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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:06:00 -
[31]
On projectile weapons themselves, I only really see the need for a few changes, none of which are straight boosts per se.
- ACs tiers should vary by falloff, not by optimal.
- The top tier of small and med Arty should have their damage bumped a little upward and DPS a little down. (Large guns I'm not sure about, but probably not.)
- EMP should have its damage profile tilted a little more toward anti-shield, and a little less toward armor.
- Probably fusion should be the top damage ammo rather than EMP.
As far as overall ship changes go, the main things I'd like to see are more flexible hislots, similar to those of the new Khanid ships, and a little more speed and less signature on Minni ships generally, at the expense of some of their hit points. And the replacement of Target Painting as a racial EW with something else, like scan resolution reduction, or counter EW, whatever.
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In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:07:00 -
[32]
alpha was good probably 3 years ago, now ships have so many hps that it lost most of its effectiveness... can you pop a (decent size) ship in 1-2 volley? nope...
i think was oveur to compare the fleet bobs to "huge ships" with many guns and hps.
how much last these engagements? i don't think 60s, and after that arty have lost its cumulative damage advantage.
sure there are warps in and out but that doesn't change that much and in the end is dps/range/tankage that win gives an advantage to a side (given groups of equal FC and discipline).
(then of course ther's the lag but that's another story)
 Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Is this some kind of elaborate joke?
Quoted because oh holy god, this has to be a joke.
Alpha strike and the ability to continue firing is the single most important thing in a fleet battle.
Guess what the first primrary targets nearly every time in a fleet battle is after scorpions are? Tempests! Why? Because tempests, Maelstroms and Abaddons are the only things able to punch a hole through something before it can warp out if its not tackled, and Abaddons have ridiculous tanks[plus you dont have to worry about them firing their guns 2 minutes later anyway]. These three ships have the highest effective DPS in the game.
Want to know something else?
There is nothing wrong with split weapon systems if a few conditions are met. The Bellicose is actualy a decent ship when set up like a stabber, Missiles and drones means its actualy harder to kill and has only slightly less DPS. High number of mid slots means that its got either ewar or plenty of tank.
Target painters do indeed suck, but that can be fixed in other ways that i will be revealing to this sorry forum in due time.
The Typhoon is only bad because it has so little powergrid, and its still a great ratter regardless[The Phoon would be awesome if it had the PG to fit an MWD, injector, rack of sieges, ACs and one to two reps without an RCU]
Autocannons do not do less DPS than the other turrets, and minmatar ships do not have a damage deficiency. Missile slots make up for any deficiency that could be precieved as there[and its not]. Fit them for goodness sakes. The double damage bonus gives you extra high slots for more missiles!
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Ruciza
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:19:00 -
[34]
It's 4km with medium guns, with large it's 9km. And that graph you posted is misleading, since you don't load tremor at short ranges, and of course also not spike. Artillery is not necessarily a long range weapon, its main use is short range (albeit hopefully beyond webber range).
What you are doing is you chose weapons, tactics, ranges and ammo that prove your point (tactics are orbit, F1-8) and forget the other available options. It is these options that makes Minmatar effective. For example you forget to say that blaster ships would never come into the range where they can use their superior damage. Especially if the arty ships have webbing and painting recons on their side. Sucky painters are the key to kill those blaster-null megas. 800mm ACs aren't.
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Fedman Kasad
Minmatar
Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:55:00 -
[35]
So what stops those pilots with the crazy long-range rails to have webbing-TP ships on their sides and boost their damage even more?
[-------------------------------------------------]
Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world |
MITSUK0
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:34:00 -
[36]
The only change I would like to see for minmatar is swapping emp and fusion around, so our high damage ammo is more explosive. It is the matari racial damage type afterall 
Arty is awesome, in prolonged dps contests its raw damage output is not as high as some other turret types but it is capless, so over reeeeeaaaaaally long engagements it really starts to shine. Also the alpha strike is epic, the larger the gang gets the higher up the killmails the arty ships go.
Autocannons are pretty much fine imho. Blasters for point blank, Pulse for long optimal, Autocannons for long falloff. Plus they are the sole reason that matari skirmish ships work, having that falloff allows a clever pilot to get into a sweet spot where he does more dps than the opposing weapon system, of course the other pilot has to try and manouver to his sweet spot (something a lot of pilots seem to struggle with).
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:57:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/09/2007 23:05:14
the graph is a straight comparsion between various weapons using similar bullets.
using quake on close range setup can do some nice dmg but is really viable? arty generally is not that easy to fit on minnie ship as their pg is tought with low pg ACs in mind, between bs probably the only one that can do that whitout be forced to sacrify too many mods is the mael and for sure it can't do a passive tank + ew/gank setup (as we are mostly speaking of a full gank ship). so yup it can be viable but personally i prefer different setups in gang
for alpha is true that maybe a lucky volley of arty can take down a fleeing ship, but you have also to consider that due to slower reload you will have less ships firing at the next target with less chances to take it down... as long as battle goes on you lose the "alpha" volleys as people get delayed and not fire anymore in the same couple of seconds... i think we can say that alpha get sort of "normalized" between the fleet and lose its "kick"
in eve ships have a very big hps buffer and is not possible to "focus" the alpha strike to deal some direct damage, in other games, as for example mechwarrior4, this is possible and here that it becomes a real balancing factor of alpha focused vs dps.
imo here in eve alpha is just a "surplus", better to have it for sure, but not worth enought to justify a significant lack of dps.
and for example blasters have not only the highest dps of close range weapons, but very high alpha too, if alpha is really a balancing factor then they should be nerfed in dps compartment. (note that i'm not asking for blaster nerfs, just saying that we can't consider alpha a balancing factor for a weapn and not for another)
and for ships called primary... tempest are good primary mostly due to the poor tank so they go down fast, an abaddon damagewise is way more dangerous than a pest but with the huge passive tank it fits who will call it primary? (and you can config an abaddon to fire for more than 2 mins)
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Veryez
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Twin blade
I would give Arty a little bonus to its ROF as that is the main problem 1400's have like 15 second rof base vs large rails with like 7 seconds.
Actually the Base ROF of 1400 T2's is 23.63 sec, while the Base ROF of 425 T2's is 9.56 sec. So even though they have a much higher damage modifier 7.245 to 3.3, artillery still has about 12% less DPS. This is somewhat balanced by the fact that the Tempest gets a double bonus, but carries one less gun. For the Mael, it's balanced that it can fit 3 damage mods without sacrificing a tank. For the Typhoon, well it really can't fit artillery unless it wants to fit cruiser sized weapons, but it has other advantages that make it a good close range fighter (but the shield and armor HP values need to be switched, it's simply a cruel joke the way it is now).
I really don't think you can talk about adjusting projectile weapons, without adjusting the ships. Minmatar don't tank the best, don't do the highest DPS, Have generally less cap, lower sensor strength and shorter locking ranges. If that were the whole story, there would simply be no reason to fly them. But it's not, their true strength is the ability to dictate range of the fight. They have some ships that are the best in game in that area.
That's not to say everything's fine. There are some minor tweaks that should be made. Some ship's are prohibited from using artillery due to powergrid limitations. I would like those ships to get a minor PG increase or have a minor reduction in PG for Artillery (although this would probably unbalance other ships). There is some ammo that could have it's stats moved around since it's completely redundant to other types, but that's not all that important.
Minmatar are the "speed" race, so how come NONE of their ships get a bonus to MWD use? I can't remember the last time I saw a minmatar ship without a MWD on it (ok, mission ships use AB's but for different reasons). Target Painters are a complete waste on minmatar ships. Their impact on projectiles is minor and completely overshadowed by webs. They should be given to Caldari as the second bonus to ECM. Their impact is best served supporting missile ships. They appear to be more of an afterthought than a real EW mod. I don't know many who have even bothered to train Signature Focusing to lvl 5. As Ath pointed out there are other discussions on this subject. I had hoped that CCP would introduce the module that increases ships mass, thus making it harder to accelerate and turn, on TQ, but I don't think there's much chance of that. This module would complement the minmatar style of warfare far better than Target Painters. Even a bonus to MWD thrust would be more useful on Minmatar recons.
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Redback911
Malevolent Intentions
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:17:00 -
[39]
Main problem with split weapon systems is 1) teh ship bonuses and 2) damagemods.
On true split weapon ships id like to see a bonus that covers both weapon systems - ie proj AND missiles in one bonus.
Also some damagemods that cover both systems, but are only like 75% as good as their normal counterpart.
This isnt just for Mimmi, its for all. Khanid had the same problems until they wrere recently fixed (by going 2 1 proper weapon system  )
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:35:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/09/2007 23:40:04
Edited by: Ath Amon on 10/09/2007 23:38:41
in fact i think i made quite claer from the start that i think too that minnie have some very nice ships and had not much to complain about close range.
as you say we dictate range, we have pro and cons, we are still effective in gangs, even if i miss a real full gank setup :P, but we can't have anything and that's fine.
the department minnies are lacking imo is the long range, BS we have for what i see are nowhere competitive with other ones that are able to field better tank and dps at similar range or more range with similar dps and i can have all the alpha of the world but if i fight in high faloff vs someone in his optimal my dmg output will still be crap.
for the phoon it is one of my fav ships, used it nano, vamp, it have potential but when you start to try to get some dps out of it it becomes pretty painfull. 2 dmg for the effect of 1 is a huge drawback that really gimp the ship and all the ships (minnie or not) with the split weapons systems are generally considered bad (look at the caldari post for example or at the considerations about the nightmare...)
is true that we see the problems on various ships but to try to resolve that ship by ship is imo a wrong way to address it, as the problem is common for many and lies elsewhere... sure we can keep adding a slot at a ship if is crap (as cyclone and jag for example) or to try to boost the proj bonus (as naglfar, with poor success i must add) to try to fix here and there, but that doesn't really resolve the real problem
edit @Redback911:
in fact, it had been done with Khanid ships that now are very viable (and nice i must add :P) i don't see why it should not be done for other races too, if it was wrong with amarr it is the sames for minnies and caldari.
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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ViperVenom
Labteck Corporation LTD.
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:49:00 -
[41]
Edited by: ViperVenom on 10/09/2007 23:49:29
Iv been a 100% minnie pilot. I also have 3 accounts. All Minnie. But lets look in to this game unbalance..Let go from biggest to smallest...
the Cap ships.
I have no problem with my Naglafar -->Split weapon system yes.. More training yes.. Out come--? You can Armor tank or shield tank. Its the 1 of 2 Dreads where u can choose you Dmg type. Also i set mine up for maxx dmg.. 2 Gyros//2 BCUs.
The Nid well it kinda suxs.. but u can armor or shield tank it. Its not really a front liner. bBut it can OMFG rep a POS shield no no other so im happy. CCP wants carrier to be front line but the nid just not good at the so let not put it there. I dont
The Battle ships.. The Pwn all 3. Split weapon system or not. Good Pvpers know a well setup phoon is no joke..
The Hacs. Well the Muninn Is a ART boat. VAGA super fast ***** of solo doom
Recon ships Hug/Rap The Pwn even thou TP sux->Who wana get webbed at 40km?
Recon gang ship in a gang the Pwn Solo they can Pwn
Commandships.. Who can complain?
BC..Cyclone tank Hurricane gank
Cruisers..Ruppy (Pwn) Stabber (pwn) Belicoose (sux) the Logistic good miner
LOOK! the real problem with minne is the Bad EW there for lack of it. AC im ok with. Art A little more DPS would be nice to help with the HP boost. After the HP boost im still killing with AC not so much with Arts. I have no problem with my Tank. We fly fast ry and hit hard and make the target fight in our range. If we get a boost fine but the
DEVS NEED TO FIX OUT EW OR LACK OF!!!
If this alliance fails im going back to ganking.
I think im heading for -10. |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:49:00 -
[42]
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 10/09/2007 23:51:44
ATM id have to say that Minmatar are the most balanced race, with the fewest amount of glaringly overpowered ships ( Vagabond mebbe ) and the least number of glaringly underpowered shis ( Belicose, Wolf mebbe, but its an AF so who cares ).
Minmatar ships at present ARE the most versatile, in that the same skill sets ( which for minnie mean primarily guns, armor and shield ) allow you to use ships that fill massively different roles.
Vagabond and Muninna are almost opposite ships, yet they use the same skills.
Maelstrom is a Fleet beast, Tempest is a damn fine solo ship, same gunnery and ship skills, diferent tanks.
Huggin is probably the best Recon, suitable for both gang AND solo ops.
Typhoon is really the only ship i can think of thats a bit iffy. It has a split weapon system, but that doesnt mean its intended to be versatile, it just means it has a split weapon system. Really all it can do is put out pretty good dps and have no tank, or have a tank and totally fail to fit any weapons.
And ofc Minmatar are probably the only real competition to caldari for PvE, as they can shield tank.
ATM, Minmatar pilots ( of which i am happily one) have probably got the least to complain about.
EDIT: About Arty Alpha. When flying a Muninn i once ( with a stunning amount of luck) managed to 1 volley kill a stabber, and tbh would be very surprised to find any tech1 cruiser that could survive 3 volleys from that monster. Big Alpha is SCARY, and minnie got it in bucketloads.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie (mods@ccpgames.com) |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 23:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Goumindong on 10/09/2007 23:55:39
Originally by: Redback911
Main problem with split weapon systems is 1) teh ship bonuses and 2) damagemods.
On true split weapon ships id like to see a bonus that covers both weapon systems - ie proj AND missiles in one bonus.
Also some damagemods that cover both systems, but are only like 75% as good as their normal counterpart.
This isnt just for Mimmi, its for all. Khanid had the same problems until they wrere recently fixed (by going 2 1 proper weapon system )
No, the one and only problem is that damage does not scale similarly compares to a straight setup. If a Phoon had powergrid to fit a tank, mwd, injector, 800 Acs and Sieges it would cap at some 815-850 DPS before damage mods.
Like this setup, which does 805 dps, and has 17000 armor, and fits with AWU 4 and a CPU implant (barrage on the guns)
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Faint Warp Prohibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Siege Missile Launcher II
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Still goes 1370m/s. Cap stable without the MWD.
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.09.11 00:10:00 -
[44]
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 11/09/2007 00:11:00
805 DPS?
Just for a laugh i put together a fit that consisted of 4x 800II with Hail, 4x Siege II with Rage, an MWD, 3 LSE II, 3x Gyro II, 3x BCU II, a DCU II ( i think) and 3 Shield Resist rigs.
That capped out at about 1300 DPS, including 5x Ogre II's ( and ignoring the sig problems with Rage).
Which, frankly, sucks.
For a ship that everyone claims can throw out loadsa DPS as long as you got the skills, the fact it barely beats a blasterthron with SIX damage mods and no tank to speka of, and no tackle, kinda says it all.
Yes its a tier 1 BS, but unlike the Scorp and Domi ( i leave the geddon out cos im not sure ) it really is just a crap alternative to either of its bigger brothers.
But like i said, 1 dodgy ship for a whole race is pretty good going.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie (mods@ccpgames.com) |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.11 00:27:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 11/09/2007 00:28:56
Originally by: bldyannoyed
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 11/09/2007 00:11:00
805 DPS?
Just for a laugh i put together a fit that consisted of 4x 800II with Hail, 4x Siege II with Rage, an MWD, 3 LSE II, 3x Gyro II, 3x BCU II, a DCU II ( i think) and 3 Shield Resist rigs.
That capped out at about 1300 DPS, including 5x Ogre II's ( and ignoring the sig problems with Rage).
Which, frankly, sucks.
For a ship that everyone claims can throw out loadsa DPS as long as you got the skills, the fact it barely beats a blasterthron with SIX damage mods and no tank to speka of, and no tackle, kinda says it all.
Yes its a tier 1 BS, but unlike the Scorp and Domi ( i leave the geddon out cos im not sure ) it really is just a crap alternative to either of its bigger brothers.
But like i said, 1 dodgy ship for a whole race is pretty good going.
ehm you can't fit that... not enought cpu... and anyway it have no tank at all while a mega or an hype can fit some decent passive ones.
and for the other setup 805 dps (drones included) is nothing, expecially with basically a passive tanking.
it can work as you are probably speedy enought to flee from most bs and cs but in a fight you will perform quite badly against them...
not enought dps to break any decent tank (expecially when heavies are gone) and then is just a matter of time before you get popped
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:11:00 -
[46]
Re-Read what i wrote.
I called the Phoon a crap alternative to its big brothers, excusing the Domi and Scorp as they do somthing NEITHER of their bigger brothers do ( Drone Bonuses and ECM ).
And as for the setup i posted, i did say i wasnt sure about the DCU II, so swap it for a co-pro II, tho it probably would all fit with weapon upgrades 5 and a 5% turret CPU Implant.
And as for the 805 DPS setup Goum posted, i was being highly critical of it.
Basically it seems you misunderstood every single thing i wrote.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie (mods@ccpgames.com) |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: bldyannoyed
Re-Read what i wrote.
I called the Phoon a crap alternative to its big brothers, excusing the Domi and Scorp as they do somthing NEITHER of their bigger brothers do ( Drone Bonuses and ECM ).
And as for the setup i posted, i did say i wasnt sure about the DCU II, so swap it for a co-pro II, tho it probably would all fit with weapon upgrades 5 and a 5% turret CPU Implant.
And as for the 805 DPS setup Goum posted, i was being highly critical of it.
Basically it seems you misunderstood every single thing i wrote.
sorry crappy english and read too fast about the domi/scorp example, tought you where saying the opposite lol...
for the other setup yup i saw you where critical to it and the reply was not meant to you, just a general reply to the original poster trying to show why was not that good
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 05:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: bldyannoyed
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 11/09/2007 00:11:00
805 DPS?
Just for a laugh i put together a fit that consisted of 4x 800II with Hail, 4x Siege II with Rage, an MWD, 3 LSE II, 3x Gyro II, 3x BCU II, a DCU II ( i think) and 3 Shield Resist rigs.
The problem is that you do not understand that split weapons systems allow a ship to put out competitive levels of DPS to straight fit ships using damage mods in ways that are harder to reduce, and without using damage mods.
A full up electron megathron with 0 damage mods does about 614 dps, 656 dps with neutrons. A Typhoon does 805 dps.
If the phoon were able to fit a tank, then there would be no issues with the lack of good scaling on the damage mods. It would be fast, not use any cap, and do great DPS at a variety of ranges for having a 7 slot tank.
With the Bellicose it is similar, except it gets free med slots after it nano's the lows instead of free low slots to tank.
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:12:00 -
[49]
No Goum.
The reason the Typhoon gets a decent amount of DPS with no damage mods has NOTHING to do with it being a split weapon system.
It's becasue the Typhoon has 8 bonused wepaon slots, in this case RoF to all 8, which as everyone knows leads to a greater DPS increase than a straight damage bonus.
So compared to a Megathron that has 7 turrets and a 25% DPS bonus, a Phoon has 8 " Turrets" and a 33% DPS boost.
But in order to get that out of it you have to fit eight turrets on a grid simply not designed to handle it, which completely cripples any setup you might want to fit to it.
And because of the dodgy scaling of split weapons if you decide to hell with a tank and try and go full gank, a tactic which is viable if not always sensible on most single weapon ships, you have to fit SIX damage mods to get the DPS up to the same levels as a ship thats only fitted 3.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie (mods@ccpgames.com) |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:34:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Goumindong on 11/09/2007 13:34:46
8 weapons, RoF bonus on them, 5 heavy drones. Yes. Ditto the Bellicose.
The issue is, that split weapons systems nearly always have more total weapons. Which gives them an advantage when not fitting damage mods.
The problem with the phoon is not the split weapons, its that it cant fit a tank at the same time.
If it could, it would be an absolute beast as a solo ship.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:38:00 -
[51]
actually is not like that... is not that split weapons ships get some mysterious bonus that makes their dps higher... the only "benefit" here is that you have a dmg bonus on all the guns.
this can make them balanced damagewise with no mods but as you updrage them here that dps go down...
the truth is that even with no dmg mods you are in some way gimping your ship... why?
example
phoon use 2 dmg bonuses to apply 1 dmg mod on 8 guns
maelstrom use 1 dmg bonus to 1 dmg mod on 8 weapons this gives the space for another ship bonus that is geared to tank
you see the problem? most ships have 6-8 guns in wich they apply 1 or 2 ship bonuses (and eventually use the other bonus for in other areas)
this makes the ship balanced with no mods but because it actually is using 2 ship bonuses to achieve what other ships do with just 1
when you start to add dmg mods the situation become even worse
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Odium47
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:45:00 -
[52]
The fact that all weapons slots are bonused doesnt necesarily mean you will use them all. Its like heaving a Merc sl 55 amg and a sl 55 brabus. Its the same thing. Brabus have more power, but doesnt necesarily that it can put it on the road...See my point ? Thats way the split sistem doesnt work, it works only at half of its potential ...
The good part about split sistems is that they work no matter the range or the ship !!! Ofcourse, a well thought out fitting will help it even more !
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:49:00 -
[53]
I think minmatar are fine as they are tbh, even the bellicose is great for lulz.
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Pan Crastus
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:06:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Pan Crastus on 11/09/2007 14:05:51
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 10/09/2007 16:52:35
Best commandship,
By what? Most other CS tank better, Astarte has highest DPS by far, the new Damnation is awesome too. Sleipnir is only good with very expensive shield boosters, otherwise it has serious cap/fitting issues (if you want to tank at all).
Quote:
best hac,
Check out the new Deimos and Sacrilege ... Vagabonds have crap DPS and need much more skillful piloting.
Quote:
best recon,
I still won't engage a Curse in my Huginn. Just because the Huginn/Rapier has a unique and very useful role in gangs, it doesn't make it the best Recon (esp. with the useless 2nd EW bonus).
Quote:
best fleet BS(or second best),
*******s, Rokh, Mega, Abaddon are all much better except in huge fleet fights where alpha strike is all that counts.
Quote:
best interdictor,
check out the new heretic ...
Quote:
best t1 cruisers & frigs
yeah, the Rifter is still good ...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:09:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ath Amon
...
Repeat after me you knucklehead
the larger number of bonused weapons means that the ship has an advantage in situations where it would not typically fit damage mods
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:11:00 -
[56]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/09/2007 14:11:35
Tempests get shot early because they have weak tanks? No (it may be a very small consideration), they got shot early for the reasons Goumindong said they do. Because they put out a comparitively large amount of damage in a fleet situation. When each target lasts for 6-7seconds which ship do you think does the most damage? Tempests(maelstroms), by some margin.
The Abaddon may edge it against shield tankers (low thermal/em) but you don't exactly see hundreds of rokhs & ravens in a fleet fight do you? Also you're forgetting that the Abaddon costs a full 40million extra to build than the tempest, its a tier 3 bs.
As it stands tempests are about the most important damage dealer in fleet, megathrons pad things out and provide better support against smaller targets. When you want to kill lots of battleships fast theres one ship that does it better than the rest and thats a tempest.
Artillery is fine, if it gets any better its going to be getting a tad unbalanced. Apocs fitting artillery should be a big clue.
[Balance] The Caldari problem. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 14:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Artillery is fine, if it gets any better its going to be getting a tad unbalanced. Apocs fitting artillery should be a big clue.
The fact that noone has seen any Apocs with Artillery in the last 2 years or so is a big clue, yes.
Artillery needs a boost ...
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: welsh wizard
Artillery is fine, if it gets any better its going to be getting a tad unbalanced. Apocs fitting artillery should be a big clue.
The fact that noone has seen any Apocs with Artillery in the last 2 years or so is a big clue, yes.
Artillery needs a boost ...
The fact that you dont see Apocs with arties anymore is because...
1. Apocs with arties kinda sucked due to PG constraints
2. Maelstroms with Arties do it a lot better
3. You can actually get a good alpha out of a Baddon with Tachs.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:20:00 -
[59]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/09/2007 14:26:21
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: welsh wizard
Artillery is fine, if it gets any better its going to be getting a tad unbalanced. Apocs fitting artillery should be a big clue.
The fact that noone has seen any Apocs with Artillery in the last 2 years or so is a big clue, yes.
Artillery needs a boost ...
Clearly you've been sat in a dark room with a bucket on your head for some time.
I wouldn't exactly be devastated if my arty ships got boosted but it isn't in the interest of the game.
[Balance] The Caldari problem. |
Pan Crastus
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 14:30:00 -
[60]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/09/2007 14:26:21
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: welsh wizard
Artillery is fine, if it gets any better its going to be getting a tad unbalanced. Apocs fitting artillery should be a big clue.
The fact that noone has seen any Apocs with Artillery in the last 2 years or so is a big clue, yes.
Artillery needs a boost ...
Clearly you've been sat in a dark room with a bucket on your head for some time.
Clearly, you are just trolling. How about you show me some recent ones on your killboard (post the IDs, not links).
Quote:
I wouldn't exactly be devastated if my arty ships got boosted but it isn't in the interest of the game.
Says the originator of numerous "boost caldari" whine threads.
EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
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