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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
786
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Posted - 2012.01.24 13:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm ok IF:
Armor ships get some set with auto self regeneration of armor.
Noes?
Well if you can't figure out shield is far too good then no one can help you. (looks at the shield fit domi 1300dps like a vindicator)
OK then make missile dmg mods mid slot and take away the natural regeneration of shields.
It's a fair trade right? |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
94
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Posted - 2012.01.24 16:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:I'm ok IF:
Armor ships get some set with auto self regeneration of armor.
Noes?
Well if you can't figure out shield is far too good then no one can help you. (looks at the shield fit domi 1300dps like a vindicator)
OK then make missile dmg mods mid slot and take away the natural regeneration of shields.
It's a fair trade right?
Shure drop my cap use on shield boosters and their fitting requirement down to armor.
I wouldn't call shield better, its just there applications are so different. The go to for spider tanking in all size category's is armor. The best one for solo repp'n is shield on big stuff armor on little stuff. Passive armor hurts larger ships less and ruins small ships speed, wile passive shield+MWD can ruin a cruiser and is highly dangerous on a battle ship if dreads and titans be about!! I still think its funny that the side that every one loves to passive has an active imp set well slaves is most often used for active rep'n cap fits.
Guns get two damage mods missiles get one, your complaint is invalid, you should be asking for a drone damage mod or some thing else. Also armor gets better resist that are different based on race, shields get the same all the time. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Jacob Stov
7
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
If the starting point for this balancing are supercaps, then I think shield slaves are a bad idea. Armor users get usually the fatter buffer mods, read plates. Since there are no 3200 mm armor plates and less impressive XL shield extenders, it is all about base resists and hardeners.
High quality deadspace shield hardeners and a fix to the session change problem of shield tanks will do the trick for me. I would prefer reduced CPU req. for shield transfer modules across the board. If any further change is seen as necessary.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
52
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jacob Stov wrote:If the starting point for this balancing are supercaps, then I think shield slaves are a bad idea. Armor users get usually the fatter buffer mods, read plates. Since there are no 3200 mm armor plates and less impressive XL shield extenders, it is all about base resists and hardeners.
High quality deadspace shield hardeners and a fix to the session change problem of shield tanks will do the trick for me. I would prefer reduced CPU req. for shield transfer modules across the board. If any further change is seen as necessary.
Since CCP made known their intentions in the capital balancing thread I think we can assume that is the starting point, but if shield slaves are a bad idea on caps why not just not allow armor slaves on caps?
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Jacob Stov
7
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:
OK then make missile dmg mods mid slot and take away the natural regeneration of shields.
It's a fair trade right?
Like painters and webs for example ? But you are right. There should be no need for such tools that make the Torpraven look even worse compared to any frog battlehip.
Let guided missile precision effect the now so called "unguided" missiles, too !
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Jacob Stov
7
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Posted - 2012.01.25 01:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:
Since CCP made known their intentions in the capital balancing thread I think we can assume that is the starting point, but if shield slaves are a bad idea on caps why not just not allow armor slaves on caps?
Shield tank gets the better resist modules, armor has the advantage in buffer mods. Plates are available in one extra size.
Since there are no capital sized buffer mods, that advantage armor traditionally enjoys is noexistant for caps and supers. On the other hand the higher resist hardeners do matter for capitals.
Don't get me wrong, I would love shield slaves for my Vulture and other Ishukone ships, but then CCP would have to introduce 3200mm plates and XL shield extenders first, to level the playing field. (opening up a completely new can of worms for battleships balance). |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
602
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Posted - 2012.01.25 09:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
The easiest option is for CCP to simply change slaves to add 1% armour AND 1% shield.
Same deal with crystals; adjust to add armour rep bonus amount along with shield booster effectiveness.
Also, EVE is NOT a 'prizes for everyone' game, shield and armour slaves are in the game to give unfair advantages to rish people because thats the way EVE is. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.01.25 16:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Armor + slaves = shiny new invuls + overheating. From the EHP POV shield slaves are not necessary. Even more so since resist > raw hp. There is the issue of cap stability but OTOH you've got 6 implant slots to play with. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
54
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Posted - 2012.01.26 00:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Headerman wrote:The easiest option is for CCP to simply change slaves to add 1% armour AND 1% shield.
Same deal with crystals; adjust to add armour rep bonus amount along with shield booster effectiveness.
Also, EVE is NOT a 'prizes for everyone' game, shield and armour slaves are in the game to give unfair advantages to rish people because thats the way EVE is.
So you are saying make crystals and slaves mimic each other's bonus to active and passive tank?
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
791
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Posted - 2012.01.26 02:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Shure drop my cap use on shield boosters and their fitting requirement down to armor.
1-Armor rep is the hungriest PG/Cap/lowest cycle/amount rep of both repair systems.
2-I'd like my A-Type EANM costing over 1.5Billion to give my ship the same advantages your 400Milion CN Invul gives.
3-You have no clue what you're talking about or at this point you have some issues with english, or at least more than I do since I'm not english native.
Quote:I wouldn't call shield better, its just there applications are so different. The go to for spider tanking in all size category's is armor. The best one for solo repp'n is shield on big stuff armor on little stuff. Passive armor hurts larger ships less and ruins small ships speed, wile passive shield+MWD can ruin a cruiser and is highly dangerous on a battle ship if dreads and titans be about!! I still think its funny that the side that every one loves to passive has an active imp set well slaves is most often used for active rep'n cap fits.
1-spider tanking until capital size is better with shield for a lot of small differences you'll clearly not understand because you have no clue how freaking crap armor rep is.
2-capital size armor spider tanking is better? - well put nyx's rep Aeons who rep thany's...Etc etc all the boring capital stuff, but hey, that game play concerns such small part of eve players that it doesn't matter at this point first because they've ruined for longtime the game and second because it's still the case directly or indirectly (who need bots to make isk and buy capitals like candies?)
Quote:Guns get two damage mods missiles get one, your complaint is invalid, you should be asking for a drone damage mod or some thing else. Also armor gets better resist that are different based on race, shields get the same all the time.
1st flash news: you can carry more than one type of ammo dmg in your cargohold
2nd flash news you can load different ammo dmg type in different launchers, can you hit more than F1? -like F2:F3 etc?
Couldn't answer better sry, I'm not English native that I've already got an headache trying to understand what you wrote...make an effort and use google translator next time...
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Party Lips
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
7
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
implants should not be allowed to affect capital ships is my opinion. they have enough hp and uberness as is. pills are fine but not implants. pills can come with nasty side effects the implants do not. |
JunkRaider
JunkRaider Corp
12
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:No one denies one's right to grind for a huge pile of crap called titans and then watch them like last penny, but the thing is: their use should be restricted to sov warfare only: No warp drive Travelling via tech2 cyno only. That cyno can be deployed only at the vicinity of POS or stations. No portaling beyond vicinity of POS'es or stations Problem solved. Either that, or make them balanced with regular means. No EW-immunity Sane EHP Portaling works with proper restrictions (like spool-up etc.)
Bull ****. |
JunkRaider
JunkRaider Corp
12
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Shure drop my cap use on shield boosters and their fitting requirement down to armor. 1-Armor rep is the hungriest PG/Cap/lowest cycle/amount rep of both repair systems. 2-I'd like my A-Type EANM costing over 1.5Billion to give my ship the same advantages your 400Milion CN Invul gives.
How much cap does your EANM require per cycle? what are the fitting requirements like? STFU!!
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Flaming Head
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 13:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
Unless the sets had some kind of negative bonus also to balance the extra shield, these implants would make an already ridiculously powerful tanking flavour even more powerful (*cough* drake). |
Korg Tronix
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
40
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Posted - 2012.01.26 14:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
JunkRaider wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Shure drop my cap use on shield boosters and their fitting requirement down to armor. 1-Armor rep is the hungriest PG/Cap/lowest cycle/amount rep of both repair systems. 2-I'd like my A-Type EANM costing over 1.5Billion to give my ship the same advantages your 400Milion CN Invul gives. How much cap does your EANM require per cycle? what are the fitting requirements like? STFU!!
Not sure you thought that through properly but the CN invul uses less CPU than an A-type EANM, and I hope the cap use would affect a cap ship competed to other mods it will have fitted Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams] http://themabinogion.blogspot.com/ |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
99
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Posted - 2012.01.26 15:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
The thing for me still is that it would be good to have an active and passive tank set for both armor and shield. Should they be clones of each other(slave and "shield slave" both do the same % and to there respective HP) probably not. But that doesn't meant that they shouldn't make a passive set for shield and an active set for armor. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
55
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Posted - 2012.01.27 00:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
bump Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
38
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Posted - 2012.01.27 00:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Wait - cause I am confused... In a nutshell, the active tanked blaster boats (read Brutix hull line and Hyperion) will need similar treatment (read investment) as a pimped shield Super.
Makes sense. I can sleep through the cold SoCal nights now... "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell |
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
38
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Posted - 2012.01.27 00:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:The thing for me still is that it would be good to have an active and passive tank set for both armor and shield. Should they be clones of each other(slave and "shield slave" both do the same % and to there respective HP) probably not. But that doesn't meant that they shouldn't make a passive set for shield and an active set for armor.
Ehm, how can you clone one to the other? Unless you are proposing a slave set that boosts both RAW armor HP and introduces armor recharge... Or is it that we will remove shield recharge all-together, so you will need a shield booster to replenish shields all the times (or pay @ a station)?
Take your can of worms back...maybe the "obvious" you are after was not in there the first place.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell |
Katherine Starlight
Apex Tech Xenogenesis Alliance
5
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Posted - 2012.01.27 00:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
there are two aspects from this, one from shield only people, one from balancing point of view. Armor tank is weak compared to shield passive tanked, no natural regen, cripples DPS etc, so their set boosts the amount of armor. Shield tank is weaker active tanked than active armor, So their set boosts the active shield tanks.
Now if you even dare to suggest this implant set for shield do the opposite set for armor aswell, a set that boosts active armor tanks. Shield is already OP compared to armor in many many ways and applications. Whereas armor have some stronger points than shield But it totally cripples lowslots. |
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
101
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Posted - 2012.01.27 10:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Well how about a pasive resist set for shields? How about a cycle time redux set for armour?
As shields have a harder time getting their resist up and armour has a delay in the effect of reppers. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
McRoll
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
29
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shield slaves is a terrible idea because:
- It takes away some of the uniqueness between 2 tanking styles. Crystals are the substitute for slaves.
- Shield tanking, especially shield buffer tanking is very widely used across all types of ships and races. Increasing shield HP would mean that everybody and their mother would be flying shield only. There is already an imbalance in numbers heavily weighted towards shields.
- I would like to remain competitive without putting 2 bil into my brain. When I fly shield buffer tanking ships I know that there isn't an implant set that improves that and I'm totally fine with it because I'm on equal terms against another shield buffer tanked player. Active shield and armor buffer tanking isn't as heavily used as shield buffer tanking so having improvement options there is justified.
- Shield slaves would create an unwanted synergy effect because increasing shield hp also increases shield regen as well. Ships like Drake or Rattlesnake would scale extraordinarly with that and it would put them above the top. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
793
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Posted - 2012.01.27 16:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
McRoll wrote:Shield slaves is a terrible idea because:
- It takes away some of the uniqueness between 2 tanking styles. Crystals are the substitute for slaves.
- Shield tanking, especially shield buffer tanking is very widely used across all types of ships and races. Increasing shield HP would mean that everybody and their mother would be flying shield only. There is already an imbalance in numbers heavily weighted towards shields.
- I would like to remain competitive without putting 2 bil into my brain. When I fly shield buffer tanking ships I know that there isn't an implant set that improves that and I'm totally fine with it because I'm on equal terms against another shield buffer tanked player. Active shield and armor buffer tanking isn't as heavily used as shield buffer tanking so having improvement options there is justified.
- Shield slaves would create an unwanted synergy effect because increasing shield hp also increases shield regen as well. Ships like Drake or Rattlesnake would scale extraordinarly with that and it would put them above the top.
Without any sort of booster of implant a properly passive regen fitted Rattlesnake can already tank over 1600dps.
Anyway same old rabble about shields/armour when obviously those asking for this have no clue about the game, about armor/shield tanking diffferences or ever tested and are just looking for another pownmobile.
Silly rabbits are silly. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
793
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Posted - 2012.01.27 16:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Well how about a pasive resist set for shields?
You already have mods for this, you already have +% regen shields implants too
Quote:How about a cycle time redux set for armour?
Cap out even faster? Do you really understand something about armour tanking? -you clearly don't.
Quote:As shields have a harder time getting their resist up and armour has a delay in the effect of reppers.
Another false statement. Maybe you should train your shield resists ?
Buying capital characters on toons bazaar is awesome when you know what they're for and what to do with them, but very bad to show as example of your uberness understanding of shields/armor stuff, clearly isn't.
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Katalci
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
19
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Posted - 2012.01.30 06:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
Balance does not mean make everything the same. If the problem is shield supers, then it's the base shield HP that needs to be fixed, not implants. Don't make shield-slaves, don't make armor-crystals, and dear lord don't have a passive armor recharge. |
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
77
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Posted - 2012.04.11 23:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
What is up with this topic?
No discussion at fanfest.
No Devblog
No Nothing.
Has the plans been scraped? Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Lili Lu
198
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Posted - 2012.04.12 00:34:00 -
[57] - Quote
Because you thinking there were ever any "plans" is incorrect. It was mentioned that they would examine the issue. That is a far cry from "plans"
The tanking is different and will probably remain that way. Increasing shield hp through a new impalnt set has all sorts of imbalancing potential. Maybe why you are not getting what you want.
Now talking about both crystals and slaves having no effect on capital sized ships is a valid change to the tanking paradigms in the game. Better to focus on that than wishing to have a "slaved" shield supercap that has ridiculous regen on top of that.
edit- In rereading my post here I can see it being interpreted as snark. It's not meant that way. |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2012.04.12 00:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
I think its good to keep the differences between the tanking options. The only change I would think necessary would be for the crystals to work on capital ships. With a slave set, you get bonuses across the board. Crystals have no effect on capital ships. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
170
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Posted - 2012.04.12 06:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
crystals on caps is to spooky. I now feel after shooting more armour caps for E V E R that they should just make slave like cryristals and not work on caps. THEN make cap centric imp set, like the goofy one they gave us 2 free ones of.make it give bumps to lots of stuff. Why because little bumps to lots of stuff works well with capital sized numbers and not so much on friggs and crusiers.
P.S. ohhhhh ggggggguuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddddddddd pppppppppppppppppppppllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz nnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooo mmmmmmmmmoooooooooooorrrrrrrrre HP! I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |
Wyte Ragnarok
22
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Posted - 2012.04.12 08:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Katherine Starlight wrote:Shield is already OP compared to armor in many many ways and applications.
That's why there are so many Caldari capital ships roaming around null sec, compared to the so few Amarr and Gallente ones
Tanya Powers wrote:Another false statement. Maybe you should train your shield resists ?
Do you know how the armour compensation skills work? Apparently not.
I know I'm quoting old posts, but someone bumped this thread, so I had to. Also, about the implant set, it was mentioned once upon a time but there hasn't been any mention of it since. If there was a Shield HP Omega set, then it'd have to be inferior to Slaves IMO.
Lili Lu wrote:Now talking about both crystals and slaves having no effect on capital sized ships is a valid change to the tanking paradigms in the game. Better to focus on that than wishing to have a "slaved" shield supercap that has ridiculous regen on top of that.
Yes, but that won't happen. Think how many people have bought Slaves specifically for their capital ships. It'd have a massive impact, you'd have no luck taking the Slave effect away from people. A lot of people in this thread seem to be thinking of sub caps too much. I think the initial reason for the proposed implant was to buff shield caps to actually be on par with armour caps. Ho hum. |
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