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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Opinionated Git
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Posted - 2007.09.25 17:29:00 -
[1]
asdf
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Shell Guardian
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Posted - 2007.09.25 18:06:00 -
[2]
Woah woah woah..........slow down dude, you're going a mile a minute!!!!
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Original Species
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Posted - 2007.09.25 18:11:00 -
[3]
lol, that story made me lmao.......
"Dont Taze me bro" and then BAM, gets tazed..............
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CrushProject
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Posted - 2007.09.25 19:42:00 -
[4]
thats funny to you? The guy was just asking a question at open forum. Regardless of the outrageous line of questioning the guy had, its just another sign of oppression in a supposed free society.
Try saying something bad about ccp here. You'll get the digital equivalent lol. Welcome to the free world.
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Franconis
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2007.09.25 20:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: CrushProject thats funny to you? The guy was just asking a question at open forum. Regardless of the outrageous line of questioning the guy had, its just another sign of oppression in a supposed free society.
Try saying something bad about ccp here. You'll get the digital equivalent lol. Welcome to the free world.
While I agree that it's not funny, i think you are a bit confused about freedom of speech.
There is a difference between asking a question to a politician and wrenching control of a politician's public question and answer time. Kerry's speech was NOT an open forum, it was a time and place for him to speak and answer questions. The police were right to remove the student from the speech because he was not obeying the rules of the event, but they were in my opinion wrong to use as much force as they did without prior warning or explanation.
As for free speech in an open forum elsewhere (here), there is a difference between participating in discussion and flaming/trolling which does nothing but derail and distract the topic being discussed. From what I've seen, ccp only removes posts that are irrelevant to the topic at hand and have no place in the thread anyway. Yes, you are free to express your opinion here and in public. You are not free to be distracting, misleading, and even violent so that the flow of discussion changes in your favor. In a nutshell, don't be an ignorant ****** about what you say and you'll be allowed to speak. _________ I R teh Minnie Meanie |
Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.09.25 20:48:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Trishan on 25/09/2007 20:48:01
Originally by: Franconis
The police were right to remove the student from the speech because he was not obeying the rules of the event, but they were in my opinion wrong to use as much force as they did without prior warning or explanation.
In the civilized part of the world we don't go around tasering people when they talk for too long, with or without explanation. Of course here people have the guts to actually stand up if they see something like that happening to someone.
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Modrak Vseth
Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.25 21:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Trishan Edited by: Trishan on 25/09/2007 20:48:01
Originally by: Franconis
The police were right to remove the student from the speech because he was not obeying the rules of the event, but they were in my opinion wrong to use as much force as they did without prior warning or explanation.
In the civilized part of the world we don't go around tasering people when they talk for too long, with or without explanation. Of course here people have the guts to actually stand up if they see something like that happening to someone.
He wasn't tased because of his question, he was tased for resisting arrest. When the police tell you to lay down and put your hands behind your back, you do it. Refusing puts doubt into their mind as to your intentions. What if while he was wrestling with those officers he pulled a pistol out of his waistband or managed to wrestle one of the officers' pistol out of their holster? Should they have waited until it escalated to that before taking the steps necesary to subdue him?
So, I'm sure the next question is "Well, why was he under arrest for a question?" He wasn't under arrest for his questions either. He was arrested for trying to incite unrest, the same way you can be arrested for screaming fire in a movie theater (although that's inciting panic). You actually hear the police trying to explain that to him if you watch the video that the NBC cameraman took.
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King GeorgeV
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Posted - 2007.09.25 22:24:00 -
[8]
Edited by: King GeorgeV on 25/09/2007 22:24:55
Originally by: Modrak Vseth
Originally by: Trishan Edited by: Trishan on 25/09/2007 20:48:01
Originally by: Franconis
The police were right to remove the student from the speech because he was not obeying the rules of the event, but they were in my opinion wrong to use as much force as they did without prior warning or explanation.
In the civilized part of the world we don't go around tasering people when they talk for too long, with or without explanation. Of course here people have the guts to actually stand up if they see something like that happening to someone.
He wasn't tased because of his question, he was tased for resisting arrest. When the police tell you to lay down and put your hands behind your back, you do it. Refusing puts doubt into their mind as to your intentions. What if while he was wrestling with those officers he pulled a pistol out of his waistband or managed to wrestle one of the officers' pistol out of their holster? Should they have waited until it escalated to that before taking the steps necesary to subdue him?
So, I'm sure the next question is "Well, why was he under arrest for a question?" He wasn't under arrest for his questions either. He was arrested for trying to incite unrest, the same way you can be arrested for screaming fire in a movie theater (although that's inciting panic). You actually hear the police trying to explain that to him if you watch the video that the NBC cameraman took.
In a normal democracy we dont punish people for what might happen with potential lethal force (which i believe tasers are).
If the world had sense, he would have been escorted off in as polite manner as possible, instead of using police brutality to silence a voice.
Dont question for i am King
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.25 23:41:00 -
[9]
I'm glad I live in a free and democratic country that doesn't taser people for talking too long or being a bit emotional.
You'll note that Kerry answered the questions raised despite taser bro being removed. There wasn't any unrest as some of the audience appeared bored by his ranting.
For those that believe it's the correct procedure should ask why two of the officers have been placed on administrative leave pending investigation.
I'm also not interested in reading peoples self-righteous opinions in relation to why they think living in a police state is great for freedom.
"Bush won the election because he wanted it more than Kerry" - Hunter S. Thompson.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.09.26 00:04:00 -
[10]
1. Free speech is only a legally protected right in American GOVERNMENT institutions as far as I know, so a private institution for example can curtail speech in any manner they see fit.
2. Just because you have the "right" to say something does not mean saying anything is cool, a w*nker is a w*nker whether he is allowed to be one or not.
3. When some in-your-face liberal ***** gets tazed I think we all laugh a little bit, 'cus it is funny.
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Modrak Vseth
Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.26 00:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: King GeorgeV In a normal democracy we dont punish people for what might happen with potential lethal force (which i believe tasers are). Quote:
Tasers are far from "lethal force". It's one of the best ways to be subdued in fact. Trust me, I rather be tased then hit with pepper spray or mace ANY DAY (and yes, I've been hit with all 3). The pain of being tased is intense but very shortlived, less then 5 seconds for full effect. You feel absolutely no pain within 30 seconds.
Originally by: King GeorgeV If the world had sense, he would have been escorted off in as polite manner as possible, instead of using police brutality to silence a voice.
This tells me that you didn't watch the whole video then (or you watched one that didn't have a decent angle on the event, such as the one his little buddy filmed). They TRIED to escort him off. He started thrashing and fighting. While they were trying to subdue him he was fighting with them. That's when it became resisting arrest.
Originally by: Devian 666 You'll note that Kerry answered the questions raised despite taser bro being removed. There wasn't any unrest as some of the audience appeared bored by his ranting.
He answered the FIRST question, yes. Kerry didn't know that idiot-boy had been tased and he admitted that he didn't see the entire exchange between him and the police.
Originally by: Devian 666}For those that believe it's the correct procedure should ask why two of the officers have been placed on administrative leave pending investigation.[/quote
Because that's standard procedure after most incidents with a high public profile. Notice that they are on administrative (paid, as in not fired) leave PENDING investigation. Doesn't mean the department is admitting they did anything wrong. It just means they're going to cross their T's and dot their I's.
Originally by: Devian 666 I'm also not interested in reading peoples self-righteous opinions in relation to why they think living in a police state is great for freedom.
And I'm not interested in reading peoples self-rightous opinions in relation to how they think my country is run despite the fact they don't even live here.
In the end, he did it for the attention (he knew his little tirade would get him on the news), and he got exactly what he wanted, although he probably wasn't expecting a tasing. His ******** little website probably got more hits the day after the incident then it had the entire year prior.
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ollobrains
Mission Invasion Squad
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:02:00 -
[12]
resisting arrest is breaking the law they used approrpate force to subdue him so he could be arrested, they could have pulled a gun on him which was within their duties and legal options Group mission invasions |
Crazy Broad
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Arii Smith 3. When some in-your-face liberal ***** gets tazed I think we all laugh a little bit, 'cus it is funny.
When some arrogant conservative gets in trouble for molesting another boy, I think we all laugh a little bit, 'cus it is funny. Especially how oftend it happens ------------------------------
Originally by: Captian Internet
This thread isn't delivery its digorno
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Arii Smith
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Crazy Broad
Originally by: Arii Smith 3. When some in-your-face liberal ***** gets tazed I think we all laugh a little bit, 'cus it is funny.
When some arrogant conservative gets in trouble for molesting another boy, I think we all laugh a little bit, 'cus it is funny. Especially how oftend it happens
Lol I laugh at both, extremists of any denomination are so stupid it is funny. I only commented on liberals because in this case it was a liberal making a fool of himself. Bleed-heart liberals with who cry about every little injustice and perceived wrong-doing are at least as common as the child-molesting "I am not ***, I have never been ***" conservatives.
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Zaethiel
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:25:00 -
[15]
They had the right to remove him from the room since he rambled on and on and on and on which is disruptive to the event. The police officer asked him to stop then he didnt so she forcfully escorted him. He then jumped away from her and tried to run around the room further disrupting the event. They then placed him under arrest in which he resisted. htey warned him about being tasered and he obeyed, then he suddenly decided to start struggling again. They warned him again and he started yelling dont taze me. Struggled more and then he got tasered. Hes just one of those people that stand around Turlingtin yelling at people walking by trying to get accross whatever they believe. -------------------------- Piwate Bunny Wuv
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:44:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Devian 666 on 26/09/2007 02:44:55
Originally by: Modrak Vseth Edited by: Modrak Vseth on 26/09/2007 01:05:49 Edited by: Modrak Vseth on 26/09/2007 01:05:24
Originally by: Devian 666 I'm also not interested in reading peoples self-righteous opinions in relation to why they think living in a police state is great for freedom.
And I'm not interested in reading peoples self-rightous opinions in relation to how they think my country is run despite the fact they don't even live here.
In the end, he did it for the attention (he knew his little tirade would get him on the news), and he got exactly what he wanted, although he probably wasn't expecting a tasing. His ******** little website probably got more hits the day after the incident then it had the entire year prior.
I don't live in the States because I don't choose to, and I also don't intend to return. Last time I checked I'm free to form my opinions.
You're quite right he did it for the attention but taser bro could have had some more manners, and pitched what he was saying more respectfully. From the videos I've seen it's hard to tell what happend but not complying with police requests is never going to turn out well.
Despite my disgust at what happend and that it's unfortunately making Kerry look bad (by association) it didn't stop me from watching the extra-crispy remix on youtube. When I told me mate the name of the video he just about spat all his beer over my computer he was laughing so much.
Edit: oh and awesome cartoon. I'll have to borrow the series off of my friend.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Modrak Vseth
Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Devian 666 I don't live in the States because I don't choose to, and I also don't intend to return. Last time I checked I'm free to form my opinions.
You're quite right he did it for the attention but taser bro could have had some more manners, and pitched what he was saying more respectfully. From the videos I've seen it's hard to tell what happend but not complying with police requests is never going to turn out well.
Despite my disgust at what happend and that it's unfortunately making Kerry look bad (by association) it didn't stop me from watching the extra-crispy remix on youtube. When I told me mate the name of the video he just about spat all his beer over my computer he was laughing so much.
Edit: oh and awesome cartoon. I'll have to borrow the series off of my friend.
I can respect that. It's one thing to disagree with a system and decide to not take part in it (by not living in that country) or to do whatever is within your rights (without crossing the line) to show your disagreement, as you've done. It's quite another to push that line, stomp on it and spit on it and then cry "foul" when your bluff gets called.
And on that note, we'll agree to disagree since this has nothing to do with intrawebs spaceships and related piracy.
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Modrak Vseth
Originally by: Devian 666 I don't live in the States because I don't choose to, and I also don't intend to return. Last time I checked I'm free to form my opinions.
You're quite right he did it for the attention but taser bro could have had some more manners, and pitched what he was saying more respectfully. From the videos I've seen it's hard to tell what happend but not complying with police requests is never going to turn out well.
Despite my disgust at what happend and that it's unfortunately making Kerry look bad (by association) it didn't stop me from watching the extra-crispy remix on youtube. When I told me mate the name of the video he just about spat all his beer over my computer he was laughing so much.
Edit: oh and awesome cartoon. I'll have to borrow the series off of my friend.
I can respect that. It's one thing to disagree with a system and decide to not take part in it (by not living in that country) or to do whatever is within your rights (without crossing the line) to show your disagreement, as you've done. It's quite another to push that line, stomp on it and spit on it and then cry "foul" when your bluff gets called.
And on that note, we'll agree to disagree since this has nothing to do with intrawebs spaceships and related piracy.
Exactly. We can agree to disagree and respect each others options. That's why we don't need to be tasered.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Vorok
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Vorok on 26/09/2007 04:42:09 Odd forum choice, but...
This isn't a matter of free speech - it's solely an issue of reasonable force. For the record, I'm a left leaning moderate and think Bush is incompetent.
The student's political beliefs DID NOT justify his tirade. Free speech does not entitle you to steal the floor for a rant and then resist the police. It's a shame that he couldn't engage in meaningful and respectful dialog with Senator Kerry. He went the route of sensationalists like Michael Moore, who make a living out of dragging the left through the mud. IMO, he was looking to cause a ruckus. His actions before and during the scuffle support that conclusion.
The only way to come to an informed (not based on assumptions, first impressions, or political ideology) opinion on the matter is to analyze the actions of both him and the officers.
1) His rant lasts a minute and a half with no intention of asking a serious question to the senator. He does not allow Kerry to answer his first question because he has "two more" (more ranting). This was very disrespectful to both the senator and the students gathered. He'd essentially stolen the microphone for an soapbox rambling to his captive audience at a time when he can get attention, rather than trying to garner it on his own merits. My conclusion: He abused the -privilege- of speaking at the Q&A session. The Constitution does not guarantee you the right to disrupt a forum by ranting and raving, nor does it guarantee you a microphone and captive audience.
2) Officers begin with touch direction (they take his arms and lead him away). They take his arms and attempt to lead him out. At first they seem to have control over him, until he jerks his right arm, bringing both officers to a halt. Any passive resistance at this point ends and he begins actively struggling to escape them. My conclusion: Leading him away seems appropriate. He escalates the situation by resisting.
3) Note that throughout the struggle, he is talking and appealing to the audience. His attention remains fixed upon them even as officers regain control of him after he backpedals.
4) At this point the officers have control of him again and begin walking him out in a different direction. He appears to still be resisting as he continues yelling to the audience. He does not want to go that way, because the audience is HERE.
5) An officer lifts him and forces him to the back of the room. He screams "help" several times to the audience, along with "they're arresting me" in a tone that suggests it is outrageous. Is he trying to rile up the crowd? My conclusion: He's trying to rile up the crowd.
6) It's hard to see what happens next. He then gains a bit of space and then lunges with his shoulder out in the direction of an exit. It seems as if he strikes an officer with that shoulder, but it's hard to tell. My conclusion: I'll have to wait for the report.
7) He is forced to the ground on his back. Officers attempt to pin and handcuff him, but he continues to fight. Officers tell him several times to stop resisting. My conclusion: I'm with the police so far.
8) An officer warns him that he will be tased if he continues to resist. He suggests they let him go and allow him to walk away and continues to resist. The officers are unable to cuff him. At some point they get him onto his stomach, but he manages to twist his body so he can face up. My conclusion: If he presented his arms for cuffing, this would end. They need to put him under control.
TASER TIME 9) Here's the real "should they have?" moment. After about 50 seconds of resistance since being taken to the ground, he is tased. He screams, and says "ow" a lot, which is understandable because being tased hurts. The tasing takes the fight out of him and he is taken away. My conclusion: He resisted and fought with police officers for quite a while. He was given ample warning well before the tasing. It seems justified, IMO
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:46:00 -
[20]
whats going on and wtf is going through peoples heads to make such a cartoon?
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:47:00 -
[21]
samurai pizza cats needed more tazers
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Vorok
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.09.26 05:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Vorok on 26/09/2007 05:09:40 Pizza cats? Best ever? PAH, I say to you. PAH and double PAH. What did we learn from pizza cats? NOTHING.
What did we learn from GI Joe? That in the future, we'll have laser guns that can't hit stationary man-sized targets at close range, fire extinguishers will be able to freeze snakes in solid ice, and terrorists will discover a means of hiding armies with tanks in the middle of American cities. Useful knowledge? YOU KNOW IT.
Originally by: CrushProject thats funny to you? The guy was just asking a question at open forum. Regardless of the outrageous line of questioning the guy had, its just another sign of oppression in a supposed free society.
Try saying something bad about ccp here. You'll get the digital equivalent lol. Welcome to the free world.
You're obviously a pizza cat supporter. It's pretty clear from full videos that he was ranting and raving, rather than actually asking 'tough questions'. He was causing a disruption to the event. Had he not resisted the police and started a scene, he would have been escorted out of the building and that would have been that.
Then he could have gotten a delicious pizza, delivered by the world's deadliest cats.
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Shikaku
Minmatar Rush Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.26 06:13:00 -
[23]
I laughed
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Dimitry Kalashnikov
Dark Tornado
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Posted - 2007.09.26 15:58:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dimitry Kalashnikov on 26/09/2007 15:58:34
Originally by: Trishan Edited by: Trishan on 25/09/2007 20:48:01
Originally by: Franconis
The police were right to remove the student from the speech because he was not obeying the rules of the event, but they were in my opinion wrong to use as much force as they did without prior warning or explanation.
In the civilized part of the world we don't go around tasering people when they talk for too long, with or without explanation. Of course here people have the guts to actually stand up if they see something like that happening to someone.
I really hope your not talking about USA. Some of the biggest oppression happens there to minorities like black people and no one but the black people act against it.
But then again, where else would a student get tazed for speaking but in USA.
FZN FORUMS |
Lief Siddhe
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:20:00 -
[25]
There are MANY countries in the world where a student inciting unrest will not only be tasered, but clubbed or shot as well.
Although him being arrested and tasered - I don't know how that goes with "Freedom of speech" - he was arrested for speaking. Although he obviously did it to disrupt Kerry, but still - freedom of speech and all.
As far as the arrest itself goes, the cops minimized the damage and did what they had to do to subdue him. Whether there was really any legal justification why he needed to be silenced... I dunno.
And samurai pizza cats ruled!
I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when the drugs began to take hold |
Dimitry Kalashnikov
Dark Tornado
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lief Siddhe There are MANY countries in the world where a student inciting unrest will not only be tasered, but clubbed or shot as well.
Yes but those students know better than to talk. ============================================== Dark Tornado - Just like a Tornado, but darker |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:38:00 -
[27]
Is it wrong that i not only like the samurai pizzacats, but i still remember the words to the opening song
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hellsknights
Hells Angels Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:41:00 -
[28]
PLease put this thread in the RP section.
recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
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Vorok
Silver Aria
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Posted - 2007.09.26 20:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lief Siddhe Although him being arrested and tasered - I don't know how that goes with "Freedom of speech" - he was arrested for speaking. Although he obviously did it to disrupt Kerry, but still - freedom of speech and all.
At an elementary school play, is it okay for an adult to jump onto the stage and start giving a speech? At a sports game, is it okay for a member of the audience to jump out of the stands and start telling the ref off? At a Broadway musical, is it okay for someone to stand up and start screaming about how taxes are too high? If someone is being interviewed by a reporter, but refuses to give back the mic and lectures into the camera about the importance of fiscal stability, is that okay? Freedom of speech does not guarantee the right to disrupt an event for someone else. Freedom of speech is about the government not censoring the media, allowing for freedom to discuss whatever you want with whoever you want without fear of government reprisal, etc. It does not give you the right to stand in a certain place and commandeer an event.
He was not arrested for speaking. He was arrested for resisting the police and attempting to incite the audience ("HELP HELP" "SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING" was in fact an attempt to rile up the crowd). Originally he was only going to be removed from the building for being disruptive - NOT arrested. The arrest begins when he starts flailing around and from one angle it seems as if he elbows a cop towards the end.
Watch a full video and read a full story and you'll see he was already in trouble for being disruptive (he'd interrupted another student's question earlier) and had been asked to get to the point of his question (rambling rant). He's far from being an innocent hero of free speech.
In other news, there are no pizza cats in Iran. They do not have this phenomenon.
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.26 22:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme samurai pizza cats needed more tazers
The ninja turtles never tasered anyone. I think we should speak out against the Pizza Cats.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
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