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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.18 18:59:00 -
[331]
I have received a couple of responses from the Lead GM. We are now proceeding in the correct direction. It is now a matter of how much of the mess they will clean up, and how much will remain to affect on going operations.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.18 23:27:00 -
[332]
Edited by: Matalino on 18/01/2008 23:27:51 In talking with the Lead GM, we have reached an agreement to resolve this issue. While no resolution could ever be perfect given the complexity of the resulting effects, this solution is completely satasfactory, as such I will leave it at that.
When I get home from work I will be verifying that everything has been set in order on their end as agreed to.
It will then take me a couple of weeks to finish setting everything back in order on my end and lay plans to deal with the declining market.
In all I do believe that following CCP's policies has helped to lead to a favorable resolution, and given time the obsurdity of earlier responses was found to have a reasonable explaination.
There is no company in any industry that has perfect customer service, but the tell sign of good customer service is that they will explain and fix their mistakes. I can say at the end of this that CCP has done both.
There is still a hard fight ahead of me to deal with the declining market, but I will not be holding CCP accountable for any further handy cap in dealing with it.
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Bouncer Ricdic
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Posted - 2008.01.18 23:37:00 -
[333]
Good Job, now jump on MSN and tell me all about it
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Lieutenant Obvious
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.19 00:14:00 -
[334]
Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy?
I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.19 00:46:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy?
I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue.
Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that.
There were specific circumstances that would justify CCP handling the way the bug affected me different from how it might have affected others.
The "wrong" way that they were handling the bug in my case, wouldn't have been wrong if they had not previously setup the expectation to handle it a different way.
If you were affected by this bug you would know it. There was nothing subtle about it. You really couldn't miss it.
If you think that you had this bug that affected your characters, but were never told that it it should have been fixed a different way, then it was fixed correctly for your situation.
I am not going to publish the details as CCP's policy is there, at least in part, as there are many other reasons, is to prevent people from making up stories so that they can jump on the me-too bandwagon.
Ultimately, the eariler misunderstanding with the Senior GM, and his assertion that changes were never made, was traced back to a documentation error made by their development team. Once shown how the history of the change was documented in the data dumps, they were able to trace back to that error. As soon as they confirmed that the dispute started with a mistake on their end, CCP was completely co-operative in looking for a solution, and is therefore consistant with quality customer service.
For those concerned with the nature of this change, there is no need, it is in complete harmony with the established pattern for this game mechanic. The change itself was not suprising, only the way it was carried out.
If the GM handling this issue wants to make it public, then he is welcome to do so, but I will not press the issue. I had refered him to this thread when he inquired as to why I had so many accounts, so he might be reading it.
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Lieutenant Obvious
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.19 01:19:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy?
I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue.
Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that.
Hang on, which policy is that exactly? I understand not posting GM related convos, but is there also a policy that states "users must not share information regarding bugs they have found"? It's not like it's an exploitative bug.
Quote:
Ultimately, the eariler misunderstanding with the Senior GM, and his assertion that changes were never made, was traced back to a documentation error made by their development team.
I get those "our logs show nothing" responses all the time also.
Sorry for the side-track, but I'm curious.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2008.01.19 03:23:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy?
I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue.
Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that.
Hang on, which policy is that exactly? I understand not posting GM related convos, but is there also a policy that states "users must not share information regarding bugs they have found"? It's not like it's an exploitative bug.
I concur. You're sitting on at least a quarter of a billion isk that I directed your way, and you've spent the last month blueballing us over this super-secret bug. You can't post GM communications, but you can sure as hell tell us what was not working properly.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.19 03:48:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Matalino on 19/01/2008 03:51:35 I want to check with Ricdic and CCP before I reveal more than I already have.
Discussing what was broken very quickly progresses to discussion of what was done to fix it and from there to why didn't CCP fix mine that way to and it just goes on and on. It also goes into way wasn't this fixed the first time, what exactly did the GM's say about it etc.
Minimally I want to talk to Ricdic.
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Raskor
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Posted - 2008.01.19 04:41:00 -
[339]
Are you planning to create more accounts? If so, do you have an understanding with the GM's that if and when this occurs again, they will quickly do whatever they did to fix it again?
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.01.19 04:50:00 -
[340]
Spoke to Matalino. He will give a brief summary on what occured after he gets his beauty sleep (check out that avatar, he needs it)
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.19 05:09:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Raskor Are you planning to create more accounts? If so, do you have an understanding with the GM's that if and when this occurs again, they will quickly do whatever they did to fix it again?
Before I go to bed I can quickly answer these two questions.
1.) I have no intention of creating more accounts.
2.) There is no way that this issue can occur again. It was fixed with Trinity and that is the end of it. Had there not been a documentation issue, and the correct information communicated to GM's and customers this would not have been even the slightest issue.
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Finedele
Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.19 13:59:00 -
[342]
i think you should reveal some more else then "oh when you have teh bug, you'll see" which you did until now. its because people are curious and want to know all the things they don't really need to know. you kept teasing, time to show off what you have ;)
anyway, good to hear that everything came to an good end! thx for your efford in this case
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Bouncer Ricdic
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Posted - 2008.01.19 14:30:00 -
[343]
It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2008.01.19 15:18:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Bouncer Ricdic It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too
As I have been reminded more than once, the most important part of an IPO is communication. I also tried to say, "But the large investors haven't complained!" and was shot down. BoD or no, everyone deserves an explanation of what happened. Furthermore, there is absolutely no rule preventing you from telling us what the GM's have done, only from copying and pasting the correspondence directly. Please stop rolling out that old canard.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.19 17:19:00 -
[345]
While their may not be a specific rule that prevents me from disclosing everything, there is my implied promise.
Good IPO managment is a combination of open communication AND integrity.
This whole issue is built upon implied promises made by GM's.
In looking for a resolution, I made the implied promise that I would not disclose the details if the resolution was completely satasfactory.
So far, I have been given everything I have asked for to resolve this issue, so I feel bound to that promise.
I gave an open invitation for investors to state that they would prefer disclosure at the cost of resolution, but there were none who stepped forward to take that offer.
We can hardly expect CCP to honor their promises if we do not honor ours.
I am still in commumication with the Lead GM. There are still details which have not been completed.
Unlike with frontline or senior GM's, the response time with a Lead GM is impressively fast. We exchanged notes about 4 times yesterday. If he is working today, I expect to hear from him, however, as a Lead GM he might have a traditional Mon-Fri schedule so I might not hear back until Monday.
I will ask him if he believed that non-disclosure was part of my obligation in this matter, and how much of this issue could be disclosed.
Until he responds, I will not be publishing any more specific details.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.19 18:07:00 -
[346]
My questions:
A.) Why would disclosure of the bug itself prevent resolution.
B.) Why would disclosing the bug compromise your communications with the developers and expose their incompetence?
C.) Why does it matter anyway? You've spent the last couple weeks telling us how incompetently this case has been handled along the entire way by the support staff. We KNOW this already. All we don't know is the specifics of the bug. Best I can tell the bug is not an exploit and only serves to hurt you.
I agree with MP here. Unless there is some special Candlejack clause here whereby invoking the name of the bug it comes to your house and kills you, I'd like to know what it was. I could also understand if telling us the bug disclosed secret parts of your business plan, but you haven't stated this.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.19 18:09:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Bouncer Ricdic It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too
Also agree with MP here. I shouldn't, as an investor, have to go begging for information on a PUBLIC company. Especially one such as this that is still planning on issuing more shares. I shouldn't have to be on the board of directors to learn why there was an may still be a significant chance that I'll have to write off 2/3 of my investment.
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Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.19 20:50:00 -
[348]
Giving out too many details makes you target, by investing in him you have decided that he is the right person to run it. He has stated there is a problem, openly discussed it with a respected independant party who has confirmed both the existence and steps are being taken with the bug. You knowing from him spilling the beans is ultimatly pointless, if the GM remembers this and improves working relations between Mal and the GM team by not ratting him out then so much the better. If you know, you can do nothing, but if you don't then Mal may have gained some favor and allowing the continuation of the project. If it hadn't been fixed then he would have said what it was, but it is being fixed so no problem.
~Nyron
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.01.19 22:31:00 -
[349]
I think it depends.
If everything gets resolved and it doesn't have an impact on the profits, then there's no need to discuss the issue and people will just have to deal with their own curiousity.
If it has effected profits negatively even after the resolution then we do deserve to know the why and hows I believe. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets. |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 00:17:00 -
[350]
I will not comment further on the bug at this time.
The bottom line is that I gave assurance that I would not disclose those details if the problem was resolved.
The problem has been resolved, and I honor my promises.
Unless the GM releases me from that promise, I will say nothing more.
The lack of response today would seem to indicate that this GM works Mon-Fri.
You have waited this long, a couple of days won't make any more of a difference: wait and see what he has to say on Monday.
If disclosure of this issue is as insignificant as you say it is, then you can expect the GM to release me from my previous commitment.
However, if the GM wishes to have these details remain confidencial, then I will honor that request. In that case, about all there is to say, is that we would be receiving a better deal than we otherwise would have had I been more public about the mistakes that were made.
While making statements about their incompetence, I also qualified it with the fact that I did not have the full context to assert that claim. Now that the details are known, I can say that it was a small error that snowballed into something larger.
Being in the middle of the problem, things looked much worse than at either end.
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Rasta Farian
Rasta Tropical Club
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:07:00 -
[351]
I am curious to see what the issue is/was. But what i really would like to know is:
After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino?
Would you still launch this IPO if time went back?
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:12:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino?
Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises.
Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's.
But not to worry, I have some fun goals over the next couple of months that will help DATAC and provide some fun for me. Originally by: Rasta Farian Would you still launch this IPO if time went back?
Probably not. Too much commitment. Games are much more fun when you can just walk a way when you need a break.
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Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:41:00 -
[353]
I understand where you're coming from and if that's your wish I'm not going to make a big deal. I guess moreso I just don't understand why you'd even make a promise like that. Do the GMs even care? It's a bug in the game. This kind of stuff is discussed on the forums all the time. Do the devs get hurt feelings when bugs in their game are disclosed on these forums? I doubt.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 01:44:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Matalino on 20/01/2008 01:45:02
Originally by: Benvie I understand where you're coming from and if that's your wish I'm not going to make a big deal. I guess moreso I just don't understand why you'd even make a promise like that. Do the GMs even care? It's a bug in the game. This kind of stuff is discussed on the forums all the time. Do the devs get hurt feelings when bugs in their game are disclosed on these forums? I doubt.
If you're right then you will have all of the details on Monday.
If not, then we will know that they do actually care, and the promise was worth something.
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Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 02:24:00 -
[355]
Thanks for your work Mat - right now my only concern is my investment in this IPO - is it back on track and will I make a profit?
Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.20 03:17:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Astorothe Thanks for your work Mat - right now my only concern is my investment in this IPO - is it back on track and will I make a profit?
Their are still a couple of things for the GM to finish off at his end.
Once that is done, I will need about two weeks to tie things off at my end, before I can update my projections accurately.
Right now, I estimate that we are riding on the line of being able to meet the original target returns.
The DC market crashed hard in December, but so far for January the market has been declining more slowly.
I am working on plans to form an improved safety net to help carry through even if the market continues to collapse.
Some return will certainly happen, it is just a question of how much.
On the upside, the GTC market has improved conciderably. I am guessing that is because there are plenty of new toys to buy.
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Kitex
Blacktag Test Labs
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Posted - 2008.01.20 06:00:00 -
[357]
I haven't played EVE for a month, or I'd probably convo you directly for some info. Since I still feel like "meh" everytime I go to login, I'll just ask a general question here.
I don't care about the bug details. I'm just curious what the bottom line is on the potential loss of ROI due to the bug? Have we lost any money as a result? If so, I'd definitely agree that more information ought to be forthcoming. If not, end of story in my opinion. Who cares?
I know things are rough due to market declines... don't let that get you down Mat. It's not like you didn't make that possibility clear upfront. Still think you're doing a great job.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.01.20 07:03:00 -
[358]
I think a little time was lost but based on the resolution ccp provided I don's see it being a problem with regards to the operation. The real focal point atm should be the prices on datacores.
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Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2008.01.21 14:47:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino?
Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises.
Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's.
So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you?
Spectacular.
You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.21 14:56:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet [You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as.
MP
You know MP the same could be said about you and your refusal to discuss in public anything about why certain ventures you run havent paid any dividends for a long time. --
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