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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mishi Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.11 23:43:00 -
[1]
Eve has successfully reached the limit of our current technologies that can or will be utilized by CCP at the price point they can afford to continue to beef up power and capability. This game does not make enough profit in a year to allow them to move into what would be the next level of hardware and capability needed, since it would require millions in infrastructure upgrades, etc. Also...CCP will not or cannot make changes to their use of Python, which is a dynamic coding system for sake of ease and speedānot quite ability or power. While a powerful and versatile language, it has MANY problems due to it being a "dynamic" code. Seems CCP opted for Python because its easier for their coders (during initial coding, but the dynamic typing kills you on capability, leaks and trying to solve issues after being launched), AND...it is free...which seems to fit right into CCP's price point.
Also, these developers, while making a wonderful game, can still be considered to be "amateurs" at what they do, meaning, they are more "gamers" then "coders", etc. Again...we see the lacking of funds to be able to move to the next level of qualified and experienced personnel needed, along with the hardware and software changes.
Why say all this? Well, whether its their ability, lack of the knowledge levels needed to change language, lack of funds, etc., it has definitely come to a point in proficient and enjoyable game-play within Eve to consider "sharding" as a means to create a better game experience.
When you realize that with the equipment, software, databases, etc., available to CCP at the price point they can afford, Eve cannot and will not get "better" in regards to lag, crashes, etc. If this were a "WoW" kinda experience where there is no "Loss" so to speak, where you just respawn, lose nothing and jump back into a meaningless battle, then the lag issues would be an almost non-issue. Add to this the lackluster and almost belligerent way nothing is being done about reimbursement for obvious issues caused by faulty hardware, software or game mechanics...we now have a game experience that is simply becoming an exercise in futility and providing various nerds their 15 min of fame via EveTV and the like.
Figure it out....either shard or divisional-ize the game. It's getting to the point where CCP simply screwing your customer base over for some nerdish ranking or notoriety in some magazine or web site (Oooo....we had 35k on at the same time...are you excited yet?!?!). Is the momentary delight and giddy feelings one gets from bragging about playing in a non-sharded game experience still worth it? Sorry to sound mean spirited, but its getting to be like watching a monkey try and stick square pegs in round holes a bit. |
chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: chrisreeves on 12/09/2007 00:01:46 no.
1st.
lock please. -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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General Killah
Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:08:00 -
[3]
Edited by: General Killah on 12/09/2007 00:10:15 Think he has a point...no need to troll what is obviously rhetorical.
Originally by: chrisreeves Edited by: chrisreeves on 12/09/2007 00:01:46 no.
1st.
lock please.
---------------------------------
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:10:00 -
[4]
I was "power replying" to the thread title. -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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General Killah
Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:11:00 -
[5]
Gotta love forum nerds. They feel so...accompished! |
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:18:00 -
[6]
No. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:33:00 -
[7]
No. It wasn't time last week, nor the week before that, nor the approximate 208 previous weeks this stupid question has been asked.
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Sarah McTeef
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:38:00 -
[8]
No, also please be sure to incinerate yourself in a large combustion reaction. |
DirtMigirt
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Posted - 2007.09.12 00:51:00 -
[9]
can you even back up any of your claims about what ccp can't/wont do? the OP sounds to me like hes assuming pretty much every reason he put forward for sharding. even if all that is true the single server approach is one of the things that makes eve unique, and frankly being unique is too rare a quality in a game these days. anyone with money can make a game with expensive servers and engines.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.09.12 01:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Avaricia No. It wasn't time last week, nor the week before that, nor the approximate 208 previous weeks this stupid question has been asked.
quoted for effect. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
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Sabe
Gallente Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:18:00 -
[11]
$15 per month, 30,0000 daily players (average)
$5,450,000 annual income (MINIMUM, thats based on a daily average of players, I imagine its more)
50 employee's making $50,000 per year each... $2.5m
leaves $3m a year for hardware upgrades and/or profit for the greedy owners...
who says they cannot afford some serious hardware?
I wont even bother line-item-vetoing the rest of OP's post
----- TROLL
One mans "flame" is another mans "constructive criticism". |
Mishi Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 02:25:31 Hehe....trolls out in force today.
Everything I said is simply one issue that keeps CCP from moving forward and solving problems...it is not the only answer, just one. I chat regularly with variuos people in the know and outside simply reducing killboard stats for the CS mentality crowd, there is no real negative side. It is truly one answer that would allow growth, would immediately double or more the capability of the existing infrastructure and cause very little migration from the game, outside the hardcore nerd crowd probably.
Like i said...its a very valid and very acceptable means to an end regarding the lag and other like problems that face us all in this game. And remember...it's just a game...not a life.
AND...there is ALOT more overhead then you mentioned in that quaint little sumation of CCP's income. I fear they have less than 1 million a year to spend on infrastructure, software, upgrades, etc. and if you ask any other MMOG designer...it is one of the BIGGEST reasons they shard. Lets be intelligent here...not just emotional divits. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:35:00 -
[13]
F.O.R.S.-I is already FrequentlyOffered********Suggestion.1 _
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Mishi Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:45:00 -
[14]
Well, outside the adult whining, why is it a bad suggestion? The pros far outweigh the negatives on this issue, unless it personally effects the player for some reason, like, if one is a killboard monger or something....
Originally by: Akita T F.O.R.S.-I is already FrequentlyOffered********Suggestion.1
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Sarah McTeef
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 12/09/2007 02:46:43
Originally by: Mishi Khan Well, outside the adult whining, why is it a bad suggestion? The pros far outweigh the negatives on this issue, unless it personally effects the player for some reason, like, if one is a killboard monger or something....
I'll make it simple. This is Eve. Eve has no shards. Having shards would make this !Eve. Clear?
Edit: ! means not for people that only speak english and not computer geek. |
Arcadia1701
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.09.12 02:50:00 -
[16]
Technology moves foward as the eve population grows. On a dev blog was them hinting at replaceing every server soon again, with even more kick ass gear. With quad core + hardwar out now with ram hitting the GHZ level , the costant server side progarmming and structure improvements, i dont see any reason to shard anything ever. My sig>
Post with your main, or don't post at all. |
Mishi Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:10:00 -
[17]
Again....why not? You're simply talking about some nerdish "qualification" or achievement that one can "tout" to like minded buddies. The game itself is "Eve," not simply the fact they don't shard. Not sharding was simply one of the directions that CCP wished to follow if possible...not some holy mantra. I haven't heard one intelligent reason why not to shard yet...kinda funny. Eve is already showing definite, serious issues in not being able to keep up with population growth. As a matter of fact, the devs have said that the limitations of the infrastructure is one definite reasons there isnt more population growth in this game, one that they hope to someday be able to fix. I never said there isn't equipment or solutions out there that would definitely make a non-sharded game for 100K+ players (accounts i should say) possible, just that CCP cannot afford to move to those solutions at this time. 100K player base vs. 6 million in WoW...should tell you something. And what's with all the malicious sounding responses...its just a game mates. Think some of you are getting religious about a game. I'm not dissing people's families or anything. |
zacuis
Great Big Research
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:19:00 -
[18]
its already sharded ever hear of eve china
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James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:24:00 -
[19]
Ok, idiots:
EVE is not one server. EVE is a cluster of many servers. Multiple clusters will not solve lag issues, that are related to many players being on the same individual server at any one time.
CCP will not shard the server because it will hurt the experience of the game, seriously hurt the PvP aspect, and will not actually do a damn thing to address underlying issues related to how individual processing of star systems is managed.
Sharding solves less then nothing.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:40:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/09/2007 03:42:04
EDIT: What James Duar said (damn simultaneous threads open)
Originally by: Mishi Khan Well, outside the adult whining, why is it a bad suggestion? The pros far outweigh the negatives on this issue
Because there is no "pro" side.
EVE is already "sharded" into nodes, which run from one to several systems. The problem is when too many people gather on a single node (or grid), while we still have no solution to running a single system (or grid) on multiple nodes.
By breaking down the cluster you are only delaying the inevitable. The solution (as, thanks <InsertDeityNameHere>) the CCP devs already have in mind and are working on is to increase the capacity of each individual node, and hopefully be able (eventually) to "share" a system or even a grid on multiple nodes. _
EVE GOLDEN RULES | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
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Mishi Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 03:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 03:49:09 So...you say idiots to what...make yourself feel better? Try it without the dissing...less nerdy and more approachable.
And I dont think you understand what sharding is mate. Eve China as the other guy said IS a shard...so all these arguments are kinda mute. Eve already is sharded. You are very wrong about the number of people playing not being responsible for much of the lag/issues. It's al about server load. All MMOGs are basiclly just databases and disply code instructing the game to calculate and display, not much more. Shard even one time and you cut your database and system pulls in about half to 1/3rd. Lets move past the "Eve Religion" a bit and just have fun. Save the heavy emotions and "passion" for things that really matter in life, imho.
Originally by: James Duar Ok, idiots:
EVE is not one server. EVE is a cluster of many servers. Multiple clusters will not solve lag issues, that are related to many players being on the same individual server at any one time.
CCP will not shard the server because it will hurt the experience of the game, seriously hurt the PvP aspect, and will not actually do a damn thing to address underlying issues related to how individual processing of star systems is managed.
Sharding solves less then nothing.
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TomParad0x
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mishi Khan Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 03:49:09 So...you say idiots to what...make yourself feel better? Try it without the dissing...less nerdy and more approachable.
And I dont think you understand what sharding is mate. Eve China as the other guy said IS a shard...so all these arguments are kinda mute. Eve already is sharded. You are very wrong about the number of people playing not being responsible for much of the lag/issues. It's al about server load. All MMOGs are basiclly just databases and disply code instructing the game to calculate and display, not much more. Shard even one time and you cut your database and system pulls in about half to 1/3rd. Lets move past the "Eve Religion" a bit and just have fun. Save the heavy emotions and "passion" for things that really matter in life, imho.
For one, EVE is EVE because it has 35k people on one server, the more people, the better the game play. The only spots that are really lagy are the spots in forge and around it.
What CCP needs to do is get the load spread out to different systems, people need a reason to go there or else they all cluster up in jita / the citadel / etc and lag them down. I am out in 0.0, I dont have any lag, I had none in gallente space.
Also, what would be the point of doing this? Do you plan on having them just split the nodes / servers they have up now into different clusters running different EVE servers? (IE: TQ / TQ2 / whatever). Would they be using the same database?
If so, what is the point? You would still have ~35,000 people on the same amount of hardware, and if they are running off the same database, then we arent solving a thing. It seems to me it would be quite costly to have to buy new hardware to actually implement this. I would rather them spend that money on increasing the capacity of the current nodes than buying new clusters / nodes to run new "shards".
Also, you appear to look down upon people coming to you with hostile words (Idiot / etc), yet you use "nerdy" in a sense that its something bad, something to be looked down upon - is there something wrong with some one being a nerd? Do you have a personal issue with nerds? If this is the case, you need to stop being a hypocrite and telling people to be less "dissing", because I feel your use of nerdy in most of your writing is "dissing" anyone who may be a nerd.
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HydroSan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:23:00 -
[23]
Wait for Infiniband/RDMA before you pass this verdict.
Also EVE will never be sharded because the EVE devs are way too attached to the concept of a single-shard MMO, and I agree with them, because the political arena is what makes this game fun. You can just follow the politics for months and take extended breaks from the game. If you sharded the server, you would destroy that dynamic.
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Dirty Worm
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.09.12 04:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mishi Khan Again....why not? You're simply talking about some nerdish "qualification" or achievement that one can "tout" to like minded buddies. The game itself is "Eve," not simply the fact they don't shard. Not sharding was simply one of the directions that CCP wished to follow if possible...not some holy mantra. I haven't heard one intelligent reason why not to shard yet...kinda funny. Blah...blah...blah...And what's with all the malicious sounding responses...its just a game mates. Think some of you are getting religious about a game. I'm not dissing people's families or anything.
Originally by: Mishi Khan Well, outside the adult whining, why is it a bad suggestion? The pros far outweigh the negatives on this issue, unless it personally effects the player for some reason, like, if one is a killboard monger or something.....
Originally by: Mishi Khan Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 03:49:09 So...you say idiots to what...make yourself feel better? Try it without the dissing...less nerdy and more approachable.
Lets move past the "Eve Religion" a bit and just have fun. Save the heavy emotions and "passion" for things that really matter in life, imho.
Originally by: Mishi Khan Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 02:25:31 Hehe....trolls out in force today.
Lets be intelligent here...not just emotional divits.
Anyone else notice a pattern here? Pot calling the kettle....what color was that? Oh yeah, BLACK.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.12 05:31:00 -
[25]
I always love when people bust out with the "facts". Or the Truthiness.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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James Duar
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: James Duar on 12/09/2007 06:06:48
Originally by: Mishi Khan Edited by: Mishi Khan on 12/09/2007 03:49:09 So...you say idiots to what...make yourself feel better? Try it without the dissing...less nerdy and more approachable.
And I dont think you understand what sharding is mate. Eve China as the other guy said IS a shard...so all these arguments are kinda mute. Eve already is sharded. You are very wrong about the number of people playing not being responsible for much of the lag/issues. It's al about server load. All MMOGs are basiclly just databases and disply code instructing the game to calculate and display, not much more. Shard even one time and you cut your database and system pulls in about half to 1/3rd. Lets move past the "Eve Religion" a bit and just have fun. Save the heavy emotions and "passion" for things that really matter in life, imho.
I say "idiots" because not only does this idea come up once a week, but in this case the justification for it (as evidenced by your post right here) is based on such a spectacularly flawed understanding of how the EVE cluster works, and the sources of lag within it.
In fact, the question I find myself asking is do you play the game at all? Because your understanding of lag in EVE defies even basic observations one might make during gameplay. At least read one of the dev blogs on the structure of Tranquility before you start talking about it.
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sabe $15 per month, 30,0000 daily players (average)
$5,450,000 annual income (MINIMUM, thats based on a daily average of players, I imagine its more)
50 employee's making $50,000 per year each... $2.5m
leaves $3m a year for hardware upgrades and/or profit for the greedy owners...
who says they cannot afford some serious hardware?
I wont even bother line-item-vetoing the rest of OP's post
Your so far off the actual amounts in both the amount of ccp employee's and their yearly income. Not that it matters, but ccp said themselves they have around 200k subscribers and I think they have at least 100 employee's.
Anyways I dont think the OP has any clue (at all) how the internal structure of eve works. Essentially eve is full of 'shards', each system runs on their own 'shard'. Well lets for the fun call it a node
You would still get large alliances fighting other large alliances on smaller servers (lets say you divide the game in 4 'shards' this wouldnt mean the fight in BGK would suddenly be 700 / 4, it would still be at 700 the rest of the space would just be a lot more empty). You dont solve any issues the game has with performance as the OP seems to forget the safety in numbers theory.
1000 people in jita has no effect on 1000 people in bgk. And no matter how you change the servers, at some point that will happen even on smaller servers. I mean, in dark age of camelot (Great game btw) we had like 1500-2000 people online during peak hours, yet during a relic raid we had over 400 people in the same zone. So unless you want to go 'that' low (2000 per 'shard') then no it wouldnt help the game one bit.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.12 11:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: James Duar
I say "idiots" because not only does this idea come up once a week, but in this case the justification for it (as evidenced by your post right here) is based on such a spectacularly flawed understanding of how the EVE cluster works, and the sources of lag within it.
In fact, the question I find myself asking is do you play the game at all? Because your understanding of lag in EVE defies even basic observations one might make during gameplay. At least read one of the dev blogs on the structure of Tranquility before you start talking about it.
Exactly.
Basically, the answer is NO. Sharding wouldn't solve lag, and it sure as hell would destroy a good part of EvE's charm.
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Calidor Droks
Caldari No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.12 11:36:00 -
[29]
The new GFX engine will solve most of the lag issues, which btw are mostly client side not server side. Moving the gfx proccesses from our CPU to our GPU.
Sharding Eve to multiple universes, which I think is what people are asking for is the most damaging thing CCP could ever do to our beloved Eve.
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Chinese Chick
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Posted - 2007.09.12 12:19:00 -
[30]
Sharded or not, EVE has much more to gameplay than WoW can ever have. EVE is not about how many people u can stick into 1 system, but about what a community as a whole can do with minimal intervention of gamemasters. Alliance Politics and the economy in EVE (for instance) are purely and solely run by the people that actively play the game.
Lag can be a problem, but lag was much worse before and it will get better over time. Wait and see... or go to WoW ;)
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