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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:10:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Ixianus
America isnt China. Lets applaud how it gets closer to being the same way though. Yeah woooo, good point.
How does this demonstrate America getting any closer to running over students with tanks?
An individual got a bit out of order in a public forum. Campus police, who are there to keep order, attempt to escort him peacefully away. He is noncompliant and actually a bit violent. A compliance tool is used. Once, from what I saw.
If he would've left it at being escorted away from the mic, the cops had nothing on him in terms of legal action. But he resisted. Which got him the taser and the legal charges. Being detained or removed by police or security simply doesn't constitute an arrest...but he freaked out about being "arrested." Probably so that he could make his scene and get the sort of public outcry demonstrated here.
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Atama Cardel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:13:00 -
[122]
Originally by: bustergonads full vid here
That one still looks like there are parts cut out
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:25:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/09/2007 09:21:38
Disturbing the peace
Arrested for "resisting the police" and "disturbing the peace".
Well, I guess the student got the answer to his question didnt he! They probably would have shot him if he was holding this burkes peerage in his hand instead of a notepad. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:25:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Atama Cardel
Originally by: bustergonads full vid here
That one still looks like there are parts cut out
Oh that was classic . Now children, pay attention because this is what a pompous ass looks like
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Kathryn Dougans
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:34:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Kathryn Dougans on 19/09/2007 00:35:25
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Atama Cardel
Originally by: bustergonads full vid here
That one still looks like there are parts cut out
Oh that was classic . Now children, pay attention because this is what a pompous ass looks like
For that video, I thought the best bit was when the bloke says "I want to recommend you a book", and Mr. Kerry says "I already have it" and "I've read it".
But he ignores that, and continues on his rant.
Why talk to Mr. Kerry, if you're not interested in listening to him?
From that, it was fairly apparent that it would all go pear shaped.
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Elysium73
Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:37:00 -
[126]
Wow.
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Atama Cardel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:39:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Atama Cardel
Originally by: bustergonads full vid here
That one still looks like there are parts cut out
Oh that was classic . Now children, pay attention because this is what a pompous ass looks like
Wait, are you calling me pompous? Sorry, I'm running on, well not nearly enough sleep
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:46:00 -
[128]
Just sprinkle some ***** on him and get the hell outta here!
Not just for blacks anymore. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Captain Hudson
Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:10:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 19/09/2007 01:10:37
Originally by: Sharupak Just sprinkle some ***** on him and get the hell outta here!
Not just for blacks anymore.
Dave Chappell is 4tw
Originally by: SPQRMocton
We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
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Basileus
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:12:00 -
[130]
So this is the democracy America is so eager to spread?! They can keep it!
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Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Basileus So this is the democracy America is so eager to spread?! They can keep it!
Unfortunately, it is happening the world over. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Vytak Vyr
Minmatar Cambio Logistic and Support Systems
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:42:00 -
[132]
Well, seeing as how the BBC is state run, and the Times has been in the aristo's pockets since it's inception, it's easy to see how Limies can pretend they're the quintessence of gentility. Just because they got into Iraq up to their knees, rather than their chins is like quibbling over how deeply you stepped into the cowpie.
As far as the topic at hand, may I speak as a veteran social radical? When in the lion's den pulling his tail, it's adviseable to be cognizent of the house rules. The buffoon of a "student" has a lot to learn about behaving in public. He's berating Kerry for not contesting an election that happened two years ago. Student? It was a student that started World War I. One of our presidential candidates wound up in a wheelchair for life.
Suffice to say the security detail was there to protect a senator (one of a hundred), not a "student's" delusional idea of his own free speech rights. I saw the entire video and was struck by the fact the security people didn't taze him when he was climbing them like a tree. When he started waving his arms and moving toward the stage, had I hired security and he wasn't cuffed by then, the security guys would have been tazed.
Then to hear that poor kid whine like a sheep. "Ow. Ow. Ow." He handed a video camera to a girl next to him to grab the footage before he began, by the way. You don't behave that way in public, not especially in a civic meeting. If the security people took him for an out of control freak, he has only himself to blame, and that's exactly what he looked like to me.
The point behind civil disobedience is to take the consequences of your action like a man, or a woman. It's not to bleat like a sheep for the cameras. It was a disgusting display by a wannabee activist. He should feel lucky. In my day they cuffed you, clubbed you on the way to the van, and shot mace in your face for good measure.
For you hoity toity Europeans out there, don't even try to pretend your police aren't violent, or there exclusively for your upper classes and the state. There's enough film and video to fill the MGM Hall of Fame that clearly proves otherwise. Don't even get me started on how the IRA were treated, and the rebels in Algeria, or the dissenters against Franco. Very funny. Try again, but not with those of us that have been here a while.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:47:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Vytak Vyr Well, seeing as how the BBC is state run, and the Times has been in the aristo's pockets since it's inception, it's easy to see how Limies can pretend they're the quintessence of gentility. Just because they got into Iraq up to their knees, rather than their chins is like quibbling over how deeply you stepped into the cowpie.
As far as the topic at hand, may I speak as a veteran social radical? When in the lion's den pulling his tail, it's adviseable to be cognizent of the house rules. The buffoon of a "student" has a lot to learn about behaving in public. He's berating Kerry for not contesting an election that happened two years ago. Student? It was a student that started World War I. One of our presidential candidates wound up in a wheelchair for life.
Suffice to say the security detail was there to protect a senator (one of a hundred), not a "student's" delusional idea of his own free speech rights. I saw the entire video and was struck by the fact the security people didn't taze him when he was climbing them like a tree. When he started waving his arms and moving toward the stage, had I hired security and he wasn't cuffed by then, the security guys would have been tazed.
Then to hear that poor kid whine like a sheep. "Ow. Ow. Ow." He handed a video camera to a girl next to him to grab the footage before he began, by the way. You don't behave that way in public, not especially in a civic meeting. If the security people took him for an out of control freak, he has only himself to blame, and that's exactly what he looked like to me.
The point behind civil disobedience is to take the consequences of your action like a man, or a woman. It's not to bleat like a sheep for the cameras. It was a disgusting display by a wannabee activist. He should feel lucky. In my day they cuffed you, clubbed you on the way to the van, and shot mace in your face for good measure.
For you hoity toity Europeans out there, don't even try to pretend your police aren't violent, or there exclusively for your upper classes and the state. There's enough film and video to fill the MGM Hall of Fame that clearly proves otherwise. Don't even get me started on how the IRA were treated, and the rebels in Algeria, or the dissenters against Franco. Very funny. Try again, but not with those of us that have been here a while.
I wanna see him pull that crap in Singapore
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: TheDagda *click* For the love of the jovians stops necroing
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Captain Hudson
Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:52:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Vytak Vyr Well, seeing as how the BBC is state run, and the Times has been in the aristo's pockets since it's inception, it's easy to see how Limies can pretend they're the quintessence of gentility. Just because they got into Iraq up to their knees, rather than their chins is like quibbling over how deeply you stepped into the cowpie.
As far as the topic at hand, may I speak as a veteran social radical? When in the lion's den pulling his tail, it's adviseable to be cognizent of the house rules. The buffoon of a "student" has a lot to learn about behaving in public. He's berating Kerry for not contesting an election that happened two years ago. Student? It was a student that started World War I. One of our presidential candidates wound up in a wheelchair for life.
Suffice to say the security detail was there to protect a senator (one of a hundred), not a "student's" delusional idea of his own free speech rights. I saw the entire video and was struck by the fact the security people didn't taze him when he was climbing them like a tree. When he started waving his arms and moving toward the stage, had I hired security and he wasn't cuffed by then, the security guys would have been tazed.
Then to hear that poor kid whine like a sheep. "Ow. Ow. Ow." He handed a video camera to a girl next to him to grab the footage before he began, by the way. You don't behave that way in public, not especially in a civic meeting. If the security people took him for an out of control freak, he has only himself to blame, and that's exactly what he looked like to me.
The point behind civil disobedience is to take the consequences of your action like a man, or a woman. It's not to bleat like a sheep for the cameras. It was a disgusting display by a wannabee activist. He should feel lucky. In my day they cuffed you, clubbed you on the way to the van, and shot mace in your face for good measure.
For you hoity toity Europeans out there, don't even try to pretend your police aren't violent, or there exclusively for your upper classes and the state. There's enough film and video to fill the MGM Hall of Fame that clearly proves otherwise. Don't even get me started on how the IRA were treated, and the rebels in Algeria, or the dissenters against Franco. Very funny. Try again, but not with those of us that have been here a while.
yes we should of given the IRA flowers while they gave us bombs!.
lol the upper class rule
Originally by: SPQRMocton
We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
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Vytak Vyr
Minmatar Cambio Logistic and Support Systems
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:00:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Vytak Vyr on 19/09/2007 02:02:32 Edited by: Vytak Vyr on 19/09/2007 02:01:25 You obviously know nothing of that story. I, however, an unwashed American do. The British Army was there to protect the Catholic minority. Explain to me, then, how they wound up searching entire neighborhoods without warrents, mass arresting people, denying them fair trials and treating them brutally in prisons. I'll bet you don't even know. Even so, such brutality is often met with violence. Colonial powers can't hope to justify what they themselves stir up. What are British troops doing in Ireland, anyway? Some sort of goodwill tour? Or, has England, historically, had trouble reading maps?
You don't know how lame, at the end of all this, your comment is. I guess that's why you had the nerve to make it. Your country's dealings with Ireland are no secret my friend. Neither is Britain's treatment of "wogs" is it - Africans. Go sell that soft soap to someone else. Oh, I know why... "We don't do that anymore." Yeah, right. 1776
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Captain Hudson
Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:15:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 19/09/2007 02:24:19 Edited by: Captain Hudson on 19/09/2007 02:18:02
Originally by: Vytak Vyr Edited by: Vytak Vyr on 19/09/2007 02:02:32 Edited by: Vytak Vyr on 19/09/2007 02:01:25 You obviously know nothing of that story. I, however, an unwashed American do. The British Army was there to protect the Catholic minority. Explain to me, then, how they wound up searching entire neighborhoods without warrents, mass arresting people, denying them fair trials and treating them brutally in prisons. I'll bet you don't even know. Even so, such brutality is often met with violence. Colonial powers can't hope to justify what they themselves stir up. What are British troops doing in Ireland, anyway? Some sort of goodwill tour? Or, has England, historically, had trouble reading maps?
You don't know how lame, at the end of all this, your comment is. I guess that's why you had the nerve to make it. Your country's dealings with Ireland are no secret my friend. Neither is Britain's treatment of "wogs" is it - Africans. Go sell that soft soap to someone else. Oh, I know why... "We don't do that anymore." Yeah, right. 1776
We like to invade places, keep them for a while then give them back, but the people of NI did not want to go back to a united ireland,with the assistance of france some people got a bit ****ed off so we had to station troops there. Why would we protect a Catholic minority? we have been a protostant country since medieval times and thats where the whole problem with ireland stems from. I fail to see how as a american u can challenge Britain on Slave Trade, we did not invent it, we got the idea from those dutch folk. we abolshied slavery in 1838. where as america did not untill 1865.
Originally by: SPQRMocton
We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
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Trek
Minmatar N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:20:00 -
[137]
Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
And for the "taser is safe"-crowd, there is a great report by Amnesty I think it was dealing with permanent damages and deaths to taser victims. Interesting reading! (if you dare to read such stuff considering the current climate over there) --- My other ship is a Reaper
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:29:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Trek Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
You left out the part where the staff asked him to leave nicely because he was being disruptive and then wouldn't stop talking. Then the security had to escort him out, at which point he resisted and began fighting the university police. At which point they tackled him to put handcuffs on him. At which point he continued to resist, so they used a taser on him once.
If this was an episode of COPS and that guy in question was black and at a different public event, I bet people would be a lot less angered by it. But that's just a hunch really.
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Trek Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
You left out the part where the staff asked him to leave nicely because he was being disruptive and then wouldn't stop talking. Then the security had to escort him out, at which point he resisted and began fighting the university police. At which point they tackled him to put handcuffs on him. At which point he continued to resist, so they used a taser on him once.
If this was an episode of COPS and that guy in question was black and at a different public event, I bet people would be a lot less angered by it. But that's just a hunch really.
I think he watched a different video completely or something. Or their view of slightly annoying and beligerant are kinda mixed.
And for the other part well...Taser
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
bacon lite
O RLY corp YTMND.
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:12:00 -
[140]
I can't believe Kerry would just sit there like a jackass. Guess he'll probably blame Lag, or De-sync.
Anyway, can't believe I used to support that guy, goes to show those in power never deserve it.
-bacon
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Tarquin Tarquinius
Gallente Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:19:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Tarquin Tarquinius on 19/09/2007 03:25:02
Originally by: Trek Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
And for the "taser is safe"-crowd, there is a great report by Amnesty I think it was dealing with permanent damages and deaths to taser victims. Interesting reading! (if you dare to read such stuff considering the current climate over there)
He's the one who resorted to violence first. The police were going to take him out and he fought them.
...and what is this bull**** about the "american way"...as if the European (or any other group) way is any better? Weren't there huge riots in Europe a couple years ago do to heavy handed police actions?
Tasers aren't necessarily "safe" they are simply the "safest." Physical force and pepperspray are both more likely to cause serious injury. Spraying caustic chemicals in someone's eyes is not preferable to a few jolts of electricity.
Originally by: bacon lite I can't believe Kerry would just sit there like a jackass. Guess he'll probably blame Lag, or De-sync.
Anyway, can't believe I used to support that guy, goes to show those in power never deserve it.
Kerry has stated that he didn't know the guy had been tasered. He also said that the police should of just let him say his piece and he eventually would of left.
There really isn't anything Kerry could of done. Interfering with police during an arrest is a felony in many places. (I'm not a Kerry fan btw) ------ wait...what? |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:37:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Trek Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
Right you are! It really is shocking that this individual resorted to swinging and carrying on crazy and had to be appropriately subdued. I'm not sure why he had to resort to violence so quickly.
Originally by: Trek
And for the "taser is safe"-crowd, there is a great report by Amnesty I think it was dealing with permanent damages and deaths to taser victims. Interesting reading! (if you dare to read such stuff considering the current climate over there)
The report is obviously biased. It admits that corroners consistently attribute tazer related deaths to other factors (drugs, existing heart problems, etc)...and then makes a mountain out of a molehill over "some" corroners concerns that tasers "might" be a factor.
Hardly a convincing argument that tazers are unsafe.
And let's face it: a handful of university cops dealing with an unruly student is as much an indicator that America is turning into a police state as this thread here is an indicator that Eve fosters an attitude of anarchism. After all, the American Press themselves are the ones being allowed to blow this massively out of proportion.
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Jago Kain
Amarr Ramm's RDI
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:42:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius He's the one who resorted to violence first. The police were going to take him out and he fought them.
Violence? You mean struggling not to be thrown out of the place? Didn't see him hit or threaten to hit anyone in the various versions of the vids.
Again, not sure how it works in the states, but in the UK, if a copper (or anyone else for that matter) so much as lays a hand on you without due cause, it's assault and the law allows you to defend yourself from them using reasonable force.
Technically this means that you too are guilty of assault, but you plead self-defence in court and if this is the case, you should be acquitted.
I do not think that the force the guy used (struggling to avoid being taken out) was unreasonable and the reaction of the coppers was way over the top.
The next revolution won't be televised; it'll be pod-cast. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:53:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Jago Kain
Violence? You mean struggling not to be thrown out of the place?
As a matter of fact, yes. He was asked by law enforcement officers attempting to keep some sort of order first to ask his question and be done, and, when that failed, to leave. Then he was escorted a few steps away from the microphone quite reasonably, and then he went ballistic.
There was a very basic, clearly articulable escelation of force used by the officers...in response to clearly articulable escelations on the part of the individual in question.
Originally by: Jago Kain
in the UK, if a copper (or anyone else for that matter) so much as lays a hand on you without due cause, it's assault and the law allows you to defend yourself from them using reasonable force.
That's not at all how it works in the states.
Basic rule in law enforcement: "ask them, tell them, make them." Those officers were there to keep some semblance of order. Perhaps they could have let the guy make his scene, but they chose not to. Their choice not to was not illegal and not unreasonable. Their steady escelation of force to subdue his fit was also not illegal and not unreasonable.
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:00:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jago Kain
Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius He's the one who resorted to violence first. The police were going to take him out and he fought them.
Violence? You mean struggling not to be thrown out of the place? Didn't see him hit or threaten to hit anyone in the various versions of the vids.
This has been stated many times in this thread already. It's called resisting an officer of the law. So goes from simply blocking them in their task to assualt. When an officer asks you to leave the building then you leave the building. If you don't comply then you are resisting.
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
SigmaPi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:17:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari ...and my mother wants to know why I dont like going to the US of A.
No offense to US players here, just that I'd not like being tazered for being intelligent and assertive enough to ask the right questions.
I am from the US, and I have seen lots of comments like this both on youtube, and here, and on news sites.
The student was not tazed for asking john kerry a question... he was tazed for resisting arrest. If the kid had gone outside and calmed down a little bit and then came back inside to ask another question, there would have been no problem. Instead, the guy acted like a spoiled brat who crys when he doesnt get the right present from his parents on christmas. People here comment on how US people need to open their eyes... I think its you all who are blinded. Why whould anyone get the 'right' to resist arrest.
The kid is the only person at fault for what happend to him. If a police officer asks you to go outside and calm down, you do it. When you are warned to stop resisting arrest or you will get tazed and you keep resisting... what the crap do you think is going to happen?
I'm just glad I wasnt there, or I woulda punched the ****** in the face.
/Siggy
SigmaPi Cutting Edge Incorporated Executive Commander RAZOR Alliance
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SigmaPi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:25:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Trek Terrifying stuff... Sure he might have been a bit anoying, but that is definetley not reason to assault the guy. Reasonable people can solve stuff like that without resorting to violence, but I guess that is the "american way" after all.
And for the "taser is safe"-crowd, there is a great report by Amnesty I think it was dealing with permanent damages and deaths to taser victims. Interesting reading! (if you dare to read such stuff considering the current climate over there)
I dont know anything a bout the tests you speak of, but i do know that before any police officer in the US is issued a taser they must go through the episode of being tazed themselves. Same thing with tear gas and peper spray. Police dont just randomly walk around tazing people, they know the feeling it causes to the person.
SigmaPi Cutting Edge Incorporated Executive Commander RAZOR Alliance
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:43:00 -
[148]
this is the only compliance tool I need
Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: TheDagda *click* For the love of the jovians stops necroing
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Rauth Kivaro
Forum Moderator
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:52:00 -
[149]
Real life politics. Locking.
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