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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.13 10:42:00 -
[1]
Its pretty clear that, while improving, there's still huge amounts of server lag when a system goes above 250 people and fighting occurs.
While this might only affect a small population of the game it has a huge effect on alliance warfare. As brought up in this CAOD thread: Lag and the battles it wins
More often the deciding factor of a large fight is determined by lag and the experience either side has with lag.
Lag issues range from failing to load a grid for minutes on end (my last max was 30 minutes with 550 in local), desyncs (though I do think they tend to correct themselves better these days) and targeting / module lag (going upwards of 5 minutes).
Systems literally get lost / conquered due to lag and the inability to attack or defend (or willingness due to lag).
I'm not sure if others feel the same but I would personally like a dev blog post that goes into some of the details about the current (server side) lag issues. What are the hurdles to overcome, have issues been identified, and what (if there are any) is the status of possible fixes and/or improvements on server performance.
We know your working on it, we know client side issues should get resolved or at least improved a lot in november with the release of trinity 2. But if the server still cant handle it, then solving client issues isnt going to help much.
Please note this is in no way shape or form a whine and is not intended to be a whine either. Its amazing that the server can handle 700+ people in a system be it with issues etc. And I know it probably only affects 5% of the eve population, but this 5% in its turn has a much larger effect on alliances, etc.
But I myself would really like to read CCP's thoughts about it and get a status update on it.
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ZEUUL
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.13 10:46:00 -
[2]
Super idea, it may ease pressure on the boffins if we all knew how difficult a match they are playing. I for one see them as gods leading the way and setting the standards for many to follow.
The issue is we know little of what they are doing to hold this baby together. are they really using chewing gum and elastic bands these days?
Lag/Server dev blog please....unless CCP are freaking cowards at saying that they just cannot do it? ..........................
WAR ON HUMANITY : WHO CARES RIGHT? |
Cornucopian
Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.13 10:54:00 -
[3]
the thing is that boffins should get the ok from upper level management to spend far more resources on this problem than is currently done.
this is not happening, since lag has been an isuue since the start of this beta game. Also eve grows so fast that every time the boffins do something, it's already obsolote after they have fixed the bugs.
all the answers your are going to get are: we are working on infiniband. this will move a single system to multiple CPU cores when needed, keeping up performance.
Now all CCP needs to do is fix a ****load of bugs and rework the entire servercode. All in all, in about 10 years, if eve doesnt fare TOO well on the PCU side, we should see something resembling a real game, and not a beta. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.13 11:13:00 -
[4]
Well if I have to give credit for anything CCP does, I have to give credit for how open they are about their game and its development.
They (usually) dont shy away from addressing issues with their customers (us), and I hope they wont in this case.
I do think that most of us know it wont be a magic fix and suddenly we can have 2000 vs 2000 fights. Anyways, lets see if we can get an (un)official dev response
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:05:00 -
[5]
And another battle won due to lag:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=595360&page=2
From what I can gather at least 11 dreads and 1 carrier died, of which (from what I read on various boards) a grand total of 0 actually even SAW they died. To give you a run down, thats 23 billion isk blown up (assuming some had insurance, add some mods, etc).
In all fairness, this looks like the CCP elephant, they know its there but no one in CCP wants to talk about it.
I will update this post each time I read about a possible epic fight which got utterly and completely destroyed by lag. ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:57:00 -
[6]
They obviously know it exists. And what exactly would you like them to say besides the hardware upgrades they have mentioned?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt They obviously know it exists. And what exactly would you like them to say besides the hardware upgrades they have mentioned?
What they plan to do to fix it. It is going on 6 months now of constant problems. I am sure I am not alone when I say I am getting extremely sick of it.
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:02:00 -
[8]
I for one wouldn't mind a more in-depth explanation of some of these planned hardware changes, such as ifniniband. It's always nice to get ya' geek on with some hardware stats, and I would quite like to hear an explanation of what their plans for the changes are, from their side of things. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
Revy Valentine
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:38:00 -
[9]
According to CCP, all lag is player side. Remember this.
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Sarah McTeef
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:46:00 -
[10]
CCP uses far too much black magic on the server side to ever publicly disclose their methods in a dev blog. Doing so may even open them up to prosecution for war crimes. I keep hearing that hamsters are involved, and I'd be willing to wager they figure in as a sacrifice to an evil computing god or daemon.
This type of information is kept a close secret, buried under all the other skeletons at the very back of the closet. |
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Lord Matrix
Department of War
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Posted - 2007.09.15 00:29:00 -
[11]
There has already been a Dev blog regarding this.
Server-side lag will be addressed in February/March 2008 when Tranquility will become a proper supercomputer (each solarsystem having the ability to run on multiple physical machines).
There is NOTHING they can do before this. What WE CAN DO is wait patiently.
------------------------------------------------------------------ What good have you done for the EVE community today? |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.17 07:54:00 -
[12]
bump for great justice
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.17 08:24:00 -
[13]
Back when i was playing in 2003 most fleetbattles where laggy as hell as well. And then most fleetbattles where 100vs100 tops (even the big SA vs CA wars only went above that on occasion).
So the game has improved, 100 vs 100 doesn't lag you to death anymore but instead 200vs400 does. If eve would support 500vs500 alliances would just bring 800 each.
Hopefully the estimated release of february will somewhat solve these issues, but don't expect miracles.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.17 08:58:00 -
[14]
Shameless bump.
And while I totally agree with the fact that alliances will keep bringing more and more people as the server allows it. I'm still wondering about CCP's views on this.
Its clear more and more battles are reaching the limits of the current server. Look at 0oy-, that system was clearly defended by lag, not by the defenders in the system. The question for me is, would the defenders have had the same amount of kills with the same amount of losses if the attackers would actually have been able to do something?
Just to repeat myself again, more and more fights are reaching the limits of both the client (hopefully solved in november) and the server. I would love to know what CCP is doing (beyond some bit of hardware) to combat the lag on the server.
Because in all honesty, I love 20 new ships but those 20 are useless if we cant use them to defend our space (or try to take hostile space). ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.17 14:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tzrailasa on 17/09/2007 14:23:12
Originally by: Lord Matrix Server-side lag will be addressed in February/March 2008 when Tranquility will become a proper supercomputer (each solarsystem having the ability to run on multiple physical machines).
There is NOTHING they can do before this. What WE CAN DO is wait patiently.
Depending on how they implement this, it may or may not solve/improve matters.
If it's only solar systems that can run on multiple nodes, but not individual grids, we're nowhere as far as PvP is concerned, though Jita and mission systems might be improved vastly (not that I give a damn about that).
The major part of the load on nodes which host combat is due to three things: 1. Session changes, ie. ships entering/leaving the grid causing an update to be sent to each ship on grid. 2. Repeated weapon activations. Each weapon active requires CPU time every 'RoF' seconds to calculate distance to target, transversal velocity, tracking, hit randomness, resists, result of the above, and sending that to the involved parties (plus gang members). 3. Masses of player actions. When lagged, most players spam their buttons, causing massive amounts of actions being sent to the server.
Of those I belive #2 and #3 are the worst 'offenders'....
If all this will still be handled by one node handling that grid, we're no better off than today! If CCP can manage to get this split between nodes, we may see improvements. Note that this is in no way a simple endeavour (and I'm probably understating this by several 1000%..).
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.17 14:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tzrailasa If CCP can manage to get this split between nodes, we may see improvements. Note that this is in no way a simple endeavour (and I'm probably understating this by several 1000%..).
This, might cause even more lag. Because to get the data from one grid, you need to load from two to who knows what diffrent servers... Tough the overhead might be small, they need to sync constantly, send over data, etc. What might be possible tough, is getting the grid where the battle occurs, disconnected from the system. Lag will be horrible if everyone is at one spot, spread out, lag will be better, and people off grid will have near to no lag at all. But then again, i'm not a CCP employee, and i don't know much about the cluster and how it works, so i might be all wrong.
Sign my sig |
Tzrailasa
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.17 14:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Originally by: Tzrailasa If CCP can manage to get this split between nodes, we may see improvements. Note that this is in no way a simple endeavour (and I'm probably understating this by several 1000%..).
This, might cause even more lag. Because to get the data from one grid, you need to load from two to who knows what diffrent servers... Tough the overhead might be small, they need to sync constantly, send over data, etc.
...which was what I meant by:
Originally by: Tzrailasa (and I'm probably understating this by several 1000%..).
My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance. |
Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.24 08:38:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Barthezz on 24/09/2007 08:38:58 As I said in this thread, I'll bump it when a battle is won again by lag, here's one:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=600550
The fight in ZID, loads of people complaining overview didnt load or didnt show everyone. Two motherships crashing to the desktop and one of them dieing on reconnect. In addition to this 10 carriers died and 8 dreads. (could be off a bit on the numbers here)
Mad props (again) for RSF jumping into the McBob camp, sadly enough the servers couldnt handle it. ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.24 08:43:00 -
[19]
A lot has been done already, back when i started my break 2 or 3 years ago the servers could hardly handle the CA vs SA war and those fights generally had less then 150 people fighting.
The problem is if the servers can handle 200 vs 400 the the alliances will just bring 500 vs 700 or whatever.
So unfortunatly I don't think the lag will ever be gone entirely.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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