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Ikel
Caldari
m3 Corp
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 01:54:00 -
[1]
I just bought and fitted my Caracal, after I became extremely bored with mining. I was reading the different threads about fittings for a Caracal, and I came across the PvP Caracal fitting thread. I have three questions about the Caracal.
1)Is the Caracal really that bad for 1v1 pvp?
2)I am a little confused about what I should fit in my medium slots. Should I put two multispectral ecm I one invulnerability field, 10mn ab, and a 20km scrambler? Or what?
3)When I am fighting another player, do I keep my shield going the whole time, or do I only use it when I take a lot of damage?
Thanks in advance everyone.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:04:00 -
[2]
It's not that bad ship but it has a couple of bad points that limits it in 1v1.
Mainly:
1. Speed/mass. It's very slow and heavy, makes it hard to catch the targets, to keep them in range and to run away should you need to.
2. Shield tanking. It can't tank very well and keep the target scrambled at the same time.
As for setup I would suggest 1x 10mn, 1x scram, 3x sensor damp if it's an EW tank you want.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:12:00 -
[3]
Not bad, but like any ship you have to play to its strengths.
1v1 I'd go with HAMs and like the person above me said, a damp EW tank. Guess it depends if you have a target in mind or just general PvP, maybe throw in a ECM burst with the damps.
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Jan Ars
The Thrill Kill Clique
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:15:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Is a Caracal really that bad for 1v1 PvP?
Solo? Yes.
In a big gang with a tackler? No.
ECM Specialist
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Ikel
Caldari
m3 Corp
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
Not bad, but like any ship you have to play to its strengths.
1v1 I'd go with HAMs and like the person above me said, a damp EW tank. Guess it depends if you have a target in mind or just general PvP, maybe throw in a ECM burst with the damps.
A few questions, what are HAMs and what exactly is a damp EW tank? Thanks in advance!
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DanKills
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:42:00 -
[6]
HAMs are "heavy assault missiles," like heavy missiles but with 10% (or less) of the range, and around 10% (tops) more damage. Not worth it in my book.
Sensor dampeners reduce the targeting range and lengthen the targeting time of whoever you point them at, so keeping the other ship locked down in that matter is "tanking" of a sort.
With missile bombardment IV, missile projection IV, and Caldari Cruiser IV, your heavies will reach out and hit someone at 102km. Pop a Microwarpdrive in one of the mid slots, and you can maintain that range as long as you like.
That's my reccomendation, anyway.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:43:00 -
[7]
If you've gotten into this because you're "bored of mining", perhaps the Caracal is not the ship you should be using for this. Forget about 1 vs 1, fly with some friends.
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Crazy Tasty on 11/09/2007 02:52:50
If he's solo, he'll have to be within 24k to warp scram. If you're already going to be that close, the extra damage of the HAM's would be worth it. HAM damage is closer to 25% more than heavies also.
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DanKills
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
If he's solo, he'll have to be within 24k to warp scram. If you're already going to be that close, the extra damage of the HAM's would be worth it.
But they're also talking about a "damp tank."
Add this to the fact that the Caracal's tank already sucks (with each and every mid slot dedicated to boosters, extenders, and hardeners), and you have a recipe for disaster running in up close with an even crappier tank.
10% damage (8% when I ran the numbers a while back) simply isn't worth putting a ship that fragile that close to the enemy.
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Crazy Tasty
Beyond Divinity Inc
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.11 02:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DanKills
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
If he's solo, he'll have to be within 24k to warp scram. If you're already going to be that close, the extra damage of the HAM's would be worth it.
But they're also talking about a "damp tank."
Add this to the fact that the Caracal's tank already sucks (with each and every mid slot dedicated to boosters, extenders, and hardeners), and you have a recipe for disaster running in up close with an even crappier tank.
10% damage (8% when I ran the numbers a while back) simply isn't worth putting a ship that fragile that close to the enemy.
I wasn't trying to discuss the failing's of the Cara in PvP. He asked for a 1v1 setup, so he got some ideas.
I just checked EFT and for my skills, HAMs are over 25% more DPS even without maxing the HAM skill.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.11 03:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
Originally by: DanKills
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
If he's solo, he'll have to be within 24k to warp scram. If you're already going to be that close, the extra damage of the HAM's would be worth it.
But they're also talking about a "damp tank."
Add this to the fact that the Caracal's tank already sucks (with each and every mid slot dedicated to boosters, extenders, and hardeners), and you have a recipe for disaster running in up close with an even crappier tank.
10% damage (8% when I ran the numbers a while back) simply isn't worth putting a ship that fragile that close to the enemy.
I wasn't trying to discuss the failing's of the Cara in PvP. He asked for a 1v1 setup, so he got some ideas.
I just checked EFT and for my skills, HAMs are over 25% more DPS even without maxing the HAM skill.
Are you fitting an RCU to get the HAM's on there? I don't know that I'd have the PG to fit HAM II's - but I do HML II's.
You can get 290 DPS out of a Caracal with 5x HML II/2 BCU's.
Liang
Yarr? |
ssbn732
Minmatar
Division of Eden
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Posted - 2007.09.11 07:03:00 -
[12]
this is my opinion of caracal PvP, my cyclone was OBLITERATED by a sole caracal, T2 launchers, and a warp scram, the thing came out of nowhere and wamped me, so in my opinon the caracal is a decent PVP ship (PS it had caladari navy missiles)
When the battles seem hopeless, thats when true heros shine, never fear death, embrace it and use it as power, to overcome your enemys. |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.11 08:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ssbn732
this is my opinion of caracal PvP, my cyclone was OBLITERATED by a sole caracal, T2 launchers, and a warp scram, the thing came out of nowhere and wamped me, so in my opinon the caracal is a decent PVP ship (PS it had caladari navy missiles)
You should have slaughtered a Caracal in your Cyclone.
The answer to the "Is Caldari really that bad?" is both yes and no.
A damp-a-cal can run 2km/s with 2 damps, tons of range, 151 dps and be cap stable, or it can run the same with cap lasting 3 and a half minutes and 215 dps.
With good skills it will put any cruiser below 15km lock, and will scramble to 24km. This means it can pretty much solo a good number of cruisers providing conditions are right[damp the opponent before it launches drones].
But is it paticularly good? No, its not.
Is it useless? No, not useless.[and nor is an electron/LSE Moa, or a gank/lse/ham drake]
But you shouldnt be expecting great results.
With enough money[and i mean, a LOT of money] you will get awesome results out of a Cerberus though[fast, lots of DPS, lots of range, cap stable, decent buffer tank, immune to all but the fastest of tacklers, and for the cost of half your DPS[need to refit] immune to all tacklers and not dependant on cap boosters], but that is pretty much it.
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Capt Murphy
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ikel
I just bought and fitted my Caracal, after I became extremely bored with mining. I was reading the different threads about fittings for a Caracal, and I came across the PvP Caracal fitting thread. I have three questions about the Caracal.
1)Is the Caracal really that bad for 1v1 pvp?
2)I am a little confused about what I should fit in my medium slots. Should I put two multispectral ecm I one invulnerability field, 10mn ab, and a 20km scrambler? Or what?
3)When I am fighting another player, do I keep my shield going the whole time, or do I only use it when I take a lot of damage?
Thanks in advance everyone.
LMao for one dont use Sensor damps, unless you can initally out damage your adversary, then you dont need tank, he will try to cut and run, ecm burst is the most useless item in the game, my other toon is a ecm (caldari) pilot and has proven time and time again that ecm burst suck, unless your attacked by a hostile gang of noob ships then your dead regardless (because of while you should be running, you we be dying from laughter). Play to its bonuses, target painters are def. a plus, BCU's even better, but at the end of the day a 1v1 in a caracal is risky business, the isk, and time traning to make it an effective solo ship will only land you in a Cerb in the future (which is a beast, mhhhhhhhhh)
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Reacz
Caldari
Empirius Enigmus Navy
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.11 10:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Reacz on 11/09/2007 10:45:35
*Sarcasm* Wtf are you people on? And where can I get some of that smoke?
Caracal is the win in 1v1. End of. *Turns off Sarcasm*
5x Heavy Assaults and 2x BCUs in lows will bag you at least 85 dps per missile. (Of course I have the skills as well).
You'll get about 18k range, now please, don't tell me you aren't gonna cut anything up that messes with you firing every 5 secs?
With tech 2 Heavy Assaults loaded with precisions you get at least 75km range. Again, firing every 5 secs...If anything can out-tank the damage that this beast can output they deserve to kill you.
Of course the weak points of the Caracal are that it has sucky resists and barely any armour. Stick a Large Shield Extender on (tech 1) and you'll get at least 4k shields.
But I digress. Just like anything if you have the 'proper' skills you can turn any ship into a decent killing machine (even a mining barge). :P
My recommended setup:
Hi: 5x HAMS or 4 if you can't fit 5 (without decent skills you may have a job)
Mid: AB, Med Shield Booster, Large Shield Extender (you may have to drop this tbh due to the extra grid needs of HAMs), Warp Disruptor
Lows: 2x BCU
The Caracal is a cheap ship, so fit it as cheaply as possible. Get to about 10k to your target (About the range you'll get with poor missile skills), turn on your missiles, shield booster, warp disruptor and pray.
I'd forget the ECM, its good at range but you're gonna be too close for it to be useful to be honest. I took on a Crow and Vaga in my HAM Caracal, they only just got through my shields before they had to run. But thats another story.
And yeah, the Cerberus is the true beast of the family. *Drools*
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:19:00 -
[16]
Fit with:
5x Heavy Assault Missile
1x 10MN Microwarpdrive
3x Remote Sensor Dampener
1x Warp Disruptor
1x Damage Control
1x Ballistic Control
3x Light ECM Drones
You might be tight for CPU/power, if the former the ballistic will have to go in favour of a reinforce bulkhead (real men hull tank, and you'll get better hull resists than armour anyway). If power, swap some of the HAMs out for lower power launchers, such as the Assault or Heavy. The remote sensor dampeners will reduce your target's effective range and increase their lock time, and with any luck the ECM drones will kick in to break their lock. With the RSDs running, this means a good long time before they can lock you again.
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Odium47
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:46:00 -
[17]
Caracal is the best cruiser for pvp.
It disregards the range when using heavy missiles launchers.
Can put out a decent tank, also have the best damage.
The problem with it is that it cant tank, damage and tackle at the same time !!!
Anyway for better tanking abilities, it needs investments ... in rigs ! Then it can do all 3 things ! But is it worth it ???
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2007.09.11 11:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: MITSUK0 on 11/09/2007 11:48:59
"Is a Caracal really that bad for 1v1 PvP?"
Yes. Yes it is.
Cant tank and tackle at the same time. Uses expensive modules (shares with the drake and carebear pay through the nose apparently). Does mediocre dps. Has crappy cap and crappy powergrid.
So, yes, it sucks for 1v1 pvp. Good gang ship though.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.11 12:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DanKills
Originally by: Crazy Tasty
If he's solo, he'll have to be within 24k to warp scram. If you're already going to be that close, the extra damage of the HAM's would be worth it.
But they're also talking about a "damp tank."
3x t1 damps with no skills will still bring down the avg cruisers lock range below 24km, with named/t2 damps and some skills it will bring BS down there too.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hyakuchan
Hyakucorp
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:07:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 11/09/2007 13:11:08
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 11/09/2007 13:09:36
Originally by: Ikel
I just bought and fitted my Caracal, after I became extremely bored with mining. I was reading the different threads about fittings for a Caracal, and I came across the PvP Caracal fitting thread. I have three questions about the Caracal.
1)Is the Caracal really that bad for 1v1 pvp?
The tournament demonstrated the Caracal's strengths; you can field a lot of them on a budget.
That's where the strengths end. The Caracal, like the Drake, suffers the fact that missiles are not comparable to turrets for flat out damage. You can't force a solo battle without spending at least some slots on webs and scrams, cutting into your slot pool.
Missile combat simply doesn't stay competitive as you go up the food chain. The Caracal CAN be a competitive ship... but it's far more dependent on skill then, say, the Vexor, which can put up a swinging fight with just good drone skills.
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FRIGATS Coalition
FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross
"We gonna beat you with frigats." |
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:12:00 -
[21]
It's bad in the same way a Retribution is bad (though to a lesser extent).
It can tank, and it can gank, but it can't tackle very effectively because it's slow. The ideal way to use it is to not waste slots on an MWD, but hunt for targets that start in your range. Web, Scram, and EW up, with some damage and/or EW mods in your lows. Use heavy assault missiles since you'll be operating at 10km or less anyway.
It's not ideal and not versatile, but it will work if the targets present themselves :)
Scrapheap Challenge Forums |
Pestilence Aligher'ri
Caldari
V i L e
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Posted - 2007.09.11 13:27:00 -
[22]
If I am not mistaken, the caracal won a solo pvp tourny with Shin Ra piloting it. A lot has changed since that time but missiles still do good damage towards other cruisers and damps still are overpowering if used correctly.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.09.11 14:07:00 -
[23]
Caracal:
The ship is very nice with 5 medslots and 5 launchers. the missile velocity bonus makes it perfect to fit HAM missiles and the damage bonus isn't bad against many targets. They will do 25% more DPS than Heavies if you have similar skills and have a range with lv4 supportskills over 24km (T2 Warp Disruptor)
The Caracal will never be able to tackle efficiently. But a MWD, Warp Disruptor II and some kind of active or passive tank will take you pretty far.
A while ago I ran equal with a webber-Thorax in a series of tests even though my skills were poor at the time. The Caracal is a strong ship - Don't expect it to nuke other cruisers convincingly, but against equally skilled pilots you can create some very viable setups.
At one point I took a T1 fitted Caracal to low sec and I encountered a T1 fitted Thorax (whats the odds of a 100% T1 caracal vs a 100% T1 thorax) and he only beat me because I somehow didn't had a damage control squeezed in and he had. He had about 40-50% structure left when we finished.
You will have to take some chances when fitting this ship :p
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I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
Hyakuchan
Hyakucorp
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Posted - 2007.09.11 15:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pestilence Aligher'ri
If I am not mistaken, the caracal won a solo pvp tourny with Shin Ra piloting it. A lot has changed since that time but missiles still do good damage towards other cruisers and damps still are overpowering if used correctly.
Tournament fights don't count because you don't need to equip scrams.
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FRIGATS Coalition
FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross
"We gonna beat you with frigats." |
Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.11 15:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark
Caracal:
The ship is very nice with 5 medslots and 5 launchers. the missile velocity bonus makes it perfect to fit HAM missiles and the damage bonus isn't bad against many targets. They will do 25% more DPS than Heavies if you have similar skills and have a range with lv4 supportskills over 24km (T2 Warp Disruptor)
The Caracal will never be able to tackle efficiently. But a MWD, Warp Disruptor II and some kind of active or passive tank will take you pretty far.
A while ago I ran equal with a webber-Thorax in a series of tests even though my skills were poor at the time. The Caracal is a strong ship - Don't expect it to nuke other cruisers convincingly, but against equally skilled pilots you can create some very viable setups.
At one point I took a T1 fitted Caracal to low sec and I encountered a T1 fitted Thorax (whats the odds of a 100% T1 caracal vs a 100% T1 thorax) and he only beat me because I somehow didn't had a damage control squeezed in and he had. He had about 40-50% structure left when we finished.
You will have to take some chances when fitting this ship :p
Fitting a DCU on a Caracal strikes me as ridiculous. Either you wouldn't have the PG to fit HAM's (RCU), the damage (BCU), or the speed (OD). Caldari ships don't have lots of low slots, and they don't have a lot of structure.
Also, the Thorax pilot was a nubbin or had a crap setup. I fly the Caracal, and I fly the Thorax - and unless (for some magical reason) the Thorax starts 70km away and for some reason won't warp out.... the Thorax will win.
550 DPS out of a Thorax. Seriously. I did a comparison of Caracal vs Vexor/Thorax a couple months back... tbh, it wasn't pretty. Given equally skilled pilots, its pretty well *impossible* for the Caracal pilot to win against a Vexor.
It *IS* possible for the Caracal plot to win against a Thorax under very specific conditions.
Of course, this kind of comparison doesn't (and can't) take ewar or player skill into account. If your opponent forgets to launch their drones.. not alot to do about it!
Mark
Yarr? |
Arii Smith
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.09.11 16:28:00 -
[26]
Caracal is terrible jsut train Gallente if you want to PVP.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.09.11 17:11:00 -
[27]
The caracal can get pretty close to a Thorax - and other ships...
Im not saying it's easy, and it definately leaves it weak for other ships.
But it can be done
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I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.09.11 18:40:00 -
[28]
the only caldari ships that are worthwhile for solo pvp would be the;
crow
blaster fitted harpy
HAM Drake
I also advocate cross-training into another race if solo pvp is your thing.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:23:00 -
[29]
Using caracals for solo work is like trying to use a saw as a hammer.
Both are excelent tools, but it's just not the one for that job...
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2007.09.11 19:31:00 -
[30]
Don't go mainstream... Caracal doesn't WTFPWNBBQ everything but it has potential.
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I'm a nice guy!!
MOA is NOT UGLY!!! It's A FREAK SHOW!!!! |
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