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Need for balance between hunter and prey

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Author	Topic
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:00:00 - [1] All of you that have been roaming 0.0 in the hunt for npcers and small gangs to fight for a few years has likely noticed the same change as i have. 0.0 ncpers(90% ravens and domis) are getting increasingly harder to catch. Accualy not due to changed by ccp but because of normal players adoption of the "farmer" way of playing eve. Ofcuase ccp has helped to make 0.0 safer and safer with poses, jump drives, and now jump brigdes. But the problem mainly lies on the fact that its so easy to escape a solo or even a gang of roamers if you use the current game mechanics right. You just keep aligning out and warp when local bumps... then hit the cloak and go afk for 10min until the enemy are gone, its so damn easy! if you wanna play it even easier just ctrl+q. A year or even half a year you normal had the chance to atlest try to prob the npcer, but nowdays its just no point briging a prober with you.. if the prey doest cloak you can be sure ¦he¦ll be at a pos(thats now **** easy to keep running with use of carriers and the bigger fueltank) Tbh if your going out on a roam with the goal to fight some npcers and make abit of isk, you can only rly hope to catch total noobs or people going afk in belt. And sometimes when your very lukcy the rats got¦the target scrammed, but that will to 99% end in ctrl+q:P I think there needs to be a change to how the "getting out of harms way" mechanic works, because with the current farmer style npcing its too easy. I like the idea of cloaks using fuel, and maybe add some sort of npc agro timer to that. Dont get me wrong tho.. am not saying a roamer should have an easy time catching npcers, they should have a fair chance of getting away, but not everytime as now. I¦ve literally jumped into a systems and scanned a raven within 3-4secs after loading and warped to his belt in a sabre without even seeing his ship by the time i land, then a few secs later his cloaked and all hope if catching him are gone. This happens several times everyday, should¦t be that easy to run. /whine ------------------------------
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:02:00 - [2] You're hunting in the wrong areas of 0.0 - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:08:00 - [3] It's stupid to whine about not being able to gank enough noobs ... If even NPCers and miners get away from you, you should go back to empire and wardec people or so, as you are not fit for real fights (vs. non-NPCers) and have trouble even with moderately intelligent NPCers. So either grow some balls and pick real PVP fights (vs. other roaming gangs) or try empire wardecs, lowsec hunting and the like. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Lazuran It's stupid to whine about not being able to gank enough noobs ... If even NPCers and miners get away from you, you should go back to empire and wardec people or so, as you are not fit for real fights (vs. non-NPCers) and have trouble even with moderately intelligent NPCers. So either grow some balls and pick real PVP fights (vs. other roaming gangs) or try empire wardecs, lowsec hunting and the like. wow, sounds to me like you have next to none 0.0 experience. am not talking about noobs here, am talking about ordinary 0.0 alliance players. To get a good fight with them you noramly have to ctach and kill a npcer to start with ------------------------------
Ragstar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:35:00 - [5] Most semi-organised alliances will have intel channels and scouts etc - so you were probably lucky to even spot that that raven still in the belt. He probably had warning and hit warp before you even jumped in. (Ravens don't enter warp that fast.) If someone isn't watching the intel channels, that's usually when they get caught. It happens more than it should, but then people get lazy. Loosing high value ratting ship with T2 mods will make sure you don't get sloppy for a while. I know areas where its possible to gank ratters/missioners reasonably regularly - and where you can get a small PvP gang encounter if you want it. Personally I think going after ratters is cheap - I'd rather take on a small gang of peple looking for PvP (with a roughly equivalent gang myself of course!) Not saying I wouldn't pop a hostile ratter if I happened across one mind - just that its not what I look for. But they're not that hard to find TBH ... Maybe you've over farmed the area for a bit, and need to let stks recover?
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:44:00 - [6] Edited by: Silverized on 19/09/2007 12:44:33 Its not like am only going looking for cheap ganks:) i just think 0.0 are way to safe as its currently working. Ofcause i prefer a fight, but am mainly talking about solo roaming here. And tbh its very uncommon you find other solo players that 1v1s you, what you find are gangs, noramly 5-10 people that you cant take on solo. Maybe kill a tackler then leave. What am saying is that just as you can perfecly solo npc in 0.0 you should be given the chance to solo pvp with a slightly better outcome then what you generaly get today ------------------------------
Major Death Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:52:00 - [7] I feel jipped, normally this type of thread is by someone complaining about getting ganked. Maybe CCP are getting the balance right after all? My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was remove for lack of EVE content! ;)
Aerandir Telrunya Gallente Bears Inc FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Silverized ... But the problem mainly lies on the fact that its so easy to escape a solo or even a gang of roamers if you use the current game mechanics right... The counter argument to that is that if you do manage to get them scrammed what are their chances of taking you out? I'd say quite low as you will obviously not pick a fight you can't possibly win and even if you do start to lose the fight you can always warp out (how many ratters do you know carry a scram?) Yes its easy and 'relatively' safe to rat in 0.0 as running away is so easy but if it wasn't then some change would have to be made (don't ask me what) in order to give ratters/miners the chance of killing you too! As it is pvp/pirating obviously favors the agressor (you) and so if they couldn't run and hide then no one would rat anyway and so you still couldn't get any kills! Your best bet is probably to do the same as them and when they cloak and go afk, you do the same (maybe in a belt) and wait for them to start ratting again THEN gank them.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:54:00 - [9] Whiny pirates are funny. Yarrrrr!!!! (cries) Yarrrrrr!!!! Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:56:00 - [10] This is exactly how it should work. How else would it work? Warp drive has a chance to fail... that's just silly. Besides if you give them some kind of chance based system for them to get away or not you would have to change it so that warp scrambler has a chance to fail. ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."

Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:05:00 - [11] am not sugesting a chance based sytstem... but maybe something like a warpcore you have to load and warp insteed of alignment.. and i also like the idea of fuel consuming cloaks. And lets be fair.. its more risky to run lvl4s in lowsec then it is to npc in 0.0 ------------------------------
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:08:00 - [12] You know what is funny? The gankers (at least those I meet) are all doing exactly the same. They fly uncatchable nanocrap and thus can pretty much everytime escape from those setting out to meet them (unless they mess up). I am so sick and tired of seeing those ***wagons (mainly**abonds and Ishtars) going ridiculous speeds... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Leandro Salazar You know what is funny? The gankers (at least those I meet) are all doing exactly the same. They fly uncatchable nanocrap and thus can pretty much everytime escape from those setting out to meet them (unless they mess up). I am so sick and tired of seeing those ***wagons (mainly**abonds and Ishtars) going ridiculous speeds... I agree with this, pvp en general has become to easy to avoid, no matter if its a npcer or a ganker. I¦d like to see more risk being a pvper going into hostile territory on the hunt for prey.. and the prey should also run a higher chance of getting into fights. If ccp could find a way to accomplish this, i think eve would become a funnier game for everyone ------------------------------
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:18:00 - [14] Wow . Prey adapts. So now you want CCP to handicap them so you can kill them. Question for ya: What happens when they adapt again? Will you again ask CCP to handicap them some more so you can again feel special when killing them? One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Captian Internet Lead Bricks	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Exlegion Wow . Prey adapts. So now you want CCP to handicap them so you can kill them. Question for ya: What happens when they adapt again? Will you again ask CCP to handicap them some more so you can again feel special when killing them? The "prey" have just learned that an ominpotent gtfo alarm is quite easy to use the only counter would be log on traps. . . lots and lots of log on traps Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:29:00 - [16] 0.0 ain't the best place to hunt for prey as it is where most often the most experienced players are. Experienced players are either professional 0.0 ratters, or alliance types that know how to hunt ratters and thus know the counters. I assure you that you don't get what you're complaining about in losec, although it might take you awhile to find a good hunting ground.
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:32:00 - [17] Edited by: Exlegion on 19/09/2007 14:34:09 Originally by: Captian Internet The "prey" have just learned that an ominpotent gtfo alarm is quite easy to use the only counter would be log on traps. . . lots and lots of log on traps "gtfo alarm"? They've learned to use chat channels as intel (just as the predators do btw). They've learned to align as soon as trouble brews. They're using their brains to counter you and this you find wrong how? It sounds to me like the OP wants the prey to just freeze up as soon as he shows up in local so he can kill at will. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Silverized Originally by: Lazuran It's stupid to whine about not being able to gank enough noobs ... If even NPCers and miners get away from you, you should go back to empire and wardec people or so, as you are not fit for real fights (vs. non-NPCers) and have trouble even with moderately intelligent NPCers. So either grow some balls and pick real PVP fights (vs. other roaming gangs) or try empire wardecs, lowsec hunting and the like. wow, sounds to me like you have next to none 0.0 experience. am not talking about noobs here, am talking about ordinary 0.0 alliance players. To get a good fight with them you noramly have to ctach and kill a npcer to start with If you want fights in 0.0, move into a busy area with NPC stations and base out of there. The locals will fight you or bugger off. If you are not looking for fights, but just cheap ganks like you seem to, I have nothing more to tell you. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:32:00 - [19] Remove the omniscience of local. If they can't see you in the channel, they can't see you coming. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:44:00 - [20] What you want is un-fixable unless they take out local. Because the prey should always have 100% chance to run away if they _know_ you're coming. They just shouldn't have 100% chance to know you're coming, and with current local they do. ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."

Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:15:00 - [21] I feel for the op cause this has gotten totally out of hand. This is 0.0 it should be extremely hard for you to stay there unless you want to fight it out. They getting away without murder (see the irony :P) and there are isk farmers everywhere. Even without the cloak you can still farm isk without worries. Cloaking just frustrates the hunter.
Ollie TT	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:19:00 - [22] If you want to farm the crap out of a system 23/7 then you should have to defend it with pvp capable ships. Providing your own "concord" so to speak. Not just sit and watch local... watch local... watch local... RED SQUARE!!! LOG OFF!!! It is lame easy mode isk making, Im not asking for easy mode ganking I just want a reasonable time frame to scan and warp to a target in.
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Silverized Originally by: Lazuran It's stupid to whine about not being able to gank enough noobs ... If even NPCers and miners get away from you, you should go back to empire and wardec people or so, as you are not fit for real fights (vs. non-NPCers) and have trouble even with moderately intelligent NPCers. So either grow some balls and pick real PVP fights (vs. other roaming gangs) or try empire wardecs, lowsec hunting and the like. wow, sounds to me like you have next to none 0.0 experience. am not talking about noobs here, am talking about ordinary 0.0 alliance players. To get a good fight with them you noramly have to ctach and kill a npcer to start with If you want fights in 0.0, move into a busy area with NPC stations and base out of there. The locals will fight you or bugger off. If you are not looking for fights, but just cheap ganks like you seem to, I have nothing more to tell you. I have lived in 0.0 npc station for ages and I¦ve been around both north and south. if you read my post it says that i want balance, not cheap ganks of some ******** npcers. building a 0.0 empire should involve daily patrols and defenses of your own carebears but with the current system thats not needed. So what the easyness of npcing in 0.0 does is reducing pvp overall because protection gangs are¦t needed, and you wont catch many npcers. Am also basing this post on statistics from the outbreak killboard where i have kills recorded for about 9 months, and you can see a steady decrease in the everyday roaming kills even tho my playtime has been about the same. If you¦ve ever meet an isk farmer witch i doubt with your attitude, you¦d know the frustration it causes. And ofcause i dont blame people for using this tactic because is there and easy to take advantage off, hell am using it myself. But it should¦t be like that. ------------------------------
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Janus Duo 0.0 ain't the best place to hunt for prey as it is where most often the most experienced players are. Experienced players are either professional 0.0 ratters, or alliance types that know how to hunt ratters and thus know the counters. I assure you that you don't get what you're complaining about in losec, although it might take you awhile to find a good hunting ground. Heres my point.. 0.0 are far from the best place to pvp atm, but i should be a great place for pvp if ccp could get the mechanics right. ------------------------------
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:19:00 - [25] In my opinion ive always flet it was the "a cloak on every ship including frigs and cruisers" approach which is ruining pvp in 0.0. Usually if you dont find the target in system within the first 20 seconds he will be safed and cloaked. I dont think cloaks need nerfing in the way they work but instead i think fitting cloaks on ships which arent intended to use them should be more nerfing to your setup. This should also help with famers ratting 24/7 in space as it should at least increase your chance of catching them.
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Firkragg In my opinion ive always flet it was the "a cloak on every ship including frigs and cruisers" approach which is ruining pvp in 0.0. Usually if you dont find the target in system within the first 20 seconds he will be safed and cloaked. I dont think cloaks need nerfing in the way they work but instead i think fitting cloaks on ships which arent intended to use them should be more nerfing to your setup. This should also help with famers ratting 24/7 in space as it should at least increase your chance of catching them. ye indeed, it needs a change in someway. This would also help dispose of the ISK selling problem we¦r seeing. ISK selling can mostly exist because when farming 0.0 rats you can be half asleep without risking to much:) maybe delying local in 0.0 as sugested would be a good idea as well. Only needs to be 1-2mins, and that should make recons and coverts more usefull and add some pressure on the one npcing.that would prolly also make gang fighting more intesting as scouts would get a new meaning ------------------------------
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:28:00 - [27] Eh, was going to say something, but it really doesn't matter. In the end the "prey" will still adapt, whether it is by escaping you, staying in high sec, or quitting the game. And you will still be frustrated over not getting enough kills for your board and you will still complain to CCP. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Silverized Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Exlegion Eh, was going to say something, but it really doesn't matter. In the end the "prey" will still adapt, whether it is by escaping you, staying in high sec, or quitting the game. And you will still be frustrated over not getting enough kills for your board and you will still complain to CCP. this is a bloody pvp game... if you rly want to avoid pvp that badly you better quit anyway:) ------------------------------
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:46:00 - [29] I've seen this trend too. I never thought I'd say this, but the only solution I see is to remove local from 0.0 or delay it. If you can't scan the target from the gate you jumped in through he'll be gone when you arrive at the next part of the system. Doesn't matter how good you are at scanning. Just delaying local 20 seconds would make me happy.
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:50:00 - [30] As said, the way to catch an npcer that cloaks is: 1. Get a gang, preferably everyone with a point. 2. Choose a system with an npcer cloaked up. 3. All choose a different belt, and log off. 4. Chat about stuff on vent or ts. 5. 1/2 an hour or so login, chances are they would have gone back to ratting. Not a cast iron method i admit, but one that has a higher success rate than currently jumping into a system and searching the belts. Ofc this method requires you to stop playing the game to play the game you want, geddit?

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