Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
518
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I'm making this thread on behalf of CCP Bettik, who is a very shy and retiring dev and doesn't like to post much on the forums
As mentioned in the CSM minutes, we're looking into making various adjustments to Incursions in the coming months.
This thread is primarily to collect suggestions for "little things"-style fixes we can make to Incursions to make the user experience better.
Additionally, if you have any especially well thought-out feedback about the feature as a whole, and particularly about specific things you feel are wrong with the current implementation, go ahead and share those too!
CCP Bettik will be reading every single page of this thread in the coming weeks, but he doesn't like to make the posts - don't worry if there's a lack of visible dev presence in the thread, your opinions will be heard regardless
Thanks for listening, -Greyscale |
|
Gorongo Frostfyr
Shimohi Heavy Industries
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
delete highsec |
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
184
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Make the entire region of Stain one big incursion, just to see what happens. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
896
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
put the whole bloody mess on a timer The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
68
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
999
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
329
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
I appreciate what you're trying to do, CCP Grayscale, but you do know that this thread will only draw every single troll, incursion-hater, and whining incursion-runner that have until now been starting their own threads, right? I don't expect very much "thoughtful" discussion, myself.
However, I will contribute what is my layman's perspective (never having run incursions). The main issue appears to be people being able to "extend" incursions to farm Vanguard sites over and over, which have very high payout. For an activity done in high-sec, and with little risk of losing your ship to unexpected circumstances (no PvP), the amount of money is too high. "Too high" as in "higher than most other activities in all regions of space, including those with a significant degree of risk of sudden pew pew".
A simple fix would be to have incursions "dry up". CONCORD doesn't print money just to pay capsuleers (hopefully) and it makes no sense for Sansha to keep sending troops into the meatgrinder of Vanguard sites if they are getting utterly destroyed. Have the CONCORD rewards for a particular site decrease with the number of those types of sites that have been run in the incursion, or have the number of site spawns decrease. That would give people a reason to kill the mothership and allow a new incursion to respawn elsewhere.
Sorry I can't offer "little things", as I don't do incursions myself yet. I just trained Logi though, so who knows, I might get into it. |
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
68
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
100% this.
Remove all ISK payouts for incursion rats, bump up LP significantly. No ISK is created and the LP can then be spent to make cash the normal way.
Once the Mom is in play, all sites stop spawning. |
Krissada
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
116
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thank you, CCP.
Deploy incursion fixes in batches of two (the first being able to be applied quickly).
1. Reduce vanguard payouts by 15-20 % and boost assault and headquarter payouts by 20 %.
2. Do everything you discussed in the CSM minutes.
3. Include a more "battlefield" sense in the incursion constellation. Make it much more insecure than it is already. Have all systems continous respawn of rats on gates/stations/planets on a set timer much like rats in an asteroid belt. Have these rats scale with the difficulty of the system.
- I am aware you currently have Sansha spawn on the gates at the beginning of the incursion, but please make them respawn.
Yours truly and again thank you for listening to us, Krissada
PS: Payout balancing cannot happen soon enough. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
129
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
reduce ISK payment
increase LP payment (and improve LP shop !!) (some LP from the locals could be a nice addition)
20/40 player sites should always have a bigger income than 10 player sites
add some variability
make sure more ships will pop when players fail (high alpha is not the way to do this !)
a role for new players might be a cool addition |
|
Poloturion
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thank you.
Increase variability to add risk. Remove ability to blitz sites. Make the rewards from incursions add something to the game beyond isk. Make the reward primarily LP, meaning that incursions runners could provide a service to the rest of the player base with those rewards just like every other form of PvE. |
Xpaulusx
Hosti1e Traff1c Control
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reduce payouts ( no brainer). Lowsec:Most Incursion spawns being in Low-sec as well as highest paying, Low Sec needs something. This is a good start. Null: Incursion spawns should be rare. Empire: normal spawn rate but with the lowest payout. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
522
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed.
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
Something like that
|
Alicia Fermi
EVE University Ivy League
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 16:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
- Adjust the vanguard sites so that they cannot be blitzed quite so easily by shiny fleets. As an example, you should have to do more than pop the three Deltoles in an OTA.
- Lower the vanguard rewards slightly and increase the rewards of the bigger sites. This in conjunction with slowing down the shiny fleets is aimed at reducing the more silly ISK/hour fleets without unduly affecting the less shiny. That said, they should still pay more per hour than a level 4 mission: group play has to mean something.
- Variation in waves of NPCs.
- Spread out the sites through the constellation if possible. We do not want all the fleets crammed into the same vanguard/assault systems but flying all over looking for sites to complete.
- Scout sites could do with attention. They are useless and should be something the newbies can get their teeth into in small fleets.
- Rats on gates. (DOOOOO EEEEEET)
Edit: I would not go all LP. People incursioning are not missioning or ratting so there needs to be some ISK flow to keep things constant as you lose out on bounties that would otherwise be generated. Nor does the incursion need to stop spawning sites after the mothership appears, there is already a solution to that so-called problem. Perhaps the rewards could be reduced the longer the mothership is in the incursion (CONCORD gently nudging capsuleers to change their attention) but an all out stop seems too artificial. |
Ron Livingston
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Some changes I'd like to see: - Increase the number of sites needed to be run in order for the MOM to spawn. - Have the spawning of the MOM trigger the end of new sites spawning. (people get the payout for the sites they're finishing but no new sites). This would help eliminate the farming and the griefing that is happening atm. - Depending on how many sites must be run for the mom to spawn (stated above), maybe increase the spawn rate of incursion sites. This would also help with the congestion issues currently happening. - Increase the payouts for scout incursions. To a bit higher than lvl 4 missions. - Decrease the payouts for vanguards, not a lot though. - Increase the payouts for assaults and headquarters, should make more isk than vanguards. - Increase the payout multiplier for incursions in low sec.
So. in summary, with these changes there would be more incursions in more system that would run for shorter amounts of time than they normally do now (when being farmed), people would kill the mom as intended, and move out to another incursion. With more incursions at the same time there would be less congestion. With CCP controlling the spawn rate, any complaints about HS making too much isk, could be adjusted on the fly behind the scenes. There would be more incentive to run the higher level sites, as there should be.
Well.. that was my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
344
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Incursions need some other objectives than just "kill more NPCs" in my opinion.
Some of the "optional" stuff such as disabling the repair structure should be more prevalent and mandatory like in the mining facility. It's too easy to just MAX DPS AND TANK.
Despite all the complaining about how hard the MOM fleets are when they insta-pop and alpha some logistics - please, that was one of the most amazing PVE Experiences I ever had. And I got my Logistics blown up.
We went in there with 14 Logistics, and we came out with 4. Out of 60 pilots.
~Someone in the fleet asked afterwards "How many Logis did we bring?" ~I responded "Just enough."
IMPORTANT SUGGESTION :
What bothered me was that I got no credit for that in the fleet after I was destroyed - no ISK or LP because I had been popped down to a POD, but you don't get any money if in your pod in a site. Is there a way we can give Fleet members in the Incursion sites the ability to get credit if they lose their ship while in there, or are sitting in their capsule in the site? That really really sucked because we did not get any credit, after fighting tooth and nail to take down that Mothership - and on top of it all, because we actually LOST more ships and went under the minimum ship" the whole fleet lost ISK as well because they were under the peak gradient for rewards. :(
I think that needs serious fixing - because it was uncool to go through all that effort and lose out.
The #1 Rule I wish the CCP Devs would understand is that :
Skillpoints, ISK and Player Numbers are not a deterrent to EVE Players. We can, will and have overcome EVERY DEVELOPERS challenge that focuses on Skillpoints, ISK and Player numbers as a "challenge to overcome" - and frankly, pretty damned easily, and only easier over time.
When developing, look at other things that are the barriers to success that force us to use Skillpoints, ISK and Player Numbers together to overcome the challenge, but not those AS the challenge in itself.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
gfldex
283
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with getting rich in EVE, yet Incursions allow so with little afford. Quite in contrast to most Incursion haters I actually run them. The best I ever got where 780M before LP in a single day (about 7h). All I had to do was to warp around in the same system and shoot the same NPCs over and over again. I know of two pilots that crossed 1B in a single day before LP. That might be a little much for highsec don't you think? One player told me he used to bot before Incursions. So Incursions is even better then botting.
There is only one way to top that and that is running complexes in 0.0. Complexes that are not spawning as fast as you can clear them out like Incursions. And you only get this if you run a 10/10 solo. I'm sorry but that is not exactly balanced.
Risk wont come from NPCs it has to be provided by players. So either heavyly limit the Incursions that happen in highsec and move them to lowsec (OMGWTFLOWSECBOOST?) or make Incursion sites in highsec PvP zones.
Believe it or not Incursions hinder PvP. If you run Incursions regularly you neither want to have wardecs nor killrights on you. Given that those players who stay for years tend to be those that PvP a lot it might be in CCPs very best interest to have a look at this problem.
Another problem with Incursions themself are unpopular sites. They are unpopular because it's a PITA to get a fleet composition to actually run them and when you got that you make a good bit less ISK out of those sites. There should be more sites on top of that with more restrictions to ship classes.
Changing the LP reward wont solve any problem. LP for normal missions have dropped quite a lot since CONCORD LP dropped below 800ISK/LP. If at all either remove the ability to trade CONCORD LP or move it to 0.0 factions only.
I don't think that lowering the payout would change much. Players will just run them for longer to get the same ISK. You might have to use your brain in a reasonable manner to deal with the problem and it might even take more then one iteration to untangle it.
EDIT: The forum tried to eat this post. For all what is holy increase that stupid timeout already! More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
People do incursions to make money to pvp, plex their accounts etc., if you eliminate the reward then no one will do incursions.
Currently there are only 2 incursions running both in low sec , therefore 100's probably 1000's of CCP customers are bored , bored CCP customers play wow :.)
I would definately be for more variety and difficulty in running the incursions sites.
The Idea that "too many" people are participating and making "too much" money, and presumably having too much fun as well, is ridiculous , are you sure we want less people making money and having a good time ? seems like a poor buisness plan to me.
An Incursion should last 3-7 days , the mom should appear and all other ites stop working , and the incursion should end. followed by a respawn no later than the next Down time. the reason Vanguards pay better is they take fewer people . THe assualts take 20 people and you cant get 20 people all doing the same thing as easily as getting 10 people . I propose all site take 10 people. and vary the difficulty of the site. or have the sites difficulty vary with the number of people doing them. |
mkint
740
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
This thread is heading nowhere good. If you want incursion feedback, ask people who run incursions, not people who are butthurt because "ihazdrake!" doesn't get any fleet invites. Especially since you at CCP already know what really needs to be changed:
Blitzing needs to be fixed (payouts are fine, 1-2 minute completion times are not. 5-6 minute completion times are completely reasonable.)
assault/hq need to be buffed isk/hour to be more attractive than vg's by at least 10-20%. I don't know if it's the sites faults, or the FC's, but doing them is painfully slow. 1 hour fleeting up, 30 minutes doing a site, 1 hour waiting for replacements for the people the who dropped because waiting hour and a half between wallet flashes sucks noodles. Ludus knows how to blitz assault sites profitably at least, but no one else seems to be able to. How about you ask him how he does it, and what would need to happen to be able to get more people along. You know, like I said, ask people who know, not butthurt trolls.
mom timer - the whole not-killing-the-mom thing is the players trying to fix something that was broken from deployment, and still not fixed going on 1-year later. It was publicly stated by the designers that incursions are meant to last about a week. It is trivially easy to spawn the mom in an hour. It's not working as intended. It's broke. Fix it. Whether that fix is making the mom harder to spawn, a hard timer, or the mom despawns and the influence bar starts reverting if the players don't kill the mom, the current situation is broken and the trolls are all butthurt that players are using workarounds to make it work as intended. The fight against the influence bar should be a real fight. Seriously, why was this not fixed a year ago?
If moms ARE going to be killed within the hour of an incursion spawning, incursions need to respawn faster. Travel time sucks, but it's better than sitting with our thumbs up our asses going "now what?"
It would be cool/interesting if corp membership were rewarded in incursions instead of punished. Never ever EVER join an incursion corp. Especially a successful one. It's the single stupidest thing you could do if you want to run incursions. That is a problem. Not a game-breaking one, but one for which it seems like there could be some fun creative solutions.
It's annoying that the ihazdrake children whine about not getting into a decent fleet, but that's their own damned faults. Adding another class of site that pays less than lvl 4's for the ihazdrake children might not go amiss. The scout sites pay less than lvl 2 missions and are useless, move them to the rookie starter systems, put up a splash window on warp in telling the rookies to bring friends.
Incursions are pretty hard to do casually. If I'm x'ing up as a logi, I'm x'ing up with the expectation that my fleet might not find a replacement for me in 3-4 hours. That might be my own fault as much as anyone's, but having sites that pay in the lvl 4 range with a fleet comp of 1-5 people would help bridge the gap between solo PVE and incursions.
That's what's really broken, but you already know this. You already know that incursions add no more isk to the economy than any other form of PVE, especially since the LP added is an isk sink. You shared the data at the summit that inflation is not a problem right now at all. The whining "they pay too much" butthurt trolls are wrong, and you know it, though that's 99% of what this thread is going to be. Pay is fine. The players organize themselves, share standings lists, and have worked out a lot of that "emergent gameplay" you people like to brag about so much. Fix the problems and the complexity of the emergent gameplay will increase. Listen to the butthurt trolls, and incursions will die, and you'll lose all those subscriptions who refuse to go back to lame missioning or ratting after having done incursions.
edit: Lowsec incursion payout is fine. They already get farmed by people who can, and will NEVER get farmed by people who can't. Simple as that. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
344
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
The difficulty from Scout to Vanguard is way too big - I know Incursions are well settled in now and so on - so maybe this is less relevant with the community - but the first time we went to Incursions we did some Scouts and were like "Ok, this is easy, let's try the next challenge up" and got totally BBQED WTFPWNED.
Sure, that's part of the fun - but it seems like it should be a LITTLE more smooth difficulty build up than that.
The current Vanguards have been mastered to a large degree very easily. I would like to see more "randomness" in those sites that actually branches each individual site into multiple variations that you have to prepare for and potentially delay you randomly.
Some will have a faster completion, some will have a slower completion, but having very random trees of escalation in the individual sites would help keep things more fun, interesting and vary the actual ISK/HR depending on a bit of luck and a bit of preparation.
Biggest issue for those changes I would say are properly communicating what you have to do now, if it's not specifically an NPC kill challenge built into the site.
~I support the idea of longer times until Mothership appearance ~I support the idea that penalties should take longer to nullify, dramatically longer time. ~Decrease the payout for HIGH SEC Vanguards, but keep them the same for low/null sec. High Sec VG makes 7.5M ISk down from 10M Isk, but Low/null still makes 15M ISK. Just change the penalty ration for high sec.
The phenomenon for Vanguards being way more popular than Assaults is 2 fold -
Getting 20 people to stay in a fleet together for 2 hours to run constant incursions without requiring a 30 minute break to refuel on people after each site is really a HASSLE, and is the main deterrent for a lack of the Assault Fleets.
What I actually recommend is increase the number of players you can have in an Assault so that you can still run them with 20-25 people, but you can stock up to 30 people in your fleet to get rewards, if you lose 3-4 people, you can keep going and look to replace them.
The other alternative is to increase the reward slightly for Assaults - I'm sure more people would stay in the fleet if they felt they got more rewards per "tick". Even if Vanguards are the same ISK/HR than Assaults, the psychological nature of having less rewards per hour is in play here. The ADD nature of gamers is coming through, they want to feel rewarded every 5-10 minutes, not every 20-30 minutes.
Ask anyone who runs Assaults and their first reaction is : "It'd be fine if our fleet would not be forced to stop running incursions to get more people!"
HQ's seem to suffer from that less, and I think it's because there's more critical mass of bodies that can keep that kind of fleet propelled forward after you finally form the fleets together.
Another thing that would help is the ability to "Merge Fleets" easily - this would allow Vanguards to grow into Assaults and then into HQ's. I know this is a technical challenge, but if that can be accomplished, it would smooth the way for combining fleets into larger bricks to take on the bigger challenges.
I like the idea of splitting the fleets into 2 compounds, the ship restrictions do make it a hassle though. Find other ways to implement this concept. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
|
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
197
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
-make vanguards harder, there far to easy as they are. balance all sites so they can not be blitzed. -buff payouts on scouts, make them worth bothering with. -isk payouts can go down as long as lp payouts go up to compensate. -add more stuffs to lp pools, currently so much of it is crap. add 6% science implants, new faction/concord mods etc etc etc. -make the mom only show after x amount of time, currently its after so many sites. so an incursion can be done in such a short time, they really should have an 'expected life span' -increase the number of sites per system, if the sites are harder and take longer there should be more of them -some randomness to the rats/spawns would be good, keep people from getting bored. be careful with thsi one, you guys tend to make things too megahelldeath nukethelivingfuckoutofthem first time round CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
Reppyk
The Black Shell
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sansha gatecamps in high sec, but with a message popup when you're about to jump inside the constellation. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
535
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
try to stop encouraging people to farm pve content
- penalties are to low, there is no good reason to kick the sansha out of the constellation (no gatecamps highsec, nothing what hurts) - HQ rewards are to low - sites do not escalate: if you gain control, easy sites should disappear until only the boss site is left
give incursions a escalation scenario. They could start with small sites until player gain some system control back. This annoys the shansha quite a bit and they start the big offensive with the larger sites. If players beat them and continue to gain control smaller sites disappear until only the HQs are left.
the current system just invites to farm it. I would be curious if it was intended this way or not - i really hope not.
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
183
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Okay actual suggestion.
Could you try making incursions as close as possible to actual PvP? Shorter engagements, far less predictable, the chance to actually lose your ship, etc. Require warp scramblers to keep targets on grid, realistic ship stats and drops instead of the standard meh DPS battleship rat?
So basically sell your faction fit legion and buy something you can afford to lose. |
Sedilis
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
1) Reduce the payouts to bring it in-line with other PvE activities in that level of security space 2) Stop the blitzing of sites 3) When the mother ship spawns tail off and eventually stop other sites from spawning so that incursion has to be completed not farmed indefinitely 4) If you do no.3 then reduce the re-spawn timer so another incursion pops up sooner in another region of space. People can move and run the new one |
Nerve Grallok
Khanid Liberation Front
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I enjoy incursions as they are currently implemented. However it is hard to enjoy them when they only last for a few hours, so I recommend:
1) Making it take longer for the mothership to appear. I suggest one week minimum.
In terms of general system streamlining and simplification I also recommend:
2) Reducing or eliminating the LP reward and increasing the ISK bounty reward.
Thanks for taking the time to solicit and read player feedback! |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Despawn the incursion at the DT after the Mom has been killed and then respawn any replacement incursion. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed. Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. Something like that
Carefully cycle the items in the associated LP store so that there is always something interesting to buy, but the market doesn't glut on any one item. You might also consider making the MOM site, and only the MOM site, a PvP area. |
Braelyn
Good Vs. Neutral Stop Exploding You Cowards
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. 100% this. Remove all ISK payouts for incursion rats, bump up LP significantly. No ISK is created and the LP can then be spent to make cash the normal way. Once the Mom is in play, all sites stop spawning.
This is an interesting idea. Support. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Sansha gatecamps in high sec, but with a message popup when you're about to jump inside the constellation.
What happens if an incursion with rats on gate spawns on one of the main autopilot routes between Jita and one of the other hubs? |
|
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
68
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Reppyk wrote:Sansha gatecamps in high sec, but with a message popup when you're about to jump inside the constellation. What happens if an incursion with rats on gate spawns on one of the main autopilot routes between Jita and one of the other hubs?
Same thing that happened in the Incursion trailer... a lot of freighters gonna die. |
Gul Amarr
Orange County Cruisers
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
mkint wrote:This thread is heading nowhere good. If you want incursion feedback, ask people who run incursions, not people who are butthurt because "ihazdrake!" doesn't get any fleet invites.
Trusting the cat to keep the cream much? |
Classy McSucksalot
Nuclear Nautics
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Speaking for the industrialist community, I believe I know why so many people are upset with the incursion mechanics (as evidenced by posts such as Large Collidable Object's).
Traditionally PvE in EvE has generated both ISK and materials, i.e. salvage and loot drops, which are used to build ships and components. As long as the amount of ISK and materials generated from PvE were relatively balanced, the prices of said materials would remain fairly stable. Inflation would occur with certain rare goods as materials can leave the game via PvP while ISK only leaves the game via sales taxes and NPC sell orders, but in general market competition would keep prices close to the cost of manufacture.
Incursions are allowing a large amount of ISK to be injected into the marketplace, with little production of material goods. By all accounts this should be causing massive inflation, but prices in Jita have actually been fairly stable, why?
Because the people who are generating the ISK (incursion runners) have nothing to spend their money on, apart from faction loot and PLEX, which have indeed been going up in price rapidly since the introduction of incursions. This is especially upsetting to those who live in 0.0 as they are having to use more of their income to PLEX their accounts which they would rather use to PvP, as well as increasing the cost of fitting out their ships.
In order to rectify this situation, I recommend reducing the ISK payout from incursions, and adding decent drops and salvage to the Sansha rats to balance it out. This also has the side benefit of allowing PvP in incursion sites in the EvE tradition of loot ninjaing. Nuclear Nautics, for all your production and transportation needs. |
Ninavask
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Here is what should happen:
-Lower Sansha Influence gets less sites till when the mothership appears only the mothership site exists. Similar to if you were actually pushing back the Sansha, not just farming them.
-Lower Sansha influence get more violent the sites get, increasing spawns and such by 10-15 percent.
-Lower isk payout for vanguard sites by 30-40 percent and boost headquarters sites by 30-40%
--Include Sansha pirates on gates incresing per system, make them act like belt rats. Also have them over planets and any other celestial beacon.
-Boost mothership takeout rewards so people have the sense to actually kill it.
-Increase CONCORD LP by 30-50%, focus more on LP then on cash.
|
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
raise the vanguard site payouts by 10%, assaults by 30% and remove CONCORD or CONCORD responses completely from hisec incursion staging sites during the incursion period. |
Tore Vest
154
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
I want all gankers moved to Solitude... And.. Timer on mom.... lets say 5 days or something before it spawns Everything else is just fine No need to change anything more Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Haqar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Here are my thoughts on it
Put the mom on a 2-3 day timer and link it with the influence thing Make the sites more like this if possible:
vanguards like a lvl 3 mission assualts like a lvl 4 hq like a lvl 5
While on that note make the sites as diverse as lvl 4 missions are, meaning take all those lvl 4 and convert them to a assaults with obvioudly more damage, with all the different lvl 4 you have alot assaults comming:)
Make the mom fight the most difficult thing around.
With that said redo or balance the payout for the sites while your at it.
Make the diversity in the sites so that it doesnt take an hour to form a hq fleet or 40 mins to run one., or an assault cause you need to many ships with certain roles
Also sort the dreadfull tagging system into the tagger or fc beeing able to go 'tagging mode' and uses control click to tag the target Make it show in the fleet window/history on who blue the wrecks Hope this helps |
Lysaeus
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. The blitzing of vanguard sites needs to be addressed. Either by reducing their payouts or increasing the length of time required to complete them. I'm partial to the latter as it could also be used to increase the amount of dps on the field and make the jobs of the logi pilots at least a little interesting.
2. Forcing the death of the mom shortly after it spawns. I do support the idea of new sites no longer spawning after the mothership appears. In order to keep incursions lasting longer than 2 hours the number of sites required before the mothership spawning would have to be increased by what margin I cannot say as I really don't know the current numbers. However, the appearance of the mothership should be signal the end of the incursion and should start the withdrawal timer.
3. The disparity between vanguards and assaults/headquarters sites. This is both that too much can be made blitzing vanguards and not enough is made running assaults/headquarters. Here I would suggest both reducing the isk/hour potential of vanguards and bossting the payouts on assaults by 10-15% and headquarters by 20%. I would also like to see the payout on the kundalini manifest increased by nearly 50% to help people rush to it when it spawns (so long as it automatically starts the withdrawal timer)
If these (especially 2) were to be used it would have to be met with a reduction in the spawn timer, perhaps somewhere in the neighbourhood of 25-50% (unintended consequences which would appear in low sec incursions include more revenant bpc's and their drop rate would have to be reduced to counter an increase in total drops). Even that would be far superior to the rampant ignore the boss farm vanguard sites for 5 days while we print so much isk it mocks nearly any other isk making venture in the game all while protected by the omnipotent space police. |
Carton Mantory
Cult of Baal
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
Killing any NPC for incursions,Ratting or mission running. Make it all LP and salvage and loot. This goes the entire map 0.0 low-sec and high sec.
Let NPC be like the drone region... enuff said. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
632
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
I would say that incursions should ramp up slowly - between 12-24 hours from appearance before they hit their maximum spawn rate for the sites. If players start engaging and completing sites then the incursion should ramp up faster (to the minimum of 12 hours to reach full speed).
After hour 60, there should be a gradually increasing chance that the mom site will spawn. Start with a 1% chance each hour, add 1% every additional hour, with a forced spawn around hour 90. If players are hitting the sites hot and heavy, make the percent chance of appearance increase by 2% each hour.
(Having the mom site spawn before the 60th hour makes incursions a bit unfair towards the more casual players who can't get out there until the incursion is already a day old.)
The mothership site should have a despawn timer, randomly between 10-30 hours. Which also ends the entire incursion, whether or not the mom is killed.
Once the mom does spawn, the frequency and maximum number of sites which can be up at the same time should start trailing off in a linear fashion over the next 10-30 hours (corresponding with the mothership despawning).
|
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
632
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 18:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Sansha gatecamps in high sec, but with a message popup when you're about to jump inside the constellation.
As long as the sansha gatecamps do not scram/tackle, that would be fine, as many of the incursions take place along travel bottlenecks. CCP would have to add more bypass routes between constellations before they could make the gate camps more then a minor annoyance.
|
Teroh Vizjereij
Tolarian Academy
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
Classy McSucksalot wrote:
In order to rectify this situation, I recommend reducing the ISK payout from incursions, and adding decent drops and salvage to the Sansha rats to balance it out. This also has the side benefit of allowing PvP in incursion sites in the EvE tradition of loot ninjaing.
While i can follow your thought process .. you missed one big thing : Those sites are run in fleets with 10-40 people.
So you'd either have a clickfest like on Diablo2 baalruns about who gets the loot or you would need to implement a personalized drop system ( which i doubt is possible in the current underlying systems ) |
Heo Hyungie
Chimaerazz
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ninavask wrote:Here is what should happen:
-Lower Sansha Influence gets less sites till when the mothership appears only the mothership site exists. Similar to if you were actually pushing back the Sansha, not just farming them.
-Lower Sansha influence get more violent the sites get, increasing spawns and such by 10-15 percent.
-Lower isk payout for vanguard sites by 30-40 percent and boost headquarters sites by 30-40%
--Include Sansha pirates on gates incresing per system, make them act like belt rats. Also have them over planets and any other celestial beacon.
-Boost mothership takeout rewards so people have the sense to actually kill it.
-Increase CONCORD LP by 30-50%, focus more on LP then on cash.
I support ninvask's ..also suggesting the boss kill loots dropped in container accessible only to winning fleet FC ( optional ) if some players cries n tears bout this , oh well ...just let anyone loot it as always ..i dont care anyway.
More incursion spawns rate in low/null sec .... maintain current spawns rate in high sec.
Bout increasing the payouts for HQ sites , might as well add a mini-boss too ..like a carrier or dreadnought for the fleet to fight against as last wave in each site. More fun too. Hell why not put a boss in assault sites too lol. |
Wyte Ragnarok
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
*obvious alt is obvious*
Anyway, I've run a few incursions. I don't do them for too long like all the silly incursion bears, earning billions of isk. I've taken part in 3 or 4 incursions. In each incursion I ran vanguards for about 2-3 hours each. Yes I've earned enough to buy me a nice shiny ship in that time (I already had the isk to do so anyway), but incursions provided a nice bit of isk and a change from the boring mission running. Sure I agree, vanguards need to be made a little harder and perhaps take a 10-20% hit in isk payouts, perhaps increase LP, like some others mentioned.
Another idea (and I don't know how you lot will view this), is put a limit on how many sites a single pilot can run. I enjoyed the incursions I ran and I don't want to see them nerfed to buggery. If you made them on par with level 4's, barely anyone would run them. If you perhaps put an isk limit or something on how much one pilot can earn then it might stop the whole idea of "farming" them. And will promt people to do different sites or complete the incursion. Or put a cap on the total isk paid to pilots by concord. Either way, I think there needs to be a cap of some sort. But then, putting a cap on the total isk will just force elitist groups to farm them until the cap is reached, not leaving any for other pilots, making incursion running something for higher SP pilots with shiny ships.
Anyway, flame on I guess. New Eden is bound to complain at my suggestion :P |
Jiltan
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
How about incursions only spawning in low sec?
Would require more coordination, which is a good thing. Ganking an incursion fleet should be very hard to do.
Would allow people abusing incursion mechanics to be regulated by player driven fleets.
Would encourage low sec population growth.
Would give low security space a purpose.
just a thought
|
Thrallok K'tarr
Eternal Conflict
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
I love incursions. They allow me to socialize late night, while pulling in good ISK. I consider a good shiney fleet one that pulls in 60M IKS/hr or more. They are always good fun.
Just 3 points:
1) Say no to the haters. Listen to those who fly these and love them. Bore us and we will play Skyrim / facebook etc.
2) Get rid of MOMs, give incursions a set time limit. Yes, nice drops, but hard to divide up fairly, and MOMs are always run on a european timezone... Thus after 3 or 4 months of incursions I have only run one ever. BRICK fleet sucks. Even if we pvp it there are issues with MOMS going down for days at a time.
3)I don't see a big problem ISK/ risk is fairly blanced. . Maybe lower payments on VGs: by 20% and boost Assaults and HQs so that with the best ships in the game and great skills 60M ISK/hr is a definite possibility. +40% to HQs should do it. Something similar for Assaults. Right now: not a chance. It takes time for fleets to form up, etc.
I will be happy to see the sites evolve and more missions and chances for pickup co-op with decent isk come out of this. And I am glad you are listenign to the players. When I heard that a board of lo sec leaders was putting in all the input on incursion changes it made me sick.
|
Wolfteox
Demonic Wolf Pack
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Being a fairly new to these i have found that VGs are so much a wast of my time and the VG farmers are messing things up for those of use that prefure to do AS and HQs. Mainly cause it gives a more dinamic to running the sites and less like a rat race.
The mom sould not show up till two factors have happen first being the pass of a 48hour game time and then have the influnce taken down as well after that time has passed before it shows.
By all means make the VGs harder and pay less.
What is also funny is all these people crying about the ISK being made are doing the vary same thing themselves and at times are even coming to Highsec to join in on this while crying foul at the same time.
Inprove the Tagging system for those that take the time to go though the time to run them. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
130
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Teroh Vizjereij wrote:Classy McSucksalot wrote:
In order to rectify this situation, I recommend reducing the ISK payout from incursions, and adding decent drops and salvage to the Sansha rats to balance it out. This also has the side benefit of allowing PvP in incursion sites in the EvE tradition of loot ninjaing.
While i can follow your thought process .. you missed one big thing : Those sites are run in fleets with 10-40 people. So you'd either have a clickfest like on Diablo2 baalruns about who gets the loot or you would need to implement a personalized drop system ( which i doubt is possible in the current underlying systems )
or you join a group with a dedicated noctis following and sharing the loot later (more socialising = better game !) |
Vistus Geyer
Black Company Merc's
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:People do incursions to make money to pvp, plex their accounts etc., if you eliminate the reward then no one will do incursions.
Currently there are only 2 incursions running both in low sec , therefore 100's probably 1000's of CCP customers are bored , bored CCP customers play wow :.)
I would definately be for more variety and difficulty in running the incursions sites.
The Idea that "too many" people are participating and making "too much" money, and presumably having too much fun as well, is ridiculous , are you sure we want less people making money and having a good time ? seems like a poor buisness plan to me.
An Incursion should last 3-7 days , the mom should appear and all other ites stop working , and the incursion should end. followed by a respawn no later than the next Down time. the reason Vanguards pay better is they take fewer people . THe assualts take 20 people and you cant get 20 people all doing the same thing as easily as getting 10 people . I propose all site take 10 people. and vary the difficulty of the site. or have the sites difficulty vary with the number of people doing them.
This sums it up very well, I personally run incursions a so that I can plex my account and then it pays for all the nice ships that my m8's get blown up " An Incursion should last 3-7 days , the mom should appear and all other ites stop working , and the incursion should end. followed by a respawn no later than the next Down time." Also make the 20 man fleets pay out more taking away the isk from doing incursions will kill it people just wont do them. If you live in null and like the fact that people can make isk in high sec stop crying about it and come to hi sec....... we play how we want to you play how you want to, but when you take away the ability of pilots to earn isk to buy ships and plex its only going to push people away to maybe go play that other space mmo.
Yes there are people griefing incursion fleets and those that claim to be killing moms for a political reason are very much hypocrits as many of them do hi sec incursions on their main toons and have made a crazy amount of isk to me its them saying HA !!! we have bajillions sorry boys but we dont want to share our cake with you. |
Choi Xao Evotori
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Incursions work very nicely as they are right now. Unfortunately they are subject to early closures. Please extend the incursion spawn time and impliment a mechanic which ensures that there are always an even number of HighSec and Low/Nullsec Incursions running at any given time.
Thank you for your efforts and best wishes,
- Choi |
|
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Introduce more variety in individual sites to make them more unpredictable and interesting to run.
Nerf VG payouts by 20% or so, and impose a cap on how quickly individual sites can be completed, possibly by having timed waves or requiring that more ships be killed.
Do something about that one assault site that requires a very specific mix of BS and cruiser-sized DPS to make it less of a pain in the ass to form up an assault fleet.
Introduce mechanics to make it easier to merge fleets - it's pretty crazy that in busy incursions, you'll often have several sub-optimal VG fleets chasing the same sites while two systems over, the assaults go begging. Mechanics that make it easier to form and maintain bigger fleets would encourage people to tackle the bigger sites more often.
Introduce mechanics that put pressure on players to clear an incursion promptly rather than farming it for as long as possible. However, also increase the amount of time required to make the mothership spawn - it's crazy that an incursion can be spawned, farmed to the point that the mothership site appears, and killed all within the space of 6 hours or so. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
608
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Change Vanguards so they cant be blitzed which is giving the shiny fleets a huge advantage. Leave payout and LP reward the same.
Put mothership spawn timer 24-48 hours after the bar is completely blue.
Increase amount of site spawns per incursion.
One incursion per major empire.
A way to quickly prove relevant skills such as logis showing cap and logi level without having to resort to API. |
okst666
Bad Request
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
Automatically disband corps and alliances, then ban users that shoot the mothership before a certain amount of the smaller sites (lets say 5000) have been accomplished. then they are free to go.
Also incursions should spawn at a much faster rate than now...and they should "infect" more and more systems and grow over a short amount of time. This is barely an invasion...
Additionally - to take care of the lack of fleetcommanders - give us the possibility to have NPC-Fleets to join.
The NPC-FC should automatically tag the right targets. And NPC-Fleetmembers should follow them too. Also NPC-Fleetmembers should be able to listen and follow to the "NEED SHIELD, NEED ENGERY" orders the human fleetmembers give in the fleetwindow. It would be nice if they have sleeper AI .. they automagically repair eachothers...so the code is allready there..it should be easy to implement incursions NPC-Fleets too.
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
522
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ninavask wrote:Here is what should happen: -Lower isk payout for vanguard sites by 30-40 percent
|
Paddlefoot Aeon
Montreal Irishmen
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
The biggest complaint people have about incursions is Money. Money is used to buy Things... which is why people want money.
However, adding more money into a closed system devalues the money already in the system, creating inflation. At the core, this is the major complaint of all those yelling "nerf incursions".
Lets look at some other complaints:
1 - Incursions are too safe - the risk-vs-reward ratio is messed up
Solution: significantly increase the payouts for doing incursions under-manned. The current reward curve looks like a normal distribution (bell curve). Change the curve so that is either linear with a decent downwards slope, or a log curve. People will risk their ships for higher rewards by going into incursions undermanned... resulting in more popped "shiny" ships.
2 - Too much money enters the system - highsec incursions get farmed
Solution: Decrease the payouts from highsec sites. A vanguard pays, at max levels, 10.5million per pilot. Drop that to 6. Increase the lowsec payout, and have the null-sec payout higher still. As risk (in terms of space) goes up, so do the potential rewards.
3 - Incursions can be farmed - they don't despawn for a long time.
Solution: Tweak the timers on incursions. Highsec incursions pay less.... and last for 4-5 days max. Lowsec pay "middle"... and last for 3-4 days. Nullsec incursions pay highest, but only last for between 1 and 3 days.
4 - Waaaaaaa. I can't use all my new money to buy THINGS!
Solution: Significantly increase loyalty point payouts, bringing NEW THINGS into existence without increase the ISK available in the system.
As a part of this, new items should be added to the CONCORD store. Armor and shield reppers/boosters, hardners, concord ammo.... all slightly better than Faction items... perhaps on the level of low-end deadspace stuff or weak officer level stuff.
As in Faction stores, you will need ISK and LP to make a purchase... but I think that we should use criminal tags in addition to certain items. As you need Caldari Navy tags to buy items in the Fed Navy LP store... you should need Guristas, Angels, Serpentis, Sansha or Blood Raider tags in order to buy these new CONCORD faction items.
The highest-end items should require officer tags.... something like a CONCORD capital ship BPC for a stupid amount of ISK, an insane amount of LP and several tags from each and every officer (3 Brynn, 2 Estemel, 1 Thon, etc).
For the TL:DR crowd: More LP, less ISK, increase risk or lower reward in highsec, more items in Concord LP store, and use pirate tags (Serpentis, etc) as requirements for items.
So, your thoughts?
|
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
69
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Automatically disband corps and alliances, then ban users that shoot the mothership before a certain amount of the smaller sites (lets say 5000) have been accomplished. then they are free to go.
Also incursions should spawn at a much faster rate than now...and they should "infect" more and more systems and grow over a short amount of time. This is barely an invasion...
Additionally - to take care of the lack of fleetcommanders - give us the possibility to have NPC-Fleets to join.
The NPC-FC should automatically tag the right targets. And NPC-Fleetmembers should follow them too. Also NPC-Fleetmembers should be able to listen and follow to the "NEED SHIELD, NEED ENGERY" orders the human fleetmembers give in the fleetwindow. It would be nice if they have sleeper AI .. they automagically repair eachothers...so the code is allready there..it should be easy to implement incursions NPC-Fleets too.
Literally the worst idea I have ever read on these forums... If you want more NPCs, you are in the wrong game. Eve should keep on the path of LESS NPC interaction in all facets of gameplay.
|
Haqar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Automatically disband corps and alliances, then ban users that shoot the mothership before a certain amount of the smaller sites (lets say 5000) have been accomplished. then they are free to go.
Also incursions should spawn at a much faster rate than now...and they should "infect" more and more systems and grow over a short amount of time. This is barely an invasion...
Additionally - to take care of the lack of fleetcommanders - give us the possibility to have NPC-Fleets to join.
The NPC-FC should automatically tag the right targets. And NPC-Fleetmembers should follow them too. Also NPC-Fleetmembers should be able to listen and follow to the "NEED SHIELD, NEED ENGERY" orders the human fleetmembers give in the fleetwindow. It would be nice if they have sleeper AI .. they automagically repair eachothers...so the code is allready there..it should be easy to implement incursions NPC-Fleets too.
OR.....you fc yourself.... |
Faelyn L'Darcassan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
While I am not a regular incursion runner, I did run several incursions. To reiterate some of the issues that I see:
- Role-playing incentives for running Incursions
From a role-playing player perspective, current incursion effects are somewhat limited since right now, there is no incentive to actually kill an incursion. Incursion penalties include constellation-wide decreased bounties, resistances, damage, cyno jamming. None of these seem to be good reasons to end an incursion from a simple player perspective, since it goes away in a couple of days anyway. While it primarily disrupts mission running, missioners can easily go somewhere else or gang up and earn even more ISK/LP by running the incursion. Thus an incursion is actually a BONUS and not a penalty. This corresponds with the current rage of players when there are no high-sec incursions (if an incursion was a bad thing, everybody would be relieved instead of raging, right?).
Also the overall footprint that an active incursion has on the universe is significantly limited and goes away once it is finished (i.e., quickly). Compared to a real-world scenario, a large scale invasion/incursion into peaceful territory usually has significant longer term effects. While mission (incursion) runners could not be bothered less to kill an incursion, other players currently have even less reason to end an incursion as their activities are not significantly disrupted. Perhaps stronger rats in belts could be the only reason for a handful of miners, but even these can either go a couple of jumps away or wait till next week anyway.
- Site difficulty and payout balance
The overall balance of sites is weird. Scout sites can be soloed even in low-skilled battlecruisers. Although vanguard sites can be solo tanked by some ships (e.g. tech 3s with pure t2 fits), and even be run with a small fleet of t3s (4 are enough), going into vanguard sites with less skilled people using t1 ships is very difficult compared to scout sites. With a decent fleet, vanguard sites however can be blitzed very quickly for very easy ISK and little risk.
Not having played assault sites, but being in several mothership fleets, these seem to require a lot of coordination and cooperation in large fleets. While it may not take long to actually run a site like this, it takes long to prepare and assemble a fleet for a major site significantly reducing effective payouts. The result being that it pays more to grind low-end incursion sites than actually kill an incursion.
- Global impacts and relation to other eve activities
The amount of ISK that can be earned in incursions seems to be far higher that other eve activities in ISK/hour ratios and even more so, if slack time or risks are included in other activities (e.g. null sec complexes, wormhole anomalies, and the associated logistics issues and POS costs). It seems to be pulling people from other activities back into high-sec incursions whereas the general rule should be that more money is made in low/null sec with higher risks, which seems to be broken right now.
The increasing prices may or may not be due to incursion induced ISK (Concord seems to be printing ISK like mad); while it may just be a regular economic cycle, still the prices seem crazy these days and may be the result of people doing mostly incursions (more ISK supply) instead of other things (resource shortage) resulting in price spikes and inflation. Leaving the inflation aspect aside, it seems plausible that high-sec incursions are drawing more people back into high sec from other places mostly due to overly high payouts with minimal risks (who would otherwise want to voluntarily grind the same vanguard site every 2-5 minutes?).
So what do you guys think? Any other issues one might have with incursions, before we try to find suitable solutions?
|
HolaJita
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
I agree that compared to other sites vanguard payouts are really high and should be lowered by a quarter at least. Even nerfing high sec payouts makes sense but you have to fix how an incursion ends.
Incursions ending in 3-4 hours with a cooldown of 24 hours just doesnt make any sense. Either remove them totally or fix it so any incursion will be up for at least equal to the cooldown of a new one spawning.
I have 4 accounts, i am using 2 of them for incursions, 1 of them for pvp and other is for just derping around. If the current situation goes on, i wont have the isk to pay for all of them, so i ll either have to spend more time on money making and less on pvp or close 2 of them. which i have no use but incursions. |
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. |
|
okst666
Bad Request
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Haqar wrote:okst666 wrote:Automatically disband corps and alliances, then ban users that shoot the mothership before a certain amount of the smaller sites (lets say 5000) have been accomplished. then they are free to go.
Also incursions should spawn at a much faster rate than now...and they should "infect" more and more systems and grow over a short amount of time. This is barely an invasion...
Additionally - to take care of the lack of fleetcommanders - give us the possibility to have NPC-Fleets to join.
The NPC-FC should automatically tag the right targets. And NPC-Fleetmembers should follow them too. Also NPC-Fleetmembers should be able to listen and follow to the "NEED SHIELD, NEED ENGERY" orders the human fleetmembers give in the fleetwindow. It would be nice if they have sleeper AI .. they automagically repair eachothers...so the code is allready there..it should be easy to implement incursions NPC-Fleets too.
OR.....you fc yourself....
I do not want to be responsible for any ship losses. In fact I want the total opposite..I want someone to blame and shout at about ship losses! Even better if it would be an npc..so it is CCP's fault again.
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
70
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl.
If 0.0 moons take no effort, why don't you take a few for yourself? After all, according to you, it's risk free!
And calling a high sec incursion risky is laughable at best and completely moronic at worst. |
Myz Toyou
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
- let the sec status of the Incursion system drop by 0.2 every 24 hours after the MOM has spawned - no CONCORD in Incursion systems - HTFU |
Zubrette
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
1. Bring back Sansha Gatecamps in High-sec. People who carelessly wander into an Incursion system should pay in blood. This forces people to be social in the Incursion channel and actively seek safety in numbers when pushing through a system. Right now they just spawn once the Incursion starts and after being killed they do not respawn.
2. It's ridiculous that you can make more ISK/hour in Incursions than in 0.0, you must balance Incursion payouts to match Level 4's. I do think that payouts in Lowsec / 0.0 should be much larger than their highsec counterparts, considering the risk.
3. If you do not wish to balance payouts, please remove the ability to extend an incursions duration by avoiding the Mothership. After the mothership spawns, sites should not respawn. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Many folks here have valid points.
After running the incursions for abit i have to agree that the Vanguards are needing some attention to help promote the higher areas to play in making them more appealing.
Seeing that 0.0 likes to come up to Empire space to play with the incursions and not the ones in 0.0 space I like to suggest something for those that are left alone far too long. They start to spread to other constellations that are next to it. This should make a really good balance between empire and 0.0 incursions seeing that there is a different level of security over the areas. Empire has navy ships to help defend systems as 0.0 has none and its up to the players to defend it. I have done an incursion out in 0.0 are they are not friendly it does require large alliance fleets to deal with them but they are use to doing the blob action of drakes.....i think they will need battleships and basilisk pilots for sure.
Enjoy kids |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
92
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
What I would like to see is the following:
1) Change the isk/lp ratio to make a larger part of the income be from lp.
2) Do not allow sites to be blitzable. To me it's stupid that you can complete a site with a total of 20 or something ships by only killing 3.
3) There should be better payout from the higher end sites relative to the low end (aka vanguard), since they requires alot more effort and organization to run. This is probably best started by making vanguard sites require all Sansha ships to be killed, and monitoring the behavior of the players. If the majority still run vanguards exclusively a nerf to income from vanguards might be warranted aswell on top of the blitz removal.
4) Stop the sites spawning once the mothership is up. However, it should probably take longer for the Sansha influence to be removed to prevent an incursion to be gone in a matter of hours. I would think aiming for 24 hours if an incursion constellation is fully utilized is a good number. To prevent people from organizing swaps between incursions to prevent a mothership spawn you would probably do best to remove the regain of Sansha influense all together.
This is what I can come up with from the top of my head, I'm sure I can think of more eventually. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Morganta wrote:put the whole bloody mess on a timer
I agreee each Incusion should be put on a 7 day timer & at least 3 should be up in HI SEC all the time Also I'd like to see a new form of Incusion ( DRONE incursions where the dead drones poop moon goo ) and a week or 2 after the new incursions start a climax to the Sansha incursion with a steep drop off of Sansha incursions & a ramp up of Drone incursions! |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
270
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
Remove incursions from hisec. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Reppyk wrote:Sansha gatecamps in high sec, but with a message popup when you're about to jump inside the constellation. As long as the sansha gatecamps do not scram/tackle, that would be fine, as many of the incursions take place along travel bottlenecks. CCP would have to add more bypass routes between constellations before they could make the gate camps more then a minor annoyance.
I like the idea of HI SEC Sansha gate camps too but the gate guns should occasionally fire on Sansha if they agress |
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:39:00 -
[70] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. If 0.0 moons take no effort, why don't you take a few for yourself? After all, according to you, it's risk free! And calling a high sec incursion risky is laughable at best and completely moronic at worst.
So whats the effort again? You launch a tower, than after tmw won't even be work to fuel... and let it mine money.
In order to lose said tower you need like 1000 people to attack you (so ya, kinda why I don't take a few myself!).
Incrusions you need to work as a fleet, need logis who are paying attention, need to warp around to different sites, beat other fleets who are in said site (or find another)
You need one falcon to jam your logis and boom, likely 2-3bill MIN lose.
Ya that moon goo is really risky hard work! Now that I see it all laied out... how foolish I was to call it easy!
Your nerf idiots are just that, any SMART eve player is just going to do what makes the most isk/h if you nerf incrusions to lvl 4 isk levels... most are just gona go run those easy lvl 4's...
If you nerf vanguards... everyone will just run the new better site... either make everything = of deal with the fact players are going to be drawn to the most isk/h things. |
|
Haqar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:- let the sec status of the Incursion system drop by 0.2 every 24 hours after the MOM has spawned
I like that, would add that the mom loot gets increasingly better the sec staus drops |
Wolfteox
Demonic Wolf Pack
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:- let the sec status of the Incursion system drop by 0.2 every 24 hours after the MOM has spawned - no CONCORD in Incursion systems - HTFU
Well i would have to say i would agree with the sec drop as long as they add a timer to when the mom can show up. It would help get more POSs placed in highsec by lowering the sec enough to place it then killing the mom to restore the sec levels.
As for point two NO cause then its no better then Null or low sec and defeats the whole idea of it all in the first place. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Joe SMASH wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. If 0.0 moons take no effort, why don't you take a few for yourself? After all, according to you, it's risk free! And calling a high sec incursion risky is laughable at best and completely moronic at worst. So whats the effort again? You launch a tower, than after tmw won't even be work to fuel... and let it mine money. In order to lose said tower you need like 1000 people to attack you (so ya, kinda why I don't take a few myself!). Incrusions you need to work as a fleet, need logis who are paying attention, need to warp around to different sites, beat other fleets who are in said site (or find another) You need one falcon to jam your logis and boom, likely 2-3bill MIN lose. Ya that moon goo is really risky hard work! Now that I see it all laied out... how foolish I was to call it easy! Your nerf idiots are just that, any SMART eve player is just going to do what makes the most isk/h if you nerf incrusions to lvl 4 isk levels... most are just gona go run those easy lvl 4's... If you nerf vanguards... everyone will just run the new better site... either make everything = of deal with the fact players are going to be drawn to the most isk/h things.
Obvious troll is obvious. |
Samantha Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
this isn't ISK/HR Online... |
Vindictate
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
I think incursions need an expansion, like 8 more sites for each vg/assl/hq.
I also think having a Sansha beacon instead of nmc/ota so the sites are random and you dont know until you get there is a good idea.
Maybe a little drop 10% in payout of VG and boosting of other relevant to the resources it takes to get a 25 man fleet. This really needs to be taken into consideration, that is the effort of running a fleet.
Variety waves would be fun too like a solid wave of niarja/whatever, to just have a random chance or maybe just new Sansha ships
But not so you would die too quickly just adding dps/resist will NOT HELP
Other than that i expected the HS incursions to cause TONS of grief for the Bears but instead all I see are the Null/Low and even WH's crying and screaming the game isnt fair. Pretty damn ironic and hilarious.
|
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
70
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Joe SMASH wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. If 0.0 moons take no effort, why don't you take a few for yourself? After all, according to you, it's risk free! And calling a high sec incursion risky is laughable at best and completely moronic at worst. So whats the effort again? You launch a tower, than after tmw won't even be work to fuel... and let it mine money. In order to lose said tower you need like 1000 people to attack you (so ya, kinda why I don't take a few myself!). Incrusions you need to work as a fleet, need logis who are paying attention, need to warp around to different sites, beat other fleets who are in said site (or find another) You need one falcon to jam your logis and boom, likely 2-3bill MIN lose. Ya that moon goo is really risky hard work! Now that I see it all laied out... how foolish I was to call it easy! Your nerf idiots are just that, any SMART eve player is just going to do what makes the most isk/h if you nerf incrusions to lvl 4 isk levels... most are just gona go run those easy lvl 4's... If you nerf vanguards... everyone will just run the new better site... either make everything = of deal with the fact players are going to be drawn to the most isk/h things.
A fleet of less than 20 can take out a moon mining tower.
You are woefully uneducated and ignorant of what actually goes into moon mining and taking down moon mining operation. I am willing to bet you have never lived in 0.0 and ::maybe:: you might have visited there 1 or 2 times.
You stay in hisec, farming your precious NPCs for your precious ISK to farm your NPCs faster. You do nothing to contribute to the economy in game. You do nothing to contribute to the community of the game. YOU. DO. NOTHING.
also, you're an idiot. |
Snatch Frigate
Universal Moose Federation Moose Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
At the moment incursions have a problem with the griefers trying to stop others making isk
Agreed the vanguards may need fixing but on the other side of that is how often do you sit doing nothing whilst trying to make a fleet, often it can take an hour. Its worse for armour fleets as there appears to be 5-1 ratio of shields to armour ships (Not saying its a bad thing)
How it is at the moment where the mom spawns at the start is obviously not correct, As for no risk thats plainly cobblers seeing as we see wrecks often ,agreed usually a mistake but a wreck nonetheless.
Now someone mentioned no inflation but everything has gone up recently from faction tracking computers to tritanium now 4 isk in jita
No matter how you put it isk allows Eve to function down to mods ,ships,consumables and even toons, many incursion runners buy toons for say fleet boosters or make their own each puts isk into Eve, now nerf incursions and yes people will go to 0.0 run sanctums and make almost as much money.
At the end of the day if you nerf it people will move on to something else now atm we are getting back a lot of the players that left ,maybe they sold their toons and incursion runners bought them. One thing is certain we cannot afford to alienate another group of players without it hurting the only game I love and play.
Make vanguards harder whatever but bear in mind it can also hurt the game, in my tiny mind isk into players wallets means more real life dollars to CCP
Douchebag haters are going to hate nothing changes |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
Instead of the Kundalini BOSS ship always being a mothership a new boss site should appear occasionally with a TITAN... that way Incrusions would last longer then just 4 hours :) |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. If 0.0 moons take no effort, why don't you take a few for yourself? After all, according to you, it's risk free! And calling a high sec incursion risky is laughable at best and completely moronic at worst.
Ive seen many multi billion isk fit Billion isk battleships die in incursions, its not without risk, its a considerable effort to find good FC's and good logis to run with and there is always the risk of gankers bored with low sec, working under the outrageously arrogant idea that they need to "fix" something, blowing you up . |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
608
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
If you are coming to this topic to incite flames, Troll, Or post crap please take it elsewhere.
The main goal ought to remove the "stupid" advantage shiny fleets have. Which is ability to blitz sites with little effort while a nonshiny fleet has to complete the site fully.
For instance instead of having to mine the Ore directly. Have it so that the roid involved can be shot at to generate just enough to complete the site. And no more. Others have that issue of "Just carry what we need before we go in"
Then increasing the payout on the higher sites while keeping Vanguards the same. This should spread things out a bit.
Again I think it would be great that if he had some way of showing skills to fleet. Too many people are getting in with fake skills.
|
|
Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
71
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:57:00 -
[81] - Quote
It's funny that people who run a valid site are called griefers. Once the mom spawns, anyone is free to engage...
Just because you don't want the mom to die doesn't make people who do griefers. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
882
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:If you are coming to this topic to incite flames, Troll, Or post crap please take it elsewhere.
The main goal ought to remove the "stupid" advantage shiny fleets have. Which is ability to blitz sites with little effort while a nonshiny fleet has to complete the site fully.
For instance instead of having to mine the Ore directly. Have it so that the roid involved can be shot at to generate just enough to complete the site. And no more. Others have that issue of "Just carry what we need before we go in"
Then increasing the payout on the higher sites while keeping Vanguards the same. This should spread things out a bit.
Again I think it would be great that if he had some way of showing skills to fleet. Too many people are getting in with fake skills.
Sorry, BTL are aiming at flooding this thread :P
DarthNefarius > Here is the DEV string about how incursions should be 'fixed' start flooding it with suggestions on how to extend the incursions past 4 hours https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61055 |
Vae Abeo
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
mkint wrote:This thread is heading nowhere good. If you want incursion feedback, ask people who run incursions, not people who are butthurt because "ihazdrake!" doesn't get any fleet invites. Especially since you at CCP already know what really needs to be changed:
Blitzing needs to be fixed (payouts are fine, 1-2 minute completion times are not. 5-6 minute completion times are completely reasonable.)
assault/hq need to be buffed isk/hour to be more attractive than vg's by at least 10-20%. I don't know if it's the sites faults, or the FC's, but doing them is painfully slow. 1 hour fleeting up, 30 minutes doing a site, 1 hour waiting for replacements for the people the who dropped because waiting hour and a half between wallet flashes sucks noodles. Ludus knows how to blitz assault sites profitably at least, but no one else seems to be able to. How about you ask him how he does it, and what would need to happen to be able to get more people along. You know, like I said, ask people who know, not butthurt trolls.
mom timer - the whole not-killing-the-mom thing is the players trying to fix something that was broken from deployment, and still not fixed going on 1-year later. It was publicly stated by the designers that incursions are meant to last about a week. It is trivially easy to spawn the mom in an hour. It's not working as intended. It's broke. Fix it. Whether that fix is making the mom harder to spawn, a hard timer, or the mom despawns and the influence bar starts reverting if the players don't kill the mom, the current situation is broken and the trolls are all butthurt that players are using workarounds to make it work as intended. The fight against the influence bar should be a real fight. Seriously, why was this not fixed a year ago?
If moms ARE going to be killed within the hour of an incursion spawning, incursions need to respawn faster. Travel time sucks, but it's better than sitting with our thumbs up our asses going "now what?"
It would be cool/interesting if corp membership were rewarded in incursions instead of punished. Never ever EVER join an incursion corp. Especially a successful one. It's the single stupidest thing you could do if you want to run incursions. That is a problem. Not a game-breaking one, but one for which it seems like there could be some fun creative solutions.
It's annoying that the ihazdrake children whine about not getting into a decent fleet, but that's their own damned faults. Adding another class of site that pays less than lvl 4's for the ihazdrake children might not go amiss. The scout sites pay less than lvl 2 missions and are useless, move them to the rookie starter systems, put up a splash window on warp in telling the rookies to bring friends.
Incursions are pretty hard to do casually. If I'm x'ing up as a logi, I'm x'ing up with the expectation that my fleet might not find a replacement for me in 3-4 hours. That might be my own fault as much as anyone's, but having sites that pay in the lvl 4 range with a fleet comp of 1-5 people would help bridge the gap between solo PVE and incursions.
That's what's really broken, but you already know this. You already know that incursions add no more isk to the economy than any other form of PVE, especially since the LP added is an isk sink. You shared the data at the summit that inflation is not a problem right now at all. The whining "they pay too much" butthurt trolls are wrong, and you know it, though that's 99% of what this thread is going to be. Pay is fine. The players organize themselves, share standings lists, and have worked out a lot of that "emergent gameplay" you people like to brag about so much. Fix the problems and the complexity of the emergent gameplay will increase. Listen to the butthurt trolls, and incursions will die, and you'll lose all those subscriptions who refuse to go back to lame missioning or ratting after having done incursions.
edit: Lowsec incursion payout is fine. They already get farmed by people who can, and will NEVER get farmed by people who can't. Simple as that. ^^^ |
okst666
Bad Request
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:If you are coming to this topic to incite flames, Troll, Or post crap please take it elsewhere.
The main goal ought to remove the "stupid" advantage shiny fleets have. Which is ability to blitz sites with little effort while a nonshiny fleet has to complete the site fully.
For instance instead of having to mine the Ore directly. Have it so that the roid involved can be shot at to generate just enough to complete the site. And no more. Others have that issue of "Just carry what we need before we go in"
Then increasing the payout on the higher sites while keeping Vanguards the same. This should spread things out a bit.
Again I think it would be great that if he had some way of showing skills to fleet. Too many people are getting in with fake skills.
Sorry..shiny fleets are not the problem...this can easily be get rid of by a better fleet with shinier ships.. The main problem is that there areNO F4KKING HIGHSEC INCURSIONS IN THE GIVEN MOMENT (well I checked last, 2 hours ago).
Not for your shineys, not for mine!
An other option to get that proplem out of the way is that if someone shoots in the mothership he instantly is free to shoot on sight for everyone, till someone finally gets him.. for lets say 180 days.
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
92
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Incursions have been awesome for me to get to participate in mostly pick-up fleets and accomplish something. That something may be mindless vanguard farming but hey, I don't think I'm going to join a null alliance soon for mindless 1000 person fleet fights or pos bashing especially since I only log on for a few hours everyday depending on work schedules.
In short, incursions are good and shouldn't be nerfed just because null people are jealous. My 2 cents :) |
J Kunjeh
338
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:20:00 -
[86] - Quote
Very nice to see CCP finally polling the players directly about how to change Incursions. Glad that the mom interdiction got them to take action sooner than they were planning.
Lots of good suggestions in here. I would add my own, but they'd likely be too uninformed to matter much. I just want to say that Incursions should not be farmable they way they are now. Sitting on the mom for a week is a joke when that's the whole point of them, to kill them and end an Incursion. And it does seem that the payouts are a bit high considering there's no more danger in running an Incursion than in running L4's. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Serge SC
The Singing FC
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:22:00 -
[87] - Quote
I have ran all sites and these are my thoughts:
1. Vanguards are too easy - A 10-man gang with almost no tank can go in, finish a site in 4-8 minutes and move to the next one, while payout is far too generous for such a short period of time. Somewhere in the lines of half the current payout or 25-30% higher risk.
2. Vanguards are repetitive - This is no easy feat, however not impossible. Sites are the same all the time, without the element of random. Perhaps not completely at random, but several presets, for different NPC fleet composition, as well as random triggers. This falls into the vanguards being harder.
3. Assaults in general - Assaults are arguably the hardest sites. Nation Commander Networks are completely at random, and require delicate fleet composition and fleet management. But at the same time, Overwhelmed Civilian Facility is too easy, as the trigger is always the same and the amount of NPCs on grid is low. Nation Commander Strongholds are perhaps the most balanced sites, as there are 4 spawns that can be all at once or by groups. Problem is that payout can be inadequate for sites such as the Nation Commander Networks, which require a lot of planning, forming and managing, but pay the same as the other 2 which are noticeably easier and faster. My suggestion would be either increase the risk of all the sites, to the same level.
4. Headquarters are too easy - I mean this one. I've ran a lot of those sites, and they are too easy. Pay is adequate for the amount of NPCs that need to be shot down, however the fact that all sites are virtually the same all the time, can make them a bit tedious and/or repetitive. Sites could introduce random spawns using chance, as a surprise backup, or a second wave before the first is completely destroyed.
5. Headquarters require audio - all fleets do, but large fleets in particular need to rely on audio for commands, yet up to this day, problems are encountered with the ingame audio feature.
6. Tagging is too complicated - tags help identify the primary target, however tagging targets in these situations require too many clicks per target. Some people like it, but it would be nice to have the option to bind keyboard keys to, something like an automatic counter. Example: tag shortcut: SHIFT+T ; just type in SHIFT+T over NPC-battleshipX and automatically designate the first lowest number available in a scale from 0-9, for second target use the shortcut over the target in the overview, and designate the second lowest number available from the same scale. For letters could be used the same, but a second key.
7. Kundalini/Uroborus spawn - it is normally triggered when the influence first reaches 0%, however it sits there until taken down or the incursion withdraws completely. A solution could be that it does not spawn until the incursion starts withdrawing in the first place, or pilots should be required to achieve a certain goal before being capable of engaging against the flagship. If we want to put some story, it could be that the super-carrier spawns, but if engaged before the incursion withdraws, it will warp off and escape, covered by NPC ships.
8. Incursion states - currently there is established, mobilised and withdrawing. However nothing stands out as a difference between the three states of the incursion. It could be, as the names suggest, that once it is established, there are an X amount of beacons for sites to be ran per system in the constellation ; once it starts to mobilise, sites become harder as backup forces arrive to fortify their position and dominance ; lastly once withdrawing, lesser troops and lesser beacons can be found until it finally vanishes. This could play well with the super-carrier warping out if the incursion is not withdrawing first, as backup forces would arrive and rescue their leader (playing with storyline if you wish). A bit like Live Events, in which the super carrier can warp out.
9. Dynamic objectives - something in the lines of once in a site, especially the larger ones, having to disable their forces, or interrupt communications, bring a certain item. Somewhat like missions, but on the run, instead of just killing everything and shooting all the NPCs. Several sites have this already, but perhaps more sites require it.
10. Low-security incursion - same as the high-security requiring some rebalancing, low sec require some buff in reward and difficulty, as it comes with considerably higher risks for pilots. In high-security incursions, one is fairly safe from random encounters, not in low.
11. Faction incursions - why does it only have to be Sansha? Why can't it be the Amarr Empire invading Minmatar space looking to expand, and the loyalty and standings go to the faction with the sovereignty, as one is defending that space, but lose standings with the faction one is facing. Or for example Guristas incursion into Caldari space, or Minmatar into Ammatar space, etc. Most, if not all factions have ships that could fill the same roles as current incursion Sansha ships. Would add some diversity and some extra fun to the mechanics already in place, as well as further involve a pilot with his Empire of choice.
12. Rewards vs. missions - As a general, missions become useless to high-security pilots once they get into running incursions. The difference between the rewards of missions and incursions is far top noticeable, compared to the risk per site missions can be. A level 4 mission can tear down a ship, while paying less than half what one would do with incursions, with a higher level of safety. Incursions should not reward pilots anywhere above than twice what missions can pay under the same circumstances.
In my honest opinion, the mechanics are fine, but some extra features would be nice, to introduce some randomness, some extra risk and less automatisation from the pilots. Hope you take at least some of these into consideration as it could make incursions far more... |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
608
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:30:00 -
[88] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:If you are coming to this topic to incite flames, Troll, Or post crap please take it elsewhere.
The main goal ought to remove the "stupid" advantage shiny fleets have. Which is ability to blitz sites with little effort while a nonshiny fleet has to complete the site fully.
For instance instead of having to mine the Ore directly. Have it so that the roid involved can be shot at to generate just enough to complete the site. And no more. Others have that issue of "Just carry what we need before we go in"
Then increasing the payout on the higher sites while keeping Vanguards the same. This should spread things out a bit.
Again I think it would be great that if he had some way of showing skills to fleet. Too many people are getting in with fake skills.
Sorry..shiny fleets are not the problem...this can easily be get rid of by a better fleet with shinier ships.. The main problem is that there areNO F4KKING HIGHSEC INCURSIONS IN THE GIVEN MOMENT (well I checked last 2 hours ago). Not for your shineys, not for mine! An other option to get that proplem out of the way is that if someone shoots in the mothership he instantly is free to shoot on sight for everyone, till someone finally gets him.. for lets say 180 days.
Calm down.
As for the current stoppage. It is the group's fault for failing to take action to prevent the mothership from being destroyed. Training and or purchasing ECM characters, hiring merc. A bunch of things could have been done but instead people just dragged and dropped fits without worry. It is outside the scope of this topic and people have already stated that it should take longer for the mom to spawn by days.
And shiny fleets are a problem with vanguards. VGs in a shiny fleet are stupid easy. Simply because the only effort is a few kills and dropping off the stuff. That is mostly the reason VGs are farmed so much. They dont need a pay change they need to be changed to "Kill everything shoot rock and then gather and place"
The higher sites need an LP and pay increase. That will help push the shiny fleets out of vanguards.
|
Serge SC
The Singing FC
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Incursions have been awesome for me to get to participate in mostly pick-up fleets and accomplish something. That something may be mindless vanguard farming but hey, I don't think I'm going to join a null alliance soon for mindless 1000 person fleet fights or pos bashing especially since I only log on for a few hours everyday depending on work schedules.
In short, incursions are good and shouldn't be nerfed just because null people are jealous. My 2 cents :)
This is true. Most incursion runners don't log in the game for too long, so they can get into a fleet, run a while and then log off with a couple of extra ISK in the wallet. Perhaps incursions need a rebalancing and null-sec as well. Tech moons can give incredibly high amounts of ISK as well, with little to no danger once said alliance is fully settled.
On a side note, I wrote too much there, wall of text for the win. \o/ |
Banksae
BDLM Investments and Industry
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
mkint wrote: Assault/hq need to be buffed isk/hour to be more attractive than vg's by at least 10-20%. - Vanguards nare good as they are, if only the others are raised as well
MOM - the whole not-killing-the-mom thing is the players trying to fix something that was broken from deployment, Fix it. That is making the mom a hard timer.
The fight against the influence bar should be a real fight.
If moms ARE going to be killed within the hour of an incursion spawning, incursions need to respawn faster. Travel time sucks. -Going 30/40 jumps to only last a few hour as currently is happending to the hi sec incursions isnt worth the effort. Too much time waitlisting, fleetforming, running and forming again.
I play Eve currently with three accounts. And use incursions to feed my pvp needs, replacing lost ships etc plexing etc
If Incursions, their payouts, traveltime etc change drastically i will have to reduce my playing to a third. We have witnessed some player influences the last few weeks. Recent things in incursionland made it quite impossible to run incursions for a few days. For a large movement of players are popping moms almost the same moment they spawn for their own cause to make a certain point in hi sec.
I do not agree with this but it does show my and my fleets opinion to incursions. |
|
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
270
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:39:00 -
[91] - Quote
Serge SC wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Incursions have been awesome for me to get to participate in mostly pick-up fleets and accomplish something. That something may be mindless vanguard farming but hey, I don't think I'm going to join a null alliance soon for mindless 1000 person fleet fights or pos bashing especially since I only log on for a few hours everyday depending on work schedules.
In short, incursions are good and shouldn't be nerfed just because null people are jealous. My 2 cents :) This is true. Most incursion runners don't log in the game for too long, so they can get into a fleet, run a while and then log off with a couple of extra ISK in the wallet. Perhaps incursions need a rebalancing and null-sec as well. Tech moons can give incredibly high amounts of ISK as well, with little to no danger once said alliance is fully settled. On a side note, I wrote too much there, wall of text for the win. \o/ You will still be able to do all of that if incursions are removed from hisec completely. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
Xyzibit
New-Roots
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:40:00 -
[92] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Thank you, CCP.
Deploy incursion fixes in batches of two (the first being able to be applied quickly).
1. Reduce vanguard payouts by 15-20 % and boost assault and headquarter payouts by 20 %.
2. Do everything you discussed in the CSM minutes.
3. Include a more "battlefield" sense in the incursion constellation. Make it much more insecure than it is already. Have all systems continous respawn of rats on gates/stations/planets on a set timer much like rats in an asteroid belt. Have these rats scale with the difficulty of the system.
- I am aware you currently have Sansha spawn on the gates at the beginning of the incursion, but please make them respawn.
Yours truly and again thank you for listening to us, Krissada
PS: Payout balancing cannot happen soon enough.
THIS
Also boost scout sites and rebalance the effort of NCN assault sites ( they are really out of line compared to other assault sites )
VG sites should not only get their payouts reduced ( i agree on 15% less ) but also more random spawns to make them not predictable like they are now...
The mom could need a max time of lets say 24 hours after its spawn to be killed BUT only if it spawns later than it does now... farming incursion sites while mom is spawned is ok since not everybody can join mom fleets right after it is spawned so while some ppl will finish the mom within those 24 hours other players can just continue flying the sites they want to fly since mom fleet size is limited to ~50 ppl and there are sometimes 400+ players in an incursion constellation. thats why i would not like sites to stop spawning once the mom spawned but instead just have a limited time for the mom to get killed...
|
okst666
Bad Request
127
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: mothership he instantly is free to shoot on sight for everyone, till someone finally gets him.. for lets say 180 days.
Calm down.
As for the current stoppage. It is the group's fault for failing to take action to prevent the mothership from being destroyed.
Okay.. an actual post of me [sttrikethrough]which is not to be taken with a piece of salt..[/strikethrough]
Have it like this...players can jam other players without getting agression and concord attention in incursion sites (or even only in the mothership site).. This could get us in the position to bring more players into the incursion...jam those that want to kill the mothership all day long if needed to.. if they bring more ships, we will too.. and if one of them agresses one of the other group that nonagressionthingy collapses..and everything is to shoot at each others...THAT would be cool.. Concord will come and get rid of the agressors and everything will be status quo...it is decided by one of the fleets..
1. Pro Incursion fcs have to be more cautions WHO they let in their fleet.. 2. Contra Incrusion fcs will jsut get raped like they diserve 3 ... 4. profit [X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Akyla Dey
Springfield Pipefitters Union Local 371
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:49:00 -
[94] - Quote
While it's not really a 'little thing', I think Incursions shouldn't be ever-present content. Not only is it completely unbelievable from a RP standpoint (just how much resources/ships/men/etc does ol' Fred Sansha have?), but it provides the framework for truly dynamic content. Full blown Incursions should be an erratically timed, constantly evolving and escalating encounter. That way you can turn the isk faucet on full blast a few times a year while keeping things interesting and people on their toes.
How about having them culminate in a large scale live event every few months, complete with Sansha Supers and Dreads? When Incursions aren't going, quietly scatter Scout sites (with an isk buff, please) around k-space and let people run into them. Sansha should be constantly scouting, but not constantly throwing mass resources at Empire. Let things build to a head, with the rebalanced sites and payouts adjusted accordingly.
When the Incursion finally ends, let it dry up for a while. People can go back to whatever they want with a pocket full of isk and the wonder of when it's coming back. This also gives you a month or two to tweak things like AI and composition before bringing them back in. In short, iterate on your content. With the return of Sansha, you have a great opportunity to both continuously tune gameplay and keep players guessing as to what comes next. The idea that you as a company could strategically react in game as to how players are running the content is a wonderful idea.
Aside from lofty goals, my input would be along the lines of most people in this thread: - Lower Vanguard payouts - Scale back smaller sites when the Mothership spawns - Up payout for Assaults/HQ - Mothership on a timer - More diversity in sites to keep them from being blitz |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
121
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP, for goodness sakes, DO NOT listen to any of the incursion haters.
CCP, ask directly the leadership of BTL and TDF about what changes are needed, if any. DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
|
Teya Ihara
The Management.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
I've only run a handful of incursions, not farming them day in and day out like some folks. Given that I can say their current implementation is actually pretty fun, it's the only time I have *ever* sought out any other pod pilots outside my immediate group of friendlies at the time to go do anything in EVE. I don't run lvl 4's because they are simply boring, but incursions as they were farmed allowed me some time to get a day together and head out to an incursion constellation and have a bit of fun for an evening, and earn a good chunk of ISK doing it.
I don't care that people are killing off Mom's as they spawn, although it does mean I'll probably never find an incursion fleet to run with while it happens, I just find something else to do with my time. Incursions lasting an incredibly short amount of time don't really work for the way I play so no big loss. It does seem that the way things were going incursions were very popular with hundreds of pilots online in public channels looking for fleets at any given time. I think there could be a re-balance for the way incursion sites run by slightly reducing the rewards of vanguards while also improving the assault/HQ payouts.
In the end this is really much bigger than incursion risk vs reward ratio though. Its much more a problem with every other area of EVE having out of whack FUN vs risk vs reward comparisons, but I don't expect that to change, so an incursion re-balance might help some of the null power blocks feel better about themselves in the short run.
In the longer term I'd rather see more fun/risky/rewarding things added to nullsec that small groups of pilots can do on a more structured basis(notice how popular 10 man vanguards are), bringing more people out to the areas that really make EVE special among MMOs. |
okst666
Bad Request
127
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP, for goodness sakes, DO NOT listen to any of the incursion haters.
CCP, ask directly the leadership of BTL and TDF about what changes are needed, if any. DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
BTL...TDF!
WTF??
[X] < Nail here for new monitor |
Serge SC
The Singing FC
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote: ...shortened...
You will still be able to do all of that if incursions are removed from hisec completely.
Believe me, I know. Check my post above, the uber long one...I mentioned it on some bullet point (9 I think). Low sec needs a buff on rewards, due to the increased risk, and lack of interest from pilots. There is little reason for most people to head low-sec.
What I said are that high-sec need to be "nerfed" as people say it, as well as low "buffed". There is a lack of interest from pilots to head to low sec, as the extra reward is not worth the extra risk for many pilots.
I'm in for less payout in high-security, and more in low, but there is a lack of incentive basically. Something like "low-sec incursions can drop loot/mods/etc" or something in those lines, other than just the super carrier. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
270
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP, for goodness sakes, DO NOT listen to any of the incursion haters.
CCP, ask directly the leadership of BTL and TDF about what changes are needed, if any. DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
Clearly listening to the elitist heads of the ISK farmers is the right way to go.
I'm sure they have the game's best interest in mind, not their own pockets. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
Vistus Geyer
Black Company Merc's
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:It's funny that people who run a valid site are called griefers. Once the mom spawns, anyone is free to engage...
Just because you don't want the mom to die doesn't make people who do griefers.
Correct me if i'm wron gbut I think most who are refering to griefers are refering to those who are using alts to assume some Anonymity and form fleets to let pilots lose there ships this is part of the Hypocracy I've seen nearly all these same pilots have made untold billions running these same "Broken" incursions.
just say'in
on a second note baybe CCP should remove 0.0 space all together seeing there is a faction in EvE that wants everyone to have the same play style CCP should cater to the younger/newer player base :P |
|
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
185
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
What do you even need isk for anyway? |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
A statement of grievances
I remember when I first took my 125 man corp from low sec to NPC 0.0 in, god it was a long time ago, I think it was 2006. Sitting in council with the other CEOs of the alliance the feeling was almost palpable. My corp had only on trajectory to this alliance, to be merged with an existing corp and thus help sustain their flagging membership numbers. I have to say my corp outlived its CEO. At some point I just couldnGÇÖt take seeing drop mails from corpies who had been with us for years. I called it quits and turned the corp over to an XO who I probably should never have made a director.
Economics recognizes something called a resources curse. I once heard a politician in East Texas describe it as GÇ£when oil prices are high youGÇÖre a genius, when theyGÇÖre low youGÇÖre an idiot and thereGÇÖs not much you can do about it.GÇ¥ In real life resources curses enshrine failed governments and ideas. I have to say it certainly held true for null. The level of idiocy and fail I saw as a CEO and have seen since can barely be described. I think the non-faction Gallente blaster fit POS on a Dyspo moon pretty much summed it up. After leaving my corp I drifted through a couple 0.0 PvP corps. Most where simply empty shells. Identity and community came from the alliance level, not the corp level.
The game has changed a bit since it entered bittervethood. Wormhole space has become what low sec should have been in encouraging small community formation. Over half my old corp is now down a rabbit hole somewhere. That said I have the following grievances with the way CCP handles community.
1. The almost pathological insistence that there should be no community content in high sec. From recent statements it seems that CCP meant incursions for a small handful of players not as a way of sustaining a viable community.
2.CCPGÇÖs refusal to examine the NAV of Sov holding corps and compare it to the NAV of established non-sov/moon goo corps. If NAV > average non moon goo assets it means that a non sov corp cannot afford the buy in to 0.0 and must merge with an existing entity. A number of 0.0 corps are nothing more than predatory entities devouring smaller corps to keep up flagging membership numbers.
3.Unwillingness of CCP to analyze the outcomes of players entering an established 0.0 corp. How many are still in 0.0 in six months, how many are still with the same corp, how many are still playing the game?
4.Heavy on constant CCP subsidies to groups to community destroying entities. Moon goo is the obvious subsidy being paid by CCP to create large 0.0 alliances for marketing purposes. POCOs are another such subsidy (so were anomalies). This isn't a level playing field. You are giving isk to the group who is where it is now because back before invention one of their members landed a T2 BPO in the lottery, which got them into the null game, which became money moons, and now (possibly a couple corp names later) is the corp that we see.
In effect, CCP have declared that the only viable player communities shall be in null sec (and some in WH space) and are paying 0.0 entities to bring about this destruction. The question is not so much about incursion bounties as if a high sec based community will be allowed to exist. A number of 0.0 entities are threatened by this as, to be honest, their communities suck to the point that they cannot retain players if other options are available (and were only really being sustained by people wanting to be in on killing Bob/IT). The high sec incursion community has set articulated their desires fairly succinctly. Some nerfing to vanguard rewards is acceptable. Increased incursion difficulty (requiring the formation of stronger and more organized communities) is both acceptable and encouraged.
And of course null sec has responded that GÇ£you shall not have a player community that is not in null.GÇ¥
|
Vistus Geyer
Black Company Merc's
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
just my opinion here but some of what I seem to be reading kinda looks like this to me "all it is, imho, is the null sec alliances are throwing a fit because those in Hi sec can make isk without having to travel to null sec to be victimized by them".
But I do agree that incursions should be fixed ..."note prior post" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:It's funny that people who run a valid site are called griefers. Once the mom spawns, anyone is free to engage...
Just because you don't want the mom to die doesn't make people who do griefers.
Go check eve news 24 they got a video there of the greifers... they were enticing people into MOM fleets then warping off in their logi... that's my idea of not running a valid site.
That said I recall the MOM site was once buffed & became invulnerable ( ie hits on it did 0 damage ) maybe CCP should bring that 'feature' back |
Wot I Think
State War Academy Caldari State
228
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:08:00 -
[105] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
This would work perfectly! |
Arugas Koken
Peregrine Guard
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:14:00 -
[106] - Quote
Incursions are great. I got some good experience as a logi pilot before deciding to join a 0.0 alliance for some good fights (in the wake of the SC nerf and the imminent TiDi). There are definitely some problems though.
1.There are not the same opportunities in 0.0 to make such consistent isk as running hisec VGs. Sure the lowsec/0.0 incursions payout more but itGÇÖs not feasible to move from incursion to incursion like the highseccers.
2.It doesnGÇÖt make sense that VGs pay out so well when itGÇÖs exponentially harder to maintain the larger fleets for the more difficult sites (HQ etc). Nerf them.
Vanguard sites need to be brought in line with other sites and a way of making good consistent isk in 0.0 introduced to encourage hisec incursion runners to take the next step and move out to 0.0. Many wont as they are totally risk adverse or it doesn't fit their play style but some will if the isk reward is there.
One possible way of doing this is to introduce respawning sites (local npc pirates), using similar npc ai as incursions, to 0.0 systems that require fleets of subcap logistics/dps to complete. Should be very difficult to create a bot for 10+ pilots including logi/dps so shouldnGÇÖt be exploited like current sites and belt ratting. 0.0 Mining needs a big buff too.
I donGÇÖt think changing incursions to LP payout only is a good idea. I think it would cut the people running them down substantially which I donGÇÖt see as a good thing. Group PVE is better than solo pve. Must be better payout than running lvl 4s but lower than lowsec/0.0 income.
|
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
565
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:15:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mission is successful. Many thank yous to the incursion guys for sharing their ideas and input with us. I forwarded your ideas to CCP. Even more thanks to the pilots who come out and destroy the Motherships time after time. YOU guys applied the pressure to force meaningful dialogue. The players made this happen for their own reasons.//
I do not think that we should be able to form up 40 guys and deny content for thousands of people day after day. I think that no group of players should have that much power over so many people, by exerting such little effort.
Pretty sure no one will believe me on this next point, but here goes anyway. I also wanted to do my part to try to ensure that the nerf/changes to Incursions were not too extreme against Incursions, nor too light. Telling you guys "I did this to help you" will doubtless be received a either a troll or a slap in the face to the uninformed.
I am linking some of the dialogue I had with a few of the luminaries from BTL/TDF. I had 20+ conversations with the folks who organize a large portion of Incurions but the most productive/informative one is linked here. Hopefully we will see Incursions get rebalanced fairly and in a way that the majority of players agree with-both Incursion runners and the rest of Eve. It was necessary to halt incursions to force meaningful dialogue, and with luck everything will turn out for the best for as many players as possible.
Skunkworks, Kill It With Fire, Brick volunteers, the good people who joined our fleets and Krissada: My sincere thanks, what you have been able to accomplish is almost unprecedented in Eve. I stand in awe of your combined efforts and leadership. See you in fleet on Tuesday? How stupid is CCP? So stupid it took them SEVEN YEARS to make a "loot all' Button. |
Wyte Ragnarok
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:45:00 -
[108] - Quote
That was certainly an interesting read. I like the idea of a system going from Vanguards -> Assaults -> Special HQ -> Lockdown, then a mom might spawn and end incursion. Nice idea there. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
123
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
Darius III wrote: Psychopathic crap
You speak for no one who runs Incursions. And given your past tag lines where you slag CCP ad nauseam, I doubt they will listen to you either.
|
Kodavor
Jesus Saves .
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:A statement of grievances
I remember when I first took my 125 man corp from low sec to NPC 0.0 in, god it was a long time ago, I think it was 2006. Sitting in council with the other CEOs of the alliance the feeling was almost palpable. My corp had only on trajectory to this alliance, to be merged with an existing corp and thus help sustain their flagging membership numbers. I have to say my corp outlived its CEO. At some point I just couldnGÇÖt take seeing drop mails from corpies who had been with us for years. I called it quits and turned the corp over to an XO who I probably should never have made a director.
Economics recognizes something called a resources curse. I once heard a politician in East Texas describe it as GÇ£when oil prices are high youGÇÖre a genius, when theyGÇÖre low youGÇÖre an idiot and thereGÇÖs not much you can do about it.GÇ¥ In real life resources curses enshrine failed governments and ideas. I have to say it certainly held true for null. The level of idiocy and fail I saw as a CEO and have seen since can barely be described. I think the non-faction Gallente blaster fit POS on a Dyspo moon pretty much summed it up. After leaving my corp I drifted through a couple 0.0 PvP corps. Most where simply empty shells. Identity and community came from the alliance level, not the corp level.
The game has changed a bit since it entered bittervethood. Wormhole space has become what low sec should have been in encouraging small community formation. Over half my old corp is now down a rabbit hole somewhere. That said I have the following grievances with the way CCP handles community.
1. The almost pathological insistence that there should be no community content in high sec. From recent statements it seems that CCP meant incursions for a small handful of players not as a way of sustaining a viable community.
2.CCPGÇÖs refusal to examine the NAV of Sov holding corps and compare it to the NAV of established non-sov/moon goo corps. If NAV > average non moon goo assets it means that a non sov corp cannot afford the buy in to 0.0 and must merge with an existing entity. A number of 0.0 corps are nothing more than predatory entities devouring smaller corps to keep up flagging membership numbers.
3.Unwillingness of CCP to analyze the outcomes of players entering an established 0.0 corp. How many are still in 0.0 in six months, how many are still with the same corp, how many are still playing the game?
4.Heavy on constant CCP subsidies to groups to community destroying entities. Moon goo is the obvious subsidy being paid by CCP to create large 0.0 alliances for marketing purposes. POCOs are another such subsidy (so were anomalies). This isn't a level playing field. You are giving isk to the group who is where it is now because back before invention one of their members landed a T2 BPO in the lottery, which got them into the null game, which became money moons, and now (possibly a couple corp names later) is the corp that we see.
In effect, CCP have declared that the only viable player communities shall be in null sec (and some in WH space) and are paying 0.0 entities to bring about this destruction. The question is not so much about incursion bounties as if a high sec based community will be allowed to exist. A number of 0.0 entities are threatened by this as, to be honest, their communities suck to the point that they cannot retain players if other options are available (and were only really being sustained by people wanting to be in on killing Bob/IT). The high sec incursion community has set articulated their desires fairly succinctly. Some nerfing to vanguard rewards is acceptable. Increased incursion difficulty (requiring the formation of stronger and more organized communities) is both acceptable and encouraged.
And of course null sec has responded that GÇ£you shall not have a player community that is not in null.GÇ¥
So far this is the only post that is close to the base issues .
|
|
Faelyn L'Darcassan
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 00:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
Let us not only see incursions as the ISK making cow they are now, but examine their role-playing aspects tooGǪ Incursions should be major events with lasting effects not a one day thing and another mom popped. We do not see major real world factions start major invasions every 24 hours after allGǪ neither do we see a war/invasion without lasting long term effects on a particular region. E.g. make new incursions GÇÿspawnGÇÖ only once a week or dynamically based on how much incursions are run.
Suggested short term effects on the incursion constellation: -The usual Sansha penalties should still apply -Sansha spawn and attack players in every system GÇô at gates, stations, belts, even off-grid after a while (off-grid); gate/station guns are offline (you donGÇÖt want to take a Charon in there alone) -Security status of the systems drops by a fixed amount, e.g. a 0.5 system would get 0.5-0.3=0.2 security but still be a high sec system just with VERY slow concord response as in a 0.2 system (surely there is a formula for concord response times that could be adapted) -Station systems are affected, e.g. doubling session change timers
Suggested long term effects on the incursion region (incentives to kill incursions sooner than later): -Impose a long-term cumulative faction/concord tax on everything in the affected region, e.g. for a month (max. incursion duration), depending on how long the incursion was present and whether the mom was killed or not (for bounties, market orders, contracts). I.e. make everybody in that region feel the pain. E.g. 0.5%*Days(Mobilizing) + 1%*Days(Established)*ratio + 0.25%*Days(Withdrawing) tax, where ratio is computed based on Sansha killings in the establishment phase. Halve the tax, if the mom is killed and of course make it cumulative over time, i.e. more incursions in region = more tax.
Suggested incursion changes: -Use the three incursion phases GÇô mobilizing, established, withdrawing to adjust site difficulty, payouts and respawn rate (high influence = high respawn, payouts and difficulty). -Spawn multiple site classes per system, do not lock a specific system to vanguard/assault/hq; if site difficulty needs to be locked, make it an upper cap, not the only site class spawned. -Make payouts mostly (if not exclusively) LPs GÇô we save the galaxy, not our wallets, right? When did Luke Skywalker ever receive money for saving the galaxy? (or make the ISK payouts directly related to influence, zero influence = zero ISK, keeping LPs normal) -Rebalance incursion sites (dynamic difficulty and payout per effort spent, e.g. mission rewards decrease if some mission is completed very quickly, right?): Scouts ~ L3+ missions with smart AIs (all ewar, perhaps except jam to keep rookies alive) Vanguards ~ L5+ missions or C4+ wormholes with smarter AIs (all ewar as in pvp) Assaults ~ C5+ wormholes (the slugfest begins) HQ ~ C6+ wormholes (you need guts to even warp into one of these) MOM ~ C6+capital escalations (there IS a supercarrier in there, right?)
Mobilizing [max. 7 days]: influence grows from 0 to 100, slowed down by anyone running sites; with growing influence so do the penalties and rewards (e.g. make influence a modifier for payouts), sites spawn more often, difficulty (e.g. variability) of sites grows. Spawns mostly scouts and vanguards, some assaults/hqs based on influence.
Established [max. 14 days]: when influence reaches maximum, the mothership spawns and brings in major reinforcements GÇô site difficulty get a major boost depending on how many sites were run during the establishment phase (e.g. double the number of ships GÇô they have reinforcements after all, or less if many Sansha were killed before); site respawn rate reaches maximum, influence now drops when sites are run. Spawns some scouts and vanguards, mostly assaults and HQs. The difficulty boost is void once the mom is killed or off field.
Withdrawing [max. 7 days]: Sansha withdraw once the mom is destroyed, after mom warps off (e.g. after accomplishing their deeds or when influence drops below 25%); influence is dropping constantly, completing sites drops it further; when it reaches 0, the incursion is gone (notice that the incursion is still there after the mom is killed); Spawns scattered scouts and vanguards, some assaults. |
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP, for goodness sakes, DO NOT listen to any of the incursion haters.
CCP, ask directly the leadership of BTL and TDF about what changes are needed, if any. DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
Clearly listening to the elitist heads of the ISK farmers is the right way to go. I'm sure they have the game's best interest in mind, not their own pockets.
The same can be said about the csm. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
274
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
Vote for someone else then. Since coordination and planning got CCP to open this thread, it would appear to work. Or don't coordinate, don't vote, and complain endlessly when you're not represented. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:37:00 -
[114] - Quote
There really needs to be a more challenging 'Scout' site that those in non T3/Super shiney BS & logi can run which doesnot pay a 50k isk / 50lp pittance... maybe like a lyavite mining site which only mining & frig ships have access too to sell to the NMC runners or other Scout sites with MTACs & civilians which other sites can use |
EI7FPB 3
EI7FPB Ltd Liberi Fatales
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
Here is how I would change the Incursions.
- 1.Increase the pay out on the scout sites, and put gate on the sites, limit the size of the ships that can enter, to Battlecruisers and below.
- 2.Leave the Vanguards alone ( for now, more on this later ).
- 3.Increase the pay out on the Assault sites ( for now, more on this later ).
- 4.Have the SanshaGÇÿs Nation flagship ( The Boss, Mom site ) spawn after a few days.
Here is what I hope will happen after this changes.
- 1.Non-Incursion players can start to do Incursion. Level 3 & 4 Missions runners can use their mission ships, earn the ISK needed to buy a Shiny ship, and move to Vanguards.
- 2.Vanguards are very important, this is where you learn Fleet warfare ( ie working as a team ). Because of all the new players running Incursions, Vanguards will become overcrowded ( Very important, Next ).
- 3.Assault Fleet take too long get going, They need MORE players ( Good Vanguard Pilots ).
- 4.The Mom site, this is no easy fix. Incursion runners donGÇÖt want this site to spawn for at least a week or 2. Yes, we need the incursion to finish, so we get our LPGÇÖs. Non- Incursion players want the Incursion to go away ASAP.
How about having a fixed Incursion Region, with a few gates into each of the Hisec Regions, ( A second map. ), Pilots with a Security Status > 0 can NOT enter, CONCORD Sovereignty, each Faction can have a few stations in the Region, We will setup our own market hub. LPGÇÖs could be paid out at downtime, each day ( NO END TO THE INCURSION ) .
Pvpers have their own part of EVE space ( Lowsec & Nullsec ), So why canGÇÖt Incursion runners have a safe place to run incursions, away for the Grievers, any pilot whoGÇÖs Security Status falls below 0 will be transported to HIsec, ( No IFGÇÖs, ANDGÇÖs or BUTGÇÖs ).
Any player who says GÇ£Decrease the payoutsGÇ¥ Dose not understand Incursions, Most Incursion runners spend their ISK as fast as they get it. For me, Incursions are about Team work ( been in fleets with other players, Not mining or missioning solo, I make lots of ISK that way ), running contests, and having FUN, messing on COMMs, the ISK is good to, but I spend it as fast as I get it.
SHINY SHIPs and MODS: The big problem with Faction ships and Equipment is that NOBODY can build them, the ISK that Incursion runners make dose NOT filter out to other players. How about SHINY Battlecruisers.
Incursion running is new to EVE ( The best part of the game, in my opinion ), it need time to grow and change.
The CSM need to stay in Nullsec, and out of Incursions. The real discussion about Incursion happens on COMMs ( That where the Incursion runners are ) and NOT on the form.
|
Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
My little things:
- Quickest and maybe simplest way to "balance" vanguard blitzing is by tweaking the reward curve: just cut number of max pilots that get max reward a little (i.e. over 8 pilots in fleet you get 50%, 10 pilots you get nothing). - In assaults: Nation Consolidation Network is way too time consuming compared to other assaults, quickest way to "fix" this would be to remove one or more rooms we need to go through in split fleets to reach final room. - In HQ: Remove requirement to drop MTAC to shoot tower in True Creation Research Center.
A little bigger things: - Put some sort of restriction in spawn algorithm to prevent a system from having only the same type of site (6 OTAs, 6 NCN, 6 True Creation Research). This hurts a lot in Assaults and HQ when there are only NCN and TCRC sites. - Make finishing vanguards have less effect in reducing influence, like 1/4 of what it does now. The idea is to balance it to the point where it would be close to impossible to get influence down to 0 by just doing vanguards. Force us to run Assault/HQ fleets to get to the MOM.
And so we can harvest some moar griever tears: Put a timer on MOM spawn, make it spawn 1-3 days AFTER the influence has reached 0. |
Shinzhi Xadi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:59:00 -
[117] - Quote
EI7FPB 3 wrote:Here is how I would change the Incursions.
- 1.Increase the pay out on the scout sites, and put gate on the sites, limit the size of the ships that can enter, to Battlecruisers and below.
- 2.Leave the Vanguards alone ( for now, more on this later ).
- 3.Increase the pay out on the Assault sites ( for now, more on this later ).
- 4.Have the SanshaGÇÿs Nation flagship ( The Boss, Mom site ) spawn after a few days.
Here is what I hope will happen after this changes.
- 1.Non-Incursion players can start to do Incursion. Level 3 & 4 Missions runners can use their mission ships, earn the ISK needed to buy a Shiny ship, and move to Vanguards.
- 2.Vanguards are very important, this is where you learn Fleet warfare ( ie working as a team ). Because of all the new players running Incursions, Vanguards will become overcrowded ( Very important, Next ).
- 3.Assault Fleet take too long get going, They need MORE players ( Good Vanguard Pilots ).
- 4.The Mom site, this is no easy fix. Incursion runners donGÇÖt want this site to spawn for at least a week or 2. Yes, we need the incursion to finish, so we get our LPGÇÖs. Non- Incursion players want the Incursion to go away ASAP.
How about having a fixed Incursion Region, with a few gates into each of the Hisec Regions, ( A second map. ), Pilots with a Security Status > 0 can NOT enter, CONCORD Sovereignty, each Faction can have a few stations in the Region, We will setup our own market hub. LPGÇÖs could be paid out at downtime, each day ( NO END TO THE INCURSION ) . Pvpers have their own part of EVE space ( Lowsec & Nullsec ), So why canGÇÖt Incursion runners have a safe place to run incursions, away for the Grievers, any pilot whoGÇÖs Security Status falls below 0 will be transported to HIsec, ( No IFGÇÖs, ANDGÇÖs or BUTGÇÖs ). Any player who says GÇ£Decrease the payoutsGÇ¥ Dose not understand Incursions, Most Incursion runners spend their ISK as fast as they get it. For me, Incursions are about Team work ( been in fleets with other players, Not mining or missioning solo, I make lots of ISK that way ), running contests, and having FUN, messing on COMMs, the ISK is good to, but I spend it as fast as I get it. SHINY SHIPs and MODS: The big problem with Faction ships and Equipment is that NOBODY can build them, the ISK that Incursion runners make dose NOT filter out to other players. How about SHINY Battlecruisers. Incursion running is new to EVE ( The best part of the game, in my opinion ), it need time to grow and change. The CSM need to stay in Nullsec, and out of Incursions. The real discussion about Incursion happens on COMMs ( That where the Incursion runners are ) and NOT on the form.
Best post here ! CCP read this! |
JusFooling Around
JusFooling Around Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:19:00 -
[118] - Quote
Darius, I hope you are speaking from your "I'm a concerned CSM" mouth and not your pirate mouth. I'm not convinced that is a difference with any distinction, but I have an open mind.
The necessity to refine incursions is not disputed by most, if any, incursion regulars. Nonetheless, this is the internet, thus the nature of the needed refinements is in great dispute. In fairness to CCP (my sig does not insult them) it is rare for any organization to launch a major feature without refinements needed down the road.
I dispute your basic tenet concerning the risk/reward paradigm in hisec being broken. (Why it might be broken in only one arena is a discussion outside of the limited scope of this post.)
The risk/reward paradigm is not broken by demonstrated skill, or preparedness, Your loss of a 1.6 billion ship in the pursuit of a 128 million reward is proof that risk exists. I know people will attempt to sidetrack this discussion away from its core by arguing your reward was tears or whatever - the basic fact persists, your risk of isk in the form of a 1.6 billion ship was lost when the potential gain of isk was 128 million. Risking one entity to gain an ideal or different entity are very different risk/reward paradigms than the one being held out as broken, isk risk vs isk reward. Braggards at this point will begin to argue that losing 1.6 billion is nothing, but that is not the experience of most players. The numbers are quite persistent.
Your loss of 1.6 billion, for whatever reason... lack of skill, lack of preparedness, lack of fleet efficiency, poor planning, poor execution... whatever reason, does not change the numbers and remains proof that risk exists.
The risk/reward paradigm is not broken by demonstrated skill. That paradigm does not include a certainty of loss, only a risk of loss. You proved that risk exists.
I know your defenders have been quick to point out that you failed to fit your ship properly, even though it is true, that does not break the risk/reward paradigm. Regardless of how foolish or skilled a pilot may be has nothing to do with the presence of a risk far greater than the presence of a potential reward.
In looking at the circumstances around your loss, it is important to consider that sansha was dividing its DPS between two fleets instead of the usual one. That means twice as many ships, a subsantially larger force than normal was opposing the sansha. Strength does come in numbers, but in all forms of combat the rule stating that stupidity is a self correcting problem remains. All of the ship losses from your fleet prove risk exists, and even moreso for the unprepared or unskilled. This engagement proves that even when the player force is doubled and the possibility of any reward is halved, risk can still take it's victims.
Darius, I hope you keep your word about ceasing and desisting your contribution to having a very small number of players having some form of control over so many others by assisting in denying so many others a major feature of the game. Further, I hope you wield enough leadership to the other's whose cause you joined to have them follow your lead in this new, and I think, correct direction.
You have a lot at stake, are you really a leader or just a bugle? |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:19:00 -
[119] - Quote
Sansha needs to camp gates in hi-sec Incursion systems. |
JusFooling Around
JusFooling Around Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP had gate camping NPC in lower hisec systems long ago and got rid of that. |
|
Annoyed Tritanium Bar
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
EI7FPB 3 wrote:
... any pilot whoGÇÖs Security Status falls below 0 will be transported to HIsec, ( No IFGÇÖs, ANDGÇÖs or BUTGÇÖs ).
Actually, that's the only sentence that makes the post a 1/10 troll - someone posting a sentence like that may actually really be dumb enough to actually believe in that conglomerate of unbelievable idiocy the rest of your post was.
Wow - just wow... |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:32:00 -
[122] - Quote
When writing :words: on the internet it really helps if you sum up your thesis in one sentence at the beginning of the post. I think yours is something like 'darius lost a ship in an ad-hoc shitfleet therefore incursions are really dangerous', but it's hard to tell.
Once you have your thesis, then you use supporting arguments. These are the things that are appropriate to be of paragraph length. |
ImNotaCYNOALTGuys
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:34:00 -
[123] - Quote
I think incursions should go like this:
Incursion Spawns and sites are run. Once the nfluence reaches 0%, MOM Spawns but gate is locked. No new sites are spawned. The gate to the MOM is unlocked once ALL OTHER sites are complete in the constellation. |
Kel hound
Traveler 52 D-Collective
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
Troll thread is full of troll, adding my voice anyway.
Vanguards are too good. They have bread over-specialisation and need to be addressed. For just a base line example, a vanguard is worth 10mil isk, an assault, 18mil, and a HQ 31mil. This meens an HQ site is only worth 3x more isk than a vanguard and takes roughly 5 times as long to complete. Either the isk gained from assaults and HQ's needs to be buffed up or a better solution would be to reduce the payout from vanguards by about 20%.
Vanguard sites should also be tweaked to reduce over-specialisation. Nation Commander Outposts should include more cruiser and at least one battleship sized target, while Override Transfer Arrays should have their spawn mechanics changed to require the destruction of all Auga Hypophysis so that more than the destruction of 3 ships is required to complete the site. Nation Mining Colony's are teribad and the lyavite should be removed in favour of a destructible pressure silo to complete the site.
Assaults are probably the best balanced of all incursion sites. The only thing I would change is to allow ships of any size to use either gate in a Nation Consolidation Network.
HQ site's are about as interesting as watching paint dry. The only thing that makes them more fun than vanguards is having 40 people to talk to over comms. True Creations Rebirth Facility and True Power Provisional Headquarters are both just one long POS bash. True Creations Rebirth Facility is at least made interesting my the re-spawning mechanics of the site, but the alpha damage on warp in is so horrific most people dont want to run them. True Power Provisional Headquarters are just bad. You spend 20 min moving through gates then another 20min just watching your guns cycle. Would it be possible to replace the entire last room in this site with like a carrier fight or something? With stuff re-spawning while you fight the carrier. Maybe have a carrier applying reps to a busted sansha station?
If you listen to a few other suggestions here and remove the ISK payout entirely then some new goodies need to be added to the LP store. There's little in the concord store worth selling and a cold turkey switch to pure LP right now would pretty much kill incursions. Thats not to say it couldn't be done or that its a bad idea, but the LP store would definitely need something better than 6% implants and meta 2 capital mods first.
Lastly, and this isn't exactly a little thing, but lastly, it would be pretty awesome if incursions could be made more disruptive and more dynamic. Right now an incursion just means and end to missions and mining in the area, the mothership spawns when the bar is made blue. The status bar itself doesn't actually represent how much of an impact the Sansha have, its just a debuff that goes away with time. A better system might be to have more Sansha gate/station camps with a big red bar, to have concord rats show up and fight the sansha rats as the bar changes to blue, to have the mothership spawn more intelligently and to have it be a big thing, with the mothership providing a buff to the rate at which the influence bar changes and thus the rate at which the sansha are reinforced.
To quote Ammzi: "An interactive battlefield where the incursion rats also spread themselves to surrounding systems/gates/celestials. An incursion where all classes of systems are being fought in and no one left alone on the sideline. A more immersive gameplay and realtime decision making for who to primary and what strategies/ships to be used. " |
Recoil Happens
Debatable Results
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:53:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:When writing :words: on the internet it really helps if you sum up your thesis in one sentence at the beginning of the post. I think yours is something like 'darius lost a ship in an ad-hoc shitfleet therefore incursions are really dangerous', but it's hard to tell. Once you have your thesis, then you use supporting arguments. These are the things that are appropriate to be of paragraph length.
lol - good try to demean the great post - gee I thought this was a forum, not a dissertation committee.
sorry you are unable to focus for the two minutes it takes to read a great post.
A.D.D. much? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1158
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:55:00 -
[126] - Quote
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:That was certainly an interesting read. I like the idea of a system going from Vanguards -> Assaults -> Special HQ -> Lockdown, then a mom might spawn and end incursion. Nice idea there.
I still think some interesting sparks will fly if the mom has a despawn timer and if not destroyed in that time, ALL ISK and LP payouts do not happen.
Be even more "sparky" if only the people who were involved in the mom destruction got their ISK and LP.
Yeah I'm an *******.
|
O Maybelline
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 02:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
Jafit McJafitson wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:DO NOT listen to anyone who has taken great glee in destroying Incursion fleets, or destroying the potential income generation of so many.
What do you even need isk for anyway?
Why? For grandma's surgery, you dolt |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:01:00 -
[128] - Quote
Recoil Happens wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:When writing :words: on the internet it really helps if you sum up your thesis in one sentence at the beginning of the post. I think yours is something like 'darius lost a ship in an ad-hoc shitfleet therefore incursions are really dangerous', but it's hard to tell. Once you have your thesis, then you use supporting arguments. These are the things that are appropriate to be of paragraph length. lol - good try to demean the great post - gee I thought this was a forum, not a dissertation committee. sorry you are unable to focus for the two minutes it takes to read a great post. A.D.D. much?
I'm sure it was a wonderful post, whatever it was about. I am sorry for my obvious inadequacies and promise not to encourage clear and concise communication in the future. |
Rocket Rose
Obscure Industrial Visions
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:09:00 -
[129] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Recoil Happens wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:When writing :words: on the internet it really helps if you sum up your thesis in one sentence at the beginning of the post. I think yours is something like 'darius lost a ship in an ad-hoc shitfleet therefore incursions are really dangerous', but it's hard to tell. Once you have your thesis, then you use supporting arguments. These are the things that are appropriate to be of paragraph length. lol - good try to demean the great post - gee I thought this was a forum, not a dissertation committee. sorry you are unable to focus for the two minutes it takes to read a great post. A.D.D. much? I'm sure it was a wonderful post, whatever it was about. I am sorry for my obvious inadequacies and promise not to encourage clear and concise communication in the future.
120 + posts and you found one that needs work... it wouldn't have anything to so with how you feel about incursions would it? try, try real hard, you can understand it - what a victory it will be for you overcoming your deficits to be able to understand a few paragraphs |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:15:00 -
[130] - Quote
Rocket Rose wrote:120 + posts and you found one that needs work... it wouldn't have anything to so with how you feel about incursions would it? try, try real hard, you can understand it - what a victory it will be for you overcoming your deficits to be able to understand a few paragraphs
I'm sorry, I really would like to know what the post means but my mental capacity is just inadequate. |
|
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:24:00 -
[131] - Quote
Hrmm... did anyone listen to Osama Bin Ladens request's when he had a couple of planes fly into those towers ?
Darius. you need to grow up a bit mate |
Miss Congenialty
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 03:37:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Rocket Rose wrote:120 + posts and you found one that needs work... it wouldn't have anything to so with how you feel about incursions would it? try, try real hard, you can understand it - what a victory it will be for you overcoming your deficits to be able to understand a few paragraphs I'm sorry, I really would like to know what the post means but my mental capacity is just inadequate.
oh could you try to understand these two simple sentences - use Google define for the big words.
The risk/reward paradigm is not broken by demonstrated skill. That paradigm does not include a certainty of loss, only a risk of loss.
when you have finished reading, turn off your computer and singlehandedly raise the collective IQ of the internet and rid it of one troll.
Not even self-deprecation can mask a fool |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
Miss Congenialty wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Rocket Rose wrote:120 + posts and you found one that needs work... it wouldn't have anything to so with how you feel about incursions would it? try, try real hard, you can understand it - what a victory it will be for you overcoming your deficits to be able to understand a few paragraphs I'm sorry, I really would like to know what the post means but my mental capacity is just inadequate. oh could you try to understand these two simple sentences - use Google define for the big words. The risk/reward paradigm is not broken by demonstrated skill. That paradigm does not include a certainty of loss, only a risk of loss. when you have finished reading, turn off your computer and singlehandedly raise the collective IQ of the internet and rid it of one troll. Not even self-deprecation can mask a fool
Why are you being mean to me just because I'm dumb?
Anyway, Einstein said that unless you can explain something to your grandmother, you don't really understand it. This means that people I can't understand aren't worth listening to. |
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet). The people running Level 4 missions can pull about, donGÇÖt know from personal experience but from reading from other people asking, about 30-40Mil. Looking at the math an ok Vanguard FG can pull about 5-6 VGs in an hour, with Bio and refilling the fleet on players. That comes out to 50-60Mil, and with the added benefit of what CCP wanted with bringing people together. Missions can be done AFK, and done on auto pilot. If someone messes up and doesnGÇÖt follow the FC, the entire fleet can fall due to NPCGÇÖs out DPSing the logi.
Joe SMASH wrote:Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed. You just contradicted yourself in this. GÇ£Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorantGÇ£-GÇ£extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixedGÇ¥ Incursions were designed to last for about a week. This is the way the players have dealt with that issue and itGÇÖs working rather well. /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something coherent to say.
Ron Livingston wrote:Some changes I'd like to see: GǪ - Increase the payouts for scout incursions. To a bit higher than lvl 4 missions. - Decrease the payouts for vanguards, not a lot though. GǪ This would take away from the base idea of Incursions. I say this because, people are saying that Vanguards GÇ£make more than Level 4GÇÖsGÇ¥ ATM, but take 10+ people to do. Scouts are so easy that they could do that without the added benefit of having multiple people working them, and farm them faster making a bigger faucet. Also this would make it be even less likely to lose a ship so more grumbling from the builders. /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something coherent to say.
mkint wrote:... Blitzing needs to be fixed (payouts are fine, 1-2 minute completion times are not. 5-6 minute completion times are completely reasonable.). Who do you know that run them that fast? Yes an OTA can be 3-5 but not 1-2. That is going way too far to say that, but that's also with a VERY shiny fleet that is set up very well. Also thatGÇÖs if the Logi knows what theyGÇÖre doing and can hold the DPS of running three Deltols, something most Logi will not want to do.
mkint wrote:... assault/hq need to be buffed isk/hour to be more attractive than vg's by at least 10-20%. I don't know if it's the sites faults, or the FC's, but doing them is painfully slow. 1 hour fleeting up, 30 minutes doing a site, 1 hour waiting for replacements for the people the who dropped because waiting hour and a half between wallet flashes sucks noodles. ItGÇÖs not only FCGÇÖs Fault, itGÇÖs the fact that it does take an hour to form the Assault and HQ fleets, they take a lot of people to do, and they also take properly skilled FCGÇÖs to do them without losing a few Bil in ships. Yes, there are people like Holden and a few others that have helped out the two main groups, but it still take the training and trust of the pilots to fly under people that might not know what they are doing. If we could get people to be less lazy and nut up to taking the job of an FC, mind you, not everyone will follow a knuckle dragger of a person with a few Bil under their pants. We could have more Assault and HQ fleets running.
Post 1 V
|
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:34:00 -
[135] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:GǪ The current Vanguards have been mastered to a large degree very easily. I would like to see more "randomness" in those sites that actually branches each individual site into multiple variations that you have to prepare for and potentially delay you randomly. Some will have a faster completion, some will have a slower completion, but having very random trees of escalation in the individual sites would help keep things more fun, interesting and vary the actual ISK/HR depending on a bit of luck and a bit of preparation. Do this 1st with Missions then come talk with us. Just because WE are having fun with a group and youGÇÖre off in Lala land running a CNR or your mission ship of choice SOLO. ItGÇÖs funny that no one is complaining about missions and how much little risk is involved in running them with a well fit ship, kinda like incursions. Only big thing with incursions is you gatta trust the guy next to you not to shoot the wrong trigger or to rep you when you call for it. Take the other troll guns and point that at something else. IGÇÖm not saying youGÇÖre trolling most of what you say is valid, but pointing out parts that are not valid or reasonable.
Sedilis wrote:GǪ 3) When the mother ship spawns tail off and eventually stop other sites from spawning so that incursion has to be completed not farmed indefinitely 4) If you do no.3 then reduce the re-spawn timer so another incursion pops up sooner in another region of space. People can move and run the new one So you are saying donGÇÖt let them fame the same one, but farm another one that you need to move to? /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something coherent to say.
Sarah Schneider wrote:GǪ remove CONCORD or CONCORD responses completely from hisec incursion staging sites during the incursion period. This is just a way to make people that donGÇÖt want to PVP, PVP. Save your warmongering for people that are stupid not people that bring in isk so there alts can go play pew pew with you in your own area. /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something not involving warmongering to say.
post 2 V |
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:36:00 -
[136] - Quote
Carton Mantory wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. Killing any NPC for incursions,Ratting or mission running. Make it all LP and salvage and loot. This goes the entire map 0.0 low-sec and high sec. Let NPC be like the drone region... enuff said. Well said, IGÇÖll take it.
Jiltan wrote:How about incursions only spawning in low sec? Would require more coordination, which is a good thing. Ganking an incursion fleet should be very hard to do. Would allow people abusing incursion mechanics to be regulated by player driven fleets. Would encourage low sec population growth. Would give low security space a purpose.
just a thought
Someone else trying to kick over other peoples sandcastles. Can we find a forum post that doesnGÇÖt resort to warmongering?
Tsubutai wrote:Introduce mechanics to make it easier to merge fleets - it's pretty crazy that in busy incursions, you'll often have several sub-optimal VG fleets chasing the same sites while two systems over, the assaults go begging. Mechanics that make it easier to form and maintain bigger fleets would encourage people to tackle the bigger sites more often. I love this idea, it would help out in a big way to get fleets made for people that know how to run the Assault and HQ fleets. Very good idea.
Tsubutai wrote:Introduce mechanics that put pressure on players to clear an incursion promptly rather than farming it for as long as possible. However, also increase the amount of time required to make the mothership spawn - it's crazy that an incursion can be spawned, farmed to the point that the mothership site appears, and killed all within the space of 6 hours or so. But, you make no sense in the statement. What is the point in having them go away faster, if you just want them to come back faster? We need to make up our minds people.
|
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:38:00 -
[137] - Quote
okst666 wrote:Additionally - to take care of the lack of fleetcommanders - give us the possibility to have NPC-Fleets to join. The NPC-FC should automatically tag the right targets. And NPC-Fleetmembers should follow them too. Also NPC-Fleetmembers should be able to listen and follow to the "NEED SHIELD, NEED ENGERY" orders the human fleetmembers give in the fleetwindow. It would be nice if they have sleeper AI .. they automagically repair eachothers...so the code is allready there..it should be easy to implement incursions NPC-Fleets too.
WTF!? Why would we have bots doing what players are doing? You are asking us to use NPC for a player based game? /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something inteligen to say. Must not involve Counter Strike BotParty Reference.
supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too... Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we? Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk. rofl. IGÇÖll take this, you hit me in the kisser, hit all of us in the kisser. See how long it takes till they come and rant. I know this wonGÇÖt happen; CCP has too many people holding that coffer to let them get mad.
okst666 wrote:Haqar wrote:OR.....you fc yourself.... I do not want to be responsible for any ship losses. In fact I want the total opposite..I want someone to blame and shout at about ship losses! Even better if it would be an npc..so it is CCP's fault again. This is What IGÇÖm talking about! This is why we donGÇÖt have people running Assaults or HQs. No one will nut up and take the lead. The same comment of GÇ£not everyone will follow a knuckle dragger of a person with a few Bil under their pants.GÇ¥ stands but, the other comment still stands true. And this GÇ£knuckle draggerGÇ¥ is the last guy I want leading me.
Post 4 V |
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:40:00 -
[138] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:- let the sec status of the Incursion system drop by 0.2 every 24 hours after the MOM has spawned - no CONCORD in Incursion systems - HTFU Warmonger STFU! /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something not involving warmongering to say.
Post 5: More ranting later. Page 5 and 6 to come. V Thank you for reading. |
JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:58:00 -
[139] - Quote
Scouts - Make them worth doing. Something that a fleet of maybe 5 people would do instead of 10.
Vanguards - Nerf the payout a bit.
Assaults/HQ - Buff the payout a bit.
That would be a good start. |
Aedin Dallocort
Fantabulously Terrific Wonderment
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 05:42:00 -
[140] - Quote
Incursions are the best PVE content in EVE. Do it right, and youGÇÖll get new players. Do it wrong, and youGÇÖll lose players. Tread carefully.
Specific Suggestions:
Changes should be made in context of the story.
1) Scout Sites: Dramatically increase the value of Scout sites. Scout sites should alert Sansha to the presence and strength of their opponents. If too many scout sites are run successfully, the mother ship does not appear and the incursion ends.
2) Vanguard sites: These should be balanced, but only within the context of the incursion. The payout for Vanguard sites should not be decreased, but their frequency of those sites. This will encourage competition and reduce blitzing/farming. The number of Vanguard sites completed should reduce the system penalties. The penalties should not be reset after downtime. (Ideally, penalties should be reduced to 0 before the mother ship appears, but Vanguards should have no direct influence on when that happens).
3) Assault and HQ sites: These sites should trigger the appearance of the mother ship (assuming the scout sites havenGÇÖt been blitzed). The mother ship should appear when a fixed (random?) number of Assaults and HQ sites have been completed. (suggestion: 1 point for assaults, 2 points for HQ. Mother ship appears when RND*50+51 points have been accumulated)
4) Mother ship sites: The presence of the mother ship decreases the systemGÇÖs security status gradually. If the mother ship is not killed right away, some of the lower security systems in the constellation may go turn to low sec. Affected systems security status gradually recovers after an incursion as Concord re-establishes control.
Some minor changes should be implemented to make these sites more interesting:
1) Rats should be able to warp out of the site to be repaired unless they are appropriately tackled. This will create a more PVP style environment.
2) Spawns should have random triggers and random fleet composition. The probability of a spawn should be proportional to the importance of a particular ship in the rat fleet. The difficulty of the site should fall within a range of total hit points of all of the rats.
3) The difficulty of the site should fall within a range of total hit points of all of the rats.
4) Sites should be difficult enough that some players will lose their ships. Optimal player fleet composition (in terms of survivability) should decrease payout. Suboptimal composition increases payout.
5) Alpha strikes are an acceptable tactic to inflict damage to player fleets. After all, thatGÇÖs how PVP works, right?
The Long View:
Introduce Blood Raider, Gurista, Serpentis, and Angel Incursions in High Sec. Also, introduce Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, and Amar faction incursions in Low Sec. Allow these incursions to change the sec status of the affected system permanently (or at least until the next incursion).
Null Sec should be similarly affected by incursions. The presence of Sovereignty increases the likelihood of an Incursion. Incursions should be capable of changing the political map (NPC Space and Alliance controlled space alike). Faction aligned corporations should be able to assist the incursion rats.
Traditional missions should be replaced with mini incursions. L1 is soloable by new players. L2 is soloable by intermediate players or small gangs of new players. L3s can be completed by small gangs of intermediate players or medium gangs of new players. L4s require medium gangs of intermediate players. L5s require capital ship support. The number of missions completed increases (or decreases) the likelihood of the occurrence of an incursion.
Sleeper incursions can take out the occupants of wormholes. Also, sleepers, who are mildly annoyed with the activities of human infidels can stage incursions where their WHGÇÖs spawn and change the sec status to null/unoccupied.
Just some random thoughts. IGÇÖve been thinking about this way too long.
|
|
Captain Rivel
SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 05:46:00 -
[141] - Quote
PART 1:
The incursion system launched very successfully and treated EVE players to a game mechanic that was long overdue. Just like any well thought out project, the launch is always just the beginning. The original concept of incursions brings players together to overcome the greatest pve challenge in game. This mechanic was also designed to reward all types of eve players: carebears, pirates and pvpers alike. Just like any good project, there needs to be an active oversight to continue and expand upon the initial launch.
Incursions 2.0 is not a plan to nerf or modify incursions, it's designed to expand incursions into something better. CCP has taken a leap forward by introducing Incursions. To limit its growth by "nerfing/adjusting" it will ruin Incursions forever. This type of action need to be in the foreground, they can't be allowed to sit on the back burner and be forgotten like so many features in EVE have been before.
In order to explain what Incursions 2.0 is, the issues with incursions as they are now need to be identified. Only then can they be fixed.
Incursion Issues - 1. ISK per hour is backwards: The quickest, smallest fleets are making more then the larger fleets.
2. Motivation to complete larger sites are lacking: Fewer fleets are actively taking down larger sites, several factors cause this.
3. Larger fleets are harder to maintain: Larger fleets sometimes have to pause running after every site to replace pilots.
4. Sites were made as a testing sample: Many kinds of sites to run, but they haven't been modified/replaced.
5. Site mechanics need to have variables: The same site does the same thing every single time.
6. Site difficulty doesn't scale correctly (fleet comp): Some fleets find sites challenging while others breeze through them.
7. Incursion completion requirements are broken: A single fleet can end an incursion regardless of previous involvement.
8. ISK is a primary reward: Rewarded with income rather then goods in which the player market can place a value on.
9. Loyalty Points are almost guaranteed: Almost never are high sec incursions not completed. The LP pool isn't at risk.
10. Risk vs Reward isn't balanced: Compared to the difficulty of incursions over other EVE mechanics, the reward out-weighs the risk.
Incursion fixes -
- Revamp the reward system
Addresses: 1, 2, 8, 9, 10
Solution: ISK is the primary medium in which products in EVE are exchanged. It has a fairly standard exchange rate with products giving it an implied value. When an NPC spawns ISK as a reward, it gives those players the implied value of ISK. This would be fine if the amount of ISK matched the difficulty in which the task was completed. In the case of incursions, this is skewed which causes problems with the value of ISK. The counter to ISK is products, these products can be valued by players and will exchange them for ISK. Thus leaving the value of incursions up to the market. The amount a fleet is rewarded is also skewed in relation to the fleet size and time it takes to complete a site. The reward per hour is backwards and doesn't scale properly. Head Quarter fleets should receive the highest reward per hour, not Vanguards. The way to fix these problems are to change the primary payout to something other then ISK (LP, item drops, etc.) and then increase the payouts for Assaults and Headquarters. Thus fixing the imbalance of ISK and backwards growth as sites increase.
- Revamp the Sites/AI Addresses: 2, 4, 5, 6
Solution: Every single site needs to be reviewed and modified as needed. There are several sites that should be either removed, or replaced, with a completely new one. The sites that are currently in play look like a sample tray on a menu. Sites need to play more into the lore of incursions giving players better insight and more/new objectives to complete. Similarly, site spawns need to have some variables within them, no site should have the same exact spawns every single time in the same order, nor should they be completely random. Have different types of waves spawn with different roles. These roles could be attack focused, defensive/avoid focused, ewar focused etc. This requires the fleet to pay attention and react based on whats in front of them, not just go through the motions like they are now. The site difficulty should scale within a fleet size, meaning there should be Hard/Harder/Hardest sites for each of the fleet sizes (Vanguards/Assaults/HQs). Right now fleets can be tailor made to run from site to site with ease, while more standard fleets struggle. Having certain sites that spawn for only the strongest fleets gives normal running fleets less issues finding sites.
continued in part 2 |
Captain Rivel
SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 05:46:00 -
[142] - Quote
Part 2
- Reformat Incursion system Addresses: 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10
Solution: This one is the big one and requires some extra explaining. It also ties in with the previous solutions to make Incursions now a meer shadow of what Incursions 2.0 offers. Sansha currently takes control of a constellation claiming a single system as its head quarters and branches out from there. Once the influence bar for the whole constellation reaches a certain point, the flagship spawns and a single fleet strong enough to take it down can end the Incursion. Mechanicly this is a poor system designed to end incursions very quickly and story wise it makes Sansha look like an idiot. Incursions are a foothold and if Sanshas current plans aren't working he would expand on them. The incursion itself will fight to stay there and it will require players to work together in order to bring them down. Incursion footholds would still take over an entire constellation, but instead of every system have a certain type of incursion site, they all start off as Vanguards, (Sansha has the stronger beacons cloaked). The first fleets on the scene start taking down sites and small 10 man fleets wipe out waves and waves of sites. Eventually the vanguard sites in a given system stop spawning and Assault sites take over. If small gang fleets wish to continue running Vanguards they need to find another system in the constellation. Eventually all Vanguard sites with in the constellation will be completed and only larger sites will remain. This forces fleets to merge and take on larger challenges. Once the Assault sites stop spawning Headquarters will eventually spawn bringing in even larger fleets and merging more fleets. By this time there are several large fleets taking down sites or even competing compared to a single Assault/HQ fleet running in incursions like it is currently. Each system will have its own special site, either a mothership site or something simular which only spawns once the headquarters are finished. When the special site is completed that entire system locks down and no incursion sites will spawn for several hours. Forcing players to move to another system within the constellation and continue their fleets there. If enough systems with in the constellation are locked down Sansha will bring in their flagship, this will either be a Mothership site, or something new, and only once this site is finished will there be an end to the incursion. Now if a system lock down timer expires before the final site is finished, the system resets back to vanguards and the process needs to start over. This makes it far more difficult for a community to take down an incursion, impossible for a single fleet.
- Overall effect/Closing notes:
With the combination of these changes players are rewarded with fun and challenging content with high value, but fair rewards that turn incursions into an actual event rather then a mindless farm. Incursions being completed would no longer be a guarantee, and the high value loyalty points will be at risk. This forces teamwork and coordination in order to get rewarded for the time invested. It also protects players who invest their time from having the reward taken away as easly as it can be now. This may not be the perfect fix for incursions, but it is thought out and it will make them far better. Don't 'fix' a problem by making small changes and nerfs when the game mechanic itself is broken. CCP should have contacted its players sooner about incursions as it will take a lot of time and effort to make changes to this well deserving mechanic to EVE Online.
- Disclaimer
These suggestions are made by a single incursion vet, while supported by others it does not, nor claims to, represent the incursion communities thoughts on how to change incursions. If you support this suggestion or any other suggestion posted on this forum, make sure you let CCP know. |
Keith Planck
The Great and Powerful Corporation
55
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 05:53:00 -
[143] - Quote
AND MY AX! |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:03:00 -
[144] - Quote
Valentine V wrote: The people running Level 4 missions can pull about, donGÇÖt know from personal experience but from reading from other people asking, about 30-40Mil. Looking at the math an ok Vanguard FG can pull about 5-6 VGs in an hour, with Bio and refilling the fleet on players. That comes out to 50-60Mil, and with the added benefit of what CCP wanted with bringing people together. Missions can be done AFK, and done on auto pilot. If someone messes up and doesnGÇÖt follow the FC, the entire fleet can fall due to NPCGÇÖs out DPSing the logi.
With a T2 fit sentry domi (AB no MWD) and negotiations and security connections at III, I can pull around 30-40m hour in a level IV. Probably can pull it a bit more as of raising those skills to IV but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet (maybe Friday). Right now I'm doing industry and just running missions for a bit of petty cash, if I get more into missioning I'll probably add some faction gear.
Yeah I have bittervett level SPs, just not in agent skills. |
Bump Tremor
Tremor Recorded Variable Enterprise Training Standards
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:04:00 -
[145] - Quote
Captain Rivel - as always, you have nailed it!!!
I might have missed it - payout at mom death of some other event,,, DT?
|
Captain Rivel
SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bump Tremor wrote:Captain Rivel - as always, you have nailed it!!!
I might have missed it - LP payout at mom death of some other event,,, DT?
LP would still be paid out once the incursion ends, the point is to make ending an incursion far more difficult |
Bump Tremor
Tremor Recorded Variable Enterprise Training Standards
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:32:00 -
[147] - Quote
Good, my antennae went up when I read reverting back to VGs. By not getting the payout till the mom dies, the incentive is there to kill and not just keep reverting back to VGs ad infinitum - Well done!
|
Glomondon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:40:00 -
[148] - Quote
1. - Increase payouts for assault and HQ sites 2. - Decrease payouts for vanguards
Its not "healthy" when 10 pilot fleets earns sooo much more than 20-40 man fleets. |
Tore Vest
156
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 06:59:00 -
[149] - Quote
I dont understad those that says that vanguards are to easy... Yes... vanguards are easy when you have your fleet rigth... and do things rigth But things can go wrong realy fast... Someone not do what told.. maby not looking,someone dc, and billions go poof... Myself... I have lost billions in ships on incursions... ( played it since start tho)
So...highsec incursions are NOT risk free isk..
And then we have those gankers... Highsec carebear... and proud of it |
Sheol Duncan
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 07:03:00 -
[150] - Quote
I read the first half of the thread and I bring something that none those posts had. I run, full time, null and low security incursions and I want to share a little bit of our experience. As we operate very differently than those that run high security incursions.
There are a lot of people that are saying that incursions should be nerfed to payout in accordance with level four missions. I think this is wrong. Group pve content should always be rewarded more than solo pve content. This is an MMORPG, where there is emphasis on playing with a group, therefore group content should be inventivized. Additionally, there is a lot more effort and coordination that goes putting together an active fleet for running incursions. That effort should be rewarded or people aren't going to be willing to put the effort in. It's a lot easier for me to run sanctums in nullsec than to travel around lowsec bouncing between incursions, but the added money incursions bring in makes it worth it. Assault and Headquarters sites should be buffed to reflect the increased logistics required to run them with increased fleet sizes.
There should be risk. Lowsec incursions come with a great deal of risk. We fly expensive ships and are always at risk of running into gangs, we take steps to minimize this risk but we can never eliminate it entirely. It's not that uncommon for us to lose ships. High sec incursion runners are able to run without any of this risk which leads to the "shininess" of their fleets, we would never fly the sorts of gangs you find in high security. full of faction battleships and such, as its too much to risk losing. I'd encourage devs to place rats similar to those found in lowsec and nullsec incursion on gates, that is a simple way of making it more dangerous for those not paying attention. Additionally, the security status of incursion systems should be lowered to 0.5 to make ganking those shiny ships easier.
Please don't put motherships on a timer. In nullsec, incursions cause all sorts of logistical problems for alliances. They deactivate jump bridges, they cyno jam systems, and generally make the lives of people who do alliance logistics (people who already should be considered saints) miserable. There have been many incursions where we have had to run down and headshot the mothership because it was causing problems. We've headshot incursions that were in inconvenient locations in order to force the spawn of a new one. We've had other alliances headshot our incursions and ruin our fun. Additionally, I think that having the ability to deny people incursions adds an interesting layer of politics to the game. We've recently seen Brick Squad holding ransom the incursion runners for whatever the weird demands they were making were. This is cool, it adds realism to the game; people can make decisions that effect other people. To allow high sec runners to be able to defend their incursions, I'd suggest deactivating Concord in the mothership site. That way they would be able to organize and engage a fleet trying to kill the mothership. As of now they have no defense.
Give us random spawns, while it's nice to be able to know exactly what you need to do to blitz the site, it's mind-numbing doing it for hours. Random spawns will allow some manner of variance between sites, which I'd embrace.
Balance the sites within each level of encounter. Mining Colonies are by far the slowest vanguard site, there have been other complaints about the Assault sites being unbalanced. They should all take about the same amount of time, and therefore give the same reward.
|
|
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
609
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 07:09:00 -
[151] - Quote
Wow Captain... That is a well thought out idea! Many times better than the calls to "NERF INCURSIONS NAO!!!"
Now maybe we can have a real discussion on fixing this instead of the BS others are pushing in the name of "fixing it" trying to disguise a desire to kill incursions completely. |
Frank Pannon
Fearless Bandits Sk33t Fl33t
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 07:13:00 -
[152] - Quote
I support Captain Rivel's elaborate plan. Really well thought out and explained. Can only second, do not nerf, but improve and make it an even better experience for players.
One addition:
It seems silly to me that you can pass through these incursion system unharmed without getting any problems at the gates. Incursions should have a bigger effect on economy, by also disrupting transport routes. Rats at gates would require even more collaboration between players to ensure trade flow through these systems. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 08:49:00 -
[153] - Quote
I always thought that the problem with hisec incursions is the absurd risk:reward ratio? why all this complex solution? the more changes and the more complex the changes should be, the more issues that will come out later on and the same rage towards incursions will pops out. People will always find a way around changes in mechanics for the amount of isk incursions generate. Why not address the problem directly and let players decide how it will be?
Remove CONCORD from Incursion staging sites. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
525
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 09:19:00 -
[154] - Quote
Darius III wrote: ... I think that no group of players should have that much power over so many people, by exerting such little effort....
Null
|
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 09:24:00 -
[155] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I appreciate what you're trying to do, CCP Grayscale, but you do know that this thread will only draw every single troll, incursion-hater, and whining incursion-runner that have until now been starting their own threads, right? I don't expect very much "thoughtful" discussion, myself.
However, I will contribute what is my layman's perspective (never having run incursions). The main issue appears to be people being able to "extend" incursions to farm Vanguard sites over and over, which have very high payout. For an activity done in high-sec, and with little risk of losing your ship to unexpected circumstances (no PvP), the amount of money is too high. "Too high" as in "higher than most other activities in all regions of space, including those with a significant degree of risk of sudden pew pew".
A simple fix would be to have incursions "dry up". CONCORD doesn't print money just to pay capsuleers (hopefully) and it makes no sense for Sansha to keep sending troops into the meatgrinder of Vanguard sites if they are getting utterly destroyed. Have the CONCORD rewards for a particular site decrease with the number of those types of sites that have been run in the incursion, or have the number of site spawns decrease. That would give people a reason to kill the mothership and allow a new incursion to respawn elsewhere.
Sorry I can't offer "little things", as I don't do incursions myself yet. I just trained Logi though, so who knows, I might get into it.
OK, to apply that across the board... how many times would the 'damsel in distress'' get kidnapped by the same bloke who you have killed over and over but just seems to come back....
Those things that come to mind... broaden them a little |
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 09:36:00 -
[156] - Quote
gfldex wrote:One player told me he used to bot before Incursions. So Incursions is even better then botting.
Oh dear.. the nasty sansha incursions actually stopped someone botting? that cant be a good thing... |
Glomondon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 09:56:00 -
[157] - Quote
Stop incursions. save the bots !!!!! |
Blade Murderhorn
xLegion of the dammedx.
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 10:42:00 -
[158] - Quote
My suggestions as follows:
1# Make the payout equal accross the board, 50-60mil an hour seems like a good figure, this would mean lowering the payout on VG and upping it on the harder sites, also make the scout site worth doing, up the reward (allowing smaller fleets to get in on the action will make them even better), all of these sites should be run not just the vangards. people fleeting up and running incursions has been the best thing to happen in highsec other then the live events (also do more live events!)
2# the mother ship should be on a timer not a percentage done, at the moment casual players are missing out because sites are being closed quickly (since the incursions griefing started i have not managed to do an incursion at all due to limited playtime and i bet im not the only one...), this should be a feature that all players can use casual and hardcore alike! this time should be around 4 days? this would allow sufficient time for people to get there and enjoy it.
3# sansha should spawn at the belts, gates and the stations, killing these rats should earn a little LP this would mean that you would get small groups securing the systems as such so that people can still pass through, this would be a bonus to the RP side. these rats should not be as hard as in the sites but should still be a challange (also of course they shouldent scram in highsec or be able to alpha a hauler...)
for all of the people saying get rid of highsec incursions this is a silly idea, incursions have been the best thing to happen to highsec ever... It gets people to together changing this would be a step backwards.... |
John Maynard Keynes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 10:54:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi, I'm making this thread on behalf of CCP Bettik, who is a very shy and retiring dev and doesn't like to post much on the forums As mentioned in the CSM minutes, we're looking into making various adjustments to Incursions in the coming months. This thread is primarily to collect suggestions for "little things"-style fixes we can make to Incursions to make the user experience better. Additionally, if you have any especially well thought-out feedback about the feature as a whole, and particularly about specific things you feel are wrong with the current implementation, go ahead and share those too! CCP Bettik will be reading every single page of this thread in the coming weeks, but he doesn't like to make the posts - don't worry if there's a lack of visible dev presence in the thread, your opinions will be heard regardless Thanks for listening, -Greyscale
Why do high sec carebears go to low-, null-sec and WH? Because of the higher income despite the hifher risk! (ok null is actually safer than high-sec)
However, highsec incursion destroy the incentives to move out of high. I know many 0.0 dweller who go to hifg-sec to farm incursions and come only to pvp. This is ridiculous!
Solution: Make incursons a low-sec only event. Furthermore, make sanshas within sites attack capsuleers with criminal flag first! So that it becomes difficult to gank inurson fleets within sites but still possible to catch people at the gates and so on. + gives an enormous and much desired boost to low sec + pirates get someone to play with + Carebears who want to have a higher income will have to learn to pvp or to higher mercs who would protect their farming op. - bitte tears from some high sec carebears who think eve is WoW in space and that incursions are raids. + For CCP: You distinguish your product from all the 08/15 MMOs where you simply grind stuff all day long. Which means less competition. + for Factional Warfare: FW Alliances will (sometimes) compete with null-sec gangs who will certainly try to farm low-sec incursions. + FW alliances will get additional inflow of members who want to run incursions but lack a proper organisational structure
And before people start to cry. For some reason people were happy to farm WHs even though it is quite risky.
P.S: It would actually solve many problems in this game. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
74
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 10:56:00 -
[160] - Quote
To me an incursion should be a race of who gets the mom first and the rest should be just a bonus of working towards finding the mothership though increasingly difficult sites, not just farming vanguards with full steam ahead and glasez eyes. |
|
The Snowman
xLegion of the dammedx.
24
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:02:00 -
[161] - Quote
ffs, there is already another thread that CCP have been directing us too for the past few weeks cant you just read that one instead of spamming the forums with yet more threads |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:09:00 -
[162] - Quote
DooDoo Gum wrote: OK, to apply that across the board... how many times would the 'damsel in distress'' get kidnapped by the same bloke who you have killed over and over but just seems to come back....
The damsel doesn't really get kidnapped, she really wants to be there getting banged by Krull, Zor and company. No wonder she's so annoyed when you blow up the pleasure gardens.
|
Kwa Zulu
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:18:00 -
[163] - Quote
Remove Incursions from high sec, period |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
138
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:43:00 -
[164] - Quote
I've never done an incursion but the fact that they have been designed to allow people to far for isk doesn't seem like a good feature. So change the payout system to prevent this.
I don't have a problem with incursion runners and i see them as actually providing a service by clearing Sansha from a system. But some of the incursion fleets are extremely elitist and will not allow new players to join in, so if there is a way for this to be changed, that would be good for the community.
|
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
353
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 11:49:00 -
[165] - Quote
I posted this originally is some other thread, but I thought of an idea.
Eliminate the HQ site, make the mothership just start hotdropping people who are currently running sites. Make it slightly harder to spawn her. When she hotdrops someone, it would either be the sites with the lowest # of people(in theory the lowest level sites currently being run) to push people into the higher paying sites, til they are at a critical mass to actually stay and fight, or the ones with the most people(because the mothership would go for the biggest threat to the incursion first), which would break up fleets til people were ready to band together and fight. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Jalmari Huitsikko
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:16:00 -
[166] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I've never done an incursion but the fact that they have been designed to allow people to far for isk doesn't seem like a good feature. So change the payout system to prevent this.
I don't have a problem with incursion runners and i see them as actually providing a service by clearing Sansha from a system. But some of the incursion fleets are extremely elitist and will not allow new players to join in, so if there is a way for this to be changed, that would be good for the community.
I think you're missing whole point that for incursions you must band together with people and train right skills for your character not just hop on random BTL fleet waiting for you. It's not much different than forming a pvp fleet. You really need people with right skills and right ships otherwise it's just random ball which dies horribly.
Other than that - I think current situtation shows what's been problem for long time which is that rewards for finishing incursions are not good enough. VG's could use a tiny weeny bit of tuning down (either rewards or make sites more difficult/variable) and I personally think moving from VG fleet to Assault fleet should be more easy like there should be something like one more level for sites which is meant for fleet size from 11 to 15 people or so. Also lowest level sites are a joke. There probably should be one more level for 3-6 people too or whatsoever. This way it would be easy to get fleet going and keep gathering more people while running the fleet and eventually end up killing mom. |
Horus upercal
Traveler 52 D-Collective
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
right this is coming from my point of view here as i do run incursions but also go pvp'ing on a regular basis i run incursions for 2 reasons 1 unlike most here i cannot afford a subscription so for my to play i need to plex my accounts and incursion running is the easiest way to do that not to mention the security status which i use for pvp'ing low sec that comes with it 2 so that when i do go pvp'ing i have the amounts of isk that allow me to do so but the primary reason is so that i can plex the 2 accounts i have were it not for being able to run in incursions i would not be able to play this fantasitc game month by month
|
Horus upercal
Traveler 52 D-Collective
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 12:58:00 -
[168] - Quote
now pvp in my opinion is the most fun you can have but to be able to pvp you need to be able to play the game as well as have the ships and equipment to do so and i neither have the time nor patience to make these things so yes i do need isk to be able to afford to do this now most of the time i run in assault's or HQ's but there are times where i need to make isk for a plex rather rapidly as i have had far too much fun pvping and forgotten to run for a few days to get the isk required for a plex whilst still having enough to go pvping.
Now don't get me wrong i do see that some aspects of incursions need re-balancing and imho vanguards need to be made more difficult not hae the payout nerf'd as i am sure a lot like me run the incursions to go pvp'ing and plex accounts if you start removing the isk reward people will simply stop doing them this is one of the many reasons i don't go to live events because there is no form of reward for doing them and for those of you that are say that it should only be lp that i awarded look at how the lp market has crashed already
previously i bought 6% implants and tried to sell them as it stands everyone thinks why should i buy it when i can get it from the lp store. |
Glomondon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:23:00 -
[169] - Quote
Kwa Zulu wrote:Remove Incursions from high sec, period Remove RAZOR from eve, period |
ShipToaster
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:41:00 -
[170] - Quote
Make a situation similar to FW where players can declare for CONCORD or SANSHA. If you are not on CONCORD's side then you get no bounties or LP. You know what the SANSHA sympathisers can do
Every problem solved.[
Might as well post this here too. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |
|
ShipToaster
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 14:00:00 -
[171] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Darius III wrote: Psychopathic crap You speak for no one who runs Incursions. And given your past tag lines where you slag CCP ad nauseam, I doubt they will listen to you either.
As you gain more experience in EVE you will realise there are :ccp: and CCP.
CCP are the visionary company who gave us this great game and made it badass, nasty and HTFU. They give it to us straight,
:ccp: are the ones who want it to be space barbie and rewrite the foundation of EVE simply for greed. They dont release the minutes until they have been sanitised.
We cant ******* stand :ccp: but love CCP. Get it now? Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |
Haqar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 14:12:00 -
[172] - Quote
Darius III wrote: Mission is successful. Many thank yous to the incursion guys for sharing their ideas and input with us. I forwarded your ideas to CCP. Even more thanks to the pilots who come out and destroy the Motherships time after time. YOU guys applied the pressure to force meaningful dialogue. The players made this happen for their own reasons.// I do not think that we should be able to form up 40 guys and deny content for thousands of people day after day. I think that no group of players should have that much power over so many people, by exerting such little effort. Pretty sure no one will believe me on this next point, but here goes anyway. I also wanted to do my part to try to ensure that the nerf/changes to Incursions were not too extreme against Incursions, nor too light. Telling you guys "I did this to help you" will doubtless be received a either a troll or a slap in the face to the uninformed. I am linking some of the dialogue I had with a few of the luminaries from BTL/TDF. I had 20+ conversations with the folks who organize a large portion of Incurions but the most productive/informative one is linked here. Hopefully we will see Incursions get rebalanced fairly and in a way that the majority of players agree with-both Incursion runners and the rest of Eve. It was necessary to halt incursions to force meaningful dialogue, and with luck everything will turn out for the best for as many players as possible. Skunkworks, Kill It With Fire, Brick volunteers, the good people who joined our fleets and Krissada: My sincere thanks, what you have been able to accomplish is almost unprecedented in Eve. I stand in awe of your combined efforts and leadership. See you in fleet on Tuesday?
yea yea blah blah.
I have read it and no you dont know **** yet, atleast not from that convo. Al i saw is some incusrions vets yapping true eachother and not really saying anyting usefull. If you seriously think they know what they are on about .... well your a lost cause ...
Dont get me wrong i know them and do respect them, you too prolly since i dont know you but do i have an open mind. But they are already living in low or null sec like yourself, so maby, just maby yall are out of touch with the persons that enter the game and are playing in high sec.
After doing the tutorials and run missions till you can dream them at lvl 4, people want something else. So they go mining or run incursions, due to "omg you not shiney" whining that goes on in atleast btl, new channels where formed and stuff was sorted out. Now incursions are not for the 'new noob', let that be said, or they shouldnt be. Imo incursions are for those that dont want to go low or null sec but like to play something more difficult then the same missions over and over again. Note that after a year of fcing incurions, i did assault, hq and moms they get as repetitive as missions.
So what needs to be changed if anything? Well people that play a different branche of the game shouldnt be allowed to **** off this side of the game, just because they can. As far as i know incursions where intended as a means to get groups of people working together and play together as randomly as possible and since they are both in low and highsec its for everyone in their respective area's. Trying to get carebears to move to low or null, wont happen, trust me, it wont. Sitewise, its an idea if the time invested to form a fleet in order to run a site is equally rewarded payout wise, that i think has been said more then once in this thread. So besides all the good idea's beeing metioned here, having low/nullsec player disrupting the carebears way of doing things just because they can/ beeing pised about how carebears farm incursions/ or having different agenda's due to elections, is whole different set of tears then the obvious: "omg i killed your mom, now you cant farm bwahahaha....let me blue the wrecks while im at it to create so much lag you people will die too hahahah"...thats just grieving, sorry it is. While you have your ass back in low or null wherever you tend to play, how about you farm them there and do the same as the bears do? Problem solved. Also try to find your backbone again will ya? Going:" Well i really wanted to stop this but umm tdf walked away from the table so now i must go on", is as pathetic as a 3 year old whining on whatever they whine about
So when/if you actually can get serious about this and want to know about things that might need some chaging, find me, untill then you just the next troll as mentioned in that convo, been there done that more then once already, your not that special darius
Just my 2 cents on this matter
|
Johann Tollefson
OMNI Technologies Ethereal Dawn
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 14:34:00 -
[173] - Quote
1. Balance payouts. Increase Scout and Assault site payout while decreasing Vanguards. I would still have the income for Vanguards be above Lvl4 mission rates, there is the difficulty in finding a fleet and the question of fleet member quality. Not to mention the time spent traveling to the incursion and the increased risk beyond lvl 4 mission running.
2. Variety. Change the design to add a bit more variety. Regardless how profitable they are, the same cycle repeated gets old eventually.
3. Scout Purpose. Give scout sites a purpose, let them be a milder, introductory version of vanguards and assaults that are for 5 man fleets, not just 5 man crap-poor noob fleets. This could be useful on those days when you just can't seem to get a good fleet up or for smaller corps.
4. Impact. There are a few impacts to be felt when the incursion is ongoing but it's not much of a hindrance to most folks. Especially since it ends after a few hours as it stands right now. Make it so that each of the 4 categories takes a full 24 hours of incursions to finally make an impact on with the mom not showing until day 5.
5. Rewards ISK alone is cool, but LP rewards to buy wicked goodies is even neater. A lofty goal for a shiny ship is a good way to spend those LPs. Why not special categories that are named rigs, or fit once only modules?
6. Scale Find a way to encourage other people in lesser ships, or adjust the payout based on the shininess or lack thereof. Maybe a scaled system that Concord uses depending on difficulty. If you complete the site using all shinies there is a 0.8 modifier, but if you complete it using half shinies and half regular hulls that becomes 1.1 modifier. This would encourage fleet variety and the shinies to mix with new folks who are gearing up for it. If you decide to go all shiny fleet you will still complete them quickly, but the payout would be slightly less than if you used a mix. Feeling badass and extra shiny? Complete it using even less ships and have the payout multiplier go up even more.
7. Factions I'd also to like to see additional factions launching there own incursions. With the success that the Sansha are seeing, you'd think the Guristas or Serpentis would get in on the fun.
My time to play EVE is limited and I like to be able to get into a fleet, make some isk, hang out with some people and mostly enjoy myself. There is still risk involved, anytime you fleet up with some unknowns there is a trust factor that may or may not be working with competent members. One bad Logi and you can lose a few shinies quick. |
Carton Mantory
Cult of Baal
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 15:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
Incursions should not be just mission running 2.0 without the agents.
Incursions should be be agent based.
Each system in the constellation should have agents with different missions. You should get empire standing + for the sov holder and + for Concord also the enemies of your sov holder should get - standing.
ex. you running incursions in Amarr you get Minimatar standing hit.
Your agent is specific to the region and constellation. The more missions done the more isk/LP you get.
Have LP loot and salvage high and isk low. Agents can give rewards to the whole fleet.
Incursion missions should take 15minutes.
Gates and asteroid and stations should have Sansha swarming pirates. This is not a safe place for the weak at heart. The faster the incursion goes away the constellation will be happy. People might get paid to close incursions.
All constellations should have incursions possible.
|
Veryez
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 15:32:00 -
[175] - Quote
I am not a 'hard core' incursion runner, at best I have run them once a week, but as a social event. I have run all types of sites except the largest headquarters.
1) Scouts are fine, wouldn't change them in any way.
2) Vanguards are too easy, cookie cutter setups allow easy completion. Payouts are a bit high atm, but I wouldn't adjust them because they are getting people to play the game and band together, which should always be a goal of CCP. Instead what I would do is add a variable where depending on the mass brought it, there is possibility of escallation (much like class 5 & 6 wh's). However the escalation must be random and require different tactics to complete.
For example, most setups in vanguards emphasize close range DPS setups, so the spawn could be long range DPS ships, or logictics, or a combo. In another case Close range ECM and Neut ships w/logistic support. In the final case, close range Very Heavy DPS ships with logistic support. In each case, the spawn would be based on a random number, so you never know which spawn you would get (equal probability of each). Finally vary the mass amount that causes the spawn, make it like X +- a random amount, so that setting up the 'ideal fleet' becomes much harder. The goal should be that a balanced fleet is the most efficient, this will slow down the speed of completing the sites and lower the isk/hr but in a fun way.
3) Assaults need better payouts, as people require far more coordination and effort to complete them. Also Nation Consolidation Network sites need to be reworked. They require a different fleet setup than NCS or OCF. People simply don't run them as nobody bothers bringing multiple types of ships. I like the concept and the idea, but in reality you either run only them, or only NCS and OCF. Changing the one gate to allow BC's and below through would help significantly, (i.e. BC's could go through either side). Also as above I would add a random trigger based on mass. But it's not as crucial in Assaults, as these require a balanced fleet (especially the NCN sites), and far more coordination than Vanguard sites. Perhaps the mass should be limited to capital ships like class 5 & 6 wh's, though I'm not sure if these are even allowed through the gates. Bottom line, overpowering assaults like vanguards doesn't happen.
4) Headquarters need much better payouts, as the amount of coordination involved very significant, adding the variable spawns here would be fun, but the incentive to run them would need to be even higher.
Other thoughts:
Incursions in High Sec need to go back to the original incursion influence rate (Low Sec and Null are fine - don't change them). When incursions first came out, reducing influence, even in High Sec was hard. Perhaps I'm not using the correct term, but the difficulity in reducing influence that High Sec originally had - That rate needs to come back as soon as possible.
I would change the influence penalities across the board in all incursions. They should be more severe, as it currently stands their impact is minimal. I would start by doubling them.
With these two changes, I would agree with making the sites stop once the mothership is sighted. However I would ensure there are a minimum of 2 incursion sites in every type of space after each DT, i.e. 2 in High Sec, 2 in Lo Sec, and 2 in Null (obviously there could be more based on the 7 day timer, but 2 would be minimum) . Why? Because it gets people playing the game - which should be the #1 goal of CCP.
Bottom line, incursions are fun. We use them as a way to bring younger members of the corp into fleets (and be useful) and socializing. It has brought us quite a few members and brought our corp together as a whole. We've even used the same people and the skills they've developed to enter and complete wh sites. From what I've seen, incursions are an extremely valuable tool in bringing the corp/alliance closer together as well as helping develope new player skills. |
Nita Unik
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 15:42:00 -
[176] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
+1 for this method as well |
Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 15:46:00 -
[177] - Quote
1. Stop site spawns after the MOM arrives. 2. Reduce the payout slightly. 3. Significantly increase the risk by adding more variation in the spawns, and adding some more sophisticated AI mechanics like a more focused use of EWAR. For instance AI that focuses TDs on a couple turret based ships would make missile ships a bit more viable in fleets. Maybe have a couple support spawns warp in that will require the fleet to pull range on one spawn to mitigate the damage, and burn the other spawn down in time before the back-up catches up (just sitting in the middle would do too much dps for reps to keep up). ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Akumetsu
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 16:30:00 -
[178] - Quote
Captain Rivel wrote:PART 1:
The incursion system launched very successfully and treated EVE players to a game mechanic that was long overdue. Just like any well thought out project, the launch is always just the beginning. The original concept of incursions brings players together to overcome the greatest pve challenge in game. This mechanic was also designed to reward all types of eve players: carebears, pirates and pvpers alike. Just like any good project, there needs to be an active oversight to continue and expand upon the initial launch.
Incursions 2.0 is not a plan to nerf or modify incursions, it's designed to expand incursions into something better. CCP has taken a leap forward by introducing Incursions. To limit its growth by "nerfing/adjusting" it will ruin Incursions forever. This type of action need to be in the foreground, they can't be allowed to sit on the back burner and be forgotten like so many features in EVE have been before.
In order to explain what Incursions 2.0 is, the issues with incursions as they are now need to be identified. Only then can they be fixed.
Incursion Issues - 1. ISK per hour is backwards: The quickest, smallest fleets are making more then the larger fleets.
2. Motivation to complete larger sites are lacking: Fewer fleets are actively taking down larger sites, several factors cause this.
3. Larger fleets are harder to maintain: Larger fleets sometimes have to pause running after every site to replace pilots.
4. Sites were made as a testing sample: Many kinds of sites to run, but they haven't been modified/replaced.
5. Site mechanics need to have variables: The same site does the same thing every single time.
6. Site difficulty doesn't scale correctly (fleet comp): Some fleets find sites challenging while others breeze through them.
7. Incursion completion requirements are broken: A single fleet can end an incursion regardless of previous involvement.
8. ISK is a primary reward: Rewarded with income rather then goods in which the player market can place a value on.
9. Loyalty Points are almost guaranteed: Almost never are high sec incursions not completed. The LP pool isn't at risk.
10. Risk vs Reward isn't balanced: Compared to the difficulty of incursions over other EVE mechanics, the reward out-weighs the risk.
Incursion fixes -
- Revamp the reward system
Addresses: 1, 2, 8, 9, 10
Solution: ISK is the primary medium in which products in EVE are exchanged. It has a fairly standard exchange rate with products giving it an implied value. When an NPC spawns ISK as a reward, it gives those players the implied value of ISK. This would be fine if the amount of ISK matched the difficulty in which the task was completed. In the case of incursions, this is skewed which causes problems with the value of ISK. The counter to ISK is products, these products can be valued by players and will exchange them for ISK. Thus leaving the value of incursions up to the market. The amount a fleet is rewarded is also skewed in relation to the fleet size and time it takes to complete a site. The reward per hour is backwards and doesn't scale properly. Head Quarter fleets should receive the highest reward per hour, not Vanguards. The way to fix these problems are to change the primary payout to something other then ISK (LP, item drops, etc.) and then increase the payouts for Assaults and Headquarters. Thus fixing the imbalance of ISK and backwards growth as sites increase.
- Revamp the Sites/AI Addresses: 2, 4, 5, 6
Solution: Every single site needs to be reviewed and modified as needed. There are several sites that should be either removed, or replaced, with a completely new one. The sites that are currently in play look like a sample tray on a menu. Sites need to play more into the lore of incursions giving players better insight and more/new objectives to complete. Similarly, site spawns need to have some variables within them, no site should have the same exact spawns every single time in the same order, nor should they be completely random. Have different types of waves spawn with different roles. These roles could be attack focused, defensive/avoid focused, ewar focused etc. This requires the fleet to pay attention and react based on whats in front of them, not just go through the motions like they are now. The site difficulty should scale within a fleet size, meaning there should be Hard/Harder/Hardest sites for each of the fleet sizes (Vanguards/Assaults/HQs). Right now fleets can be tailor made to run from site to site with ease, while more standard fleets struggle. Having certain sites that spawn for only the strongest fleets gives normal running fleets less issues finding sites.
continued in part 2
I Support Captain Rivel. |
Karl Weyland
Pilots of Epic Silent Infinity
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 17:02:00 -
[179] - Quote
Is it possible to work on some sort of system to form fleets?
As of now, people are stuck in channels posting up fits for specific fleets and such. It can be a small annoyance as both FC and the ones searching for fleets. Some go unheard as chats would be mixing with fit links and there is often a new fit linked every 1 to 2 seconds in the bigger incursion running groups.
I was hoping for some sort of window, similar to the new Corporation Recruitment window, visable to everyone at all times. Here, you can post the ship you are using, type of fleet you are looking for (Armour, Shield) and the site you want to run. The FC's should then be able to sort though this list by ship type, site they are interested in etc. The 'applications' should also have a link to their fit and a button for invite to fleet. Once in a fleet, they are removed from this list. it doesn't make much sense to me why this has to be done through chat channels. This would also help the ones newer to incursions to find a fleet, as I am sure not all of them even know of the big or small groups that run them.
Hope I explained that well. I am sure that the idea could even be improved a lot, but hey! it's something along the lines of what I would like to see.
Thanks. |
Graeme Rowney
Revenge of the Noobs Mortal Destruction
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 17:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
I would like to note that this is the second time i wrote this because when using the IGB clicking post refreshed the page.
First and formost i am / used to be an incursion runner. They were fun and they made good isk. I now use the money i made from them to do the more fun things in eve like pvp. However i do see the issue that people abuse them and make insane amounts ov money because they spend so much time using them.
Basically my plan is two fold only read the point if you only care about the changes and not the reason for them.
Fold 1
The issue ov the mom site is a big one once again in eve a monopoly has formed and some people think they have the right to claim it as there own and refuse people entry and tarnish there reputation even if they are perfectly legitamate( BTL banning people for running mom sites without permisson ). I see why they do this and total understand its for the good of the community but its not right.
Fold 1 (The point)
Introduce a timer to the whole incursion call it 3-4 days once that time is up the mom spawns and all other sites stop spawning, people in the middle of a site will still get paid for the site they have done but no new sites ov any kind will spawn. This timer should be visible that way you get people scrambaling to get the sites towards the end. In order to encourage a race to the end there could be small increase in payout towards the end not much but enough that people want to do them more. When the mom site spawns people will then rush to form a fleet to kill it off and there will no longer be a reason fro people to stop people doing the incursion. Fold 2
Another issue is those with lots of free time farming the crap out of the sites. Making insane amounts of isk and lp. Where this can be good when its you making isk and in my opinion is a good thing for the economy, and eve in general as it means that people have money to do more things. It seems however that the superpowers are unhappy with this as it means smaller groups maybe able to build up and finally contest them.
Fold 2 (The point)
There should be a limit to the amount of isk and i say isk because i mean isk lp should keep going. If there is a total amount of isk that each incursion pays each account. Once you get all your money from the incursion you will only get lp for running them. So you can either go spend your money or you can keep going to and make less money.
This should fix incursions however i think that there needs to be more fleet pve stuff somthing for 'carebears' to make money together missions just arnt good enough for that. |
|
Caldari Acolyte
Perkone Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 17:20:00 -
[181] - Quote
Take incursions outta the game completely, no matter what CCP does it won't be good enough, people will still cry, the game survived without it, infact it was better without it. |
carmelos53
OMG totally awesome corp of one Burning Spear.
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 17:36:00 -
[182] - Quote
This is a 100% fix for incursions for both high sec, low and null. CCP I really hope this catches your eyes. On this char I've run at least 5000 incursion sites. That's all this char does.
***EXPLOIT OF MOM SPAWN*** ??? Okay let's be honest... it's not an exploit. If people think it's unfair to not kill the mom for an extra 48 hours fine. My suggested solution:
-->Random diviation timers - the mom spawns in a time frame within 2 to 3 days (randomly) regardless of sansha influence. If you let the mom spawn the second the influence bar hits 0% than the mom dies in 5 hours like it does today. This is a big issue especially when it takes time to make the LARGER sized fleets which means MORE PEOPLE WILL WANT TO RUN VANGUARDS. The end game of incursions shouldn't be focused on vanguards ***fix suggestions on that below** --> Now CCP needs to be VERY CAREFUL HERE - some people are suggesting that 'ONCE THE MOM SPAWNS ALL OTHER SITES STOP SPAWNING". Let me point out why that is a TERRIBLE IDEA. If the mom happens to spawn after downtime the influence for sansha is at 100%. Try killing a mom with 100% sansha influence. Your 80 man fleet won't make it out or be able to complete the site. Every single pilot would be slaughtered. CCP needs to make sure other sites are still able to be run while the mom has spawned. --> Lastly, HOLD OFF THE ISK PAYOUT UNTIL THE INCURSION IS COMPLETED!!!!!!!!!! This will force people to have to kill the mom and not simply continue running sites.
LP market influx I'm sorry but missions should be the LP pool here. Reduce incursion lp by at least 60% per site. Incursions require multiple people... yes that's true but they shouldn't give high amounts of isk AND lp....
Main route issue: Isk generation is to high for vanguards
Vanguard rebalancing Fix Part 1 (General fix): Vanguard isk reduced by 50% (YES 50%!!!!!) Reasoning: It is way to easy to specialize exact fleet comps to blitz vanguards
Fix Part 2 (site specific): --> NCO need to SPLIT agro - niarja in particular as more logi are jammed. There also needs to be a Romi to slow the site down --> NMC - I'm sorry but no fleet should have to mine ore to complete a site. Just give the fleet an end site structure to shoot at. Additional waves ALSO NEED TO SPAWN CLOSER TO THE WARP IN POINT so Battleship fleets don't have a 100% advantage --> OTA - they are fine just make it impossible to finish the site by killing all 3 deltoes. Also many batlteship fleets simply alpha the waves before they even get in range to shoot. Same suggestion as NMCs here - make the waves much closer so a mixed fleet comp would be better than 100% faction machs - give everyone a chance
Assaults and HQs and THE MOM needs to have their isk generation increased. It takes much more time to put a fleet together AND keep it running. I suggest a MINIMUM of 25% across the board.
Assault rebalancing Remove the NCN site and create another. NCNs are not ran simply because you need a very very specific fleet comp and even when you get it they take forever - infact right now you can do most HQs in equal or less time
HQ rebalancing True Creations Research Center needs to be removed or changed due to the simply fact you are REQUIRED to have a code breaker to complete the site. Now it's fine if you get an ADVANTAGE by using a codebreak but pilots should never be forced to completely reship to complete a site of the same type ***different HQs**
MOM Rebalancing Don't change a thing - very fun and challenging - alot can go wrong
Yours truly ~~
Carmelos53 - TDF armor FC |
carmelos53
OMG totally awesome corp of one Burning Spear.
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 17:55:00 -
[183] - Quote
Haqar wrote:Darius III wrote: Mission is successful. Many thank yous to the incursion guys for sharing their ideas and input with us. I forwarded your ideas to CCP. Even more thanks to the pilots who come out and destroy the Motherships time after time. YOU guys applied the pressure to force meaningful dialogue. The players made this happen for their own reasons.// I do not think that we should be able to form up 40 guys and deny content for thousands of people day after day. I think that no group of players should have that much power over so many people, by exerting such little effort. Pretty sure no one will believe me on this next point, but here goes anyway. I also wanted to do my part to try to ensure that the nerf/changes to Incursions were not too extreme against Incursions, nor too light. Telling you guys "I did this to help you" will doubtless be received a either a troll or a slap in the face to the uninformed. I am linking some of the dialogue I had with a few of the luminaries from BTL/TDF. I had 20+ conversations with the folks who organize a large portion of Incurions but the most productive/informative one is linked here. Hopefully we will see Incursions get rebalanced fairly and in a way that the majority of players agree with-both Incursion runners and the rest of Eve. It was necessary to halt incursions to force meaningful dialogue, and with luck everything will turn out for the best for as many players as possible. Skunkworks, Kill It With Fire, Brick volunteers, the good people who joined our fleets and Krissada: My sincere thanks, what you have been able to accomplish is almost unprecedented in Eve. I stand in awe of your combined efforts and leadership. See you in fleet on Tuesday? yea yea blah blah. I have read it and no you dont know **** yet, atleast not from that convo. Al i saw is some incusrions vets yapping true eachother and not really saying anyting usefull. If you seriously think they know what they are on about .... well your a lost cause ... Dont get me wrong i know them and do respect them, you too prolly since i dont know you but do i have an open mind. But they are already living in low or null sec like yourself, so maby, just maby yall are out of touch with the persons that enter the game and are playing in high sec. After doing the tutorials and run missions till you can dream them at lvl 4, people want something else. So they go mining or run incursions, due to "omg you not shiney" whining that goes on in atleast btl, new channels where formed and stuff was sorted out. Now incursions are not for the 'new noob', let that be said, or they shouldnt be. Imo incursions are for those that dont want to go low or null sec but like to play something more difficult then the same missions over and over again. Note that after a year of fcing incurions, i did assault, hq and moms they get as repetitive as missions. So what needs to be changed if anything? Well people that play a different branche of the game shouldnt be allowed to **** off this side of the game, just because they can. As far as i know incursions where intended as a means to get groups of people working together and play together as randomly as possible and since they are both in low and highsec its for everyone in their respective area's. Trying to get carebears to move to low or null, wont happen, trust me, it wont. Sitewise, its an idea if the time invested to form a fleet in order to run a site is equally rewarded payout wise, that i think has been said more then once in this thread. So besides all the good idea's beeing metioned here, having low/nullsec player disrupting the carebears way of doing things just because they can/ beeing pised about how carebears farm incursions/ or having different agenda's due to elections, is whole different set of tears then the obvious: "omg i killed your mom, now you cant farm bwahahaha....let me blue the wrecks while im at it to create so much lag you people will die too hahahah"...thats just grieving, sorry it is. While you have your ass back in low or null wherever you tend to play, how about you farm them there and do the same as the bears do? Problem solved. Also try to find your backbone again will ya? Going:" Well i really wanted to stop this but umm tdf walked away from the table so now i must go on", is as pathetic as a 3 year old whining on whatever they whine about So when/if you actually can get serious about this and want to know about things that might need some chaging, find me, untill then you just the next troll as mentioned in that convo, been there done that more then once already, your not that special darius Just my 2 cents on this matter
I love how you edited the logs Darius III and left out the part of your demands and threats to the player base. You aren't a CSM... you're a troll.
|
Cee Dublyew
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 18:44:00 -
[184] - Quote
First of all, Thank you for doing what you guys do.
As far as changes, I have a few idea's that I hope you guys like.
1.) My First payout idea: Payout needs to be adjusted (increased) for every site except vanguards IMO. Many people only do Vanguard sites because it's the best risk/reward ratio. Make it more difficult to kill the Sansha in the Vanguard sites (expanded upon in 1a, 1b, and 1c). Making it more rewarding (LP and ISK) in the other systems - (Assault, and HQ systems) will bring players to those other sites, making everything about incursions fun/exciting/engaging. 1a.) In OTA's, if someone wants to blitz it and doing the "Deltole, Deltole, Deltole" don't have the rest of the Sansha put their tail between their legs and warp off. Have them stay if nothing else (and only nothing else) got killed. The problem with the farming, is that it is easily blitzable. Requiring more to be done to finish a site can help curb some of the whining. For Example: Require all Eystur's to get killed before payout if the site was ran using the "Deltole, Deltole, Deltole" technique. 1b.) In NMC's, it's been several months that Sansha's been getting lyavite, and having it kill their refinery's. I think the Sansha should be well aware that Lyavite can harm their refinery's and take appropriate measures. I would suggest an assortment of different (rare) ore's that can kill their refinery's. I would even suggest having 1And Only 1 of those kinds of ore's kill their refinery. To elaborate, I would go further and suggesting that Sansha have a different kind of refinery that takes a different kind of deadly ore for each type of (randomized) refinery that spawns. 1c.) In NCO's, set up a time-limit that the Commander is there. If the commander warps off, no reward for anyone. If someone Warp Scram's him, he can self-destruct after the time-limit, again, with no reward. The npc commander "know's" there will be a cloning facility in one of the Assault sites, and Concord can "save some ISK" since it wasn't really successful. It will create more thoughtful planning on the FC to handle the site. 2.) My Second payout idea: Because I fully expect a nerf in regards to Incursion payouts, have the payouts Increase as the more sites are completed. For Example: if I ran a scout site once, have payouts remain the same. If I ran 50 scout sites, increase vanguard payouts slightly. 100 scout sites and the payout increases more-so for the vanguard sites. The same formula can be done for the vanguard's, assault's, and HQ's. It would drive those that do farm the sites, into wanting to kill the mom, simply for the huge payout.
3.) My Third payout idea: Just like LP's, don't pay anyone until the MOM is poped.
4.) The gate npc spawns should definitely be more prevelant. It doesn't make sense (in RP) that the spawns will only show up at the gate at the start, and nothing else show's up, even though there's an influx of Sansha coming in. 4a.)The longer that the incursion is spawned, I would suggest creating more spawns at the acceleration gates. (Example: let's say it's been a week and an incursion spawn has been around, and has been withdrawing for day's - have Deltole's at all of the acceleration gates. The Sansha are trying to leave, but, they keep getting killed, so, the deltole's can be the the escorts to get everyone else out of there.) The desire to pop the mom will be much greater as the incursion gets more difficult/intense. 5.) Low-sec needs love. Whatever turns out to be the new payout, double it in low-sec. Nobody wants to do it because of the opposite issue with hi-sec. Too much risk for the reward. Increasing the reward may bring more people into low-sec and make everyone much happier. 5a.) Have the HQ system (and HQ system only) spawn in low-sec with appropriately increased rewards. 6.) Respawns should be no longer than the next down-time. It doesn't make sense that Sansha will wait 24 hours before trying again. When a site is withdrawing, the Sansha can be "planning" to go to a new site. I would even suggest having 1 or 3 scout sites (and scout sites only) spawn elsewhere while a system is withdrawing. When the mom is popped, vanguard/assaults/hq sites in to the scout site that has the least amount of sites down due to player interaction will be the new incursion area. It will make the scout sites in other places, worth doing, especially if a group wants a scout site to escalate in their system.
7.) Slow down the progression of the influence rate, and have the penalties be more severe, such as higher rate of respawns when there is a high penalty, and slow rate of respawns when there is low penalty. I'm not familiar enough with it, to give a more specific explanation, but, it barely has any affect in how I do my incursion, even though it really should.
8.) There isn't much faction warfare going on. Having a player corp geared for sansha, and specifically defending the sansha, can create a realism not seen in hi-sec. Going further, I woudl even suggest that putting a warning in the Incursion public fleet channel can create a sort of risk not seen in hi-sec. It would inspire All fleets in a particular system - to band together and annihilate the sansha defenders (or create a great loot-pile for them). If Concord can't kill the sansha, I don't see why Sansha friendly corp's can't avoid concord too. It just seems like the Sansha are doing something that stop them from getting targeted. From all the Lore I've read, corporations themselves do not like the capsuleer's working for them. Having the Sansha friendly capsuleer fleet in any site, will be treated like any other fleet, (getting targeted by NPC's) but, outside the acceleration gates, it's fair game. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 18:51:00 -
[185] - Quote
Just on a completely unrelated note. A poster in another thread pointed out that people in null are unlikely to keep shiny ships around (at this point in the game, changes to game mechanics might change that). Further, unless their is some strategic reason to do so null sec incursions are going to be run by ad hoc groups of line pilots on off time. 0.0 alliances really don't do 40 man gangs for PVE. Maybe one balancing issue that should be looked into is creating some form of super vanguard for 0.0 that can be run by 10 guys in T2 fits.
Maybe Vanguards should be limited to 0.0 and low sec. If high sec mechanics aid in putting together large PvE fleets that might be the more appropriate place to focus on large scale PvE content. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
hotpot inc
786
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 20:30:00 -
[186] - Quote
From my blog:
Quote:IGÇÖve tried to think through changes that would enhance gameplay, balance various mechanics, and make sense in respect to existing lore. As we have continued to make incursions the hot topic on the forums, I figure IGÇÖll cover that first.
IGÇÖve never been GÇ£intoGÇ¥ incursions. I was interested when they first came out, but never had a fleet of friends to run them and never wanted to play the GÇ£LFAFGÇ¥ pickup game. So my first real exposure to them was after I joined Skunkworks; that whole story is well documented and IGÇÖll spare you even a summary of how it started. Early on, I started trying to think of ways to fix the issue of highsec vanguard farming without breaking incursions.
It needs to be said that I do not object to incursions. IGÇÖm all for cooperative content. After all, I got my start playing cooperatively with some friends. Had incursions existed when we were actively playing together, we probably would have been involved in them as soon as we possibly could....
My first solution was obvious: reduce vanguard payments, and balance that change by increasing the payouts of the larger sites which require larger and more coordinated fleets. ItGÇÖs an obvious solution, and perhaps too simple. Taking it a step further, I suggested a lore-based solution: Concord would become frustrated with capsuleers farming incursions when they are being paid to stop the Sansha attacks. As a result, after a certain amount of time (or a certain amount of PvE activity), rewards for incursions would be reduced over a period of time to about 50%. It would then become more profitable to end the incursion so that a new one could spawn than to continue farming the same one.
Recently, I had this idea: have Sansha adapt their strategies. If Vanguard sites are being swarmed, reduce the number of vanguards and spawn more of the other sites. WhatGÇÖs more, they could react to the fleet composition of the defenders, fielding more e-war or more DPS depending on what kind of resistance they were facing. It makes sense that a force capable of overwhelming Concord would be clever enough to not press a failed strategy over and over again.
These three solutions are not exclusive; they can all work together. Rebalance payouts, create a steady decline in rewards in order to make a compelling reason to go after the mothership, and make the Sanshas smarter on a macro level. Do that and youGÇÖll have much more interesting and balanced PvE content without enraging most of the incursion community.
tl;dr: Make incursions more dynamic and unpredictable. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
hotpot inc
786
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 20:44:00 -
[187] - Quote
carmelos53 wrote:--> NMC - I'm sorry but no fleet should have to mine ore to complete a site. ... True Creations Research Center needs to be removed or changed due to the simply fact you are REQUIRED to have a code breaker to complete the site. I've never run one of these sites in particular, so I'll just ask: is the echelon required? If so, I'll agree with you that it's silly to force a fleet member to reship to a vessel designed to do just this one job.
If that's not the case, suck it up. Explorers have flown swiss army knife fits for years because we need codebreakers, analyzers, and salvagers to make the most of what we find. You're saying you can't come up with a fit that gives up a single mid slot for a codebreaker when your fleet is gearing up to run the site?
The same applies to mining a little ore. It's a mission requirement, deal with it. Hauling around a niche ship would be absurd. Fitting your ship to adapt to the specifics of a site is normal. You're asking CCP to homogenize incursions so every site can be run by warping in and shooting the proper targets in the proper order. There's no other activity in Eve that does that, even missions have unique objectives. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
288
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 21:36:00 -
[188] - Quote
Change the site completion trigger to one requiring all the NPCs to be destroyed. Why would concord want Sansha ships to escape?
Look at site balance and payout levels, adjusting them so all site types get run.
For the issue of incursions being killed in a couple of hours by the incursion haters: When Incursions first came out the Sansha influence regenerated quite fast, and no incursions were being completed. CCP dialed the regeneration rate down quite a bit. Then the players learned how to do incursions quickly, but there was no reason to reset the regeneration rate as the players artificially lengthened the lifetime of an incursion.
Well, now maybe there is a reason. CCP: Adjust the Sansha influence regeneration rate back up, maybe as high as to where it was at deployment. I think a good goal is for a given incursion to last a day or two despite the best efforts to kill it faster. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Morgals
Sturm Reich Sturmgrenadier Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 21:45:00 -
[189] - Quote
More sancha in space!
Maybe outside the station fighting the sentry guns...not much loot or bounty just sort of a flavor thing. Maybe a group of sancha going belt to belt.
also VG's need to be more dynamic...they are the same everytime and get boring fast. Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SGHQ-PUBLIC [url]http://sgeve.dai-coar.com/[/url] |
Arianazz
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 21:58:00 -
[190] - Quote
Leave Vanguard payout and LP payouts as is or drop them by 10-15%. Perhaps set a cap on the amount of VG's you can fly in a day. If your capped at 10, or your payout reduces after this figure then it will guide folks into bigger fleets rather than force them.
Increase the other payouts as its harder to find 20 man fleets than 10.
Make the LP's more useful.
Just my two cents. |
|
Kranyoldlady
Traveler 52 D-Collective
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:30:00 -
[191] - Quote
I have seen alot of thoughts on this subject, some more outhere then others. Readng true this whole thread i think there is something to say for everyone here, it is just a matter of persective in the end of the day. So i will not bore everyone with how i think we should do this, for the idea's on the changes i had in mind, well we are 10 pages long now, if ccp doesnt get it by now, they never will.
So my 2 cents then. I run incursions from a carebear stand of things and i do them because its gd money and the time spending fc-ing fleets is what im in a mmo for. I like to interact on comms with people and hf in the end of the day, just the carebear incursions runner kind of way, like some poeple in this thread like to do it in a nullsec pvp kind of way.
I started out as a misson runner and got bored with them so i went incursions. I have to say, its not for every noob that commes along, and no, a drake wont cut it. Mind you i dont run vanguards cause to me, they are boring as hell but the rest i do fc alot. When in a fleet with people, night after night, you get to know them as good as one gets to know someone true internet. Now so many months later we see the third group show up and mess with us incursionsbears because they can, they dont like the way we farm ( i call bs on that btw, its not like they cant do the same in low or null), or they want to be relected. In the end of the day i dont care, Im my book its grieving and i dont care if ccp agrees or not.
Couple of things they managed to do though, besides beeing dicks. The pulled the community even closer, if even that was possible, they got ccp's attention apperantly because here we are. So we can we stop it? prolly not. I think we just might as wel go ahead and do what we are good in, even if its on a moment we dont like and call it a day.
Also my dockter said something about a life away from the computer, might be an idea if we check that out while darius and brick get bored \o/ |
wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:31:00 -
[192] - Quote
Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time. |
Mortvvs
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:50:00 -
[193] - Quote
wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
Mortalaria
YOUR MOTHER IS MY FAVORITE CAPITAL SHIP
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:51:00 -
[194] - Quote
Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
BLACKstArprInceSs SkyQuEeN
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:53:00 -
[195] - Quote
Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
Isolde Ma Duschen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:55:00 -
[196] - Quote
BLACKstArprInceSs SkyQuEeN wrote:Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
267
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:56:00 -
[197] - Quote
There is no 'fix' since the people in 0.0 cannot be pleased by anything short of: put every incursion in 0.0 and triple the rewards. Sorry about that, but right now the only sensible thing CCP could do is to disband and end the CSM. |
Redlly
RoyalWidows
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:59:00 -
[198] - Quote
Isolde Ma Duschen wrote:BLACKstArprInceSs SkyQuEeN wrote:Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
Jehlom
Doctrine.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:04:00 -
[199] - Quote
Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
|
kyrieee
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:11:00 -
[200] - Quote
I think they want more lowsec incursions guys |
|
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:36:00 -
[201] - Quote
Captain Rivel wrote:... - Revamp the reward system Addresses: 1, 2, 8, 9, 10 Solution: ISK is the primary medium in which products in EVE are exchanged. It has a fairly standard exchange rate with products giving it an implied value. When an NPC spawns ISK as a reward, it gives those players the implied value of ISK. This would be fine if the amount of ISK matched the difficulty in which the task was completed. In the case of incursions, this is skewed which causes problems with the value of ISK. The counter to ISK is products, these products can be valued by players and will exchange them for ISK. Thus leaving the value of incursions up to the market. The amount a fleet is rewarded is also skewed in relation to the fleet size and time it takes to complete a site. The reward per hour is backwards and doesn't scale properly. Head Quarter fleets should receive the highest reward per hour, not Vanguards. The way to fix these problems are to change the primary payout to something other then ISK (LP, item drops, etc.) and then increase the payouts for Assaults and Headquarters. Thus fixing the imbalance of ISK and backwards growth as sites increase. - Revamp the Sites/AI Addresses: 2, 4, 5, 6 Solution: Every single site needs to be reviewed and modified as needed. There are several sites that should be either removed, or replaced, with a completely new one. The sites that are currently in play look like a sample tray on a menu. Sites need to play more into the lore of incursions giving players better insight and more/new objectives to complete. Similarly, site spawns need to have some variables within them, no site should have the same exact spawns every single time in the same order, nor should they be completely random. Have different types of waves spawn with different roles. These roles could be attack focused, defensive/avoid focused, ewar focused etc. This requires the fleet to pay attention and react based on whats in front of them, not just go through the motions like they are now. The site difficulty should scale within a fleet size, meaning there should be Hard/Harder/Hardest sites for each of the fleet sizes (Vanguards/Assaults/HQs). Right now fleets can be tailor made to run from site to site with ease, while more standard fleets struggle. Having certain sites that spawn for only the strongest fleets gives normal running fleets less issues finding sites.
continued in part 2 I love most of the ideas you have put into this. It is very well put together and sums up a majority of the problems currently faced by incursion runners. I only have a few issues with the ideas you have to fix the issue. 1: Adding Item Drops to incursions. The big issue I have with this is there is no way EVE players will share the loot. You will have people in the fleet only looking to pick up the drops and not follow what the FC is saying. This will lead to good FCs giving up because they need to kick people all the time for almost losing a few Bil in ships over 1 mod worth a few Mil. Good idea but not practical with most of the eve players in the game. 2: Having the Sites Change how they run. We canGÇÖt do this for mission runners, how are we going to do it for Incursions? Not saying itGÇÖs a bad idea, just saying itGÇÖs impractical. Yes, Eve players are smarter than a majority of the other MMOs, but thatGÇÖs not much to shake a stick at. One of the big reasons Assaults and HQs are not ran is because thereGÇÖs still is too much for a new FC to know and think about. The training will get done, but I donGÇÖt know anyone in eve thatGÇÖs willing to be a few Bil ISK Ginny pig. That is also with the current Incursion setup. You add even more stuff that changes, people will stop all in all. Like I said, you have good ideas and I support most of them, but these two topics are to impractical to work anyway to run them. V
|
Vlad Cetes
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:46:00 -
[202] - Quote
Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems |
Valentine V
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:01:00 -
[203] - Quote
John Maynard Keynes wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi, I'm making this thread on behalf of CCP BettikGǪ -Greyscale Why do high sec carebears go to low-, null-sec and WH? Because of the higher income despite the hifher risk! (ok null is actually safer than high-sec) However, highsec incursion destroy the incentives to move out of high. I know many 0.0 dweller who go to hifg-sec to farm incursions and come only to pvp. This is ridiculous! Solution:Make incursons a low-sec only event (you can make it even more rewarding then). Furthermore, make sanshas within sites attack capsuleers with criminal flag first! So that it becomes difficult to gank inurson fleets within sites but still possible to catch people at the gates and so on. + gives an enormous and much desired boost to low sec + pirates get someone to play with + Carebears who want to have a higher income will have to learn to pvp or to hire mercs who would protect their farming op. - bitter tears from some high sec carebears who think eve is WoW in space and that incursions are raids. + For CCP: You distinguish your product from all the 08/15 MMOs where you simply grind stuff all day long. Which means less competition. + for Factional Warfare: FW Alliances will (sometimes) compete with null-sec gangs who will certainly try to farm low-sec incursions. + FW alliances will get additional inflow of members who want to run incursions but lack a proper organisational structure And before people start to cry. For some reason people were happy to farm WHs even though it is quite risky. P.S: It would actually solve many problems in this game. You have solved nothing asides trying to promote your warmongering. Get over it the only people going to LowSec are the people that are willing to. They accept the risk of going into the shark pit, and they get the prize for coming out on the other side in a better shape than dead. There is no need for CCP to **** off those that are happy where they are by trying to appease the few that live in LowSec. /me-TrollMode InternetCard removed, please stop talking till you have something not involving warmongering to say.f
|
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc. Astraeaus
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:05:00 -
[204] - Quote
mkint wrote:
...It was publicly stated by the designers that incursions are meant to last about a week. ...
... (CCP) You already know that incursions add no more isk to the economy than any other form of PVE, especially since the LP added is an isk sink. You shared the data at the summit that inflation is not a problem right now at all. The whining "they pay too much" butthurt trolls are wrong, and you know it, though that's 99% of what this thread is going to be. Pay is fine. The players organize themselves, share standings lists, and have worked out a lot of that "emergent gameplay" you people like to brag about so much. Fix the problems and the complexity of the emergent gameplay will increase. Listen to the butthurt trolls, and incursions will die, and you'll lose all those subscriptions who refuse to go back to lame missioning or ratting after having done incursions.
Good lord... that it the clearest and most significant post about this subject that has been posted AT ANY TIME.
On the other side and for some real "ihazdrake!" butthurt whining see Krissda's recent Threadnaught... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55792 TurAmarth ElRandir HBHI VP & Salvage Operations Director Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/ |
Captain Rivel
SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:26:00 -
[205] - Quote
Valentine V wrote:Captain Rivel wrote:... - Revamp the reward system Addresses: 1, 2, 8, 9, 10 [cut from quote] - Revamp the Sites/AI Addresses: 2, 4, 5, 6 [cut from quote]
continued in part 2 I love most of the ideas you have put into this. It is very well put together and sums up a majority of the problems currently faced by incursion runners. I only have a few issues with the ideas you have to fix the issue. 1: Adding Item Drops to incursions. The big issue I have with this is there is no way EVE players will share the loot. You will have people in the fleet only looking to pick up the drops and not follow what the FC is saying. This will lead to good FCs giving up because they need to kick people all the time for almost losing a few Bil in ships over 1 mod worth a few Mil. Good idea but not practical with most of the eve players in the game. 2: Having the Sites Change how they run. We canGÇÖt do this for mission runners, how are we going to do it for Incursions? Not saying itGÇÖs a bad idea, just saying itGÇÖs impractical. Yes, Eve players are smarter than a majority of the other MMOs, but thatGÇÖs not much to shake a stick at. One of the big reasons Assaults and HQs are not ran is because thereGÇÖs still is too much for a new FC to know and think about. The training will get done, but I donGÇÖt know anyone in eve thatGÇÖs willing to be a few Bil ISK Ginny pig. That is also with the current Incursion setup. You add even more stuff that changes, people will stop all in all. Like I said, you have good ideas and I support most of them, but these two topics are to impractical to work anyway to run them. V
Item drops were put in quotes just to give an idea out, loot in incursions do cause a lot of problems and overall isn't the best idea, the point of me saying it was just to show that theres other ways to reward players then ISK. Another point related to multiple types of payouts was loyalty points. What I realized was I forgot to mention that in order to swap to LP as a primary form of payout, the LP store for concord would have to be updated as well.
The reason I brought up multiple AI waves is because of what CCP said when they were designing incursions. They took the sleeper AI, broke it down and built on it making different parts of the AI able to be swept in and out as they please. So with some work it would be possible to use in incursion sites. Now for the reasons behind it, Incursions should be the closest thing to PVP in a PVE environment, thats why they are given the strongest AI, maybe I think too highly of the average incursion runner or maybe you think too poorly of them but having multiple types of AI in sites isn't beyond reach. I also mentioned an idea to bring in different difficulties of sites with the same fleet size, perhaps using multiple types of AI would only happen in the hardest of sites.
Thanks for your feedback , it allows for me to bounce off ideas with others and better explain my ideas which make sense to me, but possibly not to others as I may of left something out. x]
|
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:39:00 -
[206] - Quote
Vlad Cetes wrote:Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems
How? 0.0 Alliances have neither the equipment nor motivation to run large scale PvE content. Only an idiot would enter low sec in anything other than a pvp fit. PvP fits are incompatible with PvE content.
Sorry but while I could see PvPing in a very expensive ship (not a great idea but I can see doing it), I'm not going to self select to be a victim in an expensive fit. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
694
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:34:00 -
[207] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. Quoted for truth.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
vampire knight
The WaitList
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:39:00 -
[208] - Quote
hey all o/ im going to make this short and sweet. ive read alot of good ideas in here and hope for the best for everyone, i would like to add that during incursions i would like to have sansha's at every gate, planet, station, moon and belt with each haveing a bounty and abit of LP.. it would make things alittle harder for everyone and give those solo pilots waiting/looking for fleets something todo.. make the sansha's smarter and more unpredictable. The idea is to keep people logged in, i dont know how many times ive logged off and did something else because i was bored and didnt feel like waiting for something to open up. |
sacrificiallamb Sasen
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:33:00 -
[209] - Quote
What i would like to see changed in incursions
1 the size of fleets vanguards form 10 to 20 assaults form 20 to 30 and hq from 40 to 50ppl
2 make the control penalties premenant not just 2 hour if that
3 remove the triggers ship make them more random and more spawns i can go afk in tcrc and tpph hq's stop that
4 make all site harder i want to go into a site knowing that i could well lose my ship ~(at mo i can go into site go make coffee go afk for 5 10mins and still come back to a ship, i want to feel like iam in a hostile place
5 payout change the vanguards for 3 to 4minutes you get 10mil whats the fun it that.
6make the site much more random in spawns the amount of ships - damage
7 change the kundailni site, so it does not spawns after 4 hours or less have it so it spawns after like 80 to 100 hq's have be run some thing like that at mo the site could be dead with in hours. may be put to mom ship in this site so it take longer then 15 mins to kill, it the biggest pay out yet is to easy to run.
this is space. space is a dangerous place and should feel like that, even in high sec it is incursion
thanks hope you like. an incursion carebear :) |
Faith G'ieyer
Sister's of EvE Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 03:47:00 -
[210] - Quote
The Only thing CCP should do is make the MoM appear after a period of 2 to 3 days , it shows up the sites no longer spawn players kill it ... new incursion comes up.....
Do this to end the Whole griefergeddon .... Hi sec plays are NOT going to move to low sec or 0.0 , if you live in 0.0 or low sec and dont like the fact that their is a group of players that dont want to play like to you do tough s^&t !!! get over it.
|
|
Vel Kyri
Vanilla Gorillas
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 03:52:00 -
[211] - Quote
Moar Lowsec incursions |
Master OlavPancrazio
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:17:00 -
[212] - Quote
Vel Kyri wrote:Moar Lowsec incursions
Quoting for truth |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:18:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jehlom wrote:Mortalaria wrote:Mortvvs wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time.
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:19:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Vlad Cetes wrote:Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems How? 0.0 Alliances have neither the equipment nor motivation to run large scale PvE content. Only an idiot would enter low sec in anything other than a pvp fit. PvP fits are incompatible with PvE content. Sorry but while I could see PvPing in a very expensive ship (not a great idea but I can see doing it), I'm not going to self select to be a victim in an expensive fit.
lol at your troll mate.
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Snake O'Donell
Core Impulse FEARLESS.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Vlad Cetes wrote:Incursion distribution should be like this:
1 hi-sec 3 low-sec 3 0.0
That would fix most of the problems How? 0.0 Alliances have neither the equipment nor motivation to run large scale PvE content. Only an idiot would enter low sec in anything other than a pvp fit. PvP fits are incompatible with PvE content. Sorry but while I could see PvPing in a very expensive ship (not a great idea but I can see doing it), I'm not going to self select to be a victim in an expensive fit. You are literally ********. |
Amantus
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 04:43:00 -
[216] - Quote
such a ************************* troll mate
posted from my htc desire using tapatalk |
Neyem Praetorius
Reib Autonomous Industries
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 05:46:00 -
[217] - Quote
Whatever other changes are implemented, the possibility for third parties to disrupt farming should remain. The emergent community which is forming around incursion closing is a glorious thing. |
Andy Landen
Megaton m3 Heavy Industries
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 06:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
Incursions is the best thing that happened to Eve for at least 3 reasons.
1. Players gain access to smart NPC combat which requires them to unite with logis, resists, and dps.
2. Rich rewards are brought from the wormholes to the masses. Nice shiny ships are flown, and Eve sees the full range of gameplay with them.
3. The 1 server MMO power of the Eve Universe is enhanced as players from null sec, low sec, and high sec find great interest in each other.
Those reasons having been said, my feedback is that we aim our fixes of incursions to focus on those strengths.
First, access to smart NPC combat should be enhanced by escalating system site spawns as the incursion is worked. VG systems escalate to spawn Assault sites. Assault to HQ, if I am getting the order right, etc. Each system escalates 1 level at a time, so that after 20% influence has been lifted, a scout system spawns VG sites. 40% influence lifted yields assault sites there.
Second, rewards can really get aspects of incursions going which have had difficulty. More ISK rewards for low sec and null sec incursions. To keep outside fleets from crashing the party, the MOM site bookmark should only be given to the top 30 players with the most concord lp from that incursion. Only allow the FC of the winning fleet to take from the MOM wreck.
Third, connecting so many players is great, so let's keep it going. Also, how about an icon to indicate whether a fleet mate has aggression so logis don't have to worry about if RR makes them a WT too.
And seriously, the fleet tagging system needs to have a simple shortcut to tag each ship. Include auto-tagging, where ships are tagged according to player specified rules about ship type and distance for either pve or pvp.
For the added bonus to making incursions more like pvp, how about allowing incursions NPCs to warp off field when going down and then back onto the field after getting off-field RR. Players would then have to fit warp disruptors too. |
Glomondon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 09:15:00 -
[219] - Quote
1. remove all 0.0 whiners 2. problem solved |
Kel'Tarus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 10:47:00 -
[220] - Quote
Totally saw this coming, good thing I trained Tengu as a backup. Off I go to nullsec, my alliance will take good care of me.
P.S. Read my sig Why fix it if it ain't broken |
|
Serge SC
The Singing FC
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 10:59:00 -
[221] - Quote
carmelos53 wrote:
HQ rebalancing True Creations Research Center needs to be removed or changed due to the simply fact you are REQUIRED to have a code breaker to complete the site. Now it's fine if you get an ADVANTAGE by using a codebreak but pilots should never be forced to completely reship to complete a site of the same type ***different HQs**
I'm intrigued by this, if you don't mind.
I have never ran a TCRC with the help of a codebreaker, and I've FC'd myself at least 100 of them - if there is a way to use a codebreaker in a TCRC I'd like to know, as it could drastically easen the site. I know only the OTA and the Kundalini could use one, but it is not actually required. However the TCRC does require a delicate fleet composition, as tractor beams are needed as well as some ships with afterburners to move faster towards the CONCORD MTAC factory.
Thanks for the feedback,
Serge Shield FC (for too many channels >.<) |
Krod Mand00n
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:07:00 -
[222] - Quote
As someone who is unable to use RL cash to pay for my gametime I find incursions are the best way to pay for my two accounts, one for pvp and one to make isk in incursions. If hi-sec incursions are nerfed CCP and the people who I buy replacement ships and mods from will lose the income from my 2 accounts and that will also mean that someone who buys the plexes that I buy will no longer have part of the income that I and 'possibly' many others provide that are in a similar position to myself.
I refuse to do as "some " people do and use a bot as this is against the EULA and do not want to see my accounts banned, and I am not rich enough to have access to a tech moon, so for me incursions are the only way that I can a. enjoy pvp and b. meet and keep in touch with some of the people I have met along the way.
All I ask is that CCP think carefully before hi-sec incursions are nerfed. If anything increase the rewards for low and null sec incursions. If people from more wealthy alliances want to ruin my gameplay then I call for them to subsidise my accounts, that will be two plexes a month thank you.
|
Allko
Zero Tax services
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:18:00 -
[223] - Quote
:) in EVE "fix"mean "nerf" soooo...
A simple solution could be: increase lvl4 payout by 50% and move/nerf incursions sites wherever you like ... everyone wins |
ShipToaster
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:36:00 -
[224] - Quote
To the people who are quitting because you cant afford to plex multiple accounts if vanguards get nerfed I say **** off you lazy greedy cheap bastards.
Nerf Vg's by 20% and buff others by at least 20%. Make raw ISK from all sites down to 60% and LP up to 40% to trickle some ISK into the economy instead of flooding it.
Level 5 missions were moved from high for being too profitable and too easy and we see the same thing with incursions. Raises the possibility of moving level 5 missions back to high.
Make CONCORD loyalty point stores need insignias, possibly non player created objects as well for some items (perhaps rethink the no salvage and have a few items drop in sites), to force the same market PvP that many other PvE users need to do. Or remove all insignias from all loyalty point stores.
No payouts at all until incursion mothership is killed. Reduce the amounts paid depending on time taken to kill the mothership by five percent each hour starting two hours after it is sighted. have a one percent chance each hour that the mom is not killed for sansha to take full control of a system and give no payout. Have a big countdown timer so players can see how long it has been since mothership has been killable.
Incursions are not invasions. Sansha should not sit there for a week so no one week long incursions. Force people to move about more.
Have more random events related to incursions. Varied waves, roving sansha support fleets that need to be probed down and killed or they can warp into a site, and anything else to break up the monotony of incursions. Even have seven or eight incursions spawn in high at the same time to stretch resources as long as sansha have a chance of winning the incursions somehow.
Dont have the crap sansha withdrawing, let sansha take full control of a constellation if they are not defeated quick enough and have any adjacent constellations with incursions have slightly more ships and be slightly harder to defeat. Every day sansha control a constellation make it a little harder to retake it.
Let sansha attack POS's to remove abandoned or undefended POS's.
Dont let vanguards lower influence penalties.
A lot of people are making claims to a community and the use of voice comms as if it is something really important in incursions. It is not. incursions are boring and the only reason you do them is for the massive amount of ISK you get for no real effort or risk and you dont give a flying **** about any community or comms as long as the ISK is flowing.
The comms for an ota might go "Align down gate", "Logis L up", "Go go go", "deltole is primary", "deltole", last deltole", "drones in and align". That is it again and again. All that changes is the target order for other sites and saying to the ore dropper to go.
The community? Only used to find fleets, people have nothing in common and the only reason there is any interaction is to find fleets. Some interaction is better than none but dont kid yourself in thinking there is a community here. Incursion math? part 1 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=678400#post678400 part 2 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=698871#post698871 |
TheGunslinger42
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:33:00 -
[225] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:To the people who are quitting because you cant afford to plex multiple accounts if vanguards get nerfed I say **** off you lazy greedy cheap bastards.
As well as insulting them, and requesting their stuff (you can't claim to quit unless you give away every asset and isk you have), I'd like to also point out that they share a lot of the blame for plex prices being so high. As the amount of isk injected increases, people are willing to spend a little more for their plex, which means people can charge a little more... pile this on for a year and we get the stupid plex prices we have now. If they fix vanguards plex prices will eventually go down. Then you can unquit (since you didnt REALLY quit, as evidenced by me not having all your isk/assets) and go back to bearing.
Everybody wins. Especially those of us who fuel our ships with bear tears. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:44:00 -
[226] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Incursions is the best thing that happened to Eve for at least 3 reasons.
1. Players gain access to smart NPC combat which requires them to unite with logis, resists, and dps.
2. Rich rewards are brought from the wormholes to the masses. Nice shiny ships are flown, and Eve sees the full range of gameplay with them.
3. The 1 server MMO power of the Eve Universe is enhanced as players from null sec, low sec, and high sec find great interest in each other.
2) is actually a reason why incursions as they currently stand are utterly awful. There's, y'know, risk inside wormholes. That's why the rewards are high. Taking that level of reward but stripping it of all the risk and effort needed and dumping it in hisec for the masses is a bad thing, it isn't balanced and skews (even more so) the distribution of players through the different types of areas and gameplay.
|
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 13:51:00 -
[227] - Quote
I support the viewpoint of Serge SC's post on page five of this board. He has plenty of experience of how Incursions work as opposed to some of the pilots from nul-sec who are causing so much aggro atm. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:43:00 -
[228] - Quote
wallenbergaren wrote:Lowsec Incursions
We need more of them There's no reason for there to only be one at a time. Lowsec is small and incursions are a pita for day to day roaming. No thanks, one is plenty. |
Eleena Frost
Blue Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 15:37:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP, since I started in 2006 you have always stated that eve is a harsh world where the more risk you take the more rewards you can reap. The stupid amount of isk and LP incursions give have broken this paradigm. It's pretty telling that people who live in well settled 0.0 regions still go to empire and run incursions for isk. At this point the only people who have reason to be in 0.0 are full time pvp'rs, bots, and masochists.
Incursions pay more to the individual pilot than any other activity (barring trading) in hisec, lowsec, or 0.0 without any pvp risk and very little pve risk. Before sanctums were nerfed a pilot was at least required to risk a carrier/mom/shiny ship to make 60-100m/hr plus. This also required sov and an ihub with upgrades and always ran the risk of being killed by another player.
Now you can do this in complete safely in hisec. Anyone who complains of risk is full of crap. If there were any significant risk involved you wouldn't see fleets full of faction fitted machs, nightmares, and t3s running these sites day in and day out.
My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past. |
Cee Dublyew
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 16:04:00 -
[230] - Quote
Eleena Frost wrote:My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past.
L4 missions vary way to much, and are far less risky to provide the kind of rewards you're suggesting. The NPC's in L4's are far less tanked than that of an Incursion Sansha. There is a much greater risk of loosing your ship, despite the fact that it takes 2 logi's and 7/8 other non-shiny ships for DPS to kill off the site. I understand that many people want Incursions Nerfed as far as payout, but, to bring it to L4 levels is not smart when it comes to the risk involved in killing the Incursion specific NPC's. Your suggestion is way to generalized to be taken seriously IMO. |
|
Eleena Frost
Blue Origin
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 16:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
Cee Dublyew wrote:Eleena Frost wrote:My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past. L4 missions vary way to much, and are far less risky to provide the kind of rewards you're suggesting. The NPC's in L4's are far less tanked than that of an Incursion Sansha. There is a much greater risk of loosing your ship, despite the fact that it takes 2 logi's and 7/8 other non-shiny ships for DPS to kill off the site. I understand that many people want Incursions Nerfed as far as payout, but, to bring it to L4 levels is not smart when it comes to the risk involved in killing the Incursion specific NPC's. Your suggestion is way to generalized to be taken seriously IMO.
Just as L4 missions used to have some actual risk for the average pilot before the HP buff and rigs were added to the game. Sounds fine to me.
l4 rewards will allow the average pilot to make decent isk and LP with some risk but more socialization. It'll also get rid of the incentive for shiny fleets since the rewards will no longer justify the risk.
|
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
405
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:37:00 -
[232] - Quote
Far too much tears and stupidity in this thread from people who seem to hate the fact people are rolling isk in highsec, deal with it
If Incursions end up paying as much as L4's no one will do Incursions, what's the reward in taking the time and effort to form up a fleet when you could spend that time making isk solo?
Nerfing VG pay so it's less than an L4 for the average fleet will result in less people doing Vanguards. Nerfing the Blitz without affecting the pay will keep them open to casual low DPS pug fleets while shiny fleets will look to Assault/HQ's for better income (which need reworking for isk/hr to be more attractive)
Incursions shouldn't however, be farmed for weeks on end. Put up a 4 day timer before the Mothership can spawn, if Nation influence is at zero as soon as day 4 hits, Mom is up. The mothership then has a 72 hour timer before it despawns, thus giving most incursions a week to be cleared.
Asking for the ships to have drops and salvage will kill off pug fleets, they are not standard rats. Also more random drops is going to hit the mineral market harder, and miners have it bad enough as it is.
That's the short version of it, I'll come up with a more thorough responce for sites types later. Yes Incursions need to be fixed, the focus needs to move away from Vanguards and endless farming needs to be dealt with. |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:44:00 -
[233] - Quote
Krod Mand00n wrote:As someone who is unable to use RL cash to pay for my gametime I find incursions are the best way to pay for my two accounts, one for pvp and one to make isk in incursions. If hi-sec incursions are nerfed CCP and the people who I buy replacement ships and mods from will lose the income from my 2 accounts and that will also mean that someone who buys the plexes that I buy will no longer have part of the income that I and 'possibly' many others provide that are in a similar position to myself.
Don't fix incursuions because you want to be able to run 2 accounts for free. Riiight.
|
Akasha Prime
The Voidstalker Heresy Gryphon League
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 19:18:00 -
[234] - Quote
I feel that something that should be re-iterated is that EVE is, at it's core, a player vs. player experience. This is even expressed in the indirect competition of mining, industry, and research; and the direct competition of the market and PvP combat.
EVE has always appeared to maintain a balance between risk and reward, but I also feel that it is worth noting that there is a difference between difficulty and risk. It should be noted that the implication has always been that the risk is due to threat of other players involvement. NPC's represent difficulty. Other players represent risk. No carebear has ever sat on a gate leading to low-sec, afraid to jump, because the NPC's at the gravimetric site he found might be too strong for him.
In the current EVE implementation, the reward : difficulty : risk ratio scales inversely proportional to the security status of the system in most cases. Still there are some exceptions, such as Class 1 wormholes where the reward and diffulty are low to moderate yet the risk is extreme because you risk losing your ship, your pod, and (if your clone is not sufficiently updated) weeks off your training queue.
Conversely, high-sec incursions allow for extreme rewards, high difficulty, and almost zero risk.
Incursion Bears have managed to find a way to band together to overcome a difficult task and make a profit. Good for them. I don't run incursions, but I do feel that the fact that my null-sec alliance periodically has a day where we all pack up and jump clone to high-sec because "that's where the ISK is" indicates a problem with the current system.
My suggestion, then is to introduce some actual risk into incursions.
Option 1: Treat Incursion constellations as low-sec in terms of concord response. Fleets will learn to watch their D-Scanner and pick up some PvP experience along the way.
AND / OR
Option 2: Lower the security status by 0.1 for each time period (24 hours?) the Incursion is in effect. When the security status reaches 0.0, Sansha has "taken" a constellation and the Incursion spreads to a nearby constellation. Once the incursion has been cleared, the security status will return at a rate of +0.1 per day until the systems return to their natural security status.
This will encourage people to clear the entire Incursion faster, and will introduce enough risk (not difficulty) to justify the rewards.
AND / OR
Option 3: Allow corporations and alliances (but not individual players) to join Sansha as a Faction Warfare participant in which they may participate in open PvP in Incursion zones. Allow us to set up / take bunkers (or whatever) to reinforce the incursion in an area. Incursion bears could take their LP to concord; we could take our LP to Sansha. This could be expanded by having hidden Sansha agents that must be scanned down in highsec that offer missions (that must be completed by a large group, similar to anti-incursion fleets) that could actually trigger an incursion (such as destroying a concord facility in the system). With a system like this, flesh out Incursions into a truly immersive experience for everyone. Incursions would be less mechanical, and feel *real* for everyone involved. This option allows for both PvP (to have some actual risk in Incursions) and deply immersive player-driven role-playing, as well as providing what is essentially a high-sec war mechanic that is not easily avoidable. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
406
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:53:00 -
[235] - Quote
Akasha Prime wrote:I feel that something that should be re-iterated is that EVE is, at it's core, a player vs. player experience. This is even expressed in the indirect competition of mining, industry, and research; and the direct competition of the market and PvP combat.
*snip*
There is already direct competition in Incursions, all you're suggesting the same duckshoot idea that was suggested the other day, it would fail and become nothing more than an unbalanced blobfest and kill any interest in incursions.
Here's the issue, Incursion fleets are limited to fleet size otherwise they get paid pittance due to the fleet size - Isk ratio of the payout system. People looking to kill them do not have that issue, they can take as many as they like, jump in guns blazing and wipe everyone out.
Risk is the chance that you'll come out of the venture at a negative, whether it's by players or NPCs or by random luck. If put yourself in a position that you can come out of a situation at a loss, you have taken risk. Now I don't believe Incursion NPC's currently put out sufficient risk, and I'd like to see that change without them putting in ridiculous instagib style volley mechanics from the rats. That isn't challenging, rewarding, engaging or in any way good design, what I'd like to see are situations that require focus and quick player thinking and reaction, as well as a sense of unpredictability and diversity.
And yes, you can get that from NPCs, EVE AI is very simplistic. The sleeper AI was a good start but there's plenty of room for improvement. |
gfldex
295
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 21:12:00 -
[236] - Quote
Sadly Miilla can't post here himself. As surprising as it might sound, his spelling is no the reason.
Miilla > i bet once the bar on CONTROL of incurions heads towards 0% effective the rewards will stop paying out or go low Miilla > so thatll slow up farming lol
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining!
In contrast to general believe, interfaces to computer systems are not meant to be distractive. |
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
J0urneys End Journeys End Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 21:42:00 -
[237] - Quote
Is there a way to get the date back onto my Neocom? I really miss it. My husband misses it too, because I stay logged in and completely forget what day it is. I can't use the calendar to do it because it requires two extra clicks to open and close. To me, that's a click festival, and I've already been there a bunch of times. Actually, I am concerned too about developers going off on their own and deciding what's best for Eve. We need team players, and this change looks like a lone developer just took the easy way out. Again, my apologies if there is a way and I have neglected to find it. I just want it back. Thanks, Sub OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit **** Motherboard EVGA__132-YW-E180-FTW 790i Digital PWM **** 2 x EVGA 8800 GTX in 2-way SLI Resolution 2560 x 1440 x 59 hertz-á**** Corsair Dominator GT 8GB Kit 2X4GB 2000MHZ DDR3 **** Processor Intel(R) Core2 Extreme CPU X9650 @ 3.00GHz |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 22:01:00 -
[238] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed.
Depending on your activity and the time incursions are up they are already on the level of level 4 missions (ISK/hr). Sometines you waste so much time with travel and fleet search they that you need several hours of constant fleet action to make up for this. Sometimes you end up instantly in a good fleet, end up winning all contested sites and you do way more than in l4s. And sometimes you just move your ship(s) over to the incursion and it gone before you actually did make decent protif.
While I agree that vgs are dull and are to good in comparsion to other sites, I see a problem in decreasing vg income without reducing some of the factors mentioned above. Longer incursions, and better progression for forming fleets to step from scouts up to vanguards to assaults and hq would be very nice. As well downgrading should be as easy as possible imo. Fluid game play and such, sitting in chat and looking for fleet is not challenging, its not fun, it simply adds nothing to the game. |
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:11:00 -
[239] - Quote
vampire knight wrote:hey all o/ im going to make this short and sweet. ive read alot of good ideas in here and hope for the best for everyone, i would like to add that during incursions i would like to have sansha's at every gate, planet, station, moon and belt with each haveing a bounty and abit of LP.. it would make things alittle harder for everyone and give those solo pilots waiting/looking for fleets something todo.. make the sansha's smarter and more unpredictable. The idea is to keep people logged in, i dont know how many times ive logged off and did something else because i was bored and didnt feel like waiting for something to open up.
Excellent! Random Sansha Rat spawns all over the place in incursion constellations FTW. People in the incursion area who are still trying to live life as usual should not be able to while the incursion is active.
|
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 23:22:00 -
[240] - Quote
CCP, never take something away from high-sec and put it exclusively in null sec. I agree with making in more profitable in null/low sec but never remove it entirely unless it is removed from the whole game. If the null-dwellers want more people out there with them then maybe they should work on better recruiting or maybe a tourism outreach program. |
|
Brom MkLeith
Epsilon Inc STORM.
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 00:02:00 -
[241] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Thank you, CCP.
Deploy incursion fixes in batches of two (the first being able to be applied quickly).
1. Reduce vanguard payouts by 15-20 % and boost assault and headquarter payouts by 20 %.
2. Do everything you discussed in the CSM minutes.
3. Include a more "battlefield" sense in the incursion constellation. Make it much more insecure than it is already. Have all systems continous respawn of rats on gates/stations/planets on a set timer much like rats in an asteroid belt. Have these rats scale with the difficulty of the system.
- I am aware you currently have Sansha spawn on the gates at the beginning of the incursion, but please make them respawn.
Yours truly and again thank you for listening to us, Krissada
PS: Payout balancing cannot happen soon enough.
This makes sense. Thank you Krissade for making a sensible post rather than the dogmatic "Nerf all high sec." |
Vistus Geyer
Black Company Merc's
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 03:18:00 -
[242] - Quote
Eleena Frost wrote:CCP, since I started in 2006 you have always stated that eve is a harsh world where the more risk you take the more rewards you can reap. The stupid amount of isk and LP incursions give have broken this paradigm. It's pretty telling that people who live in well settled 0.0 regions still go to empire and run incursions for isk. At this point the only people who have reason to be in 0.0 are full time pvp'rs, bots, and masochists.
Incursions pay more to the individual pilot than any other activity (barring trading) in hisec, lowsec, or 0.0 without any pvp risk and very little pve risk. Before sanctums were nerfed a pilot was at least required to risk a carrier/mom/shiny ship to make 60-100m/hr plus. This also required sov and an ihub with upgrades and always ran the risk of being killed by another player.
Now you can do this in complete safely in hisec. Anyone who complains of risk is full of crap. If there were any significant risk involved you wouldn't see fleets full of faction fitted machs, nightmares, and t3s running these sites day in and day out.
My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past.
CCp if you listen to this kinda junk just remove the incursions . |
Riddler Crendraven
VC Academy
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 03:32:00 -
[243] - Quote
hello ladies and gents first of all I'm a newer eve player. I rly love incursions and the point that I can make just about enough isk to pay for my ships so i can go to pvp is awsome and I rly spend pretty much all my isk on new,better ships and fits. and here's my idea why dont you just double the amount of isk that you get from a low sec or null sec incursion because there is a higher risk involved. or give 50% higher isk payout.I dont think that there should be a change in lp's because they are good as they are(people have to work for it) or you could increase that in low and null sec too so it's more atractive I usually wait for a fleet for 1,2,3h and then when I get it we do a few sites and it's a wait again (I'm armor tank) so i dont see the option of earning bilions in a few days. you can fix prices by making the stuff require more LP (the higher the LP the higher the price so if you want to buy it you'd need to pay alot more isk to get it) If you really need to lower the isk gain I'd plead not to go down more then 10-15% you could however give new scenarios and new objectives to them I like the respawn ratts on the gates idea and the idea that every time you clean the site there would be 1 less site to spawn. start from 5k for example and go down for example start off with 5 sites and then at 4k sites left go down to 4 sites at 3k to 3 sites etc...
at the end I'd like to remind that high sec incursions are not that risk free because there are some people that get into a bb and scramble your logi's...they lose a bb and the fleet loses all their ships...
|
Shiu Juan
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 06:00:00 -
[244] - Quote
I would like to see an increase in payouts on Scout sites.
Some of our younger players are not yet able to field a 70/70/70/70 tanked battlecruiser, let alone afford faction ships. From my very limited experience of Scouts this seemed the ideal way of starting people off in Incursions when they are in this situation. However, they don't even pay as well as a level 2 mission completed in bonus time. I have found it a little hard to get people to come 20 jumps out of their way to check if it is in fact feasible to run in 3 T1 cruisers with meta 3-4 tanks, along with 2 baby logi (Osprey/Exequror) or some variation on that, but I assume that is the target audience. There needs to be some compensation for having to fly all over the place away from one's mission hub, wait for a while to form a fleet, lose a few ships learning fleet coordination and such. |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 08:58:00 -
[245] - Quote
I love the bears using the making isk for pvp excuse when looking at their kill history shows almost no activity. |
Forlorn Wongraven
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 09:29:00 -
[246] - Quote
Make high sec incursion gates as deadly as low-sec/ null gates and people will earn ISK and will be forced to stop the incursions when they try to bring their freighters through. Ugleb > and TDR won't log in so long as their core members are demotivated for whichever reason is in flavour this week |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
125
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 09:31:00 -
[247] - Quote
Replacing the ISK reward by LP is ofc ideal in the context of the ISK faucet problem, because not only less ISK is injected into the economy but also the LP store is an ISK sink. |
mitridate
Eclats de verre
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 10:33:00 -
[248] - Quote
- Balance the payout for site
scout < vangard < others . Make it gradual: There is not probleme is making big isk, but it would require bigger involvement / larger fleet organization. So the "simpler" sites, which only require a limited organisation pay less than the ones which needs 1 hours of fleet form up.
- Have npc on gates to bother non incursion players
The longer the incursion the more active / strong they become. at first only freg size, than larger ships, than scrambling capabilties and larger blobs of ships. This means that a too long farmed incursion will seriously disrupt typical high sec thing (freighters etc ...). so the "non incursion players" will loose a lot and people WILL be forced to stop the incursion by killing the moms
- boost the impact of incursion on systems
Incursion disrupt market capabilities and other things in the systems. This would also mean that players in general (incursion farmers and others) will HAVE to clean the incursions because they simply cannot LIVE in those occupied systems anymore.
|
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Silent Infinity
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 11:08:00 -
[249] - Quote
No ISK payouts please. The economy in eve is getting more and more rich, and (especially highsec) incursions doesn't meet the isk/reward ratio we have all over the game. Add some shiny stuff to the LP, remove ISK payout, boost LP. That'll do good to the economy, and maybe even help to stabilize the PLEX prices. Having only LP items will circulate the ISK, and not bring more into the game. We have more than enough money drains in eve, we need more sinks (and not just in 00 for the sov stuff).
Also the spawning of the mom disabling site respawning seems like a good idea. Also, I don't know how does it work currently (only tried incursions once in null), but players shouldn't get some final bonus payouts when the mom is despawned and hasn't been killed. Quite the opposite, payouts should be held back, if the mom is not killed in that incursion. Therefore, people are forced to kill the mom.
Also, the despawning of the mom could receive a randomized timer, varying at a medium scale, like 1 to 4 days from spawning. That way players can't farm the sites endlessly, if they need their payouts. So they'll be forced to kill it soon.
About the waves, randomize them, even the triggers. Triggers should be completely random, and even include some "first shot landing" types. That'll add some additional risk. Add jammers, neuts, webs, disruptors, painters, dampeners to the NPCs, so the incursion carebears will need some brains to deal with the sites.
Make it fair, and stop putting even more isk into the game, make it circulate, that'll do a lot better to the economy. |
S Smith
Smithsonian Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 12:26:00 -
[250] - Quote
As pointed out by others, the major problem is risk vs. reward. The problem is not the actual rewards but the almost complete lack of risk making this kind of money.
The fact that players in nullsec, lowsec and WH space move back to hisec to make their isk should be enough evidence for most people that there is something wrong here. In the long-run it is not a good thing for the game nor the players.
So there are two solutions, increase the risk or decrease the reward. I don't care which way you go.
PS. To all hisec only players. This is not about people wanting to deny you the isk, it is about making incursion running fit with the normal risk vs. reward ratio that applies to other isk making activities in the game. Null players also farm incursions with their hisec alts so a potential nerf will hit these players as well. |
|
h4kun4
H.E.A.T
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 12:56:00 -
[251] - Quote
I nearly did everything inculdied in "Carebearing", i ran L4 missions, Sanctums, Plexed in 0.0 and Lowsec, farmed sleepers in C2, 3 and 4 Wormholes, and now im running Highsec Incursions. Im FC for Vanguard sites, and for me, many of the things CCP did to regualte the Cashflow since I play EVE (Dominion was new) were pretty extreme. For me Incursion 1.4 was like "black friday" because it hit me in my best 0.0 times. L4 Buff came pretty nice timed for me^^ So now I would like to sugest some things which may nerf incursions without getting masisve rage of Incursionrunners so there is no need to rebuff anything xD
Vanguard ISK/h Nerf: Now you earn 10,5 Mil every tme you finished a Vangaurd with 10 Active Fleetmembers, and 9,7 with 11 Active. My suggestion is to adjust it one back, so you'll get 9,7mil with 10 people and 8,8 with 11 people This would regulate the cashflow without killing incursions to the income of level 4 missions. Also buff the Constellation control Malus, so ther will be more people dying whn they try to blitz the sites, causes less isk/h
LP Buff: Second suggestion is to raise the Concord LP output for all Incursion site types (Scout, Vagaurd, Assault, HQ) I would raise it by 10%. More LP causes more ISK getting "lost" in LP stores.
Annomaly Buff: In my opinion the real unfairness is, that 0.0 people getting less ISK than highsec-incursionrunners do I also would buff the 0.0 annomaly bounty payout by some percent to make 0.0 more ISK/h eficient than Highsec Incursions. Since "Incursion 1.4", 0.0 Income is pretty poor in comparison with pre "Incursion 1.4"
Assaults and HQs are OK: I think Assault and HQ sites are well paid fo the effort, so ther is no need for any ISK-Related balancing
Also Lowsec and 0.0 Incursions are well balanced... |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Important Internet Spaceship League
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 14:21:00 -
[252] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl.
Nah. Null sec pilots run incursions on alts for isk. Incursions make far more isk than anything else an individual pilot can make. I agree though, moon goo has to go. Make it a PI thing. But, Vanguards need to be brought in line as far as income goes. Incursions also need to be more dynamic. I've long said (since Sansha ships have a bunch of neuting bonuses) that neuting Sansha ships should warp into the deadspace pockets that are being run at random. |
Mynar Arubus
Islefive Consulting
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 15:09:00 -
[253] - Quote
Simple fix
Give each incursion a set amount of isk no matter how you finish the sites. Then its upto the incursion runners on how they want to do the site.
Once the total isk has been generated no more LP and Isk will be payed out to the incursion runners. If they have not closed the incursion by the time the total isk/LP has been generated then the incursion is still active.
This makes you decided do we farm lower ones to get the max Isk and LP or do we just go and do the higher ones and knock it out quicker by closing the incursion instead of farming it.
Example:
High Sec Incursion : total isk generated 4 bil Low Sec Incursion : total isk generated 6 bil Null Sec Incursion: total isk generated 8 bil
These are not the numbers I suggest just used as an example
|
Azran Zala
Sicarius. Sicarius..
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:22:00 -
[254] - Quote
Invading sansha's should also attack and cause massive chaos and distruction to Planetary Interaction installations, and require them to be defended.
The same for POS's in system... If a mom spawns it should warp around to different moons incapping POS's.
This would be awsome. And give a very real disadvantage for allowing the incursions to go on for days. |
Alec Freeman
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
70
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:25:00 -
[255] - Quote
Half the payout of vanguards so they deliver about 5mill per site with 10 people. This wouldnt break incursions they would still be more profitable than mission running and it would encourage folks to run the more dangourous assaults / HQs for isk. |
Ghazu
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:30:00 -
[256] - Quote
the ignorants whining about moon goo, stop it yall sound like bittches 1st moon goo has to be sold to get the isk 2nd moon goo that isk goes to the alliance leaders, the average grunt gets nothing, it pays for the sov crap, jbs and stuff the only place where grunts see the goo riches is through ship reimbursements/ other programmes
and alliances tend to fail when the goo riches are kept by a few at the top, moral crashes and you know the rest
|
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
196
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:38:00 -
[257] - Quote
Pay out is fine but they need more risk and more variables. They are boring and static.
Also they need to stay in one place longer.
I can only play for about 2h a night. Having to fly 20-30 jumps takes a large part of my play period and is boring. EvE shouldn't just have content for people who can play for 6h a time!
This does not mean I want them easier, or simpler, or less intresting though. They should provide and intresting contnent. Increasing the randomness would be one great help.
Another would be to increase the sancha presence and make them harder to fight out of a system. The snacha control is a joke in empire since the snacha just get farmed....
Make it so we feel like we are fighting not farming. Make it harder to move the progression bar. Make the progression bar ties to certain types of missions. Maybe speciall mission that we would have to form mini mom fleets for or the bar swings and gives us all a heavy debuff.
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:40:00 -
[258] - Quote
Alright, if we are making changes to Incursions, then this is a very important one that needs to be made.
REMOVE INCURSIONS FROM 0.0!!!!!!!!!!!
Incursions in 0.0 are one of the most annoying useless features, and are the only case in the entire game where EVE forces unwanted content on players completely at random, while also disrupting the current content they were participating in (quite happily in btw).
Rarely do 0.0 alliances in EVE (other than goons or a few others), have enough spare time to do the incursions fast enough to actually finish them in a period of less than 5 or 6 days. And quite often, when incursions spawn in 0.0, they are disrupting some form of PVP, which is the complete opposite of what you want to be doing with what is essentially PVE content.
Whenever a 0.0 Incursion cynojams a constellation, it can be disrupting a possible jump bridge route that allowed one alliance to attack another (therefore disrupting pvp content), it can stop capitals from moving on important routes. It can even slow down alliances from taking space by removing the ability to use capitals, which has also occurred numerous times.
Part of the draw to 0.0 for players is the ability to PVP anywhere and then PVE in places that they can control and do so at their own leisure. When you put incursions in 0.0, you are forcing players who may have nothing to do with PVE, to deal with PVE content to continue their PVP'ing, because even the small gang or solo roaming group may have to worry about the incursion gate camps if they are not cloaky or can't warp fast enough.
I can't fathom who thought it would be a good idea to force PVE content on 0.0 players, but if you don't want to remove incursions from 0.0, at least do this: - Remove the cyno jammer ability of the incursions, so that it doesn't just become an unusable constellation that you have to gather 60 people repeatedly to clear out (assuming you weren't already fighting with those 60 people every day in some war or conflict) - Remove the stupid Incursion rat gate camps, that prevent slow ships from solo travelling or small gang travelling without having to first deal with or even avoid the incursion. This basically halts any small gang movement around the area, which is already an issue in the first place, further exaggerated by the presence of incursions. -The incursion effects, while not completely damaging to the area, do adversely affect pvp. This could remain though and not be too much of an issue
But, since I'm quite sure that removing the cynojammer effect from the incursions would mean just instant death to incursions by capitals, which I'm sure wasn't intended. And I'm pretty sure that removing the 0.0 cynojammer effect without removing the lowsec cynojammer effect would be difficult, as well as any of the other changes like that. So because of this, its just much simpler to stop incursions from spawning in 0.0 systems.
It doesn't even make sense in terms of RP lore, why would Sansha force's attack lawless space? Sometimes incursions even spawn in Stain or places where Sansha's already have a presence, which make's even less sense.
The main point is, incursions are disrupting 0.0 game play for no particularly good reason, its time to get them out of 0.0, and leave them to low-sec and high-sec. Plenty of 0.0 people who want to run incursions can go to low-sec to do so. |
Tepir
BALKAN EXPRESS
52
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 16:48:00 -
[259] - Quote
Simple change distance betwen warp in beacon and acceleration gate in High sec ONLY
example make it 30 km . And even if you have buddy in fleet at the gate when you warp to him you will land on beacon. This way people will not be able to run this amount of sites per hour and thers Income will decrease. Distance in lowsec should be smaller or none and same goes with 0.0
More they have to reaproach less thers income would be
Making it Deadspace (afterburner only space should be good "fix" also |
El Duplo
Whya Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:12:00 -
[260] - Quote
All I see is tears from 0.0 people. Use your alts and fund (some) of your pvp business through incursions instead of whining and throwing a tantrum in empire!
Though the vanguards isk payout should be slightly decreased. Imo AS & HQ are fine. Scouts could use a boost to make them interesting to new players. On top of that, here needs to be a set timer on spawning of the mom in empire space, so I suggest setting the spawn timer to something like 24 to 36 hours at most. Some people don't have massive amounts of time and can only play a few hours, and this will give them a chance to actually do a site or two. Isk and LP are fine as it is. |
|
BigBear128 Vyvorant
Ride My Rainbow
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:22:00 -
[261] - Quote
Ninavask wrote:Here is what should happen:
-Lower Sansha Influence gets less sites till when the mothership appears only the mothership site exists. Similar to if you were actually pushing back the Sansha, not just farming them.
-Lower Sansha influence get more violent the sites get, increasing spawns and such by 10-15 percent.
-Lower isk payout for vanguard sites by 30-40 percent and boost headquarters sites by 30-40%
--Include Sansha pirates on gates incresing per system, make them act like belt rats. Also have them over planets and any other celestial beacon.
-Boost mothership takeout rewards so people have the sense to actually kill it.
-Increase CONCORD LP by 30-50%, focus more on LP then on cash.
^^ i agree with this |
Gaitrie
MagmaTech Industries
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:42:00 -
[262] - Quote
Someone that lives in low/null sec complained 'boo hooo I am not getting enough isk in low/null sec' - lets cry and annoy the high sec incursions runners and complain to CCP that I am not making enough isk.
After a year of incursion you start complaining NOW !... looks like the big tears weren't coming from the high sec incursion runners but from the low sec people that just want to be in power of the isk flow.
BUT... This is EVE ! as simple put. Everyone is allowed to mess up, scam and blow up each other ships. Do I like it ? I woudl nto be playing Eve if I did not.
So what would I change about incursions - NOTHING at all... let the players decide the faith of incursions. There are now Mom fleet killers in game... would they have been formed if CCP changed incursions earlier ? nooo.. players decided it was time to do something, gather and gank the incursions runners. You will not get any of these 'interactions' in any other game.
I am glad that my income is not only from incursions ! >>> Mine is Bigger than Yours ! <<< |
Gaitrie
MagmaTech Industries
53
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 18:48:00 -
[263] - Quote
El Duplo wrote:All I see is tears from 0.0 people. Use your alts and fund (some) of your pvp business through incursions instead of whining and throwing a tantrum in empire!
Agree on the above
I think it is about the isk generated - I think it is about that being in null sec means you 'should' have more isk then someone in high sec. And these people can't stand it that a high sec incursion running is generating more isk then they do. >>> Mine is Bigger than Yours ! <<< |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
409
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:10:00 -
[264] - Quote
Alec Freeman wrote:Half the payout of vanguards so they deliver about 5mill per site with 10 people. This wouldnt break incursions they would still be more profitable than mission running and it would encourage folks to run the more dangourous assaults / HQs for isk.
Except the majority of incursion runners are the pug fleets that form up in the main channels, and average 60 mil an hour at the moment. 30 mil is far less than mission running, and their fleets lack the competency to run Assault/HQ's.
That's the problem with half of these terrible suggestions, you're tuning them on the levels of organised shiny fleets and not realising how you're crippling everyone else. Fixing the blitz nerfs the high levels of income without affecting the average Joe Pug.
Then adjust Assaults/HQ's (not just in pay but in actual missions) for appeal for the organised fleets to go for the harder content, knowing they'll be rewarded for the step up in difficulty.
Edit: Also Shiu is spot on, there is zero reason to run scouts at all. If you want a site that should pay equal to L4 mission running in isk/hour it should be the Scout sites, but limiting the gate to T1 ships and BCs as the largest size allowed. Make them content accessible to newer players, let them learn the basics of fleetwork and grouping together and reward them for their success. |
james1122
Aperture Harmonics K162
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:00:00 -
[265] - Quote
My favourite idea for fixing incursions is to buff the non-vanguard sites up to the same standard as the vanguards for isk/time and effort then make it so that once the mom has spawned no more sites are spawned. This then prevents the incursion being farmed for day after day and adds competition back into trying to kill off the mom. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 22:00:00 -
[266] - Quote
Fit cloaks and probe launchers to some of the Sansha ships so they can scan for bears, find them and try to kill them. Or just sit cloaked on a gate and shoot at afk or autopiloting bears.
When CONCORD appears it has to kill all Sanshas on grid and whoever got the gcc. So I can kill a mothership solo in a noobship.
Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07 or uninstall and DIAF |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:27:00 -
[267] - Quote
Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content? Basically you open the door tomorrow to any wana be justice to start bashing about any little think he donGÇÖt like about EvE ? There is little person that run incursion let them run it if they like that kind of grinding. Incursions came in the game in 2010 right? I did not run one single off them until the biching started on the forum and I lasted 2 days before I found it boring, so how many ppl run them actually 1000 wow from 42k player base that every one right, leave them enjoy part of the game they like why everything in this damn game need to be nerf nerf nerf, so few cry babyGÇÖs can run the game.
Ok so I want fixed:
1, no moons to be farmed any more 2, hi sec is hi sec you should not be able to even lock me in ship (looking device donGÇÖt work in hi sec) 3, I want missions to pay out so once I run them for 24h I can buy plex to found 3 accounts for year 4, I want all CSM members to leak my lollypop (and am not talking just the loly am talking the whole stick) 5, I want goons to be nerfed and not be able to hold any space as long they are apart of SA forum 6, I want free flight paid by CCP to Iceland twice year
And I can go on and on and on
And if you donGÇÖt fulfill my demand I will cry on the forum every s, of every min of every hour of every day of every week you get the point until you donGÇÖt hear my voice and nerf thinks I ask to be nerfed. The only part I like about eve is my freedom to do what I want in the game take that away and I will drop the meanest never seen before propaganda on CCP and when it will hit you trust me you will be sorry you did not execute my demands ! Now go back to developing the game and stop nerfing ppl that enjoy part of game because 10 wana be space famous ask you to do something stand for you self and just say incursion are working as intended and we wonGÇÖt change anything ! They canGÇÖt even get fleets to actually close sites that REALY tell you how many pilots care about there nonsense. And by the success of the posting in this tread it show you how many pilots want it actually fixed, 10 ppl donGÇÖt represent the community !
Ah and to ppl that run incursions to found PVP (that most call nonsence esxuse) well i pvp and yes you can look at my kb stats am just not stupid to jump in youre blob F1 F2 F3 pvp, yes all money i farmed from the incursion vent in pvp ship (100 AB Legion) and when i fit pvp ship is 1.5bill cost just look at the buy odres i placed for the modules am buying this week SO YES there is ppl that use that money to pvp and pvp the real way you know the one when i breack youre 5 man camp and then lol at you in local.
Last think to those who trade you know market money is beter that incursion is (yeah it need some brains) and is done from hi sec and is done huging the station so you actualy dont even undock so teh risk even geting ganked is ZERO, so plz next nerf trading cos if i showed somme ppl in this forum what trading walets look like they probably quit EvE for ever. Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: GÇ£Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.GÇ¥ |
Marlona Sky
EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis
394
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:42:00 -
[268] - Quote
Stop Incursion farming!
When the Sansha super carrier spawns; have it warp/jump to different Incursion sites attacking the players till it is killed at its HQ.
|
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 01:12:00 -
[269] - Quote
Tian Nu wrote:Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content?
Because CCP isn't know for releasing broken content. |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 01:20:00 -
[270] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Tian Nu wrote:Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content? Because CCP isn't know for releasing broken content.
not something that did not get fixed in over year + the incursion works exactely as it should no bugs at all.
i seen many extension from 2005 (you remember pach when actualy you cant log in the game for 2 or 3 days) incursion are working proprely you dont like it run lvl 4 dont like it run lvl 5 dont like it run plex dont like it run cosmos dont like it do the Ark dont like it do market trading dont like it unsub, why it always need to be nerf nerf nerf so ppl can buy PLEX again ?
nerf incursion and am dedicating all my ISK to bumping plex prices up (and i dont need to buy all of them) just every time they go down by 50 mill i buy 10 and bump it by 100 mill up it will eventualy and up by ppl leaving EvE (the one that sub whith plex) or ppl paying whith real money i warn CCP to think deeple about this incursion staff there is ppl that actualy can screw thinks in EvE whith out firing single boulet. Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: GÇ£Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.GÇ¥ |
|
Yllej Gniht
0rizen 0rizen Nation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 02:14:00 -
[271] - Quote
Hello there!
Thanks for doing this, even though you may get a whole bunch of cr*p in the process.
I've read some of the posts, but I've stopped after a couple random pages of read; I'll just post here what I think - I'm sure you're keeping tabs on the whole thing anyways. ;)
So, here goes....
Get Incursions to have a dynamic payout Transform the static ISK/LP payouts to dynamic payouts. By this, I mean that ISK/LP payout should be very high if the Sansha Bar is very red, and get it lower and lower as it turns blue. Moreover, you can capitalize on that idea even more, by playing with the ISK/LP rewards orienting the players to go kill the Mothership faster. You could even have the ISK and LP payouts be inversely proportional, having very high ISK payouts when the Sansha Bar is all red, but very few LPs; and a lot of LPs when the bar is blue with not much ISK coming out of it. Eh, food for thought - I think that, like the market, if you make it dynamic, it would adapt on its own to the behavior of the community.
Make the Incursion Constellations spawn dynamically If your spawning scheme is separated into "HighSec", "LowSec" and "NullSec", make it so that in each category, spawn Incursions into places where you either have very low NPC-Killrates, or very high PvP-rates. What this will do is that it will always spawn Incursions into interesting new places, forcing whoever is doing Incursions to travel a lot between places, and seeing new territories. For NullSec dwellers, it'll either spawn Incursions into BattleZones or dead NullSec places where nobody lives or ratts or nothing. It'll create interesting PvP opportunities for LowSec and NullSec players, and will force HSec bears to travel a lot, often in HSec islands, creating interesting Pirate-Blockade opportunities.
Incursions is just part of the current problem The current problem right now is that NullSec has lost its "Shine". What needs to be done is to make sure that NullSec becomes "The Goal" again, since its the EndGame. Now, most people who are running the Incursions in HSec are just cashing in and stuffing their pockets 'untill CCP fixes this whole thing'. That's what's happening. I think that, yes, Incursions should be dealt with, but NullSec needs to be re-thought through and through.
Go ahead CCP, make something good! ;)
Yllej Gniht. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 02:56:00 -
[272] - Quote
Tian Nu wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Tian Nu wrote:Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content? Because CCP isn't know for releasing broken content. not something that did not get fixed in over year + the incursion works exactely as it should no bugs at all. i seen many extension from 2005 (you remember pach when actualy you cant log in the game for 2 or 3 days) incursion are working proprely you dont like it run lvl 4 dont like it run lvl 5 dont like it run plex dont like it run cosmos dont like it do the Ark dont like it do market trading dont like it unsub, why it always need to be nerf nerf nerf so ppl can buy PLEX again ? nerf incursion and am dedicating all my ISK to bumping plex prices up (and i dont need to buy all of them) just every time they go down by 50 mill i buy 10 and bump it by 100 mill up it will eventualy and up by ppl leaving EvE (the one that sub whith plex) or ppl paying whith real money i warn CCP to think deeple about this incursion staff there is ppl that actualy can screw thinks in EvE whith out firing single boulet.
So you are asserting that eve has no features over a year old which are unbalanced or could use iteration?
I am pleased to hear that you think technetium and faction warfare are fine as they are, though I am puzzled by your support of the dominion sovereignty system and your opposition to the pos management changes.
Also, this web page might interest you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:11:00 -
[273] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Tian Nu wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Tian Nu wrote:Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content? Because CCP isn't know for releasing broken content. not something that did not get fixed in over year + the incursion works exactely as it should no bugs at all. i seen many extension from 2005 (you remember pach when actualy you cant log in the game for 2 or 3 days) incursion are working proprely you dont like it run lvl 4 dont like it run lvl 5 dont like it run plex dont like it run cosmos dont like it do the Ark dont like it do market trading dont like it unsub, why it always need to be nerf nerf nerf so ppl can buy PLEX again ? nerf incursion and am dedicating all my ISK to bumping plex prices up (and i dont need to buy all of them) just every time they go down by 50 mill i buy 10 and bump it by 100 mill up it will eventualy and up by ppl leaving EvE (the one that sub whith plex) or ppl paying whith real money i warn CCP to think deeple about this incursion staff there is ppl that actualy can screw thinks in EvE whith out firing single boulet. So you are asserting that eve has no features over a year old which are unbalanced or could use iteration? I am pleased to hear that you think technetium and faction warfare are fine as they are, though I am puzzled by your support of the dominion sovereignty system and your opposition to the pos management changes. Also, this web page might interest you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation
where is the stiky about tech and FW ? i will like you to post stiky once i start bumping the GTC prices over bill cos you will trust me you will. Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp: GÇ£Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.GÇ¥ |
Isu Okaski
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:48:00 -
[274] - Quote
Did not have the time or intestinal fortitude to read this entire thread so my suggestion has probably already been stated but just to make sure....
I suggest that the completion of incursion sites awards the pilot with faction standing with the faction(caldari, gallente, amarr, minmitar) that owns the space that the incursion is in. The role playing reason is the fact that you are participating in a CONCORDE war, you are also protecting the assests of the local faction, hence standings increase.
PROs- Players will be encouraged to move around the Galaxy with incursions Players will be able to fix faction standings with incursions.
CONs- Null-sec incursions miss out Brick squad doesn't like buffs to high-sec incursions Darius III will get butthurt. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
411
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 06:37:00 -
[275] - Quote
Isu Okaski wrote:Did not have the time or intestinal fortitude to read this entire thread so my suggestion has probably already been stated but just to make sure....
I suggest that the completion of incursion sites awards the pilot with faction standing with the faction(caldari, gallente, amarr, minmitar) that owns the space that the incursion is in. The role playing reason is the fact that you are participating in a CONCORDE war, you are also protecting the assests of the local faction, hence standings increase.
PROs- Players will be encouraged to move around the Galaxy with incursions Players will be able to fix faction standings with incursions.
CONs- Null-sec incursions miss out Brick squad doesn't like buffs to high-sec incursions Darius III will get butthurt.
Personally I'd like to see the sites give sec standing, with Motherships going beyond the 5.0.
But that's just me and my 10.0 dream... Nice idea though. |
Docet Umbra
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 06:58:00 -
[276] - Quote
Kranyoldlady wrote:I have seen alot of thoughts on this subject, some more outhere then others. Readng true this whole thread i think there is something to say for everyone here, it is just a matter of persective in the end of the day. So i will not bore everyone with how i think we should do this, for the idea's on the changes i had in mind, well we are 10 pages long now, if ccp doesnt get it by now, they never will.
So my 2 cents then. I run incursions from a carebear stand of things and i do them because its gd money and the time spending fc-ing fleets is what im in a mmo for. I like to interact on comms with people and hf in the end of the day, just the carebear incursions runner kind of way, like some poeple in this thread like to do it in a nullsec pvp kind of way.
I started out as a misson runner and got bored with them so i went incursions. I have to say, its not for every noob that commes along, and no, a drake wont cut it. Mind you i dont run vanguards cause to me, they are boring as hell but the rest i do fc alot. When in a fleet with people, night after night, you get to know them as good as one gets to know someone true internet. Now so many months later we see the third group show up and mess with us incursionsbears because they can, they dont like the way we farm ( i call bs on that btw, its not like they cant do the same in low or null), or they want to be relected. In the end of the day i dont care, Im my book its grieving and i dont care if ccp agrees or not.
Couple of things they managed to do though, besides beeing dicks. The pulled the community even closer, if even that was possible, they got ccp's attention apperantly because here we are. So we can we stop it? prolly not. I think we just might as wel go ahead and do what we are good in, even if its on a moment we dont like and call it a day.
Also my dockter said something about a life away from the computer, might be an idea if we check that out while darius and brick get bored \o/
/agree |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
542
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:26:00 -
[277] - Quote
Tian Nu wrote:Why fix something that is not broken? Or do you admit you released broken incursion content? Basically you open the door tomorrow to any wana be justice to start bashing about any little think he donGÇÖt like about EvE ? There is little person that run incursion let them run it if they like that kind of grinding. Incursions came in the game in 2010 right? I did not run one single off them until the biching started on the forum and I lasted 2 days before I found it boring, so how many ppl run them actually 1000 wow from 42k player base that every one right, leave them enjoy part of the game they like why everything in this damn game need to be nerf nerf nerf, so few cry babyGÇÖs can run the game.
Ok so I want fixed:
1, no moons to be farmed any more 2, hi sec is hi sec you should not be able to even lock me in ship (looking device donGÇÖt work in hi sec) 3, I want missions to pay out so once I run them for 24h I can buy plex to found 3 accounts for year 4, I want all CSM members to leak my lollypop (and am not talking just the loly am talking the whole stick) 5, I want goons to be nerfed and not be able to hold any space as long they are apart of SA forum 6, I want free flight paid by CCP to Iceland twice year
And I can go on and on and on
And if you donGÇÖt fulfill my demand I will cry on the forum every s, of every min of every hour of every day of every week you get the point until you donGÇÖt hear my voice and nerf thinks I ask to be nerfed. The only part I like about eve is my freedom to do what I want in the game take that away and I will drop the meanest never seen before propaganda on CCP and when it will hit you trust me you will be sorry you did not execute my demands ! Now go back to developing the game and stop nerfing ppl that enjoy part of game because 10 wana be space famous ask you to do something stand for you self and just say incursion are working as intended and we wonGÇÖt change anything ! They canGÇÖt even get fleets to actually close sites that REALY tell you how many pilots care about there nonsense. And by the success of the posting in this tread it show you how many pilots want it actually fixed, 10 ppl donGÇÖt represent the community !
Ah and to ppl that run incursions to found PVP (that most call nonsence esxuse) well i pvp and yes you can look at my kb stats am just not stupid to jump in youre blob F1 F2 F3 pvp, yes all money i farmed from the incursion vent in pvp ship (100 AB Legion) and when i fit pvp ship is 1.5bill cost just look at the buy odres i placed for the modules am buying this week SO YES there is ppl that use that money to pvp and pvp the real way you know the one when i breack youre 5 man camp and then lol at you in local.
Last think to those who trade you know market money is beter that incursion is (yeah it need some brains) and is done from hi sec and is done huging the station so you actualy dont even undock so teh risk even geting ganked is ZERO, so plz next nerf trading cos if i showed somme ppl in this forum what trading walets look like they probably quit EvE for ever.
Bad post
|
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:38:00 -
[278] - Quote
I love Eve. you got everything in the game from Mission whoring to grinding incursions to Faction warfare. PVP action in low sec and hige sov warfare or pvp action nullsec. plus....you guys will love this......the people cry when someone finds a way to make the iskies and deny the big alliance out in nullsec. yeah thats a good one there.
So you all stilltalking about fixing the incursions. yeah i have to after agree after running them for soemtime VG needs to be fixed all the others are just fine but some other tweaking can be done
1> Fix it where you gotta run so many sites before the more advance sites populate the area. 2> Killing the mother ship should be moire entertaining fix it where it populates its like an expedition who ever fleets are running the higher end HQ runs the Fleet Commander gets a pop up saying where its at and treat it as such. 24 hours it despawns the incursion site and.....damn you gotta love the and parts.......and everyoen who wasin the said fleets that did not go to fight said mother ship takes a standing hit and loses all LP they would have gained.
Awsome idea for empire but what about them buttplug pvp pilots out in 00. I treat it like the empire suggestion but add in a tweak. you do not bother to deal with your incursion let the following things happen 1> they spread into neighboring constellation like a cancer and the end of 7 days 2> nothing still done. Holding alliance has to pay more to hold it and it also degrades all the ihub upgrades for each system if there are none it becomes sansha territory |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:39:00 -
[279] - Quote
Isu Okaski wrote: CONs- Null-sec incursions miss out Brick squad doesn't like buffs to high-sec incursions Darius III will get butthurt.
There is NPC ownership to some 0.0 space, and I would quite like to grind some Gurista standings out in Venal
In Sov space, well, you are defending your own infrastructure, not an NPC empire's, so its a bit different.
Caellach Marellus wrote: Personally I'd like to see the sites give sec standing, with Motherships going beyond the 5.0.
But that's just me and my 10.0 dream... Nice idea though.
You can go above 5.0, you just have to do missions for CONCORD themselves ;)
Dunno if you can make it all the way to 10.0, but you can go over 5.0, that is fact.
See COSMOS missions, that is the secret to doing it, iirc. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:43:00 -
[280] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Awsome idea for empire but what about them buttplug pvp pilots out in 00. I treat it like the empire suggestion but add in a tweak. you do not bother to deal with your incursion let the following things happen 1> they spread into neighboring constellation like a cancer and the end of 7 days 2> nothing still done. Holding alliance has to pay more to hold it and it also degrades all the ihub upgrades for each system if there are none it becomes sansha territory
You do realize that incursions are already much harder on nullsec pilots that on highsec, right?
Prevents us from moving around to do things like fuel our ihubs, move around using our jump bridges, and defend our space with capitals, since the constellation gets cynojammed. I know to highsec incursioners cynojammed is just a meaningless icon that pops up during the incursion, but it means a hell of alot out here. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
|
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:47:00 -
[281] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Awsome idea for empire but what about them buttplug pvp pilots out in 00. I treat it like the empire suggestion but add in a tweak. you do not bother to deal with your incursion let the following things happen 1> they spread into neighboring constellation like a cancer and the end of 7 days 2> nothing still done. Holding alliance has to pay more to hold it and it also degrades all the ihub upgrades for each system if there are none it becomes sansha territory
You do realize that incursions are already much harder on nullsec pilots that on highsec, right? Prevents us from moving around to do things like fuel our ihubs, move around using our jump bridges, and defend our space with capitals, since the constellation gets cynojammed. I know to highsec incursioners cynojammed is just a meaningless icon that pops up during the incursion, but it means a hell of alot out here.
Yes i do u have ran the 0.0 before.
Hey is that not why ~A~ called CTAs to kill the one off in their terrtiroy?
|
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 09:55:00 -
[282] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Awsome idea for empire but what about them buttplug pvp pilots out in 00. I treat it like the empire suggestion but add in a tweak. you do not bother to deal with your incursion let the following things happen 1> they spread into neighboring constellation like a cancer and the end of 7 days 2> nothing still done. Holding alliance has to pay more to hold it and it also degrades all the ihub upgrades for each system if there are none it becomes sansha territory
You do realize that incursions are already much harder on nullsec pilots that on highsec, right? Prevents us from moving around to do things like fuel our ihubs, move around using our jump bridges, and defend our space with capitals, since the constellation gets cynojammed. I know to highsec incursioners cynojammed is just a meaningless icon that pops up during the incursion, but it means a hell of alot out here. Yes i do u have ran the 0.0 before. Hey is that not why ~A~ called CTAs to kill the one off in their terrtiroy? I would guess so. Seem similar calls go out in CFC a couple times because we needed to unjam some space.
Point is, we don't need more reason to close them down, we are already about as motivated to do it as we are gonna get. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
George Holden
The Shadow Plague BLACK-MARK
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 11:27:00 -
[283] - Quote
Crawled through all the mud to get here :>
As always I'm seeing 3 camps here, the notorious "hater" the fluffy carebear and some objective views.
I guess the simplest solution would be to remove Incursions and pretend they never happened.
From what I've seen it's fairly low risk versus high reward much better than running Level 4 missions.
Few things that I think might work out, although I cannot supply "hard numbers"
- reduce Incursion spawns in highsec, increase in lowsec -> raise value of lowsec? - reduce payout on "easier" sites or increase difficulty. I do not have insight in the developement process behind Incursions but I guess you have some kind of number on how much you should earn and how much you actually earn? - gatecamps would support the whole EVE is harsh theme but I guess there is too much crying involved in the implementation of those - greater spread on Incursion spawns if possible -> keep them farther apart - more dynamic sites would be a great addition, maybe some kind of escalation chance based on killing stuff? - rethink the influence bar, as far as I remember you were supposed to run smaller sites to reduce the resistance penalties so you can run the harder sites. Right now it doesn't have any real impact since skills/fitting negate the negative effects until the bar hits 0 - increase the time needed to "blue" the bar but make it act as some kind of hardcap, if you're pushing the Sansha's back as hard as it's going now they gonna sack up for one last attack and then retreat - dynamic scaling of sites e.g. the harder you push the less easier sites you get
That's all I can come up with :> |
Dztrgovac
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 11:57:00 -
[284] - Quote
Well I have to congratulate you on your victory. If CCP accepts 1% of "suggestions" from this thread Incursions will pay out less than L4 missions. See you on renewed "remove highsec L4s" threads soon. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
366
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 12:16:00 -
[285] - Quote
Please please PLEASE get someone to translate your posts for you. From what little I understood there is some very intelligent thought in the chaos that spews forth in your posts, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is between the spelling and grammar.
I'm not a perfectionist, but the scion of a family of teachers inside me cuts himself every time he sees something this bad. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
corbexx
Aperture Harmonics K162
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 12:19:00 -
[286] - Quote
I think the main issue is the risk to reward as it is you can make as much isk doing incursions as you can doing c6 wh sites and your limited on them sites (ok can farm static but you then lose cap spawns and alot more at risk)
in null sec adnlow sec and wh space yoru at alot more risk of getting ganked (ok low and null have local and intel which helps)
people moan about ooh 1 falcon or blackbird can jam your logi and you lose 2 or 3 billion in ships.
well try it a low sec or null or wh space cos you'll lose your whole fleet then, simple fact is you wouldnt run them cos the risk woudl be to high so why should they pay as well as c6 wh stuff with no risk?
simple fact is the risk to reward is a joke for hisec incursions.
i'd also liek to see sansha adapt to people if every vanguard site is getting wiped they should spawn less and more of the sites that arent being done should spawn |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
366
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 12:39:00 -
[287] - Quote
corbexx wrote:I think the main issue is the risk to reward as it is you can make as much isk doing incursions as you can doing c6 wh sites and your limited on them sites (ok can farm static but you then lose cap spawns and alot more at risk)
in null sec adnlow sec and wh space yoru at alot more risk of getting ganked (ok low and null have local and intel which helps)
people moan about ooh 1 falcon or blackbird can jam your logi and you lose 2 or 3 billion in ships.
well try it a low sec or null or wh space cos you'll lose your whole fleet then, simple fact is you wouldnt run them cos the risk woudl be to high so why should they pay as well as c6 wh stuff with no risk?
simple fact is the risk to reward is a joke for hisec incursions.
i'd also liek to see sansha adapt to people if every vanguard site is getting wiped they should spawn less and more of the sites that arent being done should spawn My suggestion for fixing incursions is to get rid of HQ sites, and have the MS hotdrop people when she spawns. Forces people into bigger fleets, which forces them into the higher level sites, and more or less raises the risk level high enough that people would not be nearly as upset as now.
The will run the same risks null/lowsec incursions face, but without having to submit to pvp. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Dztrgovac
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 13:50:00 -
[288] - Quote
95% of "suggestions" here are good enough that they might in practice mean "remove highsec incursiosn".
Just to remind everyone that if you nerf incursions just close to L4 money they become pointless. You take take to fleet up, you trust your ship to FC and logis. Even without this "risk" , having group activity pay same or less as solo one removes any incentive to do group activity.
Having fixed amount of ISK incursions can pay, or stopping site spawn once mom appears have same effect of making incursions lifespan into just hours. Only those who are lucky to have enough people close and online at moment incursions spawns will be able to earn anything.
No CONCORD or any similar is same as completely removing high-sec incursions. Its actually a even worse option as people would have proper high-sec systems in neighborhood and exploit broken high-sec agro mechanics to no end.
On real suggestion. Scouts, assaults and HQs should pay much more than they do now. HQs and assaults should pay the most; awarding pure human effort needed to gather 20 or 30 people in fleet.
VG payout sadly does need a nerf and anything else would be dishonest to say. Problem is that in end you must have HQs and Assaults lucrative so they would have to pay at least as much as VGs do today. And we know that those payouts are unacceptable to all pirates, griefers and 00 tech lords out there. And CCP must listen to this crucial 15% of EVE population.
Fixing VGs themselves. If you force people to mien ore in NMC and force people to hack in OTA you still leave Legion fleets happily actually being able to break 150M/hr.
Finally. Anything below 70-80mil/hr for a decent fleet in VGs make them pointless to do as you can do better solo in L4s in T1 BS if you have more than 10 braincells. This would mean 30-50 mil/hr for "scrub" fleets but its better than they can do with those setups in missions so they do get motivation.
More LP less isk is obvious fix for all; but trapped by oceans of LP people have accumulated over last year. You push payout balance so that people have to use up LP all the time; and you crash all highsec LP in EVE. |
Goumeka Ghalvia
The Fuel Pump Brotherhood
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 16:06:00 -
[289] - Quote
Vanguard Sport
Vanguard sites in Incursions have long become a sport. They are quick, not too difficult and fairly rewarding.
Because entering a site isnGÇÖt a big commitment there are plenty of fleets that are willing to compete for a chance to deny the opponent the payout and shorten their own time per site. When there are no competitions, organized Incursion running clubs like SSN, ISN and alliances like Polaris and Sk33t Fl33t run sites in time trial mode and try to shave off as much time off the site as possible. For many it has become more than a way to make ISK. It is a social low risk PvE sport where the competition and the tears of the losing opponents are worth more than money. And this is where a way to lower the Incursion ISK output comes from.
Reward competition.
Decrease the payout per site if thereGÇÖs only one fleet in it and increase the payout for competed sites.
Possible adjustments.
It is important to keep the payout balanced. Current 10 million ISK per site reward is good. Average time ranges from 3 to 6 minutes.
If the concept of competition is brought in, consider these payouts:
GÇó8 million ISK for a site with a single fleet of 10. GÇó12 million ISK for a competed site with two fleets in. GÇó14 million ISK for a competed site with three fleets in.
ItGÇÖs enough of an incentive to push people into more competition thus lowering the total reward gained by everyone in a Vanguard system.
Role-players.
IGÇÖm aware that many role-players are upset about the never ending farming of Incursions and find it immersion breaking, however, think of the cynical nature of capsuleers as they are portrait in the lore. Profit and personal entertainment above needs of planet dwellers and generally others. Vanguard sites are a perfect arena to flex your muscles and show your skill to the other fleets without engaging them in direct combat.
Leading the way.
Creating this sport will once again put CCP ahead of competition as this type of an experience has not been seen in any current or upcoming MMO.
Other Incursion sites.
All that said same concept can hardly be applied to Assault and Headquarter sites as they are a much bigger commitment due to the time they take to complete. Those sites also need to be rebalanced perhaps increasing the total payout and difficulty, making them a more common type of a PvE raid experience where your main enemies are the NPCs.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
36
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 18:01:00 -
[290] - Quote
Isu Okaski wrote: CONs- Null-sec incursions miss out Brick squad doesn't like buffs to high-sec incursions Darius III will get butthurt.
Please Move CONS 2&3 to PROs :) |
|
Dztrgovac
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 19:00:00 -
[291] - Quote
Oh and for Incursion not to be unfair breaker of risk/reward and all that.
As I said, overall ISK payout should be reduced by 20-30%, with LP increased so in end VGs pay 10-20% less than current; and Assaults and HQs paying much more, to reward effort of gathering larger fleet and risking more (losing ships in HQ sites is more of a when then if).
But also. Tweak the multipliers and base payout so that while highsec sites pay as outlined above, lowsec and null incursions pay noticeably more than highsec. Currently math says its 45%, they should at least pay 60-70% more than highsec sites.
Increase anom payout a bit, increase anom faction ship spawn rates a tiny bit, and also escalations chance a tiny bit up.
And if you want to create utopia rework T3 material requirements so we don't have 1 diamond worth bottleneck and 50x more "useless junk". |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1169
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 21:03:00 -
[292] - Quote
For a future note:
When are the Empires going to strike back? Is Kuvakai a moron who's going to just keep throwing ships at the cosmic meat grinder forever?
|
Isu Okaski
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 00:31:00 -
[293] - Quote
Quote: My suggestion for fixing incursions is to get rid of HQ sites, and have the MS hotdrop people when she spawns. Forces people into bigger fleets, which forces them into the higher level sites, and more or less raises the risk level high enough that people would not be nearly as upset as now.
So you want to remove the highest level site and(other than mom) and then have mom hotdrop so it forces people into bigger fleets and bigger sites? But you just removed the biggest site?
HQ sites do not need to be nerfed. HQ sites do not make THAT much money. In fact, if you are on EVE anytime other than peak Euro hours you will make less than 30m/hr running HQ sites and sometimes you will not even be able to run them due to lack of pilots. The advantage to HQs is that it gets pilots to cooperate and form large fleets, also newer players can join as there is little to no contestation.
VGs need the nerf. Not going to sugar coat it...it is too easy to get a 10 pilot mach fleet together and pump out 100m/hr. In my opinion the ISK/hr should be more for the larger fleets as they take more coordination and effort.
Now having said all that, I would not mind a bit of risk injection into all incursion sites. At this point it takes no effort to beat these sites, even HQs and motherships. All of the spawns and ship stats are all documented...a bit of randomness and difficulty would be fun.
|
Cornwalace
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 01:35:00 -
[294] - Quote
Crazy Idea 1:
Have 1 incursion in low-sec/null sec and another in hi-sec. Whenever 1 goes down, have several scouts in random places show up. The scout with the lowest amt of player interaction will be the site that exponentially grow's in 'size' (as in bleeding into other systems) and eventually growing the scout site into becoming the HQ site where the MOM show's up. It will grow into the size of a normal incursion now, then MOM show's up.
Now that the MOM show's up (after a few days, of course), things can get tricky. Upgrade the MOM site into the kinds of things fleet's dread to fight with rats at gates, planets, and everywhere (It is an incursion after-all) annoying the **** out of whomever is in that system. Let's say people want to keep the MOM site up to farm it - start bleeding the incursion further into neighboring systems (with unrewarded incursion Sansha "rats" at planets/gates/etc). As that is taking place, increasing the Assaults into HQ sites (without the MOM component), and Vanguards into Assaults, and so on can take place. Rewards can be based on the amt of sites as well, to curb some of the farming - for example, 8 vanguard sites paying a group of ten, 10 mil ISK, but, if there are 8 vanguard sites, have a 5 mil ISK reward for a group of ten, and so on. The idea is that there would be more work than its worth, to actually develop a blitzing/farming system.
Crazy Idea 2:
Have a WH that's greater than a C6, where the Sansha are ultimately based, and have it be accessable, but, not beatable unless a combination of many things, involving all aspects of Incursions, have been met. Make it practically a suicide mission. People will try and fail over and over, but they'll have fun, since they'd be aware that they're going to go all out, losing their ship. It will inspire massive fleet fights against the strongest of the NPC's, the likes of which nobody has ever seen.
Crazy Idea 3:
Do whatever changes that don't have anything to do with my other Crazy Idea's, and just have a very rare spawn of several battleships with scraming capability, hit a fleet at random. |
Gevlin
EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
89
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 04:43:00 -
[295] - Quote
I played incursion 6 months after it came out I played a Guardian in the Armor fleet. It got very boring after the first few times as people just kept farming the most lucrative incursion over and over again. The DPs just followed down the same a list of targets over and again. If you were even partially sober you could complete an incursion with out any effort or risk.
Things be can to become interesting when we had to do the mining related mission because the other incursion were engaged. - the scampering for mining drones. etc. there was excitement because the list was a little different.
I listen to Ender Black on Podgoo and he had some good ideas. http://www.podgoo.com/podpress_trac/web/388/0/enders_editorials_1.mp3
Vary the trigger spawns, very the fleet types once the Mother ship appears the Rate of return drops for isk per hour as Concord becomes discourages from the Capsulers drawing out the engagement and allow more innocents to be kidnapped. The mobs become stronger as their moral hightens as thier flag ships has no joined the battle.
There should be some battles that Capsulars need to try to escape from. A good story teller in a role playing game needs to provide a varrying amount of challenge to the Player Characters. Trivial 20%, Moderate 20% Challenging 45% Almost too mush 10% Easily over Whelming 5% - I will not only give breaks in the story but will make the players question do I stay or do I leave? Do I take the chance?
I think incusions even though provide an awsome revenue source, I think it needs to be entertainment not a grind. I agree with several people: CCP needs to focus most of eve's recources on FIS, but the development of WIS still needs to continue, just as a slower and more efficient pace. In eve I wish to be more than just a machine. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
413
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 04:52:00 -
[296] - Quote
Here's the problem to the Mom spawn affecting payout.
When a new system is up all the co-ordinated teams are instantly there, they have the logistics and capacity to mass transit across fast. They're in and up and running, most of the time the first 24 hours of a new constellation is all shiny fleets.
Then the more casual player will arrive, the one who only gets a couple of evenings a week to play, or only has time at the weekend to really get any time in a fleet.
The incursion has been up 48 hours, the Mom's spawned. On top of his already low end pay, it's now slashed in half.
Affecting payout in that way is bad. Here's an alternative.
When you complete a site you get credited, like you currently do with LP but you don't get the isk. See the suggestions I put for how a Mom should have a spawn delay timer and then a 72 hour despawn timer once it's up.
If the Mom escapes, no one gets paid. Not isk, not LP, nada, zip, nothing.
When it dies, everyone gets cashed out for a job well done.
You want to farm tears? Suicide gank those Mom fleets, and deny a lot of people their payout, you want risk vs reward? You've got to pull off one hell of an impressive gank, but you want tears? You'll be causing bigger floods than global warming. |
Lan Staz
Aperture Harmonics K162
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 10:05:00 -
[297] - Quote
The rewards should be self-balancing.
You decide up-front how you'd like to see the payouts spread across hisec/lowsec/nullsec and scout/vanguard/assault/hq, so, for example, 12% of incursion payouts should be hisec vanguards, Then the system automatically increases/decreases payouts to maintain this ratio.
Too many people doing hisec vanguards? No problem, because the payouts for that will drop like a stone. If you decide that 7% of payouts should go to lowsec assaults, and almost no-one is doing them, the rewards for the few who do will be massive.
Ultimately the auto-balancing should be extended to include missions, exploration sites, belt rats, etc. |
h4kun4
H.E.A.T
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 14:12:00 -
[298] - Quote
I dont like beeing mad, but now its really annoying...everything is full of Whine, tears and hate... ZOMFG, so many crap I read here...lets spawn double number of Highsec Incursions and double the Cash and LP -.-
No ISK only LP --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! Nerf to Level 4 ISK/h --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! No site spawns when mom spawns --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! Buff Lowsec or 00 Incursions --> SENSELESS! Remove 00 Incursions --> LOL Seriously?
It does not need the brutal way like: "OMG its annoying, lets kill it with a nuke"
It needs balancing, the word balnce indicates small changes to keep the balance. You dont rip your head off when your Haircut sucks...
Easy balancing changes: - Lower the the Vanguard Ticks by 9% - Raise 00 Sanctum and Haven Bountys - Raise LP output a bit (10%) - Raise the strengh of negative effects or raise the time it needs tu blue up the bar No assault changes, no HQ changes, no Moon changes, no whing, no senselss removing of something that is in the way of 00 carebaer logistics...
btw. endless Incursionfarming is not possible, because incursions despawn after 7 Days...you may lower the duration to 4 or 5 days, that may also cause a little nerf |
Dztrgovac
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 14:41:00 -
[299] - Quote
h4kun4 wrote:I dont like beeing mad, but now its really annoying...everything is full of Whine, tears and hate... ZOMFG, so many crap I read here...lets spawn double number of Highsec Incursions and double the Cash and LP -.-
No ISK only LP --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! Nerf to Level 4 ISK/h --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! No site spawns when mom spawns --> NOT ACCEPTABLE! Buff Lowsec or 00 Incursions --> SENSELESS! Remove 00 Incursions --> LOL Seriously?
It does not need the brutal way like: "OMG its annoying, lets kill it with a nuke"
It needs balancing, the word balnce indicates small changes to keep the balance. You dont rip your head off when your Haircut sucks...
Easy balancing changes: - Lower the the Vanguard Ticks by 9% - Raise 00 Sanctum and Haven Bountys - Raise LP output a bit (10%) - Raise the strengh of negative effects or raise the time it needs tu blue up the bar No assault changes, no HQ changes, no Moon changes, no whing, no senselss removing of something that is in the way of 00 carebaer logistics...
btw. endless Incursionfarming is not possible, because incursions despawn after 7 Days...you may lower the duration to 4 or 5 days, that may also cause a little nerf
Looking at all secure sov nullsec incursions not being touched by residents actually makes me think they certainly need a boost.
And HQ and Assault sites need a point and purpose. Effort of gathering more people and actually taking greater risks (way easier for something to go wrong with 40 people involved than with 10) must be rewarded or its pointless.
LP increase , ISK decrease is nice in theory; but fact is that people who had been doing this since release have accumulated stupid amounts of LP. Shifting the weight of payouts from ISK to LP would force them to start utilizing that LP and would crash both CONCORD and all empire faction LP for a considerable amount of time, until those oceans of LP are used up. |
h4kun4
H.E.A.T
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:19:00 -
[300] - Quote
Now Assaults an HQs are not frequently touched in three Reasons like I see it.
1st: Nobody really flys them and nobody really wants to do them because Vanguards are more ISK/h
2nd: Because nobody really flys them, nobody can really FC them
3rd: Most ppl think its dangerous, but its not, if you have an FC who knows how it works (which are rare, because nobody really flys them)
OK, I agree with you in the point that 00 Incs may need a buff, but remove? no sir... In my humble opinion 0.0 Space needs a buff in isk, so that they dont need to steal our incursions with their alts^^ |
|
Shiu Juan
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 17:48:00 -
[301] - Quote
Newbies and Progression
I would like to see more Incursion content for newbies. Newbies have a lack of skill points, and they have a lack of experience. I think a progression could have value for both areas. Several people have mentioned "I haz Drake, and I can't get a fleet invite" "butt-hurt", which I found surprising, as someone who haz Drake with T1 launchers and gets fleet invites. In E-Uni, we have "I haz Caracal, can I get a fleet invite?"
What I am looking for is the progression that some people have been discussing, but not just a progression of more reward and risk in the same ships, but also more skill points, as well as more out-game skill. So, I would like to see things that people can do in small groups with little coordination, (ie you need to apply more damage than one player could normally put out, but that does not require an experienced FC to potentially screw up.) in T1 cruisers. Maybe this is just a matter of clearing gate camps and belts, maybe it is Scout sites. (IIRC, there is no reward for clearing incursion gate camps, other than to deal with the pain in backside of getting by them every time. )
Once you have gotten used to small group activities, you start learning the fleet commands (FC duties, as well as the Need-Energy/Armor/Shield, tagging, etc.). In parallel, you have to start fielding ships with better tanks (both in resist/depth, as well as more and more competent logistics pilots.) Maybe in Scout sites you can either fit a really good local rep, or you only need 1 baby logi (Osprey/Exequror). (eg these Sansha recognize that damage is a threat, but don't realize the problem with repping. I can't really think of another way of avoiding needing a logi pair and as a result blowing up the size of the fleet.)
Some have proposed zero rewards for too many pilots. I would suggest not. I think it should be a viable tactic to blob them with weak ships, it just doesn't pay as well, to lower the barrier to entry. While there is some amount of being able to make up for a lack of SP by spending ISK (using faction gear), there is still a fairly high minimum below which Incursions are just not an option. (particularly, if a Drake is not good enough to get into a fleet.)
Variation and Training
The other thing that I would like to see is that there are several ways of completing sites, and drawing in more skills to do it. ( I have only managed to do Vanguards so far, so I will take examples from that. ) I like that the designed way of completing an NMC is to mine ore, and to do an OTA is to hack. It is not the optimal way it turns out, but that is something to iterate on. Further, I am not sure which one it is, but I have heard that there is a need for sniping ships in one of the Assault sites, so I would like to see it being a decision as to whether you bring in sniper's and just lob stuff at each other while everyone else deals with the near stuff, or whether you use ewar to try to damp the Sansha snipers down to useless or draw them in range of the regular guns. Likewise, it would be nice to see a use for ECM. (I am hesitant to propose that neuting be effective, since some of the laser boats use it as another ET. ) The problem with bringing EWar in is that the boats are generally very squishy, which is fine in PvP, because your fleet can still be successful if you hero-jam, etc. but there is no incentive in Incursions because once the boat gets squashed, you get no payout (and there is less point in ECMing frigate-sized things than battleship-sized things, though I could see the possibility in an NCO of deciding based on who you pick up whether to power through the Mara's reps, take out the Mara if you can get range on it, or assign someone to keep it perma-jammed.) Maybe one could even design a mechanic for making stealth bombers viable, eg allow cloaked activation of the warp gate, or allow warp-in on a fleet member in the pocket.
I would also like to inject a comment on random-ness to shake stuff up in those long incursion sessions: If this is in fact designed to simulate PvP mechanics, there is some value to it being routine and predictable. With PvP, you get a one-time try at a particular situation. Over the course of many encounters, you get a sense of the impact of various strategies in general and what works well in particular situations. There could be some value in having a situation where you can do-over under the same conditions to change stuff out and see what works and start to get an intuitive sense of how things work. (For example, I had been flying an ECM boat for about 2 months before I finally found out how to know whether my jams had landed. If I had a predictable scenario like a mission (or Incursion) where I could see missed jams and successful ones outside the stress of a 1 or 2 minute engagement after an hour long hunt for targets, I would not have had to ask such a "stupid" question.) However, there is definitely some value in having re-runs of very similar conditions, but with variations. Maybe the variations are one or two extra of something that is susceptible to some specialized skill, or some particular counter. So if you go all generic, you can complete slower sometimes, but if you had brought ECM to shut down that extra thing, you could complete faster. Then it is a decision as to whether you go generic damage, or lose one of your DD in favour of an ECM just in case that condition might come up. Likewise, if you could have extra Niarje spawns, maybe it makes sense to fit ECCM on the logis instead of tracking links, or maybe you just take the chance and have good enough coordination to take them down before they jam. Or maybe you have your own ewar to shut them down.
|
ugh zug
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:16:00 -
[302] - Quote
give an incursion an isk pool at the start, once it has exceeded said amount of disbursement the incursion ends. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Shiu Juan
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 18:37:00 -
[303] - Quote
Integration with Other Activities
Finally, some integration with other activities could be nice.
It would be nice if it was worthwhile to salvage (not just loot), the wrecks. I have to admit that I have not actually tried bringing a salvager in recently, but my recollection from SiSi was that the wrecks were totally useless to salvage. I have not tried bringing a salvager because we routinely left a few stuff remaining rats once we achieved our objective, and I did not want to risk a ship to clear them before bringing a Noctis in. If we could have hangers-on (eg newbies) routinely tossing the incursion runners a million or so to clear the last rats and give them a bookmark so they could come in and salvage or mine Lyavite that would generate more integration. (Though maybe the damage is damped down enough that the newbies could also be hired on to clear the last of the pockets for the salvagers and miners.)
I already have lots of T2 and Meta4 in my ship, and have lost some, so I am hopefully making the miners, manufacturers and mission runners happy. I also could not make some of my fits work without faction gear so I am making FW people happy (though it sounds like there are allegations they are becoming too happy and able to charge "excessively high" prices.) In addition, since it is such a pain transporting both the shield and armor ship, I could be hiring freighters to move all my crap. (I have to admit, I assumed the cost would be prohibitive, but I just checked the prices, and it turns out it would be totally affordable given the expected income.) I am sure there are other niche industries that could grow up around incursions that I have not even thought of.
I would just like to conclude with a commentary to the people demanding a shutdown of all economic activity in an area: There are people in high sec because they are the "normal citizens" of the real world. They are there because they like stability, and want to just live their predictable lives fulfilling the needs of other economic factors for a nominal reward. In the "real world" they can cry to their government and demand higher taxes for more policing when the boogie man comes calling. It is all very well to say "the miners will cry and be motivated to Do Something About It" when their nice quiet lives are disrupted, but in practice I can not yet mine the Sansha hulls when they target a Retriever, and they can not fly a combat ship, because they did not specialize for that. In addition, I can not issue a contract for a combat ship pilot to sit around being bored waiting for Sansha rats to arrive in the belts, or to fly convoy with me when transporting goods to market. (I could probably ask around to find out how to issue a mercenary contract to do such a thing, but the margins are too small to make that economically feasible, and seriously what merc is going to take contract when there is a proxy wardec contract to take?) The incentive has to be provided by game mechanics instead. The will not Do Something About It, they will just pick up and move and complain to the CSM asking to get rid of Incursions. |
gfldex
301
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 03:53:00 -
[304] - Quote
George Holden wrote: - gatecamps would support the whole EVE is harsh theme but I guess there is too much crying involved in the implementation of those
I'm not going to judge this proposal, instead I will explain to you what you are asking for.
I build BCs. Lots and lots of BCs. In your average week I build and sell 150 Drakes. I could build and sell 300 but I have problems to get all the trit I need. One freighter with BCs is worth about 3B ISK including the freighter itself. The profit stored in that freighter is about 150M ISK. That means if Sanshas would gank that freighter I would have to ship nearly 20 freighter loads to Jita to recover from that loss.
Since I can't tell what's at the other side of the gate and the Journal is fairly slow I would have to use a scout. Not much of a problem, I have 3 accounts. As I can't go AFK anymore to do the freighter runs (lots and lots of freighter runs) I would have to calculate my prices a little different. How would you like to pay 45M ISK for a Drake?
The problem is not the tears. I would make much more ISK then I do nowadays. The problem is that the Amarr-Jita-pipe is buzzing with life and most players believe that carebearing is boring. (Well it is, but most of the work is done by the AP, so I don't really care personally.)
The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Ammzi
Commanding Wall Wall of Shadow
794
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 11:10:00 -
[305] - Quote
gfldex wrote:
Since I can't tell what's at the other side of the gate
Warning. The system you are about to jump into has an Incursion by hostile Sansha forces. Enter at your own discretion.
Yes/No. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Wyte Ragnarok
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 14:23:00 -
[306] - Quote
Or be clever. Use your journal accompanied by your map when plotting routes. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 23:06:00 -
[307] - Quote
If Incursion farmability was removed, they would become roleplaying content, similar to Cosmos. IMO the payouts are just fine when taking account that its group activity.
Heres my thoughts:
1. Roll back original OTA - Making OTA easier was unnecessary, and rolling it back to hardmode would bring back the balance between VG sites
2. Buff the high grade Concord implants, from +6% to +8% - The +1% they provide over regular +5% isnt really worth the pricetag
3. Stop Nullsec Incursions - If only way getting Revenants was through lowsec Incursions, that would really spice things up i think.
4. NCN needs bit rework
Last brainfart before i go to sleep: Maybe add Concord Warp Disruption bubbles and/or Concord POS modules to the LP-store? |
Jonny Frost
Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 02:20:00 -
[308] - Quote
I feel the need to add my opinion due to the lack of general incursion runners posting. It's either extreme haters or lovers.
I run incursions and have done since release and I am one of the shiny members who enjoy blitzing sites. For "fixing" incursions I find its a little off balance firstly because they're running as they were expected to as far as I am aware.
For balancing? I don't think its fair to say bltizing shouldnt be possible.... A shiny fleet takes an increased risk (what we are supposidly already lacking) to be able to blitz OTA's and no matter what you do in eve, pvp or pve, you want to do it t as well as possible.
Turning incursions into a pvp arena just sounds like wow and players being butt hurt that incursions are so popular. It's the first pve content in the game which is fun and people enjoy. I'm all for the sandbox and griefing but don't moan when game mechanics don't allow you ruin everyone else day.
I understand the arguement of injected isk into the market and its effects and would be all for more LP but please dont just increase the LP and still leave us with the pretty useless concorde LP store we are currently having to deal with.
Incursions only work when people do them. If popularity dropped by half, it wouldn't be long till the entire public network collapses when there is not enough people to run the fleets.
In short: - Balance payouts in VG,ASS and HQ sites to make fleet prefer running the larger sites (this mainly means fixing the broken assault and hq sites) - Scouts shouldn't be changed - otherwise they will just be run solo with alts - not the point of incursions. - Reduce isk payout and increase LP BUT add to the concorde lp store to compensate. - Adding variable spawns and maybe alternative triggers I'm happy with or even removing the name of the site on the beacon to reduce the ability to blitz, but don't remove blitzing all together. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 08:48:00 -
[309] - Quote
I remember someone if not ALOT of people not only in Empire but also in 0.0 space ask for more content and a vqriety of things to do. Well you got it with Wormhole space and the sleepers within them and then comes along Faction warfare and the new upgrades to both and not everyone was satisfied and many cried for more content as many people seem to be looking about and poking behind the story lines that have been put out there. Sleeping dragons like Sansha got poked and well it got introduced as a new story for the Eve universe.
So many stared at it in AWWW!!!
It was until several weeks later that 0.0 realized that the empire kids were making more isk them then and went on a holly tirade cause they got their panties in a wad.
Taking a look back there has always been someone crying about little Johny or Suzy getting a shinier toy then you. but we can be productive and contribute suggestions in how to balance things and threatening to quit eve is not going to solve a thing other then ego being busted with a pin.
This is a sandbox and WE ALL come here to play and have fun cause kicking sand in mittens face is AWSOME or shoving Darius III face in the pooh that ~A~ left behind while the GOONS steal little Suzy's sucker.
Yes the Incursions need to be rebalanced AND the mighty 0.0 alliance need to rethink their strategy if they ever come up with some on how to handle the incursions in their territory. maybe higher some empire incursion runners to come out and deal with it. Yeah i know it interrupts your PVP or tally whackin time but i know you find time for it later and to think Incursions out in 0.0 are worth more. Maybe your guys need to take time to read and figure out a stragey...oh hold that would require rmoving head from butt.
lol
Good Luck |
T'ealk O'Neil
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 13:04:00 -
[310] - Quote
I know a lot of people like the incursions, and I'm fine with that, but for those of us that are not interested (even just at that moment), can we PLEASE have an option to hide the Incursion Information, and close the chat tab associated with it. It should be made an option in the new neocom. |
|
Demonfuge Malevolent
Energy Core 2 V.I.R.A.L.
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:48:00 -
[311] - Quote
Get CONCORD involved. Seriously. The one thing that confused the bejeezles out of newer players is why CONCORD acts like sansha are its greatest pals. Maybe make incursion systems have no CONCORD (the sansha got 'em) or have the occasional CONCORD vessel attack the sansha and die spectacularly (leaving no loot). Whatever, or at least just explain in neon lights why CONCORD has ****ed off. |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Energy Core 2 V.I.R.A.L.
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:48:00 -
[312] - Quote
T'ealk O'Neil wrote:I know a lot of people like the incursions, and I'm fine with that, but for those of us that are not interested (even just at that moment), can we PLEASE have an option to hide the Incursion Information, and close the chat tab associated with it. It should be made an option in the new neocom.
Agree with that, too. |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Energy Core 2 V.I.R.A.L.
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 16:49:00 -
[313] - Quote
I have no idea how incursions work in player null, but if they could take systems if they "won" that would be uber ;) |
Liisi Rukila
Express Distribution
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 18:11:00 -
[314] - Quote
sacrificiallamb Sasen wrote:What i would like to see changed in incursions
4 make all site harder i want to go into a site knowing that i could well lose my ship ~(at mo i can go into site go make coffee go afk for 5 10mins and still come back to a ship, i want to feel like iam in a hostile place
So... Not the penalize honesty, but say that in Fleet chat where the FC and/or Logi can hear you, and you may very well get your wish without CCP changing anything. :-)
I never thought about the implications of the AI like that. Capsuleers have to use heuristics when choosing targets. They take into account potential threat, squishiness, ship value, or wrong place in the alphabet. The AI has much better data analysis and coordination and can evaluate actual threat, and cares not a whit about ship value or the alphabet. (I have heard that Sleepers place a high value on squishiness.) If you sit like a lump in space waiting to get paid, the AI can just leave you alone, and deal with you later, since you are really not getting in the way of their plans. On the other heand, a PVP-er will either want to pre-empt the possibility of you turning on your guns, or want to see tears when you lose your ship Just 'Cuz.
So, here is a proposal to deal with the trend toward shininess: Let's have a new Sansha CovOps ship type with ship scanners. It uncloaks, scans the opposition ships, cloaks up, and passes on the information to the Sansha FC as to which ship has the most dangerous, most expensive fittings to let it factor that into which ship is called primary. Non-shiny fleets just ignore it, pilots of shiny ships take it out first regardless of the FC yelling at them to take down the jamming/scramming ships first. There is a good conflict driver. :-) |
gfldex
306
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 20:00:00 -
[315] - Quote
Ammzi wrote: Warning. The system you are about to jump into has an Incursion by hostile Sansha forces. Enter at your own discretion.
Yes/No.
I then go and get my scout. As I wrote I have no problem with that. I actually like profits! The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
Dztrgovac
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 20:02:00 -
[316] - Quote
Demonfuge Malevolent wrote:Get CONCORD involved. Seriously. The one thing that confused the bejeezles out of newer players is why CONCORD acts like sansha are its greatest pals. Maybe make incursion systems have no CONCORD (the sansha got 'em) or have the occasional CONCORD vessel attack the sansha and die spectacularly (leaving no loot). Whatever, or at least just explain in neon lights why CONCORD has ****ed off.
Your two suggestions are orders of magnitude from each other. First one is "make incursion constellations into lowsec", second is "add a bit of fluff and some loot".
Removing concord from highsec incursions would make them nearly equal to lowsec ones, except highsec ones paying less, and gankers becoming completely safe by just jumping into ordinary highsec system next door. Very few people would do those as it would be more risky and metagameable then ordinary nearly completely ignored lowsec or 00 incursions.
Crazy suggestion for 00 incursions. Other than increasing payouts significantly above current (not 10x, but maybe up to 2x). also create one more useless sov upgrade for which no one knows how exactly it works. Sansha incursiosn attracting beacon. Increases the chance of incursions spawning in this constellation. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 20:52:00 -
[317] - Quote
I've been ACTIVELY trying to form Assault fleets over the past 3 weeks and of course we always see the same thing in those systems: THE STACKING OF NCN's... 2 reasons why: they always force ship refitting which can kill fleets and they take 2-3 times longer then the NCS & OCF. A buff to these sites' payout over the ISK/hour of Vanguards would help cohesion of fleets a bit but the NCN's still almost need 1 room to disappear due to how long they take to take down. NCN's are the old pre-blitz OTA's of Vanguards
|
DocKado
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:22:00 -
[318] - Quote
TLDR:
Nothing is up with incursions
they are creating emergent game play
people are trying to do them quicker and get more isk from it via doing it
people feel agrieved that this isnt fair
they make a pact to try disrupt them ASAP.
High sec is just as unsafe as low and null sec (infact you do not see many 4 bill awoxers in null)
Missed anything?
Proactive idea to argument - fix null sec so the null sec tears are not aimed at what they can not do in null sec.
Fire all CSM for complete incompetence on this issue - you are all like Matinnni's ***** and not everyones end game is to live and get boned in null sec by all you CEO's who moooch most of the isk your alliance sits on via moons.....PS: Goons although can make a killing in their cluster **** world still have the need to cap every low sec moon their is.....
Balancing is needed there not cutting peoples throats at something that is giving many the ability to kill a goon....
ALL HAIL KILL GOON CAMPAIGNS THE TUMOUR OF THIS GAME IS ALL YOU CLUSTER **** CRY BABIES |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
375
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 06:04:00 -
[319] - Quote
ITT: People who understand neither nullsec mechanics or how the in-game economy works.
PS: Incursions in nullsec will never get farmed much because of the cynojam effect, which shuts down out jump bridges, and prevents capships from jumping. The problem isn't the payouts(tho VGs apparently do pay out too much compared to the rest of the incursion) its the lack of risk(and risk of an error isn't real risk) and farmability, which are tied together. You can farm them, and as long as you don't screw up significantly, you are fine. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 09:37:00 -
[320] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:ITT: People who understand neither nullsec mechanics or how the in-game economy works.
PS: Incursions in nullsec will never get farmed much because of the cynojam effect, which shuts down out jump bridges, and prevents capships from jumping. The problem isn't the payouts(tho VGs apparently do pay out too much compared to the rest of the incursion) its the lack of risk(and risk of an error isn't real risk) and farmability, which are tied together. You can farm them, and as long as you don't screw up significantly, you are fine.
It goes back to the statement i made earlier. The might 0.0 alliance command type guys with the leader playing pivot man needs to form a strategy but that would end up allowing a confident person into the command who might...just might threaten the command staff of the alliance thumb hold on the renters to disappear. Yes i know it involves alot of thinking beyond the PVP |
|
Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society ESS Empire
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 13:49:00 -
[321] - Quote
I just wanted to say that this is a very delicate subject and I would advise and urge CCP strongly to make changes with caution and careful thought.
If you change incursions, what will your changes affect in your player base numbers? How will it affect null sec versus high sec and what about low sec in between? What will this relate to wormhole space?
I would have to say those questions are the biggest entirely.
You do realize if your nerf incursions too much you're going to have the makings of a riot on your hands. You nerfed null sec to where it isn't profitable, only to the power block alliances because of moons. Anomalies are pretty much crap unless you are fortunate to get something in the ballpark of a -0.7 to a -1.0. And even then it isn't that much to cheer for considering how the economy in null sec is. Over priced, few and far between, jump freighter fees, etc., etc.. Even people from null sec jump clone up to high sec and run incursions all the time so they can make their isk now.
I think possibly things are good how they are in high sec. Beef low sec up a little bit on the incursion front, and redouble your efforts to beef it up in nullsec. Nullsec should be where incursions are the absolute craziest. No concord, lawless space, so why shouldn't incursions be insane, and in relation the payouts higher in the more lawless areas.
Either way. Don't **** this up and continue on with business as usual then find something else to screw up --- Or do, I don't mind mocking daily failure. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 16:48:00 -
[322] - Quote
Bears care, haters hate, warmongers monger and CCP is in between rock and hard place trying to satisfy all customers.
I have listed few suggested fixes:
1. Put MOM on a timer -Its already on a timer. People want it to despawn faster? If Incursions were cycling faster throughout highsec, it would just become more frustrating to chase the around
2. Reduce payouts -If Incursions were injecting too much isk into economy, CCP would just cut them and then release announcement about it, just like they did with anomalys. Not every single incursion pick-up-group can earn +100mil/h, so until CCP comes forward with ISK flow data, we really cant make any assumptions if Incursions pay too much or not.
3. Increase LP payout -LP costs 1000isk/point, so 11-man fleet earns 8,4mil *new* isk / VG-site if they spend their LPs If incursions paid only LP, then players would have to earn ISK elsewhere to cash in their loyalty points. And that would break Incursions rather than fix anything.
4. Remove farmability, stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned - They are farmable only by players with 10man gangs. And they have very limited availability. Removing farmability would also remove large social aspect from the game. Someone along the thread said that Incursions are the first PVE content in Eve that is actually fun.
5. Increase variability, add risk - It is PVE content after all, after awhile it will become predictable... Although i wouldnt mind if there was bit difference between waves
6. Remove ability to blitz sites - Ive suggested few times to roll back the OTA back to the hardmode. But still, i think that group of players with high equipment and skill, should be able to blitz the sites. Not all incursion runners fly Legions and Nightmares. For Assaults, the NCN is the real bottleneck which should be adressed. I dont have experience in HQs so cant comment those.
7. Make high sec Incursions unsafe, removing CONCORD from high sec incursion -I dont think that people suggesting this are really concerned about Incursions...
None of these wouldnt really fix anything. But then again, i think that theres nothing wrong with high sec incursions. If the complaining wasnt about Incursions, then it would be about lvl4 and how they should be moved to lowsec.
|
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
411
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:23:00 -
[323] - Quote
I'm going to guess that this is outside the scope of your goals on fixing incursions - but let me throw this out there.
Incursions in Low Sec (and probably null sec) provide a HUGE GLOWING BEACON for the whole world to see and come down on you.
If you made these anamolies scannable with the ship scanner (and probes) rather than just easily visible it would make the PVP less of a overall risk deterrent - but easily a PVP experience.
You'd walk into a system, hit your scanner, find a site and warp to it. A committed Incursion fleet would have a dedicated scan probe out there (you only need one to find anamolies) - and they can then scan, warp to the one they want, etc. It doesn't provide a 100% PVP deterrent at all, but it gives a greater sensation of safety moving around. In some ways it also becomes more dangerous as well.
The suggestion isn't cohesive and requires some thought - but review this for at least Low Sec sites. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:09:00 -
[324] - Quote
Magic Crisp wrote:No ISK payouts please. The economy in eve is getting more and more rich, and (especially highsec) incursions doesn't meet the isk/reward ratio we have all over the game. Add some shiny stuff to the LP, remove ISK payout, boost LP. That'll do good to the economy, and maybe even help to stabilize the PLEX prices. Having only LP items will circulate the ISK, and not bring more into the game. We have more than enough money drains in eve, we need more sinks (and not just in 00 for the sov stuff).
Also the spawning of the mom disabling site respawning seems like a good idea. Also, I don't know how does it work currently (only tried incursions once in null), but players shouldn't get some final bonus payouts when the mom is despawned and hasn't been killed. Quite the opposite, payouts should be held back, if the mom is not killed in that incursion. Therefore, people are forced to kill the mom.
Also, the despawning of the mom could receive a randomized timer, varying at a medium scale, like 1 to 4 days from spawning. That way players can't farm the sites endlessly, if they need their payouts. So they'll be forced to kill it soon.
About the waves, randomize them, even the triggers. Triggers should be completely random, and even include some "first shot landing" types. That'll add some additional risk. Add jammers, neuts, webs, disruptors, painters, dampeners to the NPCs, so the incursion carebears will need some brains to deal with the sites.
Make it fair, and stop putting even more isk into the game, make it circulate, that'll do a lot better to the economy.
Risk vs Reward is a good scale. But you seem to ignore ISK/Time totally. if you decrease up time of incursions and include risk of no payout of incursion isk you increase risk dramatically. If you want this incursions would have to pay out much, much more.
Changing the balance of the rewards from ISK and LP with ISK sink to primary ISK sink with LP Store Items you reduce value of LP in general. From your viewpoint I guess you are hoping this will reduce inflation and make your sanctum isk more worth.
A inflation in LP in the universe available will decrease value of LP in general. At least at first, players may adapted and do something else IF there are other options, though right now mining prices are more or less bot controlled, which leaves not much options for high sec bears, at least I can not see them right now.
Overall I guess you are thinking along the same lines and are trying to achieve to become more wealthy via game changes instead of actually doing something in game. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:17:00 -
[325] - Quote
Alec Freeman wrote:Half the payout of vanguards so they deliver about 5mill per site with 10 people. This wouldnt break incursions they would still be more profitable than mission running and it would encourage folks to run the more dangourous assaults / HQs for isk.
Have you done the math for this really? Because your results seems way of the truth, vanguards do not pay even close to twice as much as l4. Not even in a shiny, shiny blitz fleet. You seem to have forgotten opportunity costs and logistics ... they are not for free in 0.0 and they are neither in high sec incursions. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 22:29:00 -
[326] - Quote
E man Industries wrote:Pay out is fine but they need more risk and more variables. They are boring and static.
Also they need to stay in one place longer.
I can only play for about 2h a night. Having to fly 20-30 jumps takes a large part of my play period and is boring. EvE shouldn't just have content for people who can play for 6h a time!
This does not mean I want them easier, or simpler, or less intresting though. They should provide and intresting contnent. Increasing the randomness would be one great help.
Another would be to increase the sancha presence and make them harder to fight out of a system. The snacha control is a joke in empire since the snacha just get farmed....
Make it so we feel like we are fighting not farming. Make it harder to move the progression bar. Make the progression bar ties to certain types of missions. Maybe speciall mission that we would have to form mini mom fleets for or the bar swings and gives us all a heavy debuff.
I think you are here on something. Multiple super and cap fleet spawns on different stages of the incursions sounds like a good idea, together with longer overall time for each incursions. If you increase the time a incursion is up from 4-8 hours (if actually someone is aiming to finish them right now) to 4-8 days balance with travel time would be much better, and if those super spawns will make vanguard and assault sites stop spawning or even better decrease spawning of them by about 50% everyone will just happy nuke those motherships and other cap fleets sansha bring to the field. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 23:04:00 -
[327] - Quote
kinda nice seeing the tears of 0.0 crying but playing in both is so much fun. when you get your panties out of a wad and complaining that someone just tea balled ya and do some actual reading on Sansha and the history involved you realize he is not trying to hide from folks but sending in drone armies to capture more people seeking revenge and GODs work in his eyes that we all have strayed from the path and that his path is the only salvation anyone has within the New Eden.
Oh hold it that have to invole words and not picturs for them ~A~ guys and Something awful to point out the emphasis to the goons while Orphnage ganks those in jita.
Making them scannable sites....screw that your an idiot for thinking only WAR can be only scanned like a Sanctum.
Come on CCP....HIT THE SWITCH AND DOUBLE THE INCURSION RATES!! |
zzlep Alduin
EvE Cookie Collective
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:44:00 -
[328] - Quote
DocKado wrote:TLDR:
Nothing is up with incursions
they are creating emergent game play
people are trying to do them quicker and get more isk from it via doing it
people feel agrieved that this isnt fair
they make a pact to try disrupt them ASAP.
High sec is just as unsafe as low and null sec (infact you do not see many 4 bill awoxers in null)
Missed anything?
Nope think you've summed it up pretty well....
DocKado wrote: Proactive idea to argument - fix null sec so the null sec tears are not aimed at what they can not do in null sec.
Fire all CSM for complete incompetence on this issue - you are all like Matinnni's ***** and not everyones end game is to live and get boned in null sec by all you CEO's who moooch most of the isk your alliance sits on via moons.....PS: Goons although can make a killing in their cluster **** world still have the need to cap every low sec moon their is.....
Balancing is needed there not cutting peoples throats at something that is giving many the ability to kill a goon....
ALL HAIL KILL GOON CAMPAIGNS THE TUMOUR OF THIS GAME IS ALL YOU CLUSTER **** CRY BABIES
TBH all cluster **** alliances need trimming there is too much ISK to be made in null sec and tbh it is far safer. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
375
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:59:00 -
[329] - Quote
I just realized something.... With a small amount of tuning, incursions would be both self correcting, and a mechanism to push people out of highsec.
They are, without a doubt, a draw for new players to come to eve. However, if competition for them were actually fierce enough to drive people out, alot of them would be likely to go to lowsec to run them. After all, they are already organize with a fleet that, composition-wise, should be able to hold its own. Carriers and orca's are not that hard to come by, so just jump your ships out in carriers, refit your orca to a non-travel fit, and go into the incursion. You keep the orcas handy so you can swap for a pvp ship when people come in.
If you build a community doing this, you get an automagical constellation-wide intel network, done the same way 0.0 alliances set up our intel.
Right now, tho, the way the competition system works apparently balances so every gets isk in the end, due to trading most dps role back and forth. Make it where final blow gets the reward, and really make it competitive Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:33:00 -
[330] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:I just realized something.... With a small amount of tuning, incursions would be both self correcting, and a mechanism to push people out of highsec. DN: YAWN YET ANOTHER PERSON TRYING TO FORCE LO SEC ON OTHERS They are, without a doubt, a draw for new players to come to eve. DN: NEWISH PLAYERS ITS TUFF FOR NEW PLAYERS TO CRACK INTO FLEETS WITH NON SHINEY SHIPS UNFORTUNELY However, if competition for them were actually fierce enough to drive people out, alot of them would be likely to go to lowsec to run them. DN: YAWN YET ANOTHER PERSON TRYING TO FORCE LO SEC ON OTHERS... After all, they are already organize with a fleet that, composition-wise, should be able to hold its own. Carriers and orca's are not that hard to come by, so just jump your ships out in carriers, refit your orca to a non-travel fit, and go into the incursion. You keep the orcas handy so you can swap for a pvp ship when people come in. If you build a community doing this, you get an automagical constellation-wide intel network, done the same way 0.0 alliances set up our intel. DN: THERE ARE ALREADY A COUPLE INCURSION INTEL NETWORKS/COMMUNITIES YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT THAT DUNNO HOW MUCH THEY ARE LIKE THE NULL SEC ONES TBH... THE INTEL NETWORKS ARE NOT CONSTELLATION WIDE BUT EMPIRE WIDE Right now, tho, the way the competition system works apparently balances so every gets isk in the end, due to trading most dps role back and forth. Make it where final blow gets the reward, and really make it competitive
DN: INTERESTING IDEA BUT THEN YOU'LL HAVE LEGIONS JUST SITTING ON GATES UNTIL THE SITE IS 1/2 TO 3/4 FINISHED THEN THEY'LL CHARGE IN GETTING THE FINAL BLOWS DUE TO THIER FAST LASER CYCLE RATES |
|
Bayushi Tamago
Solar Deliberative Games of Divinity
23
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 21:19:00 -
[331] - Quote
TBH, haven't read through thread, sorry if my ideas have already stated.
Idea 1: What if LP was removed from hisec incursions and isk payouts delayed until the mom went down?* A lot of the problem with incursions is the farming**, which leads to abnormal isk inflation (increasing costs of things etc [economic explination goes here]). If you delay the payouts until the mom is taken down in hisec, then people should be more motivated to clear the incursion and move on to the next one so they get paid, and if this does reduce the amount of farming, then isk inflation will also go down since there is only a decent isk sink to counter incursions if a shiny ship goes down in a site.
Idea 2: Another thing to do would be to make staging systems' sites t1frigs to cruisers and t2 frigs/destroyers only. This doesn't remove the farming problem, however it does open this up to newer players who want to be part of it. The elitism of some hisec runners is palpable and is not healthy for the game.
Idea 3: Once the incursion reaches the point where the mom spawns because the system control is high enough, discontinue other site spawns [allowing sites in progress to be completed], so that (potentially in combination with idea 1) players are forced to take down the mom.
*I don't want to appear to want to force people to go to losec to get LP/immediate payout, but something does need to be done with hisec incursions. Not like the current increased reward mechanic is making people go down there, so I doubt this would either.
**The farming problem isn't completely because people run sites for multiple hours/day, but because there is no incentive to move on. What I understand is that most site runners will run sites until they get a certain amount of isk and then stop running sites for the day. The hardcore farmers do exist, however, it's not just individual players making farming possible, but the group as a whole interacting with a broken system.
|
El Geo
Pathfinders.
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 02:17:00 -
[332] - Quote
didnt know there was a thread
even the playing field all incursion systems drop sec by 0.1 (thats by 0.1 not to 0.1 and only temporarily for the runtime of the incursion)
> lowest any highsec incursion would go would be 0.4 so no reactor pos etc (could even put in non anchoring in incursion areas) > players would want to just run any incursions with systems in lowsec quickly (hopefully stop alot of farming) > cant hotdrop in incursion areas anyway and would give those sansha loyalists and the greifers everyone loves to hate a fair playing ground |
crazyman32
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 12:35:00 -
[333] - Quote
Keep Vanguard payouts the same just change the hisec payout graph such that a smaller fleet gets the max payout instead of the current 10 man fleet. This could cause shiny fleets to try run these site with less ships thus increasing the completion time of a site and at the same time would allow larger less shiny fleets to successfully compete with them. |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 19:49:00 -
[334] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:I just realized something.... With a small amount of tuning, incursions would be both self correcting, and a mechanism to push people out of highsec. They are, without a doubt, a draw for new players to come to eve. However, if competition for them were actually fierce enough to drive people out, alot of them would be likely to go to lowsec to run them. After all, they are already organize with a fleet that, composition-wise, should be able to hold its own. Carriers and orca's are not that hard to come by, so just jump your ships out in carriers, refit your orca to a non-travel fit, and go into the incursion. You keep the orcas handy so you can swap for a pvp ship when people come in. If you build a community doing this, you get an automagical constellation-wide intel network, done the same way 0.0 alliances set up our intel. Right now, tho, the way the competition system works apparently balances so every gets isk in the end, due to trading most dps role back and forth. Make it where final blow gets the reward, and really make it competitive
pretty sure ccp designed them in this way, too many people contesting sites and some fleets will disband. some won't and them fleets might turn into a random group roaming lowsec or a WH. good fun when 20 people warp to a gate and jump through to kill some lazy gate campers that thought they were in for some easy kills. getting the balance right so people stay interested in incursions and pushing people (who have disposable isk) to do other stuff is hard and from what i've seen ccp have it just right.
assaults and hq's need buffing a little payment wise and some hq's need making a little harder - you don't broadcast when your yellowboxed because your dual boxing or whatever and not paying 100% attention your ship deserves to die. vg and incursions are fine as they are in hi sec, players can police them if they think hi sec players are making too much isk. if the hi sec players don't like it they better learn to fight back. after all this is a sandbox right? |
Wolodymyr
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
40
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 21:54:00 -
[335] - Quote
Well one quick fix to help the economy is to have incursions only give out LP. People will still make money selling LP store goods but it'll make incursions into an isk sink rather than an isk faucet.
Also there need to be ""noobcursions" something that can be run with 2 to 4 people with the same payout and difficulty of running level 1, 2, and 3 missions in highsec.
Right now people running incursions are either in pimped out faction battleships or T2 logi. So the incursion FCs, who are usually part of the big incursion running cartels, tell noobs that if they want to get in on the action they either need enough isk to get a pimp fit faction battleship or enough skill points to fly a T2 logistics cruiser.
I always imagined incursions existing as a way to get newer players involved in group activities, not for highsec carebears to grind isk more efficiently. |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 00:34:00 -
[336] - Quote
Wolodymyr wrote:Well one quick fix to help the economy is to have incursions only give out LP. People will still make money selling LP store goods but it'll make incursions into an isk sink rather than an isk faucet.
Also there need to be ""noobcursions" something that can be run with 2 to 4 people with the same payout and difficulty of running level 1, 2, and 3 missions in highsec.
Right now people running incursions are either in pimped out faction battleships or T2 logi. So the incursion FCs, who are usually part of the big incursion running cartels, tell noobs that if they want to get in on the action they either need enough isk to get a pimp fit faction battleship or enough skill points to fly a T2 logistics cruiser.
I always imagined incursions existing as a way to get newer players involved in group activities, not for highsec carebears to grind isk more efficiently.
the economy is not suffering...inflation is well within expectations
|
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
628
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 03:45:00 -
[337] - Quote
So again for those who weren't reading the earlier posts. The only near term changes needed are.
#1 Force Vanguard sites to be completed for payout. Clear the field
#2 Increase payouts for higher than Vanguard sites.
Bingo! Incursions are better balanced after that. No need to nuke them from orbit as the payouts and LP are mostly good to go! |
kenxi
GLOBAL DISSENSION KRYSIS.
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 17:03:00 -
[338] - Quote
Incursion views:
High sec players who don't Incursion: What is this Incursion thing you keep talking about? I can't be bothered to fit a ship and fly over there.
High sec players who do Incursion: Why are you kicking over my sand castle? I don't have the time for large null sec alliances as I have a life and these are the only way for me to make real isk.
Lowsec players Yay please nurf highsec we need more targets!
Null sec Nurf highsec we need more players and my plex price is going up cause normal people with a life can buy them HELP! I have no job and live in my parents basement........... O and don't forget to give me more isk for my null sec Incursion!
CCP------ Out to lunch and siding with nullsec
P.S I'm on the nullsec side
Also since when do capsuleers give a flying !#@$# about the people on the planet? Last I heard they were pointing guns at the civilians to get them to move so they could setup their PI Stuff The % of morons is always greater than what you would expect it to be unless you always assume 100% of people are morons |
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos En Garde
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 23:18:00 -
[339] - Quote
Slash isk payouts by 50% and double the lp payout |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
29
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 00:06:00 -
[340] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Ninavask wrote:Here is what should happen: -Lower isk payout for vanguard sites by 30-40 percent
As long as you add up time of incursions by at least 300 percent I am fine with that. If you don-¦t I will just run l4s like I have done while the interdiction lasted. Makes no difference for me, I am making the same amount of isk in both, though I enjoy grinding in fleets more than solo grind ... ;-) |
|
Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 00:43:00 -
[341] - Quote
Now, I've not read through all 17 pages in this thread, but having looked at other Incursion related threads it is clear that the mom site spawns way too soon. As this site is spawned at the first time the influence bar is completely blued, then there should be done some tweaking to make sure the sanshas don't lose their influence so fast.
As it is today, we have the agreements between the incursion communities to leave the mom alone until the incursion hits it's withdrwing state. This to make sure more people gets to join in on the fun, as the majority of people who wants to run/try incursions would be left out, if the whole thing could be killed off in just a few hours... And also, the Sansha wouldn't do a full fleged invasion of an entire constellation if they had so little resources that they could be kicked out again 4-5 hours later, that just doesn't make sense.
So, I don't think the mom site should be triggered solely by the influence rate alone.
The way I percieve the mom site, it's looks more like a Sansha reinforcement fleet that will safeguard the witdrawal of the entire incursion fleet, back to Sansha (or Jove) space. Rather then the Sansha commander arriving to help since they are failing so badly (or something)
Based on how you see the different sites throughout an incursion constellation, you see lots of individual operations (each site as an individual operation but working together for the common objectives of the incursion as a whole). These operations continue to be established and run regardless of the influence level, and even though the mom has arrived to the constellation, it's presence has no impact on the security forces or anything else in each site... So I find it hard to believe the purpose of the mom's presence is to help out the active operation, to fend off capsuleer attacks.
My proposal to change the conditions for when and if the mom arrives: - When the incursion itself is spawned, a timer is started. - The timer is set to a random time during the second half of the time the incursion is in it's "Mobilized" state - If the sansha influence (red bar) has been less then a certain level (for example 30%) on average from the moment the incursion started and until the set timer expires, then the mom arrives in preparation of the "Withdrawing" phase. If not, Sansha doesn't deem it nessecary for a reinforcement to help with the extraction of their forces. - If the mom doesn't spawn, but the player influence (blue bar) reaches 100% during the "Withdrawing" phase, an alternative site is spawned (more on that below).
' Requirements for spawning the mom in low-sec and 0.0 would have to be different since it would be harder to maintain a high player influence over time in these areas.
Alternative end-site: If conditions for spawning the mom site is not met, but the player influence is maxed out during the "Withdrawing" phase, a new site is spawned in the Headquarter system. This site would be a rendezvous site for the sansha forces to gather up in force, in preparation for the extraction wormhole. It only spawns with 100% player influence bechause the remaining sanshas feel the need to gather in force to defend their new abductees when they don't have the mom to safeguard the extraction (since that wasn't deemed nessesary at the earlier time and during the withdrawing phase it would be too late for Sansha to send the mom fleet in).
With regards to dfficulty, the site should be about the same as the mom-site. Completing this site will end the incursion, just like killing the mom. BUT... Since this does not involve killing the leader of the incursion and his flagship, only 50% of the LP pool is payed out.
Site variety: Also, when it comes to sites throghout an incursion I would like to see some more variation. Like many others have said before, having more randomness to the spawns in a site would be welcome to prevent making them too boring, but I would also like to see more then 3 types of sites in each tier incursion system. Variation is good.
I'd also like to see changes to the spawns throughout the incursion. - When the incursion is in it's "Established" phase, you'd see a somewhat medium activity level. Sites would not spawn as fast as they do today. At this time the Sansha forces are more focused at attacking the planets to establish control on the ground and get ready for the abductions. - When the incursion goes into "Mobilizing", you enter the peak activity in space and sites spawn at the rate they do today. - When the incursion is "Witdrawing" the activity level is low, since most sansha forces are preparing to get out.
|
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
629
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 04:57:00 -
[342] - Quote
Lilan Kahn wrote:Slash isk payouts by 50% and double the lp payout
No thanks. That will crash the LP market and make Incursions a ghost town.
It's a nuke from orbit that is unwanted. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
198
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 10:05:00 -
[343] - Quote
Fearless M0F0 wrote:According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed:
- In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011
- Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake)
- Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy.
so
1/3 incursions--- guess thats all sec lvl's. whats the break down accross sec lvl's?? 1/6 missions--- empire mostly?? 1/2 ratting--- 0.0??
maybe adjust the vg to be a bit harder and not so easily farmed and they should be about it for balanced CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
|
saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
37
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 10:58:00 -
[344] - Quote
Incursions are fine, they are content open to EVERY player. Its thier own descression wether they participate or not. CCP shouldnt have to cater to people who are too stupid or too stubbon to participate in a freely open available aspect of the game |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 11:13:00 -
[345] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:Fearless M0F0 wrote:According to CCP_Diagoras twitter feed:
- In average, incursion runners made 300m/month (10m/day) on the last 3 months of 2011
- Total incursion payouts are about twice as much as total mission payouts (and they should, since you can't solo a vanguard in a Drake)
- Incursions add about a third of the isk bounties add to the eve economy.
so 1/3 incursions--- guess thats all sec lvl's. whats the break down accross sec lvl's?? 1/6 missions--- empire mostly?? 1/2 ratting--- 0.0?? maybe adjust the vg to be a bit harder and not so easily farmed and they should be about it for balanced
1/3 is bit higher than i had though, but i think that is acceptable portion since the Incursions dont add minerals into market.
Edit. I guess that doesnt take account the LP-store isk sink? |
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos En Garde
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 17:39:00 -
[346] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Lilan Kahn wrote:Slash isk payouts by 50% and double the lp payout No thanks. That will crash the LP market and make Incursions a ghost town. It's a nuke from orbit that is unwanted.
brings it in line isk wise with mission runners with slightly less lp but slightly more isk |
TheLast Poofighter
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 18:21:00 -
[347] - Quote
Rather than reduce the isk/LP rewards - why not just contrict the pipe a bit? Limit 1 incursion constellation in High Sec, 2 in Low Sec, 3 in Null. I think fewer sites in highsec could make for some interesting sandbox dynamics.
Or offer the option for real world rewards like tacos and beer. Or vodka and bread... |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.04 20:17:00 -
[348] - Quote
TheLast Poofighter wrote:Rather than reduce the isk/LP rewards - why not just contrict the pipe a bit? Limit 1 incursion constellation in High Sec, 2 in Low Sec, 3 in Null. I think fewer sites in highsec could make for some interesting sandbox dynamics.
Or offer the option for real world rewards like tacos and beer. Or vodka and bread...
the idea sounds good but one problem. you are suggesting to get more people who have no desire to go out into low sec or 0.0 space.
Yes i know empire space is care bear land but you also seem to forget that the mighty 0.0 alliance hide behind their wall of Blues doing their care bear stuff. The risks are there for both and many people are tired of the BS politics that go on out there forcing them to go back is wrong. CCP released this content for everyone. i think everyone just needs to grow and grab a cotex that are still crying about things and get over it and move on. |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 11:29:00 -
[349] - Quote
Ok, here is my stand:
Incursions are currently the only fun group activity in high (where some paying subscribers like to life), after Level 5 Missions already have been send to low (and into oblivion), and group mining in the current state more or less fall under special interest.
People complain a lot about the risk versus reward aspect. I guess they should think about the difference of risk, if you either loose a cheap mostly insured ship versus loosing a faction/officier t2 rigged ship. e.g. Loosing one good fitted vindicator in an incursion means 20 times the loss of someone blowing up his cane in pvp. Ship looses in incursions do happen either due to ganking, logistics going off line or being drunken. Incursion pay outs are already limited, due to respawn rate. In average I assume a dps ship in incursions is worth > 600m.
It is part of the fun to make expensive "optimum" ships. If the ship blow up to often or too easily no sane person would use such expensive item, which would eve make a much less fun to play.
People often bring up the numbers a consistent bad ass fleet could make (which is great money), than they forget to mention overhead times ( getting to the system, waiting for a fleet to form (some not skilled out pilots actually wait for hours, if they get in at all), waiting for others while they visit the bathroom, drink, fight with their gf's, bringing out their dogs, ... ) and the fact that on good hours the areas are totally over farmed, meaning that most sites are contested and the winner takes it all. Actually my numbers show me, that my payout is only slightly better than l4 mission grinding, and way worse than ninja exploration.
My personal ideas:
ISK: a) buff up payout for 5 man sites a little b) reduce vanguard payouts c) buff up assaults d) moms are fine
Spawn rate: waiting for new spawns is boring. If you really need this to limit income a better way would be to reduce payout per hour and system to a fixed number, so that if the area is over farmed the payouts are reduced. mom spawn should come later. I like the idea that you would need tags e.g. 10 tags per participant to enter which before have to be farmed from assault and vanguards. That would limit any kind of ninjas from entering.
Variants: More types or more complex sites would be great. Currently most sites can be done without much moving around. Forcing the fleet to move around possible having to split up could be fun. E.g. structures that give fleet bonuses to the sansha worth enough to make you think about removing them, bomb deployments (slow enough so that you actually can evade them), officers spawning that bring a certain fleet tactic with them, so that you have to regroup to avoid that ...
Kill death sites: Make a new type of site that has a great chance of killing even the most skilled and best fitted entering ships (e.g. 15-20% kill rate). That on the other hand do pay out enough to make this loss worth it. Discourage use of any expensive ships, either by entering limits e.g. max t1 cruisers or even frig only. |
Degren
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 15:30:00 -
[350] - Quote
Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P |
|
El Geo
Pathfinders.
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 17:45:00 -
[351] - Quote
Degren wrote:Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P
+1 all systems sec in constellation drop by 0.1 |
Jerika Bodet
Kingdom of Glory
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 18:44:00 -
[352] - Quote
Ya know, it's always been said that CCP favors the Amarr, and Incursions is no exception. My meaning here is, Incursions are predominantly in Amarr or Gallente space. with the rare occassion in Caldari or minmatar space. Pretty much everytime I look, ah yes, yet another Incursion in Amarr... the Default.
How about spreading the love to other factions on a more balanced "Random" Incursion invasion. I don't know if there's a specific story behind the Sansha, that hate the Amarr more, thus invade it more... I could care less to be honest, in favor of a fair spread of opportunity. If you have a Hi-sec functioning gameplay, it should be easily accessible everywhere in Empire... without an obvious Favorite.
Thanks. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
41
|
Posted - 2012.02.05 22:30:00 -
[353] - Quote
TheLast Poofighter wrote:Rather than reduce the isk/LP rewards - why not just contrict the pipe a bit? Limit 1 incursion constellation in High Sec, 2 in Low Sec, 3 in Null. I think fewer sites in highsec could make for some interesting sandbox dynamics.
Or offer the option for real world rewards like tacos and beer. Or vodka and bread...
No need to constrict... they are ONLY 1/3 the mission bounties & 10X the fun If you constrict them you'll only be constricting the fun... because of a minority of whiney NULL SECers who think everyone should be their whipping boy |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 00:01:00 -
[354] - Quote
Eleena Frost wrote:CCP, since I started in 2006 you have always stated that eve is a harsh world where the more risk you take the more rewards you can reap. The stupid amount of isk and LP incursions give have broken this paradigm. It's pretty telling that people who live in well settled 0.0 regions still go to empire and run incursions for isk. At this point the only people who have reason to be in 0.0 are full time pvp'rs, bots, and masochists.
Incursions pay more to the individual pilot than any other activity (barring trading) in hisec, lowsec, or 0.0 without any pvp risk and very little pve risk. Before sanctums were nerfed a pilot was at least required to risk a carrier/mom/shiny ship to make 60-100m/hr plus. This also required sov and an ihub with upgrades and always ran the risk of being killed by another player.
Now you can do this in complete safely in hisec. Anyone who complains of risk is full of crap. If there were any significant risk involved you wouldn't see fleets full of faction fitted machs, nightmares, and t3s running these sites day in and day out.
My view is nerf incursions to be a fun hisec alternative to L4 mission with no more payout than that. Then you keep the fun content, people still get paid decently, and the whole risk/reward balance stays the same as the past.
First do it, than come back. You are part of the crowed complaining about the isk incursions make, while actually do not running them, and even more important totally ignoring travel time, down times changes in fleet composition or afk times, as well down time from searching fleets.
Incursions are not the money maker everyone calls them, I have yet to make on a single day more isk/hour in incursions than I could have done in l4s. And we all know that while l4s are good isk, 0.0 and wh are giving way more isk/hour. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 00:38:00 -
[355] - Quote
[quote=Shiu Juan] Maybe in Scout sites you can either fit a really good local rep, or you only need 1 baby logi (Osprey/Exequror). (eg these Sansha recognize that damage is a threat, but don't realize the problem with repping. I can't really think of another way of avoiding needing a logi pair and as a result blowing up the size of the fleet.)
You could give those baby logistics some kind of anti-sansha jammers modules which protects them from getting targeted ... ships would needed to change ... actually anti-npc jammers sounds like a great idea in general for this ship kind to make them useful for pve. Or give them some kind of better local rep. I actually do not like this, I do not like t1 logistics at all, because they simply do not work very well, not even in pairs.
Better balance scouts sites around speed tanks and ecm. Blackbird or kitsume could jam dangerous sansha ships while the fleets kills them. |
Dyexz
Comrades in Construction Mean Coalition
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 01:23:00 -
[356] - Quote
is it just me or does most of the Replies in this post mostly sound like its been posted by Capsuleers from either Null or Low-sec. from what i have read (stopped at page 5) there have been some fairly okay suggestions but i bet that most posts is just about whining.
Im not much for PvP myself, but i do hangout in null-sec from time to time
The Incursion i have been in seem to be nice and fun, although i have only tried Assaults, Headquarters and Mothership sites.
Changes i would suggest: - Decrease payout on Vanguards or make penalty for Blitzing sites. example: if intended average site time is 5-10min, make penalty of 0-50% if you do a site faster than 5min - Increase payout of Assault and HQ sites to compensate for effort and time used in site to make them more favorable. - If a incursion is intended to last up to 7days. have the Mothership Spawn on the 5th (70h after incursion-spawn). once mother ship has spawned remove spawn of Scout and Vanguard sites. - more variations in spawns in the sites to make them more interesting and fun - Add more stuff to the LP-store so you can buy other stuff than just Capital BP's and equiptment. example. add Hybrid/Laser/Projectile/Missile Specialization Skill books and Capital Skill books (LP + Isk) appropriate amount of LP cost + reduced Isk price compared to the normal market price
Hope this feedback can give you CCP some ideas of what could be implemented.
|
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 04:46:00 -
[357] - Quote
Degren wrote:Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P
No thanks. This is yet another nuke from orbit attempt. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1942
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 13:04:00 -
[358] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Degren wrote:Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P No thanks. This is yet another nuke from orbit attempt.
because you're a risk averse publord? andski for csm7~ |
Barada Nicto
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 15:11:00 -
[359] - Quote
1. HQs Should have higher rewards/Hour than Assaults. Assaults should have a higher reward than Vanguards. 2. More spawn/site variation. Break the monotony 3. The Second Room in TPPHs should go away. The fleet has to fly through 2 rooms to get to the main site and THEN kill a tower? 4. Why are TCRCs so difficult but Mom sites are relatively easy? TCRCs should be made slightly easier or at least increase the reward. 5. Create more types of incursions. Sansha shouldn't be the only enemies.
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
446
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 15:27:00 -
[360] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Degren wrote:Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P No thanks. This is yet another nuke from orbit attempt. because you're a risk averse publord? I had to read that twice. I thought you said "pureblood" at first, and was really confused. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers. US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join us. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. |
|
El Geo
Pathfinders.
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 17:26:00 -
[361] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Degren wrote:Make the incursions create a temporary lowsec system of a normally high sec =P No thanks. This is yet another nuke from orbit attempt. because you're a risk averse publord? I had to read that twice. I thought you said "pureblood" at first, and was really confused.
i dont think it should make all the systems in a constellation lowsec, but a couple would add more to eve as a 'sandbox' than what we currently have, it would also create a few systems that have less of a farming population creating a gap for people who are willing to take the risk and i can pretty much guarentee they'll be tonnes of oppertunity for the more adventurous players
or the easy alternative which would see more of an equal spread over all the empire factions space, just make incursions available to any constellation, as currently they dont spawn in mixed sec const i believe? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
144
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 20:51:00 -
[362] - Quote
I swore I would not get into this again, but John Turbefield (CCP), has provided HARD, REAL numbers about Incursions, and other PVE numbers for the entire month of January.
Let's have a look at them, shall we? BTW, these are from his twitter feeds YESTERDAY.
4.37tn ISK paid out in agent mission rewards in Jan 2012. 8.13tn ISK paid out in Incursion rewards in Jan 2012. 27.03tn ISK paid out in NPC bounty rewards in Jan 2012.
The total for those 3 numbers is 39.53 trillion. Incursion payments were 8.13/39.53 = 20.56% of ALL PVE payouts in ALL of Eve in January.
That of course does not include loot and faction items dropped in plexes and from rats. Only loot dropped by Incursion rats are the potential BPC's, which are usually scooped by Ninja thieves in high sec.
So the impact of Incursions on PvE total pay is significantly less than 20% of the total payouts. And given that many of those running Incursions would be grinding ISK in those L4's and plexes anyway, Incursions are a DROP IN THE BUCKET when it comes to PvE pay in Eve.
So enough of the hyperbole and lies from all the griefers and general asshats. CCP, leave Incursions alone.
I could envision a change in the payout structure so the more complex sites get a better payout and VG's slightly less, but NO OTHER changes are necessary. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 22:14:00 -
[363] - Quote
Agreed. That right there breaks though the lies flowing about incursions. Incursions are just another PVE element that involves grouping. There is NO significant incursion inflation.
So again. lets do simple changes that helps in the long run instead of try to push CCP to nuke incursion from orbit.
- Change Vanguards so they have to be completed in full. Field must be cleared. (This is mainly to make things better for the nonshiny fleets)
- Boost payout on Higher than Vanguard sites
Job done! There are some good ideas but most here are from people wanting to nuke incursion from orbit. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Wall of Shadow
808
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 22:46:00 -
[364] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Agreed. That right there breaks though the lies flowing about incursions. Incursions are just another PVE element that involves grouping. There is NO significant incursion inflation.
So again. lets do simple changes that helps in the long run instead of try to push CCP to nuke incursion from orbit.
- Change Vanguards so they have to be completed in full. Field must be cleared. (This is mainly to make things better for the nonshiny fleets)
- Boost payout on Higher than Vanguard sites
Job done! There are some good ideas but most here are from people wanting to nuke incursion from orbit.
Forcing fleets to kill the entire field doesn't help the non-shiny fleets, Endeavour.
PS: Your nuke from orbit argumentation/statement really gets on one's nerves after the first fifty times. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1947
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 22:51:00 -
[365] - Quote
endeavour is basically some NPC corp alt/roleplayer who unironically states that there is a nullsec ~cOnSpIrAcY~ to nerf incursions because CTA numbers are low
i mean it has nothing to do with high-risk nullsec anoms paying 60m/hour while low-risk highsec vanguard farming pays 100m+ per hour, nope not at all
his opinion is of no consequence, you see andski for csm7~ |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 04:49:00 -
[366] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Agreed. That right there breaks though the lies flowing about incursions. Incursions are just another PVE element that involves grouping. There is NO significant incursion inflation.
So again. lets do simple changes that helps in the long run instead of try to push CCP to nuke incursion from orbit.
- Change Vanguards so they have to be completed in full. Field must be cleared. (This is mainly to make things better for the nonshiny fleets)
- Boost payout on Higher than Vanguard sites
Job done! There are some good ideas but most here are from people wanting to nuke incursion from orbit. Forcing fleets to kill the entire field doesn't help the non-shiny fleets, Endeavour. PS: Your nuke from orbit argumentation/statement really gets on one's nerves after the first fifty times.
It does. You should know the advantage the shiny fleets have in this department with heavy faction gear. Besides its a needed change regardless on my views on imbalance of shiny/nonshiny.
As for your nerves. I don't care. If they are getting on them it is because your betrayal is looking more and more for not. The facts show that your wanting to nuke incursions is completely unneeded and that incursion inflation mass effects on the economy are a fantasy.
And Andski goons are an exemption for this. Because of the requirements to be part of SA to join it takes a real dedicated effort to be part of your group to start. You don't lose members to incursions much and your own CSM member stated positively about incursions and how goons run them. The proof showing with high blue bar times when they appear in goon and co space. I doubt you even see your enemies (or friends) mails basically forcing members into CTA/Logoff situations. I did. I know the want of power to control members and to think that they don't want the power back would be foolish.
As for your income comparison which is silly to start because many nulsec folks NAP it up and run alts to run anoms which is much harder to do for incursions (FCs want 1 player one client in fleets) You don't have to worry about drunk logis, Fake logis, Fake gank fleets, Fit and Skill liars, etc.. etc... Then add in time between sites. Larger fleets suffering leaves between sites forcing sometimes long recruiting. Unstable connections, unknown voice compatibility.
Incursions need small changes and boosts to payout of higher sites. Not nukes from orbit. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 14:03:00 -
[367] - Quote
Andski wrote:endeavour is basically some NPC corp alt/roleplayer who unironically states that there is a nullsec ~cOnSpIrAcY~ to nerf incursions because CTA numbers are low
i mean it has nothing to do with high-risk nullsec anoms paying 60m/hour while low-risk highsec vanguard farming pays 100m+ per hour, nope not at all
his opinion is of no consequence, you see
While I made around 60m/h with nullbear anoms, and while I made even more with carebear L4s, I have yet to make 100m+ per hour with vanguard farming. Maybe I should start a something awful account to get into the right vanguard fleets for this? Mine tend to waste at least 5 minutes per hour for pauses (honestly actually mostly more than 10minutes per hour), lose sometimes contested sites and do not wait just for me to appear online to invite me instantaneous. Furthermore I do not have jumpbridge network which will bring me to the next incursion in no time ...
... goons seem to have a few advantagues with their incursions I guess. Space big enough to have nearly as much incursions as amarr, short travel in "safe" space. How long did you say you must be part of sa? 18 months? |
Morgals
Sturm Reich Sturmgrenadier Syndicate
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 16:31:00 -
[368] - Quote
Contesting a site should be more chance based. If a fleet does 45% of the damage they should have a 45% chance of winning the site. So contesting is still valid and you still want to max dps and shinny fleets still have better odds...it's just not 100%
Looking for a mature, adult gaming community that has been active in EvE since 2004?Recruitment is open! Come join our public channel and get to know us. SGHQ-PUBLIC [url]http://sgeve.dai-coar.com/[/url] |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 18:15:00 -
[369] - Quote
LOL-ing at all you "ASSHAT - INCURSIONS MUST DIE THEY ARE SPOILING THE GAME" - BULLSHIT...
Proof that these are just a form of pve and a great (for those that understand eve) EMERGENT game play.
Now quit the bullshit and enjoy farming or griefing... Jury is out on this... |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
32
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 19:01:00 -
[370] - Quote
Morgals wrote:Contesting a site should be more chance based. If a fleet does 45% of the damage they should have a 45% chance of winning the site. So contesting is still valid and you still want to max dps and shinny fleets still have better odds...it's just not 100%
I have seen shinny fleets failing against well played mixed fleets of maelstroms, geddons and other t1 ships ... why you want to decide by luck instead of competence? |
|
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
341
|
Posted - 2012.02.07 23:07:00 -
[371] - Quote
Nuke incursions from orbit and move them to losec. +1 for the temp losec idea. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif |
Dare Devel
Perkone Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 07:25:00 -
[372] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I swore I would not get into this again, but John Turbefield (CCP), has provided HARD, REAL numbers about Incursions, and other PVE numbers for the entire month of January.
Let's have a look at them, shall we? BTW, these are from his twitter feeds YESTERDAY.
4.37tn ISK paid out in agent mission rewards in Jan 2012. 8.13tn ISK paid out in Incursion rewards in Jan 2012. 27.03tn ISK paid out in NPC bounty rewards in Jan 2012.
The total for those 3 numbers is 39.53 trillion. Incursion payments were 8.13/39.53 = 20.56% of ALL PVE payouts in ALL of Eve in January.
That of course does not include loot and faction items dropped in plexes and from rats. Only loot dropped by Incursion rats are the potential BPC's, which are usually scooped by Ninja thieves in high sec.
So the impact of Incursions on PvE total pay is significantly less than 20% of the total payouts. And given that many of those running Incursions would be grinding ISK in those L4's and plexes anyway, Incursions are a DROP IN THE BUCKET when it comes to PvE pay in Eve.
So enough of the hyperbole and lies from all the griefers and general asshats. CCP, leave Incursions alone.
I could envision a change in the payout structure so the more complex sites get a better payout and VG's slightly less, but NO OTHER changes are necessary.
This
* Incursion in high sec are over populated. * For organised group getting into a site is no problem but for random players the wait time could be too long. * Site contesting is so rampant that Faction/T2 fitted ship is a must required, that calls for lot of investment so risk. * Above all it gives Random eve player the experience of playing in a fleet environment in high sec.
Moving incursions to low or 0.0 completely, may not kill the ISK making capabilities of high sec players, since they will find other alternatives, but it will definitely kill the fleet based experience.
My money would be on lowering payouts based on time spent per site (Zapping Vangaurds in 10 mins or less). But assault site definitely need to give higher payouts for the amount of trouble it gives. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
630
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 07:51:00 -
[373] - Quote
Vanguards just need to be force field clearing. That will lower isk/hr anyway. Then boost payments fort he Assault and HQ fleets and your are done! |
Wyte Ragnarok
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 11:42:00 -
[374] - Quote
Dare Devel wrote: * For organised group getting into a site is no problem but for random players the wait time could be too long.
Isn't this what CCP want and half the point of Eve. Don't sit in a corp by your own and join people who share similar interests in Eve. |
Kithran
Curaursi United Corporate Futures
21
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 13:17:00 -
[375] - Quote
OK first I'll admit I haven't waded through every page of this thread but based on what I have seen so far I think the wronq question is being asked and answered here.
CCP need to state clearly what their aims and goals for incursions are.
If the goal is an incursion should last at least a day suggestions about having no more sites appear once the mom has spawned are pointless (I believe it was CCP Soundwave who stated in the video at last year's Fanfest that CCP were wanting them to last at least that long.).
For that goal you need to look at things like decreasing the amount of influence reduction you get from a single site (probably to something like 1/5 of what it is at the moment).
If the goal is encouraging more people to group up for pve activities then suggestions about reducing or removing incursions in high sec are pointless (reducing opportunities to do something is not going to encourage people to do that something).
For a goal like that you need to look at things like increasing the number of incursions you can have and maybe adjusting the algorithm that governs where incursions spawn so they are more spread out (if you aren't going to travel 30 jumps to an incursion in amarr you aren't goign to travel 25 jumps to another incursion in amarr that is only 7 jumps from the first one).
Kithran |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1989
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 13:31:00 -
[376] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:While I made around 60m/h with nullbear anoms, and while I made even more with carebear L4s, I have yet to make 100m+ per hour with vanguard farming. Maybe I should start a something awful account to get into the right vanguard fleets for this? Mine tend to waste at least 5 minutes per hour for pauses (honestly actually mostly more than 10minutes per hour), lose sometimes contested sites and do not wait just for me to appear online to invite me instantaneous. Furthermore I do not have jumpbridge network which will bring me to the next incursion in no time ...
... goons seem to have a few advantagues with their incursions I guess. Space big enough to have nearly as much incursions as amarr, short travel in "safe" space. How long did you say you must be part of sa? 18 months?
there have been like 3 incursions in our space to date, huh? yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7
got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
TheLast Poofighter
Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.08 13:41:00 -
[377] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:TheLast Poofighter wrote:Rather than reduce the isk/LP rewards - why not just contrict the pipe a bit? Limit 1 incursion constellation in High Sec, 2 in Low Sec, 3 in Null. I think fewer sites in highsec could make for some interesting sandbox dynamics.
Or offer the option for real world rewards like tacos and beer. Or vodka and bread... the idea sounds good but one problem. you are suggesting to get more people who have no desire to go out into low sec or 0.0 space. Yes i know empire space is care bear land but you also seem to forget that the mighty 0.0 alliance hide behind their wall of Blues doing their care bear stuff. The risks are there for both and many people are tired of the BS politics that go on out there forcing them to go back is wrong. CCP released this content for everyone. i think everyone just needs to grow and grab a cotex that are still crying about things and get over it and move on.
quote=DarthNefarius]TheLast Poofighter wrote:Rather than reduce the isk/LP rewards - why not just contrict the pipe a bit? Limit 1 incursion constellation in High Sec, 2 in Low Sec, 3 in Null. I think fewer sites in highsec could make for some interesting sandbox dynamics.
Or offer the option for real world rewards like tacos and beer. Or vodka and bread...
No need to constrict... they are ONLY 1/3 the mission bounties & 10X the fun If you constrict them you'll only be constricting the fun... because of a minority of whiney NULL SECers who think everyone should be their whipping boy[/quote]
No need to constrict... they are ONLY 1/3 the mission bounties & 10X the fun If you constrict them you'll only be constricting the fun... because of a minority of whiney NULL SECers who think everyone should be their whipping boy[/quote]
Ziranda - I don't see how reducing the number of high sec incursions (NOT eliminating) - limits access to content. It's still there only sites are challenged more often - which I see resulting in all kinds of interesting sand box dynamics. If nothing else it enriches the people element which is far more enriching than any content ccp can provide.
To Both - The suggestion of politics not happening in HS incursions confuses me. I would ask what about armor vs. shield, shiny vs. not shiny, banning from player "public" channels, "certified" FC squabbles, Bricksquad and Goon headshots, Wardecs, reimbursement funds, stealing loot, challenging sites... I could go on but I think when you dump a buttload of isk into a portion of the game there will be politics and the lines that differentiate between Heads of Null Sec alliances and the admins of public fleet channels becomes blurred.
To DarhtNefarious - I don't see how reducing the bounties to solo level 4's with much greater risk of losing your ship increases the fun factor. I dont understand the Nullsec whipping boy argument and neither of you mention anything about LS. If anything LS could use a few buffs.
Nor do you fellas mention anything about the idea regarding "Incursions for real world goods" - I think this would be awesome as I really need a new pair of underpants. |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 13:20:00 -
[378] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I swore I would not get into this again, but John Turbefield (CCP), has provided HARD, REAL numbers about Incursions, and other PVE numbers for the entire month of January.
Let's have a look at them, shall we? BTW, these are from his twitter feeds YESTERDAY.
4.37tn ISK paid out in agent mission rewards in Jan 2012. 8.13tn ISK paid out in Incursion rewards in Jan 2012. 27.03tn ISK paid out in NPC bounty rewards in Jan 2012.
The total for those 3 numbers is 39.53 trillion. Incursion payments were 8.13/39.53 = 20.56% of ALL PVE payouts in ALL of Eve in January.
That of course does not include loot and faction items dropped in plexes and from rats. Only loot dropped by Incursion rats are the potential BPC's, which are usually scooped by Ninja thieves in high sec.
So the impact of Incursions on PvE total pay is significantly less than 20% of the total payouts. And given that many of those running Incursions would be grinding ISK in those L4's and plexes anyway, Incursions are a DROP IN THE BUCKET when it comes to PvE pay in Eve.
So enough of the hyperbole and lies from all the griefers and general asshats. CCP, leave Incursions alone.
I could envision a change in the payout structure so the more complex sites get a better payout and VG's slightly less, but NO OTHER changes are necessary.
GAME OVER INCURSION MONKEYS GO SWING UP THE OTHER TREE, THE EVIDENCE IS RIGHT THERE AND IS FACT. |
S Smith
Smithsonian Inc
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 14:00:00 -
[379] - Quote
I played this game for almost two years. I got a demanding job and a family and cannot devote my entire life to Eve. I started off as a true carebear and grinded lvl4s for ages until a finally made my first billion. For a long time I only played one character but finally got two. I was getting bored with hisec and finally moved to null and joined one of the big alliances.
Moving to null has certainly been a lot of fun and it is a completely different game well worth playing. However, life in null as a null noob is expensive and somewhat difficult even though I am in a great corp. I make some ISK from PI, ratting etc but so far I have lost a lot more than I make.
However, I feel the current state of the game is actually more or less punishing those who want to do something different than hisec carebearing. It is now possible to earn insane amounts of ISK in hisec with close to zero risk and in a very short amount of time. There are guys in BC fleets making one billion a day in hisec. Does that make sense? Currently the mechanics really favor this play style as it basically means you can play for free PLEXing with very little effort. It has gotten to the point that I no longer feel motivated to play nor to pay more RL money for subs and PLEXes knowing that hisec incursion runners easily earn that kind of money in a few hours per months. In reality, everybody who wants to make descent ISK in this game is more or less forced to play as a hisec carebear, since that is the only logical conclusion one can make considering risk vs. reward vs. real life money and time. Sure, some very experienced players and higher-ups make insane ISK from caps and moons, but that ISK just stays in the hands of those players, even though an entire alliance is needed to actually be able to generate it (but that is a different matter I guess).
I have run incursions myself and I could make a living running them, but I don't want to. I don't enjoy that play style. I don't want to play the game as a hisec carebear. So, my options then are to devote even more time to Eve to make a living in null, spend RL money on PLEXs (indirectly letting the hisec bears play for free :) ), move back to hisec or simply quit playing. I have not yet decided what it'll be.
I guess I am not really arguing for an incursion nerf, but more to make different play styles equally viable in the game with a basic risk/reward/time ratio in mind. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
146
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 18:03:00 -
[380] - Quote
S Smith wrote:More lies and propaganda
Read the post above yours moron. Someone posted a repeat of my post.
It has something called FACTS in it. You know, real numbers supplied by CCP.
They completely refute all the crap you are saying about Incursions.
Now, I know that for most anti-incursions posters, facts and numbers are difficult concepts to handle. But try real hard. Look at the numbers I posted and the calculations.
Incursions have minimal, MINIMAL impact on the Eve economy.
That is not hyperbole. That is not propaganda. That is not lies. That is FACT, using CCP numbers.
End of story.
|
|
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
810
|
Posted - 2012.02.09 20:32:00 -
[381] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:S Smith wrote:More lies and propaganda Read the post above yours moron. Someone posted a repeat of my post. It has something called FACTS in it. You know, real numbers supplied by CCP. They completely refute all the crap you are saying about Incursions. Now, I know that for most anti-incursions posters, facts and numbers are difficult concepts to handle. But try real hard. Look at the numbers I posted and the calculations. Incursions have minimal, MINIMAL impact on the Eve economy. That is not hyperbole. That is not propaganda. That is not lies. That is FACT, using CCP numbers. End of story.
20 % ISK for all PVE in EVE is not a "drop in the bucket" like you've stated. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Farang Lo
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 05:28:00 -
[382] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67987&find=unread
just want to point out how those incursion bears "help" new players get in incursion |
KanashiiKami
Marvel Comics Galactic Labs Dark Knights of New Eden
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 06:52:00 -
[383] - Quote
my ideas
1) rework sizes for max number of pilots in a fleet
VG - 8 AS - 14 HQ - 28 MOM- 50
why? smaller fleet sizes = faster fleet forming, improves the waiting time to play time. subscribers like more play time and not wait time. however this will increase the difficulty of a site run.
2) contesting site isk/LP should be shared according to total damage % dealt into site. this will help lower skilled fleets to enjoy the game instead of being constantly run over by fleets oversized with highly skilled DPS. is this a nerf to elite fleets? i do not see it that way, on the other hand, by doing so, a fleet will know how much more/less dps they did in a contest.
will this introduce more poorly skilled players into incursions? fact--> we are all poorly skilled once, it is up to the FC to select and form his fleet and sort out who he should have on his team. if he chooses a lesser skilled to run with, the fleet will have to live with it or hop to other fleets. fact --> with a smaller fleet size due to point 1, i do not think any FC will wish to try his luck.
3) with down sizing of fleet size, total sansha DPS output dealt to playerbase should decrease accordingly to ensure playability of sites
VG - -20% sansha total dps AS - -20% sansha total dps HQ - -30% sansha total dps MOM- -30% sansha total dps
this would seem like a nerf BUT ... read on ...
4) with reduced DPS, ALL sites should introduce an extra special spawn that must be destroyed for site completion. new spawn introduced i will suggest be triggered after 2nd last site trigger is in effect.
the spawn will consist of 1xsmartbomb armed sansha cruiser (SB strength = 2.5x of a T2 medium SB @ 25km radius effect going at a 8 second interval), 1xsensordampener armed frig, that can target 2 simultaneous targets to cause 500% t2 scripted sensor dampening effect @ 12s interval range of 50km, 1xremoteshieldrep armed cruiser that will effect 500% remote rep capabilities of a med T2 remote shield rep on 1 target @ 10s interval. this spawn is a unique grp and will move in a formation no further than 5km from each other.
this spawn will have the following spawn grps per sites:
VG - 1 spawn AS - 2 spawns HQ - 3 spawns MOM- 4 spawns
yes the repping capability might prove to be a challenge for beyond VG sites, and it is this therefore that will "prove" as a checking "trigger" of the minimum amount of dps a fleet should have and therefore the rep % should be tweaked according to real fleets nominal dps, the 500% i have suggested is an arbituary value it could be 1000% or 200% for all i know.
5) most of the above seem like more of a debuff to sansha spawns, therefore i will like to suggest all sansha spawns recieve their own combat booster/buffing BS hulled ship (non attacking entity) that will do the following non stacking bonuses: VG - +150% shield HP AS - +60% shield HP HQ - +50% shield HP MOM- +40% shield HP this combat booster ship should be rendered invulnerable with shield resistances of 99%. and EHP +500% of normal sansha spawn. it may be plausible that this unit will become prime target in mom/HQ fleets.
with the increased HP, the role of the sansha remote repping ships should now be nerfed to only rep @ 20% capacity.
6) with the increased overall EHP of sansha + extra spawn. it is only natural that the site will now take MORE time to complete than usual. and therefore it is only logical that bounties of ISK/LP increase, and by that i would mean a total increase of 70% of bounties across VG, 100% for AS sites and a 150% increase for HQ site and 200% increase for MOM site.
MOM site no longer drops loot. but all MOM site pilot now recieve a tradable special insignia token that can be exchanged for special concord named items (that could be the random loot from the SC + some insane amt of LP?).
7) reconfiguration of a incursion cluster
each incursion spawn should now be as follows VG - 99 sites (spread over 11 to 15 systems) AS - 15 sites (spread over 5 systems) HQ - 9 sites (spread over 3 systems) MOM- 4 sites (spread over 2 systems)
and there is now only 1 hisec site, 1 losec, 1 nullsec. and each site can spawn over 3 adjoining constellations instead of 1.
50% of all initial spawned VG must be destoyed at least once to spawn AS sites, or wait 5days for AS auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned AS must be destoyed at least once to spawn HQ sites, or wait 7 days for HQ auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned HQ must be destoyed at least once to spawn MOM sites, or wait 9 days for MOM auto spawn. when MOM sites spawn, constellation wide all stargate, stations and VG/AS/HQ site-warpgates will be harrassed by a splash of 5-10 orkashu myelens, they do nothing but harrass with ecm. server restarts will spawn the rats if they are destroyed.
all 4 MOM sites must be destroyed to end the incursion and trigger LP payout. and MOM sites withdrawal time is set to countdown in 9 days. which means an entire incursion spawn will last maximum 18 full days
with the reduced fleet sized groupings, it is hoped to encourage more pilots to try AS/HQ sites.
with the increased number of pilots going into incursions, it is only logical that sansha now sends in more troops to occupy "our" space.
the above changes is hoped to encourage, a more focused fleet activity rather than just bulldozing thru sites. overall i would say difficulty of sites is increased. while survivability of sites is also up.
elite fleets will not find this a problem with their skill and experience in coordination. lower skilled fleets will find it a valauble fleet fighting episode experience. in the end, it is hoped to reduce the fleet forming time by half but increase site clearance times by 1.5x minimum.
i believe more experienced FC will have alot to say on the above ... please do :D (constructively of course)
thank you for reading |
ShipToaster
135
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 23:30:00 -
[384] - Quote
This proposed change to wardecs by Kelduum Revaan of eve university, potential CSM member, will have an extreme effect on incursions. You might want to put some feedback on that thread as it will end incursions if it is enacted and as we all know :ccp: have a bit of a hard on for stupid changes in recent months so it could be.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67445 Why wont this ******* signature die?
It wont clear. Another bug. How many bugs are in this ******* forum? |
KanashiiKami
Marvel Comics Galactic Labs Dark Knights of New Eden
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 05:48:00 -
[385] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:This proposed change to wardecs by Kelduum Revaan of eve university, potential CSM member, will have an extreme effect on incursions. You might want to put some feedback on that thread as it will end incursions if it is enacted and as we all know :ccp: have a bit of a hard on for stupid changes in recent months so it could be. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67445
would you / anyone care to elaborate ... im kinda slow at seeing the link ... i mean how SNA relates to incursion going bad |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
264
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 23:42:00 -
[386] - Quote
Drake: 40M (was < 30M) Tritanium: 4.48 ISK pu (was 3.3) PLEX: 472M (was 350M)
Only a pathetic liar could argue prices aren't going up too much.
Is it incursions? Is it L4?
Don't care.
ISK faucets HAVE to be brought back in check.
Since CCP have all the stats about which faucet does what, they have to start nerfing each of them till the economy is back to low or no inflation.
As of now those who run the faucet activities are getting a massive advantage over those who don't.
EvE the second it enforces a "best min max" path, stops being a sandbox and becomes just another sh!tty theme park, where you are "meant to" do this instead of that.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 11:14:00 -
[387] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Drake: 40M (was < 30M) Tritanium: 4.48 ISK pu (was 3.3) PLEX: 472M (was 350M)
Only a pathetic liar could argue prices aren't going up too much.
Hard lol here. Taking CCPs last inline post each month PLEX worth 50 Trillion are traded.
Coming from another ccp source 8 Trillion have been inserted by incursions in jan. 8 Trillion make the difference for sure, since all incursion incomes are well known exclusively used for PLEX, and this 8 Trillion do make "the" difference.
ps. Higher Trit prices are by no means caused by the incredible interesting implementation of mining and the great love it did experience by CCP, the risk of suicide ganking in high or CCP trying to fight mining bots.
Higher drake prices have nothing to do with higher trit prices (since you do not need any trit for it).
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
264
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 12:22:00 -
[388] - Quote
Mussaschi wrote:[quote=Vaerah Vahrokha]Drake: 40M (was < 30M) Tritanium: 4.48 ISK pu (was 3.3) PLEX: 472M (was 350M)
ps. Higher Trit prices are by no means caused by the incredible interesting implementation of mining and the great love it did experience by CCP, the risk of suicide ganking in high or CCP trying to fight mining bots.
Higher drake prices have nothing to do with higher trit prices (since you do not need any trit for it).
1) Trit was as boring to mine as it is today since several years ago when it sold for 2.7. Miners were *more* prone at being suicide ganked before the insurance nerf than they are now. Furthermore the past years we had Hulkageddons, now we don't.
Therefore your remark seems misplaced.
2) Drakes are just the "signature ship" but if you check a number of other ships, even ships that are not FOTM PvP nor PvE, they still have higher prices than the past.
Furthermore, the minerals basket balanced the trit increase with an harsh high ends decrease. Still, the prices are above than the past. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
ShipToaster
146
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 19:26:00 -
[389] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote:ShipToaster wrote:This proposed change to wardecs by Kelduum Revaan of eve university, potential CSM member, will have an extreme effect on incursions. You might want to put some feedback on that thread as it will end incursions if it is enacted and as we all know :ccp: have a bit of a hard on for stupid changes in recent months so it could be. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67445 would you / anyone care to elaborate ... im kinda slow at seeing the link ... i mean how SNA relates to incursion going bad and BTW i read that ... and yes its just BS idea ... im glad i didnt join eve uni and have him for CEO
No war declaration is needed for you to become a target. All that is needed is for you to be close to one of these null sec creating structures. This makes a lot of new problems for incursions.
You can be fleet warped into one of these or you can be asked to warp to someone, either way right smack into a null sec area where you can be killed with impunity.
Anchoring these null sec creating structures near gates or stations then bumping ships into them will be a problem for some ships, deploying them around any static ship that is afk for easy kills, deploying one in the mom site (then hiding a dozen stealth bombers to create mass carnage or warping in an even bigger PvP equipped fleet for the kills and the mom).
As it is an area classed as null sec space, even if it is in highsec, you can deploy bubbles and use dictors, with all the problems that would entail for point to point travel, and use bombs also which will be a problem for tightly grouped ships using the gate to warp in.
This list is what I thought of in a few minutes but I am sure the truly creative can think of all sorts of extra hazards that you will learn the hard way and wont be prepared for.
Confused about who to vote for in the upcoming CSM election?
This will sort it out! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68476 |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 23:46:00 -
[390] - Quote
again just make incursions available to any constellation inc. mixed sec constellations |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 18:56:00 -
[391] - Quote
Reworking Incursion constellations to be made up of mixed Sec status system may be interesting new facet: include a randomization where a single Vanguard, assault or HQ system is lo sec with appropriate payout. Occasionally a mixed HI SEC incursion won't finish until the adjacet lo sec MOM is killed off (I hope with the greater chance of a revenant BPC dropping :). This will throw a wrench into the current incursion chats' farming agreements unless they join together to do lo sec mixed incursion MOMs ALSO MIXED SEC STATUS SYSTEMS SHOULD BE MORE RANDOM SO NOT TOO MANY AMARR INCURSIONS ALWAYS SPAWN!!! |
Endeavour Starfleet
639
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 22:39:00 -
[392] - Quote
Ok lets get this clear.
Making any changes to sec status within a hisec incursion will mean said system simply WONT be used. You drooling for high priced targets will just ruin your keyboard and wont result in anything meaningful.
Instead of trying to harm incursion runners yet again the encouragement needs to be on more assault and HQ fleets.
-Force complete vanguards - Increase Payout for assaults and HQs
Simple and done.
|
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
217
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 04:44:00 -
[393] - Quote
Mussaschi wrote:
Higher drake prices have nothing to do with higher trit prices (since you do not need any trit for it).
Wait, what??!!
Not sure if serious/troll?
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7! (Mittens, you may not want to admit it, but your day in the sun is over. Next!)
|
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
217
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 04:46:00 -
[394] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ok lets get this clear.
Making any changes to sec status within a hisec incursion will mean said system simply WONT be used. You drooling for high priced targets will just ruin your keyboard and wont result in anything meaningful.
Instead of trying to harm incursion runners yet again the encouragement needs to be on more assault and HQ fleets.
-Force complete vanguards - Increase Payout for assaults and HQs
Simple and done.
No, it would mean that people would actually have to ship down to non-shiny/non-pimped, which potentially opens up newer/less well-off pilots into getting into your elitist fuckbag club, and, heaven forbid, generate "potential PvP situational-awareness" among newer players, sooner.
Can't have that, now can we.
Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7! (Mittens, you may not want to admit it, but your day in the sun is over. Next!)
|
Endeavour Starfleet
639
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 06:19:00 -
[395] - Quote
You think said noobs are going to go in there for long? It will be a gankfest just like lowsec is today.
Just Alpha kill the logis.. Done good night fleet.
It's a silly idea.
As for l33t. Ever go on a HQ fleet. They take virtually everyone and ive seen some REAL crap skills and fits be accepted with open arms. Vanguards need to be force complete to drive some out and HQs and Assaults given more payout for more fleets. But otherwise "I never get in!" in a myth. You can be in a raven that gets in faster than you can get said raven for LVL4s |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
816
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 11:35:00 -
[396] - Quote
Quote:Endeavour's logic:
Fleet A = Lvl V skilled, officer fit faction ships Fleet B = Lesser skilled T1 ships with t2 fittings
Force both fleets while in competition to kill ALL Sansha on grid. This will for sure give Fleet B a larger chance at winning the site (lol wut!?)
You're such a clever little boy. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
KanashiiKami
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 14:12:00 -
[397] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:KanashiiKami wrote:ShipToaster wrote:This proposed change to wardecs by Kelduum Revaan of eve university, potential CSM member, will have an extreme effect on incursions. You might want to put some feedback on that thread as it will end incursions if it is enacted and as we all know :ccp: have a bit of a hard on for stupid changes in recent months so it could be. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67445 would you / anyone care to elaborate ... im kinda slow at seeing the link ... i mean how SNA relates to incursion going bad and BTW i read that ... and yes its just BS idea ... im glad i didnt join eve uni and have him for CEO No war declaration is needed for you to become a target. All that is needed is for you to be close to one of these null sec creating structures. This makes a lot of new problems for incursions. You can be fleet warped into one of these or you can be asked to warp to someone, either way right smack into a null sec area where you can be killed with impunity. Anchoring these null sec creating structures near gates or stations then bumping ships into them will be a problem for some ships, deploying them around any static ship that is afk for easy kills, deploying one in the mom site (then hiding a dozen stealth bombers to create mass carnage or warping in an even bigger PvP equipped fleet for the kills and the mom). As it is an area classed as null sec space, even if it is in highsec, you can deploy bubbles and use dictors, with all the problems that would entail for point to point travel, and use bombs also which will be a problem for tightly grouped ships using the gate to warp in. This list is what I thought of in a few minutes but I am sure the truly creative can think of all sorts of extra hazards that you will learn the hard way and wont be prepared for.
ahhh soudesuka ... WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 14:20:00 -
[398] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote:my ideas 1) rework sizes for max number of pilots in a fleet VG - 8 AS - 14 HQ - 28 MOM- 50 why? smaller fleet sizes = faster fleet forming, improves the waiting time to play time. subscribers like more play time and not wait time. however this will increase the difficulty of a site run. 2) contesting site isk/LP should be shared according to total damage % dealt into site. this will help lower skilled fleets to enjoy the game instead of being constantly run over by fleets oversized with highly skilled DPS. is this a nerf to elite fleets? i do not see it that way, on the other hand, by doing so, a fleet will know how much more/less dps they did in a contest. will this introduce more poorly skilled players into incursions? fact--> we are all poorly skilled once, it is up to the FC to select and form his fleet and sort out who he should have on his team. if he chooses a lesser skilled to run with, the fleet will have to live with it or hop to other fleets. fact --> with a smaller fleet size due to point 1, i do not think any FC will wish to try his luck. 3) with down sizing of fleet size, total sansha DPS output dealt to playerbase should decrease accordingly to ensure playability of sites VG - -20% sansha total dps AS - -20% sansha total dps HQ - -30% sansha total dps MOM- -30% sansha total dps this would seem like a nerf BUT ... read on ... 4) with reduced DPS, ALL sites should introduce an extra special spawn that must be destroyed for site completion. new spawn introduced i will suggest be triggered after 2nd last site trigger is in effect. the spawn will consist of 1xsmartbomb armed sansha cruiser (SB strength = 2.5x of a T2 medium SB @ 25km radius effect going at a 8 second interval), 1xsensordampener armed frig, that can target 2 simultaneous targets to cause 500% t2 scripted sensor dampening effect @ 12s interval range of 50km, 1xremoteshieldrep armed cruiser that will effect 500% remote rep capabilities of a med T2 remote shield rep on 1 target @ 10s interval. this spawn is a unique grp and will move in a formation no further than 5km from each other. this spawn will have the following spawn grps per sites: VG - 1 spawn AS - 2 spawns HQ - 3 spawns MOM- 4 spawns yes the repping capability might prove to be a challenge for beyond VG sites, and it is this therefore that will "prove" as a checking "trigger" of the minimum amount of dps a fleet should have and therefore the rep % should be tweaked according to real fleets nominal dps, the 500% i have suggested is an arbituary value it could be 1000% or 200% for all i know. 5) most of the above seem like more of a debuff to sansha spawns, therefore i will like to suggest all sansha spawns recieve their own combat booster/buffing BS hulled ship (non attacking entity) that will do the following non stacking bonuses: VG - +150% shield HP AS - +60% shield HP HQ - +50% shield HP MOM- +40% shield HP this combat booster ship should be rendered invulnerable with shield resistances of 99%. and EHP +500% of normal sansha spawn. it may be plausible that this unit will become prime target in mom/HQ fleets. with the increased HP, the role of the sansha remote repping ships should now be nerfed to only rep @ 20% capacity. 6) with the increased overall EHP of sansha + extra spawn. it is only natural that the site will now take MORE time to complete than usual. and therefore it is only logical that bounties of ISK/LP increase, and by that i would mean a total increase of 70% of bounties across VG, 100% for AS sites and a 150% increase for HQ site and 200% increase for MOM site. MOM site no longer drops loot. but all MOM site pilot now recieve a tradable special insignia token that can be exchanged for special concord named items (that could be the random loot from the SC + some insane amt of LP?). 7) reconfiguration of a incursion cluster each incursion spawn should now be as follows VG - 99 sites (spread over 11 to 15 systems) AS - 15 sites (spread over 5 systems) HQ - 9 sites (spread over 3 systems) MOM- 4 sites (spread over 2 systems) and there is now only 1 hisec site, 1 losec, 1 nullsec. and each site can spawn over 3 adjoining constellations instead of 1. 50% of all initial spawned VG must be destoyed at least once to spawn AS sites, or wait 5days for AS auto spawn 100% of all initial spawned AS must be destoyed at least once to spawn HQ sites, or wait 7 days for HQ auto spawn 100% of all initial spawned HQ must be destoyed at least once to spawn MOM sites, or wait 9 days for MOM auto spawn. when MOM sites spawn, constellation wide all stargate, stations and VG/AS/HQ site-warpgates will be harrassed by a splash of 5-10 orkashu myelens, they do nothing but harrass with ecm. server restarts will spawn the rats if they are destroyed. all 4 MOM sites must be destroyed to end the incursion and trigger LP payout. and MOM sites withdrawal time is set to countdown in 9 days. which means an entire incursion spawn will last maximum 18 full days with the reduced fleet sized groupings, it is hoped to encourage more pilots to try AS/HQ sites. with the increased number of pilots going into incursions, it is only logical that sansha now sends in more troops to occupy "our" space. the above changes is hoped to encourage, a more focused fleet activity rather than just bulldozing thru sites. overall i would say difficulty of sites is increased. while survivability of sites is also up. thank you for reading
so .... nobody have any comments to this? ... FCs? plz ? plz? lol WUT ??? |
Kelduum Revaan
EVE University Ivy League
1565
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 14:44:00 -
[399] - Quote
KanashiiKami wrote:ShipToaster wrote:*stuff* ahhh soudesuka ... What he failed to mention is that you have to be a significant distance from anything (including mission stuff, gates, stations etc) to be able to even anchor it, as well as that it's a proposal, nothing more, and about as likely to appear in-game without changes as any of the other suggestions there, such as the typical 'remove hisec' ones. Kelduum Revaan CEO, EVE University
Candidate,-áCSM7 |
Roxwar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 15:55:00 -
[400] - Quote
I suggest a change to the LP rewards.
Right now, regardless of system, you get concord LP. Thousands of players daily gaining obscene amounts has and will continue to devalue concord LP.
Solution? Make the LP reward random.
If your incursioning in Gallente space, you get LP randomly from one of the Gallente factions. Same thing for all the other 3 respective races and their space.
At least that way it halts the thinning out of concord LP value and encourages interest in other LP stores.
If this was implemented though, the various LP stores need a good updating to make them more attractive than what they are now. http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
|
StuRyan
Assisted Homicide Ace of Spades.
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 17:23:00 -
[401] - Quote
leave them Eve is not meant to be fair and when opporunities arise for people to work togther and take advantage of the mechanics that is what eve is about.
|
Endeavour Starfleet
640
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 18:32:00 -
[402] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Quote:Endeavour's logic:
Fleet A = Lvl V skilled, officer fit faction ships Fleet B = Lesser skilled T1 ships with t2 fittings
Force both fleets while in competition to kill ALL Sansha on grid. This will for sure give Fleet B a larger chance at winning the site (lol wut!?) You're such a clever little boy.
First of all traitor. Using the quote system like that is defamation.
2nd. The force complete is to remove some of the advantage the shiny fleets have. And also lower isk/hr of them enough so that more will go into the then upgraded Assaults and HQ fleets.
Leaving the Vangaurds for smaller fleets that aren't ready for the higher sites just yet.
And if that isnt enough you can add in a few extra spawns on the VGs. Point is nuking them with payout cuts is NOT the answer.
Roxwar wrote:I suggest a change to the LP rewards.
Right now, regardless of system, you get concord LP. Thousands of players daily gaining obscene amounts has and will continue to devalue concord LP.
Solution? Make the LP reward random.
If your incursioning in Gallente space, you get LP randomly from one of the Gallente factions. Same thing for all the other 3 respective races and their space.
At least that way it halts the thinning out of concord LP value and encourages interest in other LP stores.
If this was implemented though, the various LP stores need a good updating to make them more attractive than what they are now.
The issue with this idea is that it would cause the value of LP from the mission runners to plummet even more. CONCORD LP value does kind of suck right now. Yet that means more will use it for its intended purpose which is rewarding the pilots with stuff the pilots will actually use. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 21:37:00 -
[403] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ok lets get this clear.
Making any changes to sec status within a hisec incursion will mean said system simply WONT be used. You drooling for high priced targets will just ruin your keyboard and wont result in anything meaningful.
Instead of trying to harm incursion runners yet again the encouragement needs to be on more assault and HQ fleets.
-Force complete vanguards - Increase Payout for assaults and HQs
Simple and done.
currently incursions only spawn in either a highsec/lowsec or nullsec constellation, they dont spawn in mixed constellations - its not about "shiny targets", nor is it about "nuking incursions from orbit", just a simple incursions spawn anywhere rather than sticking to non-mixed constellations making it much more open for everyone involved as it would spread incursions more accross diferent factions space, the highsec runners would still have the CHOICE to stay in highsec and run THE SAME sites they already run but the more risk orientated might decide they want their fleet to run vanguards in the one lowsec system becuase no one else is (among more oppertunities for everyone) - what are you soo scared of?
your whole thing seems to be "QQ NOOOO, DO NOTHING TO INCURSIONS BUT MAKE THEM EASIER AND PAY MORE!!!" |
Endeavour Starfleet
640
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 01:47:00 -
[404] - Quote
I can now see where you are going with that. Yet I still think its rather useless as the lows and nulls arent really being run much anyway.
And a hotdrop will still reduce your incursion fleet to rubble in no time flat. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 07:37:00 -
[405] - Quote
cant hotdrop into incursion areas |
Endeavour Starfleet
640
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 07:55:00 -
[406] - Quote
El Geo wrote:cant hotdrop into incursion areas
Never post while tired Ill concede that point
Still think they won't get used much. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 08:31:00 -
[407] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:El Geo wrote:cant hotdrop into incursion areas Never post while tired Ill concede that point Still think they won't get used much.
aye, no doubt but then who can complain about it being unfair when theres incursion systems not being ran and no 'shiny' targets in lowsec , not like the 'choice' would'nt be there
a good (armor) incursion gang can be fit for pvp and would provide more than just some shiny targets, an experienced pvp gang running incursions would be more than most 'pirates' could handle, especially when going up in numbers as they do for assualts and hq's |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
819
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 16:55:00 -
[408] - Quote
So Endeavour where lies in the difference between reducing reward payouts in vanguards vs. making vanguard sites take longer so the payout is reduced?
In order to "lower Isk/hour so enough _shiny_ people go do assault and HQ's" would mean vanguards with an almost perfect fleet should make no more than 60 m/hour. This would mean that either:
1. Vanguard payouts are reduced by a factor of just below 3. 2. Vanguard sites are prolonged by a factor of just below 3.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Endeavour Starfleet
641
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 20:08:00 -
[409] - Quote
Time between sites Traitor.
Between sites there is almost always downtime. Its better to have a few more spawns (Facor of 3 wut?) than reduce payout.
|
Endeavour Starfleet
641
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 20:13:00 -
[410] - Quote
El Geo wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:El Geo wrote:cant hotdrop into incursion areas Never post while tired Ill concede that point Still think they won't get used much. aye, no doubt but then who can complain about it being unfair when theres incursion systems not being ran and no 'shiny' targets in lowsec , not like the 'choice' would'nt be there a good (armor) incursion gang can be fit for pvp and would provide more than just some shiny targets, an experienced pvp gang running incursions would be more than most 'pirates' could handle, especially when going up in numbers as they do for assualts and hq's
Armor rarely can get the numbers to run those sites with current systems much less getting them to go into nullsec. Vanguards. Maybe but Assaults and HQs are more community missioning than serious money making. (Many of those runners will refuse to go into VG fleets even tho they have shiny ships that will make more isk/hr)
At most they should be assaults and VGs. The HQ should stay in hisec so the good community fleets don't get changed. |
|
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
820
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 21:21:00 -
[411] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Time between sites Traitor.
Between sites there is almost always downtime. Its better to have a few more spawns (Facor of 3 wut?) than reduce payout.
Implying an almost perfect fleet setup in very good condition equal 14-15 sites an hour at about 150 m an hour. You implying headquarters and assaults being more rewarding than vanguards -> vanguard should not payout more than 60 m.
150 vs. 60, almost a factor of 3.
This with an almost perfect fleet setup. T1 fleets will linger at about 30-40 m an hour for vanguards. Way to go Endeavour, "nuke incursions from orbit" I believe you call it? quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Endeavour Starfleet
641
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 00:11:00 -
[412] - Quote
#1 150M an hour is bogus. Rare at best
#2 I want Assaults and Hqs buffed in payout. To help draw in more vangaurd runners. That stops the 3x right there.
#3 Vanguards are their own style and I dont want them nuked. Just reduced in sheer draw. The downtime and other factors affecting other sites should not affect Vanguard payout. A force complete on VG sites and a few extra spawns (Maybe bigger ones so its not insta 6x web and point and poof) will help draw a few out but 3x reduction is just silly. Especially with its the other sites that need buffing.
#4 You are still a traitor and you still can't explain why you ran fake logis to gank fleets with your so called shut down incursion operation to get attention betrayal. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 04:07:00 -
[413] - Quote
sometimes i wonder why there are no minions, loyals and true sansha's in incursions |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
109
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 09:46:00 -
[414] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: Additionally, if you have any especially well thought-out feedback about the feature as a whole, and particularly about specific things you feel are wrong with the current implementation, go ahead and share those too!
Specific things that are wrong with Incursions:
* There's no means for players to side with the Sansha.
* High Sec Incursions are just wrong on a number of fundamental levels. - They throw Risk vs Reward balance out the window. - They make no sense in terms of Lore/RP. Why is CONCORD there to protect pod pilots yet unable to repel the Sansha?
Suggestions:
* Either remove Incursions from High Sec or remove CONCORD from High Sec systems for the duration of the Incursion.
* Make player standings effect Pirate NPCs reactions, allowing those with good standings to the Sansha to fight side by side with the NPCs. No artificial rewards are necessary, potential loot from destroyed Pod pilots attempting to defeat the Sansha would be sufficient.
Ideally you would scrap Incursions as they are now altogether, and remake it into something that enhances the story of EVE and fits into a game that is supposedly a player conflict driven Sandbox MMORPG. What you have now belongs in a PvE driven Themepark MMORPG and is inappropriate for a game like EVE. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
821
|
Posted - 2012.02.18 16:25:00 -
[415] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:#1 150M an hour is bogus. Rare at best
#2 I want Assaults and Hqs buffed in payout. To help draw in more vangaurd runners. That stops the 3x right there.
#3 Vanguards are their own style and I dont want them nuked. Just reduced in sheer draw. The downtime and other factors affecting other sites should not affect Vanguard payout. A force complete on VG sites and a few extra spawns (Maybe bigger ones so its not insta 6x web and point and poof) will help draw a few out but 3x reduction is just silly. Especially with its the other sites that need buffing.
#4 You are still a traitor and you still can't explain why you ran fake logis to gank fleets with your so called shut down incursion operation to get attention betrayal.
Yep, much better. Maybe if you'd like to disclose who your real mains are I could start taking you seriously and not just some obvious alt.
3-4 minute site completion will net you 15 sites an hour. Try do the math and yes I've done it.
We agree then. Buff assault and HQ! quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Endeavour Starfleet
646
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 05:16:00 -
[416] - Quote
I have already said I don't like how a shiny fleet has the extreme advantage. For instance. The webs. Shiny fleets have more and better web ability that gives them an extreme advantage over a nonshiny fleet. Therefore a force complete paired with small changes to the spawn to make the webs and points less important will gut the difference between shiny and nonshiny.
As for alt. Well touche from one alt to another. However nobody can claim I deliberately let a fleet die. |
KanashiiKami
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.19 07:09:00 -
[417] - Quote
Xorv wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Additionally, if you have any especially well thought-out feedback about the feature as a whole, and particularly about specific things you feel are wrong with the current implementation, go ahead and share those too!
Specific things that are wrong with Incursions:* There's no means for players to side with the Sansha. * High Sec Incursions are just wrong on a number of fundamental levels. - They throw Risk vs Reward balance out the window. - They make no sense in terms of Lore/RP. Why is CONCORD there to protect pod pilots yet unable to repel the Sansha? Suggestions:* Either remove Incursions from High Sec or remove CONCORD from High Sec systems for the duration of the Incursion. * Make player standings effect Pirate NPCs reactions, allowing those with good standings to the Sansha to fight side by side with the NPCs. No artificial rewards are necessary, potential loot from destroyed Pod pilots attempting to defeat the Sansha would be sufficient. Ideally you would scrap Incursions as they are now altogether, and remake it into something that enhances the story of EVE and fits into a game that is supposedly a player conflict driven Sandbox MMORPG. What you have now belongs in a PvE driven Themepark MMORPG and is inappropriate for a game like EVE.
hehe definately the incursion touched a raw nerve in him ....
anyway .... in terms of LORE/RP ... CCP tried live events. but it caused too much random mass destruction. so i think CCP may want to revisit LORE/RP. have sansha and concord engage in battle at warp gates !!!
and regarding reward/risk, i would re-suggest what i have posted, increased difficulty and time to clear any site, and also increase payout correspondingly.
regarding story, i must say nobody is following the story because CCP did NOT weave any evident/memorable storyline gameplay to be an epic part of the game. so ... i dont think CCP is good at that ...
BUT ... to increase storyline identity to players whop feel its importance ... CCP SHOULD change the constellation NEW EDEN into something else that can interweave story lines and EVE myths into. it should prolly become the new jita of EVE ... thats where it all started ... didnt it?
CCP threw all the hard parts to the players to run .... and then tried to POLICE it ... that ... is how it is run now ... LOL WUT ??? |
Carton Mantory
Cult of Baal
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.21 19:20:00 -
[418] - Quote
To make this a simple response:
No matter what CCP does EVE players will do the most valued isk activity.
if we all go back t o level 5 or level 4 or mining or wormholes or havens or whatever you still not going to be doing PVP with isk valued activities.
The point of isk is to make it not blow it when you want to make it. Stop thinking EVE is fair.
Isk valued activities is what you try and stop no one component will effect any other. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 08:23:00 -
[419] - Quote
Xorv wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Additionally, if you have any especially well thought-out feedback about the feature as a whole, and particularly about specific things you feel are wrong with the current implementation, go ahead and share those too!
Specific things that are wrong with Incursions: [/i]
Risk? you must be anub clinging to the threads of Goons or suckling Darius III ****.
i been running the HQ sites and sad to say there is ALOT of risk. Among the Dead are 3 Onies 4 Guards 2 Vindi 1 Loki before we warped out. Learn before you speak like mitanni |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
402
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 08:51:00 -
[420] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Risk? you must be anub clinging to the threads of Goons or suckling Darius III ****.
i been running the HQ sites and sad to say there is ALOT of risk. Among the Dead are 3 Onies 4 Guards 2 Vindi 1 Loki before we warped out. Learn before you speak like mitanni
http://www.fatal-ascension.com/killboard/index.php/kill_related/84786/
You risked nothing of significance. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
|
Wyte Ragnarok
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 10:59:00 -
[421] - Quote
Oh yes, let's all go to null sec where we can fulfill our master's wishes. Let's take part in blob fests so I don't even know which module is active. Let's go out to null and get bored in super caps that we can't really leave without a holding alt, and spend billions on fitting.
On other thoughts, let's not. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
403
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 11:31:00 -
[422] - Quote
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:Oh yes, let's all go to null sec where we can fulfill our master's wishes. Let's take part in blob fests so I don't even know which module is active. Let's go out to null and get bored in super caps that we can't really leave without a holding alt, and spend billions on fitting.
On other thoughts, let's not. lmao, I love people who don't know how null works.
We fight, we die, we get new ships from our alliance SRF.
Oh, and as a perk, we get what would be the best income in the game, if not for relatively risk free highsec incursions.
Oh, and the not knowing which module is active? Its been fixed. TiDi is the best thing to happen to large scale fleet fights since artillery. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 21:54:00 -
[423] - Quote
Mothership sites (especially those contested with near 160 ships) need Time dilation |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.22 23:16:00 -
[424] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Risk? you must be anub clinging to the threads of Goons or suckling Darius III ****.
i been running the HQ sites and sad to say there is ALOT of risk. Among the Dead are 3 Onies 4 Guards 2 Vindi 1 Loki before we warped out. Learn before you speak like mitanni
http://www.fatal-ascension.com/killboard/index.php/kill_related/84786/You risked nothing of significance.
your KB is ugly. work on it. Not everyone can fly a titan
Not everyone wants to go out to 0.0 space but then again i think no one has learned that people play the game the way they wish to enjoy it not to your whims.
As mentioned i will welcome my russian Overlords atleast they have honor |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
363
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 04:26:00 -
[425] - Quote
No one cares if you want to stay in empire and suckle the carebear teat. It's the inflation you cause with a ridiculous ISK faucet that we wish to plug. Easiest way? Remove incursions from hisec.
Also, I risk more undocking a cyno ship in null than you do in a 2B ship in a hisec incursion site. Let's not pretend it's any different. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
140
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 04:49:00 -
[426] - Quote
El Geo wrote:cant hotdrop into incursion areas You raise an interesting point. Sansha can hotdrop its NPC motherships, why can't we hotdrop our much smaller carriers Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
43
|
Posted - 2012.02.23 20:16:00 -
[427] - Quote
Vangaurds are getting too crowded due to the ISK per hour payouts being soo high ergo forcing out the non-shiney fleets of newbies... If the harder assault &HQ fleets paid out as well per hour you'd see more ship loss becuase they are not the mindless grind Vanguards are. The time it takes to form & even keep up an assault ( which too often requires such hassles as ship refitting) together just makes them that much more undesirable. A buff to assault payouts would go towards making them on a par with Vanguards even though they do have much more risk...
One way to make the ISK per hour on par with Vanguards would be to take out 1 room of the NCNs. NCNs stack up because they take sooo effing long to complete & the ship compostitions are soo much more important ( & you need 2 FC's to do ) Assaults & HQ's are more fun when they can be run even though ship losses are much more common but the waits to form & keep fleets make them unfun CCP DEVs!!! I've been trying to run assault & HQ's but just can't keep the fleets together because the lure of quick ISK of Vanguards is too great. I'm about to give up on assaults & HQ sites & tell fleets to saturate Vanguards even more so that will shut out the non shiney fleets totally if nothing changes soon |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
124
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 06:46:00 -
[428] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
Risk? you must be anub clinging to the threads of Goons or suckling Darius III ****.
Comments pretty much sums up Incursions crowd. People bemoan the Goons and Darius, in fact even goons dislike Darius. But however obnoxious either may be in reality or people's minds, neither compare the loathsome obnoxious entitlement of the PvE Raid type player.
CCP don't cater to these people, send them back to whatever horrible Themepark game they came from.
There's a simple cure...PvP vulnerability, No Incursion should be free from PvP or be afforded the protection of CONCORD.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 07:28:00 -
[429] - Quote
Concord are pretty lazy, tbh. They sit around as the place is being invaded, but will hop in to kill some ganker, then leave so let Sansha's fellows continue fighting.
The hilarious no logi gank really beings home the dangers of war or something silly like that. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
35
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:00:00 -
[430] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:No one cares if you want to stay in empire and suckle the carebear teat. It's the inflation you cause with a ridiculous ISK faucet that we wish to plug. Easiest way? Remove incursions from hisec.
Also, I risk more undocking a cyno ship in null than you do in a 2B ship in a hisec incursion site. Let's not pretend it's any different.
Hey it is not his fault that a billion loss is less significant to him, than your scout ship is to you. Maybe you should work on your income sources? |
|
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
366
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 10:43:00 -
[431] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:KrakizBad wrote:No one cares if you want to stay in empire and suckle the carebear teat. It's the inflation you cause with a ridiculous ISK faucet that we wish to plug. Easiest way? Remove incursions from hisec.
Also, I risk more undocking a cyno ship in null than you do in a 2B ship in a hisec incursion site. Let's not pretend it's any different. Hey it is not his fault that a billion loss is less significant to him, than your scout ship is to you. Maybe you should work on your income sources? Your stupidity aside, perhaps you should consider that you agree that to a hisec incursion runner, a billion loss is insignificant. Thanks for making my point more clear. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Welsige
SregginWaffe Elite Space Guild
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.24 16:19:00 -
[432] - Quote
I dont go to highsec, just go to low and null.
By no means these sites are risk free. we have to be allways on our toes. The risk comming mostly from pvp as other fleets will try and catch the incursioners.
To me losing my dps ship as a huge impact, because i burn the isk i make in incursions in pvp. I dont live in incursions 24x7, i make one, play eve for 1-2 months, then go on another to replenish my war chest.
If anything, make incursion sites "criminal free", make kills in these sites have no affect in standings or repecursions from concord.
If i remember right, when they announced incursions the video said we could "chose our side", how can this be done if concord will blow things up? :)
Make people be able to chose an allignment pro-Sansha / anti-Sansha. Sansha alligned players could not receive any isk from incursions, and would not get agression from sansha rats. Make incursion areas Concord free (temporarily null behaviour).
Or (and), make a Isk Pool just like the LP pool, players only get their Isk if the Mothership is killed, meaning that less players will run the sites as they will go only on sites where they can muster a force to kill the mothership in the end.
That are my sugestions. These will well reduce the isk faucet without tempering with incursion rewards, by simply increasing the risk comming from player based actions. |
Cpt Express
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 11:25:00 -
[433] - Quote
Some way to allow more variety of ship type, and skill points.
Instead of diminishing rewards after a certain number of people, make it more like the ship point system used in ally tournements.... so instead of 10 battleships, you could use 20 cruisers or something.
Also the payouts could also be changed to something based on the type of ship your flying or something...
this may make no sense... but i think it sucks that there is so much emphasis on having just shinny ships...
some mechanic to include a wider variety of ships and skill points would be awesome. |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 21:12:00 -
[434] - Quote
I've been reading this thread for awhile now and it just looks like the 'shinny' fleet guys want to buff payouts from incursions so they're using their alts etc to keep posting so it looks lik ethey have more support. Me, i dont find incursions attractive enough to run them constantly so i can sit and cuddle me wallet. What people need to understand is in highsec there are a few ways to make isk, these are all outweighed by the isk you can make in incursions, i mean running vanguards in a good shinny fleet can net you 2 or 3 times what you can earn doing any other activity. I also like the way some of you attempt to bring the old argument of 'some people dont want to go to low/nullsec' and the other attempts at bringing 'noobs' into the equasion. Firstly, no new player has a chance to get into any good fleets, they may aswell run missions or do something else becuase by the time they get into a fleet they would have been sitting around for an hour or more and their fleet will consist of other poorly skilled characters. Secondly, if you dont want to go to any system below 0.5 dont, its that simple. 'Buff incursion' bears should feel ashamed at themselves for trying to push their own agendas forward so that they can keep making (more) isk than they already do, those of you who say daft things like 'i only get to play every now and then and incursions are my only form of income, if i dont have that i'd quit' i wish you would quit, eve would be a better place. Stop posting ideas on how to make incursions 'pay' more, they're are stupid posts from what i can only assume are mentally challenged people. |
ian papabear
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.25 23:29:00 -
[435] - Quote
Imo there is nothing wrong with the current mechanics of incursions at all. If people want to complain , well whatever boohooo: thats the reason why CCP has developed so many options in the game for us to try out. Whether it be pvp, mining, running complexes, trying out wormholes, trading, and even scamming.. these are all things people can do if they have an issue with incursions all of which can pay more or close to what a fleet makes from running incursions all day. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2214
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 07:21:00 -
[436] - Quote
ian papabear wrote:Imo there is nothing wrong with the current mechanics of incursions at all. If people want to complain , well whatever boohooo: thats the reason why CCP has developed so many options in the game for us to try out. Whether it be pvp, mining, running complexes, trying out wormholes, trading, and even scamming.. these are all things people can do if they have an issue with incursions all of which can pay more or close to what a fleet makes from running incursions all day.
yeah of course incursions are balanced, 100m+ isk/hr printed risk-free in hisec lol
it's getting nerfed, deal with it "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.26 21:44:00 -
[437] - Quote
Loki Feiht wrote:I've been reading this thread for awhile now and it just looks like the 'shinny' fleet guys want to buff payouts from incursions so they're using their alts etc to keep posting so it looks lik ethey have more support. Me, i dont find incursions attractive enough to run them constantly so i can sit and cuddle me wallet. What people need to understand is in highsec there are a few ways to make isk, these are all outweighed by the isk you can make in incursions, i mean running vanguards in a good shinny fleet can net you 2 or 3 times what you can earn doing any other activity. I also like the way some of you attempt to bring the old argument of 'some people dont want to go to low/nullsec' and the other attempts at bringing 'noobs' into the equasion. Firstly, no new player has a chance to get into any good fleets, they may aswell run missions or do something else becuase by the time they get into a fleet they would have been sitting around for an hour or more and their fleet will consist of other poorly skilled characters. Secondly, if you dont want to go to any system below 0.5 dont, its that simple. 'Buff incursion' bears should feel ashamed at themselves for trying to push their own agendas forward so that they can keep making (more) isk than they already do, those of you who say daft things like 'i only get to play every now and then and incursions are my only form of income, if i dont have that i'd quit' i wish you would quit, eve would be a better place. Stop posting ideas on how to make incursions 'pay' more, they're are stupid posts from what i can only assume are mentally challenged people.
hehe.
i happen to come across a group of people and have been running incursions with them and i seen many 0.0 pilots from the might block party alliance running them with us. and as for new players to the game we do not discriminate unlike some of the others. we have had Hurricanes and myrmidons in there with us with meta4 gear on their ship and a few of us have offered to put rigs on their ships so they have a better tank if they are not able to put them on someone in fleet will do it for them and pass the ship back. WOW! imagine that! |
DocKado
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 00:33:00 -
[438] - Quote
incursions arent the source of inflation if you read the god dam stats....
the source is from stupid fucks ******* up the whole market with their bottomless pit of isk created by sitting on technetium moons or any other moon regarded as a high end.
fix that and leave incursions alone people still have to work together to make the isk/hour in the first place not like sitting on a mountain of gold which doesn't run out. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
371
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 04:29:00 -
[439] - Quote
DocKado wrote:incursions arent the source of inflation if you read the god dam stats....
the source is from stupid fucks ******* up the whole market with their bottomless pit of isk created by sitting on technetium moons or any other moon regarded as a high end.
fix that and leave incursions alone people still have to work together to make the isk/hour in the first place not like sitting on a mountain of gold which doesn't run out. Someone doesn't understand what a faucet is. This wouldn't have anything to do with you being mad about losing money speculating on moon goo here now would it? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74850
Nawww. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1686
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 04:48:00 -
[440] - Quote
Xorv wrote:People bemoan the Goons and Darius, in fact even goons dislike Darius. But however obnoxious either may be in reality or people's minds, neither compare the loathsome obnoxious entitlement of the PvE Raid type player.
This is a good post.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2234
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 04:51:00 -
[441] - Quote
DocKado wrote:the source is from stupid fucks ******* up the whole market with their bottomless pit of isk created by sitting on technetium moons or any other moon regarded as a high end.
ah yes
just like ship losses are ISK sinks
go back to wow "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Cyrus Ildemar
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 06:22:00 -
[442] - Quote
Personally I think incursions are great. They allow new and old players to make enough isk quickly so that they can pvp more often. Ratting for hours on end to PLEX an account just doesn't seem viable to me. And nerfing them doesn't make sense when there are cash cows like wormholes or the holy grail of moon mining.
Moving forward, I think one of the funnest parts of incursions is when I get to contest other fleets, yet I never get to know how much I win the contests by. It be interesting if a meter, or bar or something along those lines came up when another fleet entered the site. And the meter showed the amount of dps each fleet was putting out. That way each fleet knew how close they were to gaining the prize of trolling rights, and during the site pressure would run high when the meter started to turn away from ones own fleet.
Great work CCP on incursions. Really hope you don't nerf them as others would have you do. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
831
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 14:09:00 -
[443] - Quote
Cyrus Ildemar wrote:Personally I think incursions are great. They allow new and old players to make enough isk quickly so that they can pvp more often. Ratting for hours on end to PLEX an account just doesn't seem viable to me. And nerfing them doesn't make sense when there are cash cows like wormholes or the holy grail of moon mining.
Moving forward, I think one of the funnest parts of incursions is when I get to contest other fleets, yet I never get to know how much I win the contests by. It be interesting if a meter, or bar or something along those lines came up when another fleet entered the site. And the meter showed the amount of dps each fleet was putting out. That way each fleet knew how close they were to gaining the prize of trolling rights, and during the site pressure would run high when the meter started to turn away from ones own fleet.
Great work CCP on incursions. Really hope you don't nerf them as others would have you do.
Oh my god! That is a BRILLIANT idea. Give us a measure. Show us how close we were at winning/losing. Please ccp! quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Halboreth
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 16:52:00 -
[444] - Quote
I agree on Cyrus' idea. The dps is measured anyways to determine which fleet has won the contest. Show us a graph in the end (i don't think it would be a good idea to show it while the contest is going on). xD
Incursion Rewards
Incursion have to be rewarding. The intention was to get PVE solo pilots into fleets. Actually this works quite well in my eyes. You get to know miners, mercenaries, 0.0- & wh-pilots, pirates... I saw a lot of people go to another corp to move further. So the average reward for an incursion-pilot should be 50% above the income of a mission-runner.
Vanguards/balancing
I think the reward for running vanguards is not to high. The vanguards are always 'overrun', if you're not in a specialized 'shiny' fleet you get about 60-90m/hour. So if you actually want to 'nerf' the income of vanguards there should be at least a lot of more sites in a system (or more incursions) or income will fall behind a mission runner.
Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Blitzing I don't mind specialized fleets to win a contest, their investment into the fleet should be rewarded (and they fall behind in other site-types). But completing sites in half of the time of a normal fleet is just too much. Participating in such a fleet will get you up to 150m/h. I guess that's the reason why some people got so jealous they tried to shut down every incursion.
NCO: One "big target" at a decent distance that has to be done to counter legion/sleipnir fleets. Or Mara Paelos to increase site-time.
OTA: More Neut (Otuni Mesen) to counter 6-0-Basilisk |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
832
|
Posted - 2012.02.28 18:59:00 -
[445] - Quote
Halboreth wrote: Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Headquarters: Now you can earn 280 m isk an hour in incursions. Hands down, as a longtime incursion runner and capable of FC'ing HQs. This would do wonders for my wallets. On the other hand I sincerely doubt the logic of this in a game design perspective. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Halboreth
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 01:13:00 -
[446] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Halboreth wrote: Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Headquarters: Now you can earn 280 m isk an hour in incursions. Hands down, as a longtime incursion runner and capable of FC'ing HQs. This would do wonders for my wallets. On the other hand I sincerely doubt the logic of this in a game design perspective.
I highly doubt that even a perfect fleet under perfect conditions can do 190m/h in vanguards atm. But that's anyway not the numbers I'm referring to. To give you numbers I would balance vanguards at 80m/h for normal fleets, specialized fleets should not be able to earn more than 120m/h. So for Assaults it would be 100m/h and headquarter 120m/h. Unfortunately that's not as easy to achieve as to write it down.
And I mean realistic numbers of ISK/h including form-up time, bio-breakes, restocking ore, warping from site to site, re-filling fleet, travelling, waiting for site-respawn and have some fun in your fleets. Not that 'oh i can do an OTA in 4mins, that's 150m/h'. A mission runner just gets a mission and 'runs'. That's boring but rewarding, too (beyond 80m/h with 'blitzing').
Oh well, I missed one important point that anyone already mentioned in this thread for sure: Re-balance the Assault-Sites NCN. They take far longer than the other two, need a special fleet-setup and come up with more risk (disconnect of a basilik on cruiser-side for example). At least cut a pocket or so. |
Field Artillery
Dust 515
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 11:25:00 -
[447] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Vangaurds are getting too crowded due to the ISK per hour payouts being soo high ergo forcing out the non-shiney fleets of newbies.. This is good! In fact, there should be even less of whatever is going to be the isk/hr FOTM after the inevitable rebalance so the risk-averse hisec dwellers get into fights over them (the war-centered Inferno surely could provide here), or have to leave, desipte their multi-billion ships if they're not willing to risk them. As for the newbies, the scrub-tier sites and payouts should be adjusted to be at least on par with hisec L4s to reward the fact they are cooperating instead of solo afk farming. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
836
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 19:22:00 -
[448] - Quote
Halboreth wrote: I highly doubt that even a perfect fleet under perfect conditions can do 190m/h in vanguards atm.
My bad mate. I read that as HQ = 2xVG rewards. Yes, so you are basically talking about lowering the vanguard max payout to a bit over the payout of current normal fleets WITHOUT penalizing the normal fleets. Basically: Lower the max payout, while preventing the average payout of going down. Overrule the proportionality between normal fleet payouts and high end fleet payouts.
That's gonna a tough nut to crack game wise.
And then otherwise scale this up to HQ's and assaults. Buffing them. +1 I concur!
PS: 15 sites an hour is doable. Just not for any longer than 2 hours, realistically. You "just" need a good fleet in an empty _small_ system with a very lucky site generation. Like the time when nothing, but NCO's spawned for our fleet for an hour straight. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 20:54:00 -
[449] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Halboreth wrote: I highly doubt that even a perfect fleet under perfect conditions can do 190m/h in vanguards atm.
My bad mate. I read that as HQ = 2xVG rewards. Yes, so you are basically talking about lowering the vanguard max payout to a bit over the payout of current normal fleets WITHOUT penalizing the normal fleets. Basically: Lower the max payout, while preventing the average payout of going down. Overrule the proportionality between normal fleet payouts and high end fleet payouts. That's gonna a tough nut to crack game wise. And then otherwise scale this up to HQ's and assaults. Buffing them. +1 I concur! PS: 15 sites an hour is doable. Just not for any longer than 2 hours, realistically. You "just" need a good fleet in an empty _small_ system with a very lucky site generation. Like the time when nothing, but NCO's spawned for our fleet for an hour straight.
15 NCO sites straight in a hour is VERY rare. I myself have never done it mostly because when I FC VG fleets its now always with a few 'welfare' ships ( like Harbi's or hurricanes maybe an occasional stabber ) I never wait around for the perfect legion fleets to form up because I find the waiting around for them to x up and being soo choosey a bore. I usually average 60 million an hour & when a big NCO string does occure i get around 90 million an hour because me fleets have BS's because I do all sites (OTA's NMC's & NCO's) if I didn't mix it up the grind would be too boring for me. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
50
|
Posted - 2012.02.29 21:01:00 -
[450] - Quote
Halboreth wrote:Ammzi wrote:[quote=Halboreth] Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Oh well, I missed one important point that anyone already mentioned in this thread for sure: Re-balance the Assault-Sites NCN. They take far longer than the other two, need a special fleet-setup and come up with more risk (disconnect of a basilik on cruiser-side for example). At least cut a pocket or so.
I actually filled out a bug report on the stacking of NCN's to developers suggesting the cutting of 1 room as a solution... got a reply simular to "feature working as intended". He further suggested I complain err I mean make the suggestion in the Forums so I doubt they'll do it. What really pisses me off is the cruiser side spawn of 3 OR 4 MARA... they do ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE... MOVE OUT LIKE 100K AWAY & TAKE FOREVER TO KILL (ALMOST LONGER THEN AN ENTIRE NCS SITE SOMETIMES) DUE TO ALL THE REPPING... if it happens in the first room then your better of finishing the BS side & warping off |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:08:00 -
[451] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Halboreth wrote:[quote=Ammzi][quote=Halboreth] Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Oh well, I missed one important point that anyone already mentioned in this thread for sure: Re-balance the Assault-Sites NCN. They take far longer than the other two, need a special fleet-setup and come up with more risk (disconnect of a basilik on cruiser-side for example). At least cut a pocket or so.
I actually filled out a bug report on the stacking of NCN's to developers suggesting the cutting of 1 room as a solution... got a reply simular to "feature working as intended". He further suggested I complain err I mean make the suggestion in the Forums so I doubt they'll do it. What really pisses me off is the cruiser side spawn of 3 OR 4 MARA in NCN's... they do ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE... MOVE OUT LIKE 100K AWAY & TAKE FOREVER TO KILL (ALMOST LONGER THEN AN ENTIRE NCS SITE SOMETIMES) DUE TO ALL THE REPPING... if it happens in the first room then your better of finishing the BS side & warping off[
FYI in NCNs it used to be logistics could not go on the BS side. It was an absolute death trap and ignored until logistics could finally enter.
/quote]
|
Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.01 01:21:00 -
[452] - Quote
Dear CCP, I cannot fathom why there should be an nerf to vanguards, or incursions at all. They are the best tool highsec have to get a good fleet action. I'm more hoping you would continue to a new chapter of incursions, making more sites, even harder and more rewarding content.
On a sidenote, incursions have given me more time to delve into other aspects of the game, like research, market games, politics etc. wich i normally wouldnt care for, since i would be mindlessly be ratting or missioning solo to achive the isk i need for my pvp alt.
|
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 10:10:00 -
[453] - Quote
I still keep seeing the same old thing. Good ideas ripped apart and bad ideas hailed as the new coming.
I still feel that the mighty 0.0 alliance blocks are extremely butt hurt over the fact that Empire folk can make isk rather quickly and not have to be a renter in 0.0 space or sucking some 0.0 alliance **** not to be over ran or blown up all the time. ?A good portion of these folks have no desire to go to low sec or 0.0 to pvp or get called names by those who are like Darius III or deal with the politics involved out there.
It comes down tot he basic thing said many many times not just in games but in real life. "At the end of the day" its a game people play to have fun but you know not all are going to play to YOUR style. get over it...grow up and quit crying like a baby and show poor mittens you got more integrity then his goon pets.
What happens will happen and someone is going to throw a temper tantrum like some 2 year old sounding like Darius iii
have fun enjoy |
dave3NG
mgfc
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 12:04:00 -
[454] - Quote
(Got bored on page 2 but decided to post uneducated opinion anyway)
I think Incursions should have a real impact on the space that they occur in, rather than just being random NPC spawns for PVErs..
Remove Concord and GCC / security status loss for all Incursion systems for the duration of the Incursion.
Naturally Concord would advise pilots to avoid these systems but reward loyalty points for help in thwarting the blight (goes for RP vote). |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
55
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 17:02:00 -
[455] - Quote
dave3NG wrote:(Got bored on page 2 but decided to post uneducated opinion anyway)
I think Incursions should have a real impact on the space that they occur in, rather than just being random NPC spawns for PVErs..
Remove Concord and GCC / security status loss for all Incursion systems for the duration of the Incursion.
Naturally Concord would advise pilots to avoid these systems but reward loyalty points for help in thwarting the blight (goes for RP vote).
I've helped clear out asteroid belts for local miners b4 so I actually HELPED NOT HURT THE LOCAL POPULATION What you are suggesting would kill local miners & force them to move out. YOUR IDEA WOULD BE A WORSE REAL IMPACT IN THE SPACE IT OCCURS IN! |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 19:10:00 -
[456] - Quote
The problem with vanguards is their payout versus their size is too big. You have tiny fleets that can pump out lots of isk and in a relatively short amount of time. Then, on the next level up on the sites, you get a drastic boost to the number of hoops to jump through without a relational boost to the isk.
What really needs to happen is a very minor fixes that will go long ways. As many of us know, it is rather difficult to manage very large numbers of people effectively. What CCP really needs to do is make HQ's have the vanguard Isk/hour. And keep the HQ's just as long. So basically, Headquarters need a massive boost to their payout per hour.
Headquarter sites are so long and require so many people the fleets take a long time to form. On top of that, people drop in fleets left and right which requires the fleet to stop what it's doing and get new members in which will take a good bit of time. In contrast, Vanguard fleets typically run 1 heavy with a small wait list. This allows for the fleet to run nearly non stop through sites.
The problem with vanguards is there is too much isk too fast. You just need to install more time before payouts. That's basically what people are saying. Doing my changes to headquarters will naturally balance the incursions because the pay outs will still take a long time due to how long it takes to do sites, form fleets, and maintain fleet size and composition.
Then you scale the sites down with isk value for time and value with headquarters being the top of the pyramid! |
dave3NG
mgfc
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 20:15:00 -
[457] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I've helped clear out asteroid belts for local miners b4 so I actually HELPED NOT HURT THE LOCAL POPULATION What you are suggesting would kill local miners & force them to move out. YOUR IDEA WOULD BE A WORSE REAL IMPACT IN THE SPACE IT OCCURS IN!
What I simply suggested was that Incursions would create a dramatic impression on the space that they occur in, for it would be temporary. My whole thinking was that incusions would create a real cluster **** in the area that they spawn, rather than some basic pve grind.
**** OFF (i have a shift key too) |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
396
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:48:00 -
[458] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:dave3NG wrote:(Got bored on page 2 but decided to post uneducated opinion anyway)
I think Incursions should have a real impact on the space that they occur in, rather than just being random NPC spawns for PVErs..
Remove Concord and GCC / security status loss for all Incursion systems for the duration of the Incursion.
Naturally Concord would advise pilots to avoid these systems but reward loyalty points for help in thwarting the blight (goes for RP vote). I've helped clear out asteroid belts for local miners b4 so I actually HELPED NOT HURT THE LOCAL POPULATION What you are suggesting would kill local miners & force them to move out. YOUR IDEA WOULD BE A WORSE REAL IMPACT IN THE SPACE IT OCCURS IN! An incursion should absolutely hurt the local population. And if you were really worried about the local population you would kill the MS as soon as it spawned. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
135
|
Posted - 2012.03.02 21:55:00 -
[459] - Quote
dave3NG wrote: What I simply suggested was that Incursions would create a dramatic impression on the space that they occur in, for it would be temporary. My whole thinking was that incusions would create a real cluster **** in the area that they spawn, rather than some basic pve grind.
Yeah what you're suggesting is what I think a lot of us were expecting, instead like you stated we got a PvE grind..well actually worse than that we got a PvE grind that gives rewards well out of balance with the rest of the game.
I also see posts here in this thread stating that those of us that want to see High Sec Incursions removed or radically changed are all from Sov holding Nullsec groups, this just isn't so. None of my characters have lived in Sov Null for several years, nor do I have plans to do so, I was sold on EVE on the idea that it's a player conflict driven Sandbox, a progeny as it were of pre Trammel UO. High Sec Incursions is the antithesis of this, it's Themepark PvE.
As Dave3NG suggested Incursions would be a much better fit for EVE were it more dynamic, a genuine disruption. It's an Incursion it should seen as a threat by everyone living in that space that aren't allied to the Sansha, not a convenient predictable 'Sansha Themepark ride' that prints ISK on demand.
|
adopt
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
274
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 00:28:00 -
[460] - Quote
I'll give my insight as a former incursion runner.
Vanguards, holy **** they need to be nerfed, 20-30% payout decrease as well as an increase in the number of battleships per site. Preferably Outuni Mesens (as they are the bane of AS/HQ runners, so they should be for VGs as well). Vanguards need to not be repetitive as well, so make them more like the final room of an NCN (Which is completely random) to make them more entertaining.
Assaults, these are the bastard child of Incursions, poor money for alot of effort. I suggest buffing the Payout of them from 26mil and 5k LP to 29mil and 6k LP. On top of this, make the sites more random, I found it incredibly boring as a Logistics pilot. More random spawns, I would love for an Outuni spawn not on a spreadsheet to destroy some spaceships.
Headquarters, these were my favorite sites, very sociable, very hard. However, after 4 months of running them they became EZMODE. Please make the NPCs more difficult, more random, and much harder to kill. I used to test how low I could take my Logistics; I managed to complete a TPPH with 4 Basilisks (Tengu booster), NRF with 5 (4 Basilisks 1 Scimitar) TCRC with 7 (5 Basilisks 2 Scimitars). This is far too easy, make them much more difficult than they currently are, if I have to reduce the "safety" of the fleet to make it hard some work needs to be done.
Motherships, THESE SITES ARE FAR TOO EASY FOR 80 PEOPLE. Remove TRTs, make dangerous Sanshas constantly spawn, for example Outuni Mesens, Arnon Epithalamus, Deltole Tegmentums, so on and so forth.
I am in before I get flamed, I used to run all 4 types of sites vOv Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled. |
|
adopt
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
274
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 00:34:00 -
[461] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Halboreth wrote: Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Headquarters: Now you can earn 280 m isk an hour in incursions. Hands down, as a longtime incursion runner and capable of FC'ing HQs. This would do wonders for my wallets. On the other hand I sincerely doubt the logic of this in a game design perspective.
Ammzi you must be bullshitting on 280mil an hour, Serge and I got it up to 200mil at most Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
844
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 13:06:00 -
[462] - Quote
adopt wrote:Ammzi wrote:Halboreth wrote: Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Headquarters: Now you can earn 280 m isk an hour in incursions. Hands down, as a longtime incursion runner and capable of FC'ing HQs. This would do wonders for my wallets. On the other hand I sincerely doubt the logic of this in a game design perspective. Ammzi you must be bullsh itting on 280mil an hour, Serge and I got it up to 200mil at most
It was meant as a sarcastic comment to his suggestion of HQ.payout = 2 * VG.payout while I misread and failed at my calculations. So just ignore that.
edit: Holy ****, does the forum save drafts of posts now!? Omg awesome! quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 18:36:00 -
[463] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:adopt wrote:Ammzi wrote:Halboreth wrote: Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.
Headquarters: Now you can earn 280 m isk an hour in incursions. Hands down, as a longtime incursion runner and capable of FC'ing HQs. This would do wonders for my wallets. On the other hand I sincerely doubt the logic of this in a game design perspective. Ammzi you must be bullsh itting on 280mil an hour, Serge and I got it up to 200mil at most It was meant as a sarcastic comment to his suggestion of HQ.payout = 2 * VG.payout while I misread and failed at my calculations. So just ignore that. edit: Holy ****, does the forum save drafts of posts now!? Omg awesome!
I hope CCP TRIPLES vanguard payouts so NULL SEC tears flow like rivers into my tear barrel here I keep in the forums
Still waiting for the DISLIKE button in forums CCP so I can click dislike on my own posts |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
844
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 20:56:00 -
[464] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
I hope CCP TRIPLES vanguard payouts so NULL SEC tears flow like rivers into my tear barrel here I keep in the forums
Still waiting for the DISLIKE button in forums CCP so I can click dislike on my own posts
Hey Darth. I still have your vote from back in last spring where you voted against the agreements. Do you remember that? *grins* quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
60
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 01:58:00 -
[465] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
I hope CCP TRIPLES vanguard payouts so NULL SEC tears flow like rivers into my tear barrel here I keep in the forums
Still waiting for the DISLIKE button in forums CCP so I can click dislike on my own posts Hey Darth. I still have your vote from back in last spring where you voted against the agreements. Do you remember that? *grins*
YEP i tell that to people all the time I was against farming & they don't believe it.... |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
73
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 15:51:00 -
[466] - Quote
Does anyone else think, if they just removed the cruiser side of NCNs completely, that assaults would be much more in line?
Not fixed entirely, I mean....just much, much better. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
62
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 21:52:00 -
[467] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Does anyone else think, if they just removed the cruiser side of NCNs completely, that assaults would be much more in line?
Not fixed entirely, I mean....just much, much better.
NCN's are a ***** because the time it takes to do them is way out of balance with EVERYTHING else in the Incursions and all the fleet rebalancing always necessary which is not required for any othe PvE site. Its was a fun idea & is very random but needs still more polishing... like the removal of 1 middle room would help some in the time it takes. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 10:48:00 -
[468] - Quote
Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 08:25:00 -
[469] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous sustainable 200 mil/hour is a ridiculas lie |
Rukia Taika
Allied Operations Jokers Wild.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 09:14:00 -
[470] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous
i smell a.......TROLL!!!!! kill it!!!
you be lucky if you are able to do 100mill an hour with a good fleet as crowded as the incursion sites are. |
|
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 09:49:00 -
[471] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous sustainable 200 mil/hour is a ridiculas lie
Even sustainable 100mil/per hour in perfect safety is blatantly broken.
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
142
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 15:15:00 -
[472] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous sustainable 200 mil/hour is a ridiculas lie Even sustainable 100mil/per hour in perfect safety is blatantly broken. 100mil/hour is NOT sustainable. People leave, sites get contested, and after 60 or so people in a vanguard system the sites start getting finished faster than they can respawn. Also, if you have a problem with people pulling 100mil/hour by banding together, you must also hate people who can pull 60-70 an hour on their own in lvl 4s yeh? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
68
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 21:17:00 -
[473] - Quote
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:Nerf hi-sec payouts.
Or nerf concord in affected constellations so it can be tanked/killed.
200mil per hour in perfect safety is ridiculous sustainable 200 mil/hour is a ridiculas lie Even sustainable 100mil/per hour in perfect safety is blatantly broken.
INCURSIONS CAN BE DONE WITH PERFECT SAFETY IS A BLATANT LIE TOLD BY LIARS |
ian papabear
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 17:56:00 -
[474] - Quote
suggestions
bounties on every single one of the rats in sites
what would this accomplish?
you could nerf the isk paypout down to about a maximum of 6-7 mill a site in vanguards and that payout would only come after killing ALL the rats in the site rather than blitzing sites likes otas
another suggestion:
double the raw hp of rats or doubling the power of reppers like mara
what would this accomplish?
youd be in the site double the amount of time it normally takes, keep the payout the same however increase time in site. Doubling the effectiveness of mara would force players to actually primary targets rather than have shiny fleets be able to kill a tama on thier own.
yet another suggestion:
beef up requirements and have it where only bs, bcs, and logi can enter the sites rather than have these t3 fleets which chew through nmcs and nco in no time.
if anyone knows incursions, they know that legion fleets are the bread winners of vanguards. they can top out at close to 260 mill an hour and thats the real problem. 100 mill an hour is not practical even for a fleet of pirate faction bs, you have people going in and out the fleet, getting contests, people dcing, etc
and the reason im so oriented around vanguards is because there is nothiong unbalanced with hq and assault sites. until incursions are nerfed, vanguards sites will always be the breadwinner of incursions |
ian papabear
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 18:13:00 -
[475] - Quote
Andski wrote:ian papabear wrote:Imo there is nothing wrong with the current mechanics of incursions at all. If people want to complain , well whatever boohooo: thats the reason why CCP has developed so many options in the game for us to try out. Whether it be pvp, mining, running complexes, trying out wormholes, trading, and even scamming.. these are all things people can do if they have an issue with incursions all of which can pay more or close to what a fleet makes from running incursions all day. yeah of course incursions are balanced, 100m+ isk/hr printed risk-free in hisec lol it's getting nerfed, deal with it
"its getting nerfed, deal with it"
you say that like im upset or sad they they are getting nerfed lol. i do plenty of other things to make isk and im perfectly fine with incursions being nerfed.
and btw, if youre going to respond to my post make sure you read everything and reply to everything that i stated in my posts rather than giving me a broad response. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 21:01:00 -
[476] - Quote
ian papabear wrote:suggestions
if anyone knows incursions, they know that legion fleets are the bread winners of vanguards. they can top out at close to 260 mill an hour and thats the real problem. 100 mill an hour is not practical even for a fleet of pirate faction bs, you have people going in and out the fleet, getting contests, people dcing, etc
and the reason im so oriented around vanguards is because there is nothiong unbalanced with hq and assault sites. until incursions are nerfed, vanguards sites will always be the breadwinner of incursions
Sustained 260 million an hour is rarely possible. The legion/T3 fleets have to jump system to system doing this with scouts or work in tandem with MAC nightmare ships doing OTAs at 3-4 minute tics even then you got the NMCs starting to stack eventually. But for the most part still I agree with you. The OTA's & especially NCO's have 2-4 minute tics while the NMC's are about 9-15 minute tics thanx to the shineists of shiney armour T3's/ shield MAC NMs Either add timed spacing of spawns in these 2 site to make them on par with NMC tics or some other buff of these rats would be a way to slow up the faucet |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 23:41:00 -
[477] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:ian papabear wrote:suggestions
if anyone knows incursions, they know that legion fleets are the bread winners of vanguards. they can top out at close to 260 mill an hour and thats the real problem. 100 mill an hour is not practical even for a fleet of pirate faction bs, you have people going in and out the fleet, getting contests, people dcing, etc
and the reason im so oriented around vanguards is because there is nothiong unbalanced with hq and assault sites. until incursions are nerfed, vanguards sites will always be the breadwinner of incursions Sustained 260 million an hour is rarely possible. The legion/T3 fleets have to jump system to system doing this with scouts or work in tandem with MAC nightmare ships doing OTAs at 3-4 minute tics even then you got the NMCs starting to stack eventually. But for the most part still I agree with you. The OTA's & especially NCO's have 2-4 minute tics while the NMC's are about 9-15 minute tics thanx to the shineists of shiney armour T3's/ shield MAC NMs Either add timed spacing of spawns in these 2 site to make them on par with NMC tics or some other buff of these rats would be a way to slow up the faucet
Darth, don't feed the trolls. You know as well as anyone that no one has ever hit 260M/hour. Assuming 10 man fleet, and 10M/site, that means 26 sites/hour. That means a site every 138 seconds, or 2 minutes, 18 seconds.
Even if you can do a VG site that fast, which you can't, there is the small thing of flying between sites, warping through the gate, and oh yeah, waiting for sites to respawn.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 00:22:00 -
[478] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Darth, don't feed the trolls. You know as well as anyone that no one has ever hit 260M/hour. Assuming 10 man fleet, and 10M/site, that means 26 sites/hour. That means a site every 138 seconds, or 2 minutes, 18 seconds.
Even if you can do a VG site that fast, which you can't, there is the small thing of flying between sites, warping through the gate, and oh yeah, waiting for sites to respawn.
For the most part you are correct its nearly impossible to make 200+ million is an hour unless you include concord lp prices from before the collapse of Concord lp of ~9k per lp ( now its worth under 1k) as part of the isk/hour calculation. Almost all the fleets I've been in (& many FC'd) the past 2 weeks have made under 100 million an hour only 1 or 2 above and none over 130 million an hour! And I am nearly always skirting the top 10 lists in the incursions I participate in |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3140
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 01:55:00 -
[479] - Quote
yes please make highsec incursions worthwhile enough for nullsec pilots to hilariously own you in every contest and basically "blob" you back to l4s "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
167
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 03:28:00 -
[480] - Quote
While I would prefer a solution to High Sec Incursions that involved adding player conflict and RP, such as allowing players to fight for the Sansha, there is another solution to this problem..
Have High Sec Incursions reward only Loyalty Points and give it a unique store where only new modules and ammo can be purchased that are only useful in Incursions PvE and have no value whatsoever to the rest of the game. |
|
Rukia Taika
Allied Operations Jokers Wild.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 06:17:00 -
[481] - Quote
Xorv wrote:While I would prefer a solution to High Sec Incursions that involved adding player conflict and RP, such as allowing players to fight for the Sansha, there is another solution to this problem..
Have High Sec Incursions reward only Loyalty Points and give it a unique store where only new modules and ammo can be purchased that are only useful in Incursions PvE and have no value whatsoever to the rest of the game.
thats crazy talk! It would just shift people to running missions that are slowly getting nicer payouts then what they were. peolpe do these for multiple reasons. I have seen many of you 0.0 pilots in there farming them right along side to make isk to pay for your PVP ships. I know with the 0.0 sanctum/haven nerf has hurt the power blocks which i think was intentionally done by GOON CSM guys in hope of gaining a better foot hold since they cannot fly super caps. 10k rifter fleet. lol
all i gotta say is those whining about the incursions in how much folks make are crying like little school girls cause the empire guys got smart. just deal with it cause many of them do not wish to go out to low sec or null sec space.
The more you talk the more you look like a 2 year old. grow up. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
168
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 18:52:00 -
[482] - Quote
Rukia Taika wrote:I have seen many of you 0.0 pilots in there farming them right along side to make isk to pay for your PVP ships. I'm not a 0.0 pilot.
Your right about level 4 missions in high sec, those should also be addressed, once Incursions is dealt with.
As to what's crazy... I might be the crazy one were EVE supposed to be a themepark MMO built around PvE. However as a player conflict driven Sandbox the craziness is having PvP free PvE that is even remotely competitive with PvE in areas where PvP is much more likely. In fact I can't think of another Sandbox MMO where there was any PvE free from PvP other than for day old newbie characters.
But you know if CCP Soundwave, or any of the other members of CCP that seem to defend Incursions wants to come here and tell me the official plan is for EVE to be a more of a Themepark type game where PvP is consensual and PvE and PvP are to be firewalled from one another, I'll just bow out and stop posting. Until then, you better come up with better arguments than calling me childish and making wild assumptions about me being 0.0 pilot. |
M1k3y Koontz
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 20:48:00 -
[483] - Quote
Moving incursions to lowsec would give lowsec SOMETHING worth visiting (which it really lacks now, though the Monolith near EVE Gate is pretty cool)
Also, Ending site spawning after the mothership spawn = Great idea, love it
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 03:05:00 -
[484] - Quote
How about fixing the fact that the only way to compete with a script using NINJA looter is to use a script yourself in the MOM fight? 70 versus 1 or 2 & the 1 or 2 get the loot 95%+ of the time... NAH they aint using a script its the game mechanics I guess that always allow that 1 person NOT FLEETED to get the loot repeatedly . HOW ABOUT MAKING THE NINJA LOOTERS RED TO THE ENTIRE FLEET? |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
168
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 08:06:00 -
[485] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:HOW ABOUT MAKING THE NINJA LOOTERS RED TO THE ENTIRE FLEET?
How about taking criminal flagging and the rest of that crap out of Incursions entirely for a true Sandbox experience!
PS I know you think using CAPS makes everything you say true, but I must tell you that the truth revealed by Bold and Italics trumps CAPS every time.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
78
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 18:25:00 -
[486] - Quote
Xorv wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:HOW ABOUT MAKING THE NINJA LOOTERS RED TO THE ENTIRE FLEET? How about taking criminal flagging and the rest of that crap out of Incursions entirely for a true Sandbox experience!PS I know you think using CAPS makes everything you say true, but I must tell you that the truth revealed by Bold and Italics trumps CAPS every time.
Criminal flagging has been taken out of many Incursions they are at the ones in NULL sec.. you can go there & have fun buddy |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 15:28:00 -
[487] - Quote
They are lucrative because they are 'grindable' .. the design goal was to make them as hard/challenging as possible (sleeper AI et al) if I recall.
All that needs be done is to introduce a wrench. The Sansha are attacking an entire constellation at a time with umpteen sites active at all times, are they as inept as the various navies in FW in that they don't know how to operate a comms device?
Wrench: When a site is 50-66% complete a distress call is made. RNG determines whether it is heeded, if it is then all Sansha from a nearby site warps to the aid of their comrades. Note: The nearby site may contain ships larger than what would normally spawn in site from which the SOS was sent! Result: - Some sites will never be able to be completed as the spawns relocate = contraction of ISK faucet. - Having a horde of disjointed 'gangs' doing their own sites will become hazardous as poddies will also have to aid one another. - Vanguard farming is made obsolete as long as larger sites are nearby. - The individual site becomes much more of a challenge as one never knows when/if reinforcements arrive so optimized.
Personally loathe the damn things, made half a billion in a few hours in LS Vanguards and turned from them in disgust (same as I have done with FW missions btw).
Words to live by: If it is not fun, then why do it? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
79
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 17:17:00 -
[488] - Quote
posted |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
79
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 17:18:00 -
[489] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida Words to live by: If it is not fun, then why do it? [/quote wrote:I agree & after a year I'm still having fun doing them... while I'm having fun I'll continue & hope U have fun too in your current Eve endevors too sir
|
Andski
GoonWaffe
3219
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 18:39:00 -
[490] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:How about fixing the fact that the only way to compete with a script using NINJA looter is to use a script yourself in the MOM fight? 70 versus 1 or 2 & the 1 or 2 get the loot 95%+ of the time... NAH they aint using a script its the game mechanics I guess that always allow that 1 person NOT FLEETED to get the loot repeatedly . HOW ABOUT MAKING THE NINJA LOOTERS RED TO THE ENTIRE FLEET?
shut up you bleating moron
this is a trade-off, you want to run incursions in the safety of highsec, you get to deal with ninja looters "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
|
Crucis Cassiopeiae
EvE-COM
937
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 19:09:00 -
[491] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
^^ This!
WoW... I agree with you
+ Sansha rats everywhere. On gates + stations + moons and planets + belts (would love to see all botts and afkers dead because of this ) (they must re-spawn) Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470-á |
Evgeneia
Sanguis Rosa Vicious OuTLaW
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 07:00:00 -
[492] - Quote
concord disappear at incursion system.
sansha invasioned... and concord? :D |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
426
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 09:48:00 -
[493] - Quote
Easy
Get rid of CONCORD response in empire
Fixed. Risk/Reward etc.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Deriah Book
Fox Clan Inari Kimon
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 19:18:00 -
[494] - Quote
Didn't read the entire thread yet, so much will probably be redundant. But I have a hearty suggestion based on my opinion that incursions are a vital part of EVE.
Things about EVE that I knew nothing about before running incursions: * Fleet composition - the difference and mechanics of boost vs. command. * Offgrid boost ships. * Fleet composition - the roles of different ship and fitting possibilities. * Slot 6-10 implants. * As a Minmatar toon I could train other racial skills. * Using remote mods, such as cap transfers. * How to set up my overview - Tags and being able to move columns coming to mind first. * How to D-Scan immediate space. * EVE voice structure in fleet. * The LP store. * Aggression rules.
Things that incursioning really opened up for me: * Understanding of non meta 0-5 mods. * Webbing, tracking, optimal and falloff, ammo types... etc. * Fitting in general. * Fleet discipline. * Using jump clones. * Using the remapping facility. * The ability to afford more expensive ships to lose. * ...and... The Big One
The Big One
My girlfriend and I started incursions after having played EVE for about a year. We got the idea from a single corp member. The rest of our small corp had not considered incursions yet. We started in Maelstroms in pick-up fleets and worked our way up to shiny Machariels in elite fleets. The rest of our corp started seeing the iskies we were bringing in and we trained them to fly incursions. Now the whole corps are incursion veterans.
Our entire corp speaks with each other daily on Vent. We always have. We have been in wormhole space my entire EVE career. We also operate in highsec and lowsec regularly. We have been through a few formal and informal alliances. Here's where I get to the point: Each of us, to the last man and woman, were genuinely under the impression that EVE was populated by psychopaths. We really had no faith, whatsoever, that anyone else playing the game had any social or ethical merit at all. We saw all other players as functionally inept, at least semi-trog, anti socials. And it kind of makes sense that we saw it that way. EVE etiquette usually dictates either smack talk or complete silence in PVP interactions.
Incursions brought us to fly with, and voice chat with those very people that we never before had any real interaction with. Incursions opened up EVE to us in ways we never imagined. Our understanding that nearly everyone else in EVE is just like us - children and grownups enjoying the best MMO ever made. It has made us more willing to engage in PVP, explore freely sectors of space we normally otherwise avoided, and have a greater sense of community in the conflicts that are daily life in EVE. We are genuinely enjoying EVE more and are more engaged in the sandbox and incursions can be directly related to a small but vital shift in our attitudes.
Another added benefit is the ISK. As a small corp we are always struggling to figure out where the next carrier or rorq is going to come from. Small corps have a really hard time with the more pricey aspects of EVE. I think incursions, like higher level mission, sleepers, ratting, and PVP add a necessary flow of income for those players who do not own large swaths of nullsec. That being said, we just built two carriers and a rorq and not one isk of it came from incursions. We actually liken incursioning to ice mining. Grinding incursions can become quite tiresome and there is so much more to EVE we just consider it "another" activity to keep us interested.
My girlfriend and I just moved in real life. We didn't budget well and if it weren't for incursion isk we would not have EVE accounts right now. Bonus!
My point after all this is that incursions are one of the best things in EVE. Level 4 and 5 missions, sleepers, plexes... all those things *could* teach players the lessons about how big and functional EVE really is, could get players to interact with each other in the general public, but they don't because there is no motivation. ISK. ISK is the motivation that brings players together.
I don't think payouts should be lowered. I even like the idea of increasing them for the larger fleets. I do like the ideas about decreasing payouts as the incursion goes on, forcing earlier mom kills. Mom withdrawals is a cool idea too.
But I have an idea to add to those and all the other truly productive suggestions regarding incursions.
Make an absolute Sansha Kill Rate. 1.3% or whatever. Randomize it so you don't know when it's coming. But in every incursion site vangaurd and above introduce additional spawns that will, without question, kill 90% of the fleet. Set the rate to take no more than a reasonable percentage of all incursion fleets over a given period. But make it so that when you decide to incursion, you know you're going to lose at some point.
Shiny fleets will completely disappear.
Personally, I would like to see Sansha actually capture some of us. On day you are incursioning, the next day you disappear of the radar. You're corpies are wondering where you are and every time you log into EVE your only option is to fly a Sansha ship and die to the hands of your brethren until someone who cares enough hunts you down and rescues you.
I know that would never fly. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 19:44:00 -
[495] - Quote
Deriah Book wrote:* ...and... The Big One
The Big One
My girlfriend and I started incursions after having played EVE for about a year. We got the idea from a single corp member. (snip) My girlfriend and I just moved in real life. We didn't budget well and if it weren't for incursion isk we would not have EVE accounts right now. Bonus!
(snip) Personally, I would like to see Sansha actually capture some of us. One day you are incursioning, the next day you disappear of the radar. You're corpies are wondering where you are and every time you log into EVE your only option is to fly a Sansha ship and die at the hands of your brethren until someone who cares enough hunts you down and rescues you.
I know that would never fly.
lol Incursions brought 2 people together if you NERF Incursions CCP they will drift apart or Divorce DON'T BREAK UP A RL RELATIONSHIP BY GETTING RID OF INCURSIONS
|
Deriah Book
Fox Clan Inari Kimon
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 19:51:00 -
[496] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote:* ...and... The Big One
The Big One....
lol Incursions brought 2 people together if you NERF Incursions CCP they will drift apart or Divorce DON'T BREAK UP A RL RELATIONSHIP BY GETTING RID OF INCURSIONS
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that we met in incursions. I could have left her out of the story. I'm just remembering it how it went down. The Big One is that our corp were genuinely surprised by our interaction with other players. Maybe even you.
For that, we are thankful. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 20:00:00 -
[497] - Quote
Deriah Book wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote:* ...and... The Big One
The Big One....
lol Incursions brought 2 people together if you NERF Incursions CCP they will drift apart or Divorce DON'T BREAK UP A RL RELATIONSHIP BY GETTING RID OF INCURSIONS Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that we met in incursions. I could have left her out of the story. I'm just remembering it how it went down. The Big One is that our corp were genuinely surprised by our interaction with other players. Maybe even you. For that, we are thankful. :) i WAS BEING a bit of a facetious troll but meant it to be funny We've probably competed for sites I'm an evil armor FC |
Deriah Book
Fox Clan Inari Kimon
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 20:06:00 -
[498] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote:* ...and... The Big One
The Big One....
lol Incursions brought 2 people together if you NERF Incursions CCP they will drift apart or Divorce DON'T BREAK UP A RL RELATIONSHIP BY GETTING RID OF INCURSIONS Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that we met in incursions. I could have left her out of the story. I'm just remembering it how it went down. The Big One is that our corp were genuinely surprised by our interaction with other players. Maybe even you. For that, we are thankful. :) i WAS BEING a bit of a facetious troll but meant it to be funny We've probably competed for sites I'm an evil armor FC You've GOT A GREAT POINT the Incursions have brought alot of peeps together & have added to the social parts of Eve MMO... without Incursions too many would be just doing solo missioning
lol. whoops.
You get the NCOs, we'll clear the OTAs for ya. But next time, you drop the ore. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 23:09:00 -
[499] - Quote
Deriah Book wrote: lol. whoops. Going back through and reading the thread now. It is quite funny at points.
You get the NCOs, we'll clear the OTAs for ya. But next time, you drop the ore.
I would but I can't get the @#$!!! logi to fit a AB in my fleets!!! Thats why u guys keep dropping the ore b4 me fleets...Dealing with logi is like CAT herding in the extreme |
Ana'Gia
Pink Bunny Club
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.20 20:36:00 -
[500] - Quote
TBH i havnt read the entire thread. I just like to post my idea of incursion Pros - Nice PVE Content - You only can do it in a grou - meeting new folk Negative - VGs are really to eas - bigger sites should be more profitabl
How it should be - VG Fleets are too easy(make them harder 3 mins per site is a laugh - HQ fleets should be the most profitable sites (ISK/hour -HQ>Assault>Vanguard - get rid of staging Vanguard assault hq systems- Fleets need to look for their prefered site in the whole constellatio - so each system can have 2 vg sites, 2 Assault , 2 HQ Site - this makes VG fleets less efective and players look for bigger fleet |
|
Rukia Taika
Allied Operations Jokers Wild.
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 07:21:00 -
[501] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote: lol. whoops. Going back through and reading the thread now. It is quite funny at points.
You get the NCOs, we'll clear the OTAs for ya. But next time, you drop the ore.
I would but I can't get the @#$!!! logi to fit a AB in my fleets!!! Thats why u guys keep dropping the ore b4 me fleets...Dealing with logi is like CAT herding in the extreme
Dude you forgot something. when they join fleet the logi need to have an AB. sadly i know many do not only a select few. your good FC man. maybe telling the ore dropper to start his run a little early if he has no ab |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 10:04:00 -
[502] - Quote
Leave Incursions as they are now. Alot of people get together form up a fleet, make isk, make LP and have fun.
There's nothing broken with current scheme. I was doing incursions with alot of people from whole world and it was very fun and entertaining.
So don't fix anything it is very good as it is, was for 2 years now. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
559
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 12:05:00 -
[503] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Leave Incursions as they are now. Alot of people get together form up a fleet, make isk, make LP and have fun.
There's nothing broken with current scheme. I was doing incursions with alot of people from whole world and it was very fun and entertaining.
So don't fix anything it is very good as it is, was for 2 years now. Again, you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. Incursions are getting rebalanced, to late to stop that now.
You should just be pushing for a value redistribution instead of them nerfing them into the ground, that way you get to keep running them, and even have a reason to complete them as fast as possible
Or you can keep fighting a battle thats already lost, and complain about how they don't need it(hint: they do need a value redistribution, they should not be profitable to farm) Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Ammzi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
864
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 15:52:00 -
[504] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: was for 2 years now.
This is why CCP shouldn't listen to you. You don't even know how long incursions have been out. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:28:00 -
[505] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Spc One wrote:Leave Incursions as they are now. Alot of people get together form up a fleet, make isk, make LP and have fun.
There's nothing broken with current scheme. I was doing incursions with alot of people from whole world and it was very fun and entertaining.
So don't fix anything it is very good as it is, was for 2 years now. Again, you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. Incursions are getting rebalanced, to late to stop that now. )
Oh? What birdy told you that there will be a NERF (or a BUF for that matter)? lol I've seen 1 or 2 comments by CCP employees about Incursions & hundreds of peeps interpreting these comments the way THEY WANT TO HEAR IT. I have not seen anything written in stone. I saw one comment by a CCP employee saying there MAY be changes comming soon. Soon could mean a month or six months ( or literally in the month of MAY :) or whenever we get around to it after more pressing issues.
I'll laugh i the self fullfilling prophecy you are trying to create blows up in your face & makes U MAD BRO! |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 16:37:00 -
[506] - Quote
Rukia Taika wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Deriah Book wrote: lol. whoops. Going back through and reading the thread now. It is quite funny at points.
You get the NCOs, we'll clear the OTAs for ya. But next time, you drop the ore.
I would but I can't get the @#$!!! logi to fit a AB in my fleets!!! Thats why u guys keep dropping the ore b4 me fleets...Dealing with logi is like CAT herding in the extreme Dude you forgot something. when they join fleet the logi need to have an AB. sadly i know many do not only a select few. your good FC man. maybe telling the ore dropper to start his run a little early if he has no ab
lol like I believe the fits they post are always the actual fits in the ship they are flying :) Beggers can't be choosers & usually I'm begging for logi ( except last night when I was forced to have a fleet with 5 logi & 4 DPS because there were no DPS xing up ) all the logi xing up are MINE? MINe! mInE ... MINE mine, MINEMINEMINEMINEMINEMINEMINE MINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINEMINE MINE MINE |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 19:55:00 -
[507] - Quote
Ah. CCP just remove incursions they're too annoying.
That will solve everything. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
559
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 20:11:00 -
[508] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: was for 2 years now.
This is why CCP shouldn't listen to you. You don't even know how long incursions have been out. Nice misquote. I have never posted that text(just did a quick search to double check )
If you are gonna try to discredit someone, at least use the truth. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 20:46:00 -
[509] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Ammzi wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: was for 2 years now.
This is why CCP shouldn't listen to you. You don't even know how long incursions have been out. Nice misquote. I have never posted that text(just did a quick search to double check ) If you are gonna try to discredit someone, at least use the truth.
Confirming that you cannot use the edit feature to change what you previously wrote in the Forums Also confirming that Amzi/Krissada has never wronged anyone in Eve before Also confirming that people in the Eve forums have never misquoted anyone Also confirming that no one (especially me ;) has ever made a mistake in taking out the quotes in the parsing of replies of a quote within a quote... lol |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
560
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 06:01:00 -
[510] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Ammzi wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: was for 2 years now.
This is why CCP shouldn't listen to you. You don't even know how long incursions have been out. Nice misquote. I have never posted that text(just did a quick search to double check ) If you are gonna try to discredit someone, at least use the truth. Confirming that you cannot use the edit feature to change what you previously wrote in the Forums Also confirming that Amzi/Krissada has never wronged anyone in Eve before Also confirming that people in the Eve forums have never misquoted anyone Also confirming that no one (especially me ;) has ever made a mistake in taking out the quotes in the parsing of replies of a quote within a quote... lol psst! You can look up what people have edited out if you have the right tools. Google can help ya ;)
And if you are gonna impugn my character, there are many ways to do so that totally do not involve lying about me, I don't care enough about what people think of me to hide unsavory facts about myself.
Just enough that if you think I am scum I want it to be based on the truth, not some ****** who can't figure out who said what. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3270
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 07:26:00 -
[511] - Quote
i wouldn't worry about anything ammzi says, his relevance depends entirely on running some incursion channel "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Dinger
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 17:24:00 -
[512] - Quote
Just found this one, apologies for anything repeated
Problems with incursions
Availability GÇô low numbers and spawn rates of incursions especially in high sec and/or over weekends leads to both farming and overcrowding:
Farming GÇô Immersion breaking, the thing we need to kill to end this invasion is right over there, so weGÇÖll ignore it for a week to make bank? Causes denial of operation to local inhabitants, who often would like to help out but canGÇÖt due to...
Overcrowding - leads to so much competition in the available incursions that shiny fleets are the only way to consistently win competed sites and make isk, this renders incursions inaccessible to newer players who canGÇÖt fly said shiny ships, why would a competent FC take a 400dps Harbinger over a 700dps Legion knowing heGÇÖs going to be competing for sites with damage done as the measure for success
Predictability GÇô a quick search on Eve Survival/Google gives you all the information you need on the site you're about to run, reducing tactics to avoid the trigger, kill the primary threats (ECM/neuts) then focus fire working your way down the list.
Reward distribution - currently sites requiring the lowest risk/coordination (vanguards) pay the most while the highest risk/coordination sites (HQ) pay least
Proposed solutions:
Availability Within both high and low sec there are essentially 4 regions, (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar) with 6 in null (Angels, Bloods, Drones, Guristas, Sansha, Serpentis) altering the spawning mechanics such that a new incursion spawns immediately after the mothership of the preceding is destroyed in order to ensure there are a minimum number of active incursions within each level of security, (between 2-4 in each of high and low and 3-6 in null) will remove the justification of keeping the content available for keeping the incursion alive.
Farming: In concert with the above cut down the ability of people to farm by reducing the incursion timer to between 24 and 48 hours, and add a bonus to CONCORD LP awards to encourage even faster completion. <75% time: 25% <50% time: 50% <25% time: 75% <12.5% time: 100%
Also change site spawning mechanics based on influence: 25%: Staging sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 50%: Vanguard sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 75%: Assault sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 100%: Mom spawns, HQ sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn
The overall timer and LP bonuses encourage rapid completion of the incursion, while the influence effect discourages farming, although will require a change to the mechanic so the influence doesnGÇÖt change quite so fast. The logic? for the former the idea that you would be rewarded more for allowing an invasion force to remain any longer than it would otherwise take to remove them is crazy, and for the latter SanshaGÇÖs would consolidate their defences around their keys installations as their influence waned, this could also allow for more sites of all levels to be distributed throughout the constellation rather than concentrated in set locations.
These changes alone should solve both the overcrowding and farming issues, By having more shorter incursions travel becomes a limiting factor to all but the most hardcore decreasing competition and increasing accessibility for newer players.
Predictability The recent changes to belt rats show it can be done, rather than have X number of NPC1 and Y number of NPC2 make it so you instead face X+Y number of random (size)NPC
Example: The first wave of the Nation Rebirth Faciliy (HQ)
Current: [Source: Eve Survival] Wave 1 Battleships 1 x Deltole Tegmentum [neut, paint, scram] 3 x Ostingele Tectum Cruisers 1 x Mara Paleo [rr] 3 x Romi Thalamus 1 x Uitra Telen 1 x Vylade Dien [command ship] TRIGGER Frigates 4 x Renyn Meten [web] 2 x Schmaeel Medulla [scram, web]
Change to: Wave 1 4 x battleship 6 x cruiser (random trigger) 6 x frigate
Under such a system one site may see the players going up against an all-out sniper fleet (Yulai/Antem/Tama) and spawning the second wave with the first cruiser kill, with another group going against a full line up of ECM/neut ships (Otuni/Arnon/Niarja) but not spawning the second wave until killing the last cruiser.
Reward distribution Change vanguards such that average payouts per hour are reduced to slightly better than lvl4s, this combined with the removal of those sites at 50% influence should make assaults more popular in turn reducing the single biggest time sink (namely [re]assembling the fleet) so the rewards for assaults can be left as is for now but keep the option to adjust either way as necessary in order to keep them between vans and HQs, increase HQ payouts significantly to make them the highest paid per hour to reflect the increased run time, co-ordination and risk associated with them.
Other random ideas:
Make scout sites worthwhile
More sites in general, especially objective based, the True Creations Research Centre (HQ) is a decent example of such.
Follow on to previous, escalations, a (small) random chance at a special encounter (assist the local navy repel an assault at planet Y, help a CONCORD task force break into installation X, or sucklike)
Random (non-scrambling) spawns at stations/gates/belts/planets, maybe with neutral transports, etc. adding to the immersion by expanding the incursion to a system wide conflict.
Some kind of (temporary) penalty for failure to drive out an incursion, nothing as extreme as making highsec into lowsec, but something which will make a noticeable impact for as long as it lasts
More items in the CONCORD LP store
|
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.22 18:01:00 -
[513] - Quote
Dinger wrote:
More items in the CONCORD LP store
I'd like to see some 10% Concord implants that are a huge ISK sink
|
Pesadel0
the muppets RED.OverLord
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 17:12:00 -
[514] - Quote
Make more sites for incursions increase respawn rate and move them all to low sec , 0.0 and empire get none . |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
696
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 17:46:00 -
[515] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Dinger wrote:
More items in the CONCORD LP store
I'd like to see some 10% Concord implants that are a huge ISK sink
Holy ****, do you know how many ship fittings that would utterly break? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 19:30:00 -
[516] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Dinger wrote:
More items in the CONCORD LP store
I'd like to see some 10% Concord implants that are a huge ISK sink Holy ****, do you know how many ship fittings that would utterly break?
No you tell me with specific examples. How many? Until I see this I'll assume you are talking out of your arse. You are telling me a jump from 6% to 10% well break Eve when the cost for implants will be 2.5 billion ISK? peeps will know by looking at fits who is in what 'plant & will get INCREDIBLE tears from PODing these 10% 'plants...
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
472
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 21:43:00 -
[517] - Quote
Since Incursions is less than 1% risk compared to belt ratting in null, Incursions should pay out less than 1% isk per hour, compared to your average belt ratter. Yes, that'd make it less than level 4's by far. But I thought you ran Incursions for fun/company, right? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
472
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 21:44:00 -
[518] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Dinger wrote:
More items in the CONCORD LP store
I'd like to see some 10% Concord implants that are a huge ISK sink Holy ****, do you know how many ship fittings that would utterly break? No you tell me with specific examples. How many? Until I see this I'll assume you are talking out of your arse. You are telling me a jump from 6% to 10% well break Eve when the cost for implants will be 2.5 billion ISK? peeps will know by looking at fits who is in what 'plant & will get INCREDIBLE tears from PODing these 10% 'plants...
..and CCP thought we'd see two, max three titans in the game since they were so expensive and such a logistic nightmare to build.. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 23:28:00 -
[519] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Since Incursions is less than 1% risk compared to belt ratting in null, Incursions should pay out less than 1% isk per hour, compared to your average belt ratter. Yes, that'd make it less than level 4's by far. But I thought you ran Incursions for fun/company, right?
Bull those belt ratting deep in thier SOV in NULL have much less risk then Incursion runners. Nice try but you know you're full of it. |
El Geo
Pathfinders. Mining For Profit Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 11:15:00 -
[520] - Quote
Dinger wrote:Just found this one, apologies for anything repeated
Problems with incursions
Availability GÇô low numbers and spawn rates of incursions especially in high sec and/or over weekends leads to both farming and overcrowding:
Farming GÇô Immersion breaking, the thing we need to kill to end this invasion is right over there, so weGÇÖll ignore it for a week to make bank? Causes denial of operation to local inhabitants, who often would like to help out but canGÇÖt due to...
Overcrowding - leads to so much competition in the available incursions that shiny fleets are the only way to consistently win competed sites and make isk, this renders incursions inaccessible to newer players who canGÇÖt fly said shiny ships, why would a competent FC take a 400dps Harbinger over a 700dps Legion knowing heGÇÖs going to be competing for sites with damage done as the measure for success
Predictability GÇô a quick search on Eve Survival/Google gives you all the information you need on the site you're about to run, reducing tactics to avoid the trigger, kill the primary threats (ECM/neuts) then focus fire working your way down the list.
Reward distribution - currently sites requiring the lowest risk/coordination (vanguards) pay the most while the highest risk/coordination sites (HQ) pay least
Proposed solutions:
Availability Within both high and low sec there are essentially 4 regions, (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar) with 6 in null (Angels, Bloods, Drones, Guristas, Sansha, Serpentis) altering the spawning mechanics such that a new incursion spawns immediately after the mothership of the preceding is destroyed in order to ensure there are a minimum number of active incursions within each level of security, (between 2-4 in each of high and low and 3-6 in null) will remove the justification of keeping the content available for keeping the incursion alive.
Farming: In concert with the above cut down the ability of people to farm by reducing the incursion timer to between 24 and 48 hours, and add a bonus to CONCORD LP awards to encourage even faster completion. <75% time: 25% <50% time: 50% <25% time: 75% <12.5% time: 100%
Also change site spawning mechanics based on influence: 25%: Staging sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 50%: Vanguard sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 75%: Assault sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn 100%: Mom spawns, HQ sites cease spawning, any not in progress despawn
The overall timer and LP bonuses encourage rapid completion of the incursion, while the influence effect discourages farming, although will require a change to the mechanic so the influence doesnGÇÖt change quite so fast. The logic? for the former the idea that you would be rewarded more for allowing an invasion force to remain any longer than it would otherwise take to remove them is crazy, and for the latter SanshaGÇÖs would consolidate their defences around their keys installations as their influence waned, this could also allow for more sites of all levels to be distributed throughout the constellation rather than concentrated in set locations.
These changes alone should solve both the overcrowding and farming issues, By having more shorter incursions travel becomes a limiting factor to all but the most hardcore decreasing competition and increasing accessibility for newer players.
Predictability The recent changes to belt rats show it can be done, rather than have X number of NPC1 and Y number of NPC2 make it so you instead face X+Y number of random (size)NPC
Example: The first wave of the Nation Rebirth Faciliy (HQ)
Current: [Source: Eve Survival] Wave 1 Battleships 1 x Deltole Tegmentum [neut, paint, scram] 3 x Ostingele Tectum Cruisers 1 x Mara Paleo [rr] 3 x Romi Thalamus 1 x Uitra Telen 1 x Vylade Dien [command ship] TRIGGER Frigates 4 x Renyn Meten [web] 2 x Schmaeel Medulla [scram, web]
Change to: Wave 1 4 x battleship 6 x cruiser (random trigger) 6 x frigate
Under such a system one site may see the players going up against an all-out sniper fleet (Yulai/Antem/Tama) and spawning the second wave with the first cruiser kill, with another group going against a full line up of ECM/neut ships (Otuni/Arnon/Niarja) but not spawning the second wave until killing the last cruiser.
Reward distribution Change vanguards such that average payouts per hour are reduced to slightly better than lvl4s, this combined with the removal of those sites at 50% influence should make assaults more popular in turn reducing the single biggest time sink (namely [re]assembling the fleet) so the rewards for assaults can be left as is for now but keep the option to adjust either way as necessary in order to keep them between vans and HQs, increase HQ payouts significantly to make them the highest paid per hour to reflect the increased run time, co-ordination and risk associated with them.
Other random ideas:
Make scout sites worthwhile
More sites in general, especially objective based, the True Creations Research Centre (HQ) is a decent example of such.
Follow on to previous, escalations, a (small) random chance at a special encounter (assist the local navy repel an assault at planet Y, help a CONCORD task force break into installation X, or sucklike)
Random (non-scrambling) spawns at stations/gates/belts/planets, maybe with neutral transports, etc. adding to the immersion by expanding the incursion to a system wide conflict.
Some kind of (temporary) penalty for failure to drive out an incursion, nothing as extreme as making highsec into lowsec, but something which will make a noticeable impact for as long as it lasts
More items in the CONCORD LP store
i dont usually read long posts but yours was interesting and sounds great
+1
(and make incursions available to any constellation inc. mixed sec) |
|
DarthNefarius
94
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 01:08:00 -
[521] - Quote
The Assualt site NCN (Nation C Network) are crap. They always stack up in assault systems too because they are crap I can't keep a fleet together to do these anymore so I just deband the fleets into 2 Vanguard fleets so they can make ISKies instead of sitting around while I try to keep these fleetstogether & recruit anymore. Reasons why they are crap: -They take too long and have at least 1 too many rooms. The ISK per hour sucks & peeps in fleet complain & drop to do Vanguards which are more worth it -They require 2 FC's one for each side. -They used to be worse when logi could not go on theright hand side but still its near impossible to keep logi in these fleets for any amount of time because the rewards suck compared to EVERY other site. -Since you are splitting into 2 sites you need to be nery nery carful about the fleet compostiion & the lose of 1 cruiser side ship or 1 logi means you are stuck witing around trying to recruit for a fleet that no one wants to join becausethey can make more isk in Vanguards even when they are losing over 50% of the competitions in VG's. - One side is almost always waiting for the other further delaying the completetion of the site making it even longer - The random nature of these sites is often fun but its no fun when both sides find they are fighting all Mara's ( repper ships ) that don't fight back they just rep each other ( or Intaki that may throw a few missles at you but repp even more then the Maras)which takes forever to break the tank
The randomness of thes site is often fun but nowadays I go to an assault system & if I see all NCNs stacked up I just leave it alone & tell everyone to just do the VG's
To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally"
|
Recoil Happens
Debatable Results
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 05:36:00 -
[522] - Quote
Create an end of the mission recap showing the contribution of each fleet member which is displayed to each fleet member. Send each fleet in the room a report for their fleet, even if another fleet won the contest.
Fleets are really just pickup fleets and not often comprised of people from the same corp. Many fleets will have a core of regular players, but every fleet seems to have good percentage of "unknown quantities" who fail to respond in the fleet voice chat when the FC calls for them, Lag behind or wander off in some random direction outside of the range of logi support, don't deploy their drones from the drone bay, or deploy but don't employ their drones, and some just do not shoot. But they all manage to get paid.
FCs and fellow fleet members need to see the contributions of fleet members beyond visual possibilities. Create a report which shows:
1) total DPS delivered for each pilot and turret type (specify weapon modules and ammo/missile/frequency crystal types)
2) total DPS delivered for each pilot's drones, itemized by drone description
3) total minutes/seconds each pilot webbed sansha ships (specify what webber was used)
4) total min/sec each pilot cap transferred (specify what cap transfer module was used)
5) total min/sec each pilot provided shield transfer (specify what shield transfer module was used)
6) total armor HP each pilot repaired (specify what remote armor repair module was used)
7) total hull HP each pilot repaired (specify what remote hull repair module was used)
Pilots desperate for a fleet will lie, at least some will. I've seen ships show up in the fleet at the rally point only to have the FC point out that he had not extended an invite to anyone who advertised for a fleet position with that ship type, and by looking back in the chat and seeing the the posted fit for that pilot, it was not the ship they showed up in.
FCs are forced to accept applicants who have merely posted a desirous fit they have saved from someone else's chat post or take on the time consuming task of scanning each ship or delegating a trusted subordinate to do the scanning.
People show up in a BS advertised as having T2 turrets but really have medium t1 guns and are not even trained to fit large size turrets. This practice places the entire fleet in jeopard as the FC sets out to hunt Elephants and does not realize he has fleet members armed with BB guns.
Some fleet members just don't shoot to keep from drawing aggro and to save isk on ammo which places the burden on fewer pilots, raises the chance of fleet failure, and extends the length of the mission - but they get paid just as much.
How do I know this? I often have a ship scanner mounted when fleeting with some new fleet members.
Also - the fleet composition in the fleet window needs to show all pilots who are war targets. Many pilots do not disclose this information when asked which leads to finding it out when a logi is warned when attempting to rep while the entire fleet is under fire, thus risking the entire fleet.
How do I know this? I check out pilots I don't recognize when there is enough time while the fleet is forming and we have not gated yet. Checking like that is not always possible.
Thank you. |
DarthNefarius
101
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 18:33:00 -
[523] - Quote
Recoil Happens wrote: Some fleet members just don't shoot to keep from drawing aggro and to save isk on ammo which places the burden on fewer pilots, raises the chance of fleet failure, and extends the length of the mission - but they get paid just as much.
Thank you.
I've started randomly assigning drones to pilots in my fleets & if the drones are not doing jack I know they are dead weights. Ususally the reason why they are dead weight: DUAL BOXERING ( or once a guy told me his naked wife was distracting him :) To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally"
|
Rico Ramos
STARMINE inc Solaris Mortis
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 19:26:00 -
[524] - Quote
The Idea that "too many" people are participating and making "too much" money, and presumably having too much fun as well, is ridiculous, are you sure we want less people making money and having a good time? Seems like a poor business plan to me. This would cause to have no one doing Incursions at all. Do not reduce vanguard payouts there fine. (High Sec) Boost Scout, Assault and Headquarter payouts by 20 %. This would help people want to do them. Because the real reason no one does them is due to the huge effort and no reward for them. What I mean is I take a fleet to fight, and we win but more than half the fleet gets pop. What do they get? Nothing! No reward for their efforts so no one goes to them. Granted do we want to reward failure? I say no. But what people are saying is GÇ£Hey you guys are doing such a great job at completing vanguard sites; now we have nerf you as your reward!GÇ¥ ThatGÇÖs not fair. And speaking of fairness... Players choose to PvP. (while others get forced to by grievers). The ratio of those who choose to fight Incursions in losec seems a bit well low! They have more to worry about than the empire Incursion folks. So their payout needs to be increased. MOM (Mothership) timers I knew nothing about since I donGÇÖt do them! nüè No point unless you do something rewarding for peoples failed efforts. Even if you put in effect a battle field scheme, which I like. What I mean is Incursions comes in waves thru the constellation, over the course of a weekGÇÖs time. So starting at the ends of the constellation, with the first wave being Scout Incursions and working in order till you get to Headquarter Incursions. All the while working to envelope to whole constellation. With the Mothership deploying in a random spot within the constellation to be defeated. This would spread the sites evenly across all of the systems. I feel would cut down on the amount contested fights and grieving. As for shutting down the other sites when the mom shows up is whatever. As those players that donGÇÖt fight the Mothership will just move to the next site.
Internet Space Ships is Serious Business |
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
144
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 01:10:00 -
[525] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Recoil Happens wrote: Some fleet members just don't shoot to keep from drawing aggro and to save isk on ammo which places the burden on fewer pilots, raises the chance of fleet failure, and extends the length of the mission - but they get paid just as much.
Thank you.
I've started randomly assigning drones to pilots in my fleets & if the drones are not doing jack I know they are dead weights. Ususally the reason why they are dead weight: DUAL BOXING ( or once a guy told me his naked wife was distracting him :) I have no problem running 4 clients in incursions and keeping them all constantly shooting, you need better multiboxers :D |
DarthNefarius
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 06:33:00 -
[526] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Recoil Happens wrote: Some fleet members just don't shoot to keep from drawing aggro and to save isk on ammo which places the burden on fewer pilots, raises the chance of fleet failure, and extends the length of the mission - but they get paid just as much.
Thank you.
I've started randomly assigning drones to pilots in my fleets & if the drones are not doing jack I know they are dead weights. Ususally the reason why they are dead weight: DUAL BOXING ( or once a guy told me his naked wife was distracting him :) I have no problem running 4 clients in incursions and keeping them all constantly shooting, you need better multiboxers :D
lol guess so. To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally"
|
HARD STEEL
LOW TAX HIGH GLORY
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 13:39:00 -
[527] - Quote
Theres one variable missing
the incursions are about sansha snatching up people right? why not have a "people count" i.e
say there are 100,000,000,000 citizens in this system, the population grows at x per day. Sansha will come in when population is big enough for him and snatch until he loses too much of his force.. he wont come back until population is up again.
sure you can prolong it.. but then no more incursions until the population comes up again because theres no reason for sansha to waste the effort raiding a raided system because people dicked around in the defense effort |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
705
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 14:23:00 -
[528] - Quote
HARD STEEL wrote:the incursions are about sansha snatching up people right?
Actually by this point the RP for incursions is just Kuvakei being all "Trololol I am going to lose ships by the tens of thousands in badly planned incursions so capsuleers can get rich from CONCORD bounties! I sure showed the galaxy!"
Also, anything involving "people count" in Eve ends badly. If you think about it, between all the ratting, us capsuleers (numbering less than half a million at any time) have killed probably close to a trillion people so far with all our "ratting" and other such activities.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
DarthNefarius
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 17:28:00 -
[529] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:HARD STEEL wrote:the incursions are about sansha snatching up people right? Actually by this point the RP for incursions is just Kuvakei being all "Trololol I am going to lose ships by the tens of thousands in badly planned incursions so capsuleers can get rich from CONCORD bounties! I sure showed the galaxy!" Also, anything involving "people count" in Eve ends badly. If you think about it, between all the ratting, us capsuleers (numbering less than half a million at any time) have killed probably close to a trillion people so far with all our "ratting" and other such activities.
The funniest thing that the role playing 'people count' arguement falls flat is with the Damsel... how many times has that **** been saved & how many times has she gone back for more? "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - D. Adams |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 17:41:00 -
[530] - Quote
Not sure if I said this earlier in the thread, I talk in incursions one lost, but the 411 on my view.
I am one of the starting incursion runners. I ran the live events of 2009 to great zeal. Lead the 200+ man defence fleets. Unpredictable and awesome.
Incursions released, we did not no the mechanics yet or the npcs. Risky. General fleets took a while to clear sites, were awesome.
Now, people know the mechanics, have fleets exactly to clear the vanguards which overpay for the time it takes and also as such, the risk is gone
Changing the rewards is not the correct answer. Two things should be done to incursions to make them on balance as fun and non farming pve.
1. Spawn randomization. Somehow make what spawns be an attempt to counter the fleet. Homeworld 2 had this. The enemy would build to counter you if you focused on one ship combat type. Force a fleet to generalize, and make it unknown what the combat is, takes longer to clear the site, and is riskier. Don't know if the next spawn is going to be a mass wave of long range ship to pick off your gank pulse legions. Neut battleships to take out the ewar/web bhaalgorns? TD to mess up machariels? Get fleet diversity and proper FCing back.
2. Spawn rate changing. This one could even come first, and probably easier to implement. Match the spawn rate of sites to the level of system control regained. If at 100% it takes 20 minutes for a site to respawn, vanguard farming would be on par with any other pve. People would go to the more major sites where clear time would match the respawn time. Ergo, to get the isk, as you regain control, you gotta head into the tougher sites. Ideally, to get that last 100% make it so you need to start doing the 100%. Have each site type only give a portion of control back. Ie Vanguards only up to 65%, assaults to get 25%, hq for the last 10%.
Oh, and offgrid boosting. The incursion fleets rely on offgrid ganglink boosts from t3 to get the super tackles. Though that is a personal bug more than anything, I don't like offgrid boosting. |
|
DarthNefarius
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 17:58:00 -
[531] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: Changing the rewards is not the correct answer. Two things should be done to incursions to make them on balance as fun and non farming pve.
1. Spawn randomization. Somehow make what spawns be an attempt to counter the fleet. Homeworld 2 had this. The enemy would build to counter you if you focused on one ship combat type. Force a fleet to generalize, and make it unknown what the combat is, takes longer to clear the site, and is riskier. Don't know if the next spawn is going to be a mass wave of long range ship to pick off your gank pulse legions. Neut battleships to take out the ewar/web bhaalgorns? TD to mess up machariels? Get fleet diversity and proper FCing back. .
+1 this as I've said before: NERFING IS A CRAPPY BALANCING MECHANIC... its a lazy quick fix where better thought out content changes & fixes could go a long ways towards a more awesome game. BUFfing of the assaults sites & HQ sites rewards were you more often see ship deaths would help some but I'd like to see BUFING of the Vanguards difficulty ( in ways like described by the quoted poster ) instead of just the 10% cut of all bounties which seems to be CCP Soundwaves quick fix. If missions & belt rats could see more sleeper/Incursion AI rats popping up then IMHO we'd see alot less bots creating inflation. My idea would be to make the game more fun then a quick fix which doesn't add to the fun to the game "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - D. Adams |
DarthNefarius
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 18:51:00 -
[532] - Quote
reserved "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - D. Adams |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 20:38:00 -
[533] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Markus Reese wrote: Changing the rewards is not the correct answer. Two things should be done to incursions to make them on balance as fun and non farming pve.
1. Spawn randomization. Somehow make what spawns be an attempt to counter the fleet. Homeworld 2 had this. The enemy would build to counter you if you focused on one ship combat type. Force a fleet to generalize, and make it unknown what the combat is, takes longer to clear the site, and is riskier. Don't know if the next spawn is going to be a mass wave of long range ship to pick off your gank pulse legions. Neut battleships to take out the ewar/web bhaalgorns? TD to mess up machariels? Get fleet diversity and proper FCing back. .
+1 this as I've said before: NERFING IS A CRAPPY BALANCING MECHANIC... its a lazy quick fix where better thought out content changes & fixes could go a long ways towards a more awesome game. BUFfing of the assaults sites & HQ sites rewards were you more often see ship deaths would help some but I'd like to see BUFING of the Vanguards difficulty ( in ways like described by the quoted poster ) instead of just the 10% cut of all bounties which seems to be CCP Soundwaves quick fix. If missions & belt rats could see more sleeper/Incursion AI rats popping up then IMHO we'd see alot less bots creating inflation. My idea would be to make the game more fun then a quick fix which doesn't add to the fun to the game Sometimes nerfing is necessary. If the only solution for incursions is buffing the aspects that seem underwhelming we will just end up at a place where the entire incursion feature is as imbalanced income wise as VG's are now. In all reality the payout structure shouldn't have people idling in the 2nd lowest type of site. People who are familiar with incursions should want to move to assaults and HQ's while leaving VG's to less experienced people wanting to get in and be paid decently while learning the ropes.
Changing spawns and even partial randomization is a good idea in the short run, but people will adapt and find ways to achieve similar if not the same levels of efficiency. Not that I'm against this, it probably still needs to happen. VG's need nerfed and the higher sites need buffed slightly. Blitzing needs to be done away with as well. This may be able to be accomplished by having the ships in sites that would normally warp off after the objective is complete remain.
Also a note from personal experience; I've never seen an incursion with any sansha influence remaining. In only a few hours of being spawned one of the major factors that is supposed to add difficulty, the DPS and resist penalties, are completely gone leaving people to farm with their full capabilities. The fact that influence could be gained so quickly after the adjustment that was done led to me being totally unable to participate in incursions during the time shortly after that tweak. the MS was being spawned and killed entirely too fast and this is what led to the farming agreements which have formed and exasperated the issues of incursion earnings. Influence regain needs to be nerfed well below current levels and probably needs to be closer to the original levels and in the case of farming at full influence, there may even need to be a permanent penalty on ship performance so long as the incursion is present regardless of influence level. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
110
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:58:00 -
[534] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Markus Reese] Changing the rewards is not the correct answer. Two things should be done to incursions to make them on balance as fun and non farming pve.
Sometimes nerfing is necessary. If the only solution for incursions is buffing the aspects that seem underwhelming we will just end up at a place where the entire incursion feature is as imbalanced income wise as VG's are now.
I disagree in that the propper buff to the Vanguards NPC's would reduce the ISK/hour the shiney blitz OTA or NCO fleets would be able to rake in. The 2-3 minute clicks would be increased to the equivalent times to do a NMC. NMC's seem to be the only Vanguard site that can't really be blitzed And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
123
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 04:04:00 -
[535] - Quote
How about fixing the ******* Nation Consolidation Network assault site or just taking them out of the game totally? nothing kills an assault fleet like piece of shite Nation Consolidation Network sites. They take longer then all the HQ sites ( including the Kundalini manifest ) on average. Take out 1 of the rooms and double the reward at least I try to do them but they suck so bad all too often peeps in fleets would rather do level 3 mission sites then do these lame ass sites. What other PvE in all of EVE requires you to split up a fleet in all of EVE, HUH?!?! they were an experiment that died in flames take them out of assault systems please! And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 05:25:00 -
[536] - Quote
As it stands, I can see how the heavily optimized NCO runners can give an incorrect view of Incursion runner income. Frankly, you can get really huge payouts with a properly filled fleet because you can chew through the spawns so fast. As a suggestion, make the frigs in NCOs either spawn another wave (or 2)or maybe some additional rats with much larger tanks. Something similar with the OTAs (not much experience with them though).
Essentially, rather than a flat nerf to payouts, or more risk (which punishes new pilots the most!) make them take more time, so they fall in more with NMCs, or whatever goal for income/hr you think is needed (not a huge reduction but something more even imo).
Also, to reduce competition in VGs more, make the HQ and Assault payouts ISK/hr more than VGS by at least 10%. Frankly right now there is no reason to do them -much more risk, less reward, and HUGE headaches for FCs and anyone interested in doing larger fleet engagments in a PVE setting. Also the rewards for scout systems need to be looked at too, as I have never seen anyone do one
And you know,... fix NCNS, they really are that bad. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 06:03:00 -
[537] - Quote
Cobalt Rookits wrote: As it stands, I can see how the heavily optimized NCO runners can give an incorrect view of Incursion runner income. Frankly, you can get really huge payouts with a properly filled fleet because you can chew through the spawns so fast. As a suggestion, make the frigs in NCOs either spawn another wave (or 2)or maybe some additional rats with much larger tanks. Something similar with the OTAs (not much experience with them though).
Essentially, rather than a flat nerf to payouts, or more risk (which punishes new pilots the most!) make them take more time, so they fall in more with NMCs, or whatever goal for income/hr you think is needed (not a huge reduction but something more even imo).
Also, to reduce competition in VGs more, make the HQ and Assault payouts ISK/hr more than VGS by at least 10%. Frankly right now there is no reason to do them -much more risk, less reward, and HUGE headaches for FCs and anyone interested in doing larger fleet engagments in a PVE setting. Also the rewards for scout systems need to be looked at too, as I have never seen anyone do one
And you know,... fix NCNS, they really are that bad.
OTAs are almost just as bad TBH a shield fleet can easily do them under 4 minutes anymore ( maybe closer to 3? ) NCO's are done in 2.5 to 3 minutes if not sooner. NCN's suck and always did its depressing how many timeshave you tried to fix them & got barely anywhere? At least the OTA's got fixed... time for assaults to get some love An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
ReptilesBlade
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 06:18:00 -
[538] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed.
This was the best one I saw. Do this.
I run incursions almost exclusively these days. Most of them VGs. I could live with something like this with maybe a slight LP payout boost.
If the payout went down more than 15-20% I would consider quitting Eve because Incursions and the new friends I have made running them are the only things keeping me playing this game right now. |
Otebski
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 07:23:00 -
[539] - Quote
A lot of ppl covered balancing isk and sansha. I have one wish.
Remove please the **** hue filter from incursion systems. It looks horrible. If you need some visual representations add fires to plants, WHs appearing in space, Concord convoys around stations in high sec.. Whatever. Just please remove the **** hue.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
127
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 19:48:00 -
[540] - Quote
Otebski wrote:A lot of ppl covered balancing isk and sansha. I have one wish.
Remove please the **** hue filter from incursion systems. It looks horrible. If you need some visual representations add fires to plants, WHs appearing in space, Concord convoys around stations in high sec.. Whatever. Just please remove the **** hue.
Concord CONVOYs being attacked by Sansha & burning planets with multiple WH's to SANSHA NPC space would be a cool idea +1 An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
|
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
97
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 21:36:00 -
[541] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Otebski wrote:A lot of ppl covered balancing isk and sansha. I have one wish.
Remove please the **** hue filter from incursion systems. It looks horrible. If you need some visual representations add fires to plants, WHs appearing in space, Concord convoys around stations in high sec.. Whatever. Just please remove the **** hue.
Concord CONVOYs being attacked by Sansha & burning planets with multiple WH's to SANSHA NPC space would be a cool idea +1
This would be very cool. However I think any change to this would probably have to wait until the V3 upgrades are done. The ability to do proper lighting effects would really be the only way to have that same sort of system under assault effect.
ReptilesBlade wrote:I run incursions almost exclusively these days. Most of them VGs. I could live with something like this with maybe a slight LP payout boost.
If the payout went down more than 15-20% I would consider quitting Eve because Incursions and the new friends I have made running them are the only things keeping me playing this game right now.
Hence, increase challenge instead of reducing payout. I don't know about more people, but I find variety alot more enjoyable than farming. Farming for low isk is still farming. Same isk per hour, but with an unknown challenge that takes a bit more is really the way to go. I have been calling for it for, well, since last spring. Almost a year. |
ReptilesBlade
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 06:12:00 -
[542] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Otebski wrote:A lot of ppl covered balancing isk and sansha. I have one wish.
Remove please the **** hue filter from incursion systems. It looks horrible. If you need some visual representations add fires to plants, WHs appearing in space, Concord convoys around stations in high sec.. Whatever. Just please remove the **** hue.
Concord CONVOYs being attacked by Sansha & burning planets with multiple WH's to SANSHA NPC space would be a cool idea +1 This would be very cool. However I think any change to this would probably have to wait until the V3 upgrades are done. The ability to do proper lighting effects would really be the only way to have that same sort of system under assault effect. ReptilesBlade wrote:I run incursions almost exclusively these days. Most of them VGs. I could live with something like this with maybe a slight LP payout boost.
If the payout went down more than 15-20% I would consider quitting Eve because Incursions and the new friends I have made running them are the only things keeping me playing this game right now. Hence, increase challenge instead of reducing payout. I don't know about more people, but I find variety alot more enjoyable than farming. Farming for low isk is still farming. Same isk per hour, but with an unknown challenge that takes a bit more is really the way to go. I have been calling for it for, well, since last spring. Almost a year.
I could live with slightly increased difficulty and be happy with that as well. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
133
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 19:12:00 -
[543] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: Hence, increase challenge instead of reducing payout. I don't know about more people, but I find variety alot more enjoyable than farming. Farming for low isk is still farming. Same isk per hour, but with an unknown challenge that takes a bit more is really the way to go. I have been calling for it for, well, since last spring. Almost a year.
CCP HAS A HISTORY of leaving things unfinished. I guess Eve is meant to be open ended & "unfinished" but it doesn't mean the open ended content should be ignored some polishing would easily give old things more shine. CCP did that with faction warfare & now after a few years its getting some love again. I hope CCP sees letting the PvE content stagnate is a mistake & wraps up the Sansha Incursion ( PLEASE PLEASE GIVE US A SANSHA TITAN TO FIGHT IN AMARR ) And a new pirate or jovian or sleeper Incursion 'iterates' An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Fractal Muse
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 19:38:00 -
[544] - Quote
Changes that I'd like to see in Incursions after having run them for a little while:
- Make them mean something
It's nice that incursions have been happening but they haven't actually... done anything. I like that the sansha are stupid and stubborn enough to continue to waste energy / ISK / and time on brutally failed attempts to invade but, seriously, something needs to change.
- Increase the risk factor to equal the payout
In all of the vanguard incursion sites I ran I only experienced one ship loss. I suspect, although I'm not certain, that a newly replaced logi pilot was AFKing or simply not repping. The funny thing is, we lost a ship, and still had no problems finishing up the site. This wasn't even a 'shiny' fleet or anything. Sites are too easy for what we get out of them. Either make vanguards stronger - requiring really expensive ships with a lot of SP invested into them (including logis so no more logi 4s) or reduce their payouts.
- Introduce randomness to incursion sites
Part of the reason sites are so easy is because they are constantly the same. Anyone can go to a website that has "Fleet Command" instructions and literally put together a pick-up group of strangers and successfully run vanguards. That's crazy to me. Even other MMOs weren't that easy to raid at first. Now they are and for those random stranger groups they give out less rewards than the standard run. EVE should follow that.
That's my quick list.
Just to expand on the first point because that's the issue that bothers me the most: Incursions feel to me as if they were going to be some sort of introduction to a new element of EVE online - a move towards greater rewards for working together in the game other than PvP and sovereignty. I thought it was a great first step but, now, it's just continuing as it is. As it is, it is too easy and too predictable.
People running incursions aren't thinking or really paying much attention. Someone can FC an incursion simply by opening up a website in the background and following it word for word. That's wrong at so many levels for the reward generated.
I would like to see the sansha give up or pull out or rethink their effort. It makes no sense to continue to do the same thing over and over and over and failing so bad for such a protracted length of time. I would love to see incursions iterate with each "expansion" so that every six months or so people actually have to learn how to run them again. This learning phase would likely last a month or two and then the incursions would be "farmed" as they are now.
If rewards scale downwards with the number of successful completions then those who try to learn incursions will be greatly rewarded whereby those who wait until the learning phase is over and jump onto the bandwagon will find that their rewards are roughly equivalent to something like Level 4 mission running. I think that's a fair ISK / hour mark for something that is being farmed with very little risk.
The larger incursion sites should pay out a little more and could do with some more complexity in how they react. They are still fairly easy to do and I regularly see fleets with a lot of badly fit ships and low skill pilots. I don't mind that, in fact, I like it a lot, but the payout needs to be lower since the risk is much lower as well.
Please, at the very least, change up incursions every six months to interrupt the 'farming' of them. Once anything reaches a farm mode then it's time for a change or time to introduce something better while reducing the efficiency of the ISK per hour. |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:20:00 -
[545] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Markus Reese wrote: Hence, increase challenge instead of reducing payout. I don't know about more people, but I find variety alot more enjoyable than farming. Farming for low isk is still farming. Same isk per hour, but with an unknown challenge that takes a bit more is really the way to go. I have been calling for it for, well, since last spring. Almost a year.
CCP HAS A HISTORY of leaving things unfinished. I guess Eve is meant to be open ended & "unfinished" but it doesn't mean the open ended content should be ignored some polishing would easily give old things more shine. CCP did that with faction warfare & now after a few years its getting some love again. I hope CCP sees letting the PvE content stagnate is a mistake & wraps up the Sansha Incursion ( PLEASE PLEASE GIVE US A SANSHA TITAN TO FIGHT IN AMARR ) And a new pirate or jovian or sleeper Incursion 'iterates'
or it could mean, CCP is too busy with other things, so they decide to make war escalation between players a priority. for 1 they do not need to create "new" content, because now players become the content itself and never runs out until every1 unsubs. everyone gets sooo busy with each other, it becomes a misdirection? *shakes head*
bad move CCP, cmon .... is that all you want subbers to get? WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:48:00 -
[546] - Quote
this was the idea i suggested many strip mining cycles ago ... (with some edits)
1) rework sizes for max number of pilots in a fleet VG - 8 AS - 14 HQ - 28 MOM- 50
why? smaller fleet sizes = faster fleet forming, improves the waiting time to play time. subscribers like more play time and not wait time. however this will increase the difficulty of a site run. sansha reppers now repair at 10% of their original capacity.
2) contesting site isk/LP should be shared according to total damage % dealt into site. this will help lower skilled fleets to enjoy the game instead of being constantly run over by fleets oversized with highly skilled DPS. is this a nerf to elite fleets? i do not see it that way, on the other hand, by doing so, a fleet will know how much more/less dps they did in a contest.
will this introduce more poorly skilled players into incursions? fact--> we are all poorly skilled once, it is up to the FC to select and form his fleet and sort out who he should have on his team. if he chooses a lesser skilled to run with, the fleet will have to live with it or hop to other fleets. fact --> with a smaller fleet size due to point 1. most private fleets will not have a problem as their key is to run with familiar and trusted pilots.
3) with down sizing of fleet size, total sansha DPS output dealt to playerbase should decrease accordingly to ensure playability of sites
VG - -10% sansha total dps AS - -15% sansha total dps HQ - -20% sansha total dps MOM- -25% sansha total dps
4) with reduced DPS, ALL sites should introduce an extra special spawn that must be destroyed for site completion. new spawn introduced i will suggest be triggered after 2nd last site trigger is in effect.
the spawn will consist of 1xsmartbomb armed sansha cruiser (SB strength = 2.5x of a T2 medium SB @ 25km radius effect going at a 10 second interval), 1xsensordampener armed frig, that can target 2 simultaneous targets to cause 500% t2 scripted sensor dampening effect @ 15s interval range of 50km, 1xremoteshieldrep armed cruiser that will effect 500% remote rep capabilities of a med T2 remote shield rep on 1 target @ 15s interval. this spawn is a unique grp and will move in a formation no further than 5km from each other.
this spawns per sites:
VG - 1 spawn AS - 2 spawns HQ - 3 spawns MOM- 4 spawns
yes the repping capability might prove to be a challenge for beyond VG sites, and it is this therefore that will "prove" as a checking "trigger" of the minimum amount of dps a fleet should have and therefore the rep % should be tweaked according to real fleets nominal dps, the 500% i have suggested is an arbituary value it could be 1000% or 200% for all i know.
5) most of the above seem like more of a debuff to sansha spawns, therefore i will like to suggest all sansha spawns recieve their own combat booster/buffing BS hulled ship (non attacking passive entity) that will do the following non stacking bonuses: VG - +200% shield HP AS - +120% shield HP HQ - +80% shield HP MOM- +50% shield HP this combat booster ship should be rendered invulnerable with shield resistances of 99%. and EHP +1000% of normal sansha spawn. it may be plausible that this unit will become prime target in mom/HQ fleets.
with the increased HP, the role of the sansha remote repping ships should now be nerfed to only rep @ 10% capacity.
6) with the increased overall EHP of sansha + extra spawn. it is only natural that the site will now take ALOT MORE time to complete than usual. and therefore it is only logical that bounties of ISK/LP increase, and by that i would mean
100% of bounties across VG 110% for AS sites 120% increase for HQ site 150% increase for MOM site.
MOM site no longer drops loot. but all MOM site pilot now recieve a tradable special insignia token that can be exchanged for special concord named items (that could be the random loot from the SC + some insane amt of LP?). CCP may choose to make this item seasonal?
7) reconfiguration of a incursion cluster
each incursion spawn should now be as follows VG - 80 sites (spread over 10 to 12 systems) AS - 12 sites (spread over 5 systems) HQ - 6 sites (spread over 3 systems) MOM- 2-3 sites (spread over 2 systems) CCP may choose to add 1 TITAN site?
and there is now only 1 hisec site, 1 losec, 1 nullsec. and each site can spawn over 3-5 adjoining constellations instead of 1.
50% of all initial spawned VG must be destoyed at least once to spawn AS sites, or wait 5days for AS auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned AS must be destoyed at least once to spawn HQ sites, or wait 7 days for HQ auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned HQ must be destoyed at least once to spawn MOM sites, or wait 9 days for MOM auto spawn. when MOM sites spawn, constellation wide all stargate, stations and VG/AS/HQ site-warpgates will be harrassed by a splash of 5-10 orkashu myelens, they do nothing but harrass players (and concord) with ecm. server restarts will spawn the rats if they are destroyed. players will now see concord and sansha random spawns fighting on each other over warp gates
all MOM sites must be destroyed to end the incursion and trigger LP payout. and MOM sites withdrawal time is set to countdown in 9 days. which means an entire incursion spawn will last maximum 18 full days.
when MOM site spawns, VG sites will reduce spawn rate to up to 40 sites instead of 80, AS and HQ sites will despawn.
with the reduced fleet sized groupings, it is hoped to encourage more pilots to try AS/HQ sites.
with the increased number of pilots going into incursions, it is only logical that sansha now sends in more troops to occupy "our" space.
the above changes is hoped to encourage, a more focused fleet activity rather than just bulldozing thru sites. overall i would say difficulty of sites is increased. while survivability of sites is also up.
any thoughts any 1 ?
WUT ??? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
434
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:49:00 -
[547] - Quote
Add some PVP content to highsec incursions. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
100
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:49:00 -
[548] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Add some PVP content to highsec incursions. Such as? |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:54:00 -
[549] - Quote
additional
all incursion sites spawn at the edge of the solar system WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:55:00 -
[550] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Add some PVP content to highsec incursions.
goto losec/null incursion space ? it will definately be pawnographic :p WUT ??? |
|
YuuKnow
The Long Kiss Goodnight
178
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 09:41:00 -
[551] - Quote
I vote to leave things are they are now.
yk |
The Pteradactyl
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 10:01:00 -
[552] - Quote
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec
Incursions should be low sec only. |
baltec1
1040
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 10:04:00 -
[553] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Add some PVP content to highsec incursions. Such as?
Sansha allies can attack anyone killing an incursion freely? |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
153
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 10:09:00 -
[554] - Quote
Make them like they are in 0.0....mean as ****
Get a few carebears being ganked by NPC rats at gates and let the tear flood begin!
I know I cried a little, mostly from embarrassment, when I had my sphincter ripped in half trying to get through an incursion constellation in my cane and watched it melt in mere seconds...by red pluses of all things!!!
I think more hisec players should benefit from this character growing experience. |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 15:08:00 -
[555] - Quote
Fractal Muse wrote:Changes that I'd like to see in Incursions after having run them for a little while:
- Make them mean something
It's nice that incursions have been happening but they haven't actually... done anything. I like that the sansha are stupid and stubborn enough to continue to waste energy / ISK / and time on brutally failed attempts to invade but, seriously, something needs to change.
- Increase the risk factor to equal the payout
In all of the vanguard incursion sites I ran I only experienced one ship loss. I suspect, although I'm not certain, that a newly replaced logi pilot was AFKing or simply not repping. The funny thing is, we lost a ship, and still had no problems finishing up the site. This wasn't even a 'shiny' fleet or anything. Sites are too easy for what we get out of them. Either make vanguards stronger - requiring really expensive ships with a lot of SP invested into them (including logis so no more logi 4s) or reduce their payouts.
- Introduce randomness to incursion sites
Part of the reason sites are so easy is because they are constantly the same. Anyone can go to a website that has "Fleet Command" instructions and literally put together a pick-up group of strangers and successfully run vanguards. That's crazy to me. Even other MMOs weren't that easy to raid at first. Now they are and for those random stranger groups they give out less rewards than the standard run. EVE should follow that.
That's my quick list. Just to expand on the first point because that's the issue that bothers me the most: Incursions feel to me as if they were going to be some sort of introduction to a new element of EVE online - a move towards greater rewards for working together in the game other than PvP and sovereignty. I thought it was a great first step but, now, it's just continuing as it is. As it is, it is too easy and too predictable. People running incursions aren't thinking or really paying much attention. Someone can FC an incursion simply by opening up a website in the background and following it word for word. That's wrong at so many levels for the reward generated. I would like to see the sansha give up or pull out or rethink their effort. It makes no sense to continue to do the same thing over and over and over and failing so bad for such a protracted length of time. I would love to see incursions iterate with each "expansion" so that every six months or so people actually have to learn how to run them again. This learning phase would likely last a month or two and then the incursions would be "farmed" as they are now. If rewards scale downwards with the number of successful completions then those who try to learn incursions will be greatly rewarded whereby those who wait until the learning phase is over and jump onto the bandwagon will find that their rewards are roughly equivalent to something like Level 4 mission running. I think that's a fair ISK / hour mark for something that is being farmed with very little risk. The larger incursion sites should pay out a little more and could do with some more complexity in how they react. They are still fairly easy to do and I regularly see fleets with a lot of badly fit ships and low skill pilots. I don't mind that, in fact, I like it a lot, but the payout needs to be lower since the risk is much lower as well. Please, at the very least, change up incursions every six months to interrupt the 'farming' of them. Once anything reaches a farm mode then it's time for a change or time to introduce something better while reducing the efficiency of the ISK per hour.
i really like your ideas ... i hope CCp take your ideas n also some of my ideas ... WUT ??? |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 15:18:00 -
[556] - Quote
I think it's fine the way it is. |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 15:21:00 -
[557] - Quote
some partial requotes from above Make them mean something CCP did get some people to write scifi stories, but everything does not tie up in game. and i do not think the stories are very well ... plotted out for a game ...
Increase the risk factor to equal the payout i have quite alot o fideas on this, but i think right now CCP have a big problem with inferno ... (now now how wud i know this? hahaha)
Introduce randomness to incursion sites i do not think CCP have a random engine for PVE or that or they are trying to make incursion boring so that IT does not become the centre of attraction of the game. they want us to look at inferno ....
so IMO it has come to this, most roll out i have seen are always incomplete, and always in need of numerous bug fixes, etc. and before things get done well, the next roll out gets on the train tracks and over rides all previous fixes priorities ...
which is = a very bad work flow for programmers in CCP.
it is 1 thing to keep your programmer occupied, and it is another thing to do each roll out right CCP.
cmon u guys, you have a internal war on your hands created by yourself, surely you can do better to grab the attention of more subbers? there is Sooooo much space in EVE for more players ... WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 15:52:00 -
[558] - Quote
in addition to post #544
if an incursion spawn (total of 100 sites fully spawned after 9 days) is not being countered by player based forces by the 14th day (at least 80% of sites must be attacked/overrun succesfully, there should therefore be a "meter" to show how many of the 100 sites have been over run by players).
a full spawn of OTA+NCO will appear 250km off every system warp/star gate, a full spawn of assault will appear 250km off every NPC station, 3 random roaming HQ sansha fleet will spawn on the 15th day and randomly warp about planetary customs offices and start destroying them, they will also randomly destroy concord gate guns, station guns, etc. the spawn will have a initial targetting delay of 120seconds (or otherwise player aggressed).
if players/NPC are aggressed by sansha in hisec, concord will spawn a 10 ship fleet to randomly combat the sansha (the concord spawn will ultimately die, CCP will need to tweak the spawn to ensure this).
when the random HQ fleet spawns, the system star is the only safe warp to spot to avoid the random HQ attacks.
on the 18th day if player intervention does not qualify to defeat the sansha system incursion. all player and NPC structures will be destroyed. (this includes outposts constructed by players ! hahahaha hows this for a game changing mechanic?)
3 days after the complete decimation, NPC structures will respawn
players will need to rebuild their shxt. CCP may choose to allow concord insurance reimbursement for these ...
how this for some extension?
some times it kinda pains me that players have to give CCP ideas instead of just play a well scripted game LOL
WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
99
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 23:06:00 -
[559] - Quote
addition
on 19th day sansha starts to systematically decimate systems
progress bar in each system will show a queue which system sansha has prioritized to decimate.
sansha will progress to decimate 2 systems per day. untill entire incursion cluster is destroyed by them ...
i wonder, have i added too much? lol WUT ??? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 01:49:00 -
[560] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Make them like they are in 0.0....mean as ****
Get a few carebears being ganked by NPC rats at gates and let the tear flood begin!
I know I cried a little, mostly from embarrassment, when I had my sphincter ripped in half trying to get through an incursion constellation in my cane and watched it melt in mere seconds...by red pluses of all things!!!
I think more hisec players should benefit from this character growing experience.
Sansha gate camps in HI sec would be great +1 An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
|
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 03:14:00 -
[561] - Quote
I propose a new feature that automatically purchases the most recent grade clone the player had previously purchased when they get podded. This would reduce one of the more tedious and unnecessary aspects of pvp and remove something that is somewhat unnecessarily punishing. This feature could be toggled on or off as an option. The current clone pricing structure could remain the same or even be increased to reflect a premium cloning service.
Essentially, when someone with a Beta clone gets podded they automatically revive in whatever appropriate station with a new Beta level clone and the cost of the new Beta clone is automatically deducted from the player's wallet.
This would be a small but significant quality of life improvement to help ease the sting of defeat and get the immortal pod jockey back to the action sooner rather than later.
Thank you for your consideration. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
144
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 20:23:00 -
[562] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28587 seems to be a more quick fix bandaide. The 10% nerf to Vanguard payouts looks striaght outa CCP Soundwaves' Ten Ton Hammer interview. Expect on either the 24th or a little later when drone bounties ISK faucet DWARF incursion payouts ALL BOUNTIES will see a 10% across the board reduction as Hyperinflation really takes a bite... Interesting times indeed An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
144
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 20:49:00 -
[563] - Quote
OK CCP announced the nerf parts o Escalation in a DEV blog what about the part where Assaults are going to be sped up: http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/ According to this Assaults will be sped up... Only way I see them speeding up assaults is to cut NCNs or to remove a room rom the NCNs. As it is NCN's stacking are the death of near 100% assault fleets anymore. I can't keep a leet going because they take longer to finish then HQ's and almost pay 1/2 An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
144
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 22:02:00 -
[564] - Quote
If I read the following correctly http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28587 the Incursion nerf will be a 10% Vanguard ISK reduction and a spawning change. I predict the spawning change if/when done in/correctly is going to cause OTA's to stack up again like the NCN's stack in Assault systems. Appears to me the shield fleet doctorine is REALLY going to take a hit in the redisgned Vanguard sites if what I fear is true An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
164
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 07:13:00 -
[565] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:If I read the following correctly http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28587 the Incursion nerf will be a 10% Vanguard ISK reduction and a spawning change. I predict the spawning change if/when done in/correctly is going to cause OTA's to stack up again like the NCN's stack in Assault systems. Appears to me the shield fleet doctorine is REALLY going to take a hit in the redisgned Vanguard sites if what I fear is true
lol looks at all the OTA's stacking up... they are becomming almost as numerous as the effed up NCN's in assault systems have always been To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 07:25:00 -
[566] - Quote
Assaults seem pretty broken at the moment. The amount of rats you need to kill makes them take forever :( |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
818
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 08:19:00 -
[567] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned. 100% this. Remove all ISK payouts for incursion rats, bump up LP significantly. No ISK is created and the LP can then be spent to make cash the normal way. Once the Mom is in play, all sites stop spawning.
I like my idea better. Once the mom has spawned, she will start randomly hot dropping incursion runners till they go to her site and deal with her. More boom.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
818
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 08:20:00 -
[568] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Assaults seem pretty broken at the moment. The amount of rats you need to kill makes them take forever :(
Try some of the other sites then.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Dethl0k
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 09:17:00 -
[569] - Quote
Well there was nothing wrong with incursions the problem was people was actually playin the game for a change and when you have more people stuff is more expensive. VG's are a ghost town now watch your subscriptions decline |
Jokelerie
Delta vane Corp. Nostradamus Effect
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:09:00 -
[570] - Quote
Until today, I have never had a problem finding an incursion fleet.
From what I am seeing the incursion "balancing" seems to have gone too far in the other direction. Running VGs (I'm not familiar with how the changes have affected assaults) seems like it is no longer a step up from missioning.
Running missions I can earn about 60-70mil per hour (not 100% sure after the minerals / meta 0 nerf) in a mediocre Dominix fit. The ship probably costs around 250m. This requires no teamwork, and is very predictable.
Running incursions now, it seems I have to find a group with the right composition (I like this). Even with decked out faction/officer fit ships in a fleet of 10, incursions seem like they can only generate 80m per hour assuming everything goes perfectly. This work requires a significantly more expensive ship (2 bil ish), requires coordinating a fleet of 10-12 including wait lists to keep the isk/hr. The risk of loss is higher in incursions than mission running, and the takes are almost 10x higher.
I hope this is only because we are adjusting to the new changes, but fear players will stop running incursions as the rewards are below the risk/complexity.
In my opinion EITHER the reward drop OR the rise in difficulty OR requiring all ships to die are somewhat acceptable, but not all three.
Personally I'd prefer the incursions weren't just "now you gotta kill em all instead of being strategic" but "now they shoot harder/think better". As a logi I was, all to often, doing virtually nothing in VGs.
Random spawns are nice, harder hitting ships, maybe even enemy ships that boost each other (forcing an incursion FC to have to switch targets to booster ships, or the ship being boosted ... keep the FC awake). |
|
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:14:00 -
[571] - Quote
35 mins and we never finished a OTA, use to do them in 3 mins, back to mining, oh wait Hulkageddon - note to self dont plex your account to far ahead in case you need to find something else to do for a while. |
Drake McCann
Tributum Fraudisque
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:35:00 -
[572] - Quote
Either remove Maro Paolo (whatever his name is) or decrease his orbiting range to something like 20-25km .. in VG sites 99% of the time we are all using short range guns, but with Maro orbiting at 60km we simply can't finish his sites ..
ISK wise from VGs after the escalation .. for me at least, it went from 90-120m per hour to 30m-50m per hour, we are better off running lv4s .. |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:52:00 -
[573] - Quote
Incursion's are much better now just need something to force you to kill the mom earlier. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
649
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 11:56:00 -
[574] - Quote
Great step in right direction, now remove them from hisec. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Barakkus
1530
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 14:41:00 -
[575] - Quote
Good job over-nerfing \o/ http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:14:00 -
[576] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Assaults seem pretty broken at the moment. The amount of rats you need to kill makes them take forever :(
Assaults NCN's have pretty much ALWAYs been broken: First they were IMPOSSIBLE death traps because logi couldn't go on the Battleship side, then they were broken because they took as long as a HQ site to do plus set up a fleet . Right now I've only been able to convince a fleet to do 1 NCN & after 1/2 the logi left because it was boring I guess. Not sure yet if the new NCN's take any less time. ( the OCF's & NCS's take longer ) To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:43:00 -
[577] - Quote
Devs, may I direct your atention to this post
This is a great idea and should be implemented for many reasons. If you wish to discuss more, please contact me.
Basically, your f'd up incursions for everyone, but lowsec more so. Lowsec is risky, and it takes massive amounts of organization to do them. By nerfing lowsec incursions to oblivion, you essentially removed a part of the game that was enjoyable. Everyone is going back to level 4's and mining. Is this what you wanted? PS - hisec needs to be nerfed MORE not less.
Also, nice lie here: http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/
Quote:Incursion Iteration The rewards and challenges of Sansha invasion fleets in Incursion content have been revisited to better balance challenge and reward. Vanguard invasions will now take a bit longer, while the time to complete an Assault invasions will be reduced some. In addition, the ISK reward of Vanguard invasions has been changed to bring the reward in line with the difficulty/risk.
If you don't know what you're doing while testing, get more help from players. If you think over-nerfing and then 'fixing' the issue later is a proper way to deploy a patch, you are completely wrong. All you do is anger the playerbase.
tldr; lowsec incursions are worthless now. Way to waste your developer's time, CCP. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:45:00 -
[578] - Quote
we ran incursion last night and made 150m/hr, change was great, way to go CCP |
Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:45:00 -
[579] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:we ran incursion last night and made 150m/hr, change was great, way to go CCP
no you didn't. |
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:35:00 -
[580] - Quote
Trinity Six wrote:Apolyon I wrote:we ran incursion last night and made 150m/hr, change was great, way to go CCP no you didn't.
If you knew anything you'd recognize his corp and know what he is talking about. But you're too busy living in HS. |
|
Trinity Six
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 21:16:00 -
[581] - Quote
Joran Jackson wrote:Trinity Six wrote:Apolyon I wrote:we ran incursion last night and made 150m/hr, change was great, way to go CCP no you didn't. If you knew anything you'd recognize his corp and know what he is talking about. But you're too busy living in HS. I'm a lowsec incursioner. |
Draeven
Dead poets society The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 22:03:00 -
[582] - Quote
150/hour is actually low for the incursion he's talking about, must be a slow night. Magnetar system, you can pretty much make bank. |
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers Dark Taboo
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:28:00 -
[583] - Quote
Very much overnerfed. OTAs stack up like nothing else cause no one wants to run then. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
654
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:51:00 -
[584] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:Very much overnerfed. OTAs stack up like nothing else cause no one wants to run then. Moar nerfs moarrrrrrrrrr http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 09:47:00 -
[585] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:Very much overnerfed. OTAs stack up like nothing else cause no one wants to run then.
OTA's have become the NCN's of Vanguards again CCP its like everytime you reinvent the wheel its a non circular square that throws the rider over the handle bars under a bus ( just like the Anom NERF ) To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 09:54:00 -
[586] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:we ran incursion last night and made 150m/hr, change was great, way to go CCP
CCP probably believes this sorta crap. Well w/e looks like the once successul gouup PvE experiment got thrown under the bus because of CCP's listening to forum trolls.. looking like many are moving back to solo L4's because of the Incursion NERF & CCP incompetence. Maybe in 2-3 years it'll get revisited like faction warfare To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
633
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 10:40:00 -
[587] - Quote
I smell much butthurt of a nerf far inferior to ones handed out to areas that actually SHOULD make good isk(*coughcoughsanctumnerfcough*)
Sounds like you still making plenty of isk, given that ratting in a carrier nets roughly 20 mil isk ticks, and when you get down to it there shouldn't be anything much more effective that the drone swarms a carrier vomits forth. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1158
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:27:00 -
[588] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Moons are finally changing how you get raw materials from (ring mining), to be implemented soon (?)
High sec Incursions and effort are 2 words not meant to work together. If you really want to know what it looks like "effort" for incursions go clean some in low/null sec, then come here post your comments.
Quote:Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
An incompetent FC and incompetent pilots would OBVIOUSLY not target the falcon and get it down.
Quote:Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
Just increase payouts and take all loot from wrecks, let them loot 0, nada, peanuts !! |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:47:00 -
[589] - Quote
Very effective nerf , I no longer have any intrest in this feature of the game. Ive given it a couple days, and incursioning isnt worth my time now. Thanks CCP for ruining yet another feature of the game that I enjoyed. |
c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:55:00 -
[590] - Quote
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Very effective nerf , I no longer have any intrest in this feature of the game. Ive given it a couple days, and incursioning isnt worth my time now. Thanks CCP for ruining yet another feature of the game that I enjoyed.
Nuclear butthurt detected. |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
165
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 09:36:00 -
[591] - Quote
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Very effective nerf , I no longer have any intrest in this feature of the game. Ive given it a couple days, and incursioning isnt worth my time now. Thanks CCP for ruining yet another feature of the game that I enjoyed.
CCP is very effective in ruining anything they pay attention to in Eve... since they haven't done jack shite in W-Space for Escalation or Inferno I guess I should go there since its being ignored. Nahhhh after being able to be actually sociable in an MMO with Incursions movin' to a wormhole sounds like living under a rock. Maybe its just time t take another Eve break since summer is comming around. To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
saltrock0000
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
49
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 10:05:00 -
[592] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Very effective nerf , I no longer have any intrest in this feature of the game. Ive given it a couple days, and incursioning isnt worth my time now. Thanks CCP for ruining yet another feature of the game that I enjoyed. CCP is very effective in ruining anything they pay attention to in Eve... since they haven't done jack shite in W-Space for Escalation or Inferno I guess I should go there since its being ignored. Nahhhh after being able to be actually sociable in an MMO with Incursions movin' to a wormhole sounds like living under a rock. Maybe its just time t take another Eve break since summer is comming around.
Yeah i certainly dont plan on using any more plex's to sub any of my accounts once they expire, like you said, summer is here, Aion is free to play, GW2 beta has been released far FAR FAAAAARRRRRRRRR better games out there this summer, and with the hole "CCP breaking internet spaceships since 2003" motto they seem to be adopting lately lost all repect and interest as well. Cherry on the cake was that joke of a GFX for PLEX sale they had!
Eve is real..... nope "eve is real......ly sh*t" |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
602
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 10:15:00 -
[593] - Quote
So looks like the enjoyable group content is still the same, only thing that changed was the fact that their payout is no longer astronomically out of proportion in comparison to the rest of the game?
Who could have guessed, looks like the "elite" Incursion RMTers need to look for other ways to make isk to sell.
Hell, maybe this opens up room for the guys with only T1 battleships. Kinda like it was meant to be. ~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 12:10:00 -
[594] - Quote
Roime wrote:Hell, maybe this opens up room for the guys with only T1 battleships. Kinda like it was meant to be.
The complete opposite actually, if it is not worth it for a well build fleet doing twice the amounts of sites in the same time, it isn't worth it for the rest for sure. It even forces the the Assault and HQ FCs to be a lot more picky with her fleets to archive something worth doing, plus moving all the more serious VG people to Assault and HQ will even more push them out of the other sites. In the end they casual low budget guyes get screwed the most.
Btw nice straw man argument calling Incursion runners RMTers. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
166
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 23:57:00 -
[595] - Quote
Roime wrote:So looks like the enjoyable group content is still the same, only thing that changed was the fact that their payout is no longer astronomically out of proportion in comparison to the rest of the game?
Who could have guessed, looks like the "elite" Incursion RMTers need to look for other ways to make isk to sell.
Hell, maybe this opens up room for the guys with only T1 battleships. Kinda like it was meant to be.
1)lol Incursion RMTers hahahahahahahaha oh yes look how EZ it is to bot Incursions for ISK 2)The NERF has made Incursions an even higher barrier to entry for T1 BS hulls TBH To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 00:18:00 -
[596] - Quote
"Roime wrote: So looks like the enjoyable group content is still the same, only thing that changed was the fact that their payout is no longer astronomically out of proportion in comparison to the rest of the game?
Who could have guessed, looks like the "elite" Incursion RMTers need to look for other ways to make isk to sell.
Hell, maybe this opens up room for the guys with only T1 battleships. Kinda like it was meant to be. "
Based on the red COnstellation control bars , It would appear few are enjoying the incursions . If they were they would be blue not red. I wonder if they will even kill the mom and complete the incursion. Nice work CCP! |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
662
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 00:42:00 -
[597] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Very effective nerf , I no longer have any intrest in this feature of the game. Ive given it a couple days, and incursioning isnt worth my time now. Thanks CCP for ruining yet another feature of the game that I enjoyed. CCP is very effective in ruining anything they pay attention to in Eve... since they haven't done jack shite in W-Space for Escalation or Inferno I guess I should go there since its being ignored. Nahhhh after being able to be actually sociable in an MMO with Incursions movin' to a wormhole sounds like living under a rock. Maybe its just time t take another Eve break since summer is comming around. Do it. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Chloe Germain
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 06:19:00 -
[598] - Quote
I don't know that CCP could have Nerfed incursions harder. I went from making 100m an hour in a blinged out t3 (High risk high reward) to hardly breaking 30m while still being required to sit in a multi-billion isk Strategic cruiser. (High risk no reward.) Rescind the nerf and listen to hardcore incursion runners before trying to balance it. The reward system should be: High reward-Lowsec > Nullsec > highsec - : Low reward. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 07:13:00 -
[599] - Quote
just leave and stop postting useless stuff
like anyone will give a f*ck about you leaving |
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC Supernova Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 19:22:00 -
[600] - Quote
I'll just add my 2 cents.
Before the patch, VGs gave too much money and blitzing was... pathetic. Both of those problems were addressed and quite well. Currently, it looks like VGs NCOs are going down in 6 minutes. Some might say it still need some refinement, but looks ok.
The problem I see is the volley damage.
Once the logis get to you, aka lock + have a cycle to spare, you're fine, but until that point, you're in trouble.
People ended up talking that from 4 they jumped to 8 logis in Assault sites to feel comfortable.
(if you're a TLDR guy, stop here)
I've watched several ships being blown up simply because logis couldn't lock + rep fast enough before the target was blown. Talking about 100k EHP battleship here in a ASSAULT site.
When people go to the point of turning off turrets to be able to fit 2 x 1600mm plus all the other tanking modules, to me is just wrong. Maybe shield fleet is not having those issues thanks to the amazing Invulnerability Field II module, but there is no such thing for armor and it is a huge pain.
Overall, still good money, tons of fun, excitement in the field, surprises with one or another wave still being discovered... but... I don't wanna blow up. I'm not flying a fancy 2bil ship, just a simple Abaddon the best I can fit it for it. Despite all the problems with capacitor that Lasers already have to deal with, not being able to SURVIVE is quite scary.
Incursions are great, best fun I had so far in the game, but right now, too risky. |
|
Corbin Blair
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
73
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 19:42:00 -
[601] - Quote
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec This. Or make it like it was in beta when you could fight concord. I think that was the right level of protection. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 19:57:00 -
[602] - Quote
Quote:Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Um, no. There has to be bigger rewards per person for bigger groups. |
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC Supernova Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 20:37:00 -
[603] - Quote
Corbin Blair wrote:Maybe if you weren't trying to hard to stay in the newbie area (high sec) forever you'd be having more fun. Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?
Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right...
Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez... |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 20:39:00 -
[604] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Quote:Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet). Um, no. There has to be bigger rewards per person for bigger groups.
shouldnt group of 10 dudes running lv4 should get equal payout as incursion??? |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 20:48:00 -
[605] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:Takseen wrote:Quote:Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet). Um, no. There has to be bigger rewards per person for bigger groups. shouldnt group of 10 dudes running lv4 should get equal payout as incursion???
No, level 4 missions -are easier (ib4 hurr durr incursions are easy, level 4s are easier still) -most missions don't have enough rat EHP to give 10 players in Incursion quality fits time to shoot at stuff. Bringing 10 guys to a level 4 mission just isn't efficient. -incursions can be contested by other players -incursions require more travel time, more specific fleeting requirements(a FC of some kind, logistics), and may not always be present
|
Alicia Fermi
EVE University Ivy League
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 20:52:00 -
[606] - Quote
Let us not beat around the bush. As an in-game activity, incursions are far healthier than missions. Incursions promote the use of dedicated logistics and buffer tanks. Compare with mission fits and their low-buffer local tanks. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 20:55:00 -
[607] - Quote
Alicia Fermi wrote:Let us not beat around the bush. As an in-game activity, incursions are far healthier than missions. Incursions promote the use of dedicated logistics and buffer tanks. Compare with mission fits and their low-buffer local tanks.
Indeed. If the only issue with them is the ISK faucet, just offer non-ISK rewards instead.
|
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 21:10:00 -
[608] - Quote
Alicia Fermi wrote:Let us not beat around the bush. As an in-game activity, incursions are far healthier than missions. Incursions promote the use of dedicated logistics and buffer tanks. Compare with mission fits and their low-buffer local tanks.
omg, cus of incursion that the whole new eden hs buffer tank and use of logistics.
noone knows how to use logistics and buffer tank before incursion, amazing!!!! |
Thibault Etienne
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 22:39:00 -
[609] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Remove isk rewards entirely, increase LP payout and stop spawning/despawn any sites once the mom has spawned.
yep agree completely
and get concord more efficient against suicide gankers in hi sec. It is meant to be high security space after all. Nope I'm not a carebear I'm a trader. I go anywhere there's ISK but I can see the point of view.
It's a fact that not everyone wants to go null sec and PVP some people want to live in hi sec and do hi seccy stuff,and why not indeed. |
Alicia Fermi
EVE University Ivy League
21
|
Posted - 2012.04.28 22:53:00 -
[610] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:iomg, cus of incursion that the whole new eden has buffer tank and use of logistics.
noone knows how to use logistics and buffer tank before incursion, amazing!!!! For many high-sec mission runners, yes, incursions have done a lot to promote the use of logistics in their game. These skills can be transferred more readily to other aspects of the game -- I call that a Good Thing. This is not the case with solo mission running; therefore, players running incursions is better for the game than players running missions.
There was a problem with the reward aspect of incursions but, as an activity, they are much better than missions. If I had to pick one to remain in the game then it would be incursions. Missions are terrible. |
|
Daool
WE FIGHT S E D I T I O N
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 01:41:00 -
[611] - Quote
Incursions were fine as they were, maybe just the 10% nerf to vg is needed.
Cccp has just been masivelly trolled by the whiners.
U can't just push sites into lowsec (much as the gatecamping hot droppers would love it)and buffing nulsec sites only helps the sov holder who farms them while forum trolling about anyone farming such sites.
Wake up ccp, u have just allowed yourself to be massively trolled into making these changes. |
Xander Riggs
EVE University Ivy League
175
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 01:47:00 -
[612] - Quote
I don't care about the pay nerfs, but the spawns are horrid. At least before there was occasionally the need to switch primary targets once in a while. Now you just blast the one or two jamming ships and afk your way to the end of the mission.
I enjoy incursions because they ere the only worthwhile group content you could just hop into and run outside of pvp. Though I enjoy pvp, I don't jump into it without a reason. Incursions were a fun fleet op. They weren't hard before, by any stretch, but now falling asleep during vanguards is a legitimate concern.
More ships, random spawns. Give us something to pay attention to. "A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands." |
Wyte Ragnarok
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 07:23:00 -
[613] - Quote
Daool wrote:Cccp has just been masivelly trolled by the whiners.
This. And it's quite funny to see the effects it has had. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
634
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 07:32:00 -
[614] - Quote
Daool wrote:U can't just push sites into lowsec (much as the gatecamping hot droppers would love it)and buffing nulsec sites only helps the sov holder who farms them while forum trolling about anyone farming such sites. You do know that nullsec sov holders have to clear them as fast as possible, since they have this nasty habit of shutting down all of our logistics and ability to deploy since they cynojam the entire constellation, right?
Incursions in nullsec are balanced, even if they pay out twice what they do now(I don't think they should) just because we cannot leave them there, they leave us too vulnerable in too many way.
Well, unless they spawn in some backwater constellation that absolutely no one ever uses. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
280
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 07:45:00 -
[615] - Quote
A nice buff for Incursions in terms of gameplay would be to remove CONCORD protection in invaded High Sec systems and add some mechanic for players to side with the Sansha. That would make for much more interesting and dynamic gameplay that is more in keeping with the spirit of EVE. Also, with genuine risk added, payouts could be boosted back up, otherwise I really think more nerfs are needed. |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
452
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 08:21:00 -
[616] - Quote
Korgan Nailo wrote:Corbin Blair wrote:Maybe if you weren't trying to hard to stay in the newbie area (high sec) forever you'd be having more fun. Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP? Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right... Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez...
Yea cause you totally know all the systems in 0.0 have nothing nuilt up in them, no industry/military build up cause the 0.0ers wouldnt ever PVE
"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::
Yes |
CyberRaver
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 22:04:00 -
[617] - Quote
The new incursions are god awful now, and not worth running, ruining one of the only truly social experiences in eve, take them back to how they were wave wise and implement a fer to payout amount by like 5 million, that brings them in line and makes them worth all the hassle and risk and investment |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
167
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 09:12:00 -
[618] - Quote
The Incursion nerf has worse then decimated incursioner numbers at least in HI SEC. I predict AT LEAST a hexi- to pentimation of incursion runners & subscription losses. Dunno if NULL & LO sec will see same losses in incursions yet. Good job on effing up yet another part of the game why don't you go fix wormholes and drive everyone outta there next? CCP's touch is like an effing bull in a china store. To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
644
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 09:33:00 -
[619] - Quote
Welp, appears from the massive whining that highsec incursions may actually be balanced in terms of risk:reward.
Good job CCP!
Now just fix the industry risk:reward and things might be getting close to balanced Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
644
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 09:36:00 -
[620] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Korgan Nailo wrote:Corbin Blair wrote:Maybe if you weren't trying to hard to stay in the newbie area (high sec) forever you'd be having more fun. Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP? Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right... Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez... Yea cause you totally know all the systems in 0.0 have nothing nuilt up in them, no industry/military build up cause the 0.0ers wouldnt ever PVE It shows just how easy those sites were easy to get rid of eh? Make em a bit harder (ppl have been qqing for that for years), randomize the spawns (again, careful what you wish for), reduce the payout 10% (thats the low/0.0 QQers that did that, all so they could go back to QQing about lvl 4 missions If 0.0 has THAT much more ways to have fun and make money why dont you do THAT and worry about your own **** for a change?) and BOOM! "QQ INCUUUURRRRSIONS R DED!!" Man Ive never seen a group more resistant to Hing the F U or ADAPT -ing RATHER than dieing since I joined this game. Actually I remembered reading something that tickled my brain and I got it. What was the Boomerang thing all good then suddenly declared a exploit? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-27-ccp-players-attempt-to-destroy-eve-online-economy-is-f-ing-brilliantQuote:Some players are worried the game will be ruined by The Mittani's Goonswarm alliance, but CCP promised not to interfere.
"I tell you what, it's going to be f***ing brilliant," Jon Lander, senior producer of Eve Online, told Eurogamer this morning. "Absolutely brilliant. "There was one bug [the 'bookmark escaping agro bug'] in the game that meant that if they do the things they're going to do, they could have escaped the in-game consequences. So we fixed that bug about three weeks ago. And they went, okay. So, all of you who wonder why the Boomerang suddenly became an exploit? There you go The boomerang maneuver wasn't a bug, and had nothing to do with bookmarks. Til very very recently it was upheld as 'intelligent use of game mechanics' when petitioned, as long as the ganker died. It was not til a ganker posted how it worked on the forums, and worked out a science of doing it, that the carebears learned it existed(it has been known about for years) and complained til it got nerfed.
Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
|
Wyte Ragnarok
35
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 09:40:00 -
[621] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Now just fix the industry risk:reward and things might be getting close to balanced
THIS! Because it'd be freaking hilarious! |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
870
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 09:55:00 -
[622] - Quote
Korgan Nailo wrote:Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?
Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right...
Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez... Someone doesn't understand the concept of interdependent systems.
Besides... you know there are tales of people jumping into those systems and not getting blown up, right? I know, I know, it's crazy talk but hear me out. Some people right, they actually read a little about mechanics, ship fits and strategies for making ISK before going.
I hear they come back rich.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
167
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 10:58:00 -
[623] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
875
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 11:13:00 -
[624] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19709210.jpg
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
645
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 11:28:00 -
[625] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Korgan Nailo wrote:Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?
Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right...
Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez... Someone doesn't understand the concept of interdependent systems. Besides... you know there are tales of people jumping into those systems and not getting blown up, right? I know, I know, it's crazy talk but hear me out. Some people right, they actually read a little about mechanics, ship fits and strategies for making ISK before going. I hear they come back rich. Its amazing. I blow through the notorious EC-P8R gatecamp on quite the regular basis(good way to and from the scary scary high sec areas... all those neuts I can't shoot at*shudder*) and have only exploded there once?
And it was to blue fire, too Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC Supernova Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 16:20:00 -
[626] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Korgan Nailo wrote:Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?
Oh wait... I forgot... usually low / null-sec players can't believe the others are not jumping into those systems so they can blow them up... ah... ok... ok... TOTALLY part of my view of "fun", being blown up... right...
Leave the High-sec players have their fun, go back to low / null and have yours. Geez... Someone doesn't understand the concept of interdependent systems. Besides... you know there are tales of people jumping into those systems and not getting blown up, right? I know, I know, it's crazy talk but hear me out. Some people right, they actually read a little about mechanics, ship fits and strategies for making ISK before going. I hear they come back rich. Can you read? I mean, really read, not just the words, but their meaning?
What part of "Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?" you didn't get?
Actually, nvm, I guess your posts just answer that very same question. You can't.
And since all your posts are constructive, here is something for you:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19719218.jpg |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 17:04:00 -
[627] - Quote
Funny thing is you could fix the overfarming of Incursions with the exact same mechanic every other MMO uses to prevent the same thing happening, but I doubt CCP would touch it. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
882
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 17:08:00 -
[628] - Quote
Korgan Nailo wrote:Can you read? I mean, really read, not just the words, but their meaning?
What part of "Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?" you didn't get?
Actually, nvm, I guess your posts just answer that very same question. You can't. I understand that your meaning is: "I don't know how to avoid combat, and I'm unwilling to learn. Please give us PvP free zones so I can continue levelling up this lvl80 mage and get all my purple gear".
It seems you may be playing the incorrect game.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 17:15:00 -
[629] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:[quote=Korgan Nailo] It seems you may be playing the incorrect game.
Highsec and Concord's current level of protection in that area has been around for years. If you want a server wide no holds barred arena, you're the one playing the wrong game. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
664
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 17:22:00 -
[630] - Quote
Takseen wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:[quote=Korgan Nailo] It seems you may be playing the incorrect game. Highsec and Concord's current level of protection in that area has been around for years. If you want a server wide no holds barred arena, you're the one playing the wrong game. Your inability to understand the point of Concord is only dwarfed in stupidity by your desire for a PVP flag in a 100% PVP game. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
|
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 17:26:00 -
[631] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Takseen wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:[quote=Korgan Nailo] It seems you may be playing the incorrect game. Highsec and Concord's current level of protection in that area has been around for years. If you want a server wide no holds barred arena, you're the one playing the wrong game. Your inability to understand the point of Concord is only dwarfed in stupidity by your desire for a PVP flag in a 100% PVP game.
Quote:by your desire for a PVP flag in a 100% PVP game.
My desire for a what, now? |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:07:00 -
[632] - Quote
funny how incursions promised so much in terms of emergent game stlyes - characters corps and alliances all set up to combat the farming......
people having fun killing bling bling ships - shame ccp (not sure which one) is it either wouldn't or couldn't come up with a 2nd chapter to this ISK farming....
shame that the only farming that they wont touch is moon mining and how much isk that generates from doing sweet fa and having no risk.....an activity that is something completely non-teamwork effective....
im only sad that this part of the game was great fun and CCP caved .. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
435
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:11:00 -
[633] - Quote
Korgan Nailo wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni][quote=Korgan Nailo]Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to enga
What part of "Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?" you didn't get?
What part of EVE is a sandbox do you not understand? You may not wish to pvp but if you undock you agree that it can happen. It's only you're own entitled outlook on the world that makes you believe you're different from so many other players in the game that are willing to accept that premise, so it's only yourself to blame when that belief is proved wrong. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
95
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:21:00 -
[634] - Quote
supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl.
High sec carebear assuming that 0.0 people actually don't want their moons nerfed.
My counter proposal: Nerf moons and incursions to the ground.
On a different note, your arguments are pretty ****. |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:39:00 -
[635] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. High sec carebear assuming that 0.0 people actually don't want their moons nerfed. My counter proposal: Nerf moons and incursions to the ground. On a different note, your arguments are pretty ****.
I am sick to the back teeth of everyones first reaction when something that people enjoy doing together and pays well is to nerf it to high heaven and back......you did it with the nano nerf, you did it with sc's and titans and dreads.
STOP FUCKIN THINKING LIKE THIS > STOP NERFING THINGS FOR NERFING SAKE AND BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY ORGINAL THAT BRINGS A "2ND CHAPTER" TO THE GAME.
I was urging you on to not go down the nerf route and come up with a totally unique game play to high sec and low sec incursions. something totally new to the game and would mean even high seccers would think "**** me this is good".
CCP; STOP NERFING, PLAYERS STOP SUGGESTING THINGS ARE NERFED JUST BECUASE THEIR SAND CASTLE IS BETTER THAN YOURS. CCP THINK OUT THE BOX AND INVENT NEW MODS, SHIPS AND NEW WAYS TO CREATE EMERGENT GAME STLYES.... WELL DONE, HIGH SEC INCURSIONS WERE SLOWLY EVOLVING INTO A BRAND NEW EMERGENT GAME STYLE WHERE THE CRY BABIES WERE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT..... YOU JUST KILLED IT. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2327
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:43:00 -
[636] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:Amsterdam Conversations wrote:supersexysucker wrote:Nerf moons, 0.0 has no effort moons, highsec has effort incrusions... you want to nerf incrusions... then get around to them moons too...
Takes what, 1 falcon to screw a whole fleet in an incrusion... billions in loses... takes um what, 1000 people to even try to attack a tech moon. Can't really say risk vs reward now can we?
Also nerf chain ratting if that is still around since all these 0.0 bears seem to want to nerf HS more danger isk.
rofl. High sec carebear assuming that 0.0 people actually don't want their moons nerfed. My counter proposal: Nerf moons and incursions to the ground. On a different note, your arguments are pretty ****. I am sick to the back teeth of everyones first reaction when something that people enjoy doing together and pays well is to nerf it to high heaven and back......you did it with the nano nerf, you did it with sc's and titans and dreads. STOP FUCKIN THINKING LIKE THIS > STOP NERFING THINGS FOR NERFING SAKE AND BE BRAVE ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING TOTALLY ORGINAL THAT BRINGS A "2ND CHAPTER" TO THE GAME. I was urging you on to not go down the nerf route and come up with a totally unique game play to high sec and low sec incursions. something totally new to the game and would mean even high seccers would think "**** me this is good". CCP; STOP NERFING, PLAYERS STOP SUGGESTING THINGS ARE NERFED JUST BECUASE THEIR SAND CASTLE IS BETTER THAN YOURS. CCP THINK OUT THE BOX AND INVENT NEW MODS, SHIPS AND NEW WAYS TO CREATE EMERGENT GAME STLYES.... WELL DONE, HIGH SEC INCURSIONS WERE SLOWLY EVOLVING INTO A BRAND NEW EMERGENT GAME STYLE WHERE THE CRY BABIES WERE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT..... YOU JUST KILLED IT.
Gotta nerf something. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
886
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:44:00 -
[637] - Quote
CCP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NERF CAPS LOCK RAGE POASTS.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2327
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:46:00 -
[638] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:CCP FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NERF CAPS LOCK RAGE POASTS.
That's the spirit |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
235
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:56:00 -
[639] - Quote
I've never run one.
I look at the Incursion chat channel and I am repelled by all the drama and bullcrap there, despite being able to field a logi or pretty much any T2 fitted battleship (well Caldari or Amaar at least) you could want.
What I read in that chat doesn't sound much like there's any teamwork going on there. All I see is smacktalk and armchair commanders telling people they suck.
I'm gonna take a pass on that sort of thing, thanks. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
167
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 18:57:00 -
[640] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Korgan Nailo wrote:Can you read? I mean, really read, not just the words, but their meaning?
What part of "Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?" you didn't get?
Actually, nvm, I guess your posts just answer that very same question. You can't. It seems you may be playing the incorrect game.
Oh noes someone plays a different game then Simi plays she must troll it to death!?!?! CCP please listen to more trolls like Simi so your unsubs of incursion runners will look like this http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2673/lemo.jpg To the whiners : CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
|
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:00:00 -
[641] - Quote
it could have been so much more fun....
just off my head now when you are in the area of incursions you are either a terrorist (fighting for sansha's) or counter-terrorist (fighting against sansha)... you choose what team you are on which is active for the entire duration of the incursion....
"2nd chapter" achieved, farming disrupted... people continue to have fun... and this seamingly ignorant perception that high sec incursions carry no risk is reduced since now cry babies can something about it....= emergent game play...
3rd chapter - new mods and ships used in the different sites to cotribute to the risk of running incursions = another new emergent game play.
you wanted variety i just gave you one that would open a selection box.
|
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
142
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:33:00 -
[642] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:I've never run one.
I look at the Incursion chat channel and I am repelled by all the drama and bullcrap there, despite being able to field a logi or pretty much any T2 fitted battleship (well Caldari or Amaar at least) you could want.
What I read in that chat doesn't sound much like there's any teamwork going on there. All I see is smacktalk and armchair commanders telling people they suck.
I'm gonna take a pass on that sort of thing, thanks.
Havent gone back to incursions, but we shall head back to the origins and the first fleets.
We lol'ed everybody who brought what now became the standard fleet. It took us 15+ minutes to run because there was no I win fits developed yet. I was talking to a person who still ran incursions and heard stuff like ohnoes, 3 maras and my vindi cannot do anything. Well, welcome to eve, you now need to fit for general use. Get back to tackle, herding and ewar ships to make em work for you. Get tackle ships, etc. The way it sounds, should still be good for 30/40mil a person in highsec.
Risk comes reward. Want vanguards, fit and less risk. Run higher end sites, well don't fly 2 bil fits and instead head to T1. Person loses a ship, everybody else in the fleet sends em a few mil each manditory. I was thinking of coming back to FC them, but most of this incursion change sounds like whiners so nay on that right now. Get yourself a real FC to run them and stuff will get done. Somebody who can do more than read a survival guide that is 4 lines long. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
664
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:57:00 -
[643] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Korgan Nailo wrote:Can you read? I mean, really read, not just the words, but their meaning?
What part of "Is it that hard for people to understand that there are players who do NOT want to engage in PvP?" you didn't get?
Actually, nvm, I guess your posts just answer that very same question. You can't. It seems you may be playing the incorrect game. Oh noes someone plays a different game then Simi plays she must troll it to death!?!?! CCP please listen to more trolls like Simi so your unsubs of incursion runners will look like this http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2673/lemo.jpg This would be great for the game, starting with you. Didn't you whine-threaten to do it already? Why are you still here? http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose Remove all incursions from hisec |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 20:08:00 -
[644] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:it could have been so much more fun....
just off my head now when you are in the area of incursions you are either a terrorist (fighting for sansha's) or counter-terrorist (fighting against sansha)... you choose what team you are on which is active for the entire duration of the incursion....
"2nd chapter" achieved, farming disrupted... people continue to have fun... and this seamingly ignorant perception that high sec incursions carry no risk is reduced since now cry babies can something about it....= emergent game play...
3rd chapter - new mods and ships used in the different sites to cotribute to the risk of running incursions = another new emergent game play.
you wanted variety i just gave you one that would open a selection box.
Sounds like a copy paste of Faction Warfare, but with stronger rats. It'd be just as popular as the lowsec Incursions. In fact it'd be even worse, since the pro-Sansha forces are entirely safe while travelling to the Incursion zone. Seriously. Stop and think about why lowsec Incursions are barely run. If you can fix that problem, then you'll be getting somewhere.
|
Mr Steinberg
Beta Grid
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 09:38:00 -
[645] - Quote
Did CCP staff try the incursion sites after they changed them? I feel sorry for people that activly like group pve, and dont have hours and hours to invest in fleet formups for Assault/HQ. |
Zelota
hbc inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:55:00 -
[646] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:Did CCP staff try the incursion sites after they changed them? I feel sorry for people that activly like group pve, and dont have hours and hours to invest in fleet formups for Assault/HQ. they ruined it for people that dont have time for eve. |
Zelota
hbc inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:18:00 -
[647] - Quote
Takseen wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:it could have been so much more fun....
just off my head now when you are in the area of incursions you are either a terrorist (fighting for sansha's) or counter-terrorist (fighting against sansha)... you choose what team you are on which is active for the entire duration of the incursion....
"2nd chapter" achieved, farming disrupted... people continue to have fun... and this seamingly ignorant perception that high sec incursions carry no risk is reduced since now cry babies can something about it....= emergent game play...
3rd chapter - new mods and ships used in the different sites to cotribute to the risk of running incursions = another new emergent game play.
you wanted variety i just gave you one that would open a selection box.
Sounds like a copy paste of Faction Warfare, but with stronger rats. It'd be just as popular as the lowsec Incursions. In fact it'd be even worse, since the pro-Sansha forces are entirely safe while travelling to the Incursion zone. Seriously. Stop and think about why lowsec Incursions are barely run. If you can fix that problem, then you'll be getting somewhere.
how about this we create a system in witch miners can actualy do damage and then if you have a hulk fleet and you can atack a ship with the mining lazors you mine away there ship and get all the minerals faster than mining normaly that would drop mineral prices and bring people in hulks to 0.0 to pvp its great ideaz! derp |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 07:01:00 -
[648] - Quote
Zelota wrote:Mr Steinberg wrote:Did CCP staff try the incursion sites after they changed them? I feel sorry for people that activly like group pve, and dont have hours and hours to invest in fleet formups for Assault/HQ. they ruined it for people that dont have lots of time for eve
CCP did not test these sites. Jesus Crist I've tried to get these OTAs down but hell better off letting OTA's stack & go to Assaults afterwards or if you don't have the numbers quit until after DT. Code monkies at CCP just throw poo on the walls & CCP beta tests live. Reminds me of the original NCN's but not as much of a death trap Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 07:05:00 -
[649] - Quote
I welcome these changes, incursions before must have been the easiest way to make ISK and it was too easy. Enough with the mining and missions and sites, incursions was like CCP asking people to NEVER even TRY to leave high-sec even if you were a veteran. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 07:51:00 -
[650] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:I welcome these changes, incursions before must have been the easiest way to make ISK and it was too easy. Enough with the mining and missions and sites, incursions was like CCP asking people to NEVER even TRY to leave high-sec even if you were a veteran. still many people understand why CCP did the nerf.
they should leave it that way and tell those HS bears HTFU |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 08:11:00 -
[651] - Quote
lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
399
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 08:28:00 -
[652] - Quote
Best thing ever, but I do see that at least 2 players don't agree. |
Sevren Achros
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:29:00 -
[653] - Quote
Assaults needed to be made a more attractive option, CCP. That doesn't mean make them take longer than before. Shortly after the change went live, we went to see how much more they paid out. Instead, we found the sites took longer to complete.
I'm honestly a bit confused. since this thread started, the consensus has been that Assault and HQ site payouts were not in line with the extra effort required to run them. How do you take that and go in the exact opposite direction? We had a NCN take over 40 minutes to complete with a more than competent fleet composition and leadership. Vanguards were too rewarding compared to the Assaults and HQs, but you swung the nerf bat recklessly and ended up exactly in the position you were before - except now none of the site profiles are particularly enticing - especially in lowsec. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:37:00 -
[654] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs
Dude! We all knew this would happen since the shield fleets would be slowed down some and not wanting to hack the things in the OTAs they all but abandoned doing them. Now you will find them in Assaults before they consider the again.
Now now you need to stop being an elitist. OTAs can be ran with non shiny ships and gear. the pilots just neednderstand how to run the OTA and have awsome logi support.
all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them but still i say they need to 10% increasepayout on the Assault an HQs |
StuRyan
Assisted Homicide Ace of Spades.
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:55:00 -
[655] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs Dude! We all knew this would happen since the shield fleets would be slowed down some and not wanting to hack the things in the OTAs they all but abandoned doing them. Now you will find them in Assaults before they consider the again. Now now you need to stop being an elitist. OTAs can be ran with non shiny ships and gear. the pilots just neednderstand how to run the OTA and have awsome logi support. all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them but still i say they need to 10% increasepayout on the Assault an HQs
/me wants to spend 3 hours spamming channels looking for assualt fleets.....
GTFO.... VG's were good fun because it allowed for just 10 people to fleet up and complete a few sites... Now to run incursions those same 10 people are either back doing what they were doing before (perhaps null sec ratting since everything is about null sec) or 1/2 of those actually manage do actually get in assualt fleets....
this Risk versus reward model is bullsh!t.... since eve is a game meant for a team play and boasts itself as being "emergent gameplay" perhaps you should stop being so ignorant and narrow minded and understand not everything that involves high risk should be rewarded, could it be acually that the "ability to work as a team versus reward" is infact what CCP should be trying to achieve. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:41:00 -
[656] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs Dude! We all knew this would happen since the shield fleets would be slowed down some and not wanting to hack the things in the OTAs they all but abandoned doing them. Now you will find them in Assaults before they consider the again. Now now you need to stop being an elitist. OTAs can be ran with non shiny ships and gear. the pilots just neednderstand how to run the OTA and have awsome logi support. all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them but still i say they need to 10% increasepayout on the Assault an HQs
Sorry but the OTA changes made them out of reach to non shiney fleets. I still take all into my Vanguard pickup fleets so they can learn the non OTA sites have fun & make ISKies for better ships & mods, but when the Constellation becomes 100% OTA's like last night almost did I'll disband telling them thier ships will go poof. Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 22:58:00 -
[657] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:
/me wants to spend 3 hours spamming channels looking for assualt fleets.....
GTFO.... VG's were good fun because it allowed for just 10 people to fleet up and complete a few sites... Now to run incursions those same 10 people are either back doing what they were doing before (perhaps null sec ratting since everything is about null sec) or 1/2 of those actually manage do actually get in assualt fleets....
this Risk versus reward model is bullsh!t.... since eve is a game meant for a team play and boasts itself as being "emergent gameplay" perhaps you should stop being so ignorant and narrow minded and understand not everything that involves high risk should be rewarded, could it be acually that the "ability to work as a team versus reward" is infact what CCP should be trying to achieve.
The issue is that incursions became WoW barrens. LFAF/LFSF ship names with dps. The sites are still possible. We did OTA in the first days, and they were a challenge, granted. We fit non shiny fleets to do them. Hopefully the bleedoff means that the vanguards will be less done, and more assault fleets will form up. By all rights with the numbers and fleets that ran, shouldn;t have been a problem. What is needed is same stuff applied to missions to promote mission running for lower end pve. Incursions from the start were lauded at being the high end pve experience. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:50:00 -
[658] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: By all rights with the numbers and fleets that ran, shouldn;t have been a problem. What is needed is same stuff applied to missions to promote mission running for lower end pve.
If you mean mission running in groups, I agree. You could probably just take a level 4 mission and stick a gate on it capped at T1 cruisers, and give a payout per person in ISK and LP upon completion similar to the Incursion sites.
|
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 07:52:00 -
[659] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs Dude! We all knew this would happen since the shield fleets would be slowed down some and not wanting to hack the things in the OTAs they all but abandoned doing them. Now you will find them in Assaults before they consider the again. Now now you need to stop being an elitist. OTAs can be ran with non shiny ships and gear. the pilots just neednderstand how to run the OTA and have awsome logi support. all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them but still i say they need to 10% increasepayout on the Assault an HQs Sorry but the OTA changes made them out of reach to non shiney fleets. I still take all into my Vanguard pickup fleets so they can learn the non OTA sites have fun & make ISKies for better ships & mods, but when the Constellation becomes 100% OTA's like last night almost did I'll disband telling them thier ships will go poof.
Tell ya what there Darth. it can be proven...Oh hold it....it has been and you know where it has been proven that OTAs can be ran with T1 BS and BC with normal logi support with T2 gear. Hell let me check with the other FC in the TS and see if they wanna do another science fleet thingy for giggles. and i will drag ya into this one no assaults for you for a an our. LOL.
talk to ya later |
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC Supernova Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:01:00 -
[660] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote: Tell ya what there Darth. it can be proven...Oh hold it....it has been and you know where it has been proven that OTAs can be ran with T1 BS and BC with normal logi support with T2 gear. Hell let me check with the other FC in the TS and see if they wanna do another science fleet thingy for giggles. and i will drag ya into this one no assaults for you for a an our. LOL.
talk to ya later
Out of curiosity, this achievement you mentioned... was it Shields or Armor? |
|
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:18:00 -
[661] - Quote
i have had 10 guys unsub due to the changes... they were new to the game and enjoyed how VG's were helping them develop and get involved in other forms of eve...
sorry but i am a true believer that CCP got this completely wrong and shouldn't have caved... |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
215
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:20:00 -
[662] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:i have had 10 guys unsub due to the changes... they were new to the game and enjoyed how VG's were helping them develop and get involved in other forms of eve...
sorry but i am a true believer that CCP got this completely wrong and shouldn't have caved...
Incursions were too easy, too fast and too rewarding. Level 4 missions is rewarding enough as it is, anymore and people will never have reason to venture into low-sec or 0.0 |
xxanjoahir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:28:00 -
[663] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:i have had 10 guys unsub due to the changes... they were new to the game and enjoyed how VG's were helping them develop and get involved in other forms of eve...
sorry but i am a true believer that CCP got this completely wrong and shouldn't have caved... Incursions were too easy, too fast and too rewarding. Level 4 missions is rewarding enough as it is, anymore and people will never have reason to venture into low-sec or 0.0
thats BS: they were easy becuse people worked together... all CCP needed to do was mix them up... rather than pull the **** out their arse. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:48:00 -
[664] - Quote
xxanjoahir wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:i have had 10 guys unsub due to the changes... they were new to the game and enjoyed how VG's were helping them develop and get involved in other forms of eve...
sorry but i am a true believer that CCP got this completely wrong and shouldn't have caved... Incursions were too easy, too fast and too rewarding. Level 4 missions is rewarding enough as it is, anymore and people will never have reason to venture into low-sec or 0.0 thats BS: they were easy becuse people worked together... all CCP needed to do was mix them up... rather than pull the **** out their arse. ppl work together for a lot of stuff. stop saying as if incursion is innovation for everything in the whole new eden |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 17:51:00 -
[665] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:xxanjoahir wrote:i have had 10 guys unsub due to the changes... they were new to the game and enjoyed how VG's were helping them develop and get involved in other forms of eve...
sorry but i am a true believer that CCP got this completely wrong and shouldn't have caved... Incursions were too easy, too fast and too rewarding. Level 4 missions is rewarding enough as it is, anymore and people will never have reason to venture into low-sec or 0.0 thats BS: they were easy becuse people worked together... all CCP needed to do was mix them up... rather than pull the **** out their arse. ppl work together for a lot of stuff. stop saying as if incursion is innovation for everything in the whole new eden
It was pretty much the only cooperative casual group pve content. Closest thing before that was wormholes, but I'd hardly call that casual. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
176
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 04:27:00 -
[666] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs
8 hours before downtime & 100% of Minmitar constellation Vanguards consist of OTA's...
Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
918
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 04:54:00 -
[667] - Quote
No one cares.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 05:50:00 -
[668] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs 8 hours before downtime & 100% of Minmitar constellation Vanguards consist of OTA's...
Dude you forget that the Shield guys cannot do the OTAs . they are to scared to do them. so they run the NCO or NMC forcing the armor guys to run the OTAs. They also seem like they do not wish to contest our fleets now. no idea why maybe they just need someone to lead them by the hand and show them how to do it. but int he mean time more iskies for us armor guys |
Herr Ronin
Malum Crusis
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 19:20:00 -
[669] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol 4 hours before DT & Gallante space Vanguards are 100% stacked OTA's. No I didn't predict this in the forums in this very thread in the weeks proir to the patch... So Vanguards are suposed to be a trainning ground before assaults? OTA is a death trap for any non shiney ship. TBH All the assaults now are easier then the OTAs 8 hours before downtime & 100% of Minmitar constellation Vanguards consist of OTA's... Dude you forget that the Shield guys cannot do the OTAs . they are to scared to do them. so they run the NCO or NMC forcing the armor guys to run the OTAs. They also seem like they do not wish to contest our fleets now. no idea why maybe they just need someone to lead them by the hand and show them how to do it. but int he mean time more iskies for us armor guys
What is this bollocks?
Armor doing OTA's... Let's see how far that one goes.
I think you need to open your eyes and look at all the incursion community's before posting.
I agree, People are scared, They lack the know how on what to do and what will i do if that happens or if this happens, Its purely on the FC, If you are saying that shield does not do OTA's
This is stating ISN does not do them, Well fyi, We do them without hacking and with two logistics with 6 minutes blink to blink.
For instance the awesome lolly pop is the old VG's 160 mill per hour, After the patch the lolly pop is replaced with a bit of wood, with a 60 Mill per hour, People don't know something is good unless its took away from them, You can still plex your account with 60 mill per hour.
I admit, CCP is doing crap so far with Inferno, This Nerf has made me go into assaults with my community, Doing 100 mill per hour, But one thing i would like to know, They stated that Assaults where going to get buffed to be more appealing to the incursion runners that did VG's
Did i miss the buff? Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
180
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 21:00:00 -
[670] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote: all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them
Lies the CCP's breath is the stench of death for the fun of Incursions. Looks like they are beginning to see this in the numbers too. Testing of this was crap. I hope the rest of Inferno isn't as screwed up.
Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
926
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 01:42:00 -
[671] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them
Lies the CCP's breath is the stench of death for the fun of Incursions. Looks like they are beginning to see this in the numbers too. Testing of this was crap. I hope the rest of Inferno isn't as screwed up. 100m an hour on assaults?
Can anyone say nerf assaults?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 03:14:00 -
[672] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them
Lies the CCP's breath is the stench of death for the fun of Incursions. Looks like they are beginning to see this in the numbers too. Testing of this was crap. I hope the rest of Inferno isn't as screwed up. 100m an hour on assaults? Can anyone say nerf assaults?
100M/hour in assaults is another lie. No one can maintain that rate.
Get lucky and make 100M in a 60 minute block, maybe. But 200M in 2 hours, not a prayer
I used to run assaults in an armour fleet months ago. The FC was top notch, and very demanding of skills and ships. We averaged out at 60M/hour, occasionally spiking to 76M if we actually had 4 sites complete in a 60 minute block.
But hey, start cranking out the propaganda that Incursions are still too rich. Given the state of affairs inside CCP, they will likely believe it. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
966
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 03:51:00 -
[673] - Quote
I agree with Ronin. He runs a community which is quite involved with incursion content and he'd definitely know a thing or two about it.
I've run with more than a few of his fleets but haven't checked in since they nerfed it. Should drop in and say hi I spose. |
Galerak
CASCADE OF SPECTRES Comic Mischief
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 04:50:00 -
[674] - Quote
Joe SMASH wrote:Reduce payouts across the board. Bring vanguard sites down to level 4 mission (ISK/hr) payouts (per member of fleet).
Anyone else who complains about people killing the Mom are ignorant to the way incursions were supposed to be run. Farming vanguards w/o giving thought to killing the mom to extend the incursion as long as possible is nothing short of an exploit that should be fixed.
Flat nerfs to payout will not fix incursions.
I've been an incursion runner for about a year now and farming VG's has become a way of life. Need isk? Jump to your incursion clone and fly to nearest incursion, farm a few days take your 2+bil back to null sec or wherever 'home' is and buy w/e you want need for the next month.
It's a comfortable lifestyle. And while i appreciate it's merits i don't think that's what incursions were meant to be. I think there should be a sense of urgency to shutting down an incursion, not a reason to keep it going till the last day before killing the mom. I think there should be motivation to upgrade from vanguards to assaults and HQs and finally the mothership. Here are my suggestions:
1. Return the starting pay for VG's to the previous amount, until the system goes from red to blue on the meter, at which point scout/vanguard sites will receive reduced payout. Imo the reduced payout should be reduced slightly even from the current amount. (This should cause a sense of urgency to get to the incursion asap and begin shutting down VG's but will reduce motivation to keep the incursion up for longer farming)
2. Tweak the current VG's to make them slightly more time efficient to run without making them less difficult. (ie move the array closer to the warp in so the hacker doesnt have to run out of rep range, same for the ore drop in the NMC's, and remove the Niarja's from OTAs, this will allow fleets to focus fire on the tougher primary target, the Mara) This will allow fleets to take advantage of the initial higher pay of the VGs and draw people to the incursion systems more quickly allowing a larger pool of pilots for assembling Assault/HQ fleets once the mom spawns.
3. Slightly increase the payout for Assaults and HQs after the meter goes blue, but reduce the payout for inactive Assault/HQ sites once the Mothership spawns. This should help transition pilots from VG fleets to larger fleets while keeping Assault/HQ's from becoming the new farmable sites.
And if these arent enough to get people to shut down incursions faster then maybe some added incentive to killing the mom. Like a degrading of the bonus rewards from the Mothership site the longer it goes uncontested. The sooner you kill the mom the bigger your reward. I know CCP Affinity was running Incursions w/ BTL leaders and others on Sisi and perhaps they would have some suggestions on how to make the mom a higher priority. -OR- This is an invasion scenario, the pve equivalent of a hostile takeover... in an area being invaded like this you have those that would flee and those that would fight. The suggestions above are to motivate people to fight but if the mom still isnt going down sooner perhaps the incursion or the system penalties should spread to additional systems, or market/contracts would become inaccessable, or mission agents... something to make the noncombatants either defend the space or flee. |
RAP ACTION HERO
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 05:17:00 -
[675] - Quote
Reduce payment but bring back blitzing |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
182
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 06:39:00 -
[676] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:I agree with Ronin. He runs a community which is quite involved with incursion content and he'd definitely know a thing or two about it.
I've run with more than a few of his fleets but haven't checked in since they nerfed it. Should drop in and say hi I spose.
Many Incursion communities are onlife support CCP has killed a few already. Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
966
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 08:34:00 -
[677] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: Many Incursion communities are onlife support CCP has killed a few already.
I logged on to my incursion alt to plenty of channels not being valid. Nerfed it alright. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
182
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 11:05:00 -
[678] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them
Lies the CCP's breath is the stench of death for the fun of Incursions. Looks like they are beginning to see this in the numbers too. Testing of this was crap. I hope the rest of Inferno isn't as screwed up. 100m an hour on assaults? Can anyone say nerf assaults?
Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
182
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 11:13:00 -
[679] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:100m an hour on assaults? Can anyone say nerf assaults?
100M/hour in assaults is another lie. No one can maintain that rate.
Get lucky and make 100M in a 60 minute block, maybe. But 200M in 2 hours, not a prayer
I used to run assaults in an armour fleet months ago. The FC was top notch, and very demanding of skills and ships. We averaged out at 60M/hour, occasionally spiking to 76M if we actually had 4 sites complete in a 60 minute block.
But hey, start cranking out the propaganda that Incursions are still too rich. Given the state of affairs inside CCP, they will likely believe it.[/quote]
It is simply not possible to make 100 million an hour in assaults Simi is a lieing liar that lies & CCP believes this troll them they deserve to be slapped across the face with what ignoramuses they are listening to.
In HI SEC 100 million an hour is 5+ assaults in an hour by a single pilot. a 15 minute assault has not to my knowledge been accomplished without a site beinghalf completed by someone else. (60/15)*18.5<100 do the math trolls Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
933
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 11:22:00 -
[680] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote: all in all the Incursions are not that bad right now. CCP breathed some life into them
Lies the CCP's breath is the stench of death for the fun of Incursions. Looks like they are beginning to see this in the numbers too. Testing of this was crap. I hope the rest of Inferno isn't as screwed up. 100m an hour on assaults? Can anyone say nerf assaults? Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up.
Anyway, you going to try rolling with the punches and maybe swap to a different profession yet? Incursions are still by far the highest isk paying profession for the least risk, they still outrank chaining sanctums and they do it all in high sec. Especially since they can easily be dual boxed.
I really don't get what you're bitching about.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
182
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 11:41:00 -
[681] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni] Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up.
A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats
Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
933
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 11:54:00 -
[682] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni] Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up. A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats Doesn't he run an incursion community? Seems like a good source to me.
Besides, my other points still stand. Pretty good pay, little risk, easily dual boxed and without any of the hassle associated with living in low/null sec. I can't really see why you are still complaining.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Herr Ronin
Malum Crusis
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 14:09:00 -
[683] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni] Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up. A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats
No, Its the fact that we run with "Correct" Fittings, Not x4 LSE's and trying to get our nightmare's cap stable, Why would i lie about a fact, I am sorry that you run in public fleets.
There is a difference between ISN and other incursion community's, Its called "Adapting" we are good at doing what we do, Being a successful community, When inferno did hit EVE Online, ISN - Incursion Shiny Network is still a strong community, Now please go back to BTL or wherever you came from.
You make me sad.
Tip: Stop crying and maybe learn how to do your fleet comp correct and stop taking bio breaks after each site.
If you wish to discuss this on Teamspeak or have any concern that i am posting false fact's, Then let me know. Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
|
Herr Ronin
Malum Crusis
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 14:12:00 -
[684] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:100m an hour on assaults? Can anyone say nerf assaults? 100M/hour in assaults is another lie. No one can maintain that rate. Get lucky and make 100M in a 60 minute block, maybe. But 200M in 2 hours, not a prayer I used to run assaults in an armour fleet months ago. The FC was top notch, and very demanding of skills and ships. We averaged out at 60M/hour, occasionally spiking to 76M if we actually had 4 sites complete in a 60 minute block. But hey, start cranking out the propaganda that Incursions are still too rich. Given the state of affairs inside CCP, they will likely believe it.
It is simply not possible to make 100 million an hour in assaults Simi is a lieing liar that lies & CCP believes this troll them they deserve to be slapped across the face with what ignoramuses they are listening to.
In HI SEC 100 million an hour is 5+ assaults in an hour by a single pilot. a 15 minute assault has not to my knowledge been accomplished without a site beinghalf completed by someone else. (60/15)*18.5<100 do the math trolls[/quote]
I was going to argue with you, Then i seen what fleet comp you fly.
You fly "Armor"
That is all. Management Of ISN - Incursion Shiny Network
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
184
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 16:47:00 -
[685] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni] Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up. A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats Doesn't he run an incursion community? Seems like a good source to me. .
lol Rush Limbaugh is a Conservative he sounds like a good source of fair & balanced news to me... or Faux News is the only news cable channel that never has a biased slant on news to prop its ratings or Tobacco companies would never sell a dangerous product it would kill thier client base & take away from thier profits... or I beleive all third hand rumors I hear on the Internet they must be true just like there is no global warming.... Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó...-á-á http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
937
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 17:02:00 -
[686] - Quote
At this stage I am not even entirely certain what you are rambling about. You are calling the organizer of one of the best incursion communities in existence biased? On what grounds?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 01:05:00 -
[687] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote: But hey, start cranking out the propaganda that Incursions are still too rich. Given the state of affairs inside CCP, they will likely believe it.
Only explanation I can think of is is that CCP believes the trolls. Lets see how much the killing of Incursions and the communities affects the rampant inflation over the next 2 months CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
605
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 01:11:00 -
[688] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: But hey, start cranking out the propaganda that Incursions are still too rich. Given the state of affairs inside CCP, they will likely believe it.
Only explanation I can think of is is that CCP believes the trolls. Lets see how much the killing of Incursions and the communities affects the rampant inflation over the next 2 months Oh dear. Well, other things like the bot banning or whatnot might cause that.
If you have minerals as your price basket, I wouldn't be surprised if those went up due to hulkeageddon, either.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 02:26:00 -
[689] - Quote
Herr Ronin wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:[quote=Simi Kusoni] Who is making 100m an hour in assault liar? Tell me the name of a single pilot that is making 100millin an hour on assault troll! Herr Ronin, scroll up. A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats No, Its the fact that we run with "Correct" Fittings, Not x4 LSE's and trying to get our nightmare's cap stable, Why would i lie about a fact, I am sorry that you run in public fleets. There is a difference between ISN and other incursion community's, Its called "Adapting" we are good at doing what we do, Being a successful community, When inferno did hit EVE Online, ISN - Incursion Shiny Network is still a strong community, Now please go back to BTL or wherever you came from. You make me sad. Tip: Stop crying and maybe learn how to do your fleet comp correct and stop taking bio breaks after each site. If you wish to discuss this on Teamspeak or have any concern that i am posting false fact's, Then let me know.
kudos for good adapting instead of whining.
btw, don't waste time talking to Darth, he'll just ignore anything might have disadvantage on his interest |
General Jung
Asgard Intelligence Services Most Usual Suspects
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 17:16:00 -
[690] - Quote
Dear CCP,
here is my feedback from an tdf armor perspective.
- Assault/HQ still not pay more then small sites - Vanguard nerf is a bit overpowered, especially OTAs
And last but not least the influence bar seems to be to strong, especially because we now don-¦t have the playersbase to get people in larger fleets. |
|
Minabunny
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 17:51:00 -
[691] - Quote
If you base your development decisions on the feedback of the few users that browse this forum you should be fired. |
Halboreth
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 16:31:00 -
[692] - Quote
Ok, it was about time that something has to be done about the overpowered payout of vanguard sites. Especially something about those 'blitz'-fleets.
But really guys, what you did with escalation wasn't tweaking or nerving vanguards a bit, it was a complete hammer-break-down. I know there was a whole river of tears from null-sec players, but are you really that easy to influence from the ones crying out loudest?
Like stated on Fanfest 2011 Incursions should be attractive to be a melting pot and stepping stone to other fleet-based events. Now a mission runner can earn the same amount of isk like a standard vanguard-fleet. Why should he take the risk, time and effort to get an incursion-fleet?
The main goal - to get the payout in line with the risk - was not accomplished. Really, there's hardly any incursion site that is risky like an OTA besides the Mom now. It's less risky to do an assault site with a vg-fleet.
Of course, a specialized and shiny fleet is still able to be get decent payouts, but for people who do not want to use a 2+ billion isk-ship or communities where new players are welcome this patch made incursion quite unattractive.
Vanguards are still the base of Incursions, cutting it down like this will seriously damage the communities. I suggest to keep them with the full-spawn but increase the payout by at least 15% for VGs. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 16:59:00 -
[693] - Quote
Halboreth wrote:Ok, it was about time that something has to be done about the overpowered payout of vanguard sites. Especially something about those 'blitz'-fleets.
But really guys, what you did with escalation wasn't tweaking or nerving vanguards a bit, it was a complete hammer-break-down. I know there was a whole river of tears from null-sec players, but are you really that easy to influence from the ones crying out loudest?
Like stated on Fanfest 2011 Incursions should be attractive to be a melting pot and stepping stone to other fleet-based events. Now a mission runner can earn the same amount of isk like a standard vanguard-fleet. Why should he take the risk, time and effort to get an incursion-fleet?
The main goal - to get the payout in line with the risk - was not accomplished. Really, there's hardly any incursion site that is risky like an OTA besides the Mom now. It's less risky to do an assault site with a vg-fleet.
Of course, a specialized and shiny fleet is still able to be get decent payouts, but for people who do not want to use a 2+ billion isk-ship or communities where new players are welcome this patch made incursion quite unattractive.
Vanguards are still the base of Incursions, cutting it down like this will seriously damage the communities. I suggest to keep them with the full-spawn but increase the payout by at least 15% for VGs.
Ii think we should rename your toon to Mr Obvious. Few things need to be pointed out to you since it looks like you are talking from your brown pie hole about the current incursion running. 1> Vanguards now take longer to do then before with less Payout. some amount of risk is involved. 2> You whine and complain like 2 year old when you discover that some incursion runners develop a new strategy and Tactics 3> CCP got rid of the Legion Blitz Fleet. 4> OTAs are very dangerous i see ships get popped in there weekly. think last week was 3 ships got popped in there and thats with one group i know of
That's just a the tip of the iceberg i can keep going but i can say this much many of the incursion runners have given up on them or left the game because of 0.0 river of tears. Stay out there 0.0 care bear land and leave empire alone you got plenty of nullbears to play with |
Halboreth
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 17:59:00 -
[694] - Quote
No use to respond to such an obvious troll, this will lead to nothing. Some just need to grow up. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
985
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:03:00 -
[695] - Quote
Halboreth wrote:No use to respond to such an obvious troll, this will lead to nothing. Some just need to grow up. I think what really gives away that it's a troll is the fact that it's a null sec renter QQing about null sec players.
"OTAs are very dangerous i see ships get popped in there weekly" -was a rather masterful indirect troll comment though, I may have to use that myself when I'm posting on DarthNefarius one of my nameless troll alts.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 19:17:00 -
[696] - Quote
I fell for the trolololol. congrats. but you never know what main an alts are doing. your just jealous |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
188
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:21:00 -
[697] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Halboreth wrote:Ok, it was about time that something has to be done about the overpowered payout of vanguard sites. Especially something about those 'blitz'-fleets.
But really guys, what you did with escalation wasn't tweaking or nerving vanguards a bit, it was a complete hammer-break-down. I know there was a whole river of tears from null-sec players, but are you really that easy to influence from the ones crying out loudest? (snip)
(snip) That's just a the tip of the iceberg i can keep going but i can say this much many of the incursion runners have given up on them or left the game because of 0.0 river of tears. Stay out there 0.0 care bear land and leave empire alone you got plenty of nullbears to play with
Looks like the same old story with history repeating itself by the CCP DEV's: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/16/jesters-trek-demon-suit/
" IGÇÖve heard from more incursion runners that are just unsubbing rather than submit to that indignity. " CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:01:00 -
[698] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Halboreth wrote:Ok, it was about time that something has to be done about the overpowered payout of vanguard sites. Especially something about those 'blitz'-fleets.
But really guys, what you did with escalation wasn't tweaking or nerving vanguards a bit, it was a complete hammer-break-down. I know there was a whole river of tears from null-sec players, but are you really that easy to influence from the ones crying out loudest? (snip)
(snip) That's just a the tip of the iceberg i can keep going but i can say this much many of the incursion runners have given up on them or left the game because of 0.0 river of tears. Stay out there 0.0 care bear land and leave empire alone you got plenty of nullbears to play with Looks like the same old story with history repeating itself by the CCP DEV's: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/16/jesters-trek-demon-suit/" IGÇÖve heard from more incursion runners that are just unsubbing rather than submit to that indignity. "
I think your correct. well i geuss we will see what happens next week with the expansion |
KanashiiKami
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:49:00 -
[699] - Quote
i like to requote what i said before regarding changes that i feel will do alot of good with some changes reference to recent changes
1) rework sizes for max pilots in a fleet
VG - 8 AS - 14 HQ - 28 MOM- 50
smaller fleet sizes = faster fleet forming. ya we like to form fleets fast
2) contesting site isk/LP should be shared according to total damage % dealt into site.
will this introduce more poorly skilled players into incursions? fact--> we are all poorly skilled once, it is up to the FC to select and form his fleet and sort out. most closed group fleets help out their own weaker skilled friends, so i do not see a problem. we need players in such runs with good play attitude rather than a AFK 10b ship. remember its a reduced fleet size.
3) with down sizing of fleet size, total sansha DPS output dealt to playerbase should decrease accordingly to ensure playability of sites.
VG - -10% sansha total dps AS - -20% sansha total dps HQ - -30% sansha total dps MOM- -30% sansha total dps
this would seem like a nerf BUT ... read on ...
4) **previously suggested ---> with reduced DPS, ALL sites should introduce an extra special spawn that must be destroyed for site completion. new spawn introduced i will suggest be triggered after 2nd last site trigger is in effect. the spawn will consist of 1xsmartbomb armed sansha cruiser (SB strength = 2.5x of a T2 medium SB @ 25km radius effect going at a 8 second interval), 1xsensordampener armed frig, that can target 2 simultaneous targets to cause 500% t2 scripted sensor dampening effect @ 12s interval range of 50km, 1xremoteshieldrep armed cruiser that will effect 500% remote rep capabilities of a med T2 remote shield rep on 1 target @ 10s interval. this spawn is a unique grp and will move in a formation no further than 5km from each other.
this spawn will have the following spawn grps per sites:
VG - 1 spawn AS - 2 spawns HQ - 3 spawns MOM- 4 spawns
yes the repping capability = dps test benchmark. the rep % should be tweaked according to real fleets nominal dps, the 500% i have suggested is an arbituary value it could be 1000% or 200% for all i know. **
what ccp did change ---> as we all know ccp introduced a spawn of tamas and niarjas ---> how exciting !
ok since you already did that, i like to suggest the spawn has a AI that will do boat bumping to DPS ships. ya you heard what i said, sansha ship that will bump out DPS ships. i think alot mechanics of the game is such that they come they orbit we shoot we rep ourselves, it is getting boring. since you cant arm them with smart bomb, how about boat bumping? when i say bump i mean bump off by 50km +++
5) ok they have hacker cans, i like to suggest hacker cans remain, but introduce their own combat booster/buffing cruiser hulled ship (non attacking entity) that will do the following non stacking bonuses: VG - +150% shield HP AS - +60% shield HP HQ - +50% shield HP MOM- +40% shield HP this combat booster ship should be rendered highly untouchable with shield resistances of 90%. and EHP +500% of normal sansha spawn. it may be plausible that this unit will become prime target in mom/HQ fleets.
with the increased HP, the role of the sansha remote repping ships should now be nerfed to only rep @ 50% capacity.
6) with the increased overall EHP of sansha + extra spawns. it is only natural that the site will now take MORE time to complete than usual. and therefore it is only logical that bounties of ISK/LP increase, and by that i would mean a total increase of 70% of bounties across VG, 100% for AS sites and a 150% increase for HQ site and 200% increase for MOM site.
of course i do not agree with payout reduction by CCP.
MOM site no longer drops loot. but all MOM site pilot now recieve a tradable special insignia token that can be exchanged for special concord named items (that could be the random loot from the SC + some insane amt of LP?).
7) reconfiguration of a incursion cluster
each incursion spawn should now be as follows VG - 99 sites (spread over 11 to 15 systems) AS - 15 sites (spread over 5 systems) HQ - 9 sites (spread over 3 systems) MOM- 4 sites (spread over 2 systems)
and there is now only 1 hisec site, 1 losec, 1 nullsec. and each site can spawn over 3 adjoining constellations instead of 1.
50% of all initial spawned VG must be destoyed at least once to spawn AS sites, or wait 5days for AS auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned AS must be destoyed at least once to spawn HQ sites, or wait 7 days for HQ auto spawn
100% of all initial spawned HQ must be destoyed at least once to spawn MOM sites, or wait 9 days for MOM auto spawn. when MOM sites spawn, constellation wide all stargate, stations and VG/AS/HQ site-warpgates will be harrassed by a splash of 5-10 orkashu myelens, they do nothing but harrass with ecm. server restarts will spawn the rats if they are destroyed.
all 4 MOM sites must be destroyed to end the incursion and trigger LP payout. and MOM sites withdrawal time is set to countdown in 9 days. which means an entire incursion spawn will last maximum 18 full days
with the reduced fleet sized groupings, it is hoped to encourage more pilots to try AS/HQ sites.
the above changes is hoped to encourage, a more focused fleet activity rather than just bulldozing thru sites. overall i would say difficulty of sites is increased. while survivability of sites is also
i believe more experienced FC will have alot to say on the above ... please do :D (constructively of course)
thank you for reading (again) WUT ??? |
KanashiiKami
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:54:00 -
[700] - Quote
i think if all the nerfing by ccp on incursions is to contain the flow of isk spent on plex ... then i will suggest CCP restrict the number of plexes a player can buy using ISK per month instead of changing the way we group play. WUT ??? |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
192
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:08:00 -
[701] - Quote
Looks like the CCP DEV the OP talked about took a dump on Incursions I guess thats what you get when you hand off a fix on a retireing DEV. I hope before he goes they hand off fixing Tech moons to him too
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing!The system's crashing!"-Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
812
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:15:00 -
[702] - Quote
Herr Ronin wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:A liar quoting another liar is still a liar one doesn't cancel the other out. You don't know what you are talking about. No one pilot is making 100 million an hour in asssaults. Ask CCP Soundwave or CCP Diagos for the stats
No, Its the fact that we run with "Correct" Fittings, Not x4 LSE's and trying to get our nightmare's cap stable, Why would i lie about a fact, I am sorry that you run in public fleets. There is a difference between ISN and other incursion community's, Its called "Adapting" we are good at doing what we do, Being a successful community, When inferno did hit EVE Online, ISN - Incursion Shiny Network is still a strong community, Now please go back to BTL or wherever you came from. You make me sad. Tip: Stop crying and maybe learn how to do your fleet comp correct and stop taking bio breaks after each site. If you wish to discuss this on Teamspeak or have any concern that i am posting false fact's, Then let me know. You should just them them whine, you know. Showing that making good isk from incursions is possible is not what you want CCP to be aware of.
These forums may be intended to discover truth, but all it's used for is to shape perception. Instead you should "correct" your numbers and whine so that CCP will decide to reverse some of the nerfs, letting you make even more than you are now Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:20:00 -
[703] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Looks like the CCP DEV the OP talked about took a dump on Incursions I guess thats what you get when you hand off a fix on a retireing DEV. I hope before he goes they hand off fixing Tech moons to him too
Seriously dude?
You are doing a great job of turning CCP against incursion runners. By the time you've finished they're going to be so pissed off at you petitioning them, messaging them and constantly reviving all these threads that they're going to nerf incursions all over again just to **** you off.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
553
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:42:00 -
[704] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Halboreth wrote:Ok, it was about time that something has to be done about the overpowered payout of vanguard sites. Especially something about those 'blitz'-fleets.
But really guys, what you did with escalation wasn't tweaking or nerving vanguards a bit, it was a complete hammer-break-down. I know there was a whole river of tears from null-sec players, but are you really that easy to influence from the ones crying out loudest? (snip)
(snip) That's just a the tip of the iceberg i can keep going but i can say this much many of the incursion runners have given up on them or left the game because of 0.0 river of tears. Stay out there 0.0 care bear land and leave empire alone you got plenty of nullbears to play with Looks like the same old story with history repeating itself by the CCP DEV's: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/16/jesters-trek-demon-suit/" IGÇÖve heard from more incursion runners that are just unsubbing rather than submit to that indignity. "
So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:59:00 -
[705] - Quote
Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
192
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:13:00 -
[706] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable.
Look at it again its going down last week Sunday peaked at 47k this week 43km ( hint put your mouse over the graph for specific dates to appear ) An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing!The system's crashing!"-Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:15:00 -
[707] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable. Look at it again its going down last week Sunday peaked at 47k this week 43km ( hint put your mouse over the graph for specific dates to appear ) A difference of ~4k with two sample points is not a significant variation.
To highlight that fact, the Friday night one month ago (the highest point all week, on the 18/03/2012) the login count was 46k. That's a 3k deviation between now and a Friday night one month ago. Or screw it, let's look at a peak in January. The 23rd of January 42k, the 28th? 43k.
Etc.
And Darth fails hard at analysing data accurately again. This is starting to get embarrassing.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:22:00 -
[708] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable. Look at it again its going down last week Sunday peaked at 47k this week 43km ( hint put your mouse over the graph for specific dates to appear ) A difference of ~4k with two sample points is not a significant variation. To highlight that fact, the Friday night one month ago (the highest point all week, on the 18/03/2012) the login count was 46k. That's a 3k deviation between now and a Friday night one month ago. Or screw it, let's look at a peak in January. The 23rd of January 42k, the 28th? 43k. Etc. And Darth fails hard at analysing data accurately again. This is starting to get embarrassing.
Yeah, you just keep believing the attacks on high sec have no impact on sub rates. And when the numbers are down all summer, you will say "Diablo III and it is summertime".
But when the numbers are down in October, that is when things will get interesting. CCP may finally have to listen to some sane people, rather than the null sec zealot faction, which includes their own ex-goon (or is he still goon) lead designer. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:28:00 -
[709] - Quote
Tessla Coil wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable. Look at it again its going down last week Sunday peaked at 47k this week 43km ( hint put your mouse over the graph for specific dates to appear ) A difference of ~4k with two sample points is not a significant variation. To highlight that fact, the Friday night one month ago (the highest point all week, on the 18/03/2012) the login count was 46k. That's a 3k deviation between now and a Friday night one month ago. Or screw it, let's look at a peak in January. The 23rd of January 42k, the 28th? 43k. Etc. And Darth fails hard at analysing data accurately again. This is starting to get embarrassing. Yeah, you just keep believing the attacks on high sec have no impact on sub rates. And when the numbers are down all summer, you will say "Diablo III and it is summertime". But when the numbers are down in October, that is when things will get interesting. CCP may finally have to listen to some sane people, rather than the null sec zealot faction, which includes their own ex-goon (or is he still goon) lead designer. An argument based in unfounded prediction is worth nothing.
The data provided does not support your hypothesis, so what do you do? "TROLOLOL WHEN THE DATA DOES SUPPORT MY PREDICTION IN THE FUTURE.".
This is not a logical argument, it is a sign of desperation. There is no evidence of subscription rates dropping, yet you claim they will drop. There is evidence that subscription rates are stable, even growing slightly. You dismiss it, and continue with your analysis based on fictional data that will support everything you say come October.
Sometimes I wish children had the scientific method stuffed down their throats as they were growing up.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:38:00 -
[710] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Tessla Coil wrote:
Yeah, you just keep believing the attacks on high sec have no impact on sub rates. And when the numbers are down all summer, you will say "Diablo III and it is summertime".
But when the numbers are down in October, that is when things will get interesting. CCP may finally have to listen to some sane people, rather than the null sec zealot faction, which includes their own ex-goon (or is he still goon) lead designer.
An argument based in unfounded prediction is worth nothing. The data provided does not support your hypothesis, so what do you do? "TROLOLOL WHEN THE DATA DOES SUPPORT MY PREDICTION IN THE FUTURE.". This is not a logical argument, it is a sign of desperation. There is no evidence of subscription rates dropping, yet you claim they will drop. There is evidence that subscription rates are stable, even growing slightly. You dismiss it, and continue with your analysis based on fictional data that will support everything you say come October. Sometimes I wish children had the scientific method stuffed down their throats as they were growing up.
Look, you can lie all you want. You can say up is down, black is white. You can say whatever Orwellian thing comes into your null sec propagandist lizard brain.
But I know numerous people who are letting subs lapse over Incursions, datacores, L4 mission nerfs, or some combination. Those subs don't drop all at once. They take time to lapse out, but they are starting.
Oh, and BTW, this is one of the accounts lapsing. Will take a few more weeks before the 30 day plex is done. Oh, and another thing: I stopped running Incursions weeks BEFORE the nerf, because I could not find the time to block off the contiguous hours required to commit. But I still hate what the soundwave and his null sec allies have done to a large population of the game. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:44:00 -
[711] - Quote
Tessla Coil wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Tessla Coil wrote:
Yeah, you just keep believing the attacks on high sec have no impact on sub rates. And when the numbers are down all summer, you will say "Diablo III and it is summertime".
But when the numbers are down in October, that is when things will get interesting. CCP may finally have to listen to some sane people, rather than the null sec zealot faction, which includes their own ex-goon (or is he still goon) lead designer.
An argument based in unfounded prediction is worth nothing. The data provided does not support your hypothesis, so what do you do? "TROLOLOL WHEN THE DATA DOES SUPPORT MY PREDICTION IN THE FUTURE.". This is not a logical argument, it is a sign of desperation. There is no evidence of subscription rates dropping, yet you claim they will drop. There is evidence that subscription rates are stable, even growing slightly. You dismiss it, and continue with your analysis based on fictional data that will support everything you say come October. Sometimes I wish children had the scientific method stuffed down their throats as they were growing up. Look, you can lie all you want. You can say up is down, black is white. You can say whatever Orwellian thing comes into your null sec propagandist lizard brain. But I know numerous people who are letting subs lapse over Incursions, datacores, L4 mission nerfs, or some combination. Those subs don't drop all at once. They take time to lapse out, but they are starting. Oh, and BTW, this is one of the accounts lapsing. Will take a few more weeks before the 30 day plex is done. Oh, and another thing: I stopped running Incursions weeks BEFORE the nerf, because I could not find the time to block off the contiguous hours required to commit. But I still hate what the soundwave and his null sec allies have done to a large population of the game. Oh hush child, I know plenty of people that are coming back to Eve because of the refocus on war, combat and the high sec isk fountain rebalancing. See, I can use purely anecdotal evidence too.
The fact is I showed data that suggests a steady growth in subscription rates. You have no data, but provide promises of data to come and anecdotal "evidence" mingled with personal sob stories and goon conspiracy theories.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Hanuman Li Tosh
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 00:08:00 -
[712] - Quote
Quote:The fact is I showed data that suggests a steady growth in subscription rates.
The fact is that relatively the same amount of people log onto the server now as in 2010.
No amount of spin can change that. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1951
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 02:38:00 -
[713] - Quote
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:Quote:The fact is I showed data that suggests a steady growth in subscription rates. The fact is that relatively the same amount of people log onto the server now as in 2010. No amount of spin can change that.
The fact is that more people have active subscriptions now than in 2010.
No amount of spin can change that either. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1033
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 10:19:00 -
[714] - Quote
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:Quote:The fact is I showed data that suggests a steady growth in subscription rates. The fact is that relatively the same amount of people log onto the server now as in 2010. No amount of spin can change that. Yeah sorry, as the above poster pointed out I wasn't entirely clear on that. Whilst the peak login rates have only risen slightly, the number of active subscriptions has risen steadily.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:33:00 -
[715] - Quote
So i see Darth has gotten his head up his ass now. well folks maybe we should do a recap
1> 0.0 tears over Incursions and how we were able to make iskies within Empire space. 2> Legion blitz fleet ran VGs within minutes. This is not COOL! 3> Many Felt the payouts compared to risk was not balance.
So CCP put a solution together on this 1> Lets Make the Vanguards tougher. Added a few more ships and must destroy everything except in OTAs you do not need to Eysturs 2> Decrease VG payouts....many GOONs & pets rejoiced. 3> Assaults got some love to. increased Payout and more ships to kill making it longer. 4> HQs got some love to. Increased Payout and longer to do.
Repercusion of Solutions implemented 1> New life in the Incursions. 2> Shield fleets DIEing 3> Legion Blitz no longer blitzing but are considered an ACE tech3 ship 4> Inucursion community decreases in numbers after a week and slowly more over the following 3 weeks. 5> Armor fleets take it easy running the VGs and Assaults. Developed new tactics eventually shared with others. 6> shield fleets still losing ships after #5 is shared with them. 7> Armor Fleet group Born Ara Mob refines tactics getting OTAs down to 8 minutes and VG sites 8 minutes average. 8> Discovered you cannot run OTAs ith any Battlecruiser even with faction mods chance of it popping is too great.
Now there is a rumor that there is a shield group able to run OTAs in 6 minutes and been unable to substantiate this false claim. if you can please step forward and let me know how to contact you i like to know more.
As for the number of players in the incursion community and i mean the numbers are small right now. Someone did point out the obvious. 1>Spring break. need to party 2> Final Exams 3> Avenger Movie. How many seen it more then 4 times now? 4> new exciting movies 5> Diablo III and a few other new gmaes hitting the market 6> the most important one.....SUMMER TIME!!! to go and see the girls in their skimpy outfits and look like drooling morons.lol The number of people logging in at this time of the year is typical drops off picks up in fall but WOAH!!!! MechWarrior Online comes out then too. Should be exciting no matter what happens.
Good luck Folks and have fun |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
193
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 07:18:00 -
[716] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
So CCP put a solution together on this 3> Assaults got some love to. increased Payout and more ships to kill making it longer. 4> HQs got some love to. Increased Payout and longer to do.
Neither payout more
Repercusion of Solutions implemented 1> New life in the Incursions.
Incursions in HI SEC are now dieing untouched. NULL/LO Sec communities are dead. HI sec communities are on life support about to die... An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing!The system's crashing!"-Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1044
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 07:31:00 -
[717] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Incursions in HI SEC are now dieing untouched. NULL/LO Sec communities are dead. HI sec communities are on life support about to die... Please, tell me more about how you aren't repeating yourself.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:25:00 -
[718] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:So they only played the game while Incursions were paying as much as they did? Interesting lack of imagination and adaptability there, will be such a shame to lose those players. It's funny, how all these incursion runners are cancelling their subscriptions and yet the number of online players has remained stable. Look at it again its going down last week Sunday peaked at 47k this week 43km ( hint put your mouse over the graph for specific dates to appear ) A difference of ~4k with two sample points is not a significant variation. To highlight that fact, the Friday night one month ago (the highest point all week, on the 18/03/2012) the login count was 46k. That's a 3k deviation between now and a Friday night one month ago. Or screw it, let's look at a peak in January. The 23rd of January 42k, the 28th? 43k. Etc. And Darth fails hard at analysing data accurately again. This is starting to get embarrassing.
You brought up a graph which has a real negitive slope since the release of Escalation N=28 my comparision of the weekly maximum's which land on Sunday'as so N=4 to simply show how much the standard deviation is increasing for the worse, for a better Confidence Interval we'll want to see N=6 to 8 in the time for N=6 to 8 though it appears that the Incursion communities may well be near dead sadly. Your analysis is falling flat on its face once again Simi... wanna to try to calculate again how many characters live in WH's again while you are at it? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing!The system's crashing!"-Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1045
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:58:00 -
[719] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:You brought up a graph which has a real negitive slope since the release of Escalation N=28 my comparision of the weekly maximum's which land on Sunday'as so N=4 to simply show how much the standard deviation is increasing for the worse, for a better Confidence Interval we'll want to see N=6 to 8 in the time for N=6 to 8 though it appears that the Incursion communities may well be near dead sadly. Your analysis is falling flat on its face once again Simi... wanna to try to calculate again how many characters live in WH's again while you are at it? :notsureifserious:
Ok, sweeping aside the fact that you've obviously just discovered the concept of a confidence interval on google (and used it extremely inappropriately, I might add. Reading up on standard deviation may have been more use to you.), the sample you have so blithely chosen to assign the Nth term to is the weekly peak login. You have that data in front of you, and as I said two samples is not enough to generate any kind of hypothesis as to increases or decreases in player activity or subscriptions.
So, because I forced you to analyse three months of data, or even a months, the data no longer supports your claims. So what do you do? You claim that "for a better confidence interval we'll want to see N=6 to 7 in the time for N=6 to 8".
And again, I'm going to kindly sweep aside the fact that that is one of the dumbest statements I have read all week, and give you the benefit of the doubt. I presume what you meant to say was what you'd like to see is a regular, repeated drop of 6 to 8 thousand players from the previous "high" of 46k?
Of course, this magical data supporting your claim doesn't exist yet, so we just have to take it on faith that all the evidence to the contrary so far is... what exactly? How do you explain lower average login rates in January or December than we have currently, Darth?
Expecting us to dismiss credible evidence and take your claims on faith is not using the evidence to support your claim Darth, that is making stuff up to support your claim.
To reiterate, all we see on the two points you chose is a standard deviation of 3k. Looking back over the weekly peaks for the last year this is nothing out of the ordinary. So there is no negative correlation between escalation's release and login rates, there is no reported drop in subscriptions by CCP and there is no evidence to substantiate any of your claims to the contrary.
Ironically if you'd bothered to learn a little about what interval estimation was you'd have been able to use it to show that 3k is well within the normal limits of deviation for Eve Online's peak login.
/rant over
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Devious Relation
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 09:35:00 -
[720] - Quote
Lets be honest, the ONLY reason CCP nerfed incursions was because they felt it was hurting thier buisness model, THAT is all.
The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better. personaly its just a matter of time till another mmo comes out and im off monocolol and all :D |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1046
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 09:40:00 -
[721] - Quote
Devious Relation wrote:Lets be honest, the ONLY reason CCP nerfed incursions was because they felt it was hurting thier buisness model, THAT is all.
The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better. personaly its just a matter of time till another mmo comes out and im off monocolol and all :D Well, obviously That's the only reason CCP, or any other company for that matter, are motivated to make any changes at all.
If a change isn't good or bad for business, then it can't have a very big impact on the game so why waste developer time on it?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Devious Relation
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 10:58:00 -
[722] - Quote
Devious Relation wrote:The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better.
What i was getting at was, ok sure nerf incursions to curb inflation, but by nerfing 1 aspect without balancing other ways of making ISK they loose players, do it enough times eve will be down to 1 die hard fan with 10 alts.
Other things that need looking at, Tech moons - the ability to make billions without even being logged into the game. Now that is mad. But hey eve is a game you PAY not to play isnt it, with long skill waiting times, and no interest in changing this.
Wormholes - People make as much money if not more if managed correctly than high sec incursions USED to make. This again needs balancing with other aspects. Incursions offer'd far more to eve than wormholes as they made entire communitys accessable to everyone.
My prediction, and please remember i said this. It is only a matter of time before CCP adopt the F2P buisness modle for eve online. The things to back this up are recently failed NeX store, alongside the fact DUST on PS3 will be free to play. Initialy the swap over will create a massive loss in playerbase, shortly followed by the servers being shut down.
dont get me wrong, as a game I love eve, and its sad to see it slowly bleeding to death |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:16:00 -
[723] - Quote
Devious Relation wrote:Devious Relation wrote:The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better. What i was getting at was, ok sure nerf incursions to curb inflation, but by nerfing 1 aspect without balancing other ways of making ISK they loose players, do it enough times eve will be down to 1 die hard fan with 10 alts. Other things that need looking at, Tech moons - the ability to make billions without even being logged into the game. Now that is mad. But hey eve is a game you PAY not to play isnt it, with long skill waiting times, and no interest in changing this. Wormholes - People make as much money if not more if managed correctly than high sec incursions USED to make. This again needs balancing with other aspects. Incursions offer'd far more to eve than wormholes as they made entire communitys accessable to everyone. My prediction, and please remember i said this. It is only a matter of time before CCP adopt the F2P buisness modle for eve online. The things to back this up are recently failed NeX store, alongside the fact DUST on PS3 will be free to play. Initialy the swap over will create a massive loss in playerbase, shortly followed by the servers being shut down. dont get me wrong, as a game I love eve, and its sad to see it slowly bleeding to death other pve activities are fine, the only thing broken is incursion that's why CCP fixed it, not nerf
wh dont have concord, that's why it pays out more, hope you know this.
and anyone can go into wh to make isk, the only drawback is do you have balls to do it??
EDIT: if eve didn't die back in incarna, it won't in any near future, you carebears arent center of the universe |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1049
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 13:16:00 -
[724] - Quote
Devious Relation wrote:Devious Relation wrote:The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better. What i was getting at was, ok sure nerf incursions to curb inflation, but by nerfing 1 aspect without balancing other ways of making ISK they loose players, do it enough times eve will be down to 1 die hard fan with 10 alts. I think you misunderstood the motivation behind the incursion nerf, it wasn't to curb inflation. It was risk/reward rebalancing.
Devious Relation wrote:Other things that need looking at, Tech moons - the ability to make billions without even being logged into the game. Now that is mad. But hey eve is a game you PAY not to play isnt it, with long skill waiting times, and no interest in changing this. Yeah, tech moons need looking at. Ring mining sounds interesting, but this isn't the thread for discussing it.
And even if it was, try and take control of a tech moon without being logged into the game. Please, I implore you. In fact I beg you, take control of one and hand it over to me, just to prove how easy it is.
Devious Relation wrote:Wormholes - People make as much money if not more if managed correctly than high sec incursions USED to make. This again needs balancing with other aspects. Incursions offer'd far more to eve than wormholes as they made entire communitys accessable to everyone. So what? It's wormholes, more people run wormholes than run incursions and there are entire corporations and alliances that literally never leave them.
Not to mention the fact that there is a distinct lack of local chat, concord and predictable transit in wormholes. Let alone bubbles! And have you seen the latest change? Warp bubbles effect you on your emergency warp now, so if you get camped into a wormhole and they have combats out, you're going to die when you log back in.
Devious Relation wrote:My prediction, and please remember i said this. It is only a matter of time before CCP adopt the F2P buisness modle for eve online. The things to back this up are recently failed NeX store, alongside the fact DUST on PS3 will be free to play. Initialy the swap over will create a massive loss in playerbase, shortly followed by the servers being shut down. dont get me wrong, as a game I love eve, and its sad to see it slowly bleeding to death How is it bleeding to death when subscriptions are going up steadily? They're at 410k at the moment.
The only dip we've had recently was with Incarna, and the "pay to win" fiasco. Pay to win, by the way, is a fundamental core concept of F2P games. So basically your prediction is that CCP go for Incarna round two? Sorry but saying that is a long shot is an understatement.
Also, my client just finished updating. Woop. And the server is offline Fuuuuuuuuuuuu CCP
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:51:00 -
[725] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
So CCP put a solution together on this 3> Assaults got some love to. increased Payout and more ships to kill making it longer. 4> HQs got some love to. Increased Payout and longer to do.
Neither payout more
Repercusion of Solutions implemented 1> New life in the Incursions.
Incursions in HI SEC are now dieing untouched. NULL/LO Sec communities are dead. HI sec communities are on life support about to die...
Well darth i hate to say but it looks like your only life support is Eve. have you not noticed the warm weather outside? the ladies wearing their usuall tight outfits showing off their hot bods? or if you have kids have you not concider a family function like camping seeing the grandparents and so on and on?
Well others seem to have done this. A small group of incursion runners were makin plans to go play diablo 3. hell we know that this will go on for about a month or two. Vacation time to hang with their kids and see family abroad.
this is typical seasonal behavior for many they will be back. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:43:00 -
[726] - Quote
Devious Relation wrote:Lets be honest, the ONLY reason CCP nerfed incursions was because they felt it was hurting thier buisness model, THAT is all.
The sooner they realise they cant alter 1 aspect of the game without balancing others the better. personaly its just a matter of time till another mmo comes out and im off monocolol and all :D
Dr E said himself that Incursions are/were a success and that there was a balancing issue with Vanguards. What CCP DEV's did was completely unbalance the Incursions so that the communites in NULL/LO are DEAD & HI SEC Incursion communites have been more then decimated. Why the Assaults were actually changed in opposite of what the Escalation features page said they would be shows even more disconnect IMHO http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/21/jesters-trek-farmville/ EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:19:00 -
[727] - Quote
i am starting to think that this thread needs a little common sense, a dash of logic, and spoonful of reasoning |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 07:18:00 -
[728] - Quote
CCP seems to be more busy with the screw ups of Inferno's effed up Unified Inventory right now. Pretty much what I predicted although I thought Inferno's problems with Crimewatch was going to be a much bigger issue then the Unified Inventory would be ( maybe the exploights just haven't surfaced yet with the general rage I'm seeing in General Discussions? ).
The clock has ticked over a month since the Escalation nerfs & with summer comming up the falling PCU looks to be taking a toll ( jeez has Eve got a sustained 30k day since the patch not including the ghosts in Jita & other system local bug? )
I've FC'd a few OTA's but they are a lost cause right now IMHO & everyone knows it & are pretty much ignoring them
NULL & LO SEC communities have died & HI SEC community will not be able to kill 1/2 the Incursions that pop up this week.
In less then a month most will put a fork in Incursions if nothing changes I guess. Sorry to see so many non solo PvE communites die EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
206
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:32:00 -
[729] - Quote
Before the High Sec community dies off in 1-2 week how about fixing the OTA's ( Override Tranfer Arrays )of he Vanguards and the NCN ( Nation Consolitation Networks) better yet just get rid of them for the next two weeks while figuring out a replacement for both of them.
So what are the numbers of pilots still doing Incursions like CCP? The silence is deafening.
EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
sweetrock
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 08:35:00 -
[730] - Quote
Seriously over nerfed. Reminds me of the mission nurf.
CCP ran over incursions, backed over them, then proceeded to get out of the vehicle and beat them with a hammer. 18 days left on subscription, and jsut to prove a point I have over 25bil isk over my accounts and I WONT be purchasing plex just on principle.
Fix the game, keep customers. Keep going down this route and it will certainly be a neiche game |
|
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
516
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:08:00 -
[731] - Quote
Alright, who invited the necromancer?
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1094
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 18:25:00 -
[732] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Alright, who invited the necromancer? Meh, it's Darth. He revives every incursion thread once every one or two days.
I presume he just has them all bookmarked and scrolls down the list copy pasting his terribad arguments.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 05:51:00 -
[733] - Quote
the TDF blacklist update has become quite infequent. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 08:04:00 -
[734] - Quote
Darth still on his rant. GOON forum alts going yay over the nerf that screwed everyone who runs the incursions. Time for a bottle of vodka. i only see my headache disappearing about halfway through it.
But seriously. the incursions could still use some tweaking and I only hope that they keep the Golden Screwdriver away from soundwave this time. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
575
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 10:16:00 -
[735] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Darth still on his rant. GOON forum alts going yay over the nerf that screwed everyone who runs the incursions. Time for a bottle of vodka. i only see my headache disappearing about halfway through it.
But seriously. the incursions could still use some tweaking and I only hope that they keep the Golden Screwdriver away from soundwave this time.
Appearently it's CCP Bettik that's doing the Incursions. Just read the OP, a dev that doesn't communicate with the community, put on balancing Incursions. Epic fail CCP, epic fail.
edit: and it's not like CCP Greyscale as a decent track-record when it comes to balancing stuff either... Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Shobon Welp
Band of Brothers
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 10:44:00 -
[736] - Quote
Curious that everyone was talking about how they loved running highsec Incursions because of the sense of community and the opportunities for developing teamwork, the fun of co-operative PvE, the challenge. Then the amount of money flowing into their wallets gets reduced and all those factors above fly out of the window because the only reason 90% of the highsec incursion runners were really taking part was purely the ISK/hr factor. |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:02:00 -
[737] - Quote
Shobon Welp wrote:Curious that everyone was talking about how they loved running highsec Incursions because of the sense of community and the opportunities for developing teamwork, the fun of co-operative PvE, the challenge. Then the amount of money flowing into their wallets gets reduced and all those factors above fly out of the window because the only reason 90% of the highsec incursion runners were really taking part was purely the ISK/hr factor.
So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. I'm seriously considering dropping one account , because I just dont need it anymore and im sure others are too. |
Shobon Welp
Band of Brothers
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 11:32:00 -
[738] - Quote
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Curious that everyone was talking about how they loved running highsec Incursions because of the sense of community and the opportunities for developing teamwork, the fun of co-operative PvE, the challenge. Then the amount of money flowing into their wallets gets reduced and all those factors above fly out of the window because the only reason 90% of the highsec incursion runners were really taking part was purely the ISK/hr factor. So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation.
Not our fault that your much vaunted 'challenging co-operative intelligent teamwork PvE' was just another way to farm trillions in near perfect safety and now that it has been corrected all your friends have bailed. |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:06:00 -
[739] - Quote
Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Curious that everyone was talking about how they loved running highsec Incursions because of the sense of community and the opportunities for developing teamwork, the fun of co-operative PvE, the challenge. Then the amount of money flowing into their wallets gets reduced and all those factors above fly out of the window because the only reason 90% of the highsec incursion runners were really taking part was purely the ISK/hr factor. So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. Not our fault that your much vaunted 'challenging co-operative intelligent teamwork PvE' was just another way to farm trillions in near perfect safety and now that it has been corrected all your friends have bailed.
and less people enjoying the game is a good thing apparently a good "correction" For many making lots of money and buying cool stuff was entertaining. |
Shobon Welp
Band of Brothers
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 12:22:00 -
[740] - Quote
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:and less people enjoying the game is a good thing apparently a good "correction" For many making lots of money and buying cool stuff was entertaining. At least you're not even bothering to deny it now. |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:32:00 -
[741] - Quote
Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Curious So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation.
Bull the entertainment value has been SERIOUSLY screwed by the making of ALL Vanguard sites and Assault sites without exception more tedious OTA's being the most tedious and stacking the worst ( almst as bad as the original NCN's which were undoable due to logi not being let in the right side of the gates ) EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 18:40:00 -
[742] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Curious So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. Bull the entertainment value has been SERIOUSLY screwed by the making of ALL Vanguard sites and Assault sites without exception more tedious OTA's being the most tedious and stacking the worst ( almst as bad as the original NCN's which were undoable due to logi not being let in the right side of the gates ) Apparently to you 'entertainment' means 'endless farming'. Incursions still need to be nerfed more. Cut payouts by 50% for all ships worth more than 10m. |
Andy Landen
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 00:23:00 -
[743] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:
So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue.
No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. Bull the entertainment value has been SERIOUSLY screwed by the making of ALL Vanguard sites and Assault sites without exception more tedious OTA's being the most tedious and stacking the worst ( almst as bad as the original NCN's which were undoable due to logi not being let in the right side of the gates ) Apparently to you 'entertainment' means 'endless farming'.
And entertainment to others is 'endless' gate camping. Let each enjoy Eve how they wish. There is plenty to enjoy in sleepers/incursion pve content. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 01:03:00 -
[744] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:KrakizBad wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:
So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue.
No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. Bull the entertainment value has been SERIOUSLY screwed by the making of ALL Vanguard sites and Assault sites without exception more tedious OTA's being the most tedious and stacking the worst ( almst as bad as the original NCN's which were undoable due to logi not being let in the right side of the gates ) Apparently to you 'entertainment' means 'endless farming'. And entertainment to others is 'endless' gate camping. Let each enjoy Eve how they wish. There is plenty to enjoy in sleepers/incursion pve content. You still can, you're just getting an appropriate amount of isk for the risk you take. Enjoy. Incursions still need to be nerfed more. Cut payouts by 50% for all ships worth more than 10m. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 01:44:00 -
[745] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:KrakizBad wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:
So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue.
No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. Bull the entertainment value has been SERIOUSLY screwed by the making of ALL Vanguard sites and Assault sites without exception more tedious OTA's being the most tedious and stacking the worst ( almst as bad as the original NCN's which were undoable due to logi not being let in the right side of the gates ) Apparently to you 'entertainment' means 'endless farming'. And entertainment to others is 'endless' gate camping. Let each enjoy Eve how they wish. There is plenty to enjoy in sleepers/incursion pve content. where the f does this guy come from, are you one of the incursion bears?? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
386
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 03:36:00 -
[746] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:You still can, you're just getting an appropriate amount of isk for the risk you take. Enjoy.
Not that I want to take their side or anything: But lowsec incursions were pretty high risk when pirates were around and they aren't worth doing at all anymore, not due to the payout changes: But to the changes to the incursions themselves/how they spawned etc.
Pretty much once you have OTA poisoning it's ruined for the day, so by say: noon eastern time. |
Kiraisha
Unleet Industries LLC Lunar Industries Partnership
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:14:00 -
[747] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Andy Landen wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Shobon Welp wrote:[quote=Jita Joe2 Jones]
So? tritanium is 5.86 today and a plex is still 480 mil, so screwing 1000's of people out of their entertainment hasnt alleviated the supposed inflation issue. No 'entertainment' has been screwed, only isk generation. And entertainment to others is 'endless' gate camping. Let each enjoy Eve how they wish. There is plenty to enjoy in sleepers/incursion pve content. You still can, you're just getting an appropriate amount of isk for the risk you take. Enjoy.
Good Sir,
From the looks of things you seem to be saying that a proper gate camp has much risk, where I would then question your bias. A large portion of the forum community is nullsec circle jerkers who were jealous that hi sec was making isk. It is indeed the truth that Incursions were the LEAST contributing faucet, ratting being the highest, as stated by CCP Soundwave himself in an interview with tentron. I'd like to firmly and politely point out that you nullsec ***** are greedy donkeys who would amass a grade A rooster call to **** on everyone's morning if their mornings have been in any way pleasurable and/or productive like yours. The DEVs want people in LS and Null? Well, let me tell you (the community) that they (the DEVs) have just contradicted that goal. The current incursion changes closed doors to enjoyable profit to hi sec dwellers, in turn creating less chance for them to risk their ships for fun in LS as well as no capital and/or far less interest in Null due to the immaturity exacerbating from that specific area. Not to mention most people went inactive/less active. Good job null sec, enjoy the same partners you've had for circle jerking since the day you moved out there.
Respectfully, Kira |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1669
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:25:00 -
[748] - Quote
Kiraisha wrote:The current incursion changes closed doors to enjoyable profit to hi sec dwellers, in turn creating less chance for them to risk their ships for fun in LS as well as no capital and/or far less interest in Null due to the immaturity exacerbating from that specific area. Not to mention most people went inactive/less active. Good job null sec, enjoy the same partners you've had for circle jerking since the day you moved out there.
Before there were incursions, I burned out on missions. My corp was in highsec and I was loyal to them, so I sought new ways to make isk without wandering too far. I discovered exploration. It was interesting and variable, and more profitable than missions unless you were a hardcore L4 blitzer. Then I stumbled into wormholes and made billions. Spending every day in and out of wormholes taught me how to not be like you. I became accustomed to risk and unpredictable (sometimes absent) rewards. I'm still consuming my reserves from those days, and it's been almost a year since I changed occupations.
There's isk out there. You just have to be daring. Stop being a weekend warrior where you take a ship into lowsec when you've got a little free time, and LIVE ON THE EDGE. It makes everything better. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
215
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:46:00 -
[749] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:Seriously over nerfed. Reminds me of the mission nurf.
CCP ran over incursions, backed over them, then proceeded to get out of the vehicle and beat them with a hammer. 18 days left on subscription, and jsut to prove a point I have over 25bil isk over my accounts and I WONT be purchasing plex just on principle.
Fix the game, keep customers. Keep going down this route and it will certainly be a neiche game
I am hearing/seeing unsubbing sentiment all over the place. CCP's glacial reactions just turns snowballs into avalanches as they get bogged down by the next Inferno bug/fix. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
71
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:51:00 -
[750] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I am hearing/seeing unsubbing sentiment all over the place. Good news! Despite what you are witnessing and hearing Eve is close to breaking its all-time subscriber record. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1177
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:17:00 -
[751] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I am hearing/seeing unsubbing sentiment all over the place. CCP's glacial reactions just turns snowballs into avalanches as they get bogged down by the next Inferno bug/fix. Probably because you only ever talk to other incursion care bears, who are mad at their ISK fountain getting toned down.
The rest of us are pretty happy right now.
*Also, this:
Alexandra Delarge wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:I am hearing/seeing unsubbing sentiment all over the place. Good news! Despite what you are witnessing and hearing Eve is close to breaking its all-time subscriber record.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1177
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:25:00 -
[752] - Quote
Kiraisha wrote:Good Sir,
From the looks of things you seem to be saying that a proper gate camp has much risk, where I would then question your bias. A large portion of the forum community is nullsec circle jerkers who were jealous that hi sec was making isk. It is indeed the truth that Incursions were the LEAST contributing faucet, ratting being the highest, as stated by CCP Soundwave himself in an interview with tentron. Bounties are the highest, that doesn't mean ratting. That means bounties from:
- High, low and null sec mission running.
- High, low and null sec exploration.
- Low and null sec anomalies.
- High, low and null sec belt ratting.
These professions span an enormous demographic of Eve online's population, and yet incursions which were done only by a tiny percentage managed to generate a third of that total income.
Kiraisha wrote:I'd like to firmly and politely point out that you nullsec ***** are greedy donkeys who would amass a grade A rooster call to **** on everyone's morning if their mornings have been in any way pleasurable and/or productive like yours. The DEVs want people in LS and Null? Well, let me tell you (the community) that they (the DEVs) have just contradicted that goal. Most of us don't really care if you come to low sec or null sec or not, stay in high sec and make virtually no ISK for all I care, as long as you are making virtually no ISK.
This isn't some vindictive "play Eve my way" campaign, this is us understanding the concept of mudflation and you not understanding the concept of mudflation.
Kiraisha wrote:The current incursion changes closed doors to enjoyable profit to hi sec dwellers, in turn creating less chance for them to risk their ships for fun in LS as well as no capital and/or far less interest in Null due to the immaturity exacerbating from that specific area. Not to mention most people went inactive/less active. Oh look, another person who thinks PvE and PvP should be separated like some themepark MMO.
Protip: you are not entitled to effortless ISK and assets. You want to earn lots of stuff in little time? Work for it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
223
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:15:00 -
[753] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:KrakizBad wrote:You still can, you're just getting an appropriate amount of isk for the risk you take. Enjoy. Not that I want to take their side or anything: But lowsec incursions were pretty high risk when pirates were around and they aren't worth doing at all anymore, not due to the payout changes: But to the changes to the incursions themselves/how they spawned etc. Pretty much once you have OTA poisoning it's ruined for the day, so by say: noon eastern time.
The lo/null sec Incursions beore the Incursion NERF were infrequently finished ( believe i or not the lo sec Incursions were completed more often then the NULL SEC ones ) CCP KILLED both of these communities dead & since CCP Affinity closed her thread in Missions & Complexes board not jack has been said about it. CSM7 summit the CSM's didn' bring it up at all & CCP did Goes to show how CSM's are in it or nobody except their respective alliances. At least Mittens brought up the Incursions in stating they couldn't be botted like L4's or other missions before he was thrown under the bus ( like it seems to me Incursions were thrown under the bus ) Unintended Bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1190
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:24:00 -
[754] - Quote
If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
224
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:04:00 -
[755] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now.
lol Like any Incursion runner could hope to approach the Tech moon Alliance Director's wallets.
=================================
Sill waiting for some stats of the payouts last month versus bounties & the rest of the ISK faucets CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:06:00 -
[756] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now. lol Like any Incursion runner could hope to approach the Tech moon Alliance Director's wallets. All that ISk came from other faucets though, so who should we blame for that?
Well, everybody in a T2 ship, that's who. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1197
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:40:00 -
[757] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now. lol Like any Incursion runner could hope to approach the Tech moon Alliance Director's wallets. ================================= Sill waiting for some stats of the payouts last month versus bounties & the rest of the ISK faucets lol, like any incursion "community" would ever be organised enough to take or hold a tech moon.
(although seeing a fleet of machs and vindis get wiped by drakes would be priceless.)
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
720
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:54:00 -
[758] - Quote
Kiraisha wrote:The current incursion changes closed doors to enjoyable profit to hi sec dwellers, in turn creating less chance for them to risk their ships for fun in LS as well as no capital and/or far less interest in Null due to the immaturity exacerbating from that specific area. Not to mention most people went inactive/less active. Good job null sec, enjoy the same partners you've had for circle jerking since the day you moved out there. Clearly you only needed to save a few more billion to move out to null and take risks. Clearly.
You're also good at reading, as you were able to divine my feelings about gatecamping risks from someone else's post.
Stay in empire, we don't want you anyway. Incursions still need to be nerfed more. Cut payouts by 50% for all ships worth more than 10m. |
sweetrock
State War Academy Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 19:02:00 -
[759] - Quote
What im finding really really funny is this whole elitest null illusion crap. Lets be frank, the only reason you are in a null alliance is because there is safety in numbers, much like zebra's. If your so awesome go do some solo pvp, and by solo pvp i mean not ganking hulks, not baiting missioners, not can flipping noobs... So whats left, oh wait I just cover'd 99% of the pvp on eve that isnt mass blob fests. Oh neutral RR is also faggetry so lets rule that out.
So basicaly, the only time people on this sespit of a game are willing to pvp and risk thier ships/isk is when they believe they have a large enough advantage to almost guarentee a win. All you nullzebra's bashing on highsec bears just take a second to look in the mirror.
P.S incursions way over nerfed CCP SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1198
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:46:00 -
[760] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:What im finding really really funny is this whole elitest null illusion crap. Lets be frank, the only reason you are in a null alliance is because there is safety in numbers, much like zebra's. If your so awesome go do some solo pvp, and by solo pvp i mean not ganking hulks, not baiting missioners, not can flipping noobs... So whats left, oh wait I just cover'd 99% of the pvp on eve that isnt mass blob fests. Oh neutral RR is also faggetry so lets rule that out.
So basicaly, the only time people on this sespit of a game are willing to pvp and risk thier ships/isk is when they believe they have a large enough advantage to almost guarentee a win. All you nullzebra's bashing on highsec bears just take a second to look in the mirror.
P.S incursions way over nerfed CCP SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Good thing none of us engage in solo PvP, or that rant would look really silly.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
Shobon Welp
Band of Brothers
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 10:28:00 -
[761] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:What im finding really really funny is this whole elitest null illusion crap. Lets be frank, the only reason you are in a null alliance is because there is safety in numbers, much like zebra's. If your so awesome go do some solo pvp, and by solo pvp i mean not ganking hulks, not baiting missioners, not can flipping noobs... So whats left, oh wait I just cover'd 99% of the pvp on eve that isnt mass blob fests. Oh neutral RR is also faggetry so lets rule that out.
So basicaly, the only time people on this sespit of a game are willing to pvp and risk thier ships/isk is when they believe they have a large enough advantage to almost guarentee a win. All you nullzebra's bashing on highsec bears just take a second to look in the mirror.
P.S incursions way over nerfed CCP SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX That's a long winded way of saying ablooobloobloobloo |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 11:17:00 -
[762] - Quote
Un Subbed 2 accounts yesterday , now that my main isn't incursioning he can handle everything alone. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
553
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 12:28:00 -
[763] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:this sespit of a game
No body is forcing you to play.
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 13:06:00 -
[764] - Quote
In the holly name of a bad economical system and market manipulation lets nerf everything.
-make it moon materials deplete in 1 week timer and randomly spawn everywhere in new Eden, from high sec to WH-space
-all ore type scarcity, make them rare and spawn everywhere around new Eden randomly and with huge timers, there's far too much resources no one takes because only tech moons are interesting
-reduce sleepers loot of 50%, far too easy to make billions in wh's
-increase tech 2 ships mineral materials of 20%
-base POCOs tax 15% for everyone with no distinction
-reduce null sec and wh planetary production of 30%
-reduce null sec and low sec rats bounties of 20%, increase rats tank and dmg
-change null sec force projection: remove titan bridge ability, remove JB's, increase Black Ops bridge ability for 20% at 15% cost of fuel
-increase POS modules PG/CPU consumption
-Increase null sec industry slots, remove all materials and slots for boosters in null and wh and put them in low sec
-limit wh capital ships possibility, only C6 and no super capital or titan.
Now this would make a better Eve for everyone.
Edit: forgot the most important stuff
-Make market tax/fees proportional to isk amounts transaction, the higher isk transaction is the higher tax goes up to 75% of profits.
Take isk away from the game, there's far too much easily done with market operations, this needs a huge nerfhamer brb |
Jita Joe2 Jones
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 13:10:00 -
[765] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:In the holly name of a bad economical system and market manipulation lets nerf everything.
-make it moon materials deplete in 1 week timer and randomly spawn everywhere in new Eden, from high sec to WH-space
-all ore type scarcity, make them rare and spawn everywhere around new Eden randomly and with huge timers, there's far too much resources no one takes because only tech moons are interesting
-reduce sleepers loot of 50%, far too easy to make billions in wh's
-increase tech 2 ships mineral materials of 20%
-base POCOs tax 15% for everyone with no distinction
-reduce null sec and wh planetary production of 30%
-reduce null sec and low sec rats bounties of 20%, increase rats tank and dmg
-change null sec force projection: remove titan bridge ability, remove JB's, increase Black Ops bridge ability for 20% at 15% cost of fuel
-increase POS modules PG/CPU consumption
-Increase null sec industry slots, remove all materials and slots for boosters in null and wh and put them in low sec
-limit wh capital ships possibility, only C6 and no super capital or titan.
Now this would make a better Eve for everyone.
Ya lets nerf everything and make sure everything is "balanced" then we can change the name to Asteroids, and all be equal little comrades! |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1201
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 13:20:00 -
[766] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:In the holly name of a bad economical system and market manipulation lets nerf everything.
-make it moon materials deplete in 1 week timer and randomly spawn everywhere in new Eden, from high sec to WH-space
-all ore type scarcity, make them rare and spawn everywhere around new Eden randomly and with huge timers, there's far too much resources no one takes because only tech moons are interesting
-reduce sleepers loot of 50%, far too easy to make billions in wh's
-increase tech 2 ships mineral materials of 20%
-base POCOs tax 15% for everyone with no distinction
-reduce null sec and wh planetary production of 30%
-reduce null sec and low sec rats bounties of 20%, increase rats tank and dmg
-change null sec force projection: remove titan bridge ability, remove JB's, increase Black Ops bridge ability for 20% at 15% cost of fuel
-increase POS modules PG/CPU consumption
-Increase null sec industry slots, remove all materials and slots for boosters in null and wh and put them in low sec
-limit wh capital ships possibility, only C6 and no super capital or titan.
Now this would make a better Eve for everyone.
Edit: forgot the most important stuff
-Make market tax/fees proportional to isk amounts transaction, the higher isk transaction is the higher tax goes up to 75% of profits.
Take isk away from the game, there's far too much easily done with market operations, this needs a huge nerfhamer Sounds like someone got hit with the nerf bat, would you like me to ring the whaambulance?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 16:52:00 -
[767] - Quote
Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec
CCP HIRED Mittani
Expect this soon
|
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 17:05:00 -
[768] - Quote
Incursions would be more interesting and in line with the backstory, if the incursions systems became lowsec until the sanshas were driven away.
It would also be cool if the incursions spread to neighboring systems if left unattended. Captain Kirk didn't stay in hisec.-á
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
192
|
Posted - 2012.06.09 17:05:00 -
[769] - Quote
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec CCP HIRED Mittani Expect this soon
Check the date. The article was dated April 1. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
78
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 10:05:00 -
[770] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:EVE Roy Mustang wrote:Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec CCP HIRED Mittani Expect this soon Check the date. The article was dated April 1.
Alot a folks would leave Eve. besides was a good april fools joke |
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
174
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 11:14:00 -
[771] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Sounds like someone got hit with the nerf bat, would you like me to ring the whaambulance?
You did not understood 1/10 of the post but most of all the idea behind, doesn't matter, someday you'll be educated enough or intelligent enough to understand it
brb |
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:16:00 -
[772] - Quote
I find it odd how Concord can own any number of ships committing illegal aggression within a few seconds while in a high sec incursion, but the sansha ships are left untouched, despite the bounties on their heads. With how powerful Concord ships and forces are, it is a complete mystery how sansha could establish a high sec incursion. While it would make more sense if the incursion systems security dropped to low sec, it would not make sense how sansha could best Concord but die in droves to the very players who are easily owned within seconds by Concord. High sec incursions have done a lot for Eve and teaching the high sec players how to work together in pvp style fleets minus points and a few other critical elements. Their presence in the face of Concord simply makes me scratch my head and wonder, wth.
That said, if those systems were Concord jammed so that concord could not jump their forces in AND the systems were made into low sec systems temporarily, CCP may have to deal with carriers and dreads entering via whs or being built in systems which will later rejoin the ranks of high sec. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1206
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 04:12:00 -
[773] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Sounds like someone got hit with the nerf bat, would you like me to ring the whaambulance? You did not understood 1/10 of the post nor most of all the idea behind, doesn't matter, someday you'll be educated enough or intelligent enough to understand it No, it was just a particularly bad post, and I couldn't be bothered to write one of my normal posts explaining why.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
230
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 06:24:00 -
[774] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now. lol Like any Incursion runner could hope to approach the Tech moon Alliance Director's wallets. All that ISk came from other faucets though, so who should we blame for that? Well, everybody in a T2 ship, that's who.
Lets just see when CCP finally is forced to reveal the extent of the Dron/Incursion/Meta0 NERFs in the forms of real stats I guess. Maybe they can't really be forced but at some point the numbers will bubble up. Be interesting I imagine theISK faucet numbers are thesame & mineral/alloy numbers are 20-40% less. Take the typical summer deflation in account if there is still inflation then the real equivalent numbers are off the charts
http://memegenerator.net/instance/21816812 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1207
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 07:52:00 -
[775] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Disregard That wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:If you put half as much effort into adapting as you do into whining on the forums you'd probably be one of the richest players in Eve by now. lol Like any Incursion runner could hope to approach the Tech moon Alliance Director's wallets. All that ISk came from other faucets though, so who should we blame for that? Well, everybody in a T2 ship, that's who. Lets just see when CCP finally is forced to reveal the extent of the Dron/Incursion/Meta0 NERFs in the forms of real stats I guess. Maybe they can't really be forced but at some point the numbers will bubble up. Be interesting I imagine theISK faucet numbers are thesame & mineral/alloy numbers are 20-40% less. Take the typical summer deflation in account if there is still inflation then the real equivalent numbers are off the charts And in the meantime you're going to use the argument: "CCP HAVNT RELEESED STATZ, THERFUR STATS SUPORT MY ARGEWMENT"
We know Darth, you made this very clear 20 something pages ago.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
233
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 05:55:00 -
[776] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:Seriously over nerfed. Reminds me of the mission nurf.
CCP ran over incursions, backed over them, then proceeded to get out of the vehicle and beat them with a hammer. 18 days left on subscription, and jsut to prove a point I have over 25bil isk over my accounts and I WONT be purchasing plex just on principle.
Fix the game, keep customers. Keep going down this route and it will certainly be a neiche game
Don't expect anything soon CCP Soundwave's last DEV blog pretty much confirmed all CCP is fixing is the Beta test of a UI which was forced onto all of Eve and the last seris of fixes for something that was not broken. The day CCP ixes don't suck is the day they start fixing Vaccum cleaners. ( LOL see what the FW 'fix' did to the Amarr? Looks like 8 day old Minmatar characters are making almost as much as Incursion runners were by speedtanking complexes for LP ) http://memegenerator.net/instance/21816812 |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
233
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 06:14:00 -
[777] - Quote
double post http://memegenerator.net/instance/21816812 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1021
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 07:02:00 -
[778] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:EVE Roy Mustang wrote:Gorongo Frostfyr wrote:delete highsec CCP HIRED Mittani Expect this soon Check the date. The article was dated April 1. Spoiling it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Rukia Taika
Dueces Wyld Jokers Wild.
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 08:24:00 -
[779] - Quote
I know this has been said before somewhere in this thread as well as other threads. I think its something folks need to be reminded once again and i get the feeling i should keep it simple for for some of the folks here to understand
CCP comes out with Awesome new content that the PVE players will enjoy. We being the players take the following steps 1> Read up on what they are bringing out focus to play with. 2> Check the Holy Bible aka, Mission guides. read up on it there and look at some of the disinformation. (they making us think) 3> New Content Deployed many Bugs.err.. I mean features 4> Get a few pilots together to go try it out 5> get blown up 6> Work on tactics and strategy planning 7> Implement new tactics 8> repeat steps 4 to 7 as needed 9> got the tactics figured out time to refine 10> PVP pilots whine 11> CCP nerfs new content 12> Players go back to steps 4 to 9
The thing is its not broken. We are adapting to the changes faster then others and sharing the new fun info with others. Its time for you kids to get your big boy pants on, and move on.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
237
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 19:17:00 -
[780] - Quote
I'm sorry but the Incursion changes ( rollbacks ) announced in http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880 won't address the root of the problem: the new extremely unbalance Override Transfer Array (OTA) sites Until the OTA's are changed the Vanguards will stay as imbalanced as a elephant and an infant on a see saw. Here I think it was said best by another:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:the upcoming changes do not fix the main issue. -making a little bit less isk is not a game breaker -making the influence bar move a little bit slower is not a game breaker
OTA's are the game breaker. It's sad to see 4-6 OTA's just sitting there in a couple of systems because nobody wants to run them. Tweak OTA's so they are more inline with the other VG sites, leave the isk/influence bar where they are at now and I believe that will make most of the people happy
Although I disagree on one point with Lyron: I think that the Influence bar buff needs to be changed for the NULL/LO sec Incursions for those communities to come back because of the logisitcs issues they face http://memegenerator.net/instance/21816812 |
|
sweetrock
State War Academy Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 07:44:00 -
[781] - Quote
Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. |
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 12:59:00 -
[782] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. I was wondering why getting fleets going was taking so long and why so few people were doing them these days. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1234
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 13:03:00 -
[783] - Quote
sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. Just quit already and stop hanging around on forums threatening to quit and necroing incursion threads.
You had your isk fountain turned off, CCP are still looking at it. Deal with it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:21:00 -
[784] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. Just quit already and stop hanging around on forums threatening to quit and necroing incursion threads. You had your isk fountain turned off, CCP are still looking at it. Deal with it. GOON pet go back to your corner. You have no idea what you talking about when most of the isk earned in game is from BOUNTIES! and that Empire incursion running was a small portion of it. you null bears are still butt hurt over the 0.0 incursion that spawn in your territory and have no idea how to deal with them. But you come to empire and run them |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1234
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 07:28:00 -
[785] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. Just quit already and stop hanging around on forums threatening to quit and necroing incursion threads. You had your isk fountain turned off, CCP are still looking at it. Deal with it. GOON pet go back to your corner. You have no idea what you talking about when most of the isk earned in game is from BOUNTIES! and that Empire incursion running was a small portion of it. you null bears are still butt hurt over the 0.0 incursion that spawn in your territory and have no idea how to deal with them. But you come to empire and run them Bounties come from high sec, low sec and null sec mission running, belt ratting, anomalies and exploration. Unlike incursion income statistics it is not something derived from a single profession primarily in a single region of space.
As for me being a "null bear", I really am not.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 17:14:00 -
[786] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. Just quit already and stop hanging around on forums threatening to quit and necroing incursion threads. You had your isk fountain turned off, CCP are still looking at it. Deal with it. GOON pet go back to your corner. You have no idea what you talking about when most of the isk earned in game is from BOUNTIES! and that Empire incursion running was a small portion of it. you null bears are still butt hurt over the 0.0 incursion that spawn in your territory and have no idea how to deal with them. But you come to empire and run them Bounties come from high sec, low sec and null sec mission running, belt ratting, anomalies and exploration. Unlike incursion income statistics it is not something derived from a single profession primarily in a single region of space. As for me being a "null bear", I really am not.
the thing is that you hear so an so is making blah amount and before you know it its a huge problem. yeah i agree that incursion needed some tweaking but just happy that they rollin back on the changes they made. honestly i can do the same amount of isk making running Haven/Sanctum in a carrier. Gets rather boring when no one is around to chat with or chase. and the other null bears not willing to run the incursions in their space when it pops up. well ~A~ did but made no money cause no one would listen to them,. oh well |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1237
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 17:30:00 -
[787] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:sweetrock wrote:Bringing this back to the front page. Incursions are terrible now, CCP swang, missed and destroyed the wall behind. Totally over nerfed. Sites take 3 times longer, the risk is far too high for the rewards.
Who the hell wants to sign in and WAIT a hour or 2 to finda fleet, run 2 sites then have someone leave because they waited so long. Its a JOKE. INCURSIONS ARE DEAD end of.
WTF is this BS i read about -10% to VG payouts. HAVENT YOU DONE ENOUGH, talk about twisting the knife. Just quit already and stop hanging around on forums threatening to quit and necroing incursion threads. You had your isk fountain turned off, CCP are still looking at it. Deal with it. GOON pet go back to your corner. You have no idea what you talking about when most of the isk earned in game is from BOUNTIES! and that Empire incursion running was a small portion of it. you null bears are still butt hurt over the 0.0 incursion that spawn in your territory and have no idea how to deal with them. But you come to empire and run them Bounties come from high sec, low sec and null sec mission running, belt ratting, anomalies and exploration. Unlike incursion income statistics it is not something derived from a single profession primarily in a single region of space. As for me being a "null bear", I really am not. the thing is that you hear so an so is making blah amount and before you know it its a huge problem. yeah i agree that incursion needed some tweaking but just happy that they rollin back on the changes they made. honestly i can do the same amount of isk making running Haven/Sanctum in a carrier. Gets rather boring when no one is around to chat with or chase. and the other null bears not willing to run the incursions in their space when it pops up. well ~A~ did but made no money cause no one would listen to them,. oh well Rofl, you can do the same amount of ISK in a carrier in a sanctum in null sec, and you don't see that as an issue?
Now obviously being a renter you don't have to fight for your space, or waste time on CTAs, but you do have to pay for it. And you do not find it odd that the primary source of ISK in this "higher value space" is both the same value, and more boring?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.15 17:40:00 -
[788] - Quote
CTAs are fun got a pvp toon for that. But it is something more then doing things solo. some players like the social interaction others are just down right greedy grubs |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 27 :: [one page] |