yea yea blah blah.

I have read it and no you dont know **** yet, atleast not from that convo.
Al i saw is some incusrions vets yapping true eachother and not really saying anyting usefull.
If you seriously think they know what they are on about .... well your a lost cause ...

Dont get me wrong i know them and do respect them, you too prolly since i dont know you but do i have an open mind.
But they are already living in low or null sec like yourself, so maby, just maby yall are out of touch with the persons that enter the game and are playing in high sec.

After doing the tutorials and run missions till you can dream them at lvl 4, people want something else.
So they go mining or run incursions, due to "omg you not shiney" whining that goes on in atleast btl, new channels where formed and stuff was sorted out. Now incursions are not for the 'new noob', let that be said, or they shouldnt be.
Imo incursions are for those that dont want to go low or null sec but like to play something more difficult then the same missions over and over again. Note that after a year of fcing incurions, i did assault, hq and moms they get as repetitive as missions.

So what needs to be changed if anything?
Well people that play a different branche of the game shouldnt be allowed to **** off this side of the game, just because they can.
As far as i know incursions where intended as a means to get groups of people working together and play together as randomly as possible and since they are both in low and highsec its for everyone in their respective area's.
Trying to get carebears to move to low or null, wont happen, trust me, it wont.
Sitewise, its an idea if the time invested to form a fleet in order to run a site is equally rewarded payout wise, that i think has been said more then once in this thread.
So besides all the good idea's beeing metioned here, having low/nullsec player disrupting the carebears way of doing things just because they can/ beeing pised about how carebears farm incursions/ or having different agenda's due to elections, is whole different set of tears then the obvious: "omg i killed your mom, now you cant farm bwahahaha....let me blue the wrecks while im at it to create so much lag you people will die too hahahah"...thats just grieving, sorry it is.
While you have your ass back in low or null wherever you tend to play, how about you farm them there and do the same as the bears do? Problem solved.
Also try to find your backbone again will ya? Going:" Well i really wanted to stop this but umm tdf walked away from the table so now i must go on", is as pathetic as a 3 year old whining on whatever they whine about

So when/if you actually can get serious about this and want to know about things that might need some chaging, find me, untill then you just the next troll as mentioned in that convo, been there done that more then once already, your not that special darius




Just my 2 cents on this matter

IGGVve tried to think through changes that would enhance gameplay, balance various mechanics, and make sense in respect to existing lore. As we have continued to make incursions the hot topic on the forums, I figure IGGVll cover that first.

IGGVve never been GG#intoGG% incursions. I was interested when they first came out, but never had a fleet of friends to run them and never wanted to play the GG#LFAFGG% pickup game. So my first real exposure to them was after I joined Skunkworks; that whole story is well documented and IGGVll spare you even a summary of how it started. Early on, I started trying to think of ways to fix the issue of highsec vanguard farming without breaking incursions.

It needs to be said that I do not object to incursions. IGGVm all for cooperative content. After all, I got my start playing cooperatively with some friends. Had incursions existed when we were actively playing together, we probably would have been involved in them as soon as we possibly could....

My first solution was obvious: reduce vanguard payments, and balance that change by increasing the payouts of the larger sites which require larger and more coordinated fleets. ItGGVs an obvious solution, and perhaps too simple. Taking it a step further, I suggested a lore-based solution: Concord would become frustrated with capsuleers farming incursions when they are being paid to stop the Sansha attacks. As a result, after a certain amount of time (or a certain amount of PvE activity), rewards for incursions would be reduced over a period of time to about 50%. It would then become more profitable to end the incursion so that a new one could spawn than to continue farming the same one.

Recently, I had this idea: have Sansha adapt their strategies. If Vanguard sites are being swarmed, reduce the number of vanguards and spawn more of the other sites. WhatGGVs more, they could react to the fleet composition of the defenders, fielding more e-war or more DPS depending on what kind of resistance they were facing. It makes sense that a force capable of overwhelming Concord would be clever enough to not press a failed strategy over and over again.

These three solutions are not exclusive; they can all work together. Rebalance payouts, create a steady decline in rewards in order to make a compelling reason to go after the mothership, and make the Sanshas smarter on a macro level. Do that and youGGVll have much more interesting and balanced PvE content without enraging most of the incursion community.

--> NMC - I'm sorry but no fleet should have to mine ore to complete a site.
...
True Creations Research Center needs to be removed or changed due to the simply fact you are REQUIRED to have a code breaker to complete the site.

Lowsec Incursions

We need more of them
There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.

...
- Revamp the reward system
Addresses: 1, 2, 8, 9, 10
Solution: ISK is the primary medium in which products in EVE are exchanged. It has a fairly standard exchange rate with products giving it an implied value. When an NPC spawns ISK as a reward, it gives those players the implied value of ISK. This would be fine if the amount of ISK matched the difficulty in which the task was completed. In the case of incursions, this is skewed which causes problems with the value of ISK. The counter to ISK is products, these products can be valued by players and will exchange them for ISK. Thus leaving the value of incursions up to the market. The amount a fleet is rewarded is also skewed in relation to the fleet size and time it takes to complete a site. The reward per hour is backwards and doesn't scale properly. Head Quarter fleets should receive the highest reward per hour, not Vanguards. The way to fix these problems are to change the primary payout to something other then ISK (LP, item drops, etc.) and then increase the payouts for Assaults and Headquarters. Thus fixing the imbalance of ISK and backwards growth as sites increase.
- Revamp the Sites/AI
Addresses: 2, 4, 5, 6
Solution: Every single site needs to be reviewed and modified as needed. There are several sites that should be either removed, or replaced, with a completely new one. The sites that are currently in play look like a sample tray on a menu. Sites need to play more into the lore of incursions giving players better insight and more/new objectives to complete. Similarly, site spawns need to have some variables within them, no site should have the same exact spawns every single time in the same order, nor should they be completely random. Have different types of waves spawn with different roles. These roles could be attack focused, defensive/avoid focused, ewar focused etc. This requires the fleet to pay attention and react based on whats in front of them, not just go through the motions like they are now. The site difficulty should scale within a fleet size, meaning there should be Hard/Harder/Hardest sites for each of the fleet sizes (Vanguards/Assaults/HQs). Right now fleets can be tailor made to run from site to site with ease, while more standard fleets struggle. Having certain sites that spawn for only the strongest fleets gives normal running fleets less issues finding sites.

continued in part 2

Why do high sec carebears go to low-, null-sec and WH? Because of the higher income despite the hifher risk! (ok null is actually safer than high-sec)
However, highsec incursion destroy the incentives to move out of high. I know many 0.0 dweller who go to hifg-sec to farm incursions and come only to pvp. This is ridiculous!
Solution:
Make incursons a low-sec only event (you can make it even more rewarding then). Furthermore, make sanshas within sites attack capsuleers with criminal flag first! So that it becomes difficult to gank inurson fleets within sites but still possible to catch people at the gates and so on.
+ gives an enormous and much desired boost to low sec
+ pirates get someone to play with
+ Carebears who want to have a higher income will have to learn to pvp or to hire mercs who would protect their farming op.
- bitter tears from some high sec carebears who think eve is WoW in space and that incursions are raids.
+ For CCP: You distinguish your product from all the 08/15 MMOs where you simply grind stuff all day long. Which means less competition.
+ for Factional Warfare: FW Alliances will (sometimes) compete with null-sec gangs who will certainly try to farm low-sec incursions.
+ FW alliances will get additional inflow of members who want to run incursions but lack a proper organisational structure
And before people start to cry. For some reason people were happy to farm WHs even though it is quite risky.
P.S: It would actually solve many problems in this game.

...It was publicly stated by the designers that incursions are meant to last about a week. ...

... (CCP) You already know that incursions add no more isk to the economy than any other form of PVE, especially since the LP added is an isk sink. You shared the data at the summit that inflation is not a problem right now at all. The whining "they pay too much" butthurt trolls are wrong, and you know it, though that's 99% of what this thread is going to be. Pay is fine. The players organize themselves, share standings lists, and have worked out a lot of that "emergent gameplay" you people like to brag about so much. Fix the problems and the complexity of the emergent gameplay will increase. Listen to the butthurt trolls, and incursions will die, and you'll lose all those subscriptions who refuse to go back to lame missioning or ratting after having done incursions.

I love most of the ideas you have put into this. It is very well put together and sums up a majority of the problems currently faced by incursion runners. I only have a few issues with the ideas you have to fix the issue.
1: Adding Item Drops to incursions. The big issue I have with this is there is no way EVE players will share the loot. You will have people in the fleet only looking to pick up the drops and not follow what the FC is saying. This will lead to good FCs giving up because they need to kick people all the time for almost losing a few Bil in ships over 1 mod worth a few Mil. Good idea but not practical with most of the eve players in the game.
2: Having the Sites Change how they run. We canGGVt do this for mission runners, how are we going to do it for Incursions? Not saying itGGVs a bad idea, just saying itGGVs impractical. Yes, Eve players are smarter than a majority of the other MMOs, but thatGGVs not much to shake a stick at. One of the big reasons Assaults and HQs are not ran is because thereGGVs still is too much for a new FC to know and think about. The training will get done, but I donGGVt know anyone in eve thatGGVs willing to be a few Bil ISK Ginny pig. That is also with the current Incursion setup. You add even more stuff that changes, people will stop all in all.
Like I said, you have good ideas and I support most of them, but these two topics are to impractical to work anyway to run them.
V

Incursion distribution should be like this:

1 hi-sec
3 low-sec
3 0.0

That would fix most of the problems

Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.