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Pillowtalk
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 22:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since returning to Eve about a month and a half ago I have had two retrievers ganked by goons while ice mining, and also have the upcoming hulkageddon to look forward to. Seeing as how I'm a high sec miner it is a very bad thing. I am not the type that knows anything about Eve politics, and I have no desire to join a corporation in a huge alliance. However, considering Eve's complexity I was thinking lately about a way to allow the little guys like myself to perhaps have some influence over some of the universe wide events in eve.
What lead me to what I'm about to suggest is the thought that if only Eve had a way to allow you to place restrictions on who bought your goods, the community as a whole could make life very difficult for public enemies. Of course with the avilablity of alts this would never be possible. Additionally I was trying to think of a way to use the Goons own disdain for mining against them.
My idea is to start a thread where known members of corporations or alliances who are active enemies of Goons and actively attacking them could post with their willingness to participate in the following. When a high sec miner like myself goes to sell, it would be nice if members of corps/alliance that are enemies of the goons had "want to buy" mineral contracts up on the market with reduced pay for minerals. They could perhaps label them "anti-goon minerals" or something similar.
Personally I probably bring in 100mil tritanium/20-30mil mexallon/30-50mil pyerite every month. I would happily sell my trit for 3.00, my mex for 40.00 and my pyerite for 3.50 IF I knew that they were going to be actively used against the goons.
I assume that once a member of the said corp or alliance posted in the thread that if they weren't truly enemies of the goons that it would come out quickly and someone would point it out. Once these people have posted and their names have been publicly verified, it would give high sec miners a place to go to look up what names are valid to sell to for contracts such as those.
So my questions are the following....
1) I have no idea how reliant large alliances are on minerals from high sec. If they really don't buy from high sec, then I guess this whole idea is pointless.
2) Are high sec minerals used much in capital ships/alliance warfare?
3) Do you think enough high sec miners would be willing to participate so that it actually had an effect? With hulkageddon coming up it would be nice to have some way to contribute to the cause if you're just a lil guy that ganked.
4) Do you think any of the enemies of the goons would be interested in something like this?
Just wanted to throw the idea out there. |
Xayder
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 22:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cool story
(i only read the titel) |
Beckie DeLey
DeLey Enterprises
2
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Posted - 2012.01.17 23:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pillowtalk wrote: 3) Do you think enough high sec miners would be willing to participate so that it actually had an effect? With hulkageddon coming up it would
Most players don't care. Everyone jsut sells to the highest bidder and would continiue to do so if there was any way to exclude certain parties. Even if there was a sizable amount of people participating, there's always bots. Those certainly don't care. AND EVEN if those would care, i would just come along, buy your **** and then sell it to whoever. Because traders certainly don't care. AND EVEN if they would, there's always alts.
So yeah, no merit to your idea at all. It's The Legendary Extraordinary Me |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
424
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 00:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pillowtalk wrote:Since returning to Eve about a month and a half ago I have had two retrievers ganked by goons while ice mining, and also have the upcoming hulkageddon to look forward to. So you were harvesting ice in Gallente space, which the Goons openly advertised they were interdicting, and it was covered by many EVE news sites (I think it may have even made CCP's news and the CQ crawler), and yet you still consider your losses as being "ganked" and not foolhardy?
In contrast, I chose to not go anywhere near Gallente space in anything they'd consider shooting at just for chuckles.
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." |
Brock Nelson
288
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 01:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
OP is another victim in a long list of victims butthurt by Goons
Invest in buckets, I suspect that Goonswarm is buying them in bulk I don't always like to modify my sell order but when I do, I like to spin my mouse wheel |
Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 01:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
I can't really say that I've put much thought into where my minerals go, what they're used to build and who they end up screwing over. I don't really care so long as they go out and ISK comes in. Why supply only one side of the war when you can supply both and profit? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
25
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Posted - 2012.01.18 03:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pillowtalk wrote:
Personally I probably bring in 100mil tritanium/20-30mil mexallon/30-50mil pyerite every month. I would happily sell my trit for 3.00, my mex for 40.00 and my pyerite for 3.50 IF I knew that they were going to be actively used against the goons.
The rank and file goon was buying the battlecruisers on the market during the interdiction, not the ore. I was buying your monthly output DAILY and selling it as brutixes at a handy profit. ie what you need is for ship builders to agree to sell stuff to non goons, which is crazy talk, as goons are our best customers.
|
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
This would have the exact same effect as security status on pirates. None. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
91
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 11:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
While we can debate the effect of it against the Goons specifically, I think it's a rather cool idea and would enhance the indirect PVP nature of EVE. Only a relatively small number of situations and goods it would be constructive to use with, though.
Why is this not posted in F&I? |
Evo6
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 12:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
In my opinion, the harsh truth is that profit is the strongest motivation for the majority of players. I agree with the previous posters saying that your minerals would be bought by those purporting to be anti-Goon only to be sold on for whatever profit could be had.
I don't think that an individual or even a large collective can gain or maintain any semblance of control over a commodity so readily available to just about every player in the universe who chooses to fit a mining laser. I have witnessed and been directly part of T2 anti-cartel efforts in the past (where we collectively controlled a significant portion of the supply) only to see best efforts thwarted by opportunists (usually corp mates and "trusted" acquaintances) snapping up low price items and immediately reselling them for big profits. Irritating at the time but completely understandable and something I'd probably do myself if I was on the other side of the fence if I'm being honest.
Besides, whatever your feelings towards Goons and other large alliances, they do a lot for the economy in terms of driving up demand for player produced items by blowing stuff up and being blown up on a daily basis. I'm pretty agnostic towards goons myself but I do think it's quite cool that through a planned and concerted effort, they seem to have had a noticeable effect on the player controlled market.
tldr? An admirable idea but can't see how it could be made to work practically.
Evo6 |
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Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 12:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mining is broken in High Sec, if not Goons, someone else will suicide gank your weak mining barge. Salvage/loot lvl4 missions and reprocessing later gives you more profit. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Cascade Imminent
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Minerals can be mined in nul with minimal effort. Plus, you have ores that produce higher end minerals not available in hi sec.
As for trit, well... Have you ever encountered a pirate harvester or hauler in a belt? Out in a .5 system, the frigate versions carry 25k trit. In nul... The indy size ones drop 11 million trit easily.
So even if people did not sell to goon, they would be fine. |
Mathis Athins
Paragon. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.19 19:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote: As for trit, well... Have you ever encountered a pirate harvester or hauler in a belt? Out in a .5 system, the frigate versions carry 25k trit. In nul... The indy size ones drop 11 million trit easily.
11m seems a bit low, last spawn I had 4 ships 2 with 7m pyrite apiece, 1 with 2.5m mex, and one with 29m trit. I didn't even bother with the trit. |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 03:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
This would be a great idea if it wasn't EVE.
Alt accounts, and their ease of disposal pretty much kill this concept from the start. Only way to get around that is to put in restrictions on who you interact with that are so extreme you wouldn't gain the interest needed to keep it going. Profit favors the prepared |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
631
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 06:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, a blacklist would definitely not work. But a whitelist might. Such as being able to set things up like you can with POCOs with different "discounts" for different standings.
You could put items up on the market for X per unit to neutral 3rd parties. If it's a personal sell/buy order, then personal standings (or corp/alliance) are used, if it's a corporate buy order then corp or alliance standings could be used.
For a buy order, you could specify that you'll pay 5% more to corp/alliance, 3% more to +5s / +10s. And sure, -3% and -5% for negative standings folks (who could just use a neutral alt and get the "neutral" price). For a sell order, you could specify that +5/+10 pay X percent less per item and corp/alliance members pay Y percent less.
(In fact, since -5/-10 limits could be so easily worked around, you could probably just not bother and only allow setting of percent discount / bonus for +5, +10, corp and alliance.)
A whitelist discount/bonus would be useful to certain corps / alliances - but it would probably crush the market server. It would be nicer then the current "have to use corporate contracts, which expire every 2 weeks" system. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 13:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have a better idea, pay me 500m and ill tell them to stop. |
Domukuan II
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 06:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Your argument is generally invalid as the minerals you say you bring in a month barely scratches the surface of what a null-sec mining fleet brings in per hour. We don't rely on ore from high sec and if you start selling cheaper to non-goons it'll only hurt your bottom line. Not ours. |
Batelle
HOMELE55 FORECLOSURE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 18:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pillowtalk wrote:I have no desire to join a corporation in a huge alliance.
Why not? You'd be less likely to get killed mining. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Domukuan II wrote:Your argument is generally invalid as the minerals you say you bring in a month barely scratches the surface of what a null-sec mining fleet brings in per hour. And I think (for now anyway) an hour of mining drones brings more.
And good ratting might be above that. And of course incursions.
|
ganks theman
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
goons and IT = stuff blowing up = isk for me selling of ship parts and ships i love goons cool guys yes kill me to but one ship vs selling lot of stuff ganks theman =-á gangster man :P |
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:I can't really say that I've put much thought into where my minerals go, what they're used to build and who they end up screwing over. I don't really care so long as they go out and ISK comes in. Why supply only one side of the war when you can supply both and profit?
You are absolutely right as long as you are neutral in the war.
But if you are a victim of the war and are supplying arms to your persecutor that seems a little off,
Someone breaks into your house and you yell, "wait stop! If you are going to kill me, here use my gun."
I get the OP's point I just don't see any way to actually make it work. You would need 80% of the traders in Jita on board to make any lasting effect. And even then market alts would be a very easy way around it.
And as others have said. Goons buy complete ships, they don't make much stuff themselves. There are far better ways for combat focused players to get rich than indy activity. NULL sec ratting, exploration, and wormhole raids, just to name a few. |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pillowtalk wrote:Since returning to Eve about a month and a half ago I have had two retrievers ganked by goons while ice mining, and also have the upcoming hulkageddon to look forward to. Seeing as how I'm a high sec miner it is a very bad thing. I am not the type that knows anything about Eve politics, and I have no desire to join a corporation in a huge alliance. However, considering Eve's complexity I was thinking lately about a way to allow the little guys like myself to perhaps have some influence over some of the universe wide events in eve.
What lead me to what I'm about to suggest is the thought that if only Eve had a way to allow you to place restrictions on who bought your goods, the community as a whole could make life very difficult for public enemies. Of course with the avilablity of alts this would never be possible. Additionally I was trying to think of a way to use the Goons own disdain for mining against them.
My idea is to start a thread where known members of corporations or alliances who are active enemies of Goons and actively attacking them could post with their willingness to participate in the following. When a high sec miner like myself goes to sell, it would be nice if members of corps/alliance that are enemies of the goons had "want to buy" mineral contracts up on the market with reduced pay for minerals. They could perhaps label them "anti-goon minerals" or something similar.
Personally I probably bring in 100mil tritanium/20-30mil mexallon/30-50mil pyerite every month. I would happily sell my trit for 3.00, my mex for 40.00 and my pyerite for 3.50 IF I knew that they were going to be actively used against the goons.
I assume that once a member of the said corp or alliance posted in the thread that if they weren't truly enemies of the goons that it would come out quickly and someone would point it out. Once these people have posted and their names have been publicly verified, it would give high sec miners a place to go to look up what names are valid to sell to for contracts such as those.
So my questions are the following....
1) I have no idea how reliant large alliances are on minerals from high sec. If they really don't buy from high sec, then I guess this whole idea is pointless.
2) Are high sec minerals used much in capital ships/alliance warfare?
3) Do you think enough high sec miners would be willing to participate so that it actually had an effect? With hulkageddon coming up it would be nice to have some way to contribute to the cause if you're just a lil guy that ganked.
4) Do you think any of the enemies of the goons would be interested in something like this?
Just wanted to throw the idea out there.
I will buy all your underpriced minerals, and I once popped a goon cyno Kestrel, that makes me a legit anti goon. Contract to me wherever in empire.
|
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Firstly, join a renter corp, mine in 0.0
It'll be safer as you'll get intel some jumps out and have time to run and hide.
That or don't mine and do something that makes you more isk instead, like... erm... anything.
Failing all that, your idea won't work because of alts and apathy |
Levija Saplina
Supremacy Inc. Not Found.
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hello,
If you want to send me a mail, I will direct you to someone who will buy all your minerals at under market vale. Not only will this hurt the goons, but it will also get you some nice isk.
And I can assure you this will also help you protect your hulk from suicide ganking.
Also please do let me know which system you will mine in, I will send a fleet to protect you. |
Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:What lead me to what I'm about to suggest is the thought that if only Eve had a way to allow you to place restrictions on who bought your goods, the community as a whole could make life very difficult for public enemies. Of course with the avilablity of alts this would never be possible. Additionally I was trying to think of a way to use the Goons own disdain for mining against them.
You could simply stop selling anything at all.
But realistically, even if everyone did that, or even if everyone could boycott corps or alliances, it would not matter. Hisec mining - and production - and invention - and T2 production - is mostly irrelevant to those not living in hisec all the time.
A lot of miners who don't leave hisec don't seem to grasp this concept. People don't disdain mining, they disdain people who only mine, produce, and sell in hisec and then complain about gankers or not making enough money. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 07:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:And as others have said. Goons buy complete ships, they don't make much stuff themselves. There are far better ways for combat focused players to get rich than indy activity. NULL sec ratting, exploration, and wormhole raids, just to name a few. As people have noticed, that isn't exactly completely true, in that there are industrial characters. They're just inefficient. They are alts though, as it needs a bit of specialization.
It's like the whole mining thing. Yes, we all have amazing awesome 100-man mining ops. But a bunch of people have dormant mining alts (from before, when they were efficient) and of course characters don't get dusty on these things. If I had a spare account lying around I might train up at least Retriever, but the drone region changes are far away enough no one would run out to buy 10 hulks in preparation.
Similar with making ships, though you'd have to gauge the whole mineral cost (and importing minerals) vs importing a whole hull etc. Right now I think the isk CONCORD prints for us when we kill rats is better on the time/effort : isk ratio.
Ratting Drakes forever!
Ehn Roh wrote:A lot of miners who don't leave hisec don't seem to grasp this concept. People don't disdain mining, they disdain people who only mine, produce, and sell in hisec and then complain about gankers or not making enough money. You understand this pretty well.
This means you're a secret goon, alt etc etc .... |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
The best protection against giefers and wannabies is -> being 0sec dweller... and if ure renting space - means noone expects your corp to field titans and you can fight in sov warfare for lolz and not obligations...
If u mine in quiet blue system youll have all info about approaching danger and probably fleet to react and stop it. And you can hop into a pvp ship and try to give them hard time as well... dont try stupidities like selling underpriced minerals... it just wont work...
As of wars -> i hardly ever notice wars. I check once in 2 weeks prior to shopping in empire. Other then that there is little to no reason to go to hisec, actually... skillbooks once in a while and when i lose T2 ships which we cant produce in null, maybe
I. |
Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints Assassin Confederacy
25
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 04:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lets say everyone wanted to help you on this idea. (( not going to happen but for kicks ))
Goon sees your operation.
They make an alt indy corp that says it's anti goon.
They post more contracts for your ore then anyone else.
Massive amounts of your ore go to building goon ships that they continue to gank you with.
FAIL |
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