doll:
Nothin' but 14 inches of T'aint;
Smooth, from front to butt!!! |
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Barakkus
1499
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Posted - 2012.01.18 12:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I was actually more disappointed in him for sticking to email unique identification of players. Banning an email address does exactly nothing since the same person can create an unlimited number of public domain addresses (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc). It would be more effective to do things like ban credit card numbers, or Paypal accounts -- information CCP already has (unless I have a gross misunderstanding of how online transaction systems work).
Players who bot can just use throw-away accounts paid with GTCs / PLEX. No credit card, no billing information, etc. All you have to go on is an email address.
A lot of the time they have a regular account too, and if CCP figures out which account that is, they ban it as well. Just read up on the forums that provide bots, there are many tears to be had because people get every account they own banned 
http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
Prince Kobol
161
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Posted - 2012.01.18 12:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Scrapyard Bob wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I was actually more disappointed in him for sticking to email unique identification of players. Banning an email address does exactly nothing since the same person can create an unlimited number of public domain addresses (Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc). It would be more effective to do things like ban credit card numbers, or Paypal accounts -- information CCP already has (unless I have a gross misunderstanding of how online transaction systems work).
Players who bot can just use throw-away accounts paid with GTCs / PLEX. No credit card, no billing information, etc. All you have to go on is an email address. A lot of the time they have a regular account too, and if CCP figures out which account that is, they ban it as well. Just read up on the forums that provide bots, there are many tears to be had because people get every account they own banned
That is because they can trace the accounts via IP Address, however most botters use a VM Hosting Company to run their bots so you can not longer match accounts via IP Address.
You could argue that by needing a authentication token to log in then this no longer becomes an issue, unless of course you create yourself a persona with a different mailing address to that of your main  |
Rasz Lin
42
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Posted - 2012.01.18 17:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:A lot of the time they have a regular account too, and if CCP figures out which account that is, they ban it as well. Just read up on the forums that provide bots, there are many tears to be had because people get every account they own banned
I dont think you follow the news, CCP DOES NOT BAN anymore, they give you warnings.
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ElQuirko
The Demonfuge Malevolent Fan Club
318
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Posted - 2012.01.18 17:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's probably because CSM are botting and CCP are complicit.
*Steps out quickly* |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
301
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:It's probably because CSM are botting and CCP are complicit.
*Steps out quickly*
Nobody doubts that anymore, stop preaching to the choir.  |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 18:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:ElQuirko wrote:It's probably because CSM are botting and CCP are complicit.
*Steps out quickly* Nobody doubts that anymore, stop preaching to the choir.
although I'm pretty sure you two are trolling - why does anyone think this makes sense?
CCP employ a security person who is then instructed to fail to find bots etc. etc. - so you have the cost of someones salary and all the pretence around that. Everyone thinks that Bots are a massive problem and are always going on about them. They would be have to be careful not to break any of the bots when they make UI changes etc. etc.
OR
if CCP really were wanting to give out free isk to people - all it would need is a cron job and a database update!
If you are going to have a conspiracy theory - at least have one that vaguely makes sense
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OldMan Gana
The Flaming Sideburn's
Art of War Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
A more accurate metric would be the number of bots reported and the number of botters banned.
That would tell us very quickly the scale of the problem and the scale of investment made by CCP in investigating them.
" I spent most of my money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
-George Best-a |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
302
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Melangell wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:ElQuirko wrote:It's probably because CSM are botting and CCP are complicit.
*Steps out quickly* Nobody doubts that anymore, stop preaching to the choir. although I'm pretty sure you two are trolling - why does anyone think this makes sense?
Tinfoil hats are focusing alien Jovian mind-beams and randomizing select areas of their thinking, warping the definition of "sense". |
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