Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Irma Bondis
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 08:11:00 -
[31]
Caldari sucks give us a "I WIN BUTTON !!"
Ok, now for the more serious part of the post. HAM's are pretty decent missiles they are as stated before a bit havy on the fitting requirements but other then that they are very useful. The fact that you do not like this one weapon system does not mean that they are bad it just means that you personaly have not found a good use for it. Judging by the reactions so far no one else seems to have the same problems with this weapon system. That in it self would make me wonder... am I that good or are all others that bad?
Anyway, I guess the message is clear, you don't like HAM's and the rest of the people that bother replying do. So get over it and just some other weapon platform please.
|
Jexxa
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 11:22:00 -
[32]
For those people who are whinging about HAM's and the lack of Caldari cap (with MWD) - DONT USE 'EM. I do not use HAM's on Caldari ships - the Caracal, Drake or even Cerb sucks when using them. Stick with normal heavies.
I DO, however, use them to fill missile slots on all my other close-range ships; the dps difference is noticable. And as for the Khanid ships since the patch......have you ever been at the wrong end of a HAM spewing Sacrilage? Not nice
So, if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em. End.
|
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 11:31:00 -
[33]
Quote: The main problem I see for HAMs: they need more PG and you need a MWD to get into range. PG that most Caldari ships don't have without removing every kind of tank (and even then, some need fitting mods).
The PG requirements are tough, but a RCU I/II makes life easier. But if you're in a HAM Drake in gang, then you'll have your low slots filled with BCS, DC and a PDS/RCU, and then you won't really have the PG or lowslots to fit the passive tank that is apparently compulsory on Drakes... ...so people prefer HMs.
The range of HAMs really isn't a problem. MWD is extremely useful but not absolutely essential, bubblecamps etc aside. The range on Jav HAMs is great, and if you're in gang then you should have a warp-in target on to your tackler anyway.
|
Cpt Cosmic
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 11:34:00 -
[34]
its easy for what HAMs are... ...for the Sacrlige |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2007.09.24 21:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Stilgard because missiles are more used for PVE and not PVP.
Secondly, fit a MWD and you ll not be able to shield tank.
Close range is more for Armor tankers not for shield tankers
Ever looked at a PVP fitted AC Sleipnir, a shield tanking ship with only 5 mids?
Works just fine with MWD, cap booster, scram, shield booster and invulnerability field.
Stop whining already, we need T2 ammo to even get close to the range you get with T1 HAMs.
Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas |
Lestat deLincourd
Caldari Jion Keanturi TALIONIS ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 12:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Stilgard I mean capacitor for shield tanking.
If you want to use them correctly, you have to use a MWD and you ll jeopardize your shield tanking
Caracal navy or cerberus for example you can even speed tank em. |
Artanixir
NYIT Gangstaz SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 12:43:00 -
[37]
most of the points that i'd say are added here,
but i think stilgard was missing one biggg point, Missiles are not exclusively for the use of caldari, or on caldari ships. other ships DO use missiles, and will have the power grid to support them, and yeah there are some short range ships (NOT just caldari) that make great use of the HAMS
and i read a thread a few days ago with a drake loaded up on HAMS, and yes, it had less tank than a golf cart, but it was spewing somewhere in the range of 700dps. yummy.
|
Scorpyn
Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 15:15:00 -
[38]
They are not useless, but they tend to not be the optimal choice on caldari ships. The reason for this is that a close range ship needs to be reasonably fast, agile and lightweight - which is something that caldari ships are not very famous for.
2007-07-19 20:26
|
Dretzle Omega
Caldari Gear Ratio
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 15:22:00 -
[39]
The short of it is: The fit a certain role. If they don't have the range you want, don't use it. You can sacrifice the damage given for some extra range. ------------------- 4 8 15 16 23 42 108 |
Lawk
Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.09.25 16:59:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Lawk on 25/09/2007 17:01:14 My HAM cerb hasnt seen much action yet but with my skills and a modest fitting(only 2 x BCU) I get 2.91 ROF and 30km range. Its about 450 DPS with faction ammo. Loaded with javelins, my DPS drops a little but i can reach out to 124km. HAMs suck? Edit: my range is a bit better than 30km, but cant remember atm. Also, my missile support skills are lvl5.
|
|
Koabi
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 15:42:00 -
[41]
If HAM's had the range between heavy's and cruise missiles, then what would be the point of training to HM's? OP is missing the point of what these missiles are for. They arent used for fleet ops, but would you fit an AC/blaster boat for a fleet op? No, because you will most likely want to be able to hit at range.
Don't use HAMs for missions mate, no mission runner at his right mind would fit blasters/AC's.
If you go in a small roaming gang, try this in a drake fe.:
7x HAM MWD, cap booster, web, 3x damps damage mod/bcu or whatever you feel like. Its nice if you dont get called primay ^_^
|
Bellac
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 18:36:00 -
[42]
well they are far from useless - just different.
In every weapon class there is 2 options at each size - pulse / beams for example.
With missiles its just a bit different as it didnt start off like this but developed into it. Anyhoo we basically end up with rockets and standard missiles for frigates, heavy missiles and heavy asault for cruisers and cruise and torps for BS.
In general one has long range and big damage but slow fire rate and higher fittings. The other has lower fitting faster fire rate with lower damage and shorter range. Heavy missiles and heavy assault fit into this neche really well. If you dont like them simply do not use them.
|
Dubious Drewski
|
Posted - 2007.09.26 20:56:00 -
[43]
Hams in comparison to heavies: +25% dps -76% range +67% cost per second -10% cpu +20% grid
Is it worth it? I personally don't think so.
|
Ashen Wraith
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 08:19:00 -
[44]
khanid players are diggin the hams... just to let ya know
|
Caldorous
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 10:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Koabi Don't use HAMs for missions mate, no mission runner at his right mind would fit blasters/AC's.
I'm afraid i have to say that in the last 2 years i've done most of my missions in a blaster boat, which i find more fun and i'd like to use more if the serpentis ships started to fly like gallentes and stop using rails. (Gallente npc ships shouldnt shoot from more than 10km away) -----------------------------
|
Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 15:32:00 -
[46]
Nope they're not useless.
Move along!
*snip* Do not use your signature to troll or insult other EVE players even if the little dweebs deserve it! -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected]) |
Mudkest
MetaForge Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 19:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Stilgard Yeah but these missiles are totally useless
Have ever seen fleet battles using these kind of missiles ?
have you ever seen any missile used in fleet battle? O.O
----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs!
I want my hello-kitty-kessie! |
ArrogantGod
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 20:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 25/09/2007 05:42:15 its easy for what HAMs are... ...for the Sacrilege
First thing I thought of when HAMs were added was "AC Rupture"
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.27 20:23:00 -
[49]
People underestimate just how terrible HAM range is by far: "Hey, 21km is enough for anyone." - "Yeah, anyone not moving and tackled by you." "But Poly-Sac moves fast rite?" - "Sure does, have fun training both range skills to V so your Poly-Sac actually hits more than 50% of the time while simply orbitting." "They do more DPS!" - "On a standing target of cruiser or larger size within 21km with max skills they do. On any target within a Sacs lockrange, with the added bonus of explosion radius skills and boosters and with casual level 3 or 4 missile skills, HMs do more." "They still do more DPS." - "And less volley damage, yet another missile strength besides range and explosion radius skills that HAMs lose." "What about Javelins?" - "On a polysac? Good thinking." "You can stick them on a Cerberus or a tanked Sac." - "A Cerberus within 30km of anything is a terrible idea, and tanked Sacs are cute but not an overly useful ship - being the prime choice by exclusion of all others on one ship that in itself isn't useful doesn't make the missile type any good."
I'm not sure why I wrote that as dialog. It's not even good, or natural or ******* funny at all. Whatever, there you go - HAMs combine the disadvantages of missiles and blasters in one package of suck, and the hypothetical payoff isn't there because the range is still too short even with a implants and max skills. If they just had a base range of 10 or 11 km, they'd be good enough to have that one payoff for all the drawbacks - as it is, they don't.
|
Subruz
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 00:15:00 -
[50]
I don't see the problem with the range? Reloading takes 10 seconds and usually you're able to figure out what range you'll be fighting at somewhat quickly.
- However like people here are saying the grid need is rather heavy and grid is something at least not my drake can afford to spare, shield extenders are quite powerhungry too. Whoever suggested using RCU's should know that they're not an option for a passive tanker, thoose lowslots are damn precious.
|
|
Slayton Ford
Uninvited Guests
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 01:12:00 -
[51]
Drake does not suck while using them. In a gang situation, a Drake is normally primaried last because most FCs will see a ship with all tank and no gank. But 7x HAML II w/ 3BCUs can put out 550+ DPS. Add in a MWD, and tackle and you have a underestimated ship. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 10:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Subruz Edited by: Subruz on 28/09/2007 02:01:55 Like people here are saying the grid need is rather heavy and grid is something at least not my drake can afford to spare, shield extenders are quite powerhungry too. Whoever suggested using RCU's should know that they're not an option for a passive tanker, thoose lowslots are damn precious.
IMO, those lowslots are also too valuable to be wasted on your tank. Go active on the Drake and fit BCS.
|
Allestin Villimar
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 13:25:00 -
[53]
You can fit two BCUs on a drake and still get a far better passive regen than any non XL-booster will give you.
|
Subruz
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 15:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar You can fit two BCUs on a drake and still get a far better passive regen than any non XL-booster will give you.
I agree that BCU's are useful and I think it comes down to the situation and playstyle alot. However using 2 BCU's instead of 2 relays will get you killed often, especially if caught solo (should be avoided anyway though, as it can at best end in a draw).
Using HAM's and together with a tackler the exta DPS is noticable but you're still pushing out sub-par DPS.
|
Allestin Villimar
|
Posted - 2007.09.28 22:13:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 28/09/2007 22:13:15 I'm not saying I'd fit them, just pointing it out. I only use 1 if I use any, I often can't due to CPU restraints. In which case I use a SPR.
|
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.09.29 11:51:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Allestin Villimar You can fit two BCUs on a drake and still get a far better passive regen than any non XL-booster will give you.
Please post your fit. I think you're wrong, but it has been a while since I fitted a passive Drake. Please state your assumptions (e.g., max skills?) and requirements (e.g., is MWD or scram necessary?). Also HM and HAM fits would be nice.
|
Adeleine
|
Posted - 2007.09.30 13:01:00 -
[57]
I see it differently:
Long range ship uses long range missiles. Long range ships: Kestler, Caracal, Drake, Raven Long range missiles: Light, Heavy and Cruise Missiles.
Short range ship uses short range missiles. Short range ships: Merlin, Moa, Thorax. Short range khanid ships: Vengeance, Sacrilege and Damnation. Short range missiles: Rockets and Heavy Assault Missiles.
Theres another way of caldari fighting where you actually go close to enemy and possibly use electronic warfare that has short range.
I dont know much about amarr but i do know that they use lasers that have short range and use a lot of capasitor. As I understand their ships have bigger energy grid too. So the heavy assault missiles with short range and no capasitor use are prolly not that bad choise for them since they are going to close range anyways.
I dont know how the damage of heavy assault missiles compare to damage of lasers and blasters but if it is lower they need to fix the damage, not the range.
|
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.09.30 15:11:00 -
[58]
Base HAM damage is 1.25 that of HM.
|
Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.30 18:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Stilgard because missiles are more used for PVE and not PVP.
Secondly, fit a MWD and you ll not be able to shield tank.
Close range is more for Armor tankers not for shield tankers
Ever looked at a PVP fitted AC Sleipnir, a shield tanking ship with only 5 mids?
Works just fine with MWD, cap booster, scram, shield booster and invulnerability field.
Stop whining already, we need T2 ammo to even get close to the range you get with T1 HAMs.
How does the AC-fitted Sleipnir's DPS compare with eg: a HAM-fitted Nighthawk?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.09.30 23:05:00 -
[60]
Two major purposes I see for HAMs Javelins to take HAM-like damage out to up to 124km on Caracals/Cerbs (or any ship with a +10%/level missile range bonus) Cruiser-sized nano ships can use them as heavy DPS when their guns can't track. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |