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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.16 16:29:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Malcanis
Well I was teasing you just a little I admit. And I'll readily agree that POS warfare is not the shining jewel of EvE. But as others have said, not doing ambulation isn't likely to make any difference to the bugs in the game. The team that are doing the programming are working on the White Wolf thing; the vast majority of EvE-specific work will be from the graphic artists & such. These are not the guys who have anything to do with fixing bugs. A case might be made that they should be making Caldari ships look less fugly, but that's pretty much fluff too. Really, the opportunity cost to SpaceshipsEvE is much less than some people are making out, apart from the dead African children, of course. (If simply throwing more people and money at the problem was a solution, Vista would be bug-free...)
On the other hand, Ambulation has potential to open up a new dimension in the game, and one that will cater directly to those people who aren't interested in AllianceFleetPOSblobSupercapLagfest style activities. And it might not suck! (OK, this is CCP we're talking; it will be great in ways which no other FPS MMORPG is, but will also have 2 or 3 or 10 outstandingly and universally annoying flaws which will be ignored for years).
Now I agree that attracting a large influx of WoW-grown n00bs who threaten to call the police when their Bantam gets pwned trying to mine in lo-sec is a worry. But trying to avert that by keeping the game narrow and stale isn't the solution IMO.
PS For the life of me I can't think of a good way to reform POS warfare, and maybe CCp can't either. That's not to say they shouldn't do anything else until someone has a good idea though.
For the record: I was aware you were ribbing me, and I countered with facetious pwnage. The slow troll penetrates the shield.
I'm aware of all the benefits of ambulation. In all honesty, I like it. It has great potential to expand the existing game, while also bringing in the new blood we need. Hell, I'd love it if it was CS in space. Let's see how those CS kiddies like it when their respawn point is 5 systems and two gatecamps away. I'm really just giving the solid business background to the negatives. Too much of the discussion on the big topics devolves into "ME LIKEY" or "JOO R DUM, IT IS SUCK."
My arguments are somewhat selfish. If business suddenly spikes and then, six months later, completely tanks, CCP could potentially make some business decisions with money that they simply don't have. We're talking the potential, however far-fetched, for CCP to no longer be solvent and this game to shut doors, and over something so stupid as walking around in a facking station. Add this to the problems with the existing game that you're essentially ignoring to implement some frippery, and you've got a recipe for bad. I advocate the conservative route, if only because safe growth is guaranteed growth. I remember 2003; who wants to jeopardize what we've already become?
As to fixing POS combat: it all comes down to sovereignty requirements. They're the linchpin that keep it between untenable zergfest and unending bore.
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Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.09.16 17:44:00 -
[182]
So what will we be able to do with ambulation thats so cool?
Visit the market to get the spread sheet rather then just clicking the tab?
Abuse your own clones in 3d?
Shake hands with the crew?
I do bet that add one thing that will make ambulation 'worth' it to the vets, and thats the ability to look outside and see if the station is camped.
I suppose that the RP folks will think its spiffy that they can all sit together with their mostly identical avatars, but it doesn't add anything for most players.
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Rilder
Caldari THC LTD Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.09.16 18:00:00 -
[183]
I don't really see how ccp can screw this up, I mean, if they mess up the whole thing then so what nobody will use ambulation then and it doesn't interfere with the rest of the game. If everything goes as planned and ambulation works awesome then, cool it works --
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Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.16 18:58:00 -
[184]
I would love ambulation it was one of the things I loved about Earth and beyond and it's why I initially didn't play Eve. The idea of a game where you never left your ship was not appealling. I'd love for it to be implemented.
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2007.09.16 19:29:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Shiodome i guess because people would prefer CCP to fix the existing problems with the game before adding new ones.
***************
LOL... QFT.... but please reread your post for what is says... unless, maybe YOU MEAN'T THEY WOULD BE ADDING PROBLEMS... LOL.
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Honethite
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.16 20:16:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Honethite on 16/09/2007 20:16:39 If that PAX interview is anything to go by, it seems Ambulation will add some incredible features to Eve, opening your own shops in space stations, customising it's appearance and placing your goods for sale around the shop, yes please! -----
--> Give Eve Online the score it deserves - Eve Online ftw ! <-- |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.09.16 21:43:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Honethite Edited by: Honethite on 16/09/2007 20:16:39 If that PAX interview is anything to go by, it seems Ambulation will add some incredible features to Eve, opening your own shops in space stations, customising it's appearance and placing your goods for sale around the shop, yes please!
You mean instead of hitting the market tab and seeing all of what I'm looking for, for sale for several systems, I can go find WCS's on a shelf?
You and I sir have very different definitions of 'incredible'.
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.16 22:00:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Amarria Black
For the record: I was aware you were ribbing me, and I countered with facetious pwnage. The slow troll penetrates the shield.
I'm aware of all the benefits of ambulation. In all honesty, I like it. It has great potential to expand the existing game, while also bringing in the new blood we need. Hell, I'd love it if it was CS in space. Let's see how those CS kiddies like it when their respawn point is 5 systems and two gatecamps away. I'm really just giving the solid business background to the negatives. Too much of the discussion on the big topics devolves into "ME LIKEY" or "JOO R DUM, IT IS SUCK."
My arguments are somewhat selfish. If business suddenly spikes and then, six months later, completely tanks, CCP could potentially make some business decisions with money that they simply don't have. We're talking the potential, however far-fetched, for CCP to no longer be solvent and this game to shut doors, and over something so stupid as walking around in a facking station. Add this to the problems with the existing game that you're essentially ignoring to implement some frippery, and you've got a recipe for bad. I advocate the conservative route, if only because safe growth is guaranteed growth. I remember 2003; who wants to jeopardize what we've already become?
As to fixing POS combat: it all comes down to sovereignty requirements. They're the linchpin that keep it between untenable zergfest and unending bore.
Even if CCP make some terrible business decisions (nerf profit!), and lose half their subscriber base, 100,000 accounts paying $15/mo is a considerable asset; as is the huge TQ server. Maybe they could sell it to SOE!
Still, enough words of comfort. Regardless of what we say in this thread, the decision has been made; they are committed to at least trying Ambulation. Let's approach it with an open mind. All this doomsaying befreo we even have an idea of what it's going to look like is completely premature. Yes, we'll be beta-testing Ambulation for CCP. I say: good. No plan of action survives contact with the enemy; no beta product survives release-testing unscathed. Who better than the scammers, gankers, pirates, spies, market riggers, mercenaries, assassins, smugglers, carebears and miners of EvE to find flaws and loopholes? And once the interface has survived the twin cleansing flames of exploit-monkeys and forum whining, it'll be ready for them to start adding content. Real content. And if we're lucky, they will have the sense to integrate player content and make it a central part of the AmbulationEvE experience, just as it is in SpaceshipEvE. Then: Win
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
James Swindle
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Posted - 2007.09.16 23:51:00 -
[189]
Abulations will be ace!!!
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Honethite
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.17 00:59:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
You mean instead of hitting the market tab and seeing all of what I'm looking for, for sale for several systems, I can go find WCS's on a shelf?
You and I sir have very different definitions of 'incredible'.
-Players will also be able to walk around the interior of their own ships. -Players will have access to a huge variety of clothing and accessories to wear on their characters and be able to swap between as many different outfits as they care to buy. -Venues are simply stores within the game where players will be able to socialize, browse, shop, and gamble. -In addition to gambling, there will be a variety of liquor and other alcoholic beverages to drink and tobacco to smoke. -There will be a number of places for your new avatars to walk around and strut their stuff. First, corporations will be getting meeting rooms. -Potential applicants can come and meet with current corporation members. Also, an NPC can be set up with simple corporation information and answers to commonly asked questions in case no one is handy to talk to them.
Yes, I do find them to be incredible features. But let's just hope CCP will allow players such as yourself to 'hit the market tab and see all of what I'm looking for' with no interaction at all with the new Ambulation features. -----
--> Give Eve Online the score it deserves - Eve Online ftw ! <-- |
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Lucia Warbler
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.09.17 01:10:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Jenna Shame
Originally by: Honethite Edited by: Honethite on 16/09/2007 20:16:39 If that PAX interview is anything to go by, it seems Ambulation will add some incredible features to Eve, opening your own shops in space stations, customising it's appearance and placing your goods for sale around the shop, yes please!
You mean instead of hitting the market tab and seeing all of what I'm looking for, for sale for several systems, I can go find WCS's on a shelf?
You and I sir have very different definitions of 'incredible'.
Many people love this game for its player driven market. Ambulation adds to this aspect of the game as you can put up a shop thus gaining visibility on the market. You could also use this space of yours to present tasty contracts for people instead of having spam the local ALL THE TIME.
PS. Is the guy who offered his stuff if someone hugged him still reading this? *hugs* Don't contract it in Jita, thank you.
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Fswd
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Posted - 2007.09.17 01:30:00 -
[192]
As long as I can run around with a personal AM Blaster i don't care --- Free exotic dancers for mods that mod my sig
*Snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected]) <-- freebie for you |
Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2007.09.17 01:46:00 -
[193]
Can't leave ship... clowns will eat me... -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Adrian Steel
Caldari Knowledge Capsuleers
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Posted - 2007.09.17 04:40:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Usarua since its still going to be mainly a space shooting strategy and numbers crunching game, its not getting out of its niche with a 10% dilution. in fact, it may attract the wrong type of people, or even those ill informed of what the game really is. as such, they'll likely play for a little while, and then get bored and leave. the CAPITAL CCP has spent on this project isnt justified by the returns. people who play the game for what it is will play. those that come because "ooh cool its a new feature in a game I didnt want to play before it got put in" will still play a bit and leave.
and hasnt the Pbase risen from a few thousand to around 150k? its having no trouble growing in its "niche", and I for one dont want the singularity of this game to be compromised because of a few whiners who say they want "ambulation" because they're teenagers who dont know what they really want, except some excuse to play a game they arent interested in. imo, people who lie to themselves generally arent the ones to get reliable product enhancement ideas from.
This. EVE is still very much a word of mouth game. Everyone here agrees that ambulation will be fluff and that the meat of the game will still be in space. What we're fixing to walk into is a game where there's this great but pointless walking-around-in-a-space-station sim, and the unpolished shoot-things-in-space game that it's tacked on to. We get trial players lured in by the ambulation, only to have them undock and go, "WTF?" They quit in short order, and promptly tell their friends that EVE is garbage. Without ambulation, they wouldn't have picked up the game in the first place. So instead of them never playing and having a net effect on non-player perception of zero, now they have a brief effect of +1 and a long term effect of -1.
It's funny how the players of one of the most brutal and unforgiving games on the market are facing a potential paradigm shift, and all they see are rainbows and unicorn farts.
Amarria Black, you won this thread! Raw brilliance.
Click above image for site link. |
Adrian Steel
Caldari Knowledge Capsuleers
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Posted - 2007.09.17 04:47:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Amarria Black Edited by: Amarria Black on 16/09/2007 11:03:59
Originally by: Malcanis So in essence: Ambulation will be nifty and good-looking, as far as it goes The real problem is that EvE is rubbish.
Gotcha.
Not rubbish, but certainly not flawless. This leaves us with two scenarios:
1) Ambulation is half-assed. All the time, effort, and money put into it is truly wasted.
-OR-
2) Ambulation is well polished. This throws into even starker contrast the flaws present in the rest of the game.
Neither one is a position of net gain. I'd hate to be the poor marketing sod asked the question, "Ambulation is a true joy to experience, but POS warfare is still plagued with poor implementation. How do you account for this?"
Edit: s-c-h-m-u-c-k is censored? What gives?
Marry me.
Click above image for site link. |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.09.17 05:44:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Jenna Shame on 17/09/2007 05:45:35
Originally by: Honethite
-Players will also be able to walk around the interior of their own ships.
Umm ok? I enjoy fluff, this isn't bad, but its fluff.
Quote: -Players will have access to a huge variety of clothing and accessories to wear on their characters and be able to swap between as many different outfits as they care to buy.
Well you are Gallente so I understand why new clothes is so exciting to you ;)
Quote: -Venues are simply stores within the game where players will be able to socialize, browse, shop, and gamble.
Graphical IRC got it.
Quote: -In addition to gambling, there will be a variety of liquor and other alcoholic beverages to drink and tobacco to smoke.
As soon as getting drunk in game gives me a buzz rl, let me know, so far at best it makes your screen get fuzzy.
Quote: -There will be a number of places for your new avatars to walk around and strut their stuff. First, corporations will be getting meeting rooms.
So instead of inviting people to a chat channel we can all fly to the same station and see 3d avatars while being in a chat channel. Fine for dramatic effect, but with the size of eve, they better put teleporters in the station. No one wants to go 30 jumps for an 'in real fake life' meeting when they can just use chat unless you are really into your roleplaying.
Quote: -Potential applicants can come and meet with current corporation members. Also, an NPC can be set up with simple corporation information and answers to commonly asked questions in case no one is handy to talk to them.
Well maybe fine for empire corps, useless for 0.0 for obvious reasons, and again, chat + avatar is still just chat.
Quote: Yes, I do find them to be incredible features. But let's just hope CCP will allow players such as yourself to 'hit the market tab and see all of what I'm looking for' with no interaction at all with the new Ambulation features.
Amen to that. CCP isn't adding 'incredible features' they are adding features in about every OTHER mmo out there. Great, if it makes you happy but don't expect people who like eve for what is it now to really care that much. It might be a cute novelty, maybe at some point it will be truly part of the game itself beyond fluff, but as what I enjoy in game seems to be broken (fleet 0.0 warfare) don't expect people like me to cheer that the 1000's of eve ******* players will now get to add a thong to their character.
There is a 2+ year old video showing planetary landings and combat in eve. Don't get excited about anything until it happens here, and then assume its going to be less than you hoped.
I don't have anything per say 'against' ambulation, but I am rather perturbed with the current drive for more players when the existing hardware (upgraded many times since I first joined) is choking under the current load. I know we have had more blogs about that, but you will have to forgive me if I don't believe anything will change until I see it, we have all been down that road before.
Edit: I found a new censored word, I wonder how many can guess what it was?
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Pirate Tom
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Posted - 2007.09.17 06:12:00 -
[197]
Originally by: "People(possibly human, term only implies ability to use the intarwebz"
I can do CCP's job better than they can. They should do what I think is important first.
Awesome! put in an application and give them a hand in Reykjavik.
Originally by: "Some guy who mentioned the word Thong in his post"
blah blah blah wear a thong blah blah blah...
Not just for girls! Gets rid of annoying boxerbrief lines under my robe. As long as it gives support where I need it and lets my skin breathe.. mmm
Originally by: "Something about hookers"
....hookers and beer....
Hookers and beer? mmmm
Originally by: "Guy worried about dancing in a Jita Station"
something about 20 guys doing the can-can in a concourse in jita or something...
It gets worse. I saw that at a Regional Airport in France one time. Maybe we should deny them ambulation to prevent that. |
Tunak
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Posted - 2007.09.17 15:37:00 -
[198]
It will add nothing to the game. As most ambulation proponents have pointed out, as a defense, it will be completely optional.
This means:
That pimpz0r store you spent hours setting up? I just bought an item from it when I was 4 hops over. I don't even know your store exists. At this point your store is functionally identical to playing the sims single player.
Oh and if I wanted to use your store rather than the market I would have to spend extra time walking to your store. This is a stated fact on record by CCP. Buying from your ambulation store will take more time. Game theory dictates that the vast majority will not use it for that one reason alone.
Corp meeting hall:
Currently we have TS or Vent or whatever you use. It allows me to talk to people in my corp from anywhere in the galaxy. We had a corp meeting the other day. I was running missions during it. Everyone in the meeting was scattered across the galaxy.
Why would anyone use the corp meeting hall? You'd all have to assemble somewhere. You couldn't do anything during the meeting. Where is the upside?
Clothing:
Until one can customize their ship's appearance clothing is a waste of resources.
It won't cause lag or problems:
Last week we saw the server crashing due to setting a station as your capital. If ambulation is going to talk to the database it can bring the server down.
People will use it for 2 weeks and then it will languish. It's optional and any action within ambulation will take more time because you have to walk there. Once again this is a stated fact by CCP. Thus it will be more profitable to not use it. You'll be able to accomplish more if you don't use.
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Havlentia Castigatrix
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2007.09.17 16:03:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Tunak It will add nothing to the game. As most ambulation proponents have pointed out, as a defense, it will be completely optional.
I was disappointed, most of the pro-ambulation crowd seemed to be posting with alts and it would have become real easy to point out that pro-ambulation was a troll. Then you post anti-ambulation with an alt. *pop* goes my bubble.
Personally I see ambulation as a vast excuse to catch the Second Life bus, there's no specific reason why it would be good, any socialisations would be limited to being in the same fricking station (y'know, physical limitations of being there 'in person' so to speak). This would create knock-on effects for what happens if all of Jita decides to 'sit' in the same 'room', and what a similar 'room' in a particularly unpopular system would be like.
There's no actual need for it, so there has to be another motivation. Creating a 'physical' layer to the API? Creating an isk sink in pink boxers and barker loungers? Allowing advertisers in to the stations?
I'm not convinced by the 'war room' argument because if it was needed, we'd better have a better fleet interface than 'need armour' buttons. Casino's could be a decent isk sink, but the day that someone messes up the coding and it starts paying out...well, either the casino would need to be player capped, or the market will crash a lot harder than it is with the isk sellers flashing wad around.
Nah, not at all convinced by ambulation because it's the big plastic mouse ears option for a ferrari.
Some things it would be lovely to see would be;
Factional warfare Some movement in the political side of things, such as the sec status of empire and low changing slightly as the factions duke it out. Maybe the occasional planetary bombardment by an 'omigod' fleet of titans rather than the factions skulking around in deadspace. More 'events'. More spanners in the works from the NPCs. Spreading out the COSMOS agents, maybe making plexes escalate so they can't be farmed as easily, changing the respawn counters on plexes to make them less predictable.
----- This space left intentionally blank |
Tunak
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Posted - 2007.09.17 16:18:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Havlentia Castigatrix
I was disappointed, most of the pro-ambulation crowd seemed to be posting with alts and it would have become real easy to point out that pro-ambulation was a troll. Then you post anti-ambulation with an alt. *pop* goes my bubble.
You obviously didn't read the rest of this thread then.
I play with my main I post with this char. It avoids metagaming that way. What exactly is the problem?
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:06:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Tunak It will add nothing to the game. As most ambulation proponents have pointed out, as a defense, it will be completely optional.
This means:
That pimpz0r store you spent hours setting up? I just bought an item from it when I was 4 hops over. I don't even know your store exists. At this point your store is functionally identical to playing the sims single player.
Oh and if I wanted to use your store rather than the market I would have to spend extra time walking to your store. This is a stated fact on record by CCP. Buying from your ambulation store will take more time. Game theory dictates that the vast majority will not use it for that one reason alone.
Corp meeting hall:
Currently we have TS or Vent or whatever you use. It allows me to talk to people in my corp from anywhere in the galaxy. We had a corp meeting the other day. I was running missions during it. Everyone in the meeting was scattered across the galaxy.
Why would anyone use the corp meeting hall? You'd all have to assemble somewhere. You couldn't do anything during the meeting. Where is the upside?
Clothing:
Until one can customize their ship's appearance clothing is a waste of resources.
It won't cause lag or problems:
Last week we saw the server crashing due to setting a station as your capital. If ambulation is going to talk to the database it can bring the server down.
People will use it for 2 weeks and then it will languish. It's optional and any action within ambulation will take more time because you have to walk there. Once again this is a stated fact by CCP. Thus it will be more profitable to not use it. You'll be able to accomplish more if you don't use.
Undocking is optional too.
No, seriously. There are characters who need never undock.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Tunak
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:11:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Malcanis
Undocking is optional too.
No, seriously. There are characters who need never undock.
Yes this is true for second characters. Do you have a point? How does this apply to the topic at hand.
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Riley Craven
Caldari Copacetic Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:40:00 -
[203]
answer to the op: because it bumped planetary flight. (thats at least why I hate it)
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34534bobalt3244
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:44:00 -
[204]
When I can go boom headshot. And the guy has to walk out of a clone room and get dressed before he can get his revenge. That is when ambulation will be a success.
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Tunak
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:46:00 -
[205]
Originally by: 34534bobalt3244 When I can go boom headshot. And the guy has to walk out of a clone room and get dressed before he can get his revenge. That is when ambulation will be a success.
Sorry they've already stated no combat.
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Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:46:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Riley Craven answer to the op: because it bumped planetary flight. (thats at least why I hate it)
It did? Ok now I have a reason to hate ambulation instead of just not care about it.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.09.17 17:48:00 -
[207]
I don't, it's a most welcome addition.
Also Known As |
Draskuul Vrallis
Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.17 18:53:00 -
[208]
I don't have a problem with Ambulation itself.
My problem is that I'd rather see the resources used to fix existing problems and make updates that actually affect the usability and playability of the game. Fix the drone bugs, give us a better drone interface, get us some proper drone regoin faction loot, etc.
CCP's argument is that they have a seperate group working on bugs vs a group working on Ambulation. Sorry, that isn't a valid argument.
Instead of hiring more DBAs to help work on database issues, you hire people to draw arms and legs.
Instead of hiring coders to fix existing bugs, you hire people to draw a conference table and hallways.
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Talianas Unger
Minmatar Brotherhood of Mithra Black Sheep Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:12:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Talianas Unger on 17/09/2007 20:15:01 Edited by: Talianas Unger on 17/09/2007 20:14:39
Originally by: Missy X For every person that I know personally who is (needlessly) upset about ambulation, I know another three who wish to become EVE subscribers but steadfastly refuse to do so until ambulation arrives.
I will bet you good money that 70-80% (at least!) who are joining simply so that they can have a virutal shop in space will leave in less than 6 months. Why? What happens when that person cannot fill their shop because their convoys of shop supplies keep getting suicide ganked? Or how about just being perma-wardecced because people just want to be arses? This is primarily a game of harsh realities, both in terms of space combat AND economics. If people aren't playing until they can have a happy-happy joy-joy station environment to play in, well, they'll still be in the wrong MMO once Ambulation comes.
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Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:17:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Riley Craven answer to the op: because it bumped planetary flight. (thats at least why I hate it)
Proof or STFU ---------------
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