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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:39:00 -
[1]
Whats the point of manufacturing and selling if people can just buy the 1 run ME 10+ bpc from a guy with 0 production skills and make their own ship by gathering the minerals?
Trade channel is spammed with BPC advertisements, this shouldnt be the case. Trade channel should be spammed with actual products, not bpcs. Bp copying allows people with no production backgroud or effort to make money and cripple the business of people with good production skills who have been focusing on manufacturing.
Thats my opinion. Feel free to state yours in a good manner (At least as good me, as i'm the scum of the universe ). -
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:47:00 -
[2]
This has been the case all along, did you just now realize this or did you just get bored spamming with the rest of them in the trade channel?
Convert Stations
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:47:00 -
[3]
I think BP copies won't be as productive with the introduction of tech II bp's and different methods of copying?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:49:00 -
[4]
I'm not into manufacturing (and I thought you weren't either) but still I can see how stupid bp copying is. So yeah I totally agree with you. __________ Capacitor research |
Roger Welco
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:49:00 -
[5]
welcome to the problem with tech 1 products... I been playing since day 1 and have tried to to move in the making and selling side of the game, but its taken so long now for tech 2 that there is no real money to be made in it amymore. most of the large corps make there own and the market is saturated with item selling at silly prices. There is still some items you can make isk at, but you have to watch the market very close to know when to make them. At least its a lot better now with limited runs, in the warly days the copies were unlimited..
There is one thing though, i have always thought that it was silly to be able to make items with little skills, and buying a BPC will save you the expense of the orgianl BP. But to make them with out a good skill rating, it costs you a lot in mins to do... and actually works out cheaper to buy the item of the market. So if ppl are still doing that with low skills, it really working in your favour. As there wasting isk...
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:53:00 -
[6]
Quote: This has been the case all along, did you just now realize this or did you just get bored spamming with the rest of them in the trade channel?
I've never spammed the trade channel with any sort of BPC trade. Go away troll. -
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 16:58:00 -
[7]
After you troll, again this is hardly news, what prompted this post?
I've yet to see a pirate propose anything that would favor general gameplay, only their own, I think I'm entitled to my mistrust.
Like pirate alts spamming the trade channel is unheard of...
Convert Stations
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:02:00 -
[8]
Viceroy is right, get rid of BPC
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:07:00 -
[9]
Quote: After you troll, again this is hardly news, what prompted this post?
I've yet to see a pirate propose anything that would favor general gameplay, only their own, I think I'm entitled to my mistrust.
Like pirate alts spamming the trade channel is unheard of...
This thread isnt about pirates and their motives, its about bpc copying. If you wish to know all about pirates, msg me ingame and i'll take the time to explain. I wont turn this thread into a pirate vs non-pirate flamefest though.
Thanks. -
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Amin
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Amin on 12/02/2004 17:12:32 There is obviously a problem with T1 bp copying and has already been duscussed at length. The main problem is as Viceroy says is u need zero skills to make them, but also the fact that cost nothing at all to produce (Apart from lab rent and time). Some of the bp added to the market recently have similar requirements to t2 bp, copying u need data sheets etc. I suppose they could change all t1 bp to have those requiements but i cant see how it would make any real difference.
Short of actually getting rid of blueprint copying, they should have there copy time increased dramatically, three maybe four times as long as it takes now. Also they need to reduce the max number of runs, 300 max for equipment is far too much, for example.
It was already mentioned in a dev chat but they dismissed the problem saying that t1 is open to all and for t2 they'll make bp copying harder.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator Caldari State Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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TerminusX
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:12:00 -
[11]
I agree with Veceroy that the BPC is a definite problem. I admit that I spam the channel to recover the cost of the original that I bought. The problem is a viscious circle has been created: to recover the cost of your original you must also sell (ie Xanadu etc) both ships and copies because the inexpense of copies has narrowed ship building profits too much. However, REMOVING is extreme. There needs to be an inbetween, such as a cost to produce a copy mineral wize, etc, or a limit.
Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die. |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:13:00 -
[12]
Yes I agree, blueprint copying should be an option to use when you cant risk to move the original bp for production, thus it should take much longer to copy a bp.
My suggestion is remove it completely! That'll be much much better. -
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:16:00 -
[13]
I'd like to suggest this whole thread be moved to the Idea Lab and the focus tilted towards making copying harder, as is the case with tech II prints, already solved it would seem.
Tech I went bad real fast and there's not really any way to repair it without being reactionary, hitting the emergency break throwing working features out the window and damaging gameplay in the long run of things.
This reaction if ever acted upon should have happened some 6 months ago when it was already evident that battleship blueprint holders were making a fortune doing essentially nothing.
The useful change would be in making the originals more scarse. Also seem to be the case with tech II.
This way everyone and their mother won't have every print to make copies off of and corporations still can issue these to their forward bases without losing the originals in the pirate blockade... Hmm, was that it, tired of only ever getting copies in the loot?
Convert Stations
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TerminusX
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:26:00 -
[14]
Good post Danton. Going forward with the new idea from Viceroy would work much better than trying to band-aid Tech 1. Longer to copy and mineral cost I think are good possibilities. Or perhaps elimination...maybe try it for awhile in tech 2? See what happens? You could always add copying later to tech 2 items.
Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die. |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:36:00 -
[15]
Medium Armor Repairer II is
Research copy time: 1,200,000
My gosh man that is great news. With science 5 it will only take 10days to make a 1 run copy. This item should sell for 500k isk. But for 10days of a research lab I could not justify a price less than 2 million. I will try and sell the original for 75 million. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:05:00 -
[16]
Easily added fixes, make number of copy runs dependant on skill, remove copies after last run.
Add to that, a feature where you need an added skill to manage the prints apart from the 'number of runs' skill that minimizes the risk of your damaging the original print in the process.
End result could be anything from taking more minerals to produce, making items with inferior quality or flat out destroying the print.
Convert Stations
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:36:00 -
[17]
Quote: Yes I agree, blueprint copying should be an option to use when you cant risk to move the original bp for production, thus it should take much longer to copy a bp.
My suggestion is remove it completely! That'll be much much better.
I can't possibly agree more. Or make BPC's cost something to make. Something that would offset the profit made as if using the original.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:00:00 -
[18]
I agree with Viceroy. BPCs have more or less taken over the economy.
There is almost no profit in manufacturing ships due to easy to purchase 1 run BPCs, churning out BPC after BPC nets more profit, faster than actually making and selling ships/modules. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Kaaii
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:22:00 -
[19]
I buy orginals, research them down
then make a few dozen copies and sell off the researched orginal.
I get my money back +, and have my own source of modules,missiles, ammo and what not..
Its the way to go really..
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:32:00 -
[20]
copies shouldnt be as good quality as the original is either. After all, what copy of anything can match an orignal? ------------------------------------------------ Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:40:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I've yet to see a pirate propose anything that would favor general gameplay, only their own,
Hehe, I am fairly sure 99% of changes peaple suggest are for their own benefit, else they wouldnt want changes.
It¦s just that pirates/PVP'rs want changes in areas that you might not be playing in.
But on topic, I think every original Blueprint should not be able to make more than 10 full run copies. Spawn of the Devil
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John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:44:00 -
[22]
The reason for copying bp's is because you can't trust another person in this game to honor a byom deal. Thers no way that I'm going to give all of minerals to another player and then have them keep the minerals and say too bad.
I will only by bpc's in order to build what i want.
If you get scammed ccp says too bad.
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Ataushu
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Posted - 2004.02.12 19:49:00 -
[23]
As I see it, blueprints are basically a recipe to build items, and can be copied. I think the best way to handle this is to take a page out of the real world. Example, many video games for consoles have copy protection. However people can over come this and still burn copys, however, they may only work a certain percentage of the time. My thought is, why not allow bp copys, but have them fail a certain percentage of the time. Perhaps somewhere between 25-50%. Just another idea, but yes, I can see that something should be done.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 20:06:00 -
[24]
I want the blueprint copies made harder to manufacture although I make a good deal of money on them myself as is.
I suggest changes that'll make the game more challenging, not ones that cater to my own situation right now.
Some people are all about control and dominating their surroundings, some about learnings from the changes in their surrounding and seeking new experiences. Not working the same ol' beaten path every day... How's that gate humming today?
Convert Stations
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.12 20:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: pooti on 12/02/2004 20:48:49
Quote:
Some people are all about control and dominating their surroundings, some about learnings from the changes in their surrounding and seeking new experiences. Not working the same ol' beaten path every day... How's that gate humming today?
Hey, good job with ill-informed assumptions there.
It's sad that we can't have a thread about gameplay stuff without this garbage.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.02.12 20:54:00 -
[26]
Take player made BPCs out. Add in BPCs to rats. Distribute from secure space rats frigate level BPCs to unsecure space rats having BS level BPCs. Just copies though.
Take unlimited run BPs out of the game. Welcome to farm.
Eves bloated anyway. Make people use all those odds and ends.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:04:00 -
[27]
How are those ill informed assumptions?
M0o isn't about anything else than constant ownage, whatever the hell that really is, can you tell me you don't spend your every moment in EVE obsessing over the old ni-kunni riddle of 'can you kick my ass?' That's all a ni-kunni wanna know.
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MrBinary
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:11:00 -
[28]
Edited by: MrBinary on 12/02/2004 22:22:38 "copies shouldnt be as good quality as the original is either. After all, what copy of anything can match an orignal?"
Um...it's a blueprint...perfect copies of blueprints are possible in the here and now...why in the distant future world of EVE would we be able to jet around in amazing ships capable of cloaking and interstelar travel...and not posess even basic photocopier skills?
Here's a just a general comment in regards to this topic though...
Alot of you more advanced players, and the "power players" seem to have forgot something over the course of time and the infinate posts made in regards to your perceived imbalances in the game. This game is also for the not so hard core player, and what I find in the many posts relating to so-called balance issues, is that they are always geared to the power players. I've seen many speak of buying bp's and bpc's and BS's like they were candy. For many of you on these boards, this may be the case...but I would lay my isk down that for the vast majority of those in this game, that would not be the case. For the vast majority in this game, getting isk or minerals together for a BS or a even a cruiser, is not easy nor is it quick.
These type posts about removing this or that from the game, or making this or that harder, ad-nauseum, seem to pop up literally every single day. Every day, some new hard core seasoned veteran spamming about something else that for him/her is now just too easy, or is an apparant travesty in the game and should be removed or whatever.
Just stop for a moment once in a while and try to remember that this game is already pretty d.am.n tough to get into, to learn, and to stick with for someone new. There is a lot to absorb and learn, not just with the way the actual game plays, but also the ba-zillion windows to learn to interpret and navigate through, the complex market system, the mods and how they interplay with other mods and your skills...but also with the whole political alliance end of the game... and more.
This game is real big in case some of you forgot on your way to the top.
Progression for most people in the game isn't a super quick or easy thing to accomplish...if it is or was for you, then instead of throwing that fact fact around like it applies to all, you should count your blessings that yours was an easier road than for most. Making an already very challenging game even harder just to suit a group of players that have powered their way to the top of the crowd would seem quite unreasonable and quite the stumbling block to retaining new players.
CCP caters to the hard core pvp crowd just fine...changes are constantly being made to try and improve upon that area of things. I'm not saying some of the suggestions that I have seen offered, would not be bad, I'm just saying that maybe while bantering ideas about, we could try and think about how those changes might affect the non-power player, the new player, or the casual player. I am sure that all of these groups are just as important to CCP, and should be to us as well, the players that log on all the time.
Anywho...just my 2cents worth. :)
BTW...if an isk is in relation to a dollar, pound or whatever...what is a cent called in the game? Anyone know?
Regards, MrBinary
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
ilisha amarr
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:38:00 -
[29]
Quote: Trade channel is spammed with BPC advertisements, this shouldnt be the case. Trade channel should be spammed with actual products, not bpcs.
In complete agreement with Viceroy. Shame about the market also, and all the BPs the agents hand out are just adding to the problem (imo)
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:49:00 -
[30]
Quote: The reason for copying bp's is because you can't trust another person in this game to honor a byom deal. Thers no way that I'm going to give all of minerals to another player and then have them keep the minerals and say too bad.
I will only by bpc's in order to build what i want.
If you get scammed ccp says too bad.
Dude how wrong is this... when i do byom i trade the minerals+isk for finished ship... no scamming at all. When i started this game on release i had heard that originals could only have 3 instances of copying performed on them, what happened to that?
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