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Born Slippy
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:06:00 -
[1]
Im thinking of starting myself off in the T2 production market by buying a couple T2 ammo bpo's. Could i please get some advice on what the good bpo's are and what the bad ones are to stear clear from. Thanks!
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:11:00 -
[2]
My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
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Born Slippy
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Block Ukx My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
Whaaaaaaat?!?! How can they justify that! What about all the people that have built their entire eve life around T2 BPOs?
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Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.17 20:59:00 -
[4]
Don't be fooled. You should stay away from em if the whiners are correct. Faction ammo is apparently the order of the day. So I strongly suggest you check market trends for a bpo before buying it.
But I really really doubt CCP will turn t2 bpos into bpcs. There is just no reason for it, and CCP do like to stay out of the market. Only interferring when something is imbalanced. 15% profit margin over inventors or whatever, for a limited number of modules/ships etc is probably not worth nerfing.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.17 21:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Born Slippy Im thinking of starting myself off in the T2 production market by buying a couple T2 ammo bpo's. Could i please get some advice on what the good bpo's are and what the bad ones are to stear clear from. Thanks!
Asking for advice as to exactly what items you should buy/produce is a very very very bad idea. You will NOT get good advice. Those who actually have good advice to give are not going to share it... and those who do not have good advice will be the ones who do share it.
Personally, as a T2 ammo producer myself, I can tell you that I wouldn't re-buy the bpo's right now if I didn't own them already. The market is worthless now because of faction ammo.
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.09.17 21:17:00 -
[6]
buy the bpo for the T2 ammo that you'd use
pro's you always have T2 ammo
con's other people might not use it and you'll make no profit
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Equitus Majora
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Posted - 2007.09.17 21:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Born Slippy
Originally by: Block Ukx My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
Whaaaaaaat?!?! How can they justify that! What about all the people that have built their entire eve life around T2 BPOs?
In the words of Nelson from the Simpsons, "Ha Ha!". So the T2 BPO owners can have something to whine about, I'm sure their piles and piles of ISK will comfort them. Call the Waaaahmbulance. |
Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.17 22:12:00 -
[8]
I recall that during the lottery, there were comments to the effect of "some ammo bpos don't earn much at all".
Im not sure that the little "II" stamp in the corner always means great profit. So why hate on em? Now, if he had a SHIP bpo, I'd be throwing stones too :p
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Atreus Danerun
Amarr Caldari Bank
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Posted - 2007.09.17 23:00:00 -
[9]
I think Barrage is one of the best Ammo BPOs out there, just check Jita prices.
Best bet, go to Forge, check the lowest prices on the Ammo, whichever ones are the Highest of the Low is your choice.
A mate of mine has a full set of Barrage BPOs - he makes more ISK from just the medium one than I make from my Ares + Taranis Combined.
I think his average return on all 3 are close to 1.5-2 Billion ISK/Month.
T2 SALES & SERVICE
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.18 00:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/09/2007 00:36:58 Javelin rocket/HAM/torps (mostly HAMs), Spike, Conflagration, Barrage. That's about it, and not even all sizes (gun ammo) or damage types (missiles) for each of them. So-so for Aurora, Tremor. Not so hot with Void. Crappy with rage and any guided missiles except maybe precision cruise. _
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.09.18 02:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T Javelin rocket/HAM/torps (mostly HAMs), Spike, Conflagration, Barrage. That's about it, and not even all sizes (gun ammo) or damage types (missiles) for each of them. So-so for Aurora, Tremor. Not so hot with Void. Crappy with rage and any guided missiles except maybe precision cruise.
Basically, anything that confers a unique bonus and doesn't have a ill-thought-out production time that results in way too much product being produced.
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Grawshellar
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Posted - 2007.09.18 07:53:00 -
[12]
Akita covered it pretty well, but I'd reinforce specifically Spike S, Spike L, and Barrage M as being good investments.
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Crazy Broad
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Posted - 2007.09.18 10:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Block Ukx My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
Um, its must be fun to run around and spread a rumor? People have been saying this for 3 years. It was never confirmed.
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Lutien
Caldari z-inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.20 11:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Crazy Broad
Originally by: Block Ukx My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
Um, its must be fun to run around and spread a rumor? People have been saying this for 3 years. It was never confirmed.
And i won't be confirmed! The entire t2 construction conponet market will crash if that hapens. Then the ice market will crash. T2 bpo's are to stay.
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Yao Shiu
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:27:00 -
[15]
scorch M. there's a shortage in domain and it sells for more than conflag M
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Block Ukx
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Crazy Broad Um, its must be fun to run around and spread a rumor?
Is not a rumor, but you are correct no one knows the fate of T2 BPOs. Some people speculate T2 BPOs are staying others think they will be turn into high run BPCs. It really depends whether or not ccp considers invention to be a success.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.20 17:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Crazy Broad Um, its must be fun to run around and spread a rumor?
Is not a rumor, but you are correct no one knows the fate of T2 BPOs. Some people speculate T2 BPOs are staying others think they will be turn into high run BPCs. It really depends whether or not ccp considers invention to be a success.
Ivention is a success. It does not depend on invention to be a success; it depends on CCP to find a solution that will please both the former t2 bpo owners, and the invention ppl. Your first post was not a speculation at all, was just an attempt to build up rumours.
PS: Here's a hint. Read what you link before you link it. Won't make you look like a n00b.
I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :) |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.20 17:53:00 -
[18]
T2 BPO's are definitely becoming BPC's.
I have absolutely no proof for this.
Tanking Setups Compared
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.24 02:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Equitus Majora
In the words of Nelson from the Simpsons, "Ha Ha!". So the T2 BPO owners can have something to whine about, I'm sure their piles and piles of ISK will comfort them. Call the Waaaahmbulance.
I love the assumption that T2 BPO = infinite pile of ISK. Try doing the math on a BPO besides Hulk, Cerb, Cap Recharger II, etc. . . an Assault Launcher II BPO, or a 75mm Railgun II BPO for example.
Now tell me, who in their right mind (and with a functional knowledge of economics) would invent 75mm Railgun IIs, with or without BPOs in existence? And who would pay the full invented build cost for 75mm Railgun IIs (this includes datacore cost)?
CCP will keep the BPOs in game because they keep a lot of less-used T2 cheap. What they don't keep cheap, invention does, with a few exceptions (Command BCs and anything that has more than one potential invention result). -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.24 03:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
Originally by: Equitus Majora
In the words of Nelson from the Simpsons, "Ha Ha!". So the T2 BPO owners can have something to whine about, I'm sure their piles and piles of ISK will comfort them. Call the Waaaahmbulance.
I love the assumption that T2 BPO = infinite pile of ISK. Try doing the math on a BPO besides Hulk, Cerb, Cap Recharger II, etc. . . an Assault Launcher II BPO, or a 75mm Railgun II BPO for example.
Now tell me, who in their right mind (and with a functional knowledge of economics) would invent 75mm Railgun IIs, with or without BPOs in existence? And who would pay the full invented build cost for 75mm Railgun IIs (this includes datacore cost)?
CCP will keep the BPOs in game because they keep a lot of less-used T2 cheap. What they don't keep cheap, invention does, with a few exceptions (Command BCs and anything that has more than one potential invention result).
I for one feel extremely sorry for anyone that has the great misfortune of owning "crappy" T2 BPO's. Poor poor them. If only they didn't own BPO's worth 500+ mill each... it's such a hassle for them I know!
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Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.09.24 05:58:00 -
[21]
Shardale, can you help me with my suffering. I own a Gremlin rage rocket bpo as well as a small t2 smartbomb bpo and I have no idear what to do with either. Could you please take them from my hands at 500M each?
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.24 07:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shadarle on 24/09/2007 07:30:35
Originally by: Martosh Toma Shardale, can you help me with my suffering. I own a Gremlin rage rocket bpo as well as a small t2 smartbomb bpo and I have no idear what to do with either. Could you please take them from my hands at 500M each?
Wow, it really does suck to be you. Just think, you could have been really lucky and gotten nothing in those auctions instead! Or... imagine this... you could have turned down those two you got! Or you could have not purchased them if you didn't win them! But I will happily take them off your hands free of charge... cause I'm that nice a guy. I know how much it sucks to have em and all.
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Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.09.24 07:48:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Martosh Toma on 24/09/2007 07:49:59 So you are only intrested in them if they are free? Could you make up your mind as to wether they are worthless or worth 500M?
If I got them from the lottery then whatever amount of RP I lost on them would have been my purchase price. With the advent of invention a price tag has been set on data cores therefore on RP. So I can calculate the cost of the bpo if the lottery was its source. If I bought it then I have a straight isk amount I bought it for. For as long as I have had these they have not been profiteble in production. So both items represent an investment in isk, one that has not been profiteble at all. The fact that some bpo (were?) hugely profiteble does not alter in any way the value of these bpo, nor does it make me isk with these bpo in any way.
I do not mean to whine or anything. I know I decided to get these bpo and if that decision was wrong then my isk balance will suffer, such is eve and that is how it should be. But please do not pretend that people owning such crappy non profiteble bpo's should be happy about it, or that simply removing t2 bpo would be a good thing.
edited for spelling (hope I got them all)
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.24 07:58:00 -
[24]
You should indeed be happy you have it. If you aren't you could sell it. Perhaps you actually have two extremely crappy ones that won't even fetch 500 mil, but I've noticed a lot of really crappy BPO's that wouldn't make 500 mil in 10 years of production selling for at least that much.
I got into capital production... and it turned out to not be very profitable with all the new people joining the field and most of them pricing their ships using the idea that mined minerals = free minerals. So did I whine? No. I cashed out and sold my BPO's and reprocessed any spare components I had built. I could still be holding onto the stupid things if I wanted... but that would be stupid as they weren't profitable.
So you have two crappy BPO's. You're still better off than the guy who doesn't have those BPO's.
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Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.09.24 08:24:00 -
[25]
I am not better off, I invested (be it RP or isk) in these bpo and current market prices prevent me from liquidating them except at a huge loss.
I will admit that at the time i bought the rage rocket I did expect it to turn a profit. Needless to say it does not earn me a profit, as it is not economical to build.
In addition CCP introduced faction ammo that is easely obtained and does the the same amount of damage but without all the penalties incurred on the rage rockets (and it is the same for all damage missile versions), so destroying the last vestiges of possible use these bpo had And there is more: CCP released many more unprofiteble ammo bpo than the number of bpo they released for modules or ships.
An you are still telling me to be happy with an assed I invested in, that is unable to turn a profit in production and imposssible to sell except perhaps at a huge loss? What reasons are there to be happy about it?
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.24 15:37:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/09/2007 15:37:56 I will be honest here. The vast majority of t2 ammo bpo's make less profit/day than their t1 ammo counterparts due to volumes shifted.
There are profitable t2 ammo bpo's out there, but the key thing you should look at is volume shifted as opposed to price. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.24 17:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shadarle on 24/09/2007 17:13:59
Originally by: Martosh Toma I am not better off, I invested (be it RP or isk) in these bpo and current market prices prevent me from liquidating them except at a huge loss.
I will admit that at the time i bought the rage rocket I did expect it to turn a profit. Needless to say it does not earn me a profit, as it is not economical to build.
In addition CCP introduced faction ammo that is easely obtained and does the the same amount of damage but without all the penalties incurred on the rage rockets (and it is the same for all damage missile versions), so destroying the last vestiges of possible use these bpo had And there is more: CCP released many more unprofiteble ammo bpo than the number of bpo they released for modules or ships.
An you are still telling me to be happy with an assed I invested in, that is unable to turn a profit in production and imposssible to sell except perhaps at a huge loss? What reasons are there to be happy about it?
LOL. So you actually payed for a rage rocket BPO eh? And you payed a rather high price it seems.
The point still remains that you could sell the thing if you are so unhappy with it. You've already lost the money, as you should be valuing your assets at what they are worth, not what you payed for them. Thus if you sell it you'll have real ISK that will work for you, rather than a BPO you obviously aren't happy with.
And I'd like you to show proof that CCP released more unprofitable ammo bpo's than they released BPO's for modules and ships (don't forget drones btw).
I'm by no means telling you to be happy you made a stupid investment. That was your own fault. But anyone who chose to take a T2 BPO from the lottery has 0 room to complain. They chose the field to do R&D in, they chose to accept the BPO they took and they were lucky enough to get offered a BPO. Most people didn't get offered a single BPO and would have happily accepted a crappy BPO instead of none at all.
Even your incredibly bad investment in a rage rocket BPO would probably sell for more than you think.. I've seen several worthless rocket BPO's selling for 500 mil over the past few months. But perhaps all the gullible investors are gone now.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.09.24 18:43:00 -
[28]
I seem to remember CCP said somewhere that they released around 40 of each ammo BPO, although that number might be high. In any case, I'm certain that they said they seeded more BPOs per item than were previously seeded. (Although I'm not sure if that means same-as recently seeded module BPOs, or different)
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Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.09.24 20:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Block Ukx My advice; Stay away from T2 BPOs. CCP plans to turn them into BPCs.
proof? link? devblog stating so? CCP started thread about it? None of these exist...until you produce proof...S T F U
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Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.09.24 23:01:00 -
[30]
I cannot actually point you to the post but it was indeed mentioned by CCP that it is something they are thinking about. [Huge] BUT [/Huge] CCP has in that same post stated that before they would think about turning t2 bpo into bpc they would: 1. introduce a means of adding runs to a bpc. 2. allowing me and pe research to bpc
I will try and find those posts (the one you asked about as well Shardale) and post links here
Shardale, as I said before, even if I had gotten it from an agent offer then it still would have used up the RP I had with that agent. Those RP do represent an amount of isk these days. So it is possible to calculate the isk investment people made on a bpo they accepted. of course a lot of people will cry if they did this very calculation.
Calling t a bad investement now is easy. Although I admit I thought it was risky at the time I made the choise, the failure was by no means guaranteed. There had been a few t2 bpo that had gotten a very slow start but did eventually show a profit (t2 drones for instance). And I hoped that their use would grow with time. Sadly t2 rockets (and other t2 damage missiles) simply fail. Faction ammo provides the same damage at nearly the same production cost, but without any penalty. I had not foreseen that part of the impact from the loyalty shop on the market.
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