Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 06:37:00 -
[31]
Anyone got a list of the popular mission hubs?
Then it could be narrowed down by general location, number of factories and other factors. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 07:33:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Shadarle on 07/10/2007 07:33:42 You do realize that by picking a mission hub you'll be inheriting a ton of lag as well, right?
Best bet is to find a system that is fairly close to a lot of mission hubs and closer to most of them than Jita. Then advertise about it in those hubs once the place is well stocked.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Estate
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 08:24:00 -
[33]
1-2 jumps out from a mission hub might work, but it never hurts to play to the lowest factor (simple-minded players). A large portion of EVE isn't even aware of this forum and this discussion nor do they care. A large subset of that group are casual players who do missions, farm, are nubs, etc. While these people have various degrees of activity, intelligence, and motivation, the easier it is for large numbers of people to dump goods in a single location, the better. The farther away from a mission hub we try to make this thing, the more personal effort and initial cost to traders will have to go into making it work.
My opinion: let the simple-minded masses do the work for us. Lag is unavoidable, after all, a trading hub -needs- lots of people to both buy and sell, no?
|
Palava
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 09:43:00 -
[34]
I (my main) still has to learn very much about EvE, but I always try to learn, to adapt and to find new ways of getting something done. And I like the market discussions forum, many people with deep insight in the one thing that keeps the eve-universe alive: business ;) (enough introduction for now, back to topic)
For the mission-hub thing: As far as I know, that is how Jita was created? But wouldn't that mean we will create just another Jita? If we want something different, we will have to build on a different ground.
What do the market veterans think of a major trade hub for south-eastern empire, with good links to southern 0.0 space and the drone regions?
And for getting it running: advertises. everywhere. get it known in the noob corps, in the local of mission hubs, tell your friends in big alliances. just write "theres a new trade hub in ***, fly there and try it. its great!"
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 10:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: SencneS
1) A lot of Moons. 2) Must be sec status 0.5, 0.6, or 0.7 3) Must have ICE Belts 4) Must be within 10 jumps of a trade hub.
Bonuses are - Has Factors, has labs, has a corporation that I have a high enough standing with free reprocessing or very close to free etc.
Your system sounds quite good altho for new trade hub it would need to be easily acsessible and roughly equal distance from all four empires. For example from top of my head both Vattuolen and Hentogaira fulfill those 4 points but neither can be considered really trade hub. Hentogaira has low sec system next door and is well .. it's not central Forge, from some cornes of the market you need 20+ jumps to reach it. Neither of them has lab's also. Vattuolen - well perhaps a bit better, the best lev 3 agent in Forge region in it and all that but still relatively low population. Again a bit too far from some corners of the market.
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 17:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 07/10/2007 07:33:42 You do realize that by picking a mission hub you'll be inheriting a ton of lag as well, right?
Best bet is to find a system that is fairly close to a lot of mission hubs and closer to most of them than Jita. Then advertise about it in those hubs once the place is well stocked.
yea it needs to be a system that cant turn into another jita though it will be a great location system that many big names routinely stock and advertise thus creating supply and demand from nothing
i like this idea but a few things shave to be mentioned sacrifices must be made - you will need to put up a lot of buy and sell orders before you get enough people wanting to go there thus a lot of your isk will be idle for some time but it is a necessary evil
someone needs to make this their home or setup some alliance research POS nearby thus creating a reason for people to be there that is entirely in our control
i can not stress how important the convenience of the location is - it would be a good idea if it is not in the same region as jita of course many billions will need to be invested and a lot of time for advertising and possibly
a well moderated public channel where it would in essence be a clone of local but people would be able to be in it while anywhere in eve - this would help settle it as a contract hub and allow people to price check without flying there or using alts
not sure how office fees work and what affects them but i suppose it would have to be a system with a lot of stations to allow for people to setup their operations there without high office prices ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 18:35:00 -
[37]
Sadly, the original "Jita" was Yulai. Even bigger clump of trading and traffic, relatively, than Jita is now. And the solution, make Yulai a wasteland and create Jita.
Even other regional markets, as heavily trafficked as they are, do not compare to Jita (Yulai II). Sadly Jita will exist in one form or another. And that may explain why CCP doesn't just sabotage the solar system. (I.e. shut down the markets and watch the market scatter to new places.)
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 19:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Sadly, the original "Jita" was Yulai. Even bigger clump of trading and traffic, relatively, than Jita is now. And the solution, make Yulai a wasteland and create Jita.
Even other regional markets, as heavily trafficked as they are, do not compare to Jita (Yulai II). Sadly Jita will exist in one form or another. And that may explain why CCP doesn't just sabotage the solar system. (I.e. shut down the markets and watch the market scatter to new places.)
The intentional guiding hands of experienced traders will help create a new one though. I think its totally feasible. Personally I think we would be giving the Devs a hand if we could move some population out of jita by providing another good trading hub.
If you trade it, they will come. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 19:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dr Slurm The intentional guiding hands of experienced traders will help create a new one though. I think its totally feasible. Personally I think we would be giving the Devs a hand if we could move some population out of jita by providing another good trading hub.
Well I wish you luck. My only rebellion against Jita is against 4-4 CNAP. I use other stations for the selling of the few wares I need Jita's market for and I dread having to make any purchases at that station. I'll happily pay a mark up to not buy at that station but I don't always have that choice. Alternately, people who don't sell in Jita seems to think that there should be a 50%+ markup on items. Of course this just makes me think, "Hmmmm... helluva delivery surcharge." Mind you I see Jita's strongest point as something of a flea market/bulk distributor. Many of the "sundry" items (modules, ships, ammo, materials) can be found in some volume every where. However it is either the unique items or the bulk items (I.e. Components, etc.) that you can not find anywhere else. It's a simple fact of life that Jita exists. Can't change the fact of it, the inevitable creation of it. You can only rail at it, rebel against it to some degree, and be satisfied with that much. It's like the tide. You can splash your fair amount of water in the opposite direction, splash your to your heart's content, but even if you got 1 million people to help you... tide is still going out.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 21:03:00 -
[40]
Edited by: SonOfAGhost on 07/10/2007 21:05:14
Originally by: Palava
What do the market veterans think of a major trade hub for south-eastern empire, with good links to southern 0.0 space and the drone regions?
edit: oh, I just realised this hub would be Rens.
Actually for the purposes of the OP I think it WAS Rens but (of existing hubs at least) Hek would now be the better choice.
CCP nerfed the quality of Rens agents and removed the direct jumps to Ryddinjorn (Metropolis) and Hulm (2 of the Minmatar starter systems, the former a regional jump too).
Hek on the other hand, while still smaller than Rens, has benefited significantly from the Rens nerfing, and continues to grow on it's own. Surrounded by research agents. Close to the old Minmatar hub area of Pator/Lustrevik/Eystur where there is still lots of manufacturing/mineral trades. In Metropolis (highest Minmatar system count), 1 jump from Heimatar, 4 jumps from Molden Heath and Sinq Laison. Already on the route from 0.0 to Rens. Not much further now from the 2 starter systems Rens used to be adjacent to, and closer to the third (main) one, Ammold.
Full disclosure: I currently trade in both Rens and Hek (among other places) and would expect my profits to be reduced by either of them rising to more galactic significance. What's good for Eve is of greater importance than what's good for me however. Besides, I'll still be gouging customers in other locations
Who needs the Nikkei when there's EBay? Lag? GTFOOJ! |
|
Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 23:04:00 -
[41]
Soo, get together a bunch of industrialists and traders, and stock a specific system out with every single item ingame, you mean?
Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
I don't think locations that big an issue really, personally I'd take a system with good access that has as many factories as is possible. Be very interested if you attempted it.
|
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 23:13:00 -
[42]
Hek also has access to both heimatar (2 jumps) and sing liason (2 jumps). Seems to be pretty high mineral traffic there also. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 23:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Menkaure Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.07 23:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Menkaure Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
What exactly is wrong with people buying all the stuff up? Oh yea that's kind of the point right? <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Mother Clanger
M. Corp M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 00:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Menkaure Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
I would pay a slight premium to know I could go to a system on a Sunday, find everything I need for a battleship/hac/dictor etc. and not have to waste half my time in fighting lag. That to me should be the point of this hub.
|
Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 01:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dr Slurm
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Menkaure Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
What exactly is wrong with people buying all the stuff up? Oh yea that's kind of the point right?
Not people, just a few traders shipping stuff out to Jita would balls the idea up. You bring in a load of T2 guns or ships or something, underprice it to attract people.... someone else buys it all up and ships it back out again. Although you're still making a profit, it would soon dry up the market and make the entire idea (a viable competitor to Jita) come to an abrupt end. You want people to know that - like Jita, you can get everything you need in this system at any time.
Alot of people will still pay overpriced for a non-laggy access. Just see above.
|
Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 01:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Menkaure Not people, just a few traders
(haha, Traders are people too! Seriously!)
|
Kitex
Blacktag Test Labs
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 03:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shadarle That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
I don't see any need to under-price at all. Location is everything.
I, for example, have my empire HQ 18 jumps from Jita. I can't stand making the trip, but if I want to completely outfit a given ship in a single station, I rarely have a choice. Price is a consideration, but I'd definitely pay Jita+25% at a hub half the distance away, provided I was confident that everything I might need would be stocked.
It's probably all academic anyway. It would require enough people to build that competition would certainly develop, resulting in goods both under and overpriced, without any real level of control. My personal inclination would be to overprice slightly.
Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery! |
GenderBender
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 03:16:00 -
[49]
I may have missed something, but if another system effectively becomes the "New Jita" (as Jita became the "New Yulai"), won't everyone just congregate there? In turn, wouldn't we end up with worse lag in that particular system because it doesn't have it's own dedicated node?
|
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 03:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: GenderBender I may have missed something, but if another system effectively becomes the "New Jita" (as Jita became the "New Yulai"), won't everyone just congregate there? In turn, wouldn't we end up with worse lag in that particular system because it doesn't have it's own dedicated node?
The idea is not to replace jita but provide a competitive alternative. As long as the industrialists and traders can keep up with demand in the new hub I don't see it being a problem if someone comes in and cleans out a mineral or other commodity. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
|
Pang Grohl
Gallente Sudo Corp
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 06:12:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Menkaure Would probably work if the system was advertised - everything would probably need to be overpriced, to reduce outflow of stuff by enterprising traders, so it'd lose viability to consumer.
That's a good point, didn't think about that. If you under-price stuff people will jsut buy it all up. If you over-price stuff no one will come. If you price it the same as Jita then why not just go to Jita.
If everything is the same, except the population, why go to Jita? The only reason to go to Jita is the reasonable expectation the you can get almost everything there. If there's a closer place that meets that expectation, going to Jita is an exercise in frustration. I make sales on convenience more than price by this same philosophy.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Estate
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 07:36:00 -
[52]
I think this thread is making progress with the various ideas and points being made. So Hek is an already growing hub that might be able to serve this purpose. Great. But is it the best choice?
As for "why not just go to Jita", as long as this hub is closer to 50% of empire than Jita, and we price things reasonably close to Jita prices, then we end up with two markets splitting empire's customer base instead of just one super market. With pricing, we could price a little low, but just price the same or a little more than Jita. If this market is closer to 50% of empire than Jita, people will use it. Also, keeping prices about the same as Jita, even a tiny bit lower, prevents the idea of non-involved traders taking everything to Jita and profiting on our goods since the difference will be small enough to be useless.
|
Luke Lor'aul
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 11:19:00 -
[53]
What about a .5 or .4 Jita? A Jita connected to a large Lowsec pipeline, where its in high or lowsec, would be very beneficial to players like me, who have a little lower sec status who can't go into Jita or Rens. I think the profits on a lowsec or close to lowsec Jita would be tremendous.
|
Kasumi Kreig
Caldari United Systems Navy Infinite Innovation
|
Posted - 2007.10.08 11:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Luke Lor'aul What about a .5 or .4 Jita? A Jita connected to a large Lowsec pipeline, where its in high or lowsec, would be very beneficial to players like me, who have a little lower sec status who can't go into Jita or Rens. I think the profits on a lowsec or close to lowsec Jita would be tremendous.
Hek is 0.5 and has a factory.
|
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 00:41:00 -
[55]
I'm pretty sure this would never work out in a 0.4 security system. It wouldn't attract enough of the right business.
I have to admit I'm partial to Hek because I already trade there. That and it has access to heimatar and sing liason easily. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 01:07:00 -
[56]
Tash-murkon prime.
My favorit shopeing place, item not in stock in tash? go to amarr 2 jumps over or pengrima 4 jumps over
|
Amicus Pauperi
ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 03:40:00 -
[57]
I think this is a wonderful idea and I'd be willing to help out with the venture. Jita's lag is one thing, but the fact that it can influence all of empire makes me despise the place. Good if you're rich enough to swing the markets to and fro. Horrible if you're anyone else. And ideally, competition is good for the customer, right?
I'm understanding this to be an attempt to create another large self-sustaining hub. In order to do so, we should analyze the reason Jita rose to prominence over thousands of other systems and see if another place has those same conditions. There's many aphorisms regarding the siting of a business. Location, location, location. Build it and they will come. Truths boiled down which should be well heeded.
I'll first analyze this from a demand perspective. Customers shop at Jita for a variety of reasons. One stop shop for EVERYTHING. Great prices. Ability to find rare/non market items. Close to home. As traders, we can recreate the first 3 conditions. Placing the new hub "Close to home" is simply dependent upon finding where people live. This is information I presume only CCP has; we are left to speculate. I assume that the majority of consumers fall into 2 categories: Mission Runners and 0.0 Dwellers. Jita is only a handful of jumps away from the gigantic mission hub that is Motsu. Looking around the Eve map, the Gallente area around Dodixie is 2nd largest, followed by the Minmatar area around Pator. No Amarrian system seems to stand out for missioning. From my time in 0.0, I know that 0.0 Dwellers are willing to fly insane distances to get the things they need; perhaps siting this new hub close to the south would benefit those in that half of Eve. The reason I don't include industrialists is because they aren't tied down to any particular location. Miners go where the 'roids are, and they're everywhere. Manufacturers, traders, logistics go wherever there's money to be made. It seems only mission runners are tied down to a system.
Based on this analysis, the Dodixie area would be quite attractive for Missioners. For a 0.0 supply hub, the southern regions of Derelik (gateway to Curse/Providence) or Khanid (gateway to Catch/Querious) would be suitable. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any large mission regions with 0.0 access.
Secondly, we can analyze this from a supply perspective. As a trader/manufacturer, the things I notice about Jita is its sheer number of manufacturing slots. 300 in system. 500 more 1 jump away. And these are almost always running at full capacity. For a new hub to really be able to take off on its own, it must have manufacturing capacity. Demand for my items does me no good if I have nowhere to build them. Since I produce consumer goods, not only will I need manufacturing slots, but I'll also need supplies. This means minerals, salvage, and T2 Construction Components. Named mods only come from mission areas as well as salvage, so proximity to a mission hub would be beneficial. Research/Invention slots don't seem to make a difference since Jita's closest are 5 jumps away. T2 Industry largely occurs in 0.0/low sec, then gets hauled into empire.
Right now, the largest difference I can see between Jita and the other racial hubs is that Jita has T2 supplies. Raw, Processed, Advanced, Components, Datacores, Decryptors. Thus the further away from Jita the better. Dodixie is 15 jumps away; Rens is 25.
Looking at Rens, it is the Minmatar racial hub, 5 jumps from a large missioning area, and 2 jumps from Derelik, which I mentioned earlier. It has some manufacturing capacity. After looking at all this, perhaps Rens is the best place to create a new Jita-level hub. Rens is already well stocked and built up, and many people already know about it. The only thing it seems to lack is a T2 industry. Could the solution be so simple?
I leave you with this final quote - "The rewards in business go to the man who does something with an idea." Best of luck with this idea -AP Economic PvP - Cornering Jita 4-4 |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 04:03:00 -
[58]
Nice analysis.
I think I'm gonna take a look at the data dump and see if I can find a station/system that fits the criteria so far.
Namely good connections to other systems/regions and factory capacity. <sig>
Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig> |
Palava
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 09:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Palava on 09/10/2007 09:51:55 A very good read, Amicus. That somehow made me think of the law of high numbers (dunno how it is called really), from stochastics. If you test something with sufficiently enough tests, it will flatten out to a certain number or value, like an average.
And in a certain way phenomenons like Jita will only be recognizable with high enough numbers, but then at the same moment it is a natural phenomenon created by the environment of EvE, created by coincidental states (like the factory capabilities, near to mission hub etc.).
Perhaps the T2 good market is strong only in Jita because it has very limited numbers on the supplier side. We all know how complicated it is to set up the T2 chain, and so only the more dedicated or clever (no offense to the rest please!) are going into it. This less competetion leads to price fixing and monopolies or very small supply in other regions, where prices are noticable higher than Jita. If you want to move some T2 industries to the new hub, you will have to start with the very basics of T2 production. Just through trading and hauling you can't bootstrap it out of nowhere (unless you can abjure some profits) because anything in the new hub would still be costlier than Jita.
I hope my conclusions are correct, kind regards to everyone here
edit: Its a circle, like already often said, and especially true regarding the small T2 market: industrialists go to Jita because they are sure to find what they look for, and the suppliers sell there because they know their stuff sells. I have no solution how to break the circle of these loving two or how to redirect it to a new market. But I know it will take awhile...
|
Jin Steele
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2007.10.09 12:31:00 -
[60]
There is a much easier way that will be just as beneficial, but will take 10-20 billion in capital to start effectively probably.
The answer is simple. When you undock from the 4-4 station, there is between 100-200 people stuck there trying to warp. This is because the three most common gates (new caldari, sobaseki, perimeter) are all behind the station. If we move to the 4-5 caldari navy station (i think this is the right one), it faces the other way, therefore eliminating the massive amount of people stuck outside the station, and helping immensely with the lag.
If we could get enough people to start buying and selling there, it would allow more volume of trade and quicker turnover.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |