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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
gfldex
280
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Posted - 2012.01.22 20:43:00 -
[271] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:It also touches onto one of the few hot button issues in high sec, if griefers can routinely disrupt PvE people are going to flat out cancel their accounts.
What makes you wonder what those players did before we got Incursions about a year ago.
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 20:51:00 -
[272] - Quote
Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
Also, what's wrong with killing the mom when its there? IMO, CCP should make the incursions harder the longer the mom is spawned and just left there, with no increase in rewards. Seriously, incursions are supposed to be Sansha offensives. Why do they just sit around idling while their **** gets blowed up? |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2012.01.22 20:56:00 -
[273] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Not sure what this has to do with anything. In essence: GǣWaah, another player playing the game legitimately is keeping me from exploiting weaknesses in the rule set to milk every last ISK-cent from this feature. Allowing him to do so will make us leave, and you will suffer!!Gǥ GǪmuch like how various botting proponents have defended the use of bots and decried any methods to halt their botting.
There are two flaws in the incursions feature. The first is a game design flaw. The isk distribution on the current sites are not balanced such as to encourage people to run the harder sites. Keep in mind that any content balanced to be run by groups of players is going to produce some descent isk. This is because humans>NPCs. Yes Vangaurds need their isk output dropped a bit, but probably not as much as you would think.
The second flaw is that the mobility feature. Incursions are designed to move so that no group can assert ownership over the content (unlike the old static plexes). Desire to participate in this feature is large enough that the movement feature became a limiting feature. The work around for this flaw was simply an agreement amongst all concerned not to immediately ended the incursion. This work around is proving unworkable.
Unless you can show that ending an Incursion was met as a limiting feature and not a feature to prevent static ownership it is you who are exploiting a weakness in the ruleset to exploit a loophole.
I suspect a good bit of what is going on here is that inflation + faction fits are eating in Nulls moon goo income. (CCP Nerf goo, buff anoms please). |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 20:58:00 -
[274] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Jas Dor wrote:It also touches onto one of the few hot button issues in high sec, if griefers can routinely disrupt PvE people are going to flat out cancel their accounts. What makes you wonder what those players did before we got Incursions about a year ago.
Probably played a different game. High Sec isn't exactly the home of the majority of bittervets. |
gfldex
280
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:04:00 -
[275] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:High Sec isn't exactly the home of the majority of bittervets.
And there you are wrong. Ship spinning is best done in highsec. The whole point of being a bittervet it to not play the game while being bitter.
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
529
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:05:00 -
[276] - Quote
Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
i fully agree with you. Question is: should eve have this kind of pve mechanics which *encourage* this kind of gameplay you described? At the end of the day... its not the players fault a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:13:00 -
[277] - Quote
Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
Also, what's wrong with killing the mom when its there? IMO, CCP should make the incursions harder the longer the mom is spawned and just left there, with no increase in rewards. Seriously, incursions are supposed to be Sansha offensives. Why do they just sit around idling while their **** gets blowed up?
Raider types can and do handle it.
Point of Reference the Massive Massive Ban List that BTL has. High Sector Incursions have never been safe.
http://www.g4mer.net/blist/index.php
There has been Griefing since day one. But there is a huge difference between dying while participating in an Incursion VS being denied the Incursion environment altogether.
But ruining the weekend play to thousands fo High sector players because a selected few feel that all players should play in the bitter world they live in that is an Incursionless world is not the right approach. I hope CCP give perma bands as they are costing real memberships from the game.
Whenever a high sector player decides he wants his ship to be blown up all he as to do is set auto pilot to the nearest 0.0 gate. |
Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:14:00 -
[278] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
i fully agree with you. Question is: should eve have this kind of pve mechanics which *encourage* this kind of gameplay you described? At the end of the day... its not the players fault
I agree. CCP likely didn't realize that people would be farming these things and have the mom spawned in just hours. They probably expected them to last 2-3 days and people would just kill the mom. I guess that's what 18 months of a lack of focus on FiS will do.
I'm not saying incursions suck, I'm just saying that their implementation doesn't appear to be fully thought through. |
Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:18:00 -
[279] - Quote
Brumi Viri wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
Also, what's wrong with killing the mom when its there? IMO, CCP should make the incursions harder the longer the mom is spawned and just left there, with no increase in rewards. Seriously, incursions are supposed to be Sansha offensives. Why do they just sit around idling while their **** gets blowed up? Raider types can and do handle it. Point of Reference the Massive Massive Ban List that BTL has. High Sector Incursions have never been safe. http://www.g4mer.net/blist/index.phpThere has been Griefing since day one. But there is a huge difference between dying while participating in an Incursion VS being denied the Incursion environment altogether.But ruining the weekend play to thousands fo High sector players because a selected few feel that all players should play in the bitter world they live in that is an Incursionless world is not the right approach. I hope CCP give perma bands as they are costing real memberships from the game. Whenever a high sector player decides he wants his ship to be blown up all he as to do is set auto pilot to the nearest 0.0 gate.
Obviously they can't. Look at the tears. Also, there's so much to do in this game. if you play this game just for incursions, you're playing the wrong game. There are so many games out there that provide such content better, and mostly grief free. If having someone interfere with your activities is a problem for you, go play something that doesn't allow such things. |
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:21:00 -
[280] - Quote
Tak McMonagle wrote:Brumi Viri wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
Also, what's wrong with killing the mom when its there? IMO, CCP should make the incursions harder the longer the mom is spawned and just left there, with no increase in rewards. Seriously, incursions are supposed to be Sansha offensives. Why do they just sit around idling while their **** gets blowed up? Raider types can and do handle it. Point of Reference the Massive Massive Ban List that BTL has. High Sector Incursions have never been safe. http://www.g4mer.net/blist/index.phpThere has been Griefing since day one. But there is a huge difference between dying while participating in an Incursion VS being denied the Incursion environment altogether.But ruining the weekend play to thousands fo High sector players because a selected few feel that all players should play in the bitter world they live in that is an Incursionless world is not the right approach. I hope CCP give perma bands as they are costing real memberships from the game. Whenever a high sector player decides he wants his ship to be blown up all he as to do is set auto pilot to the nearest 0.0 gate. Obviously they can't. Look at the tears. Also, there's so much to do in this game. if you play this game just for incursions, you're playing the wrong game. There are so many games out there that provide such content better, and mostly grief free. If having someone interfere with your activities is a problem for you, go play something that doesn't allow such things.
The same can be said for a a griefer only game.
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Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
16
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:23:00 -
[281] - Quote
Brumi Viri wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Brumi Viri wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Incursions are funny. A lot of the people that run them are the same types that are hardcore raiders in other games. They raid to get gear to raid to get gear to.....you get the idea. Incursions are no different, except it's isk for mods/ships for isk for mods/ships. Honestly, Eve isn't a very good place with that sort of player. Most of us that play Eve play it for the ability to do whatever they want. Consequences or no. The raider types can't handle it when someone's fun gets in their way, directly or indirectly.
Also, what's wrong with killing the mom when its there? IMO, CCP should make the incursions harder the longer the mom is spawned and just left there, with no increase in rewards. Seriously, incursions are supposed to be Sansha offensives. Why do they just sit around idling while their **** gets blowed up? Raider types can and do handle it. Point of Reference the Massive Massive Ban List that BTL has. High Sector Incursions have never been safe. http://www.g4mer.net/blist/index.phpThere has been Griefing since day one. But there is a huge difference between dying while participating in an Incursion VS being denied the Incursion environment altogether.But ruining the weekend play to thousands fo High sector players because a selected few feel that all players should play in the bitter world they live in that is an Incursionless world is not the right approach. I hope CCP give perma bands as they are costing real memberships from the game. Whenever a high sector player decides he wants his ship to be blown up all he as to do is set auto pilot to the nearest 0.0 gate. Obviously they can't. Look at the tears. Also, there's so much to do in this game. if you play this game just for incursions, you're playing the wrong game. There are so many games out there that provide such content better, and mostly grief free. If having someone interfere with your activities is a problem for you, go play something that doesn't allow such things. The same can be said for a a griefer only game.
But the griefers aren't complaining that they can't grief. |
Ai Shun
152
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:35:00 -
[282] - Quote
Tak McMonagle wrote:Obviously they can't. Look at the tears. Also, there's so much to do in this game. if you play this game just for incursions, you're playing the wrong game. There are so many games out there that provide such content better, and mostly grief free. If having someone interfere with your activities is a problem for you, go play something that doesn't allow such things.
+1
I don't understand why people take a risk based, multi-player game and try to create a risk free grind for themselves out of it. But you encounter the mindset in just about any MMO. People come to a conceptual game, then try to recreate the gameplay they had in their previous MMO after having left it.
Instead of, you know, just playing the damn game as it is designed.
And, like it or not EVE is a game of PvP and risk. No matter WHAT you do, once you undock you are implicitly accepting the risk. CCP has advertised it thusly from the very start, the game's advertising is based around it.
And yet, we have Incursion runners that want complete safety and to be left alone.
Why?
Why should somebody be banned for playing the damn game? |
Zubrette
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
1
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:37:00 -
[283] - Quote
I am enjoying these tears. So many, so delicious. |
Londor Rogers
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.01.22 21:42:00 -
[284] - Quote
Ok let me get this straight the pvpers are pveing to stop the pvers from pveing but the pvers are trying to pvpthe pvpers to stop them from pveing ?
If only I could go into highsec and help |
Elysia Fotini
Sweatpants Boner Petition Blizzard
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 21:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
tears, tears, tears....... |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
62
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:07:00 -
[286] - Quote
It's quite hilarious that the incursion farmers are so upset for the people actually finishing the incursions like they're supposed to be. I will sit back and laugh at them while I do level 4 missions in my faction fitted Golem, and my alts mine ice as I do the missions... oh... wait... nevermind. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
gfldex
280
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 22:27:00 -
[287] - Quote
Londor Rogers wrote:Ok let me get this straight the pvpers are pveing to stop the pvers from pveing but the pvers are trying to pvpthe pvpers to stop them from pveing ?
No, no, no, you got that wrong. The PvPer are _PvEing_ to hurt the PvEers. That's what making this whole drama so ingenious!
Both TDF and BTL have the ISK and the numbers to deal with the problem. Yet, all we see is whining and whinging. They can't fight for their ISK and so they don't deserve it. More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
255
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:30:00 -
[288] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Both TDF and BTL have the ISK and the numbers to deal with the problem. QFT
If they were actually a "community" the entire interdiction would be a non-issue. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 22:37:00 -
[289] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:
+1
I don't understand why people take a risk based, multi-player game and try to create a risk free grind for themselves out of it. But you encounter the mindset in just about any MMO. People come to a conceptual game, then try to recreate the gameplay they had in their previous MMO after having left it.
Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO).
|
Chevy Hakoke
Shockwave Innovations Stellar Economy Experts
16
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:39:00 -
[290] - Quote
Londor Rogers wrote:Ok let me get this straight the pvpers are pveing to stop the pvers from pveing but the pvers are trying to pvpthe pvpers to stop them from pveing ?
If only I could go into highsec and help
Yes thats about right |
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
686
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:42:00 -
[291] - Quote
gfldex wrote:[quote=Londor Rogers]Both TDF and BTL have the ISK and the numbers to deal with the problem. Yet, all we see is whining and whinging. They can't fight for their ISK and so they don't deserve it. This. +10.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Ai Shun
153
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:43:00 -
[292] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO).
My first set was with the blue dice, where you had to white crayon the lettering and I've covered a multitude of pen and paper based games and have been an active GM across (preferrentially) White Wolf's D10 system and occasionally DnD. So yes, I believe I understand why people get together and play a pen and paper game.
But, last time I checked, players don't generally come to a High Fantasy D20 game and try to play Shadowrun / Cyberbunk / World of Darkness.
So actually ... well.
Your post makes no sense to me. I'm sure you were trying to sound smart and witty, but to me it read exactly the opposite. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
686
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:47:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO). Hmm. I guess I don't understand why people come to Classic Traveller and then try to play Settlers of Cataan with it. If you want to play Settlers of Cataan, then play it, don't try to shoehorn incompatible rulesets into each other.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Angel Violette
The Filthy Few Pendulum of Doom
8
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:50:00 -
[294] - Quote
All Incursions will end soon .. this was just a temporary feature for EVE .. too much isk for too many people |
Lysaeus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
10
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:54:00 -
[295] - Quote
no more high sec incursions again. Bring out the buckets! |
Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
17
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Posted - 2012.01.22 22:57:00 -
[296] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO). Hmm. I guess I don't understand why people come to Classic Traveller and then try to play Settlers of Cataan with it. If you want to play Settlers of Cataan, then play it, don't try to shoehorn incompatible rulesets into each other.
hmmm, I guess you havn't a clue what we're talking about in here.
In case you missed it, we're talking about incursions, and the whining that's happening because two groups of people are playing the game differently. Not DnD and board games. |
Ai Shun
153
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Posted - 2012.01.22 23:04:00 -
[297] - Quote
Tak McMonagle wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO). Hmm. I guess I don't understand why people come to Classic Traveller and then try to play Settlers of Cataan with it. If you want to play Settlers of Cataan, then play it, don't try to shoehorn incompatible rulesets into each other. hmmm, I guess you havn't a clue what we're talking about in here. In case you missed it, we're talking about incursions, and the whining that's happening because two groups of people are playing the game differently. Not DnD and board games.
Uhm ... I should laugh but that would be impolite.
Edit: Maybe I should help educate you. Have a look at the word analogy. No, that is not what the mean man in the Retribution did to your Rifter. It is a comparison, used to illustrate something.
In this instance, my agreement with your point on Incursions resulted in Jas Dor having a brain fart and trying to explain by way of DnD. Both myself and Poetic attempted to explain to Jas that he/she did not understand the point by using the analogy of different rulesets.
You know, what happens when two groups of people are playing the game differently.
I hope that helps. If you need further help, read the Dictionary.com piece. There are some examples. And if that doesn't help, send me an EVE Mail and I'll give you some examples and try to explain it better. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
984
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 23:05:00 -
[298] - Quote
Well - interdicting all 3 highsec invursions today was certainly fun yet a tad boring - just fix any isk payouts for them (i.e. exactly zero) and they shoudl be fine as a part of NPE. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
Tak McMonagle
Black Rebel Rifter Club
18
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Posted - 2012.01.22 23:19:00 -
[299] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Tak McMonagle wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Hum, I guess you can't understand why people might get together and play D&D every week at a particular time (the PnP Game not the MMO). Hmm. I guess I don't understand why people come to Classic Traveller and then try to play Settlers of Cataan with it. If you want to play Settlers of Cataan, then play it, don't try to shoehorn incompatible rulesets into each other. hmmm, I guess you havn't a clue what we're talking about in here. In case you missed it, we're talking about incursions, and the whining that's happening because two groups of people are playing the game differently. Not DnD and board games. Uhm ... I should laugh but that would be impolite. Edit: Maybe I should help educate you. Have a look at the word analogy. No, that is not what the mean man in the Retribution did to your Rifter. It is a comparison, used to illustrate something. In this instance, my agreement with your point on Incursions resulted in Jas Dor having a brain fart and trying to explain by way of DnD. Both myself and Poetic attempted to explain to Jas that he/she did not understand the point by using the analogy of different rulesets. You know, what happens when two groups of people are playing the game differently. I hope that helps. If you need further help, read the Dictionary.com piece. There are some examples. And if that doesn't help, send me an EVE Mail and I'll give you some examples and try to explain it better.
lol, quoted the wrong guy. |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
3
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Posted - 2012.01.22 23:20:00 -
[300] - Quote
as simple as that, ccp invested a lot of money to create "incursions", some other people took the liberty of removing this part of eve for most of the players.
either ccp change the rules, or loose some subscribers, some people say they don't want anyway.
so let's wait and see, who is right |
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