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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
minijack1
Virtual Warriors IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 00:32:00 -
[121] - Quote
LOL the thought of Arian Blade in a mining barge.
My thoughts on the matter. I would love to see improvments to the way mining is done, I unlike my corpie here, have mined, infact i sometimes mine while on PvP operations (dont tell the FC please). It would be so much better if there was a way of getting more out of what you do when mining.
The ideas Arian has put forward i like, though the drawbacks are there of not being able to watch the blet fo rats etc. but mining needs something like that, something to make pilots have to think, and also get more rewards for thinking.
Some additional ideas for the negative effects: Gas pocket in one of the asteroids, goes of like a smart bomb, could be shown by a realy low density patch on the rock. Bad ore that has a large volume and refines down to very little.
If mining became more interesting you might find me mining rather than killing miners. Though it will take quite a change to do that, killling indusrtial ships is so much fun. |
Elessa Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2012.01.26 01:02:00 -
[122] - Quote
Xenuchrist wrote:Elessa Enaka wrote:Janus Nightmare wrote:Oh! I had another thought.
So if I'm sitting in a belt and some Hulk comes along and starts mining the exact same rock I'm mining from, I get to shoot him. I think this would work for bots because every bot I've ever seen pays little attention to other miners and just starts mining the biggest rocks in the belt. So along comes a bot, unwittingly starts mining my rocks, and I get that gank-fitted Tornado I've got hiding in my Orca and pop his Hulk.
Now THAT would make mining more interesting and introduce a little extra risk to the profession.
Just a thought :) I like that idea a lot, make it just the same as can flipping while your mining lasers are active on the asteroid. If another member of your corp decides to mine the same asteroid as you, it's not a problem. However, when someone else comes along they get flagged just the same as if they had robbed your jetcan and become a legal target for anyone in your corp. If you leave the belt though and come back to them mining "your" asteroid, you're SOL. I do think that this would help with bots, I also think that there would be those who would exploit it just as there are those who canflip to provoke miners. Either way though, I think that the positives would outweigh the negatives. This could help a with a possible bot circumvention of the original proposition as well: Obstructing bots from simply following (perceived) non-bot players. In-game it could be justified as the rock being a claim (Klondike-style) belonging to the first miner.
Yeah, TBH, I never understood why there wasn't some form of "claim" system in place for miners. After all, each faction has a prospector certificate, though no other link whatsoever to prospecting (outside of perhaps, scanning for gravs) Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats.... |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
338
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Posted - 2012.01.26 01:06:00 -
[123] - Quote
Just give miners a new ship and they will be happy for a long time. More ships in EVE the better off everyone is. |
ThinWhite Duke
The Red Circle Inc.
1
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Posted - 2012.01.26 01:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
I would rather see mining become more like exploration, do away with the static belts and let miners search for flying comets that travel through systems. So you find it through some way ( probing maybe) , when on grid the comet is actually moving and not static. The trick then is to find out where the hotspots in the asteroid are akin to PI hotspots. Once you know where they are the actual mining will take a fraction of the time. But could maybe require that you manually fly the ship to keep up with the moving comet
In general make mining more about finding it, instead of doing something else while mining.
In general I see no real future in the current scheme of parking a mining boat and suck rocks, so let's make the finding interesting, and keep mining to a minimum.
Or maybe think in the lines of PI, setting up PI was ok, running PI is boring as hell. So make a sort minigame where miners set up a mining collony on the asteroid, and once completed it will suck it dry unattended for 1 hour after which you can pick up the ore. |
Stridsflygplan
Back Breaker Battalion Back Breaker Brigade
5
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Posted - 2012.01.26 02:50:00 -
[125] - Quote
I like it, you came up with ideas that CCP have not been thinking off. |
Roime
UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
140
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Posted - 2012.01.26 12:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
OP,
could you try and pass your ideas via the formal channels (Jita park or whatever it takes for this to reach CSM and CCP), some of the freshest ideas I've seen on the forums.
I once visioned that mining could work a bit like the PI scanning interface, you would rotate the asteroid in order to find hotspots & nuggets visually, and then target your lasers there for max yield. Anyway the final details of the "interactive minigame" of mining 2.0 are best left to the professionals :)
I just fully support anything that increases the human part of mining, and anything that makes mining more fun and profitable. The miners deserve some love!
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Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries Pandorum Invictus
189
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Posted - 2012.01.26 22:27:00 -
[127] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:Just give miners a new ship and they will be happy for a long time. More ships in EVE the better off everyone is.
Would much rather prefer them to fix the broken ships that already exist first, like the lolcurer. |
Stetson Eagle
ROC Academy The ROC
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 22:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
Good to get this into discussion! A few years back the same idea was suggested in the features & ideas forum. Mining could be improved by a mini-game and by rare loot.
The suggestion back then had the two combined: *The rare loot would refine into crystals used by mining lasers, providing immense boost to mining speed when used. *These crystals, by nature, would be fragile so that when spotted, they would require careful mining laser frequency and intensity juggling to aquire. Damaging the crystals by not finding the right laser calibration in time would either destroy the loot or provide worse quality crystals, which would expire faster when used. *An "officer spawn epic mining diamond" would have the potential to mine at quadruple speed for days on |
Karthwritte
Darthrin Storm Enterprise Drunken Capsuleers
24
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Posted - 2012.01.30 04:18:00 -
[129] - Quote
Stetson Eagle wrote:Good to get this into discussion! A few years back the same idea was suggested in the features & ideas forum. Mining could be improved by a mini-game and by rare loot.
The suggestion back then had the two combined: *The rare loot would refine into crystals used by mining lasers, providing immense boost to mining speed when used. *These crystals, by nature, would be fragile so that when spotted, they would require careful mining laser frequency and intensity juggling to aquire. Damaging the crystals by not finding the right laser calibration in time would either destroy the loot or provide worse quality crystals, which would expire faster when used. *An "officer spawn epic mining diamond" would have the potential to mine at quadruple speed for days on
The other one is *ahem* making the asteroids more bigger and use PI like tools to target a place with a good density of something and get there and start mining surfaces of the asteroid. And having layers inside those big asteroids so you start mining the surface and then you can mine a layer of the asteroid and then a deeper layer of the asteroid and possibly the biggest price could be the core of the asteroid. Look real life pictures of mines and you will get the sh!t I am talking |
Hyrath Rotineque
Twilight Astro Miners Vanguard Venture Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.01.31 02:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
Huh.. it would be nice to see a patch that was dedicated to industry for once. |
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Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
42
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Posted - 2012.02.03 01:37:00 -
[131] - Quote
ThinWhite Duke wrote:I would rather see mining become more like exploration, do away with the static belts and let miners search for flying comets that travel through systems. So you find it through some way ( probing maybe) , when on grid the comet is actually moving and not static. The trick then is to find out where the hotspots in the asteroid are akin to PI hotspots. Once you know where they are the actual mining will take a fraction of the time. But could maybe require that you manually fly the ship to keep up with the moving comet
In general make mining more about finding it, instead of doing something else while mining.
In general I see no real future in the current scheme of parking a mining boat and suck rocks, so let's make the finding interesting, and keep mining to a minimum.
Or maybe think in the lines of PI, setting up PI was ok, running PI is boring as hell. So make a sort minigame where miners set up a mining collony on the asteroid, and once completed it will suck it dry unattended for 1 hour after which you can pick up the ore. The problem is, it makes mining inaccessable for some people, and of course people hate minigames on these forums. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
303
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Posted - 2012.02.03 01:39:00 -
[132] - Quote
Kuroi Aurgnet wrote:decent idea, but if only 5% of the asteroids had any ores then only really advanced miners would ever get anything. All those people who have trained for their precious hulks would get all the minerals, and the newer players wouldnt have a chance.
There needs to be a BIT of a ladder to climb. Nothing wrong here. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
xxVastorxx
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.02.03 01:40:00 -
[133] - Quote
mullet nugget wrote:these are some really good ideas. however mining has been improved several times since the beginning. orcas, ore compression, etc.
that being said, the bots are THE main problem. it's f'ing ridiculous how lenient CCP is on these people. it's like they are more concerned with collecting the botter's monthly fees than pleasing the people who play the game to have fun.
^ This guy knows all about them bots EH? ShadowofXDeath and LegionOfXDeath are full of Bots.! |
Citizen Smif
Comply Or Die
69
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Posted - 2012.02.03 11:31:00 -
[134] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: Such drops would be rare, and there would be various levels of similar drops with varying degrees of probability, but the point is that the possibility would be there. An event like that would really stand out in a player's memory- it would be an EVENT. "Man, remember that time when we found that crazy 20 unit deposit of super-ultra-mega-compressed-hyper-density-quantum-tritanium?! IT WAS AWESOME! I'M RICH!!!" <<<< That my friends is what is missing from mining.
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: IT WAS AWESOME!
You miners really are a different species to what I belong to. You should all be marginalised and made our pets, you wouldn't even notice it considering your love of menial labour. I'll toss you a bone every so often to keep you entertained but dont get me wrong.. You'll be required to wear a gimp suit and live in a cage in my basement when you're not mining. |
Okan Caldari
Stinger Corporation
5
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Posted - 2012.02.03 11:52:00 -
[135] - Quote
Excellent post! I was mining back in 2004, and I held on for quite a while, but eventually it just got boring and non-competitive versus other ways of making isk. Pretty much all of your suggestions make a hell of a lot of sense, and your rather elegant solution for nerfing bots is brilliant.
I also agree that mining should be the basis of all production, and not be in competition with a magical mineral faucet tied into mission running.
Here's hoping that CCP will read and listen (and eventually implement). |
Wacktopia
Noir.
159
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Posted - 2012.02.03 11:52:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:What if 95% of the ore in a belt were concentrated in 5% of the asteroids? Same yield per belt, same time taken to mine the minerals etc., but the difference is that for every rock that has minerals in it, there are 9 that don't.The human operator could pick out the rocks with the minerals in them because say, all the rocks had a spin rate, generated in a random direction and axis, but the mineral-laden rocks have a spin rate that is 50% faster than barren rocks. Or maybe mineral laden rocks have more "gold flecks" in the texture, maybe 25% more, or the gold flecks are in a more veined pattern than on the other barren rocks.
This, or something like it, is actually a very good suggestion.
(Also, 5%:95% is 1:20 not 1:10 ) Apparently we're getting censored now. |
Erisia Malaclypse
The Discordian Echo
0
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Posted - 2012.02.03 13:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:In the 7+ years I've played this game, I think I might have mined maybe twice. Max. It was not for me. That being said, mining is one of the most important and fundamental aspects of Eve and it has never been improved upon since the start of the game.
I stopped reading here since the OP appears to be lacking in knowledge about stuff like, oh you know, actual changes that have happened to mining in the game since it started...
I suggest taking up the nose flute as a more rewarding way to aggrandisement. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
380
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Posted - 2012.02.03 13:18:00 -
[138] - Quote
Quote:Mining is also the foundation upon which all production is based and is the key logistical resource that should be managed to ensure winning any large scale conflict.
This is why mining will never get fixed. Could you imagine how expensive a ship would be if CCP did as you suggested? Most people in HS would still be flying their rookie ships and would do so until the bulkheads failed.
I think CCP's inaction on mining for the past......oh since game conception....speaks volumes. Skill training is a big enough deterrent for many gamers. If they had to spend 6mos saving up enough isk to fly a ship they spent the last 2 months training for, how long do you suppose it would be until the game just died?
I agree, something has to be done for mining to make it more interesting and to deter botting but, what that is, IDK. It's going to require something a bit more sophisticated than decreasing the availability of minerals.
Getting rid of local in null would deter botting, at least the 23/7 multi-box completely AFK variety where people make billions of isk never having sat at their computers for the past week. At least with no local the botters would have to have a network of real people monitoring the system's entrances. That's something. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
IsTheOpOver
8
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Posted - 2012.02.03 14:52:00 -
[139] - Quote
Quote: In the 7+ years I've played this game, I think I might have mined maybe twice. Max.
...stuff about what to change...
Hmm well I mine as a primary activity in eve over the last 6 years and enjoy the time I get between cycles to do other things, inside and outside of the game. I like mining the way it is. *SHOCKER*
But yeah lets have someone who's mined 2 times in 7 years tell us how it should be
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Dunbar Hulan
The Flaming Sideburn's Art of War Alliance
66
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Posted - 2012.02.03 15:02:00 -
[140] - Quote
Dear Miners,
Greetings from my country, Gallente. And by God's grace this is a warm embrace of a lifetime and mutually beneficial relationship between us, hence my writing you.
Dr. Dunbar Hulan is my name. Special Adviser on Ice Mining to the Gallente Head of State and presently, Chairman of the Contract Review Panel (C.R.P) appointed by the Gallente administration, with the mandate to re-evaluate, scrutinize, approve and recommend for payment all previously awarded and executed contracts for the Ice Mining Fund (I. M..F).I want to award you exclusive ice mining rights in Gallente.
You were introduced to me by a trusted contact in the Gallente Ministry of Foreign Trade Mission to act fast by helping me and my colleagues by transfering the sum of 25.5M ISK (Twenty Five Million, Five Hundred Thousand ISK to us. You must treat this letter with utmost confidentiality and trust. We cannot afford to toy with this rare opportunity of a lifetime. It may interest you to know that this is no Scam or fairy tale. we urgently need your assistance to send this isk to us.
Dear brother, all modalities for the successful transfer of this fund including legal and administrative requirements in Gallente as well as that of Inter Faction Arbitration has been worked out. We hope to conclude this transaction within ten (10) days once you open communication with me to furnish me your willingness needed for easy transfer of the fund: God willing brother, we can work out this transaction fast for all of us.
This is going to be my first draft to the miners , should get a few takers :)
Seriously though, I like the OP's idea, He/should strat the process of getting it onto the next CSM agenda. -áThe Sideburns- Always Outnumbered- Never Outgunned. Manchester United - Paul Scholes= Genius |
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5p4c3 M4n
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 15:22:00 -
[141] - Quote
mullet nugget wrote:
that being said, the 'few huge 0.0 alliances' are THE main problem. it's f'ing ridiculous how lenient CCP is on these people. it's like they are more concerned with collecting the 'few huge 0.0 alliances' monthly fees than pleasing the people who play the game to have fun.
Fixed it for ya!! |
5p4c3 M4n
Perkone Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.02.03 15:26:00 -
[142] - Quote
Also eliminate moon goo. Make ALL ships be built from minerals that can only be obtained through mining ore from a belt or a site "belt".
This would make carebears more important to 0.0 alliances instead of just their whipping posts.
And no whining about how ship prices would skyrocket... mine your own ore and build your own ships?? duh..
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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
356
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Posted - 2012.02.04 05:00:00 -
[143] - Quote
IsTheOpOver wrote:Quote: In the 7+ years I've played this game, I think I might have mined maybe twice. Max.
...stuff about what to change...
Hmm well I mine as a primary activity in eve over the last 6 years and enjoy the time I get between cycles to do other things, inside and outside of the game. I like mining the way it is. *SHOCKER* But yeah lets have someone who's mined 2 times in 7 years tell us how it should be
I guess there's always one in the crowd... go troll elsewhere.
I'm a pirate in a pirate's body. -á Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á-á-áMining, reloaded.
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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
358
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Posted - 2012.02.04 05:05:00 -
[144] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Quote:Mining is also the foundation upon which all production is based and is the key logistical resource that should be managed to ensure winning any large scale conflict. This is why mining will never get fixed. Could you imagine how expensive a ship would be if CCP did as you suggested? Most people in HS would still be flying their rookie ships and would do so until the bulkheads failed. I think CCP's inaction on mining for the past......oh since game conception....speaks volumes. Skill training is a big enough deterrent for many gamers. If they had to spend 6mos saving up enough isk to fly a ship they spent the last 2 months training for, how long do you suppose it would be until the game just died? I agree, something has to be done for mining to make it more interesting and to deter botting but, what that is, IDK. It's going to require something a bit more sophisticated than decreasing the availability of minerals. Getting rid of local in null would deter botting, at least the 23/7 multi-box completely AFK variety where people make billions of isk never having sat at their computers for the past week. At least with no local the botters would have to have a network of real people monitoring the system's entrances. That's something.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind expensive ships. It would be the same for everyone, which is just fine. I fly ultra expensive ships simply because I'm so successful at PVP that I can live off of my kills and ransoms. Very few players in Eve can do this, most everyone has the idea that pirates have a carebear alt account to produce ISK so that they can PVP. I'm sure most do, but I've never been good at grinding crappy PVE content for ISK.
Anyway, I just don't think it would be a bad thing. I think we would see more value placed on T1 ships and named modules etc., which is a good thing. I'm a pirate in a pirate's body. -á Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á-á-áMining, reloaded.
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Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression
232
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Posted - 2012.02.04 05:08:00 -
[145] - Quote
I started out as a miner, and i have to say, it is very boring and the entire gameplay style just begs for botting.
I mean, you sit there, dragging a cargo full of rocks into your partner's orca once every 3 minutes. Repeat. Every day for months. You've got to be a pinhead to NOT consider macro'ing that bordom away. (and a pinhead for indeed macro'ing as well!)
Mining is, and has been forever, a very bad gameplay mechanic. Its not FUN in any sense of the word. Its simply a chore that needs to be done in order to get your space gold.
It should take work to earn money but it should have some sort of entertainment value, other then 3 minute laser cycles and drag/dropping rocks from one box to the other
The real problem is: What do you replace the mechanic with? Nobody has yet come up with a good solution. Mining needs to be in the game, in some form. Suggestions like minigames wont ever work, people play MMO's for its MMO content, not for its Bejeweld/Tetris style minigames.
And for the most part, i doubt people would even enjoy the minigame. It would just be another turn in the painful knot that is mining, and i think most people would just prefer the boring current implementation over that.
Someone needs to come up with a GOOD replacement for the mechanic, and nobody has, yet |
SigmaPi
Valkyr Industries Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 05:15:00 -
[146] - Quote
I didn't have time to read this whole thing, but pretty quality OP and good follow up ideas. I started this game as an industrialist (and to be honest I still am to some degree) but it's just no where near as rewarding as piew. I'd love for the devs to read this. |
IsTheOpOver
13
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Posted - 2012.02.04 15:35:00 -
[147] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: I guess there's always one in the crowd... go troll elsewhere.
What? One who's mined more than twice in 7 years? Yeah I guess I'll have to be the voice of reason.
I like also how when someone disagrees with you with your epic plan to "save mining" then they are a troll. That's your answer when you can't just blow someone up that calls you out for talking out your ass.
Use some of your mad pvp skills to blow up some miners... like a boss!
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Heimer
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.02.04 17:05:00 -
[148] - Quote
Mining is fine and fun the way it is -- if you're intelligent about it. The reduction of other mineral streams is coming, which will make it more lucrative (and lucrative, for me, is fun).
So mining has botters. Well, many parts of the game have botters. Luckily, mining botters pretty much have to go to static belts to do their dirty work.
This allows enterprising people to hunt them easily, and impact their numbers. (Refer to the current threads in Crime & Punishment -- that fellow from IEEE, and whereever Smodab Ongalot posted his thread about his personal war on bots. Impressive killboard there. Multiple hundreds of exhumers dead, *each month*)
The recent buffs to destroyers, to hybrid weapons, and the introduction of the tier 3 battlecruisers make bot hunting easier. (Somewhere Buck Futz's alt posted extolling the effectiveness of the tier3 BCs against miners, and his corp's killboard is filled with his solo kills and his mates' kills from smartbombing clusters of miners.)
They aren't the only players hunting.
I do find it hilarious that someone who has mined twice in his eve career is tryign to 'fix' mining. Real players do mine, and I'd go so far as to say that if you are ignorant about mining, then most changes you propose will probably ruin mining for the at-the-keyboard players who mine.
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Sicyon
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.02.04 17:46:00 -
[149] - Quote
Being a miner myself I like the idea of having some sort of "jackpot reward" while mining. It would make for some better entertainment while mining. Maybe add some meta3/meta4 BPC in roids that you recive when you mine the whole astroid.
Would be fun to see messages while you mine: "Your Modulated Strip Miner II stumbled upon an old blueprint that has been captured by the astroid in deep space a long long time ago. The blueprint is severly damaged but it does seem to be possible to fabricate at least a few rare units before it is fully destroyed"
As for all sorts of visual effects as bot deterence measures, it would probaly destroy the game for me as i'm color blind. Trying to see different colors/veins/graphic anomalies on astroids is just not possible for me. Not sure if this is the way to go. To deter botting you are making mining harder/more of a challange or whatever measure is persued. The real solotion would be a more aggressive and active policy by CCP with specialized software and DEV-teams active trying to hunt down and ban IP and people (not just accounts) who where caught. |
Captain Sunnymuffins
Jita Customs and Excise
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 18:10:00 -
[150] - Quote
Well speaking as a dirty scumbag who likes to blow things up just for the hell of it, I have to say this is actually a pretty reasonable idea to revive the mining profession ( and I don't think anyone can argue that it really does need to be addressed at this point).
The economy will probably suffer more than you are estimating, though, considering that, if CSM are correct, about 70% of minerals coming from drones: losing both that and the bunk-grade mod sources of minerals would be a major hit to supply and it would take considerable time for the players to adjust. Of course it would adjust eventually as these things tend to.
Not so sure about the BPC's spawning. Sounds like a load of extra junk being added to the game. Personally I would trash them all. An alternative would be to increase regular rat bounties, make loot drops less frequent and restrict them to meta 1-3 items, thus forcing meta 0 items to be produced through manufacturing.
An increase in bounties over-all will have dire consequences for inflation which is already careering out of control. We need more ISK sinks, so why can't mining barges consume fuel in order to operate? Until an alternative ISK sink is developed, this fuel could be supplied by NPC's. This would not affect a miner's profits since they are the only source of minerals in the first place - they just add the cost to selling price.
Nice idea with defining the asteroids. Not fussy on the spin idea. Texture, yes.
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