Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Stefx
Originally by: CCP Prism X I can't say if it can be deemed as an exploit but I can tell you people who make billions of redundant bookmark copies tick me off like there's no tomorrow. No respect for the DB.
In that case, wouldn't getting rid of the thousands of unused anchored GSCs floating in space in each system be a benefit for the DB?
If a GSC hasn't been opened for a few weeks, it should be deleted, IMO
SIGNED. Nothing I hate more about empire than the fact every single asteroid belt, ice field, and jump gate has 1000 secure containers floating around. It causes lag and it must hurt the games overall performance. People have been complaining about this for years now and it STILL is not fixed.
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread |
JamnOne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Steffie Mc
Originally by: JamnOne
Originally by: Steffie Mc
Originally by: Ozmodan Kind of amusing, a ganker no less complaining about someone actually taking steps to confuse them, how dare they lol.
No, not a ganker, but i a certainly am interested to see just what kind of stuff people are moving through this area in freighters.
It sounds like a scouting party to let the corp mates know if it is worth ganking this system or not.
Curious - what system is it?
I am checking to see if suicide ganking would be a profitable thing to take up, seeing if it is worth the trouble.
Hmm, if your ship is insured you should be ok with the risk/reward. I mean worse case scenario you get a ship with a bunch of BM and trit.
I am curious - knowing that nobody likes suicide ganking - why come here and complain because somebody wanted to have fun with a suicide ganker (freighter loaded with crap to most), claim that the stuff they are hauling is a possible exploit (hauling stuff can't be an exploit as it needs to be done), and admit you want to see if Suicide Ganking is worth it? ________________________
Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
|
Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Princess Jodi I believe he was just taking the advice of those who claim its the Freighter Pilot's fault for getting ganked, and only carrying items in his hold that make him not worth being ganked. That is the advice the gankers give, isn't it?
I'm all for ANY mechanism that makes it harder to gank Freighters in Empire. The advice to not fill the Freighter up to the hilt is anologous to not fitting all your high slots on a PVP ship. That is the Freighters job, after all, and the only advice is to not haul a bunch of stuff. That's a broken game mechanic if I've ever seen one.
CCP Prism: If you object to the database abuse, can you please tell me what items can actually fill up a Freighter without making it worthwhile to gank?
I am curious...you said 1990 Items? I thought you could only put 999 stacks of 999 items?
I like the sraw man you put up as far as advice. One would think that by the time you've got a freighter, and billions worth of loot to put in it, you would have learned how to avoid getting ganked.
Generally it involves effort though. Just like ganking you involves effort. You know. Planning and thinking.
I'd have to agree here. It takes effort and planning to gank, no mechanism should ever be introduced or be continued where no effort is involved avoiding a situation that's unfavorable - *cough*cloaking*cough*
|
Frug
Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:39:00 -
[34]
I'm so very bored. Look at my mighty forum fighting.
Originally by: JamnOne
I am curious - knowing that nobody likes suicide ganking -
What do you mean nobody likes it? I don't even do it and I think it's pretty funny and an important part of eve. If nobody liked it nobody would do it, would they? Pirates spend hours and hours organizing and executing suicide ops because they like it.
Originally by: JamnOne
(hauling stuff can't be an exploit as it needs to be done)
That's like saying PoS bowling isn't an exploit because all ships have to move. Don't be ridiculous.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:40:00 -
[35]
wait, they fixed the shuttle bit?
used to be that the shuttles popped into space assembled and ready to lag
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 17:51:00 -
[36]
With the exception of the loss of one t1 frigate used to pin down the freighter while scanning how does this affect the pirates? Lag while looting would surely effect everyone pretty much equally. Since you have foreknowledge of where the wreck will be you'll remain the first to arrive and extract the soft creamy centre.
That said it remains a blatant abuse of game mechanics.
The ability to create multiple small stacks of items was not intended to create lag for anyone looting the wreck or to slow down scanning.
That said insurance was not intended to allow people to gain profit from pirating in hi-sec with virtually no risk.
Just what exactly defines an exploit in EVE is a complete mystery since any abuse of game mechanics is generally hailed as innovative thinking provided it promotes PvP or a heinous offence worthy of banning if it does not.
I've seen some disgusting abuse of bugs used by certain alliances to take down POS's, capitals, and fleets. This kind of thing continues daily, they continue to be petitioned, no one ever seems to get banned. Indeed at times CCP will claim such things are a "feature" and then remove them as "bugs" when they become common knowledge.
The conclusion of this long-winded waffling?
There are no exploits in EVE.
[Please note this is not a hostile dig at CCP, but for the sake of the game I think it's about time they introduced some clear rules and stuck to them.]
|
Hakuriu
Blue Sun Mining Blue Sun Trust
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 18:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Prism X I should code in some 'attach bookmark' feature into the mailing system and just disallow turning bookmarks into items.
Please do that! :)
|
Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 18:47:00 -
[38]
Excellent, loads of freight containers labeled "DO NOT OPEN" and each of them having 1000s of single Trit piles in them. That should lag any scanning pirate to hell. Love it.
Originally by: CCP Prism X I should code in some 'attach bookmark' feature into the mailing system and just disallow turning bookmarks into items.
Wasn't that available in the beta ? I think we used to be able to mail book marks, but it was disabled, the same as the ATM -- EVE Tools for cell phones and Windows/linux/Mac systems http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
Sgt Job
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 20:00:00 -
[39]
As far as I know copying bookmarks (see Goonswarm) with the intention to create lag is petitionable. After I created these stacks of trit and random safespot bms i shortly after offered to sell them for 100mil in Jita local. The main goal with them was to earn money. And if people want to scan my cargo (and i can't stop them from doing that) and experience lag it's not my problem.
If CCP think my cargo is unfit for hauling they should buy it from me as I will always have it with me in case i come across a buyer.
|
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 20:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sgt Job As far as I know copying bookmarks (see Goonswarm) with the intention to create lag is petitionable. After I created these stacks of trit and random safespot bms i shortly after offered to sell them for 100mil in Jita local. The main goal with them was to earn money. And if people want to scan my cargo (and i can't stop them from doing that) and experience lag it's not my problem.
If CCP think my cargo is unfit for hauling they should buy it from me as I will always have it with me in case i come across a buyer.
Wow... just wow.
"WTS 900 stacks of 1 trit, will stay on-line overnight while stacks are transferred via trade, free gift: 99 random safespot bookmarks. All this can be yours for a mere 100mill"
I'm sure many lulz were had when you made that offer in Jita.
I'm actually on the side of those willing to use a non-punishable exploit to combat another non-punishable exploit, but really this is... well, words fail me.
|
|
Sundownr
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:05:00 -
[41]
Good on him! The cries of 'just adapt' we hear from the hi-sec gankbears has been answered by deed!
Look at them point and drool, slavering all over the 'broken game mechanics' of his adaptation to their craptastic style of gameplay. Watch them duck the fact of their actually being rewarded by Concord with insurance payments for their ships when they've performed their suicidaly enhanced criminal act of hi-sec piracy, as they point at Sgt. there and cry 'Foul!'.
Eve is a sandbox they say. Well, Sarge there just moved his li'l pile of sand around in a way to tick off the gankbears and I for one wish to present him with the Golden Pail and Shovel award.
<Salute>
:: -------------------------------------------------
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. -Aristotle |
Sgt Job
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Sgt Job on 21/09/2007 21:10:09
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: Sgt Job As far as I know copying bookmarks (see Goonswarm) with the intention to create lag is petitionable. After I created these stacks of trit and random safespot bms i shortly after offered to sell them for 100mil in Jita local. The main goal with them was to earn money. And if people want to scan my cargo (and i can't stop them from doing that) and experience lag it's not my problem.
If CCP think my cargo is unfit for hauling they should buy it from me as I will always have it with me in case i come across a buyer.
Wow... just wow.
"WTS 900 stacks of 1 trit, will stay on-line overnight while stacks are transferred via trade, free gift: 99 random safespot bookmarks. All this can be yours for a mere 100mill"
I'm sure many lulz were had when you made that offer in Jita.
I'm actually on the side of those willing to use a non-punishable exploit to combat another non-punishable exploit, but really this is... well, words fail me.
And because you think it's funny it should be considered an exploit?
I got my ass covered since i've offered to sell theese stacks. Thus I can rightfully claim that i made them with the intention to earn money, and not cause lag for gank-scanners.... which i was unaware of.
|
Saibotek
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sundownr Good on him! The cries of 'just adapt' we hear from the hi-sec gankbears has been answered by deed!
Look at them point and drool, slavering all over the 'broken game mechanics' of his adaptation to their craptastic style of gameplay. Watch them duck the fact of their actually being rewarded by Concord with insurance payments for their ships when they've performed their suicidaly enhanced criminal act of hi-sec piracy, as they point at Sgt. there and cry 'Foul!'.
Eve is a sandbox they say. Well, Sarge there just moved his li'l pile of sand around in a way to tick off the gankbears and I for one wish to present him with the Golden Pail and Shovel award.
<Salute>
::
/signed
|
|
CCP Prism X
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sgt Job And because you think it's funny it should be considered an exploit?
I got my ass covered since i've offered to sell theese stacks. Thus I can rightfully claim that i made them with the intention to earn money, and not cause lag for gank-scanners.... which i was unaware of.
Since everybody here is playing the devils advocate I'll do the same. By your logic I should be able to sell one trit unit for 3k billion ISK and then claim I was merely trying a new profit margin when our GMs reverse your obvious ISK buying transaction.
Adapt or die. It's the same for you and me. We do something you don't like, you adapt. You do something we don't like, we adapt. Currently there's no need to remove the nifty feature of sharing bookmarks but if everyone and their grandmother decides to use this method to attempt to avoid high-sec ganking rather than being intelligent about it things might change. Not because it ticks me off but because it reduces the quality of service for other customers.
~ Prism X EvE Lead Database Developer, Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006. |
|
Price Watcher
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:36:00 -
[45]
Congratulations to SGT Job!
Tough luck, gankbears!
POST WITH YOUR ALT!
The Shame o' The Galaxy |
Sgt Job
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:56:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Sgt Job And because you think it's funny it should be considered an exploit?
I got my ass covered since i've offered to sell theese stacks. Thus I can rightfully claim that i made them with the intention to earn money, and not cause lag for gank-scanners.... which i was unaware of.
Since everybody here is playing the devils advocate I'll do the same. By your logic I should be able to sell one trit unit for 3k billion ISK and then claim I was merely trying a new profit margin when our GMs reverse your obvious ISK buying transaction.
Yes, I do expect CCP not to remove my isk if i sell someting overpriced on the market. You have failed to confirm how much you can overprice an item and how the players are to discover isk-sellers. The two criterias you based decisions to ban isk-buyers on, right?
Quote: Adapt or die. It's the same for you and me. We do something you don't like, you adapt. You do something we don't like, we adapt.
Well, if my bookmarks and tritstacks cause lag for high-sec gankers then wouldn't you say that I have adapted to the problem? Does my actions state that I am unable to adapt, please explain.¦
I would also like you, Prism X, to list VIABLE tactics for High-sec haulers and big traders to avoid freightergankings. And no splitting a 20 mil profit that took 1-2 hours haling between 5-6 people is NOT viable.
Quote: Currently there's no need to remove the nifty feature of sharing bookmarks but if everyone and their grandmother decides to use this method to attempt to avoid high-sec ganking rather than being intelligent about it things might change.
I will continue to have bookmarks and stacks of trit in my freighter untill it becomes a banable offense or viable methods to avoid high-sec ganking gets introduced to the game. Hell, I might even make some more. If you have a problem with that then talk to your superiors or whoever got the last word on this matter.
|
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 21:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Sgt Job And because you think it's funny it should be considered an exploit?
I got my ass covered since i've offered to sell theese stacks. Thus I can rightfully claim that i made them with the intention to earn money, and not cause lag for gank-scanners.... which i was unaware of.
Since everybody here is playing the devils advocate I'll do the same. By your logic I should be able to sell one trit unit for 3k billion ISK and then claim I was merely trying a new profit margin when our GMs reverse your obvious ISK buying transaction.
Adapt or die. It's the same for you and me. We do something you don't like, you adapt. You do something we don't like, we adapt. Currently there's no need to remove the nifty feature of sharing bookmarks but if everyone and their grandmother decides to use this method to attempt to avoid high-sec ganking rather than being intelligent about it things might change. Not because it ticks me off but because it reduces the quality of service for other customers.
Wouldn't it be better if you could start considering what CCP's definition of an exploit and/or detrimental gameplay feature is so that these things can be dealt with swiftly and avoid much forum whining, screaming of "OMG HAX", and people becoming used to such "features" before they are fixed?
I don't mean this sarcastically, I believe EVE is great for offering a lot of tactical leeway and room for inventive thinking but somewhere there is a line and neither we the players nor you the developers seem to know where this line is.
And Sgt Job, bravo on an excellent, well thought out defense, when having the fact that the issue is not punishable presented to you, you've really managed to cover that ass. Plausible deniability ftw. But remember this, this is CCP's game, you don't own your ISK, you don't own your stuff, and you don't own your character. You have no rights, you can't "rightfully claim" anything, and CCP can do whatever they please, not based on any legal system, but based on what they believe is right.
|
Kaishain
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 22:07:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Kaishain on 21/09/2007 22:07:53
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf But remember this, this is CCP's game, you don't own your ISK, you don't own your stuff, and you don't own your character. You have no rights, you can't "rightfully claim" anything, and CCP can do whatever they please, not based on any legal system, but based on what they believe is right.
Yeah, i know. But I think that there should be a clear set of rules to follow to minimize the risk of getting banned/get isk removed ect.
edit: Job's alt btw
|
J Ripper
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 22:21:00 -
[49]
Auto-stacking 4TW
my sig: --- Jon Johansen --- |
Naema Silverheart
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 22:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Naema Silverheart on 21/09/2007 22:26:09 Well with a game of this complexity you can't really have an all encompassing set of rules, but guidelines should be set-up so that issues can be dealt with on a case by case basis as they arise.
I'm all in favor of anything that helps make freighter hauling profitable again. I stated my case on such here. Although freighter ganking has been found not to be an offense it remains a terrible breach of the "risk vs reward" nature of EVE. Even were insurance revoked for suicide gankers it would still be imho poorly balanced since ganksquads would simply wait (in complete safety) for targets that would cover the cost of their uninsured ships.
The trader already faces risk even with a cleanly delivered cargo due to the "pvp" nature of the market. The ganker risks nothing. But like I said, it's CCP's game. This is the way things are so I simply won't fly a freighter. However if a solution is found to again make it profitable, database be damned, people will jump on it unless it is solved or listed as an exploit.
Also WTB list of in game offenses. I know listing them means certain people will be endowed with the knowledge to use them, however these are people who have always just been waiting for their inevitable opportunity to "cheat the system". Those of us who have no intent of abusing the game mechanics are then safe to innovate as we see fit safe in the knowledge that if we're doing anything wrong it'll hit the list before we get hit with the ban-hammer.
The game could be better "policed" and players would know, really know, in a short span of time if a tactic is considered an exploit or not.
[EDIT: Dammit default alt selection FTL. This is Daelin.]
|
|
Karlemgne
The Malevolent The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 22:37:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Princess Jodi LOL ... Did it work? Did it prevent you from getting a scan result before he warped off? Did it stop you from Ganking him?
And NO! its not an exploit to have unstacked cargo. But it should be an exploit to scan and gank freighters in Hi-Sec space, in my opinion.
It should be an exploit scan and gank Freighters in hi-sec? Number one, the definition of an exploit is something that is possible through game mechanics that was unintended. This (scanning cargo and engaging ships) certainly is intended.
I am not even sure how, tbh, you could even justify a rule change, which is really what you are asking for.
Me thinks you just lost a Freighter and are sore about it.
-Karl
|
dhav kincaide
Caldari Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 23:30:00 -
[52]
Hey Prism, since you're here, how about... -> Logging the copying and splitting of bookmarks, trit, holoreels, et-al... to get a feel for how rampant it is or isn't. (doubt it's just freighters in Empire, if it happens.) -> Consider restricting the stacking and split-stacking capabilities to a low value, or restrict the vast majority of those types of transactions to stations. (providing that the station is on a different process or thread from the systems outside, therefore negating the ability to lag out an encounter, and restricting the lag to the station process/thread/'zone'.)
-dhav kincaide QI nooblet |
Mashie Saldana
Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 23:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme wait, they fixed the shuttle bit?
used to be that the shuttles popped into space assembled and ready to lag
Yes that was the reason it took ages before freighters started to drop loot as that had to be fixed first.
Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas |
Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
|
Posted - 2007.09.21 23:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: dhav kincaide Hey Prism, since you're here, how about... -> Logging the copying and splitting of bookmarks, trit, holoreels, et-al... to get a feel for how rampant it is or isn't. (doubt it's just freighters in Empire, if it happens.) -> Consider restricting the stacking and split-stacking capabilities to a low value, or restrict the vast majority of those types of transactions to stations. (providing that the station is on a different process or thread from the systems outside, therefore negating the ability to lag out an encounter, and restricting the lag to the station process/thread/'zone'.)
I am sure these are both very time/server intensive tasks. The former will mean extra reports to be run, the latter will mean conducting studies to determine impact.
The way PrismX put it is no doubt the way it works. CCP don't give a **** about the mechanics as long as issues can be swept under the rug. It is a bit sad that there are so many threads about high sec ganking, but its a thread about getting around the gankers which brings out his presence.
I applaud the Sgt for being adaptive. I hope that other freighters will push back (Im not a freighter pilot) and force CCP's hand. It means there'll be some unfortunate bans/nerfs, but it'll at least get the issue addressed.
A freighter cannot fit stabs, cannot do a good logoffski (especially not if you use a suicide ibis to aggression flag him), and has predictable armor/shield data. Let pilots fit them. Give them a choice between tanking and freighting. Hell, release a jump drive module that massive reduces cargo an you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Really its the only thing you can change (that I can think up in 30 seconds). Aside from making scanning another player an illegal offence in concord's eyes. Anything else will nerf other parts of the game.
|
Ravenal
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Princess Jodi ... But it should be an exploit to scan and gank freighters in Hi-Sec space, in my opinion.
Because obviously, carebears need ways to haul stuff with no risk rather than the pathetically small risk they take currently.
something went terribly wrong you ed too much . |
Kirov VIII
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:33:00 -
[56]
Yes, CCP need to rewrite the part of game mechanical / exploit ! Too many time, it's arranged for a game mechanical.
Example : Shooting inside POS forcefield. CCP have promised an official response but we always wait for this official response.(Nothing on patch note for that) It's a game mechanical to shoot inside a forcefield ? :P
For me, destroy a freighter in high secure it's an exploit. (It's not high secure for nothing no ?) But, put bookmark or another item not repackage in the cargohold of freighter for increase your luck to passthrough suicide gank, it's a game mechanical. (It's allowed to put item not repackage in your can/hangar why not in the cargohold ?)
|
Mari Onette
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Since everybody here is playing the devils advocate I'll do the same. By your logic I should be able to sell one trit unit for 3k billion ISK and then claim I was merely trying a new profit margin when our GMs reverse your obvious ISK buying transaction.
So scamming people with outrageously priced items in the hope they won't notice, is buying isk now?
You are walking a very fine line there. Is scamming people legal or a violation of the EULA? - I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth - At 20 dollars a month, Eve costs 2 cents an hour to play. Downtime is cheap. |
I SoStoned
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Steffie Mc Scanned some freighter cargo going through empire, the pilots name was SGT Job, he has 1990 items in his cargo, 99% being bookmarks and pieces of 1 trit over and over. The other 1% is junk.
It's not against the rules... any more than suicide ganking w/ a fleet of BS. Having a couple thousand BMs or individual units of trit means that he's 3 systems away by the time you've gotten out of the lag spike caused by scanning.
The downside is that every time the freighter jumps into a system the whole node lags trying to parse those 2000 bookmarks (that's how BoB used lag bombs to win countless fleet battles).
|
Wylker
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:50:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Prism X I can't say if it can be deemed as an exploit but I can tell you people who make billions of redundant bookmark copies tick me off like there's no tomorrow. No respect for the DB. I should code in some 'attach bookmark' feature into the mailing system and just disallow turning bookmarks into items. Rabble, rabble! RABBLE, RABBLE!!1one
Holy crap. Adding "attach bookmark" to eve-mail would be one of the best things you could do. It was probably the most intelligent feature they had in SWG and everyone used it constantly to make life easier. It would have some amazing ramifications for PvP. Please do this.
Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
|
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
|
Posted - 2007.09.22 00:52:00 -
[60]
does the server parse the whole load every jump or just when its opened?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |