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Curzon Dax
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:42:00 -
[1]
Having seen a lot of discussion around lately about motherships being solowtfpwnmobiles in lowsec, and some suggested changes like:
-Let gates have warp scrambling capability on ships with a global criminal flag.
-Disallow supercapital ships in lowsec.
-Other noteworthy ideas....
Removing EW invulnerability from supercapitals would let them get tackled by a single ship in lowsec, which isn't a good idea either...how about this?
------- Revelations 2.3 Patch Notes
Motherships are no longer invulnerable to all forms of EW. They now have a special bonus: +15 to Warp Strength.
/discuss
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:44:00 -
[2]
I still think that a good idea would be a scrambling module that can only be fitted on a Dictor (or possibly the coming Cruiser-Dictor), that can warp scram them.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Verone
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Curzon Dax Having seen a lot of discussion around lately about motherships being solowtfpwnmobiles in lowsec, and some suggested changes like:
-Let gates have warp scrambling capability on ships with a global criminal flag.
That would completely destroy roving lowsec pirate gangs that move around sentry flagged.
Stupid idea to be honest.
As for removing the ability to be immune to EW, i'm all for that.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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Alpine 69
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:51:00 -
[4]
Dissalowing Supercapitals in lowsec would require them to make a detour through about 10 hostile nullsec regions evertime they had to be moved to the other side of eve 0.0 space.
The big advantage of these ships is their mobility, that's what most of the people get them for. So nerfing that would pretty much over-nerf the ships.
Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 From her? You're on. -Rauth |
Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:57:00 -
[5]
Remove the ewar immunity..
Adjust their tackle points or whatever you call them so it would require something like 4 dedicated interdictors or a total of 8 successful warp scrams to hold it down (outside of the moms smartbomb range) ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 19:57:00 -
[6]
tbh i'm not sure if they need nurfing any more than they allready are, sure a very few people use them to smartbomb camp lowsec gates, and people don't like that because they are untouchable, but then...
...They cost 25b-ish, so thats about 15-20 carriers worth.
I think if one corp sat camping a lowsec gate with 15-20 carriers people would call that overpowered too, and they would have at least 10 times the firepower.
The real issue is that in lowsec they are a solo-pwnmobil, so how do you make a ship that is a solopwnmobil in lowsec more vunerable without completeley nurfing it in 0.0?
I actuley don't think you can, so unless someone comes up with an absoluteley genious idea then i'd say leave em as they are.
allthough... what if lowsec stargates themselfs had a 7500m warp scramber that could cut through EW invunerbility? fix's the smartbomb problem pritty easy... nah, then pirates would whine for makeing gatecamping piracy more difficult. again its a catch 22 - fix one thing, ruin anouther. -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alski tbh i'm not sure if they need nurfing any more than they allready are, sure a very few people use them to smartbomb camp lowsec gates, and people don't like that because they are untouchable, but then...
...They cost 25b-ish, so thats about 15-20 carriers worth.
Repeat with me: "Enough ISK should not make one invincible." "Enough ISK should not make one invincible."
----------------------------- Not an alt. And proud of it.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zen Guerrilla
Originally by: Alski tbh i'm not sure if they need nurfing any more than they allready are, sure a very few people use them to smartbomb camp lowsec gates, and people don't like that because they are untouchable, but then...
...They cost 25b-ish, so thats about 15-20 carriers worth.
Repeat with me: "Enough ISK should not make one invincible." "Enough ISK should not make one invincible."
Repeat after me: "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is" "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is"
oooo look at me, i can use rolley eyes emote too!
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(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alski Repeat after me: "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is" "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is"
oooo look at me, i can use rolley eyes emote too!
Only if you don't count T2 at all.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:10:00 -
[10]
But it shouldnt make you completely unkillable. And that's exactly the point. There's literally no chance to take such ship down in lowsec. That's the whole issue.
I don't understand why some people just won't see the problem here. ----------------------------- Not an alt. And proud of it.
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Illyria Ambri
RennTech
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zen Guerrilla But it shouldnt make you completely unkillable. And that's exactly the point. There's literally no chance to take such ship down in lowsec. That's the whole issue.
I don't understand why some people just won't see the problem here.
Cause they want or own a solopwnmobile ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Here come the Drums!! - The Master |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:14:00 -
[12]
There was a good idea I heard way way back that really appealed to me, so it bears repeating here:
Capital Warp Scramble modules. Either only equippable by Dreadnoughts (Dreads always need more "capital to capital warfare" boosts, bless their POS plagued hearts), or equippable by any Capitals. What you do, is you give each of these modules a 1000 point scramble ability (say). At the same time, you remove motherships' and titans' immunity to scrambling, and replace it with a value such as 10050 and 20050 respectively. That way, in order to scramble a mothership, you only need 11 capital scramblers to do the trick, and the staying power to keep them alive. The extra 50, by the by, is to stop non-capital scramblers from tipping the balance.
Numbers are of course all pulled out my ass. Balancing pending.
but anyway, it'd mean that a Mothership is still pretty darned hard to catch in low sec, unless someone with a reasonable sized capital fleet turns up to bust them. And tbh, a decent sized fleet of specially set up capitals should be a threat to any camp, regardless of ships. Nothing should be flat out immune, regardless of high price. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
agent apple
Applied Eugenics Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: agent apple on 14/09/2007 20:20:35 Moms should keep their scrambling immunity however, like several other mods they should be disabled in low sec.
[Notify]The system you are entering is low security space. Concord regulations prevent warp core reinforcement. Do you wish to continue?
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zen Guerrilla But it shouldnt make you completely unkillable. And that's exactly the point. There's literally no chance to take such ship down in lowsec. That's the whole issue.
I don't understand why some people just won't see the problem here.
Probably because there are so very very few of them that actually cause a problem.
But assuming we're not just talking of nurfing them cos of one smartbombing killmail w****, and more the basic principle of supercaps being unscramable (note I didn’t say “unkillable”) in empire, then I very much doubt anyone is going to come up with a solution that doesn’t completely nurf them for use in 0.0
15 points of warp scram immunity? What the hell is 15 points in 0.0? that’s not even a decent roaming gang for most alliances.
how about 35 points? well then you'd have a hell a time trying to count how many people in your gang have a warp scram fitted, and just incourages massive blobing... yay... more blobs...
*shrugs*
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(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Patch86 There was a good idea I heard way way back that really appealed to me, so it bears repeating here:
Capital Warp Scramble modules. Either only equippable by Dreadnoughts (Dreads always need more "capital to capital warfare" boosts, bless their POS plagued hearts), or equippable by any Capitals. What you do, is you give each of these modules a 1000 point scramble ability (say). At the same time, you remove motherships' and titans' immunity to scrambling, and replace it with a value such as 10050 and 20050 respectively. That way, in order to scramble a mothership, you only need 11 capital scramblers to do the trick, and the staying power to keep them alive. The extra 50, by the by, is to stop non-capital scramblers from tipping the balance.
Numbers are of course all pulled out my ass. Balancing pending.
but anyway, it'd mean that a Mothership is still pretty darned hard to catch in low sec, unless someone with a reasonable sized capital fleet turns up to bust them. And tbh, a decent sized fleet of specially set up capitals should be a threat to any camp, regardless of ships. Nothing should be flat out immune, regardless of high price.
Ok i retract my statement about doubting anyone would have a decent idea, but then Patch86 is excluded from any such statements anyway *hugs* -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Stuart Price
Caldari Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:33:00 -
[16]
Here's how I think it's gonna work:
1. Heavy Interdictors put into game. Either as a t2 cruiser or a t2 bc on the tier 2 hull. 2. HI's (as they will no doubt be abbreviated) will get to use a module that can scramble a capship. 3. They will also look very cool and be absurdly expensive. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Curzon Dax
The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:56:00 -
[17]
Guess what I'm trying to say is that its not so much about what it takes to lock down a supercapital, just the ability for it to happen.
If it takes 5 dreadnoughts with capital scramblers to prevent a mothership from being a solopwnmobile, so be it. A T2 interdictor, that works too.
Its the idea that there is a counter to a lowsec gatecamping mothership. That there exists a strategy to take it down. I have no doubt that the same people who supported Titans only being killable by flagging them while logging / metagaming / etc will show up and point out that a carefully constructed super fleet of neutralizing battleships, together with an army of people spread out in adjoining systems looking for cynos, along with the firepower to take down the mothership, in addition to the mothership pilot being too stupid to see that local is spiking up dangerously and jump out....will come here and say that motherships are killable in lowsec too.
But um...I have some equally complex solutions to making pigs fly.
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Quutar
Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.09.14 20:59:00 -
[18]
don't forget that ewar immunity also applies to sensor dampeners
can't web/damp/scram a mother ship
so taking away the ewar immunity would also remove the protection from damps... a dangerous thing
and I liked the idea of a interdiction field generator (my name for the capital warp scram posted a while back). Basically a single target interdiction "bubble" effect. if an interdiction bubble can hold you, the interdiction field generator can. The balance would be... single target, and while you hold someone else... you are also unable to jump/warp (ie... if it has a 10 second cycle time... both you and your target can't jump for 10 seconds)
Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services. |
Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 21:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Alski on 14/09/2007 21:06:58
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Its the idea that there is a counter to a lowsec gatecamping mothership.
Would disableing there ability to activate a smartbomb in range of the gate do it for you? (like it is for stations currentley) Because thats the only real threat from a gatecamping mum, there locktime even on a battleship is pritty poor, and if you go traveling in lowsec in a BS without a scout ya death is deserved imho -
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Lugaid Laga
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Posted - 2007.09.14 21:46:00 -
[20]
How about CCP just stops moms from using smartbombs in low sec, that would stop the problem without effecting their ewar immunity.
Just moms though ... smartbombs are rarely used (good for pesky drones), but I'd hate to see a weapon system completely disappear from high or low sec space
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lofty29
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.14 21:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Alski Repeat after me: "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is" "ISK value of ship is a direct factor of how unkillable it is"
oooo look at me, i can use rolley eyes emote too!
Only if you don't count T2 at all.
Build cost =/= sale cost. It costs about 20m to build a hac, 60 to build a command ship ---
Project Mayhem 2 |
Drizit
Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 21:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Quutar don't forget that ewar immunity also applies to sensor dampeners
can't web/damp/scram a mother ship
so taking away the ewar immunity would also remove the protection from damps... a dangerous thing
and I liked the idea of a interdiction field generator (my name for the capital warp scram posted a while back). Basically a single target interdiction "bubble" effect. if an interdiction bubble can hold you, the interdiction field generator can. The balance would be... single target, and while you hold someone else... you are also unable to jump/warp (ie... if it has a 10 second cycle time... both you and your target can't jump for 10 seconds)
I agree with you on the first part, removing EW immunity from moms would be bad.
As for the interdiction field generator... Please NO! What is to stop the mom mounting one and becoming even more of a solo pwnmobile? A ship that can scram you and even a full rack of stabs can't save you from it? I honestly hope you would be the first inty pilot to run into it at a gate camp.
--
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Reem Fairchild
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Curzon Dax -Disallow supercapital ships in lowsec.
This is all that is needed.
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Chronus26
Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Curzon Dax -Disallow supercapital ships in lowsec.
This is all that is needed.
I disagree.
Being unable to dock is already enough of a negative point without disallowing them from just about the only place they can go to take a break and catch their breath without all of 0.0 chasing after them in hope of a MS killmail. 'Real' MS pilots have already been 'nerfed' enough without this.
-----
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Patch86 There was a good idea I heard way way back that really appealed to me, so it bears repeating here:
Capital Warp Scramble modules. Either only equippable by Dreadnoughts (Dreads always need more "capital to capital warfare" boosts, bless their POS plagued hearts), or equippable by any Capitals. What you do, is you give each of these modules a 1000 point scramble ability (say). At the same time, you remove motherships' and titans' immunity to scrambling, and replace it with a value such as 10050 and 20050 respectively. That way, in order to scramble a mothership, you only need 11 capital scramblers to do the trick, and the staying power to keep them alive. The extra 50, by the by, is to stop non-capital scramblers from tipping the balance.
Numbers are of course all pulled out my ass. Balancing pending.
but anyway, it'd mean that a Mothership is still pretty darned hard to catch in low sec, unless someone with a reasonable sized capital fleet turns up to bust them. And tbh, a decent sized fleet of specially set up capitals should be a threat to any camp, regardless of ships. Nothing should be flat out immune, regardless of high price.
I support this idea.
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Chronus26
Gallente Team Laser Explosion Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Patch86 There was a good idea I heard way way back that really appealed to me, so it bears repeating here:
Capital Warp Scramble modules. Either only equippable by Dreadnoughts (Dreads always need more "capital to capital warfare" boosts, bless their POS plagued hearts), or equippable by any Capitals. What you do, is you give each of these modules a 1000 point scramble ability (say). At the same time, you remove motherships' and titans' immunity to scrambling, and replace it with a value such as 10050 and 20050 respectively. That way, in order to scramble a mothership, you only need 11 capital scramblers to do the trick, and the staying power to keep them alive. The extra 50, by the by, is to stop non-capital scramblers from tipping the balance.
Numbers are of course all pulled out my ass. Balancing pending.
but anyway, it'd mean that a Mothership is still pretty darned hard to catch in low sec, unless someone with a reasonable sized capital fleet turns up to bust them. And tbh, a decent sized fleet of specially set up capitals should be a threat to any camp, regardless of ships. Nothing should be flat out immune, regardless of high price.
I support this idea.
Oh yes, that's probably the best plan, provided the amount of force needed to hold the MS/Titan was exceptional compared to your average gang.
MS kills shouldn't really be a day-to-day occurance imo. -----
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chronus26
Oh yes, that's probably the best plan, provided the amount of force needed to hold the MS/Titan was exceptional compared to your average gang.
MS kills shouldn't really be a day-to-day occurance imo.
I agree - Motherships should have a warp strength of around 100 and capital scramblers could have a strength of 20-25. This would allow non-capital ships some way to take them down, but it would take a whole lot of them loaded down with disruptors in order to pull it off. They'd then be vulnerable to any support the mothership had with it.
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Barthezz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.14 22:32:00 -
[28]
Yes lets make motherships even more vunerable in 0.0 because their overpowered in low-sec... Great idea... I love it honestly !
At this moment in time I call Motherships borderline balanced. However adding even more nerfs will screw them over big time. So lets not do that. OK?
Think of something that doesnt nerf them in 0.0 and we can talk. Until then, no! ---
Dev's give us a lag-update! |
Trind2222
Amarr Celestial Pillagers Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:06:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Trind2222 on 14/09/2007 23:12:25 My original idea was to put up a devise that remove ew invulnerability in low sec gates and stations this devise is been put up by concord.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.09.14 23:14:00 -
[30]
Remove Mothership EW invulnerability when in lowsec.
DONE. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
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