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Author	Topic
Vari Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.05 00:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Vari on 05/09/2007 00:45:34 Now with full-page history seaaaarch ... weighing in at 4.2MB ... covered in with extra butter ... Opera 9.50 Alpha 1 !!! Thoughts? Comments? and no it still doesn't make stealing bandwidth easy (Adblock). Sorry if you can't live without that = /
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 00:52:00 - [2] Edited by: Grez on 05/09/2007 00:57:27 I still prefer Firefox with Fasterfox installed :( Having said that, I just installed it, and my has it improved over past versions. Still a few bugs with PHP rendering (Griefwatch map for example), but overall, very nice. ---
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 01:02:00 - [3] I've not had much luck with Opera in the past, but I'll be sure to give this version a proper workout tomorrow! Although it has a lot to prove before it makes me get rid of my mega-customised Firefox ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.05 01:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Vari and no it still doesn't make stealing bandwidth easy (Adblock). Sorry if you can't live without that = / I consider the ability to remove corporate evangelism a critical part of any browser Its much better than it used to be, though its main weakness is still its lack of extensibility; computers are fast enough nowadays that people (like me) want customizability and features more than speed. For example, the Better Gmail extension increases load times for Gmail pages for at least a second or so due to its many many modifications, but I find it useful enough to justify that. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 01:17:00 - [5] Has real problems dealing with sites like www.darkspace.net ---
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.05 01:53:00 - [6] lets not forget the archanic websites that only demand IE to even be viewed - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 02:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari lets not forget the archanic websites that only demand IE to even be viewed You've always been able to trick Firefox and Opera to look like IE. ---
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.05 02:16:00 - [8] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/09/2007 02:16:23 Originally by: Grez Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari lets not forget the archanic websites that only demand IE to even be viewed You've always been able to trick Firefox and Opera to look like IE. That only works for sites with IF IE THEN WORK, IF NOT IE THEN DONT WORK constructions. If the site itself uses incredibly stupid IE-only extensions/hacks and such, it won't work on any other browser Of course, its not like anyone really cares about sites that stupid anyways. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Vari Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.05 04:40:00 - [9] Edited by: Vari on 05/09/2007 04:45:46 Well, props to all who gave it a try How bout some of you let me see their Firefox installs? I've never caught on with it =/
Fallen Elite Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.09.05 05:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Grez Has real problems dealing with sites like www.darkspace.net That version of Opera is an ALPHA. I just went to the site on the current full version and it was fine. There really is a reason you shouldn't compare an alpha to a final product. ------

Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Vari Edited by: Vari on 05/09/2007 04:45:46 Well, props to all who gave it a try How bout some of you let me see their Firefox installs? I've never caught on with it =/ My Firefox Addons ---
Tulanoe	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:52:00 - [12] Edited by: Tulanoe on 05/09/2007 13:56:55 Originally by: Fallen Elite Originally by: Grez Has real problems dealing with sites like www.darkspace.net I can't get 9.5's rendering to look any different from IE's or FF's. Originally by: Grez My Firefox Addons Thanks Though I must point out almost all of Fasterfox features (only prefetch isn't) have already been built into Opera as long as I've been using it. But I guess just installing an extension and setting it on super-duper-speed is easier than fiddling with some boxes in Preferences. You should run the nightly build, it's much better :)
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:55:00 - [13] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/09/2007 13:57:55 Originally by: Vari How bout some of you let me see their Firefox installs? I've never caught on with it =/ Here's a screenshot of my setup and a description of it that I wrote a while back for Lifehacker: Quote: I have nearly 50 extensions on my personal version of Firefox, plus a number of behind-the-scenes changes that I've made beyond the mere extensions. Yet I don't consider it bloated; through careful UI customizations and choice of extensions, I have created a Firefox full of a bunch of features that I could hardly imagine browsing the internet without. I'm not going to list every extension, of course--I'll stick to the ones that are the most important to me and that I think most people will find generally useful. I will divide these into four categories: usability, appearance/GUI, indicators, and behind-the-scenes. Usability extensions are those that directly affect my use of the browser: Adblock Plus: Obvious, but still very, very important. There are dozens of sites that I didn't even know had ads until I visited them with Internet Explorer. With the appropriate filter packs, Adblock Plus keeps the vast majority of the internet clean of ads without any maintenance. CustomizeGoogle: Adblock Plus for Google ads, plus a few other very nice features. The best of these is simple yet incredibly useful; it makes the images on Google Image Search click directly to the image, rather than to the page containing the image. DownThemAll: This extension is a godsend. I deal with overloaded download sites and tenuous wireless connections every day, and DtA's built-in download manager deals with them handily with its massive speed boost combined with resume functionality. Its bulk-download feature lets me grab hundreds of files at once off websites that seem to insist I download one at a time. ErrorZilla: Page not found? Coral cache it, google cache it, Archive.org it, Whois it, whatever! Extremely useful. I noticed that this extension used a low-quality JPG for the background image on its Page Not Found page, so I made my own custom version ("0.2.1") with a PNG background. Greasemonkey: Absolutely critical. I'm not going to bore you with the dozens of scripts I have for various sites, but Greasemonkey is truly awesome. Linkification: Unbelievably useful--converts links on pages to actual links when someone forgets their URL tags (or on imageboards without linking functionality). Never have to copy-paste a link into your address bar again! Resizable Textarea: Tiny but ingenious extension. Incredibly useful on forums with very small input boxes; just stretch them! Screengrab: Click, screenshot in PNG form of the entire webpage. Simple and useful. Tax Mix Plus: No Firefox installation is complete without this, and while already quite popular, it would be wrong not to mention this very important extension. I use the ReloadEvery, Undo Closed Tab, and the multiple tab rows features basically every day. As you can see, I have customized the options somewhat. Update Notifier: Does what it says; very useful for someone with loads of extensions like I have. URL Fixer: Automatically fixes mispellings in the address bar; don't worry about typing www.google.cmo ever again! Appearance/GUI extensions affect either the visual appearance of the browser or the GUI: Blue Ice: A clean, simple theme. CuteMenus - Crystal SVG: Every single button on all of the main browser menus has an icon for it, even those related to extensions. This makes the browser look a lot cleaner rather than having all sorts of options with icons and others without. Download Statusbar: Not everything is downloaded with DownThemAll, and when it isn't, I don't want the Firefox download manager in my face. So instead they end up down at the bottom, simple and small. Best of all, I set it so they disappear after 60 seconds; I never even have to clear the bar. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 05/09/2007 13:57:40 Quote: Menu Editor: Absolutely critical for anyone with loads of extensions. I use it to edit my menus to be in exactly the order I want and remove all the unnecessary extensionbloat from them, leaving them having only the buttons I need where I need them. This means I can also dump a bunch of Firefox features I don't use to clean up the interface. Organize Status Bar: Like the Menu Editor, but for the status bar, and similarly useful. Searchbar Autosizer: Does two very, very nice things. First, as its name might suggest, it autosizes the searchbar as you type in it. Neat, huh? Better yet, when you hit enter, it clears the search bar so I don't have to. WellRounded: See the rounded address and search bars? That's what it does. Indicator extensions mainly lie in the status bar and provide useful information. Unlike other extensions, since these use so little interface room, I have less of a standard for inclusion for these; they need only be occasionally useful: Cache Status: Shows how much memory and disk cache is used. Extended Statusbar: Adds Opera-like statusbar features. Header Spy: Shows me from the HTTP headers what software/platform the website is hosted on. SearchStatus: PageRank/Alexa information and such. ShowIP: Shows the IP of the current page. StatusBarEx: Adds some info such as memory usage, CPU usage, etc. Behind-the-scenes changes are where things get interesting; these are changes I've made to the browser that aren't obvious from any image: Customized Splash Screen (using Splash extension): I've made an image of the Firefox logo with transparent edges and shadow to use as my splash screen; it looks quite cool. Custom Firefox Build: I took tete009's latest build, patched out the icon in the executable to replace it with the regular Firefox icon rather than the unbranded Bon Echo icon, and replaced all non-binary files (JAR files, etc) in the program folder to rebrand the entire browser as the regular Firefox. In this way it is almost (except for the icon in the upper left of the program) indistinguishable from an official build, yet much faster. Massive Cache: My memory cache is limited to 100MB and the disk cache is limited to 500MB. The very large disk cache allows me to browse a large portion of the sites I use while away from internet access simply by having visited them within the past few weeks. NTFS Link: Putting a symbolic link (junction point) between the Documents and Settings extension folder and the Program Files extension folder means that I can easily copy-paste the Firefox directory onto another machine and keep all my extensions. UPX: Running upx --best --all-filters on firefox.exe drastically cuts the size of the program, reducing load time, since the NRV compression algorithm decompresses so fast on a modern computer that the time is barely measureable, while the time to load a 9MB file off the hard disk is anything but. Overall, these extensions make my internet browsing vastly easier without slowing me down; careful managing of the interface ensures that there are never too many buttons, so finding how to do what I want to do is always easy. This is why I can't consider another browser, at least today; without the extensibility of Firefox, any other alternative browser cannot serve my needs. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Yao Shiu	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:01:00 - [15] my firefox addons for your viewing pleasure. never tried opera, maybe one day... firefox serves my purposes fine as it is right now.
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:17:00 - [16] Edited by: Grez on 05/09/2007 14:20:39 Love that UPX trick DS. Never thought about it before. I use it on a few programs, but never thought about using it on Firefox... I still find FF a little bit of a memory ***** (anywhere between 30-75 mb at any-one time), shame it can't handle removal of tabs better. ---
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:43:00 - [17] Im in the firefox camp too. Its fast and the extensions are very sexy. You can find extensions for basically everything by now. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:59:00 - [18] I work a stone throw away from the Opera building....and everytime I see someone exists from there I'm tempted to shout 'firefox is better lol!' at them. Caldari and proud
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Death Kill I work a stone throw away from the Opera building....and everytime I see someone exists from there I'm tempted to shout 'firefox is better lol!' at them. Why would you lie like that? Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 21:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Death Kill I work a stone throw away from the Opera building....and everytime I see someone exists from there I'm tempted to shout 'firefox is better lol!' at them. Why would you lie like that? Yes, how dare you lie. Firefox is the best. ---

Tulanoe	Posted - 2007.09.05 22:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Grez Yes, how dare you lie. Firefox is the best. Whoah, whoah stop. DS and I have debated about this. Neither one is best, just different strokes for different folks. One's good for people who are speed-demons and like something small and still feature-packed and the other's good for people who want something infinitely customizable/extendable who just have to have those extra features. But there's one thing that's clear, while Opera's by far the innovator (MDI: 1994! page zoom, session saving: 1996! pop-up blocking 2000!), Firefox's by FAR the advertiser (Google's news archive).
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 22:53:00 - [22] Firefox is open source. This means 2 important things: 1: There are a lot - A LOT - of people with a vested interest in it, and are therefore likely to launch in to entertaining little campaigns and such. 2: It absorbs just about every good thing from everything available, and then adds stuff to it. Opera maybe the one who invented a lot of these handy features, but who cares when they're in Firefox now anyway? Firefox may not have had it in 1996 while Opera did, but they both have it in 2007 But in all honesty, I think Opera suits people who don't want to have to put in the effort to start using add ons. Because Firefox is pretty bog standard and uninteresting out of the box; it's like a blank slate core product, around which you build your perfect web browser out of extensions. Not fast enough? Extend it. Its missing a feature that another browser has? Extend it. Want it to be bright pink with 3D rainbow coloured animated tabs? Yeah baby! ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:20:00 - [23] bah explorer ftw
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Tulanoe Originally by: Grez Yes, how dare you lie. Firefox is the best. Whoah, whoah stop. DS and I have debated about this. Neither one is best, just different strokes for different folks. One's good for people who are speed-demons and like something small and still feature-packed and the other's good for people who want something infinitely customizable/extendable who just have to have those extra features. But there's one thing that's clear, while Opera's by far the innovator (MDI: 1994! page zoom, session saving: 1996! pop-up blocking 2000!), Firefox's by FAR the advertiser (Google's news archive). I was only making a funny at the other guys seriousness, but I guess you missed that... I use Avant, Opera and Firefox. Just depends what mood I'm in, and what I'm doing. ---
Vari Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:44:00 - [25] Edited by: Vari on 05/09/2007 23:46:07 Originally by: Patch86 Not fast enough? Extend it. Its missing a feature that another browser has? Extend it. Want it to be bright pink with 3D rainbow coloured animated tabs? Yeah baby! Need it on a cell phone? Extend it! But the truth is, extensions can only do so much, but they can't change the core product. Extensions can't add page zoom to Firefox 2. They can't make it's rendering engine actually faster or more efficient (and thus why it's limited to desktop PCs + powerful devices ATM). They can't give it a real MDI interface. They can't let pull off tabs from one window and put it on another. And you can't magically have all the features you have on your computer on other installs of Firefox. Whereas Opera's core product is good enough to give you these features. And feature-packed enough that when you use a mouse gesture on a install of Opera anywhere (updated after the year 2000), it will work. What has the Mozilla Foundation been doing with the tons of money they're making through search engine referrals (it has made Opera's revenues look like a drop in the bucket since 2005)? I don't know. But it isn't getting developers to make new things because they're still copying others.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Patch86 on 06/09/2007 00:04:15 Originally by: Vari Edited by: Vari on 05/09/2007 23:46:07 Originally by: Patch86 Not fast enough? Extend it. Its missing a feature that another browser has? Extend it. Want it to be bright pink with 3D rainbow coloured animated tabs? Yeah baby! Need it on a cell phone? Extend it! But the truth is, extensions can only do so much, but they can't change the core product. Extensions can't add page zoom to Firefox 2. They can't make it's rendering engine actually faster or more efficient (and thus why it's limited to desktop PCs + powerful devices ATM). They can't give it a real MDI interface. They can't let pull off tabs from one window and put it on another. And you can't magically have all the features you have on your computer on other installs of Firefox. Off the top of my head: Fasterfox extension changes the rendering methods to make it faster, theres an extension (such as FEBE) for packing your extensions into a single file for applying to other Firefox installs, Tab To Window extension lets you copy tabs over to new Firefox windows, and unfortunately I don't know what MDI is And Firefox being open source means theres a large number of altered builds- theres a Firefox build for cellphones, and theres Firefox builds with altered backend stuffs, and Firefox builds with half the features ripped out so that it can run on lightweight setups. EDIT: Still in early alpha if you're wondering, and not technically* Firefox, being so very altered. But when you're talking about software based on butchered code from other software, the lines as to what actually IS still something is very blurry... ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Lunaticdie04 Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2007.09.06 00:30:00 - [27] I use Opera for pron. That way I can save all my favourite sites and tabs and not worry about others seeing them. Unless I accidentally leave Opera on, go to the kitchen and return to find my female housemate going 'WTF is that?' :/ Stupid girls don't understand privacy. My sig got nerfed :( When will it all end?
Vari Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.06 01:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Vari on 06/09/2007 01:16:56 Originally by: Patch86 Off the top of my head: Fasterfox extension changes the rendering methods to make it faster It changes the max number of network connections and paint delay. It doesn't make the actual rendering faster. Extensions can only do so much. Originally by: Patch86 Tab To Window extension lets you copy tabs over to new Firefox windows Doesn't let you just click and drag tabs off a window like Opera's does. This is where the MDI interface comes in. Firefox's solutions are just workarounds (see: tiling, split-page views). Originally by: Patch86 I completely forgot a PageZoom extension, too! Kenji Inoue: "Disclaimer: this extension does not provide a high quality pagezoom like Opera or IE7 does (nor will another Firefox extension)" Workarounds. Extensions don't make Firefox the end all of browsers. If it did, I'd be using it. Originally by: Patch86 Still in early alpha if you're wondering, and not technically Firefox, being so very altered. But when you're talking about software based on butchered code from other software, the lines as to what actually IS still something is very blurry... I'll admit 'Firefox' running on a mobile device when I see a variant of the Gecko engine on one being able to surf the modern Internet (see Opera Mobile, Wii). Til then ...
Vari Carbide Industries R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.06 03:06:00 - [29] Edited by: Vari on 06/09/2007 03:16:38 Just as a base, here's what my copy br Shot at 2007-09-05" target="_blank">looks like. Yes, zoom is on. Yes it does work for any flash-based video player, YouTube or not. Extension-that :O I'm going to rebut DS's pile-o-extensions just to show how (I think, amazingly) powerful Opera is out-of-the-box. And yes, everything I will say can be done on a standard install unless otherwise noted. DownThemAll: Resume is standard into Opera. To download everything there's the links panel (search *.rar or something). There's no way to do single file concurrent downloads, I would rather like that for some servers. ErrorZilla: Only works if the page actually brings up a 404. If it says something like account suspended ala Slashdot, you'd still have to use bookmarklets. Bookmarkets are as easy to add on Firefox as on Opera. Greasemonkey: Built-in. See userscript.org. I'll admit though, Greasemonkey's site has scripts that are way more scripts and they tend to be more powerful. Linkification: Install a script. More than one userscript/greasemonkey script does the basic URL. Not as smart as this extension though. Resizable Textarea: Yes, it's a beautiful trick. It'll be added to Opera sometime later I bet you. Screengrab: I've never needed it, but I'm sure there are plenty who do. Good reason to keep a Firefox around. Tax Mix Plus: Built-in. Old. URL Fixer: Not standard, but then again, I use OpenDNS. CuteMenus - Crystal SVG, Menu Editor: I just hide the whole menu. No it's definitely not the same thing, but it accomplishes the same goal . It's a 'feature' you just click and drag onto a bar. Download Statusbar: Opera's download manager is discreet, but you can't make bars appear short of leaving the Sidebar open. Organize Status Bar: Standard. Status bar in Opera is as editable as any other toolbar. Searchbar Autosizer: I personally don't need this, I use the URL field for searches all the time. If your URL field did a full-page history search, you would too. Cache Status: Don't have it, but not needed as much. Header Spy: Info Sidebar panel has some of these things, but also some things this extension doesn't do. SearchStatus: Nope ShowIP: Nope Massive Cache: Under Opera:Config UPX: Opera is scary compact already. Overall, these built-in features make my internet browsing vastly easier without slowing me down; careful managing of the interface ensures that there are never too many buttons, so finding how to do what I want to do is always easy. This is why I can't consider another browser, at least today; without the speed, feature-set and efficency of Opera. It's not bloated, and never ever memory-leaky nor slow. The latter two terms have never even been used to describe Opera. It uses about 40MB of memory on startup with half a dozen tabs, and with the number of tabs I usually have open (I have two monitors, it gets crazy) about 120MB. It starts up fast all the time.

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