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Bongolus
Gallente Black Sheep Enterprises Spear 0f Destiny
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Posted - 2007.09.20 00:13:00 -
[1]
Hi,
i just found this threat: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=594761
1.) Occator BPO ME10 PE5 current bid 15 b 2.) Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2 BPO ME1 PE7 current bid 17 b
How can one make so many money that he can spend 15 or 17 billion for a single bpo, without owning at least one t2 bpo himself? If u now think this bids come from some big 0.0 corps you are wrong. Both bidders are in corps with less than 10 members.
Where is the fairness for all the peeps that haven't had the luck to win in the fu**ing lottery and are now stuck with overpriced and unworthwile inventions?
In my opinion there are only 2 ways to make the t2 market fair again, either make npcs sell t2 bpo or take 'em complete out of the game.
I don't read this forum often and i can imagine this topic would have been discused in some more threats. It's just something that is on my mind and i can imagine there are a lot more peeps out there who share my opinion.
Greetz Bongolus -------------------------------------------------- Rule the hell or serve in heaven! |
sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.20 00:14:00 -
[2]
making isk is easy in eve I have like billions and I have'nt really earned anythingin years.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Macdeth
Ephemeral Misgivings
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Posted - 2007.09.20 00:16:00 -
[3]
Use your imagination a little more in looking for opportunities, perhaps.
I cleared 100b long before I had anything T2-related, and that was a couple years of 'it is way easier to make isk as time goes by' ago.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.20 00:32:00 -
[4]
The OP is deluding himself if he thinks that all 0.0 alliances do their t2 business using characters that are in their alliance. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.09.20 00:35:00 -
[5]
why are you allowed to post on the forums?
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein
A blog of truth (not mine)
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Bongolus
Gallente Black Sheep Enterprises Spear 0f Destiny
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Posted - 2007.09.20 01:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval why are you allowed to post on the forums?
Who allowed you to make silly postings?
At least i've explained my question, your post is just crap ... -------------------------------------------------- Rule the hell or serve in heaven! |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.09.20 01:55:00 -
[7]
Some of those bidders are reps of large, rich corps, backed by such resources as a large, rich corp can provide. There are perfectly legitimate reason to not be seen bidding 17B on a T2 BPO. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |
Jamie 315
Yet Another CAOD Inspired 1 Woman Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.20 02:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bongolus
Originally by: Celeste Coeval why are you allowed to post on the forums?
Who allowed you to make silly postings?
At least i've explained my question, your post is just crap ...
Funny thing is your the one that is posting crap. The people with the bpos won them in a lottery that was closed so everyone could get a fair chance (btw your from 05, which means you have had a while to try and win the lottery, did you even try?). If you release t2 bpos on the market it will destroy invention (oops cause and effect). Which will hurt so many people that your small mind can not even begin to understand.
T2 bpos used to equal lots and lots of isky in production (3b to 4b a week with a hulk bpo profit). Now they still make some nice profits but nothing compared to what they used to make.
Those BPOs are only worth isk to 0.0 alliances (like the ones bidding on it). They don't want to flip the bill for invention and have it possibly fail. They want to be able to click build on any BPO and have it be done asap. Thats why the bpo of a t2 item is worth allot. Now if you look at the profit margin of the bpo you will see yes its a nice profit, but not end of the world.
Life ain't fair so why should eve be fair? Should every alliance hold equal space and lose equal amounts of isk in fights and have equal memebers with equal numbers with equal skills with equal standings to caldari state? NO.
If you can not figure out how to make isk well tough luck, don't try and get someone to tell you how to. You failed at invention and you want to take it out on the bpo holders? Bitterness I geuss. What did you try to invent anyway? Recruiting is open |
prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.20 06:18:00 -
[9]
actually the op makes some very good points and its true but really we should'nt just nerf tech 2 bpos we should turn all t-1 bpo's into copies as well because it's unfair to newbies who have to buy copies from bpo owners to produce ships
in fact people who can afford tech 2 ships should also be nerfed because it unfair so all tech 2 items should be nerfed to t-1 items and while were at it just because somebody has more sp than me shouldn't mean they can fly better ships then me i want to be able to fly all ships in eve including titan so all ships should be 1 isk and have no skill reqs .
pls ccp dont make me work for anything just hand it to me and take everything anybody ever worked for away from them to make me happy ......
there that should cover it ....
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.20 06:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/09/2007 06:34:02 If you are surprised by the tone of the replyes, this are the reasons:
- the topic has bee talked to death more than once (yesterday there was a 3 pages thread in the first page of this forum) and opening another thread instead of using the browser and searching for one of the previous thread is lazy;
- your tone imply that what really fuel you is the green eyed monster, envy (how some player ose to have 15 billions);
- your solution don't resolve anything.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.20 06:54:00 -
[11]
T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day...
Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before...
___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
MattSB
Domination. League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Laboratus T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day...
Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before...
*DING* we have a winner
Basically invention is wicked i use it myself to make ze iskies, but it is only good on modules that cost a certain amount or more due to the added costs of inventing and the need to be able to absorb a string of failures.
This means invention is useless on t2 modules that cost next to nothing, such as say the t2 mining crystals or i dunno t2 small smartbombs :P Invention is a means to control the prices of T2 so they don't become stupidly inflated and not a way to produce all T2 in game ...
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:30:00 -
[13]
Because you touch yourself at night
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Anson Halleck
Lost Eden
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Anson Halleck on 20/09/2007 08:34:19
Originally by: Bongolus
How can one make so many money that he can spend 15 or 17 billion for a single bpo, without owning at least one t2 bpo himself? If u now think this bids come from some big 0.0 corps you are wrong. Both bidders are in corps with less than 10 members.
Where is the fairness for all the peeps that haven't had the luck to win in the fu**ing lottery and are now stuck with overpriced and unworthwile inventions?
I never won T2 lottery and I still managed to earn enough ISK to buy T2 BPOs. How? Instead of whinning on forums, I worked in game to make my ISK. Therefore I don't really appreciate your request to remove T2 BPOs just becouse you are lazy and jealous, it took me quite a long time to get them.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:48:00 -
[15]
The way T2 BPO's were introduced was a mistake.
I doubt anyone playing EvE disagrees with that.
What about the people who got BPO's you say.
Yes we think it was a mistake how they were introduced too.
The problem with the introduction method was that it was a completely random distribution method that required very little if any real effort.
That said it is at the moment very hard for CCP to simply remove the BPO's.
From the moment they were introduced they were a resource and from the moment they were introduced they were like you said bought and sold.
Now that many many BPO's have changed hands for extremely high prices it is hard for CCP to simply say that they will remove them.
The only comparable item that has been in the game is the old infinite BPC's that were produced and sold early in the games history.
People bought infinite BPC's to BS's and such at very high prices as they were infinite, when they decided it was a bad idea to allow infinite copies thousands were already in circulation and represented a factual value.
Despite the whole comunity knowing that the copies were to be removed CCP still waited over 2 years before actually turning them into very VERY high run BPC.
Thus in short...
I fully expect my and others T2 BPO "monopoly" to be removed at some point in the future however I also expect that future to be far away.
My guess is around the time of T3 introduction, especially if T3 requires T2 to manufacture.
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Nyack
GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:05:00 -
[16]
only way to actually remove t2 bpos woudl be to make em into high run bpc worth 1-2years production of said item. easy multiply the build time of an item to cover 1-2years as most bpos are valued after that on auctions..i guess that will be done as soon as invetion is stabilized and balanced even further.
sure that solution would take 1-2 years but then those bpo:s would out of the game..
but as someone said removing them would destabilize the market alot when u remove base production..
but i guess this is why they hired that economist..
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Bongolus
Gallente Black Sheep Enterprises Spear 0f Destiny
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jamie 315 (btw your from 05, which means you have had a while to try and win the lottery, did you even try?)
Currently i'm running 5 Agents with something around 200k of r&d points.
Originally by: Jamie 315 If you release t2 bpos on the market it will destroy invention. Which will hurt so many people that your small mind can not even begin to understand.
I don't release t2 bpos on the market. Why should it hurt people? Because they can't buy a bpo? All they will lose is the money they spend in the invention items but as most of the people in this threat say it's no problem to make money in eve. So where is the problem?
Originally by: Jamie 315 Life ain't fair so why should eve be fair? Should every alliance hold equal space and lose equal amounts of isk in fights and have equal memebers with equal numbers with equal skills with equal standings to caldari state? NO.
That's just plain stupid and no base for a discussion.
Originally by: Anson Halleck I never won T2 lottery and I still managed to earn enough ISK to buy T2 BPOs. How? Instead of whinning on forums, I worked in game to make my ISK. Razz Therefore I don't really appreciate your request to remove T2 BPOs just becouse you are lazy and jealous, it took me quite a long time to get them.
If i had spend my days in an overcrowded empire, trading or running missions, i'll surley would own 1 or 2 t2 bpos myself. But that's not my way to play this game.
The point is, nearly all parts of the game force players to work as a team. T2 bpos give single players the possibilities to grow rich without teamwork which doesn't make sense.
You say i'm jealous, i'll say t2 bpo owners are selfish.
Originally by: Venkul Mul - the topic has bee talked to death more than once (yesterday there was a 3 pages thread in the first page of this forum) and opening another thread instead of using the browser and searching for one of the previous thread is lazy;
Lazy as i am:
Originally by: Bongolus I don't read this forum often and i can imagine this topic would have been discused in some more threats. It's just something that is on my mind and i can imagine there are a lot more peeps out there who share my opinion.
-------------------------------------------------- Rule the hell or serve in heaven! |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:45:00 -
[18]
They should have removed them already in my honest opinion. There is simply no reason to allow them to remain at this point. Invention is to the point that it could easily take up the slack now.
All allowing them has done is to allow those t2 holders to make more profit than what is allowed through invention. Invention requires more effort, and therefore should have a greater reward.
Hopefully they will remove them all in Revelations III, it is long overdue.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:07:00 -
[19]
Personaly I beleive that all T2 BPO should be converted to high run BPC and invention changed to invent very very low ME/PE BPO... It makes sense dosen't it? People actualy work more for getting a low run T2 bpc than running a few hundred missions (if that) and getting a T2 BPO in a lottery later on. I know people would scream about how much their spanking new T2 BPO cost them but adapt or die
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
Post with your alt.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Laboratus T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day...
Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before...
Winner.
That's what you'll see for T2 goods that don't have a BPO. That's where the inventors have a real chance of decent profit... ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
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Brisi
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:11:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Brisi on 20/09/2007 10:12:07
Originally by: Laboratus T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day...
Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before...
Quoted for emphasis. Please read this carefully.
And btw, I did research myself and never got a BPO either. The lottery was a joke and invention was the way to fix it, and fixed it has been. So you want the BPO's to disappear out of pure envy? Oh buhu, grow up please. People worked their asses off to buy those bpo's, and now they've paid billions for them, should they just let them go because you're ****y about not getting one?
If you think that the people with the BPO's now are the people who won them in the lottery, you're mistaken. Some people might have kept theirs, but the vast majority of tech II bpo's have switched hands at least once.
I've never won the 55 million dollar jackpot in real life either, but I am really envious of the people who have, so lets remove their prices to make me feel better?
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: MattSB
Originally by: Laboratus T2 BPOs provide a low production cost base supply for T2 items. Those in combination with the higher production cost invention items provide you with the low cost T2 market of the day...
Take away the base supply, and the prices will skyrocket like never before...
*DING* we have a winner
Basically invention is wicked i use it myself to make ze iskies, but it is only good on modules that cost a certain amount or more due to the added costs of inventing and the need to be able to absorb a string of failures.
This means invention is useless on t2 modules that cost next to nothing, such as say the t2 mining crystals or i dunno t2 small smartbombs :P Invention is a means to control the prices of T2 so they don't become stupidly inflated and not a way to produce all T2 in game ...
emm.. NO make invention alot easyer to do instead.
bpo t2 should be removed from the game since they are more then lamely unbalanced.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: El'Niaga Invention requires more effort, and therefore should have a greater reward.
It already has a much bigger reward compared to the initial investment. If you buy a t2 BPO it takes 9-12 months on average to break even on the investment, invention can start to net a profit in 1 day already.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:26:00 -
[24]
If the T2 BPO's are to remain in the game, then I think the invention success rate or the dice roll calculations need to be tweaked slightly. I also think that the BPC ME/PE levels used should affect the output.
While I agree invention is there to help control tech2 prices, to leave the tech2 BPO's in game creates a massive inequity. It's a **** sandwich, and someone somewhere is going to have to take a bite at some point.
I am very interested as to how CCP will approach this, although I suspect they haven't worked that one out either
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:28:00 -
[25]
Leave the T2 BPOs as they are, soon enough there will be T3 for you to whine about.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Amy Wang
Originally by: El'Niaga Invention requires more effort, and therefore should have a greater reward.
It already has a much bigger reward compared to the initial investment. If you buy a t2 BPO it takes 9-12 months on average to break even on the investment, invention can start to net a profit in 1 day already.
Depends, some things are just not viable to invent because the t2 bpo holders have just lowered their prices on some items to the point there is no way to recover your loss.
Also it is practically impossible to recover the cost of invention on day 1. You have to recover the cost of the data interface, datacores, extra time to train special skills to invent, cost of extra skills, base item (if you use one) and decryptor (if you use one). You then also have to figure in the loss of failed invention into the equation. Thus on many t2 items it is not really possible currently to make a profit through invention.
This isn't to say you can't and on some items you can make a decent profit. However on many items, you cannot currently make a profit using invention.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain If the T2 BPO's are to remain in the game, then I think the invention success rate or the dice roll calculations need to be tweaked slightly. I also think that the BPC ME/PE levels used should affect the output.
While I agree invention is there to help control tech2 prices, to leave the tech2 BPO's in game creates a massive inequity. It's a **** sandwich, and someone somewhere is going to have to take a bite at some point.
I am very interested as to how CCP will approach this, although I suspect they haven't worked that one out either
I can agree with this sentiment
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:44:00 -
[28]
Err..
Remember gentlemen, that Tech 3 is coming at some point... If producing those items is anything like the progression in cloaks (T1, T2, cov ops) you will need T2 items to produce those. Now, if the base production of T2 items (BPOs) is removed, the work for producing a single T3 item is redicilous
You have to understand that the number of T2 BPOs released through the lottery was designed to a much smaller playerbase, than what we have today. At this time they produce a good base level of supply of low cost T2 items, but they cannot keep up to demand just by them selves. That is where the supply created by invention comes into the picture.
When T3 comes implemented through invention, the need for T2 items for the invention of T3 items, the demand for T2 items will skyrocket (since the success rate of invention is not too high...). Now the base level of supply from the T2 BPO builders is inflexible, they cannot increase their production amounts at all. This means the new demand can only be handled by the invention producers, and it will increase the profits they get from their items...
___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bongolus
Originally by: Venkul Mul - the topic has bee talked to death more than once (yesterday there was a 3 pages thread in the first page of this forum) and opening another thread instead of using the browser and searching for one of the previous thread is lazy;
Lazy as i am:
Originally by: Bongolus I don't read this forum often and i can imagine this topic would have been discused in some more threats. It's just something that is on my mind and i can imagine there are a lot more peeps out there who share my opinion.
Lazy as: you don't have even bothered to look the same page where you have posted. The thread I am referring to is still in the first page of the general discussion forum where you have posted.
Originally by: El'Niaga They should have removed them already in my honest opinion. There is simply no reason to allow them to remain at this point. Invention is to the point that it could easily take up the slack now.
All allowing them has done is to allow those t2 holders to make more profit than what is allowed through invention. Invention requires more effort, and therefore should have a greater reward.
Hopefully they will remove them all in Revelations III, it is long overdue.
I think that someone that has got a T2 BPO from the lottery in may 2007, paying the equivalent of huindred or thousand of datacores in RP, then training the relevant skills to produce it for some months (months where he could not copy or research the BPO, as the skill for doing that are even higher), will swear mightly if the BPO was removed in november 2007.
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Cornucopian
Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bongolus Hi,
i just found this threat: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=594761
1.) Occator BPO ME10 PE5 current bid 15 b 2.) Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2 BPO ME1 PE7 current bid 17 b
How can one make so many money that he can spend 15 or 17 billion for a single bpo, without owning at least one t2 bpo himself? If u now think this bids come from some big 0.0 corps you are wrong. Both bidders are in corps with less than 10 members.
Where is the fairness for all the peeps that haven't had the luck to win in the fu**ing lottery and are now stuck with overpriced and unworthwile inventions?
In my opinion there are only 2 ways to make the t2 market fair again, either make npcs sell t2 bpo or take 'em complete out of the game.
I don't read this forum often and i can imagine this topic would have been discused in some more threats. It's just something that is on my mind and i can imagine there are a lot more peeps out there who share my opinion.
Greetz Bongolus
why would CCP remove bobs moneyprinting machine, when they gave it to them in the first place?
(runs for the tinfoil hills) ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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