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Kalazar
Amarr Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.24 10:26:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Kalazar on 24/09/2007 10:47:39 A possible way to deal with the logoffski problem would be to add a logout timer, sort of like the one in WoW (before you flame, read the rest of the post. Flaming just because you saw the word "WoW" just makes you an elitist moron).
Make it so that if you're docked in station, you can log off instantly. However, logging off in space you have to wait anywhere between 30 seconds and a minute (whatever CCP deems appropriate) before you actually log off. This doesn't take too much time out of the lives of people legitimatly logging off in space, and means that if you're logging to escape a gatecamp/because someone entered local you still have a chance to get caught.
Edit: Wow, I broke the entire discussion by mentioning WoW... ----------------------------------------------
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MrTiddles
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.24 22:00:00 -
[32]
Nah, you have the answer right there mate, most other mmo's have some form of "camp" feature that allows you to leave when you need to but you stay in the world for a certain amount of time if you DONT camp...
If someone is legitimately ratting, and i warp in, and they safe and cloak, then fine. whatever. if they log within 10 seconds of entering system, in a dead end system, that they've been in for months, they are using a program to exploit the game, and thus there should be a way to end this. +5 to the veto guy. :-P
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.24 22:17:00 -
[33]
The only way to sort this, and I know a lot of people wont like it, is to have each 0.0 rat scramble.
This way if you want to make the isk, you got to take the risk.
Currently, the new generation of isk farmers fit a raven with cloak, smartbomb, WCS and a sensorbooster into their setup. Unless you have 2 points, they can warp away. The sensor bosoter cancels out the wcs penalty to an extent, but the point is, a cloaked raven wcs'ed can logoff 100% safely and with impunity the second someone comes into local.
In other words, the isk farmer does not need to commit to a spawn to make isk. He can press the I-Win button to logoff with impunity in the event of any danger.
So the solution has to be the rats themselves. A Raven fighting 5 rats will have 5 points on him. Someone comes into local? Well, if the raven loggs off, it will get pounded by the rats. The Isk Farmer has no choice to kill the spawn he commited to before warping off.
Then again it is not a ideal solution, but the only one I can think off that actually means that the isk farmer has to commit to his spawn. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Aralt Aran
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Posted - 2007.09.24 23:08:00 -
[34]
I have the solution,you can`t logoff from eve ,you are always in the game.Think about it....
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.25 08:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Aralt Aran
I have the solution,you can`t logoff from eve ,you are always in the game.Think about it....
I always thought this is the way it should be : )
But being able to logoff and disappear within 60 seconds of being in combat with a rat needs to be adjusted to the same penalty as engaging in pvp with a player. God forbid a pirate have to logoff but the ISK farmers do it all the time. Make it fair - - pvp logout timer and pve logout timers both at 15 minutes.
~Treb
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Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.25 09:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah
Originally by: Aralt Aran
I have the solution,you can`t logoff from eve ,you are always in the game.Think about it....
I always thought this is the way it should be : )
But being able to logoff and disappear within 60 seconds of being in combat with a rat needs to be adjusted to the same penalty as engaging in pvp with a player. God forbid a pirate have to logoff but the ISK farmers do it all the time. Make it fair - - pvp logout timer and pve logout timers both at 15 minutes.
~Treb
No way. The current mechanic for logoffski is fine. If a prober plans ahead, he will ALWAYS kill the logger. Unless it were a capital I guess. Even the 2 minute timer is enough for 1 myrm and a helios to take out a raven. Especially seeing as the main culprits of this tactic have perfectly predictable resistances. Considering that there are legitimate logouts caused by lag, ISP issues etc, it would be too unfair to have people losing their ships whilst trying to get back ingame. Just the other night I was tanking a spawn and my ISP started doing upgrades. Under your system, anyone with the most basic probing skills would have been able to get a free domi kill. That is ridiculous.
I think the rats with scrams is an awful idea. Roaming gangs wouldn't even need interceptors to catch ratters.
Just do something about the "prototype cloaking device". I've put a lot of time into camping these ravens, and if you get a smart one, they don't log. The only time you can get em is after DT. Smart ones wont even log just before DT. They make sure that you never get to them. Im about to try 20au probe ambushes, but ravens warp a bit too fast and the probe is a bit too inaccurate I suspect. If CCP will do nothing else, at least give someone with max probing skills, the chance to land on the raven at his safe. Ie, put a delay for cloaking on if using proto cloaking device right after exiting warp. About 3-5seconds. This adds an extra element into the game. It becomes a mindgame of whether to probe right away, or probe after a few seconds so you get into his safe.
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Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.25 10:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lord WarATron The only way to sort this, and I know a lot of people wont like it, is to have each 0.0 rat scramble.
This way if you want to make the isk, you got to take the risk.
Currently, the new generation of isk farmers fit a raven with cloak, smartbomb, WCS and a sensorbooster into their setup. Unless you have 2 points, they can warp away. The sensor bosoter cancels out the wcs penalty to an extent, but the point is, a cloaked raven wcs'ed can logoff 100% safely and with impunity the second someone comes into local.
This is true and has been already noticed by our gank squads. Their ratting setup is somewhat gimped compared to a "standard" setup but allows to get away.
However killing ratting raven isn't as bad as the op makes it out to be. If you just stay in system, they'll get used to your presence. You can map their movements and camp gates where their haulers pass to bring loot in empire, and refill ammo; you can kill their POSes.
The OP just wants some easy ganks evidently, because with enough time and knowledge there's no invulnerable ratter.
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DannyMoe
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Posted - 2007.09.25 11:30:00 -
[38]
you should be able to log off wenever you want rl is always making me logg off an i dont wana come back to a pod just because i have to go some rl stuff
RL is more important than eve!
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Granmethedon III
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.25 11:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: DannyMoe you should be able to log off wenever you want rl is always making me logg off an i dont wana come back to a pod just because i have to go some rl stuff
RL is more important than eve!
In which case losing your ship isn't really a big deal, right?
Personally, I don't see why logging off in space should make your ship disappear. I really don't. Problems with crashes etc can be dealt with via the petition system, anything else and you just take your chance.
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Aralt Aran
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Posted - 2007.09.25 11:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DannyMoe you should be able to log off wenever you want rl is always making me logg off an i dont wana come back to a pod just because i have to go some rl stuff
RL is more important than eve!
When you can`t logoff ,but you want to go to your RL world you have to dock first or go to a pos.Every one will see you maybe with a not active sign above your head.And finaly you can see all your corps members that are in your corps active and not active.And no more login traps no more isk famers less isk sellers,real pure pvp without scamming.Makes eve more fun to play as it was ment tobe.And you have to think twice before you leave the game .Maybe that thinking part is a bit hard
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.25 11:58:00 -
[41]
YES! Lets make ratting in 0.0 more dangerous! Cause this way your space will be empty again and everyone will be running lvl 4 missions in 0.5+ being entirely save.
You cannot nerf 0.0, not now. This "you get scrambled by each rat idea" is just stupid. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Granmethedon III
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: madaluap YES! Lets make ratting in 0.0 more dangerous! Cause this way your space will be empty again and everyone will be running lvl 4 missions in 0.5+ being entirely save.
You cannot nerf 0.0, not now. This "you get scrambled by each rat idea" is just stupid.
I agree that that's not the best idea, but in my opinion, you shouldn't be safe if you log off outside a station.
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fell1234
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:17:00 -
[43]
If you are engaged in any form of combat aggressive action. You should have at least a 5 minute timer of remaining in game. Anyone caught logging off repeatedly to avoid game mechanics should be banned.
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Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.25 12:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: fell1234 If you are engaged in any form of combat aggressive action. You should have at least a 5 minute timer of remaining in game. Anyone caught logging off repeatedly to avoid game mechanics should be banned.
I'm here to repeat that probers have no issues reaching a logged off character provided it logged off in the same system. I have also probed out characters as soon as I enter a system (they werent in local).
I also logged in and out multiple times the other night because my connection kept dropping. You're saying I should be banned for that?
Someone present me with a scenario where the existing probe rules are insufficient. If your entire complaint is "well our alliance/corp dont have no probers, we is all HACs n DPS!", that is not CCPs' problem.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:10:00 -
[45]
Well currently the system if flawed in my opinion. Pirates have RL issues too, but they are penalized for logging off with a timer. Ratters don't have to worry about this. So ratters are allowed to have RL issues and pirates aren't?
Sounds like a case of chewbacca. Doesn't make sense....
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SirMoric
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:27:00 -
[46]
I don't see the ratters create a problem really?
It's not like they pose any danger or stealing your rats, is it? The problem seems to be the fact that you obviously declare sovereignty over space you don't control or have the forces to control, right?
If you really had the forces to continously patrol the space, the ratters won't be there or they'll become careless and you'll catch them.
So if you redeploy some of your forces you should be able to catch them, but using the excuse that they cloak everytime you enter space (once a week) then the system is not really yours.
And please remember that the system of log-off is actually a pretty good system, cause it gives the people with bad connections a chance to save their ships when the connection goes poof.
If I lost connection while ratting or doing missions, I'd be rather sad if I found my ship destroyed by pirates when I logged back in. I know you're not safe in EVE but loosing ships due lost connection, that sucks enough to make people stop playing.
But if you want to prevent people from ratting, in a way where they don't really steal anything from you, then redeploy your forces and put more effort into patrolling.
rgds
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343conspiracy43345
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:39:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vrizuh
Originally by: fell1234 If you are engaged in any form of combat aggressive action. You should have at least a 5 minute timer of remaining in game. Anyone caught logging off repeatedly to avoid game mechanics should be banned.
I'm here to repeat that probers have no issues reaching a logged off character provided it logged off in the same system. I have also probed out characters as soon as I enter a system (they werent in local).
I also logged in and out multiple times the other night because my connection kept dropping. You're saying I should be banned for that?
Someone present me with a scenario where the existing probe rules are insufficient. If your entire complaint is "well our alliance/corp dont have no probers, we is all HACs n DPS!", that is not CCPs' problem.
I agree.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: 343conspiracy43345
Originally by: Vrizuh
Originally by: fell1234 If you are engaged in any form of combat aggressive action. You should have at least a 5 minute timer of remaining in game. Anyone caught logging off repeatedly to avoid game mechanics should be banned.
I'm here to repeat that probers have no issues reaching a logged off character provided it logged off in the same system. I have also probed out characters as soon as I enter a system (they werent in local).
I also logged in and out multiple times the other night because my connection kept dropping. You're saying I should be banned for that?
Someone present me with a scenario where the existing probe rules are insufficient. If your entire complaint is "well our alliance/corp dont have no probers, we is all HACs n DPS!", that is not CCPs' problem.
I agree.
Then why is the pvp timer 15 minutes? If you are hunting pirates then your corp should have a dedicated prober?
~Treb
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Zephlin Abath
Core Element
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:00:00 -
[49]
I don't go out looking for fights, And I havn't made that many bangs in the EVE galaxy really...
But faced from other games when people can just quit and begon to avoid the pain of failure, is cheap.
Even myself, I prefer to fight to the bitter end even if it results in me being a little to slow to warp the little pod to safety.
And even if you have a real life issue that deams you must logoffski, with greifers, gankers and other unsavory types, you should have to wait to log off, to give those the chance to offically beat you and give meaning to "Stay and fight!"
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 20:01:00 -
[50]
And no, I'm not letting it go :)
~Treb
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.27 04:45:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 27/09/2007 04:45:13 Heppened to four different targets tonight. Safespot & logoffski....... gone within 60 seconds.
~Treb
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Khes
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Posted - 2007.09.27 07:34:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Aralt Aran
I have the solution,you can`t logoff from eve ,you are always in the game.Think about it....
That is actually a rather interessting way of approching the problem. Interessting for sure, but it does not solve the problem with a computer crash. What happens then?
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.27 07:52:00 -
[53]
Calling it logoffski insults my slavic friends, who I'm willing to bet aren't the ethnicity of the offenders you're looking for. Please reword.
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Vrizuh
Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2007.09.27 08:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 27/09/2007 04:45:13 Heppened to four different targets tonight. Safespot & logoffski....... gone within 60 seconds.
~Treb
Ok, last night I did miss out on a vagabond.
My position remains. That player had to actively warp his arse off, and have a very fast ship, in order to evade capture. I also screwed up my placement of probes, and used the wrong ones. Had I used a spook at either end of the system, he'd be dead.
The 15min timer exists for various reasons, but I guess the main one is that a gang shouldn't be able to logoffski. Even with a prober you'd be hard pressed finding and destroying 8 ships in under 2 minutes. 1 ship however, is perfectly possible.
If your gang lacks a dictor/mobile warp disruptor, you miss out on pods. If your gang lacks a prober, you miss out on logoffskis. If your gang lacks battleships, you miss out on capitals (I guess? Im not really a pvper) etc etc. Bring the scissors to the paper fight and you'll be fine.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.27 08:36:00 -
[55]
What if I bring Raptor Jesus?
~Treb
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Allan Robertson
Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.27 16:27:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Allan Robertson on 27/09/2007 16:27:12 Moan, moan, moan and moan, I was in 0.0 for a time about a year ago, and you 0.0 nuts can moan more than a Empire dweller. CCP does not need to invent a 'I win button' to please you loonies.
--- Say YES! to Mining Cargo Holds on barges! |
Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.
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Posted - 2007.09.30 22:24:00 -
[57]
I just dont understand why theres a timer for pvp combat and not for people engaging in combat with rats; noone has made a valid arguement beyond "moan moan -- I like boys" or "thats just the way it is." But I'm not suprised - this is the EvE-O Forums afterall...
~Treb
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Mad0ne
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Posted - 2007.10.02 11:58:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Mad0ne on 02/10/2007 12:03:10 I do think that 0.0 ratters should get aggro timer as well - it`s same as "ratting" other players! :)
Also I think that ctrl+q should be nerfed that IF you get targeted and your warp drive disrupted = no escape for you buddy! It`s against EVE!!!! got scrambled = no warp!!!! wtf why logofskis can warp then?
I have escaped from enemy blob with raven - jumped in "oops, taranis, crow, maeldiction in 20 km range and more ships on scanner" Okay, it was time to ctrl+q, when I loged back I`m was in half armour and just saved another 150+ mil.
CCP should make coverts (buzzard etc.) able to scan cloaked ships!!!!!!!!!!!111 And give stealth bombers an a covert ops cloaking device!
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.10.02 12:54:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 02/10/2007 12:54:25 Well all you elite pvpers are always complaining how carebears ruin the game for you, and that people who use logoffski should be banned, or whatever.
If i recall, rats in any system from 0.1+ in belts/at gates (does happen) give an aggro timer, just not 0.0 or mission rats.
Maybe, just maybe, your not supposed to kill everyone in every system you jump into, lone raven FARMER or not.
One thing i dont get is whenever a carebear complains about being ganked the pvpers laugh at them and tell them to GTFO of eve and "Go back to WoW" at least the carebears only laugh at the pvpers when they dont get things easy.
Who complains the most, the ganked or the outwitted ganker?
Just to say, i think a 2/3 minute timer might be reasonable though.
Welcome to EvE |
Skynet91
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Posted - 2007.10.02 13:41:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah I just dont understand why theres a timer for pvp combat and not for people engaging in combat with rats; noone has made a valid arguement beyond "moan moan -- I like boys" or "thats just the way it is." But I'm not suprised - this is the EvE-O Forums afterall...
~Treb
It should be clear to any person with a mid to high IQ y a person engaged with ratting does not have an aggression timer.....
1. a Rat is not a player 2. destroying a rat does not cause million upon millions of isk and possible months of works damage to another Human being 3. if you choose to destroy someones hard work they should have the opportunity to have their corp/2nd/3rd/4th account hunt you down and destroy your hard work - this obviously doesn't apply to a rat. 4. pirates are generally scared of any thing that resembles a "fair" fight, y should players younger then yourselves be susceptible to someone who has twice their sp just because you cant be stuffed to bring a prober with you.
being caldari i have learnt that theirs almost no such thing as "solo pvp" which is y i am currently training a gallant alt, point being that just because bringing a prober (or a tackler in my case) is to hard of a task for you the game shouldn't be changing to suit your needs. you don't see me asking for all caldari ships to come with a AI tackler counterpart just because i dont want to ask someone to come with me on my pvp expedition do you?
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