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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
347
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:40:00 -
[121] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend. Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content. I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them. Pubbie.
*pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
Edit:
Mag's wrote: Not quite as beautiful as this spot.
Edit: damn it.
I'M BETTER THAN YOU, TOO! HA! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Not quite as beautiful as this spot.
Edit: damn it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Alara IonStorm
1483
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Not quite as beautiful as this spot. You missed.
Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:43:00 -
[124] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Mag's wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: That was Beautiful.
Not quite as beautiful as this spot. You missed. Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers. I know right. I need to pick myself up some officer ones. *heads off to the market*
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: *pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis)))
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:47:00 -
[126] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: *pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis))) I just thought you meant the plural of pleb tbh. Internet language is always in flux and now I'm rambling.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Berendas wrote:Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex] In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser.
No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s). |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
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Posted - 2012.01.25 00:58:00 -
[128] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:Xolve wrote:Berendas wrote:Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex] In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser. No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s).
So something that costs 40M ISK fitted, should perform in a relatively plateau-esque capactiy as something that costs 700M (Tech 2) - 4b (100mn AB Deadspace/Officer) ISK fitted? Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:01:00 -
[129] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Just because something is an example of good game-design in a game that's mostly informed by bad game-design doesn't make it overpowered. But it makes it out of step with the whole game, and not belonging with everything else. Ships are meant to have strengths and weaknesses, which define their role in fleets. The Drake and Tengu are "overall good", and thus fulfilled too many roles. If there were more ships like the Drake/Tengu, we would see more variation of ships being flown, sure, but if they're all good at everything, that results in far more blandness than everyone flying crappy ships that are crappy at different things.
So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?
Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)
In the name of every God that ever was/is/will be why, always, must we drag the exceptional down to a more mass-acceptable level of mediocrity, on the assumption that this is the only way to "fix" the "problem?"
And what is the problem here, exactly? I suspect that finding the answer to that with respect to EVE runs a bit deeper than just juggling a few stats around...
Anyone remember the old Mercedes-Benz adverts?
"Built up to meet a standard, not down to meet a cost?" Make the existing crappy ships good at different things (best example: Blackbird for T I and the Recon ships for T II), instead of uniformly crap-ifying everything (is that a word? It is now!) so the existing crap can look better.
That'd be like Aston Martin trying to dumb its' cars down to be more in line with those God-awful American SUVs... Probably wouldn't succeed, they'd lose a lot of loyal customers, and the resulting product would still be just another generic piece of **** 3.5t suburban douche-mobile that rides, drives, and handles like a rolling boulder. LOL, I'll stop now before the analogy gets too much more mangled
BCs and T3s are supposed to be versatile, that's their role, as far as I know. And I don't know if you can directly compare the Drake/Tengu, just because they're both shield-tanked missile boats. IMHO, the Drake's nearest equivalent is the Nighthawk. Arguably it needs fixing (the CSM Meeting Minutes touch on this specifically, IIRC)--never flown one, so wouldn't comment there--but you don't fix one thing by making another thing worse so the first thing can seem better in comparison, you fix the first thing by...well, buckling down and bloody well fixing it.
Fake-edit:
On second thought, I think I will mangle the car-analogy a bit more, because that is one of my areas of expertise: You don't improve an Aston Martin DB-12 by binning its' stock v-12 engine and swapping in a Chevy small-block--the automotive paragon of me-too, over-rated generic conformity--just because some bunch of trailer-trash with their beat-to-**** '78 Camaros don't approve of its' much higher capabilities, and is jealous of same...
Real-edit:
Grrrrrrr, sort your forum out, CCP...
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:03:00 -
[130] - Quote
That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically... The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
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Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:06:00 -
[131] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote: Wall-o-text
You completely lost me.
I'm drowning in words, seriously.
What is this? Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
136
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:12:00 -
[132] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
Adapt or die,
Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:25:00 -
[133] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote: Wall-o-text
You completely lost me. I'm drowning in words, seriously. What is this?
Nope!
Learn to read and think about what you've read.
This is not applied quantum-physiscs, OK, it's not that hard.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).
As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)
I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[135] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. Adapt or die,
Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs.
Nos and Damp Domi pilots have become Neut and RR domi pilots i reckon.. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[136] - Quote
And i think that the world has moved on from that as well... The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1160
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:30:00 -
[137] - Quote
Well at least speed-tanked Cyclones are cheaper, now if I can just get it to tur........ahhhhgh!!! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:40:00 -
[138] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically...
If its' speed gets increased, and if its' sig-radius under MWD gets reduced to something smaller than the average capital-ship, then maybe...just maybe...it will be a successful re-invention of that hull.
Oh, hey, new Big Idea(TM):
Re-spec the role boni for tier 2 BCs:
Bin the command-link fitting thingy--leave that to the tier 1s, and give them the buffing they need in general--and re-tool a race/class specific role bonus for each. (Per-level percentage, so yes, essentially a third ship-skill bonus for the class. And why not? Just because T I hulls have always had only two boni for the ship-skill is not a good enough reason to keep it like that, by the way.)
Myrmidon--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in speed/agility penalties for armour mods and rigs per BC skill level. And make it faster.
Drake--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in MWD signature-bloat per BC skill level. And reduce its' base sig. And make it slightly faster.
Hurricane--This is a tough one: This ship's speed and double-damage boni, plus the ease of fitting it already make it extremely powerful, although it's balanced by the fact that it's not so easy or forgiving to fly as the Drake, or anywhere near as durable. Maybe swap slots about--8/5/5 instead of 8/4/6? Feel free to chime in with your ideas here.
Harbinger--I don't fly Amarr much, but these ships need more fitting-capacity (CPU? What CPU?), from what I can see. Maybe a reduction in neut capacitor-use? Optimal-range or tracking bonus? Again, those more experienced of these ships, feel free to chime in.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).
As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)
I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh.
^^This.
As for your question..."Nerf it because I can't fly/got beat by it!" basically.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:56:00 -
[140] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh. Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much? Obviously you haven't.
Actually, no:
I was ignoring you, Mouth:
You're boring. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
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Keen Fallsword
Billionaires Club BLACK-MARK
29
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Posted - 2012.01.25 02:01:00 -
[141] - Quote
Nick Bison wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
... This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
I fly Gallente, all my ships come pre-nerfed or have already been nerfed to near uselessness. Welcome to the club ... Nick PS - obligatory, "you mad?"
So true ! Great :) |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Xolve wrote:I think you need to suppress your anti-social anger induced psychosis, not amplify it.
Riiiiiiiight...
..Ok, then, going to link some nice, safe, easily-digestible Creed/Nickelback [strikeout]pabulum[/strikeout] videos now...
... NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:32:00 -
[143] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend. Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content. I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them. Pubbie.
Never said hisec is better--quite the opposite actually.
Never ran an Incursion--I have more fun ways to make ISK that involve actual risk.
I've been one of the ones to say more than most that losec is badly broken--but let's allow Alliances into FW, that'll fix everything.
The Drake is not imbalanced compared to the other 3 Tier 2 BCs.
You have a Hell of a lot more posts than I ever had, or will.
Learn to read and do basic research first.
Pathetic little Internet-cliche of an Insignifi-c-u-n-t.
E: It's plebe, by the way
E2: Whoops, no it isn't, Petrus got the right one--OK, my bad, I'll let you have that one, Doc. But you're still not getting any Spacebook likes from me regardless. Standards, din'tchaknow, standards!
And mucho typing-fail, fixed. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Aldous Borrn
Originated Saviors Bringers of Death.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.25 02:49:00 -
[144] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:[quote=Petrus Blackshell] So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?
Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)
At a guess, it would be more efficient to bring one lonely ship, determined to be over-powered (by whatever means desired - mathematical analysis, popular opinion, reading chicken entrails - whatever) to the benchmark range of comparable ships, rather than bringing a large number of ships up to the range of a statistical outlier. Both from a coding and from a game-disruption standpoint.
Note that I'm not passing judgement on the Drake; simply that if a single ship is determined to be OP, then it makes sense to bring it in line, rather than bringing all its peers in line with it.
You will notice that nerfing isn't all they know how to do. Assault Ships got some love in the patch today. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:52:00 -
[145] - Quote
Why so many people have so much to say about so little that they will never use The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
503
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 08:45:00 -
[146] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ciar Meara wrote:Your playing EVE, everything gets nerfed in EVE eventually...
Especially now that TomB has rejoined the Reykjavik office, I bet he is denerfing his nerfbat as we speak... They get nerfed when fools don't speak up about it and go on pretending it won't happen. I am protesting and asking for it not to happen.
Request...denied.
Although the nerf should be thought out so that it actually is nerfed and not upgraded. Fiddling with its passive or offensive capabilities or both seems a good idea but they need to consider its uses on several fronts.
Oh and hurrah for the assault ships! -glee- - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5563
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 09:33:00 -
[147] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Mag's wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:
Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much?
Obviously you haven't. Actually, no: I was ignoring you, Mouth: You're boring. So you ignore people, by replying to their posts? Good stuff.
As you seemed to have difficulty with a comeback, I guess I should respond with something: Nice burn.
Hope that helps.
Amidoinitrite?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
123
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:36:00 -
[148] - Quote
i dont care i can fly anything, go crazy mr.nerfman my war dec solution |
Af'ilia
The Directorate
2
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Posted - 2012.01.25 12:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. I am a bitter vet. I can fly it all. Something will be FOTM.
Unless you have another toon.... 09 != vet.
Also, op is dumb. Drake will be better, not worse... why are people complaining?
Wait... your a carebear who afk's in lvl 4's in a drake because your too afraid to fit a raven arent you...?
And on that, this is an approach for CCP to keep 3 month old pilots from tanking the **** out of anything with a ship class that never was supposed to be the tankiest mofo in existence. * exaggeration*
Althought the 25% bonus loss is a harsh one, i love the buff its getting... I might actually try using one now...
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pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
309
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Posted - 2012.01.25 14:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
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