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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:17:00 -
[1]
I'm concerned with the recent rash of rather small time IPO's. What I'm thinking is that a few months ago someone got it their head they could scam the market with IPO's and set about making characters for that purpose.
This all may be mere coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidences. For this to work all the IPOs would need to be opened at relatively the same time to avoid spooking the investors with the first scam. The investors are not intimidated by the small IPOs because they are not loosing that much and essentially write it off from the beginning.
Unfortunately if one entity is behind these recent small fry IPOs then they will stand to make a decent windfall with the sacrifice of some otherwise throw away characters.
I think the market of investors has become too complacent with the recent lack of any real scam IPO.
Below is a screenshot of the employment history for recent IPO issuers.
Screenshot
Note: Genbuku has not filed an IPO, but the name and portrait were way to similar to Genbukan.
All of the above is why I won't be investing in any player corp in the near future. Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:25:00 -
[2]
I've been thinking the same thing. Though a few of the recent ones have found ways to guarantee their investments... so it would seem they aren't scams. But there definitely have been a lot of small ones and all of them have a somewhat similar feel to them. They all seem fairly trustworthy off-hand.
I am being very limited in my investments because of this.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shadarle I've been thinking the same thing. Though a few of the recent ones have found ways to guarantee their investments... so it would seem they aren't scams. But there definitely have been a lot of small ones and all of them have a somewhat similar feel to them. They all seem fairly trustworthy off-hand.
I am being very limited in my investments because of this.
Sheep among wolves.
//I realize I'm probably not making any friends with those holders, but that is their problem more then mine. Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here |
Mensageiro Cai
Connect Productions
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:47:00 -
[4]
I'm not on the list :(
I guess they could be scams, but to (hopefully) disprove any doubt I will be disclosing all characters attached to both of my accounts. I don't see any harm coming from it as i'm in no major alliances or political struggles - yet! |
Ambo
2nd Outcasters
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Posted - 2007.09.21 07:55:00 -
[5]
*steepled hands and sly expression*
Are you implying that I'm some sort of evil master mind?
*disarming fake smile*
Surely not?!
Anyway, I see your point, it does look a little fishy. I've already said I'm able to offer security if necessary so it's not really a problem for me.
I feel sorry for the others trying to get off the ground who cannot provide that but I feel I would also be very cautious of investing in some of these schemes. As you say, it's small enough to be considered a throwaway investment but I'd hate for scammers to get thier hands on any of my money purely on principle.
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cinderbrood
Caldari An Tir Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2007.09.21 08:06:00 -
[6]
I figured i better make a public response being part of the screenshot.
Now Id be more than happy to disclose all of my api keys for my accounts to my investors should they so wish. After noticing the alarming rate of small ipo's i also went and sought extra precautions and security measures while setting about my ipo. To the point of while not needing extra security as i already had the investors of which a large amount was already sitting in my hands. I Decided it wasnt enough and if i really wanted to make a go of this i should do it well And in a decent manner.
To the point i actually found a backer to back the entire asking amount of my ipo and lock it down in a trusted 3rd party. Did i have to ? No. Did it make me feel less inclined to do so ? No.
I Came to the forums with no background history so to speak ( at least none partaining or very usefull in my defence ). And Figured the only way to garner trust was to earn it as all trusted community members did. Now i also know that this alone wont gain majority trust either and it will take a damn site more work to get it. But i hope to see it as a start.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.09.21 08:17:00 -
[7]
Basically if you have 100% of the investment backed up through a trusted source then you really don't have to worry too much about anyone calling you a scam, since you clearly can't run away with peoples money. Granted there is a chance you won't pay out... but that's not a horrible loss compared to losing the initial investment.
It stinks... I was actually thinking of throwing out an IPO of my own, just for fun and to build up some level of trust among the community. But now with all these IPO's popping up I don't wanna just be lumped in with all them. Bleh. It would be nice to actually support the investor community a bit. Guess I'll have to see what happens with all these small IPO's first.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Tivern Maniva
Trust Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.21 08:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tivern Maniva on 21/09/2007 08:24:41
Originally by: Shadarle Basically if you have 100% of the investment backed up through a trusted source then you really don't have to worry too much about anyone calling you a scam, since you clearly can't run away with peoples money. Granted there is a chance you won't pay out... but that's not a horrible loss compared to losing the initial investment.
Agreed any one claiming i was a scam now would probally just be ignored and not answered. But i figured i should post just incase.
EDIT: For those not in the know. Cinderbrood is my main. This is my ipo alt.
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Kitex
Blacktag Test Labs
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Posted - 2007.09.21 08:45:00 -
[9]
I agree absolutely that I'm a little complacent with investments due to the recent lack of scams. I'm thinking you constitute the opposite end of the spectrum, and are probably being excessively paranoid.
Disregarding Genbukan (who's post really made no sense), I can see no possible connection between the other 3. None of the corp histories or creation dates are even remotely similar. There are no similarities in writing style. They each have searchable posting history that indicate different interests (aside from the common interest in the market discussions forum.)
Though the potential for risk is obvious and doesn't need to be restated, I'd be comfortable enough investing in all 3 (and likely will).
Your complacency point is a good one though, and could be proven by any forum regular who knows what investors look for in an IPO. You, or me, or any of a hundred different people who actively invest could bring an unknown alt with a year of employment history to this forum, present a well thought out (but fraudulent) business plan, and secure investments. We could do it because as investors, we know what investors want to hear, and how to sell it.
One thing I do know is that I don't want investments in EVE, most of which are generated through this forum, to turn into an exclusive club where those who have not previously run multi-billion isk IPO's need not apply. There are plenty of safe options out there at 5-10%, and I own a few of them. But I'd almost rather take a risk with the new guy who's fresh and eager and has a solid plan, and can offer 15-20%.
All I can do is trust my gut.
Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery! |
Kitex
Blacktag Test Labs
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Posted - 2007.09.21 08:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shadarle It stinks... I was actually thinking of throwing out an IPO of my own, just for fun and to build up some level of trust among the community. But now with all these IPO's popping up I don't wanna just be lumped in with all them. Bleh. It would be nice to actually support the investor community a bit. Guess I'll have to see what happens with all these small IPO's first.
It's funny, I've thought about this off and on as well. The little guy on my left shoulder is shouting "come on, it'd be fun!", while the little guy on my right is saying "business is good, you don't need it." The guy in the right is winning, but you never know.
Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery! |
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kitex
One thing I do know is that I don't want investments in EVE, most of which are generated through this forum, to turn into an exclusive club where those who have not previously run multi-billion isk IPO's need not apply. There are plenty of safe options out there at 5-10%, and I own a few of them. But I'd almost rather take a risk with the new guy who's fresh and eager and has a solid plan, and can offer 15-20%.
All I can do is trust my gut.
I actually fought against this "club" tooth and nail. I think Hexxx originally suggested it almost a year ago or so. I don't want one group of people having the say over whose IPO does and doesn't make it. What evolved from that are the particular questions every holder is expected to answer when they make their business plan. Then this forum picks apart their posts. Some people fold under the pressure and try to delete their posts about the IPO attempting to remove record of them.
I don't feel I'm being overly paranoid. I see patterns in things, when I notice a pattern I pay attention even more so. This is one of those cases. For some reason there have been an unusually large amount of IPOs lately. This could be due to recent attention this forum has received because of the new economist and other blog type things.
If none of these holders turn out to be scammers it makes no difference. What I do fear is people seeing how easy it is to drum up a couple billion through a fake IPO.
All I'm really asking for is a significant time investment in a reputation before asking people to invest. This problem can be laid at the feet of the investors who jumped on these bandwagons.
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here |
Tivern Maniva
Trust Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Would use pen and paper to do complex maths if a calculator could cut down time and effort and be a damn site more productive ?
Im a strong enthusiast in using every available resource to gain success. I wouldn't fight in an ibis when theres an opportunty to use a carrier would you ?
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Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tivern Maniva
Originally by: Dr Slurm
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Would use pen and paper to do complex maths if a calculator could cut down time and effort and be a damn site more productive ?
Im a strong enthusiast in using every available resource to gain success. I wouldn't fight in an ibis when theres an opportunty to use a carrier would you ?
So you're saying its pointless to learn how to do math on paper? Interesting. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Robacz on 21/09/2007 09:39:12
Am I blind or there is nothing suspicious on their employment histories?
EDIT: I mean, two of them seems to be alts, but I can't see anything connecting them or proving they are scammers.
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Tivern Maniva
Trust Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Originally by: Tivern Maniva
Originally by: Dr Slurm
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Would use pen and paper to do complex maths if a calculator could cut down time and effort and be a damn site more productive ?
Im a strong enthusiast in using every available resource to gain success. I wouldn't fight in an ibis when theres an opportunity to use a carrier would you ?
So you're saying its pointless to learn how to do math on paper? Interesting.
Not pointless no but given the opportunity to advance why not do so. If we stuck with what we knew best we would still be catching our food and eating it raw. did u start out in life catching food before u progressed to the supermarket shopping lark. Just to make sure u had a damn firm grasp on the base of it ?
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.21 09:59:00 -
[16]
Without any rock solid knowledge, from that screen shot and what I remember of their business plans I would say that:
Rhiraven Ambo Cinderbrood
are different people. EveTV has been talking about IPO's and public businesses a fair bit lately so that could be partially related. Plus I believe FIN-U opened a lot of people's eyes to public investments, with that and FIN piled on the 1st or 2nd pages of WTS forums for quite some time.
With the above 3 characters they have each had completely different ideas, different writing styles, and their operations have gone in different directions (plus they were all born on totally different dates and have varied corp history).
The Rhiraven character is the newest of the bunch and may very well fail, but he actually has an excellent business idea. Sponsor a noob and educate them in market politics.
While I wouldn't want to comment on the last 2 Gen's as they just scream of alts of each other, and their business plans are messy, i think the other 3 are legit and individuals.
Only time will tell, and the only real way to find out if someone is a scam or not, is to invest in them. Of course when the doubt outweighs the returns the corporation will not get off the ground.
For those new IPO owners: When this happens to you and the public are blasting you, you need to stop and consider:
* What am I offering that is unique? * If someone else had this business plan, would I give them my cash? * How can I secure my operations to promote investor confidence? * Do I really have the experience to pull this off, or am I taking a wild stab in the dark?
Many corporations have proven themselves and been far more successful when looking at ways to secure their operations.
* PSI was secured with a ton of Wylker's friends vouching for him * CAP4U was secured by locking down a good portion of bpo corporate assets * FIN was secured by locking down assets with alternate trustees in place * Cinder project was locked down with a friend footing collateral * EBANK will be secured with multiple leaders in charge and assets split or secured internally between trusted members
Really, there are plenty of ways to inject investor confidence in your business. For a very new player it can be far harder in which case they ask for a small amount and prove themselves before asking for more.
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Tailhook
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.21 10:38:00 -
[17]
Personally I find it sad if IPOs be only for experienced well established players.
A guy like Ricdic can drum up several bill in short order without telling anything about what he is planning with them, or going through the usual battering of ideas in here, perfectly understandable, but he could also just fund the whole thing himself too.
Younger players may not be able to, and some of the schemes they come up with may be undoable for them without funding, if they are REQUIRED to gurantee every isk of the IPO, they could just have used the guranteed funds directly for the most part.
Knowing full well the risks involved, I am willing to throw a few iskies to see them attempt success, but treating them just like undocking a ship, I would not hand over more than I could afford to loose.
In the end virtual trust only goes so far, and mostly based on guts, the very best presented plans detailing what I consider too much of their business plans in public, are just as likely to be scams as anything else.
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Daeva Vios
Ardent Adversary Anvil.
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Posted - 2007.09.21 11:04:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 21/09/2007 11:05:52 I think the paranoia may be a little thick. The fact is that if you're putting isk into an IPO that you don't want to lose, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
I guess this is the way I look at it because I've got the isk I've put into IPOs earmarked as "gambling money". When I play poker, I take only as much to the table as I am willing to lose that night. More often than not, I walk away with more than I came in with. Sometimes, I break even. Sometimes, I lose. In any event, it's a game and I've enjoyed myself immensely.
To address the above poster, I don't think this forum, or IPOs in general, are in danger of becoming an exclusive club. While it's true that some members of this forum can say "give me money and I may or may not return your investment plus such and such percent by such and such date" and get paid in billions, this is because they have largely proven themselves by displaying their knowledge and, in many cases, their track record with services.
If a newcomer wanted to command the same amount of money, they would need to prove themselves by showing they have the knowledge or at least a very firm idea of where they're going. If they believe in their own plan, it will show in their posts on the subject. I believe what investors look for in an IPO is a good plan and a firm belief that the plan will succeed.
It is by no means an exclusive club. You just need to know what the club is about, and that knowledge is readily available all over this forum.
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LaVista Vista
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.21 11:12:00 -
[19]
The paranoia is strong with this one.
Remember when i launched CAP4U? ZOMG It MUST be scam!
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Apple Blossom
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Posted - 2007.09.21 11:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Robacz Am I blind or there is nothing suspicious on their employment histories?
I'm mystified too. Apart from the Genbuku/Genbukan thing, what is the screenshot meant to show?
Apple
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Rhiraven
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Posted - 2007.09.21 12:15:00 -
[21]
This might not inspire the utmost confidence, but I gotta say...
If the rest of those guys ARE scammers, and this is kind of a line-up thing, then my portrait in the top left looks totally bad-ass.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.09.21 13:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tailhook Personally I find it sad if IPOs be only for experienced well established players.
This is one of those annoying disconnects that crop up all the time. I can only respond, "You weren't here when the entire community would regularly curse my name." I do not suggest to new players, or new people in this arena, anything I myself did not already do. My reputation began as a TTI stooge (Which unwittingly I was) then to a reporter (Even before Eve Guardian) and from there onward and upward. And that is just myself the public personae. I busted my ass to make sure that every in game dealing I had was above board and level. Every venture I have ever started, ipo or not, is always seconded and sponsored by people who have spent time with me in game. Be it on the line in some war, be it on the line mining endlessly, or just in fair trade over and over again. This was not for the sake of reputation mind you. I am a minister and a freemason. Both require that I maintain certain level of ethical behavior, thought, and action regardless of game or not game. IPO's require reputation to succeed. Such Reputation is built or borrowed. Most people who have the reputation to succeed with ipo's, or have the reputation to lend, earned it. So this statement: Originally by: Tailhook Personally I find it sad if IPOs be only for experienced well established players.
... disgusts me to my core. Only established characters have proven their nature. Or are you telling me that some cra ckhead down the street can open up a mortgage shop and you'll sign up right now? Puhleez! Now, just to be clear, I've always been about fostering interesting activities in Eve. Always. The IPO market needed some honest successes so I entered it. To show that there is trust that can be found, there is profit to be married to that trust, and to keep being active in the community instead of being a wallflower. (See, some for me and some for you.) So every once in a while I will run an ipo/bond project to demonstrate what I think the standards should be. Because I'm well established I have the know-how, the trust, and the experience to do just that. So go shove that "be more fair to new people" line of crap to a bunch of people that don't know better. It won't work around here.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.09.21 13:43:00 -
[23]
I don't see much connection between any of the characters in the screen shot other then gebuku/gebukan. I posted a screen shot of them all to say "Look at these people you are giving a couple billion".
Like Shar, I really question cinderbrood's long corp history. I'd like to point out this could still easily be a scam. He may be secured for 2bill, but as soon as the corp is worth more then that it becomes a moot point.
I suspect Ambo bought his character, but skill points could prove that wrong.
Rhiraven I had no conclusions on. I suspect that IPO is more well intended.
If there isn't a scam in this bunch, probably not from the looks of it, there will be a scam soon. This community will invest in anyone who can spin the right story.
Call me paranoid. I don't really care, but I do enjoy saying I told you so. Its best if I am wrong.
Originally by: Tivern Maniva
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Originally by: Tivern Maniva
Originally by: Dr Slurm
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Would use pen and paper to do complex maths if a calculator could cut down time and effort and be a damn site more productive ?
Im a strong enthusiast in using every available resource to gain success. I wouldn't fight in an ibis when theres an opportunity to use a carrier would you ?
So you're saying its pointless to learn how to do math on paper? Interesting.
Not pointless no but given the opportunity to advance why not do so. If we stuck with what we knew best we would still be catching our food and eating it raw. did u start out in life catching food before u progressed to the supermarket shopping lark. Just to make sure u had a damn firm grasp on the base of it ?
Because just like learning how to do math on paper before using a calculator you have to learn the basics. Learning enough to get yourself your own freighter and the capital to fill is part of that. If you can't make that much on your own why should you deserve someone's borrowed isk?
Or the other instance I love: "I just blew all my capital on a freighter, now I don't have enough ISK to fill it. Please invest in my IPO." Why in the hell would you invest in someone so fiscally irresponsible is beyond me. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.21 14:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Like Shar, I really question cinderbrood's long corp history. I'd like to point out this could still easily be a scam. He may be secured for 2bill, but as soon as the corp is worth more then that it becomes a moot point.
In which case investors get their initial cash back. Really this is a far better form of security than most public companies provide. If he had scammed through his corporations, why would one of his old ceo's foot the bill for security? Anyone who has done corporate/alliance ops generally knows that when you accept a scammer/thief it usually doesn't take long until you are advised by a previous ceo as such.
Regarding his corp history, I count 13 NPC corps, and 12 player corps. This is for a 2 year old player who has advised directly that he was in and out of eve for a couple of years. Generally CEO's kick inactives and this seems to follow that pattern.
Obviously it seems suss though, as I could be accused of the same thing, with 7 NPC corps and 8 player corps (and I only went away from eve once during my 3-4 years tenure.
I guess everyone will think what they want. But criticising the highest secured corporation out of that entire list the most is kind of silly if you ask me. Having said that, scam and failure have similar results. I would say scam won't happen (at least not in this phase), but failure is always possible.
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Tivern Maniva
Trust Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.21 14:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dr Slurm Like Shar, I really question cinderbrood's long corp history. I'd like to point out this could still easily be a scam. He may be secured for 2bill, but as soon as the corp is worth more then that it becomes a moot point.
As a like minded individual. I question why u have left any of the 10 ( 11 including starter corp ) Corp's u have left ? As i mentioned in my ipo topic. Ive ventured down alot fo diffrent career paths. Joined diffrent groups of freinds. And just had diffrent intrest's to the corp. Or should we all be bound to the noob corp from which we first started. Always fearing to leave just in case one day some one might call upon our corp history.
People Change . Freinds Change. Corps Change. Some times things change against your will and your forced to seek a new alternative.
Care to explain why u left your corps ?
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Mark Weston
Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.21 14:50:00 -
[26]
So the evidence we've collected so far is that.
There have been lots of small IPOs recently. (Don't forget that an increase in quantity is a "pattern".)
There are two characters with similarly spelt names.
And none of these IPOs have yet either failed or shown themselves to be scams.
From this startlingly conclusive evidence we are supposed to deduce that newer players aren't entitled to raise IPOs, and investors aren't entitled to give money to them, just in case they help foster an environment that might encourage a hypothetical future scammer.
Personally, I think I'm going to stick with judging individual investments on their merits.
New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Tailhook
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.21 14:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shar Tegral ... disgusts me to my core. Only established characters have proven their nature.
Or are you telling me that some crackhead down the street can open up a mortgage shop and you'll sign up right now? Puhleez!
If they were able to convince me they were legit - maybe, if they were sporting an IQ of 50, they would probably need a lot of cutting and pasting to do so
And I put my money were my mouth is, I have handed over half a bill to a guy with no established history in here.
I have been online enough to know peoples personal code of conduct may not reflect their online behavior, no virtual toon could ever convince me to trust them 100%, I would consider any invested isk to be at some sort of risk, no matter how well established the handler may be.
I am not trying to peddle any kind of behavior in here, I just expressed how I feel.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.09.21 15:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tivern Maniva Or should we all be bound to the noob corp from which we first started. Always fearing to leave just in case one day some one might call upon our corp history.
People should always be serious about their corp history. That is part of why it was added to the game. (Alot like the new alliance history). Such things matter plain and simple. For instance, comparing Ricdic's corp history to yours I see this:
Ricdic - Corp: Necronomica Time: 1 month Corp: Templar Insudstries Time: 1 year Corp: Dreadnought Productions Time: 1 year Corp: Eve Defence Force Time: 1 month Corp: Corporate Research and Production Pty Ltd. Time: 8 Months Corp: Kinda'Shujaa Time: 5 days
With you though I see very few times where you've been anywhere for very long at all. I do see alot of short time employments. Mind you this could be indicative of "often quitting Eve" syndrome (Bad as an IPO investment) or, crap at picking friends and/or partners (Bad as an IPO investment), or a long line of failed corp theft attempts (Bad as an IPO investment). When assessing things in eve is it far more critical to be critical. You may feel you deserve a fair chance. Every scam that has ever happened asked for a fair chance. Blame them, not us, for the crucible that is player investments. This does not mean that Cinderbrood is unsafe or untrustworthy. ATM 2 billion is in trust via Ebank, a situation I have voiced approval of within the confines of Ebank. This doesn't mean that things can't go badly but until 100% of investors funds are back in investor hands... no one is safe. Shucks, even after having collected and returned investor funds + returns (twice) I'm still not safe to all appearances. I'm just in a good position to pull an even bigger payday scam. Paranoia is good. Not admitting that you are being paranoid is... unhealthy.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Tivern Maniva
Trust Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.21 15:04:00 -
[29]
One things thats also got my curiosity with this. If as it seems. My ipo is one of most concern to Dr Slurm. Why is it mine is the only recent ipo where 100% of public investment has been accounted for with security measures incase of a scam ? Now sure its not 100% fool proof and yes i could invest that 2 billion steal that and run with what ever profits ive made to. then again i could turn out to be legit and Ricdic could run with teh two billion. Again not likely but then again i also know the chances of me running with my two billion. Considering my main could look into a corp hanger probally bordering on 5 - 6 billion isk in investment and run with that. ?
But if that was the case why wouldnt i have just accepted the two bill as funding and not continued with the ipo. Wouldnt it make sense i kept with one person. Ones alot easier to convince and fool than 5 right ?
and this extra security was brought in after i was sitting on 1.8 billion isk already, a small amount short of the full total id get my hands on. It would've been easier to walk then than it would now. rather than go through the hassel of the Admin work involved in handing out shares. posting in topics such as these. and still answering any questions i have been asked.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.21 15:11:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Hexxx on 21/09/2007 15:21:46
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Originally by: Kitex
One thing I do know is that I don't want investments in EVE, most of which are generated through this forum, to turn into an exclusive club where those who have not previously run multi-billion isk IPO's need not apply. There are plenty of safe options out there at 5-10%, and I own a few of them. But I'd almost rather take a risk with the new guy who's fresh and eager and has a solid plan, and can offer 15-20%.
All I can do is trust my gut.
I actually fought against this "club" tooth and nail. I think Hexxx originally suggested it almost a year ago or so. I don't want one group of people having the say over whose IPO does and doesn't make it. What evolved from that are the particular questions every holder is expected to answer when they make their business plan. Then this forum picks apart their posts. Some people fold under the pressure and try to delete their posts about the IPO attempting to remove record of them.
I don't feel I'm being overly paranoid. I see patterns in things, when I notice a pattern I pay attention even more so. This is one of those cases. For some reason there have been an unusually large amount of IPOs lately. This could be due to recent attention this forum has received because of the new economist and other blog type things.
If none of these holders turn out to be scammers it makes no difference. What I do fear is people seeing how easy it is to drum up a couple billion through a fake IPO.
All I'm really asking for is a significant time investment in a reputation before asking people to invest. This problem can be laid at the feet of the investors who jumped on these bandwagons.
My personal pet peeve is: "I just recently discovered the market, help me buy a freighter so I can make billions."
To this I say anyone who needs a freighter has the means to buy it. If you don't have those means its likely you don't need a freighter and should be doing something else instead.
Actually, I was advocating a standards body, which you didn't care for but admitedly helped the community come to expect certain minimum standards. But you also didn't like my IPO Template either.
Link: EVE Standards Body
Also, this whole topic of small IPO's I covered not too long ago. I was strongly advocating at the time that MORE small IPO's should be happening.
Link: Advocacy: Small Business
Anyway, I'm not too worried. People seem to be aware of the increased risk and as long as the level of risk is known, I don't see a problem. Investors are responsible for knowing their own risk tolerance and should always be mindful; never invest more than you can afford to lose.
edit: I will kill any man who necro's my threads with a plastic spoon.
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Director for EBANK |
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