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Fraunn
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:57:00 -
[1]
Heavy Assault Ship Cruiser sized t2 ship. Good dmg and resistance.
Anyone that can tell me there role ingame?
Solo pawnmobile? Damage support?
Compare BC and HAC? Who shouldwin a 1on1? (good SP and pvp skills).
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Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:59:00 -
[2]
(Relatively) fast moving damage support ships for gangs. Only one or two are viable as solo ships.
BC vs. Hac would depend entirely on the situation and the hacs involved, but should probably go the hac's way due to comparable tanks and dps, but with the hac having a smaller sig and better maneuverability.
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Aferah
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:04:00 -
[3]
solo heavy hiiter and just t2 ship- means little tufffffffffer little more dps, more isk more fun - big balls required.
let me guess u got ur first 1 and got ganked ? hyhy get ur first carrier and get ganked - same post in few month " carrier role in game"
goodbye
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Fraunn
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:10:00 -
[4]
actually no. i havent lost any yet. i have killed a few stuff flying in smaller gangs.
but i have never done anything solo with my. tested against corpies and i cant rly say i would go up against a bc with my hac.
and the step down... hac vs cruiser... easy. so for solo pvp i rather take a bc actually.
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Grawshellar
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Fraunn actually no. i havent lost any yet. i have killed a few stuff flying in smaller gangs.
but i have never done anything solo with my. tested against corpies and i cant rly say i would go up against a bc with my hac.
and the step down... hac vs cruiser... easy. so for solo pvp i rather take a bc actually.
Really depends on the ship. There are good BCs, and their are relatively bad HACs. There are also situations where the things that make a HAC great mean less, and the bonuses that a BC has means more; and of course the opposite is also true.
Going zipping into enemy territory with a fast gang squad? Take a speedy vagabond over a better tanked but slower cyclone.
Need to snipe at 100km? The eagle can accomplish this a lot better then a Ferox!
Need to spend alot of time in combat without a chance to dock? Take an Ishtar instead of a myrmidon since it can field several waves of heavy drones, and you wont have a chance to replace a lost one!
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Jasai Kameron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fraunn actually no. i havent lost any yet. i have killed a few stuff flying in smaller gangs.
but i have never done anything solo with my. tested against corpies and i cant rly say i would go up against a bc with my hac.
and the step down... hac vs cruiser... easy. so for solo pvp i rather take a bc actually.
Generally speaking, BCs are superior to HACs, especially when you factor in the price. The purpose of HACs, as was mentioned above, is that they are maneaverable. This has two main advantages. The first is for wolf packs or hit-and-run operations. If you're going to send a gang into enemy space a HAC gang will move much faster than a battlecruiser gang. The second advantage is if you are going to speed-tank. Ishtar, Cerberus and Sacrilege are going to be far superior nanoed than their BC counterparts (heck, the sacrilege doesn't even have a BC counterpart). The Vaga's another good example of a ship relying on speed.
There you go then, that's there role.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.09.10 22:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fraunn Heavy Assault Ship Cruiser sized t2 ship. Good dmg and resistance.
Anyone that can tell me there role ingame?
Light, agile, fairly fast ships for DPS+tank in faster-moving gangs.
Originally by: Fraunn Solo pawnmobile?
The Vaga, possibly Nano-Ishtar, are the two that fill this role. Sacrilege can solo well, but is no 'solopwnmobile'.
Originally by: Fraunn Damage support?
Muninn, Eagle, Zealot, Deimos, and Cerberus fill this role. Some better than others.
Originally by: Fraunn Compare BC and HAC? Who shouldwin a 1on1? (good SP and pvp skills).
HAC has the advantage in range and speed/agility. BC is better at everything else.
If a BC and a HAC flown by similarly-skilled pilots were to have a 1v1 fight, the BC should win almost every time.
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Magazaki
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Posted - 2007.09.11 08:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Siakel HAC has the advantage in range and speed/agility. BC is better at everything else.
If a BC and a HAC flown by similarly-skilled pilots were to have a 1v1 fight, the BC should win almost every time.
Sometimes due to more bonuses the HAC's get better range too. Also, the comparison of their tanks is not always THAT clear due to the T2 resists.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.11 09:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 09:07:15
Originally by: Fraunn Heavy Assault Ship Cruiser sized t2 ship. Good dmg and resistance.
Anyone that can tell me there role ingame?
Solo pawnmobile? Damage support?
Compare BC and HAC? Who shouldwin a 1on1? (good SP and pvp skills).
Really depends on which HAC vs which BC. Many BCs will be able to repel many HACs attacking them solo, sometimes even murder them completely.
Mostly, BCs will outtank them (and have a meatier buffer). Some BCs will outgank them, too. The only real issue is the relative slow speed/maneuver of a BC compared to a HAC (which does make a BC more vunerable for solo-ing), something which nano-ed HACs have no problem with.
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Ashaz
Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:10:00 -
[10]
But hacs are sexy!
that is reason enough to use them. but yea. they are severely overpriced. You can get a BS for the same price. or even 2 of the cheaper ones.
They are nice toys for PVEing in tho, if you like me, can't stand the bulky battleships. __________________________________ Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice. iDrone |
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E Vile
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Posted - 2007.09.11 18:26:00 -
[11]
Edited by: E Vile on 11/09/2007 18:26:57
Originally by: Magazaki
Originally by: Siakel HAC has the advantage in range and speed/agility. BC is better at everything else.
If a BC and a HAC flown by similarly-skilled pilots were to have a 1v1 fight, the BC should win almost every time.
Sometimes due to more bonuses the HAC's get better range too. Also, the comparison of their tanks is not always THAT clear due to the T2 resists.
I get ranges past 100km with my Cerb. I ran lvl 4 missions with a passive shield tanked Cerb. Odd yes but I did it to test. I like the drake better then the cerb though. HAC for me atm is just s passtime till my Nighthawk trains (in 5 days).
My favorite HACs by far are Ishtar (Nano or even passive shield tanked. The Deimos for a clear second. I suggest waiting for training on the Ishtar though...who knows how the drone changes will effect it. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
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Djerin
Obsidian Exploration Services
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:12:00 -
[12]
Personally speaking i'd say BC are better in a 1v1 situation. Of course this is a very indifferent statement. A Blaster-Brutix wont stand a chance against a Barrage-Vaga.
The thing is BC are using same type of guns and because that's medium size they're potentially hitting HACs for full damage. HACs dual damage bonus is countered by BCs additional weapons. The range bonus isn't worth much in 1v1 because it has to be fought in scrambler range anyways. So it only results in HACs prolly using an ammo type dealing slightly more damage. Yet especially a maxed BC has an enormous tank (tanking bonus and generally more slots available).
HACs work better against battleships because battleships have much bigger issues with stuff like tracking, target signature, cap consumption and so on.
So who should win a 1v1? In my opinion that has to be the battlecruiser. But as a HAC pilot i have to say that's ok. Every ship class has to have it's Achilles' heel.
---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:38:00 -
[13]
Vagabond, over 400 raw dps with reasonable skills, just don't get webbed, not so hot on resistances, but as with Minmatar the philosophy is fit so much damage capability as to overwhelm a ship that is trying to tank and gank.
Not really a solo pwnmobile, EWAR ships are problematic, but hopefully you can flee. badass Damage
I was actually testing out a vagabond fitted to the best of my ability (and budget) and it would be very close call to a Drake also fitted to the best of my ability.
Only hope vs. myrmidon would be to draw out and kill its drones.
Vs. the other battlecruisers it would fare much better. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 20:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fraunn Heavy Assault Ship Cruiser sized t2 ship. Good dmg and resistance.
Anyone that can tell me there role ingame?
Solo pawnmobile? Damage support?
Compare BC and HAC? Who shouldwin a 1on1? (good SP and pvp skills).
Its designed as a hit and run vessel solo,as a kinda anti support/small ships.
In a gang its a easy choice in speedy roaming gangs because it can take some damage and inflict a nice amount of damage back. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Mortis Tyrathlion
Twisted Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 21:52:00 -
[15]
The HAC is a very nice little class (can, though haven't yet, fly Amarrian ones, Gally ones in training), but it has its weaknesses. A corpmate managed to kill a Zealot in his Thorax, and several Vagas and a Sacri have fallen to careful gang tactics... but on the other hand, they have a lot of lethal potential when used right. The thing to remember, I think, is that at the end of the day, it's still a cruiser. A boosted, nasty cruiser, but a cruiser nonetheless.
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Chromakey Dreamcoat
Caldari Model Of Aggression
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Posted - 2007.09.11 22:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xaen Vagabond, over 400 raw dps with reasonable skills, just don't get webbed, not so hot on resistances, but as with Minmatar the philosophy is fit so much damage capability as to overwhelm a ship that is trying to tank and gank.
Not really a solo pwnmobile, EWAR ships are problematic, but hopefully you can flee. badass Damage
I was actually testing out a vagabond fitted to the best of my ability (and budget) and it would be very close call to a Drake also fitted to the best of my ability.
Only hope vs. myrmidon would be to draw out and kill its drones.
Vs. the other battlecruisers it would fare much better.
400 dps? that doesn't sound right. can someone verfiy this?
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chromakey Dreamcoat 400 dps? that doesn't sound right. can someone verfiy this?
I'll understand if you don't trust the person that said it to prove it, but I'm just using EFT:
Vagabond (Fitted for maximum gank, minimal tank.)
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (EMP M) 220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (EMP M) 220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (EMP M) 220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (EMP M) 220mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I (EMP M) 'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I (Torrent)
Auxiliary Thrusters I Polycarbon Engine Housing I
(5) Hobgoblin IIs
412 DPS raw Turret Damage: 303.4 DPS Missiles DPS: 25.1 DPS Drone DPS: 84 DPS 622 Volley damage 3370 m/s
Relevant Skills HAM IV, MLO V, HAC IV, Warhead Upgrades III, Rapid Firing IV, Medium Projectile Turret IV, Gallente Drone Specialization IV, Drone Interfacing V (yes, V - I like me some drones), Combat Drone Op IV + all the required skills to fit and train the ones listed.
Yes, it's a bit skill heavy because it takes missile skills, Drone skills and gunnery skills, but I've got them, so why not use them?
EFT it yourself ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
Dianeces
Minmatar The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:40:00 -
[18]
1.) Join PvP Corp 2.) PvP so you know which ships fill which roles 3.) ??? 4.) Profit
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Yowin
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Xaen Vagabond (Fitted for maximum gank, minimal tank...
This is a crapy setup.
If u want do heavy damage, use another ship. Vaga is for run.
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Djerin
Obsidian Exploration Services
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:50:00 -
[20]
And keep in mind, that no vaga will ever attack in optimal range. It has to be outside web range. Otherwise it is doomed to fail. Considering this a vaga's dps is about 400 only with maxed skills (EFT would show something like 600 dps at optimal range).
---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.09.12 14:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Djerin And keep in mind, that no vaga will ever attack in optimal range. It has to be outside web range. Otherwise it is doomed to fail. Considering this a vaga's dps is about 400 only with maxed skills (EFT would show something like 600 dps at optimal range).
With tech II guns (Barrage) I get 460 DPS from EFT. With Hail it's 553 DPS
Then again I have excellent drone skills which accounts for 93.3 of the total DPS, Arby HAM launcher is 25.1 DPS. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
Djerin
Obsidian Exploration Services
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Posted - 2007.09.12 15:11:00 -
[22]
Well, i overrated it a bit i guess.
My point was that a vaga operates in fall-off exclusively. So depending on if you're afraid of overheated domi-webs or not you're only doing 50-75% of what EFT shows. A BC setup to massively tank will be hard to break in a 1v1.
---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Cha Jeng
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Posted - 2007.09.13 01:05:00 -
[23]
I have to agree with everyone else it largely depends, but I have yet to lose my Ishtar to a BC, or a BS for that matter. I did get blobbed once, but other than that, they either ran or got popped. Course my ishtar has over 10k armor and 3 muons...
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Drudenhaus
Caldari Initrode The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.09.13 01:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dianeces 1.) Join PvP Corp 2.) PvP so you know which ships fill which roles 3.) ??? 4.) Profit
#s 3 and 4 made me lol irl :)
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